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testing weapons enchantments
i took a day off playing to test some enchantments here the results:
- dread enchantment: performs around 42-30 +3 = 15% better than vorpal. Weapon damage bonus does not scale with buffs/power and does not crit.
- bronzewood: armor reduction is not working in pve and the 5% damage bonus is in reality a 5% more effectiveness (like debuffs). Strange fact: it procs an undocumented % of weapon damage. Too low to be noticeable.
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- feytouch: is definitely providing a 18% damage bonus (not 27% as someone reports). Like i reported in many bug threads: it bugs out using aoe enchantment but is working right on a common trapper pvp set up: fox + hindering + constrincting. In this case up time is 100%. This is not the case of combat HRs usually slotting cordon of arrows or thorn ward...once you use them you can say bye bye to the damage buff.
- Terror: the debuff last 3 seconds.
- Holy Avenger: high potential on combat HR in pve. The bonus damage when the enchant procs the additional bonus scales on tooltip but not in reality. Its always 33% (and not 12% as stated on the tooltip without buffs). Thats not a straight damage bonus to all sources of damage like feytouch (thats at least what i understood from the now closed @sharpedge 's thread) but only to the holy avenger ticks value.
Combat HR: piercing blade and flurry do not proc weapon damage ticks from weapon enchantments
further tests to check:
- do the weapon enchantments crit ticks procs trapper's cunning?
- lightning damage is actually bugged and proc GWF steel breeze on enemy hit by the arc. Does this happen to blade storm too?
if the second question is yes, lightning may become BIS for combat HRs.
feel free to help
Tldr: no trapper should use weapon damage based enchants
- dread enchantment: performs around 42-30 +3 = 15% better than vorpal. Weapon damage bonus does not scale with buffs/power and does not crit.
- bronzewood: armor reduction is not working in pve and the 5% damage bonus is in reality a 5% more effectiveness (like debuffs). Strange fact: it procs an undocumented % of weapon damage. Too low to be noticeable.
-
- feytouch: is definitely providing a 18% damage bonus (not 27% as someone reports). Like i reported in many bug threads: it bugs out using aoe enchantment but is working right on a common trapper pvp set up: fox + hindering + constrincting. In this case up time is 100%. This is not the case of combat HRs usually slotting cordon of arrows or thorn ward...once you use them you can say bye bye to the damage buff.
- Terror: the debuff last 3 seconds.
- Holy Avenger: high potential on combat HR in pve. The bonus damage when the enchant procs the additional bonus scales on tooltip but not in reality. Its always 33% (and not 12% as stated on the tooltip without buffs). Thats not a straight damage bonus to all sources of damage like feytouch (thats at least what i understood from the now closed @sharpedge 's thread) but only to the holy avenger ticks value.
Combat HR: piercing blade and flurry do not proc weapon damage ticks from weapon enchantments
further tests to check:
- do the weapon enchantments crit ticks procs trapper's cunning?
- lightning damage is actually bugged and proc GWF steel breeze on enemy hit by the arc. Does this happen to blade storm too?
if the second question is yes, lightning may become BIS for combat HRs.
feel free to help
Tldr: no trapper should use weapon damage based enchants
Post edited by rayrdan on
2
Comments
Can you test for combat too?
How does Bilethorn perform? How does it even work? Enough people are talking about it being BIS for them that I guess I assume the tooltip is wildly misleading, because it doesn't look like a contender at all. Does /every/ hit cause an additional stack of 4s delayed aoe damage? Do AoE skills apply it to everything?
Thanks in advance!
didnt test vorpal vs dread as combat.
will test in the nwar future bilethorn as combat.
i dedicated my testing to better understand feytouch today.
Also, I did a week long comparison of Vorpal vs. Feytouched, and it does seem like Feytouched is bugged somehow with PG. I'm not an expert on game/coding mechanics but the Vorpal does out perform Feytouched even though it probably shouldn't.
i will however do some more holy avenger tests as soon as i can
Who eez this "@sharpedge" you speak of?By the way, do you mind if I cite you on the Blade Hurricane/Piercing Blade tests? Because apart from those 2, I pretty much wrapped my tests on HR enchants.
First, I did GF for my own personal use, then GWF because WickedDuck frustrated me with his "test" runs, then Prozo got me curious on OP, and then you HRs asked me nicely to test HR stuff... I currently have TR tests coming up next, followed by DPS DC and then the multi-proc hell known as SW.
Currently though, there's actually one last thing holding up my calculations for HR:
At what % of health does the Thorn Strike damage bonus kick in (in Sharp's ability coefficient sheet says to multiply the coefficient by 1.1 depending on target health, which I assume to mean a 10% damage bonus)?
Also, I feel slightly guilty about stealing Vicious Delicious' thunder, since he worked so hard to test the enchants. But, hey, this is his thread, so if he wants me out, then I will oblige his requests.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_nsKUaVsPnM105wnnxmcNvZ3ZrC5BN0s2hgNYjvEqKQ/pub
RE-EDIT: Link is down because I am adjusting for the Mod12 debuff changes (makes Terror better), finding Bilethorn 2nd hit crit/non-crit disparity, and anything else I can think of.
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I am not very good at playing an HR, so I'm not aware of any long lasting bugs that you guys know about.
These are the abilities I tested, with most of the selection of abilities being reccomended by @jaegernl, with the exception being Clear the Ground (I was the stupid one who wanted to test that). Let me know if I missed any big critical damage dealers.
Thanks again!
EDIT: Retroactive derp. I just realized that this meant I forgot to delete the Dread row for Hunter's Teamwork/Clear the Ground. This is what happens when I'm managing so many abilities and charts: I forgot to delete those columns of my copy paste of my master version. Thanks for the heads up.
