I believe there are a lot of smaller guilds that feel frustrated by the high costs of Stronghold (SH) upgrades in terms of time and resources. I was encouraged when Cryptic reassessed some of the starting values, which led to a decrease in certain categories. However, part of the time frustration is having to go back and repeat older content as that conflicts with completing current content, helping friends complete current content, or competes with the daily AD grind. One way to alleviate that frustration and to help smaller guilds is to expand the opportunities to obtain SH resources (Mod 11b appears to head in this direction). As others have indicated, making any HE count toward the Influence grind would do a lot to reduce the time cost. However, another way to expand is to incorporate SH resource opportunities into each of the post-SH release expansions, which is currently lacking. Any easy way to do that can be pulled from existing in-game resources, such as that involved in the Siege of Neverwinter event. The voucher drop system from the Siege event made it particularly attractive to guilds focused on improving their SHs. Allowing a broader category of in game currency to buy such vouchers would allow current content to contribute to SH development and expand the opportunities to collect resources without doubling up the amount of grind time needed for older campaigns as well as allowing a means for future content to incorporate into the SH system. Doing so also removes stagnant resources, which serve no function once the relevant campaign portion has been completed. Some examples:
Cloaked Ascendancy (River District) - allow Evidence of Evil, Abandoned Treasures, and Secrets of the Many-Starred (which serve no purpose once all the boons are unlocked) to be converted to SH vouchers via the Traveling Merchant (requiring that section to be unlocked). Sea of Moving Ice/Storm King's Thunder - allow Vonin Blood, Ten-Towns Supplies, Secrets of Ostoria, and Ostorian Tale Carvings (which are wasted once you have finished upgrading all your gear to Vivified) to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window. Elemental Evil Campaign - has a limited means of converting post-campaign completion rewards to SH resources so may not require further changes. Maze Engine - allow Tales of Adventure to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window. I'd recommend 100 Tales = 1 Blue Voucher. Underdark - allow Twisted Ichor, Faerzress, and Demonic Ichor to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window (this competes in part with key production, but I end up converting most of my Demonic Ichor into pants and shirts for the AH). Call to Arm (CtA) skirmishes - allow Medallions of Battle to be redeemed for SH vouchers via the CtA merchant.
Other ways to expand: Ardent Coins - allow SH voucher purchasing system. Celestial Coins - allow SH voucher purchasing system. Trade Bars - allow SH voucher purchasing system. Seals of Adventurer - allow SH voucher purchasing system (would allow contributions by guild members leveling up). Seal of the Elements - allow SH voucher purchasing system, which could be added to the final tab. Seal of the Protector - allow SH voucher purchasing system, which could be added to the final tab. Miscellaneous Bounty Merchants - allow SH voucher purchasing system for Bounty Completions. Would help breath some life into the lower tier zones and maybe encourage players to go back and look at some of the zones they skipped leveling up as well as giving leveling up guild members another opportunity to contribute.
Some of these would compete with daily AD production, but the same is true of using AD to purchase vouchers from the AH or to buy other resources (e.g., Genies Gift) to convert to campaign currency for SH donations. Vouchers are also scaleable meaning you wouldn't have to adjust SH resource cost if deemed too high as you could just scale the value of the voucher instead, which makes it easier to adjust. Such a system would not involve adding any new merchants as they would be simply added to existing merchants. The vouchers already exist in game so would not require any new icons.
As one other person posted: Frozen Treasures - allow refined Black Ice to be contributed. With the recent/upcoming changes, Black Ice serves little purpose anymore (though some of it can be redeemed for Black Ice gear, which can be donated as Surplus Equipment, though that isn't really a limiting resource if you have multiple guild members who dedicate a utility slot or two to Quartermaster enchants).
I would have to agree with influence being available from all HE's across the game. The reality is that if you follow the concept - if adventurers from your guild are out slaying demons in icewindale - they are spreading the influence of your guild. Theoretically you would WANT your guild to be known from Icewindale to the Well of Dragons as a band of adventurers who come in and destroy evil... that's influence. Right now our influence is limited to the little shanties around our stronghold... that's not very influential.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Elemental Evil Campaign - has a limited means of converting post-campaign completion rewards to SH resources so may not require further changes.
The return on this task for the time it takes to get the resources is awful and should be revisited so you at least get as many shards as from the similar Maze Engine task. 12 HEs for 2 shards, travelling to and around 4 large zones? With some of the HEs being broken too? Blech.
