I just re-uploaded the document, complete with recalculated graphs and including Lightning on AoE fights.
Originally, I was going to Yukkuri shiteitte ne!!! take it easy, but I heard console users have a 2x RP weekend, so I worked to get the graphs and information back up as fast as I could with as much accuracy as I could.
You HRs can stop bugging me now (seriously, wtf, I've had like 5 people asking me for document access).
Thanks @rjc9000, you and other pc players don't get enough credit.
Guild: Ruthless Character: Vendetta
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited May 2017
@rjc9000 I believe it is spelt careful attack not careful at lag, no need to give @jaegernl any nefarious dispositions with regards to the lag monster, it is bad enough on the servers as it currently is without him having any motivations.
@rjc9000 I believe it is spelt careful attack not careful at lag, no need to give @jaegernl any nefarious dispositions with regards to the lag monster, it is bad enough on the servers as it currently is without him having any motivations.
All according to plan!
Just like how you had Sharp of the Endless Avalanche
> @rayrdan said: > Nice work. Glad to see my gut feeling about Fey being BiS is backed by actual numbers. :D > > if only it wasnt buggy when used by hrs i would agree
It's still BiS for Combat HR's. Even with it not working on PG, it's still noticeably better for me, though my build might be different than the standard Combat-HR build.
> Nice work. Glad to see my gut feeling about Fey being BiS is backed by actual numbers.
>
> if only it wasnt buggy when used by hrs i would agree
It's still BiS for Combat HR's. Even with it not working on PG, it's still noticeably better for me, though my build might be different than the standard Combat-HR build.
Sorry, ^^ that was me, got logged into a different account for some reason.
i guess you dont use thorn ward and cordon of arrows
Is Cordon of Arrows noteworthy enough in HR DPS that it needs to be tested?
(I am a total HR n00b, so I wouldn't know this)
___
Hmm... while I'm here, I wanted to ask you guys something.
Should I include ACT screenshots of HR DPS while using a Vorpal in the comparisons?
Some abilities are worth boosting their DPS more than others; for example, Trapper HRs should prioritize Thorned Roots damage rather than, say, Longstrider Shot damage.
I was wondering if it was worth it to include HR DPS with a Vorpal as a "base" comparison from random runs, since it would help uneducated HR n00bs like me know which abilities in which to prioritize DPS boosts from.
Yep, I just switched from t.vorp to t.fey, haven't seen a noticible drop in Pve damage, still have 152% critsev, and am a lot tanker in PvP.
Combat pf crit build.
Good work everyone.
i guess you dont use thorn ward and cordon of arrows
I use thornward quite a bit, but only to suck up serpent ranged stacks. Lowest CD as well makes it pretty much the only combat choice for a third encounter.
As a combat HR that uses clear the ground, I should be getting a lightning enchantment then. I wonder how the lightning interacts with blade storm?
I was hoping that the CD reduction would be significant (as in proc on flurry hits).
Im not real sure how blade storm works even by itself. Like, if I CtG and hit 4 mobs, is that 4 seperate chances to proc Blade Storm? I presume it is, so that if you are swinging at 4 mobs, it will proc once per swing, on average.
There was a thread about balance saying that 'plant growth' is magic, technically not melee damage with your blades, so Im guessing that lightning will NOT proc blade storm.
However whats not clear is if bladestorm has a chance to proc lightning, and if it does, would it be once per bladestorm proc or once per target in the bladestorm AoE?
I just did a simple test with 1 dummy and then 3 at once. I was getting blade storm to proc on average every 2 swings against 1 dummy? weird. I expected every 4 swings obviously. The only way I can account for that is if the description is wrong and the artifact off hand power ads 25% to the chance to proc, rather than the damage.
Then against 3 dummys i could see it frequently proccing multiple times and hardly ever didnt proc at least once.
So am I missing something? Blade storm seems AWESOME if you have the artifact off hand power for it (+25% damage) Thats 45% of the attack damage in an area around you...Seems waaaay better than twin blade storm which doesnt even come into effect until you are hitting 3 targets, and then you get a measly flat 16%.
Now if that blade storm procs lightning each time it damages a single target, we are off to the races....
I presume the bladestorm AoE is like the flurry - some sort of bonus damage that doesnt proc lightning, but you cant be sure until you test. I gotta get my hands on a lightning enchantment to play around with.
