At long last, have you no decency? Fix the lockbox mount packs.

feanor70118

Two Green Insignias. Over and over and over. This is far too small to be a lockbox 'reward.' It has needed to be upgraded since the introduction of insignias. Fix it now.

Please.

eltacogrande

Yeah 2 greens in 1 box has to be one of the most insulting/aggravating ways to start the day, almost makes you just wanna close the game and wait till the next day.

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urabask

Eh. The middle tier and upper tier of the rewards drop enough that the value on the mount packs is 30k+. If you don't want to take that risk just sell it without opening it.

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feanor70118

urabask said:

Eh. The middle tier and upper tier of the rewards drop enough that the value on the mount packs is 30k+. If you don't want to take that risk just sell it without opening it.

Dealing with Cryptic's unrewarding rewards in the best available way is not the point. It is never the point of a thread like this. Every reader of the forums knows how to check the auction house. No reader of the forums listens to or cares about the words of anyone who, faced with a problem, simply says, "Accept it and deal with it this way." No one at all.

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

Mod edited out some snark.

strathkin

You got to remember that each key only cost 1.25 and not every item you open should be awarding you items worth 10's or 100's of thousands of astral diamonds to list on the exchange. But often they are all items that you can generally build up or upgrade at least with respect to professions and every now and then score a real nice item.

But I think urabask said it best if you don't want to take the risk sell the pack unopened... whole risk/reward decision.

snotty

feanor70118 said:

If you disagree with that idea, you have nothing to contribute to this thread and should spend your time elsewhere.

you know its a pointless thread when the poster makes a comment that is basically saying "agree with me or shut up"

urabask

If you really wanted to single out a part of the current lockbox as being problematic it should be the fashion pack. Last I checked nothing it drops is worth more than 2k. Pcks that settle at 30k+ are more than acceptable.

oldbaldyone

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

feanor70118

snotty said:

feanor70118 said:

If you disagree with that idea, you have nothing to contribute to this thread and should spend your time elsewhere.

you know its a pointless thread when the poster makes a comment that is basically saying "agree with me or shut up"

Well, feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This isn't addressed to you, it's addressed to Cryptic.

Additionally, it seems to me that you haven't thought through what is pointless and what is not. To me, it's pointless to interject in a thread intended to correct a flaw in the game that makes it less enjoyable when all one has to contribute is apathy. There's nothing to debate here. It's desire for improvement versus apathy. If anyone is encouraging the devs to keep going with ever-decreasing rewards and return on time invested, it's the apathy crowd. So don't expect me to welcome the input of the people who are telling Cryptic that it's just fine to keep doing things the wrong way.

feanor70118

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

Actually, no, this isn't a question of economics alone. It's also a question of utility within the game. No one would mind if legendary mounts were accessible to everyone (as in fact they should be). So, your attempt at a lecture on the concept of inflation/deflation is entirely pointless.

urabask

feanor70118 said:

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

Actually, no, this isn't a question of economics alone. It's also a question of utility within the game. No one would mind if legendary mounts were accessible to everyone (as in fact they should be). So, your attempt at a lecture on the concept of inflation/deflation is entirely pointless.

That's the thing most packs already do offer utility. The problem here is that you want your items directly from the lockbox when lockboxes already deflate the prices of so many items that they're much cheaper than they would be otherwise. e.g. Epic insignia that drop from the mount pack are worth one half of what they used to be worth, epic marks are worth one third of their value before the equip pack, and the epic neck equips that drop from the equip pack are worth 1/3 of their value in RP.

feanor70118

urabask said:

feanor70118 said:

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

Actually, no, this isn't a question of economics alone. It's also a question of utility within the game. No one would mind if legendary mounts were accessible to everyone (as in fact they should be). So, your attempt at a lecture on the concept of inflation/deflation is entirely pointless.

That's the thing most packs already do offer utility. The problem here is that you want your items directly from the lockbox when lockboxes already deflate the prices of so many items that they're much cheaper than they would be otherwise. e.g. Epic insignia that drop from the mount pack are worth one half of what they used to be worth, epic marks are worth one third of their value before the equip pack, and the epic neck equips that drop from the equip pack are worth 1/3 of their value in RP.

Which is a good thing. Necessary items should not be prohibitively expensive.

oldbaldyone

feanor70118 said:

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

Actually, no, this isn't a question of economics alone. It's also a question of utility within the game. No one would mind if legendary mounts were accessible to everyone (as in fact they should be). So, your attempt at a lecture on the concept of inflation/deflation is entirely pointless.

I don't think you get it and I don't think you will. Good luck to you.

lordseth1985

That's why I never open those packs and just sell all of them on AH. It's not worth, and I get back 30k ad.

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jganth

defiantone99 said:

The Fashion Pack is much worse than the mount one....

The should make it so that you gain extra powers for wearing those Water Fashions. Egads
It's to the point where you avoid opening certain lockboxes as the low end items are set to the highest occurrences.

feanor70118

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment.

You understand that the more items drop that are worth the investment, the less items that will drop that are worth the investment - right?

Most of the items coming from lockboxes are priced based on their value to other people. The more common these items are, the less they are worth.