Maze Engine - allow Tales of Adventure to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window. I'd recommend 100 Tales = 1 Blue Voucher.
100 Tales is 100 days, as you are limited to 1/day. The repeatable task that already exists and can be used to produce Conqueror or Dungeon shards only requires 5 Tales. If any modification were to be done here, all you'd need would be to toss a couple of voucher types in the list of reward choices for the existing box. This seems quite fair as you have no choice but to do even the worst quests as Bruenor won't change what he offers you even when it means you have to climb most of the way up Icespire Peak, cursing the entire time. You're looking at maybe an average of 25 minutes of questing per campaign task. The boxes bind to account and can be stored for a 2xShard (or Seal) event, but only stack to 20.
Underdark - allow Twisted Ichor, Faerzress, and Demonic Ichor to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window (this competes in part with key production, but I end up converting most of my Demonic Ichor into pants and shirts for the AH).
A voucher task already exists, if you take a look. No meaningful sink for Twisted Ichor though.
I completely agree that the time/effort required for the follow-on Elemental Evil Campaign unlocks should be revisited as I can't imagine anyone continuing that grind without an overabundance of time on their hands.
I was thinking of the wrong Maze Engine resource. As you indicated, Tales of Adventure can be converted into Conqueror Shards, which I do during double shard events and can reach pretty high levels depending on the duration between events. I think the resource I meant to refer to may actually be called "Alliance Supplies" or something similar, which makes it sound like it was intended for Stronghold contributions; it's the one that unlocks the transmute pieces and comes in at roughly 100 per box opened (sometime slightly more). For those who have no interest in transmutes, having a SH contribution alternative would seem appropriate and a blue voucher for completion may draw more people to continue running the content.
The Underdark vouchers like the Elemental Evil Campaign ones should be revisited as the Faerzress/time cost doesn't equate the value received. In the alternative, the types of vouchers that can be selected should be expanded to include the other SH campaign resources (e.g., Treasures of Tyranny, Frozen Treasures, Fey Trinkets, Dark Gifts), which was the general reason for the suggestion as it would cut down on duplicate grind time of older campaigns.
there suposed support to small guild is to add temp buildings that takes forever to gather resources for.
The influence building require 36k food. a rank 3 Farm make about 2.5k every 6-8 hours(lets pretend every 5 hours).
that means if a 10 man guild farm it 5 times a day you get 2.5 X 5 =12500 Food ... that means it take 3 days(if players play 24 hours a day) to make 1 temp building leaving very little resources left for real building upgrades.
I do not even want to know how slow this will be at level 1 farm.
This was repeatedly pointed out pre release and ignored. Their solution was to allow more storrage in low level sh coffers
I still believe there should be a sliding scale.
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
The return on this task for the time it takes to get the resources is awful and should be revisited so you at least get as many shards as from the similar Maze Engine task. 12 HEs for 2 shards, travelling to and around 4 large zones? With some of the HEs being broken too? Blech.
I agree. The extent that I do it currently is to get the Barracks Upgrade task, run to the Pit, do 3 Rocks Fall and 4 days later get the 2 shards. Anything more than that isn't worth my time.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I'm a guild leader of a small guild and have gone thru the motions before of trying to add members to the guild. It's very frustrating and caused me to leave NWN for a year. I have come back and now running guild without adding any more members. Since they leave at a drop of hat for other guilds. Want this or want that.. Maybe some day!
Anyway I believe NWN should do what DDO does for guild levels. Increase drops based on guild size. Small guild size 15 members, Medium Guild Size 16 thru 75. Large Guild Size 76 plus. And inactive members are decreased from guild size after 1 month.
And Barracks needs to have Conquering Shards changed! What if you are a PVE guild! Or Conquering Shards need to granted from other PVE venues like Seals, those stupid drops from all the Zones... Or from boss fights
The only way guild is getting Barracks is by buying Stronghold boxes. And its not the first couple of levels that's an issue, it's beyond...
Comments
Cloaked Ascendancy (River District) - allow Evidence of Evil, Abandoned Treasures, and Secrets of the Many-Starred (which serve no purpose once all the boons are unlocked) to be converted to SH vouchers via the Traveling Merchant (requiring that section to be unlocked).
Sea of Moving Ice/Storm King's Thunder - allow Vonin Blood, Ten-Towns Supplies, Secrets of Ostoria, and Ostorian Tale Carvings (which are wasted once you have finished upgrading all your gear to Vivified) to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window.
