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Is Solo Pvp a Sustainable Model ??
kalina311
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
@nitocris83 Said ...
Solo pvp was introduced with the caveat that we needed numbers and data to see if it was a sustainable model. So yeah, it was developed, it's there, and we've released it a few times. But just because something is developed doesn't mean the implementation will be seamless or even speedy. I will admit I haven't seen the metrics on solo pvp performance so if you want to say "I don't get it" because of that, that's fair. But I have reported the positive reception solo pvp has gotten each and every time it's been released and I know, for a fact, that it carried weight and was being taken into consideration.
Ultimately, I don't have what the final decision is or a date on when or if anything will be said, which I know is what really matters. So anything I say just sounds like empty words or platitudes which sucks for you and me alike but I don't think silence is a better alternative either :-/
Solo pvp was introduced with the caveat that we needed numbers and data to see if it was a sustainable model. So yeah, it was developed, it's there, and we've released it a few times. But just because something is developed doesn't mean the implementation will be seamless or even speedy. I will admit I haven't seen the metrics on solo pvp performance so if you want to say "I don't get it" because of that, that's fair. But I have reported the positive reception solo pvp has gotten each and every time it's been released and I know, for a fact, that it carried weight and was being taken into consideration.
Ultimately, I don't have what the final decision is or a date on when or if anything will be said, which I know is what really matters. So anything I say just sounds like empty words or platitudes which sucks for you and me alike but I don't think silence is a better alternative either :-/
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So was it sustainable or not If you look in the pvp forums every post is about solo Q now and players that would normally never agree on all issues are coming together one this
this would be the only mode ever developed in the game that is not seasonal ...that has no schedule and is never up ..it would be the only mode ever that was coined as "semi developed" and you guys never release mods or stuff like that and slowly patch them later ....actually you do ..
what exactly was not seemless about it I dont get it
maybe putting people on friends lists together .... but that happens anyways when people Q at the same time
If you remove the "top-competitive" avenue for PVP, the "casual PVP" dies... You have to have both.
Making solo - Q only perma would kill PVP for good.
Id be 100% onboard with making a solo/Duo Q system as long as there was a premade lobby system as well.
As a side note: I dont think this is THE solution for PVP, its more a "bandaid" to increase QOL short term... but there was a time where PUG groups beat premades constantly.. But this was back before the crazy gear gap we have now between casual vs BIS players. Which is the REAL reason "premades" get blamed, because MOST premades are actually groups of BIS people... The issue isnt that they are a premade, the issue is they are all BIS likely got matched with some team of PUGs who are "casual" pvpers.
and we did not even get that thats the point ./. a lobby for 5 v 5 was also top on the list in that thread
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1216237/what-new-pvp-mode-would-you-like-to-see-in-neverwinter/p1
every idea possible was in that thread ...
the only other dev comment in this forum in a year has been how the dam chicken you turn into they developed on the new weapons set as an Easter eggs is so funny and fantastic in pvp !!
Then I humbly asked the Dev what the % chance to turn into a chicken was .. and what the players stats were in chicken form and again silence no fricken answer !!!
I also dislike solo Que idea because some of the best matches I have had, were against premades as a solo/duo Q player....
The underlying issue in PVP is all the broken gear stuff that is out, creating a massive divide between players.
Look, back in module 0 (vanilla NW, before any modules) this premade vs PUG thing wasnt an issue AT ALL...
Why?
Because there were no mount bonuses, no insignias, no boons, no artifacts, no artifact equipment, no overloads, NONE of that stuff...
You had weapons (that were largely on a level playing field, AND you could BUY CN Ancient Set - go figure...) You had armor (that were also largely all on a level playing field too) - heck I used to do mix n match of BLUE gear on my GF for a long time because it offered better stats for PVP....
You had ranks 1-10 enchants. Most players had 7s or 8s were considered "good" not a ton had 10s, but even the difference was minimal. Everyone had 7 offensive slots (except GF) so the difference between 7x rank 8s and 7x rank 10s was NOTHING...
So everyone was competitive.... You could easily get a PUG group vs a premade and it was a FUN match..
Today?
The premade is full insignias, drains, mount bonuses, etc. etc. while the PUG groups is just "average" blues and stuff....
Thats the REAL issue...
So I see a solo Que as really a bandaid... It wont solve the problem, it will just make the odds of you facing full BIS people smaller - but it WILL still happen.... It doesnt address the fact that 1 BIS player can take on 3 or 4 non BIS players... It doesnt make it "fun" all the sudden... or "fair".
Ill end my rant.. but the solution isnt solo Que. The solution is to fix the "core" issue of PVP: Itemization...
Do that, and you wont need a solo Que.
Another reason I think people have latched onto it is because it seems realistic. The other myriad problems have been screamed about for years with little attention, so an effective bandaid today is better than a cure 3 years from now. Also, I'm not optimistic that they'll do the right things (remove mounts, insignias, boons, SH boons, drains etc.) because big spenders spend big on them. Through my personal biases I might giggle maniacally over it, but people who've invested a lot in those things would be very justifiably outraged.
All that said though, there does need to be a lobby system as well, absolutely. The current Domination Q needs to be eliminated entirely. The options should Solo Q (only solo, not duo) and PVP Lobby.
As for when they'll implement Solo Q, I imagine they are waiting to combine with other pvp-related things as a big package release instead of doing things piecemeal. I said elsewhere I thought it will be done as a "b" mod, which would put it at least 6 months out. However, I had another thought. Iirc, they said they weren't planning on relaunching the NCL until all the classes had been gone over, which might be quite some time yet. Starting NCL again would certainly go along with a big pvp patch. They've done the support classes and are working on the TR right now, but CW, SW, HR, and maybe GWF still need to be done. At this rate, that would probably put a pvp overhaul around Mod 13b, early next year. I hope I'm wrong, but that's my prediction.
If anyone that matters see this, if I'm right, please don't wait that long on a solo Q!! Give us that to tide us over until you get a more thorough pvp rework finished!
Since there are virtually no downsides I think it comes down to resources again. They've run the queues on all platforms now and gathered data. It would surprise me if this didn't become at least the permanent feature of future NCL editions. But this might not come before a wider rework of the PVP system which was labeled a "long term project" recently. So even if they've already made up their mind regarding the solo queue, there has to be dev time to get the changes through.
The other issue is the bug that allows syncing into the solo queue. I hope the hold-up means they want to get rid of the bug before a permanent installment. It's obvious that everything else would be catastrophic and destroy the queue long-term. It would seem that it's a problem "deeper" into the code with how groups are being compiled and teams matched up against each other. So again talking dev time here.
All in good time of course! Real change doesnt happen overnight... certainly not with our devs.
have you any idea how long it takes to sync Q on live SERVER lol apparently not...and when you dont get the team you wanted you wasted an additional 5 pugs/ people times
so wasting 15 people time good solution and still end up getting pugs on false pops ...