[PC] GWF for FBI, almost impossible...

jadermaia

Well as the title says, im a gwf 13,3k item level and its so hard to find a group for FBI, since my guildie and my Alliance theres no people that do FBI, the only option that is left for me is asking in maps for groups like everyone else, im not tank and DC so its really hard, in my case, until now i did FBI Just 3 times..... It is hard for you too guys?

plasticbat

If you don't have friends (from guild, alliance, friend list) to form a party to go, it is hard.
It is hard for any DPS characters. The classes that are easier are DC and GF ... and may be OP.
GWF is relatively easier than HR, CW, SW and TR.

lantern22

yeah its hard to queue on any DPS characters

neirgara

You will always have that problem, as one healer and one tank are a requirement for this Content. Since These classes are not very common, and they need longer to Progress in campaigns due to less damageoutput, they are very rare.

Also it is not unusual, that in PuG groups failing is blamed mostly on the support (even if the GWF runs in advance, pulls every mob he finds and goes down, because he won't walk out of AoEs). Combine that with the usually inaceptable and insulting behavior of random Players, and you know, why many support players will not join random queues.

porchearaintree

I was thinking about starting a rent a tank business with my OP.

jadermaia

> @porchearaintree said:
> I was thinking about starting a rent a tank business with my OP.

And im starting to think in build a cleric, party for the rest of life....

rjc9000

You have my sympathies, as it pisses me off that people won't take my decently geared GWF/CW (3500 ilvl on console/13500 ilvl on PC) for endgame runs, but will gladly take my DC/GF/OP without any strings attached. Or random players who randomly PM my GF/DC/OP, assuming that I'll drop everything to help them. Selfish pricks.

porchearaintree said:

I was thinking about starting a rent a tank business with my OP.

When Svardborg first launched on PC, some DCs made a killing from desperate DPSers wanting support players to join their teams. From poking around the console forums, I heard that is still the case.

dupeks

jadermaia said:

> @porchearaintree said:

> I was thinking about starting a rent a tank business with my OP.



And im starting to think in build a cleric, party for the rest of life....

Haha especially with loadouts, it's not exactly farfetched now

It is much easier to get into random pug content using a tank or a DC (I main a DC). Such is life.

beckylunatic

The solution to lack of support characters used to be that everyone with a DPS main could have at least one or even two competent support alts... in other words, there wasn't formerly such an obvious lack. Many decent players could hop into a tank/heal/buff role at a moment's notice.

But with the piled-on grind on top of grind, and the need to invest into a variety of systems to keep a character performing well, many people have dumped their alts, and only kept up one character. Most of them pick a DPS. All this challenging content is also gated behind at least a month of daily grinding.

I think it would be great if more players with a DPS main were willing to get a support character up to speed as well, but with the state of the game being the way it is, it's not only a community problem, but a design problem.

santralafax

beckylunatic said:

But with the piled-on grind on top of grind, and the need to invest into a variety of systems to keep a character performing well, many people have dumped their alts, and only kept up one character. Most of them pick a DPS. All this challenging content is also gated behind at least a month of daily grinding.

I'm currently taking a GF through SKT now, just so I have such a character. Despite already having 6 mods worth of boons behind him, he still needs current weapon sets.... That's a month whether you go SKT or Mod11.

mightyeriksson

The thought of doing SKT & SOMI on my DC is not very appealing, sure I could bother guildies for help, but that's not always going to work out.

If I gear it for full-on DPS it might just take me 2-3 times as long to do the dailies as it does my HR/GWF/CW, and there's just not enough hours in the day for me to bother with that.

