Maurader Strongholds event feedback

isssssho

So today we assembled a group of 10ish high end players to try out the event. At the beginning it felt easy and not too challenging - but as waves passed we noticed that mobs' levels keep increasing over time. At some point mobs that are lvl 74 started to appear and at that point it felt like a challenge along with lvl 75 mobs after that.
However with each lvl up on mobs their mitigation (and damage resistance) kept rising at unbelievably fast rate resulting later with damage ticks that would usually hit 180k damage on dummies for example to hit 1-2k damage on lvl 76 mobs with 18k armor penetration (143% RI). Increase in DR is OK if you ask me but increase in damage mitigation is not because ways of lowering it are very limited - and the way it is now it will not be possible to pass beyond wave 40 - 41 (and reaching those waves will take 4+ hours). I am not sure if it is the design you planned, but the way it is - it creates a certain problem. If players stop killing because they are unable to - such as in this case, some mobs will steal portion of supplies and leave for good without more of that kind spawning afterwards - leaving other type of mobs which do not steal but just stand there at which point event will be stuck and will never finish. Two possible solutions for that in my opinion - add round timer, or make mobs who steal goods re-spawn after 1 group successfully steals and leaves the area with plunder.

rjc9000

I heard about the level 76 mobs from the Crusaders folks (thanks guys, by the way). I was going to try to graph mob DR values, but was then reminded that there is a level difference formula type thing.

Essentially, as the difference between attacker and defender level grows, the attacker deals less damage to the defender. I think this is why some of our debuffs/most of our attacks are only 3/4ths as effective on Level 73 mobs, mob DR non-withstanding.

(Sharpie, Michela, Janne, etc., if you guys are viewing this thread, please confirm/deny if I have this correct.)

So... given the level difference, I honsetly feel like the devs purposely designed it like a classic arcade game/quarter-muncher: You aren't supposed to win. Which is odd, considering how much Thomas Foss is all about "risk-vs-reward/press your luck" style event progression, where you can win, but only if you are prepared for super difficulty.

...

Also, what rewards did you guys get from the event? I'm curious, since it seems like a fun event, but given the state of rewards, well...

isssssho

Officially, we got no rewards - since original plan was to continue the waves until the event ends itself after we beat the hardest wave - just to check out how far and hard is the event designed. However now it seems that mob waves are controlled by algorithms (increasing lvl of mobs every 2 checkpoints until you can no longer kill them). As levels increase they become stronger, tankier and steal faster.
However at one of the checkpoints if i remember correctly reward pool was around 140 minor vouchers (campaign currency ones mostly), now what I am not sure is if the vouchers in the pool were mine alone or they are distributed to all guildies that participated in the event.

loboguild

The mob DR% for all levels is in the game files. I'll try to dig it up today. Plus as mentioned mobs that are at least three levels above 70 get a hard DR that can't be pierced. It's 25% for 73, prolly much more at higher levels.​​

micky1p00

rjc9000 said:

I heard about the level 76 mobs from the Crusaders folks (thanks guys, by the way). I was going to try to graph mob DR values, but was then reminded that there is a level difference formula type thing.

Essentially, as the difference between attacker and defender level grows, the attacker deals less damage to the defender. I think this is why some of our debuffs/most of our attacks are only 3/4ths as effective on Level 73 mobs, mob DR non-withstanding.

(Sharpie, Michela, Janne, etc., if you guys are viewing this thread, please confirm/deny if I have this correct.)

So... given the level difference, I honsetly feel like the devs purposely designed it like a classic arcade game/quarter-muncher: You aren't supposed to win. Which is odd, considering how much Thomas Foss is all about "risk-vs-reward/press your luck" style event progression, where you can win, but only if you are prepared for super difficulty.

...

Also, what rewards did you guys get from the event? I'm curious, since it seems like a fun event, but given the state of rewards, well...

The DR is also set by mob type and roll, so there are about 9 values per level, it will be probably easier just to see in a week (or preview) what is there.

The debuff mitigation is probably by level only and with some 'luck' can be 'extrapolated'.

isssssho

We just completed the event again stopping at wave 25 to check out the rewards. Along from those on the screenshot I'm providing we also got 600 influence - and the reward pool is for each participant separately - so resource wise its nice income for the guild - but its also time consuming, until wave 25 it took us 57 minutes.

Unknown

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adinosii

defiantone99 said:

For that kind of event, the vouchers need to be epic or even legendary. Grey vouchers? Really?

Well...you get a lot of vouchers. The gem vouchers are 25 each, so getting, say, 40 of them is 1000 Gems.... not bad.

loboguild

In terms of length vs rewards it should be noted that big guilds/alliances can run the event much more efficiently with up to 40 people I guess?​​

beckylunatic

Are people really strapped for Fey Trinkets to the extent it's a good addition rewards-wise? I run the Arcane Reservoir on a lot of alts, so that's not yet been a tough resource for us. I have donated out a lot as well, so I suppose I do see times when allies have been short.

lowjohn

The *only* rewards are the 600 Inf from the weekly and stack upon stack of campaign mats? Nobody got any food or stone or Influence or Gold?

ichimaruginx

It's certainly a big change from 10mins DFs.

adinosii said:

defiantone99 said:

For that kind of event, the vouchers need to be epic or even legendary. Grey vouchers? Really?

Well...you get a lot of vouchers. The gem vouchers are 25 each, so getting, say, 40 of them is 1000 Gems.... not bad.

I find the rewards a bit off the low end. 625 gems for a 57mins investment of time (not to mention to get to 40 would prolly take nearly 1.5 to 2hrs).