Elemental Evil Campaign - has a limited means of converting post-campaign completion rewards to SH resources so may not require further changes.
Maze Engine - allow Tales of Adventure to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window. I'd recommend 100 Tales = 1 Blue Voucher.
Underdark - allow Twisted Ichor, Faerzress, and Demonic Ichor to be converted into SH vouchers via the campaign window (this competes in part with key production, but I end up converting most of my Demonic Ichor into pants and shirts for the AH).
Call to Arm (CtA) skirmishes - allow Medallions of Battle to be redeemed for SH vouchers via the CtA merchant.
Other ways to expand:
Ardent Coins - allow SH voucher purchasing system.
Celestial Coins - allow SH voucher purchasing system.
Trade Bars - allow SH voucher purchasing system.
Seals of Adventurer - allow SH voucher purchasing system (would allow contributions by guild members leveling up).
Seal of the Elements - allow SH voucher purchasing system, which could be added to the final tab.
Seal of the Protector - allow SH voucher purchasing system, which could be added to the final tab.
Miscellaneous Bounty Merchants - allow SH voucher purchasing system for Bounty Completions. Would help breath some life into the lower tier zones and maybe encourage players to go back and look at some of the zones they skipped leveling up as well as giving leveling up guild members another opportunity to contribute.
Some of these would compete with daily AD production, but the same is true of using AD to purchase vouchers from the AH or to buy other resources (e.g., Genies Gift) to convert to campaign currency for SH donations. Vouchers are also scaleable meaning you wouldn't have to adjust SH resource cost if deemed too high as you could just scale the value of the voucher instead, which makes it easier to adjust. Such a system would not involve adding any new merchants as they would be simply added to existing merchants. The vouchers already exist in game so would not require any new icons.
As one other person posted:
Frozen Treasures - allow refined Black Ice to be contributed. With the recent/upcoming changes, Black Ice serves little purpose anymore (though some of it can be redeemed for Black Ice gear, which can be donated as Surplus Equipment, though that isn't really a limiting resource if you have multiple guild members who dedicate a utility slot or two to Quartermaster enchants).
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I was thinking of the wrong Maze Engine resource. As you indicated, Tales of Adventure can be converted into Conqueror Shards, which I do during double shard events and can reach pretty high levels depending on the duration between events. I think the resource I meant to refer to may actually be called "Alliance Supplies" or something similar, which makes it sound like it was intended for Stronghold contributions; it's the one that unlocks the transmute pieces and comes in at roughly 100 per box opened (sometime slightly more). For those who have no interest in transmutes, having a SH contribution alternative would seem appropriate and a blue voucher for completion may draw more people to continue running the content.
The Underdark vouchers like the Elemental Evil Campaign ones should be revisited as the Faerzress/time cost doesn't equate the value received. In the alternative, the types of vouchers that can be selected should be expanded to include the other SH campaign resources (e.g., Treasures of Tyranny, Frozen Treasures, Fey Trinkets, Dark Gifts), which was the general reason for the suggestion as it would cut down on duplicate grind time of older campaigns.
The influence building require 36k food.
a rank 3 Farm make about 2.5k every 6-8 hours(lets pretend every 5 hours).
that means if a 10 man guild farm it 5 times a day you get 2.5 X 5 =12500 Food ... that means it take 3 days(if players play 24 hours a day) to make 1 temp building leaving very little resources left for real building upgrades.
I do not even want to know how slow this will be at level 1 farm.
This was repeatedly pointed out pre release and ignored. Their solution was to allow more storrage in low level sh coffers
I still believe there should be a sliding scale.
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
It's very frustrating and caused me to leave NWN for a year. I have come back and now running guild without adding any more members. Since they leave at a drop of hat for other guilds. Want this or want that.. Maybe some day!
Anyway I believe NWN should do what DDO does for guild levels. Increase drops based on guild size.
Small guild size 15 members, Medium Guild Size 16 thru 75. Large Guild Size 76 plus. And inactive members are decreased from guild size after 1 month.
And Barracks needs to have Conquering Shards changed! What if you are a PVE guild! Or Conquering Shards need to granted
from other PVE venues like Seals, those stupid drops from all the Zones... Or from boss fights
The only way guild is getting Barracks is by buying Stronghold boxes. And its not the first couple of levels that's an issue,
it's beyond...