The DC would easily perform very well in FBI/MSVA, but I really don't have it in me to grind that HAMSTER again, and at half the speed

It would be nice if they made it FBI/MSVA account-wide unlocks, just like MDemo, and removed the Everfrost gate, mostly since you don't really need it, and if you need it, you're probably already using it.

grimah

When I'm random Pugging (I'm a tank) I avoid taking GWFs because 9/10 of them do not listen and get too close to the turtle which will make the boss add the slam attack into it's random rotation, which can cause major problems with random pug groups/low dps ones so with each GWF I take the higher the chance of failure. I end up just choosing range dps to avoid the headaches, though I do group with GWFs if they are on my friendlist.

santralafax

grimah said:

When I'm random Pugging (I'm a tank) I avoid taking GWFs because 9/10 of them do not listen and get too close to the turtle which will make the boss add the slam attack into it's random rotation, which can cause major problems with random pug groups/low dps ones so with each GWF I take the higher the chance of failure. I end up just choosing range dps to avoid the headaches, though I do group with GWFs if they are on my friendlist.

But @Grimah, I somehow have to hit it with a *SWORD*!!!

grimah

santralafax said:

grimah said:

When I'm random Pugging (I'm a tank) I avoid taking GWFs because 9/10 of them do not listen and get too close to the turtle which will make the boss add the slam attack into it's random rotation, which can cause major problems with random pug groups/low dps ones so with each GWF I take the higher the chance of failure. I end up just choosing range dps to avoid the headaches, though I do group with GWFs if they are on my friendlist.

But @Grimah, I somehow have to hit it with a *SWORD*!!!

you can easily do it by hittings it legs and staying out of the inner zone, a task that seems hard to grasp by most gwfs so I gave up inviting them.

dread4moor

@grimah
"When I'm random Pugging (I'm a tank) I avoid taking GWFs because 9/10 of them do not listen... though I do group with GWFs if they are on my friendlist."
This.
I hate to generalize. There are good and bad players of all classes.
But... Yeah. This.
3 1/2 yr Main tank and 1st alt DC here.
OP, Imagine this scene:
You are an experienced tank or DC, very good at FBI. You agree to PuG with a stranger GWF.
As you go up the hill you are following the strategy, doing your job as a GF or DC, holding aggro/mitigating damage/buffing.
Things are going great.
Then it happens:
"MOOOAARR!"
The PuG GWF charges up the hill, deaf to pleas of "Wait" and ignoring every AoE, aggroing every giant and polar bear in sight.
Death Death Death "Help" "Help" "Help" "Ayuda" "Ayuda" "Ayuda" Wipe Wipe Wipe
A cluster-HAMSTER. A dumpster fire.
And then... here's the best part... wait for the GWF's punchline...
"WTF? This tank/DC sucks! Do your job!"
[GROAN]
My support toons have nearly 100% FBI success when playing with trusted friends.
I hardly every fail FBI anymore. But when I do it is always bc of a deaf and red-colorblind GWF.

TLDR
Support class usually gets the blame when FBI fails, their fault or no, especially with unknown GWFs.
Just not worth the time, pain and suffering.
OP, put yourself in my shoes. What would you do?

lantern22

beckylunatic said:

The solution to lack of support characters used to be that everyone with a DPS main could have at least one or even two competent support alts... in other words, there wasn't formerly such an obvious lack. Many decent players could hop into a tank/heal/buff role at a moment's notice.

But with the piled-on grind on top of grind, and the need to invest into a variety of systems to keep a character performing well, many people have dumped their alts, and only kept up one character. Most of them pick a DPS. All this challenging content is also gated behind at least a month of daily grinding.

I think it would be great if more players with a DPS main were willing to get a support character up to speed as well, but with the state of the game being the way it is, it's not only a community problem, but a design problem.

I agree.

I used to main a DPS (CW) and a Tank (GF). But because it was too hard to get into groups with the DPS I ditched that and resurrected a DC. So now I main a DC and GF and getting into groups is not longer a problem (not including the Mod 3 days when ppl would do pirate king runs with 5 CWs).

Now, with loadouts, ppl can now play a GF tank but also have a DPS build to help with getting through dailies - hopefully that will result in an increase of tanks which will help address part of that issue. I guess the same applies to DCs as well.