Actually, no, this isn't a question of economics alone. It's also a question of utility within the game. No one would mind if legendary mounts were accessible to everyone (as in fact they should be). So, your attempt at a lecture on the concept of inflation/deflation is entirely pointless.

I don't think you get it and I don't think you will. Good luck to you.

I get it just fine. When your point has been refuted and exposed as shallow thinking, it's easier to declare victory without risking another unsuccessful attempt at applying logic. Have fun.

Unknown

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oldbaldyone

feanor70118 said:

I get it just fine. When your point has been refuted and exposed as shallow thinking, it's easier to declare victory without risking another unsuccessful attempt at applying logic. Have fun.

You are applying no logic and have won no "victory" (unless trolling is the victory I guess...). While I agree it sucks getting the HAMSTER reward, you simply CAN NOT always get your moneys worth. Its like being upset that when you go to the casino, you lose most of the time....that is the entire point of it. its a lottery, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and rarely you win HUGE.

Even if they wanted to and there was a point to it, they couldn't make certain you always profited from the lockboxes unless everything that dropped was A) valuable and sold at a fixed price (like GMOPs). Again, they won't do that because everyone would simply buy keys, profit from the contents of the box, then buy more keys, open more boxes, make more money.....

Dungeons are the same way. You can't always get the rewards that are worth the keys...but at least dungeons, you have to work for the result, so the rewards should be a tiny bit better on average. You can't just say, I'm going to open a chest right now - you have to get there first.

People need to understand that the difference between the average loot being a little less valuable than the key, and the average loot being as valuable or more so than the key....is a big difference. Sure, i wouldn't mind if they took out some of the junk rewards, but I do see the point.

feanor70118

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

I get it just fine. When your point has been refuted and exposed as shallow thinking, it's easier to declare victory without risking another unsuccessful attempt at applying logic. Have fun.

You are applying no logic and have won no "victory" (unless trolling is the victory I guess...). While I agree it sucks getting the HAMSTER reward, you simply CAN NOT always get your moneys worth. Its like being upset that when you go to the casino, you lose most of the time....that is the entire point of it. its a lottery, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and rarely you win HUGE.

Even if they wanted to and there was a point to it, they couldn't make certain you always profited from the lockboxes unless everything that dropped was A) valuable and sold at a fixed price (like GMOPs). Again, they won't do that because everyone would simply buy keys, profit from the contents of the box, then buy more keys, open more boxes, make more money.....

Dungeons are the same way. You can't always get the rewards that are worth the keys...but at least dungeons, you have to work for the result, so the rewards should be a tiny bit better on average. You can't just say, I'm going to open a chest right now - you have to get there first.

People need to understand that the difference between the average loot being a little less valuable than the key, and the average loot being as valuable or more so than the key....is a big difference. Sure, i wouldn't mind if they took out some of the junk rewards, but I do see the point.

So what you're saying is that you think a game should always be stacked against you and should essentially cheat you, like a casino.

I'm not here for masochism.

micky1p00

feanor70118 said:

oldbaldyone said:

feanor70118 said:

I get it just fine. When your point has been refuted and exposed as shallow thinking, it's easier to declare victory without risking another unsuccessful attempt at applying logic. Have fun.

You are applying no logic and have won no "victory" (unless trolling is the victory I guess...). While I agree it sucks getting the HAMSTER reward, you simply CAN NOT always get your moneys worth. Its like being upset that when you go to the casino, you lose most of the time....that is the entire point of it. its a lottery, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and rarely you win HUGE.

Even if they wanted to and there was a point to it, they couldn't make certain you always profited from the lockboxes unless everything that dropped was A) valuable and sold at a fixed price (like GMOPs). Again, they won't do that because everyone would simply buy keys, profit from the contents of the box, then buy more keys, open more boxes, make more money.....

Dungeons are the same way. You can't always get the rewards that are worth the keys...but at least dungeons, you have to work for the result, so the rewards should be a tiny bit better on average. You can't just say, I'm going to open a chest right now - you have to get there first.

People need to understand that the difference between the average loot being a little less valuable than the key, and the average loot being as valuable or more so than the key....is a big difference. Sure, i wouldn't mind if they took out some of the junk rewards, but I do see the point.

So what you're saying is that you think a game should always be stacked against you and should essentially cheat you, like a casino.

I'm not here for masochism.

Who is cheating you? If your thinking is to shallow to understand the odds in a casino it doesn't mean the casino is cheating on you.
Only that you are not making the correct economical decisions, due to that shallow thinking.

lantern22

defiantone99 said:

Ya, at this point it is best to just sell every pack from lockboxes. I am learning that. Somebody will buy them.

This.

I probably open less than 1 in 10 of the packs in of the boxes I open, every couple of months I'll open a pack, get hugely disappointed by the rewards and go back to posting just the packs (when I actually bother to open a box).

It used to be that a pack was worth 20-30K minimum, these days they seem to be worth as low as 10K - that's like one CN run

tripsofthrymr

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment. If you disagree with that idea, you have nothing to contribute to this thread and should spend your time elsewhere.

I disagree, and I have something to contribute to the thread.

