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DPS GF viable?
kasyee
Member Posts: 45 Arc User
Hello. I'm a pretty new player. I leveled DC up to lvl 70. I enjoy my class, but I wanted to play a melee dmg dealer too, to not ger bored with ranged support.
I tried TR up to level 20. Half of his skills seemed pretty buggy to me. He did an attack animation, but no damage was dealt etc. I didn't like how glitchy and buggy it was.
I tried GWF too -> it wasn't bad, but I don't really enjoy having 1 big weapon, I don't like this style and his moveset.
So then came time to try GF. I instantly fell in love with his moveset animations. I really enjoy most of his skills I know so far. (Love the Lunge and basic attack the most though).
But I don't really feel like I want to build another support class.
Will GF be viable with righ gear as dmg dealer and be able to compete with strikers? I read some DPS builds that claim GF can outdps other classes if played right just like any striker class, but these were kinda outdated informations (mod 5, mod 8 and mod 10 if I recall correctly).
So is it possible, or playing anything other than tank GF will get me nowhere and I should just learn to like the glitchy TR or meh GWF movesets if I want melee dps?
I tried TR up to level 20. Half of his skills seemed pretty buggy to me. He did an attack animation, but no damage was dealt etc. I didn't like how glitchy and buggy it was.
I tried GWF too -> it wasn't bad, but I don't really enjoy having 1 big weapon, I don't like this style and his moveset.
So then came time to try GF. I instantly fell in love with his moveset animations. I really enjoy most of his skills I know so far. (Love the Lunge and basic attack the most though).
But I don't really feel like I want to build another support class.
Will GF be viable with righ gear as dmg dealer and be able to compete with strikers? I read some DPS builds that claim GF can outdps other classes if played right just like any striker class, but these were kinda outdated informations (mod 5, mod 8 and mod 10 if I recall correctly).
So is it possible, or playing anything other than tank GF will get me nowhere and I should just learn to like the glitchy TR or meh GWF movesets if I want melee dps?
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Comments
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Given how we've had a *certain* subset of people complaining about how DPS GFs are broken, that should tell you everything you need to know.
...
Yeah, I can't resist the snark bait.
---
To answer the question: Sort of.
The DPS GF is also a risky and difficult class to learn. All classes have this level of skill curve, but GF has a very ... unusual skill curve in that you deal your best damage when you're getting hit. This requires good timing and knowledge of how to tank as a GF if you want to make the most of the GF's DPS. In addition, if you're occupying the tank slot of the team, you need to work 3x as hard as a pure tank GF to deal good DPS and survive hits at the same time.
The DPS GF also requires a lot of resources to perform. You don't get any extra sources of Crit like the TR's Stealth or CW's Eye of the Storm. You will be squishy unless you commit resources to defense (if you're a glass cannon DPS GF, it's extremely hard to get damage stacks, if you're a GF who commits everything to defensive play, you usually have awful DPS) or play in a fully defensive playstyle, which defeats the point of a DPS GF.
If you're willing to accept these limitations, you can provide good damage output, survive against bosses/mobs, and buff your team. I will warn you that, in most top-tier teams, your DPS output will slightly lag behind the main DPS player. However, it is totally possible to be a competitive top tier damage dealer, tank, and buffer if you play your GF smart, although I can think of only one GF which can do this.
This is kind of a complex thing to explain in a few words, and I was kind of in a rush to type this due to needing to rush to class before I wrote this. If you need further explanation, you can shoot me a mail, or alternatively, @kacezet if you need further explanation or don't trust me.
You are the tank... you will not really have the option... to just DPS... and not tank.
When people say DPS GF... they are talking about a GF Tank.. that can do DPS while tanking...
Since GF's have threat modifiers, basically the better you are at DPS.. the more threat you will generate. So to do the DPS part well... you will end up having to do the tanking part too...
To do this effectively... you need very very good gear. (At least I think to get to where you are envisioning).
Also being a new player... there is something you need to know about Neverwinter.
Good gear... generally is not about running the right dungeons.. and acquiring the right gear...
80% of your power as a player comes from 3 things... with mount and mount bonuses providing a poor ROI contribution as #4.
- Fully Refined and best available Weapon. (Weapon damage is the single biggest boost to damage)
- How well refined are your Artifacts (Mythical), Artifact Gear (Legendary), Enchantments (Radiant, Azure, Etc..), and Weapon / Armor Enchantments (Perfect or better in most cases)
- Companions, Companion Gear, & Bonding Stones (Rank 12 for 300% of your companion's stats with gear) for your Actively Summoned Companion
- Mount Bonuses & Insignias
10% is having BIS Armor from Dungeons, good stat distribution, and proper use of feat / powers.10% is knowing how to play your character and what powers to use at the right time.. etc... knowing content.
Not to undermine player skill and knowing content, but a player who has both... but is only at the minimum gear requirements... is still going to generally get blown away by a well equipped player that has lesser skill and experience.