Fingers crossed but maybe a balancing out of the numbers for the various role types is just around the corner and DPS ppl can get groups more easily

jadermaia

lantern22 said:

beckylunatic said:

The solution to lack of support characters used to be that everyone with a DPS main could have at least one or even two competent support alts... in other words, there wasn't formerly such an obvious lack. Many decent players could hop into a tank/heal/buff role at a moment's notice.

But with the piled-on grind on top of grind, and the need to invest into a variety of systems to keep a character performing well, many people have dumped their alts, and only kept up one character. Most of them pick a DPS. All this challenging content is also gated behind at least a month of daily grinding.

I think it would be great if more players with a DPS main were willing to get a support character up to speed as well, but with the state of the game being the way it is, it's not only a community problem, but a design problem.

I agree.

I used to main a DPS (CW) and a Tank (GF). But because it was too hard to get into groups with the DPS I ditched that and resurrected a DC. So now I main a DC and GF and getting into groups is not longer a problem (not including the Mod 3 days when ppl would do pirate king runs with 5 CWs).

Now, with loadouts, ppl can now play a GF tank but also have a DPS build to help with getting through dailies - hopefully that will result in an increase of tanks which will help address part of that issue. I guess the same applies to DCs as well.

Fingers crossed but maybe a balancing out of the numbers for the various role types is just around the corner and DPS ppl can get groups more easily

I hope so, i have a GF alt too and sometimes i have to queue with him instead of my gwf...

spideymt

The reason you cant find groups easy as a GWF very simple:

We got too much DPS chars in neverwinter and we got way too much players with DPS chars thinking how "great" they are but in fact they are not.
Regulary, GWFs dealing the most damage in FBI. But FBI needs some good movement from GWFs and some good "reads" ( where is the tank? Where is the DC? Where is the shild? etc...etc.). Most GWFs dont have such "read" ability. Most GWFs are just dumb damage pushers and the only thing they care is the paingiver. So they pull everything. They dont wanna avoid any red cricles/aoes. Just pure and dumb dps pushing. This is so funny, cuzz the fastest runs you can make in FBI/MSPA is with an good GWF ( good!!! GWF) when he know what teamplay means.
Try to build a good FL. Try to push your ally and your guildmembers to run with you. Dont give up on a class you love to play just because its hard for you to find a group!

P.S.:
Just let you know: My mainchar is a 15,6k GWF. So i know when a GWF suxx in a dungeon or if he plays good. I saw so many GWFs running and pulling everything and i also saw so many dead GWFs claiming :"Whats worng with the DC? Where is the tank??"
"Best" GWF i ever saw was in EToS. He ran from group to group and he died in almost every group. I was in that dungeon with my GF alt and my guild. He took the last free spot. So we decided to stay and wait to see whats happen when he realizes no one will join his speed. I think he left the dungeon after his 8th death ^^ . Another GWF joined and we did a smooth and funny run.

mamalion1234

spideymt said:

The reason you cant find groups easy as a GWF very simple:

We got too much DPS chars in neverwinter and we got way too much players with DPS chars thinking how "great" they are but in fact they are not.
Regulary, GWFs dealing the most damage in FBI. But FBI needs some good movement from GWFs and some good "reads" ( where is the tank? Where is the DC? Where is the shild? etc...etc.). Most GWFs dont have such "read" ability. Most GWFs are just dumb damage pushers and the only thing they care is the paingiver. So they pull everything. They dont wanna avoid any red cricles/aoes. Just pure and dumb dps pushing. This is so funny, cuzz the fastest runs you can make in FBI/MSPA is with an good GWF ( good!!! GWF) when he know what teamplay means.
Try to build a good FL. Try to push your ally and your guildmembers to run with you. Dont give up on a class you love to play just because its hard for you to find a group!