Does anybody have any comment on the artifact augmented Bladestorm >>>>>> arftifact augmented Twin Blade Storm? Or am I reading it wrong?
augments: "Blade Storm: The damage dealt by Blade Storm is increased by 25%. Twin-Blade Storm: Twin-Blade Storm now increases your Damage by an additional 2% when damaging more than two enemies with an attack."
Does the blade storm augment take the AoE damage to 45% (from 20%) or does it increase the 20% by 25%, meaning it increases it to 25%? Its ambiguously worded.
If the former, it absolutely rocks, being good for +11% (on average) per mob you hit with a single swing. i.e. if you are hitting 3 mobs with a swing, it will deliver on average +33% DPS
If the latter, the benefit is roughly half that, which is still better than TBS at every point (even at 3 mobs per swing TBS gives 18% and BS gives on average 18.75% and increases with every mob)
On thinking about it, I think its probably just taking the blade storm damage from 20% to 25%. Still nice, as on average it performs similarly to scything blades.
Does anybody have any comment on the artifact augmented Bladestorm >>>>>> arftifact augmented Twin Blade Storm? Or am I reading it wrong?
augments: "Blade Storm: The damage dealt by Blade Storm is increased by 25%. Twin-Blade Storm: Twin-Blade Storm now increases your Damage by an additional 2% when damaging more than two enemies with an attack."
Does the blade storm augment take the AoE damage to 45% (from 20%) or does it increase the 20% by 25%, meaning it increases it to 25%? Its ambiguously worded.
Unfortunately, both artifact feature augments are wayyyyyyy worse than the AotP feature augment, which then in turn basically means we have to keep AotP slotted instead of using BS+TBS.
You could feature swap between TBS and AoTP for mobs/bosses. I sometimes swap AotP for Lone Wolf on mobs to help mitigate the fact that I inevitably end up tanking. TBS would escalate, rather than mitigate that problem for me.
FWIW, I think even at just 25%, Blade Storm outperforms TBS, giving on average 6.25% damage per mob. But I have gone completely off it because the numbers thrown up on the screen indicate it never does anything except 10% [PS4]
AotP seems like a no brainer now - a straight 15%, plus 2% per ally, plus there is drow hunting techniques that gives another 10% for combat advantage?
Oh but wait, there is that ambiguous wording again - "CA damage is increased by 10%..." Is that +10% or x10%? Now that I think about it, its probably the latter - taking you from 15% -> 16.5%
But I guess theoretically, you can place yourself to get combat advantage without using a class feature - would the artifact augment still work in that situation? probably not.
Is Cordon of Arrows noteworthy enough in HR DPS that it needs to be tested?
First of all, many many thanks for your work!!
For a Trapper in PVE the melee version of Cordon of Arrows, Plant Growth, is a large source of DPS. Normally for me it is in the same range of Thorned Roots in dungeons (together they are roughly 70% with roots 2-3% higher than Plant Growth). In the first phase in MSVA Plant Growth usually outperforms roots for me (all the cooldown reductions you get there enable PG spamming while you can't stack roots on a target).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
1
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I don't even mess with cordon while archery. Sometimes it just doesn't crit even in their face.
Comments
Originally, I was going to
Yukkuri shiteitte ne!!!take it easy, but I heard console users have a 2x RP weekend, so I worked to get the graphs and information back up as fast as I could with as much accuracy as I could.You HRs can stop bugging me now (seriously, wtf, I've had like 5 people asking me for document access).
Character: Vendetta
Also, where are your Axis Labels? Q_Q
Just like how you had Sharp of the Endless AvalancheYou know me extremely well: I'm more than willing to do a lot of hard work, only to learn that there's an easy solution nearby.I suppose doing incredibly stupid things during the learning process is because I'm a GF guy at heart, huh?Character: Vendetta
> Nice work. Glad to see my gut feeling about Fey being BiS is backed by actual numbers. :D
>
> if only it wasnt buggy when used by hrs i would agree
It's still BiS for Combat HR's. Even with it not working on PG, it's still noticeably better for me, though my build might be different than the standard Combat-HR build.
Anyways, it is BiS for my Combat-HR.
Combat pf crit build.
Good work everyone.