The 600 infl will be very useful though - and I'd encourage guilds to at least run a wave or two per week to get that (time vs reward).

rjc9000

isssssho said:

However now it seems that mob waves are controlled by algorithms (increasing lvl of mobs every 2 checkpoints until you can no longer kill them). As levels increase they become stronger, tankier and steal faster.

I have a dying question I wanted to ask for a while:

Can you cc the mobs into the SH moat?

Because I must know if I can let the killer pirhanas do my dirty work.

qexotic

One question: do participants get any 'personal' rewards, e.g. RP, bits of companion gear, etc., or is it all just SH vouchers ? If the answer is 'No', then I can't see this being a popular event. Spending time fighting a pointless battle that you cannot win in return for no rewards is going to be a hard sell to guild members. At least with the existing events, Dragonflights and SH HEs, players get something they can make use of themselves in return for their time in addition to the stuff they can contribute to the progress of the Stronghold. From what has been said so far in this discussion, that particular reward is missing entirely from this event...or have I missed something ?

adinosii

qexotic said:

From what has been said so far in this discussion, that particular reward is missing entirely from this event...or have I missed something ?

I have not seen any "personal" rewards as such - however, even if you just get vouchers, there is still a personal advantage - you get Guild marks when you donate to the coffer - and with Mod 11-B you have a whole lot of new, interesting stuff to spend marks on. The best items from the Mysterious Merchant are 20.000 Guild Marks each, so there is a strong incentive to earn marks.

qexotic

adinosii said:

qexotic said:

From what has been said so far in this discussion, that particular reward is missing entirely from this event...or have I missed something ?

I have not seen any "personal" rewards as such - however, even if you just get vouchers, there is still a personal advantage - you get Guild marks when you donate to the coffer - and with Mod 11-B you have a whole lot of new, interesting stuff to spend marks on. The best items from the Mysterious Merchant are 20.000 Guild Marks each, so there is a strong incentive to earn marks.

So that would be a 'No' then. Thanks for answering the question >:)

As far as I can see, this event pays the equivalent of wages for carrying out a tedious, pointless job when people are looking to get nice rewards for having fun playing an enjoyable game. This seems far too much like RL work which is something people play games to get away from.

Clearly, Cryptic really, really need to go back to the drawing board with regard to player rewards for completing events, dungeons and similar things in general. The current trend to keep reducing them, see the threads on master Spellplague and FBI rewards, is just not the right approach. With diminishing rewards for normal activities reducing player motivation to take part, a similar approach with Stronghold events is going to have a negative effect on player participation. Without the incentive of shiny new goods in return for effort expended, people will just lose interest and possibly leave altogether.

isssssho

@rjc9000 Desperate times require desperate measures - mostly mobs are cc-able and oh boy piranhas do deal with them quick compared to us, but over time enlarged versions of mobs appear who are frozable and dazable but can not be moved out of their standing place (spiders x3 size of priestess of lolth etc)(I suspect some of em are using pocket version of eye of the giant ). And that aside CC is a must have in order to get far in the event.

michela123

Level 76 mobs? This is funny. According to an old test in low level maps (and to my not very good memory):
if the enemy has 3 level more than you, your attacks are 75% effective
if 4 levels more than you, 50% effective
if 5 levels, 25% effective
if 6 levels, 1% effective

This reduction is applied directly to your base damage, regardless of your resistance ignored and enemy’s damage resistance. It also affects some buffs and debuffs.

beckylunatic

michela123 said:

if 6 levels, 1% effective

Yeah, this is why levelling players can't dent a pinata (drops as a level 60 "mob") anywhere other than their stronghold.

isssssho

that would actually make sense so much - but that would mean no player could even in theory go beyond wave 41

tom

Im so looking forward to this event after reading this sounds like a really fun and challenging event.

hawkeyel

I think this event will be a big help to the development team as well. It will give them the numbers they can use to see just how far the player base can go and will also show them the end effects to any changes they make going forward. Something fun and useful for all.

adinosii

Just wondering if I'm just confused or....

I thought that the Gem vouchers were 25 Gems each on Preview when we tested this originally, but on live they are 5 Gems each. Did I just recall their value incorrectly?

beckylunatic

I don't think you were the only person who had tested it valuing the event based on vouchers worth 25 gems.

darthtzarr

beckylunatic said:

I don't think you were the only person who had tested it valuing the event based on vouchers worth 25 gems.

vida44 said:

Each voucher earns 5 in gems to the guild coffer

Pretty sure they were always 5

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229563/neverwinter-m11b-general-feedback/p6

beckylunatic

Thanks for finding that.

vida44

But compared to my first test they nerfed the vouchers bad. 25 vouchers in the run on preview with only one supply protected, compared to a 5-10 on live is a significant nerf.

EDIT: Or to use @terramak wording ---> slightly nerfed

crogus44

Well, I play on Xbox One and my alliance ran the event last night with a full compliment of people in the stronghold (40). It took us 4.5 hours to get to wave 35 and the vouchers were honestly not worth all the time, energy and aggrevation we all spent doing this event. Yes we each got the 600 influence for first run but for all the time and energy that we put into this we only get white vouchers worth maybe tops 10 per voucher in our guild coffers? Definately not!!! The devs need to rework the rewards system with this event if they want people to launch it because as it stands right now, my alliance has decided that the only time we are going to run this is for the 600 influence and that is it. We have all decided Dragonflight is more profitable for the guilds than this event. We all said we would rather ring 10 bells and spend two hours killing dragons then doing this event. We get more from Dragonflight.

Astoria Gentleharp
Guild Leader of Faith of the Dragon