You can buy a lottery ticket in real life for $1. You might get lucky and win $1,000,000. If you were always guaranteed a prize worth at least the price of the ticket, that could never work. With a lottery system, you necessarily have winners and losers.

Lockboxes work the same way. If a key costs $1.25 (for example) and you have perhaps a 1:1000 chance of loot worth around AD 30,000,000 (orange mount), some of those loot rolls have to be worth a less than $1.25. There are plenty of other prizes that, while not overwhelmingly valuable, are worth a significantly more than the cost of a key. In order to have the really fantastic prizes and the pretty good prizes, there have to be prizes that disappoint.

If you aren't into gambling with a key, you can get pretty much everything a lockbox holds on the auction house at market prices.

feanor70118

micky1p00 said:

Who is cheating you? If your thinking is to shallow to understand the odds in a casino it doesn't mean the casino is cheating on you.
Only that you are not making the correct economical decisions, due to that shallow thinking.

1) I didn't say anyone was cheating me. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the First Socratic, i.e., "How does that follow?" before involving yourself in an argument.

2) The spelling you're looking for is 'too.' It's important, and you should have learned it by second grade at the latest.

3) I am not interested in a discussion of casinos. Please take your distraction tactics elsewhere.

4) Your use of the phrase 'correct economical decisions' seems to show that you don't know the difference between the words 'economic' and 'economical.' You should know your own terms before relying on them in a debate.

feanor70118

tripsofthrymr said:

feanor70118 said:

The point of this is that content, e.g. lockboxes, which is expensive in terms of money or time should ALWAYS give rewards worth the investment. If you disagree with that idea, you have nothing to contribute to this thread and should spend your time elsewhere.

I disagree, and I have something to contribute to the thread.

You can buy a lottery ticket in real life for $1. You might get lucky and win $1,000,000. If you were always guaranteed a prize worth at least the price of the ticket, that could never work. With a lottery system, you necessarily have winners and losers.

Lockboxes work the same way. If a key costs $1.25 (for example) and you have perhaps a 1:1000 chance of loot worth around AD 30,000,000 (orange mount), some of those loot rolls have to be worth a less than $1.25. There are plenty of other prizes that, while not overwhelmingly valuable, are worth a significantly more than the cost of a key. In order to have the really fantastic prizes and the pretty good prizes, there have to be prizes that disappoint.

If you aren't into gambling with a key, you can get pretty much everything a lockbox holds on the auction house at market prices.

Here's why you contributed nothing:

1) Everyone knows that both terrible and really great lockbox rewards exist.
2) Everyone knows that either can be sold on the auction house.
3) It does not follow (and you wisely made no attempt to demonstrate) that really awful prizes are a necessary condition for the existence of really good ones.
4) You have only repeated the predictable and extremely tired arguments made by the indifferent in EVERY SINGLE THREAD THAT INVOLVES THE RNG IN ANY WAY. As always, those arguments are not supported by logic and making them only serves to keep Neverwinter mediocre.

dupeks

Putting more value / progression into lock boxes serves to make the game less focused on playing and engaging with the content / community and more focused on getting your hands on lockbox keys.

If the expected value of a lockbox contents was greater than the cost for the key, the best option for any player seeking progression would be to save up money for keys and open boxes. That's not a direction I'd like this game to go.

Some of the points presented on both sides are valid, and the lock boxes could really be made to remove some of the most garbage prizes and distribute the awards such that there isn't such a dramatic scarcity of the fanciest prizes. That would likely drop the value of the fanciest prizes and getting rid of the garbage would raise the value of the lowest prizes. I think that would come close to making a majority of people happy.

oldbaldyone

At this point, he's trolling guys. Thread has all the signs of trolling, and I fell for it too. Start off with a decent, legit topic, then start belittling anyone who disagrees without making counter-points. Throw in some grammar policing....and you got it all.

Move on. I really never thought, in a thread that contained postings from @defiantone99, that there would be someone else involved that I'd like an ignore function for

feanor70118

oldbaldyone said:

At this point, he's trolling guys. Thread has all the signs of trolling, and I fell for it too. Start off with a decent, legit topic, then start belittling anyone who disagrees without making counter-points. Throw in some grammar policing....and you got it all.

Move on. I really never thought, in a thread that contained postings from @defiantone99, that there would be someone else involved that I'd like an ignore function for

1) You don't know what 'trolling' actually is. That's ok, not many people do anymore. It's a concept taht started in Usenet days, specifically when a guy named Ted Frank (now a conservative lawyer for a right wing think tank, then the most active human poster on the internet) started, for instance, hanging around on alt.fraternities and getting people there to say things that they believed but would only say among others whom they thought agreed with them.

2) Using superior logic and appropriately dismissing those who lack any logic is not trolling. There's nothing illegitimate about grammar policing. Correct grammar is necessary to any verbal debate. The lack of it only causes confusion, and tends to indicate the presence of someone who is simply not equipped for the debate and therefore not worthy of being taken seriously.

But as you've already shown, you're not interested in admitting when you've been proven wrong. Your post here is most likely just another tiresome internet way of declaring victory and/or deflecting attention from the actual topic.