(I am a total HR n00b, so I wouldn't know this)
___
Hmm... while I'm here, I wanted to ask you guys something.
Should I include ACT screenshots of HR DPS while using a Vorpal in the comparisons?
Some abilities are worth boosting their DPS more than others; for example, Trapper HRs should prioritize Thorned Roots damage rather than, say, Longstrider Shot damage.
I was wondering if it was worth it to include HR DPS with a Vorpal as a "base" comparison from random runs, since it would help uneducated HR n00bs like me know which abilities in which to prioritize DPS boosts from.
all their ranged counterparts bug feytouch
I was hoping that the CD reduction would be significant (as in proc on flurry hits).
Im not real sure how blade storm works even by itself. Like, if I CtG and hit 4 mobs, is that 4 seperate chances to proc Blade Storm? I presume it is, so that if you are swinging at 4 mobs, it will proc once per swing, on average.
There was a thread about balance saying that 'plant growth' is magic, technically not melee damage with your blades, so Im guessing that lightning will NOT proc blade storm.
However whats not clear is if bladestorm has a chance to proc lightning, and if it does, would it be once per bladestorm proc or once per target in the bladestorm AoE?
Then against 3 dummys i could see it frequently proccing multiple times and hardly ever didnt proc at least once.
So am I missing something? Blade storm seems AWESOME if you have the artifact off hand power for it (+25% damage) Thats 45% of the attack damage in an area around you...Seems waaaay better than twin blade storm which doesnt even come into effect until you are hitting 3 targets, and then you get a measly flat 16%.
Now if that blade storm procs lightning each time it damages a single target, we are off to the races....
I presume the bladestorm AoE is like the flurry - some sort of bonus damage that doesnt proc lightning, but you cant be sure until you test. I gotta get my hands on a lightning enchantment to play around with.
Does anybody have any comment on the artifact augmented Bladestorm >>>>>> arftifact augmented Twin Blade Storm? Or am I reading it wrong?
augments:
"Blade Storm: The damage dealt by Blade Storm is increased by 25%.
Twin-Blade Storm: Twin-Blade Storm now increases your Damage by an additional 2% when damaging more than two enemies with an attack."
Does the blade storm augment take the AoE damage to 45% (from 20%) or does it increase the 20% by 25%, meaning it increases it to 25%? Its ambiguously worded.
If the former, it absolutely rocks, being good for +11% (on average) per mob you hit with a single swing. i.e. if you are hitting 3 mobs with a swing, it will deliver on average +33% DPS
If the latter, the benefit is roughly half that, which is still better than TBS at every point (even at 3 mobs per swing TBS gives 18% and BS gives on average 18.75% and increases with every mob)
On thinking about it, I think its probably just taking the blade storm damage from 20% to 25%. Still nice, as on average it performs similarly to scything blades.
SB = 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%
BS = 6.25, 12.5, 18.75, 25, 31.25
TBS = 0,....0,....18,....18,....18
You could feature swap between TBS and AoTP for mobs/bosses. I sometimes swap AotP for Lone Wolf on mobs to help mitigate the fact that I inevitably end up tanking. TBS would escalate, rather than mitigate that problem for me.
AotP seems like a no brainer now - a straight 15%, plus 2% per ally, plus there is drow hunting techniques that gives another 10% for combat advantage?
Oh but wait, there is that ambiguous wording again - "CA damage is increased by 10%..." Is that +10% or x10%? Now that I think about it, its probably the latter - taking you from 15% -> 16.5%
But I guess theoretically, you can place yourself to get combat advantage without using a class feature - would the artifact augment still work in that situation? probably not.
Not just me, Sharp, Janne, Ironzerg, etc. all talked about how Drow Ambush Tactics is a 1.1x multiplier versus your overarching CA Bonus.
So, yes, it would take your 15% -> 16.5%, assuming you had 10 CHA, no CA Comps, and no CA bonus stat.
For a Trapper in PVE the melee version of Cordon of Arrows, Plant Growth, is a large source of DPS. Normally for me it is in the same range of Thorned Roots in dungeons (together they are roughly 70% with roots 2-3% higher than Plant Growth). In the first phase in MSVA Plant Growth usually outperforms roots for me (all the cooldown reductions you get there enable PG spamming while you can't stack roots on a target).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80