P.S.:
Just let you know: My mainchar is a 15,6k GWF. So i know when a GWF suxx in a dungeon or if he plays good. I saw so many GWFs running and pulling everything and i also saw so many dead GWFs claiming :"Whats worng with the DC? Where is the tank??"
"Best" GWF i ever saw was in EToS. He ran from group to group and he died in almost every group. I was in that dungeon with my GF alt and my guild. He took the last free spot. So we decided to stay and wait to see whats happen when he realizes no one will join his speed. I think he left the dungeon after his 8th death ^^ . Another GWF joined and we did a smooth and funny run.

THAT is 50-50 i dont like that even in top parties unless if tank can handle it and healer in good day.
IN most cases at least in the runs i did as gwf the tanks use to pull everything.

dread4moor

mamalion1234 said:

spideymt said:

The reason you cant find groups easy as a GWF very simple:

We got too much DPS chars in neverwinter and we got way too much players with DPS chars thinking how "great" they are but in fact they are not.
Regulary, GWFs dealing the most damage in FBI. But FBI needs some good movement from GWFs and some good "reads" ( where is the tank? Where is the DC? Where is the shild? etc...etc.). Most GWFs dont have such "read" ability. Most GWFs are just dumb damage pushers and the only thing they care is the paingiver. So they pull everything. They dont wanna avoid any red cricles/aoes. Just pure and dumb dps pushing. This is so funny, cuzz the fastest runs you can make in FBI/MSPA is with an good GWF ( good!!! GWF) when he know what teamplay means.
Try to build a good FL. Try to push your ally and your guildmembers to run with you. Dont give up on a class you love to play just because its hard for you to find a group!

P.S.:
Just let you know: My mainchar is a 15,6k GWF. So i know when a GWF suxx in a dungeon or if he plays good. I saw so many GWFs running and pulling everything and i also saw so many dead GWFs claiming :"Whats worng with the DC? Where is the tank??"
"Best" GWF i ever saw was in EToS. He ran from group to group and he died in almost every group. I was in that dungeon with my GF alt and my guild. He took the last free spot. So we decided to stay and wait to see whats happen when he realizes no one will join his speed. I think he left the dungeon after his 8th death ^^ . Another GWF joined and we did a smooth and funny run.

THAT is 50-50 i dont like that even in top parties unless if tank can handle it and healer in good day.
IN most cases at least in the runs i did as gwf the tanks use to pull everything.

I respect your opinion. My experience has been same as @kemi1984 .
GWF, not GF, have a major motivation to engage early and often:
Paingiver.
The GF goal is Zero party deaths... almost the opposite of Paingiver regarding early, reckless engagement.
No (sane) GF is striving for Paingiver in FBI.
We are the first to be blamed if the party gets overwhelmed.
Impossible to calculate, but IMO their is NOT equal 50/50 percent overaggro between GF/GWF.

EDIT: I meant @spideymt , not kemi. I just commented on a kemi post,, switched names.

jadermaia

> @spideymt said:
> The reason you cant find groups easy as a GWF very simple:
>
> We got too much DPS chars in neverwinter and we got way too much players with DPS chars thinking how "great" they are but in fact they are not.
> Regulary, GWFs dealing the most damage in FBI. But FBI needs some good movement from GWFs and some good "reads" ( where is the tank? Where is the DC? Where is the shild? etc...etc.). Most GWFs dont have such "read" ability. Most GWFs are just dumb damage pushers and the only thing they care is the paingiver. So they pull everything. They dont wanna avoid any red cricles/aoes. Just pure and dumb dps pushing. This is so funny, cuzz the fastest runs you can make in FBI/MSPA is with an good GWF ( good!!! GWF) when he know what teamplay means.
> Try to build a good FL. Try to push your ally and your guildmembers to run with you. Dont give up on a class you love to play just because its hard for you to find a group!
>
> P.S.:
> Just let you know: My mainchar is a 15,6k GWF. So i know when a GWF suxx in a dungeon or if he plays good. I saw so many GWFs running and pulling everything and i also saw so many dead GWFs claiming :"Whats worng with the DC? Where is the tank??"
> "Best" GWF i ever saw was in EToS. He ran from group to group and he died in almost every group. I was in that dungeon with my GF alt and my guild. He took the last free spot. So we decided to stay and wait to see whats happen when he realizes no one will join his speed. I think he left the dungeon after his 8th death ^^ . Another GWF joined and we did a smooth and funny run.