Also, keep in mind what Pit has said above, that I didn't account for multiple ranks in skirmisher's gambit or any of the HR's CA stuff (especially important, since the HR aspect of the pack gives practically 100% CA bonus uptime). So, in reality, the DPS increase of Vorpal and Dread on the example HR I used may not account for reality.
Using the CA+CS graph, Vorpal gives me approximately a 17.5% DPS bonus when added to my base 184.5 CA+CS. So is it safe to assume that using your chart, i can just substitue your DPS% value for vorpal as 17.5% across the board?
That is why I left the formulas there, in case you want to calculate your exact values.
Namely my questions are about DoT stacking and AoE procs:
- Flaming: The DoT effect states that it stacks up to 3x. Does this DoT effect get clipped when refreshed by a new attack (worst possibility)? Does an extra DoT damage instance happen immediately when refreshed at 3 stacks (best possibility)? Neither of these (most probable implementation)? On an AoE attack such as Clear the Ground, does both the instant and DoT damage get applied to just the primary target, or to all targets hit?
- Lightning: Is the effect procced off of all targets off of an AoE attack? I.E. If I use CtG on 5 mobs, does one instance of lightning chain between 5 mobs, or do 5 instances of lightning chain between 5 mobs? Same question with the initial %wepdmg boost.
- Bilethorn: Does the delayed effect proc off of all targets of an AoE attack, or just the primary target? Same question with the initial %wepdmg boost.
Thanks!https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1227227/official-feedback-thread-weapon-enhancement-changes/p1
If you pay attention to posts by Sharpedge (Thefabricant) he details the behavior of each enchantment, one by one. On page 8 he has a link to an overview with summary of maths.
Bear in mind some of the scaling was rebalanced before the changes went live. But the mechanics were left largely unchanged.
Flaming caps out at 3 DoT stacks. Meaning, that if you're a class which can multi-proc the enchant/attacks very quickly, Flaming starts becoming worse and worse as you pile on the hits. So, technically, the % I give on flaming is not quite as accurate as it is in reality.
For Lightning, I believe it arcs up to 4 targets, so you would hit only 4 of the mobs with the Lightning, and the last wouldn't be hit. I don't think you would get one arc on 4 targets and then start another one on the fifth target, but I can check that... eventually... (going to do the TR's single target DPS stuff next).
Bile bile can proc on targets within the vicinity of the original hit (ie, the second hit does not need to be the primary hit). I tried this on the SH dummies with Sudden Storm: I angled my Sudden Storm to only hit the two middle targets, but the second hit procc'd on all 4 dummies.
I'll defer to the mad scientist @thefabricant himself in the event he has better or more conclusive data.
How lightning works is as follows:
Lets assume there are 5 enemies and you hit 1 of them with a single target attack. The Lightning will proc once on the target hit, it will then chain to the 3 nearest targets but the 5th will be left out.
And yes with Bile you don't actually need to hit all the targets for the AoE to hit them, it is a proximity thing. When testing I didn't find any limit on the number of targets hit by Bile's AoE, however, as there is a delay, it doesn't function very well on trash fights.
Also if you feel like messing around with graphs with crit sev etc on a slider, here is the graph of fanning the flame on CW:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/hvjdaiqsqc
You will need to modify the values on the left to match whatever values you use for HR, but otherwise, this should work. Also, note I left out some enchantments in this comparison, if you want to look at those, you will need to add them.
In the same 5-mob lightning enchant scenario, how many chains occur if I hit all 5 with an AoE attack? Still just one, or 5?
Character: Vendetta
If you're a Combat HR, then you have a different story.
Feytouched seems to be broken in the good way. As in all the thorned roots stuff seem to multi-proc/bug Feytouched, putting it on par, if not better than Bile.
As @mattmonroe has pointed out earlier, my Vorpal and Dread calculations did not account for Skirmisher's Gambit (because this was a mostly copy-paste from my master version). I know matt only found Vorpal to be a ~17.5% DPS increase on his Combat HR, which starts shaking up how good Vorpal/Dread are.
I'll probably update the list with more accurate tests/calculations of Flaming (to not count for all 3 stacks), Lightning (AoE), and some other things, but not right now when I'm on edge with having to delicately balance multiple things (summer class registration, math homework, getting TR stuff done, worrying if my guild leader comes back, sitting through lectures, etc.).
Since the HR in question is a decently geared and feated Combat HR, we can assume the following.
Base Crit Severity: 75% base + 50% (5x Skirmisher's Gambit) + 2% (Icewind Dale boon) +2% (Cloaked Ascendancy) + Tedium of the Dragons (5%?) = 134%
CA: 15% Base, Drow Ambush Tactics, 13 CHA, and 1000 CA stat (roughly 8% CA bonus) = (1.1) * (0.15 + 0.03+ 0+ 0.08)=0.286
So, if we account for all of that in our formula... with an assumed 100% Crit Chance
DPS Increase = -1 + [(Cii*X +P +1)/(Ci*X+P +1)]
DPS Increase = -1 + [1.84+0.286 +1]/[1.34+0.286 +1]
DPS Increase = 0.1904, or 19.04%
A pretty close calculation, all things considered. I don't know the exact stats of @mattmonroe's HR, but I believe he said 184.5% Crit Severity and an unspecified % of CA bonus.
Base Crit Severity (without vorpal) = 145.5 (75% + 50% skirmishers + IWD 2%, + Cloaked 2%, + TOD 6.5% + Erinyes 10%
CA Bonus: ~39% (15% base, 5% from Charm, 10% drow ambush, 9% from CA stat bonus)
= 184.5% w/ 100% crit chance