That all said... and if you can accept this is an exceptionally expensive path... that you are not worried about traveling.... DPS GF (aka Conqueror Path GF) is extremely rewarding to play and very fun.
I play one and like to think I do significant DPS while also performing the tanking part... pretty decently. I have not 100% committed myself to DPS... as I feel like I should just be playing a GWF at that point...
That said, in a all BiS group I will be well behind a well played GWF/HR/CW... I can often be competitive with a well played SW/TR... and I'm well above a Buff/DeBuff support character.
Example using made up easy #'s....
GWF/HR/CW = #1 DPS @ 100 million damage
Conqueror GF (Me) / TR / SW = #2 or 3 DPS @ 70-80 million damage
Buff / Debuff / Healers = #4 or 5 DPS @ 10-20 million damage
I also think many of the comments you saw before... was from the pre-nerf AA era... when you didn't have to worry about damage as much (since AA made you immune to a lot of it)... and as a result you could run Knight's Challenge 100% which greatly increased your damage. (This is the scenario... where a GF could be in that top tier DPS range with GWF/HR/CW's)
SO, most groups would still be thrilled to have their tank be able to FIRST tank the content effectively (no tissue paper tanks) and still make a major contribution to speeding up the dungeon run via DPS....
If you want to take this road.. I would suggest first going more traditional tank (Tactician) and then have a project Conqueror layout. Using your Conqueror for solo daily quest grinding at first... then as your gear get better (say when you hit 3000ish range)... you tank T2 / T1 dungeons (ETOS, ECC, etc...) in your DPS Conqueror Layout.... when you get to 3500-4000 range.. then you could likely start to consider tanking FBI / MSVA level content as Conqueror.
The beauty of Layout's now... is that if want to try harder content at lower ilvl's... then you can always just switch back to your more traditional tanking layout, if it is not going so well....
Hope that helps provide some perspective and hopefully a realistic expectation.
Thanks.
- Forge (GF)
- Apocalypse - (DC)
- Sadus (OP)
- Fireball (GWF)
- Ixian (CW)
Thank you Loadouts for allowing my toons to be all the things... they ever wanted to be....
I'll try though because I like his animations very much and I like challenges.
Thank you for detailed answers, I never expected so many useful informations on forums
Seriously, though, OP, just don't. Please.
Make a CW or GWF for DPS.
If you are new to the Game do not try to be a DPS GF.
As a new guy you will be mediocre at both DPS and tanking (your most important job).
Any conqueror Loadout will make solo content easy.
But you must master tanking first.
You will irritate your party members who expect you to tank and give fodder to the GF nerf trolls who lurk and infest the guard barracks.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
GWF received nerf after nerf,more recent the removal of temp hp.While GF got buff after buff.
As someone else posted,Barracks is the only sub forum where all people are happy and cheering.
This is the wrong doing of the devs,trying to appeal to the vicious Gf crowd.
GF needs damage decrease,as a class,defense decrease,and stamina decrease.
This is the only way GF to stop overshadowing 2 classes in NW,GWF and OP.
Should I prepare the [Greater Box of Popcorn] to go with the [Greater Box of Butthurt]?
We already have pally who wants to be a dedicated tank. But well I decided I'll try both DPS HR and DPS GF and see what I like more.
Also -> with loadouts I can have 2 builds in one in case the dps version doesnt work out
Thanks for help everyone!
"In an end-game party I don't see a reason to be Tactician or Protector spec to be honest. Do I miss something?"
So, if your party needs maximal DPS buff you would choose a Conqueror Loadout instead of a tactician? K.
If your squish HDPS aggro-stealing party is facing a one-hit boss you would choose Conqueror loadout instead of a Protector? K.
Conqueror is best at one thing: high personal DPS.
They are the least tanky and the least Buffy GF. So if your party badly needs maximal tankiness or maximal buffing, why would you use a loadout inferior in those?
But now we have loadouts. We can bring all three into a dungeon.
But instead you plan to use...
Loadout 1: Solo/Trash mobs
SM Conqueror
Loadout 2:Boss fight/HDPSsquishyparty
... another SM Conqueror?
K. But probably not optimal use of the loadouts.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
. . . .snip
"I have never had any problems tanking any boss as conq GF"
I didn't say Conqs couldn't tank bosses.
I said Conqs are not the BEST GF for tanking bosses.
You said there was never a reason to use Tact or Protector.
I respectfully disagreed and gave examples when switching loadout to Tact or Protector would (in general) be better then Conq, especially for an undergeared, inexperienced player (the OP).
You are an experienced NW Conq expert. I respect that. Play how you like.
If the new guy wants to go FULL DPS Conq on ALL his loadouts, more power to him.
But he asked for opinions. That's one opinion.
@kasyee
You only play with your friends? That is actually awesome. Friends and guild it's will be more supportive and forgiving then PUGs. Good luck.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
"High amount of life steal"
"maintaining agro"
"trans life drinker"!!!