In this case so i can say im a good gwf, i dont blame others IF i make a mistake, i play gwf since beta in 2013 It was always my main, but since gwf populatin grow so fast we pay the price for the others behaviors, we are not tank and i know some GWF always run and agroo and keeping saying stupid things for a tank and even a DC, as ppl say its one good gwf in ten of them.

lazaroth666

I find the title of the topic kind of sensationalist. It is not difficult just for a GWF, it is for every damage dealer class and after certain ilvl, any of them will do the job. Show that you are good, make friends and people will call you. Generally speaking, if you are just that kind of player that right after finishing the run start typing "ty ty" or "ty for the run", don't expect too much. Engage the other players, talk to them and create a net of people that will be glad to run with you at any moment. Don't forget that it is easier to create a group rather than waiting to be called for a run.

spideymt

lazaroth666 said:

Don't forget that it is easier to create a group rather than waiting to be called for a run.

/sign

dread4moor

> @spideymt said:
> Don't forget that it is easier to create a group rather than waiting to be called for a run.
>
> /sign

/nod

knightfall

I am on PS4 with a 4.2k DC and a 3.4k OP Tank. I generally do not like running (especially FBI) with GWF's unless they are on my friends list. Why? Because of all the DPSes classes, GWF's seem to be the most likely to be piloted by an impatient and inconsiderate player. I also think the design of the class reinforces bad habits, which doesn't help. While I am not saying that all GWF's are like this, I've encountered enough that it sometimes affects who I invite and/or join.

kieranmtorn

GWF's are still tied to the duration of the various stacking effect's, so unfortunately have incentive to be aggressive.

spideymt

I rather jump with a big ROOOAHHR in a grp of trash than standing miles away and make some funny moves with my hands to cast . Sry...but a GWF can only do damage if he stays close to trash/bosses. We cant can throw perma hidden dagers..
But..... i dont jump in front of a tank. Even if i can like all dungeons except FBI. I need the tank as combatadvantage giver and as buffer

ivansinkovic1

porchearaintree said:

I was thinking about starting a rent a tank business with my OP.

Brilliant! Can I join you with my DC?

mamalion1234

Giants have slow attacks so my suggestion is if the tank cant handle but want to do the pull at least to take away the giants while the rest killing the bears and small mobs. Because three days now from gwf point of view when this pull happening i see around me all giants and the tank for some reason dont taunt them while i try to kill the dangerous small mobs-bears.
AND i am using my mobility to avoid the attacks from mobs + some defences and dps them i cant the same time avoid and the red circles.

Great weapon fighter used to run on mobs when he knows that he overgear the dungeon and he has minimal chance to get killed. THAT is not happening in fbi.

AND the pull generally i dislike it in fbi put all the team under pressure.

kemi1984

Tanks who know which mobs are more dangerous, and which one need to be taken down asap do focus on Bears.

1st part of the dungeon is the most challenging, especially for a tank that has to prioritize and try to keep as much hate on him as possible.

It all depends on the group of course. But generally I agree, Bears first and Giants I can kite around away from the team.

At least there IS a instance where we can die, where we can test our skills and where we need to work to make the run go smooth.
We didn't have this thing for a bit so let's all be happy and rainbow unicorns lol.

merhunesdagon1

Moral of the story: dont be a dumb GWF charging head on, when u have support to keep you alive. and if you die, dont blame everyone else cuz u suck. This why ppl ask for the ranged DPSers more often than up close and personal big sword swinging dummy, and why shouldn't they? HR and any range dps at BIS level does better than GWF anyhow.