"40% [lifesteal]"
"guild LS boon."
The OP has none of these and no experience.
This thread is not about experienced geared Conqs.
New, low gear, inexperienced Conqs should be cautioned against having pure HDPS loadouts.
If you are not new, low gear or inexperienced: disregard my comments.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Just yesterday I was on chat listening to a group of my friends getting mauled in a MSVA run because their tank was a Con GF built for personal DPS and kept getting mutilated by the boss (they were only running one tank in order to get an extra DC); after hearing them fail a second time I offered to join them with my buffing tank. They dropped the DPS tank, pulled me in and we blasted through the skirmish with a banner run. My tank is only 3205 IL, just barely MSVA capable, but I don't die and I buff my whole party for smooth runs no matter the content or party IL.
Main: Nidara Devilspawn- Ranger
Alt: Aradin Coldblood- Fighter
Alt: Lucrezia Vileborn- Warlock
Since you're a GF, I've rarely seen GFs targeted by hypothermia (the arrows surrounding you and then someone explodes ala FBI). I think you are referring to Duumverate (Stovald says "You will die alone", you get frozen, red arrows appear over your head, and then Storvald hits you. If it actually is Hypothermia, please let me know).
The intended solution to Duumverate is to stand next to your other tank, or have a bunch of other non squishy people (GWFs and maybe DCs with mitigation powers) stand next to you. This is because Duumverate damage is split between (x) amount of people who have red arrows on them.
Also, move Storvald out of the icy AoE patches. If your teammates aren't bright and are leaving the icy AoEs under Storvald, Storvald's damage and defenses get powered up by the icy AoE, which makes it near impossible to survive hit Duumverate unless you're a Paladin with millions of TempHP.
"how can you survive from Hypothermia attack? (red arrows). "
Hypothermia damage is divided equally among any characters within a short AoE around the target.
If you are alone, it is almost certain death regardless of your DR, HP or deflect.
Move into the middle of the largest pack of teammates you can find and raise your shield.
Your teammates have to help you on this by moving toward you, especially if you are holding the boss aggro and cannot move.
If you have feated KV you will not kill them. Half that damage will be erased.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
I'm not sure if you forgot to list it, but all those stats won't save you without EF resist. It's a must have in FBI/mSVA, get at least 30%.
I've tried already to equipe Guarded Assault, but no result. My everfrost resist 46%.
It has no effect on the legitimacy of the build.
I have a Legit DPS GF... but Forge also had a 4300ish ilvl (I logged in this morning and now he has a 15863 Total Item Level??? Guess I need to read some patch notes...)
Even then... I don't have full BiS, (I keep getting the wrong helm.... in FBI...) but I'm close. I also have been playing since Beta.. and have had YEARS to accumulate resources.
I would suggest to anyone... that a DPS GF.... should be a Daily Quest Solo / Project Layout.... if you don't have the gear to support it... you are just asking to get on people's ignore lists... IF you have a supportive and friendly guild... try it out... but have a primary Tanking Layout FIRST... that you can switch to if you can't handle the content as Conqueror.
- Forge (GF)
- Apocalypse - (DC)
- Sadus (OP)
- Fireball (GWF)
- Ixian (CW)
Thank you Loadouts for allowing my toons to be all the things... they ever wanted to be....
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I personally do not have more than 50k power peak, but I'm chasing 100 crit chance so a lot of extra power went into crit chance via Azures. Of course I'm talking about solo play not taking any external buff sources into consideration.
What do you guys think about Bloodlord's Visage vs Jarl's Gaze ?
Obviously former is better while in EF zones, but I find the Visage thingy stacking pretty nice all around (ofc the view is disabled, it's terrible :P).
I totally forgot about Reckless Attacker crit chance so I probably went over the board with Azures. Need to try it out in a combat situation.
Had quite a battle to use Lightning or Vorpal, finally Lightning was sold so I'm stuck with the flashy thing :P
As for the active mount bonus, I do have an easy access to +2k power mount but after getting the Tensers...it's really hard to give up on 4k recovery.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
- Bloodlord is good for trash (since you have lots of mobs dying frequently)... not good for boss fights... since you don't have enough stuff dying generally to get a power buff. (some of the T2's ETOS, ECC.. etc... but those are the exceptions)
- Jarl's Gaze - This is the better of the two, but I think it a better item for an AA DC or DPS class with a Attribute based Crit (basically every class except GF)... it also has low hit points. That said... if you are rocking a lot of Everfrost resistance 40%+ and already have a good HP pool 150k+ then I'd say you can get away with it.
I'd use the 4k Recovery. Especially since GF gear tends not to have much of it.- Forge (GF)
- Apocalypse - (DC)
- Sadus (OP)
- Fireball (GWF)
- Ixian (CW)
Thank you Loadouts for allowing my toons to be all the things... they ever wanted to be....
Yeah and 4k Recovery is nothing to sneeze at, especially if without it I have...500
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"