Me (healadin Svatá Prdelka) with Rubytrue (stealadin Sable Shadowstorm) in ETOS

oggycz

At first I thank to Rubytrue for doing ETOS with me. I was curious how works Rubys Stealadin build with high life steal. I have 0% life steal. I think I found some interesting results. I dont want compare damage, my char is 4k+ with 3xR12 bondings. I share screenshots from Advanced combat tracker (outgoing dmg and outgoing healing).






1) Ruby did more Prism ticks 24k vs 18k
2) But we did similar BG and HW ticks
3) My Aura of courage did much higher dmg, dont know why. I have 170k HP, Ruby is not much behind
4) I did most healing by Bond of virtue, but Ruby by Prism.
5) Ruby did only 45 life steals.

Its evident Healadins do most of damage with Aura of Courage, HW and BG. So it would be good to know, how manage proc HW and BG as much as possible.

rubytrue

A big thanks to oggycz for doing a run with me and collecting data. It was a blast as well as enlightening. Just for reference, I am a 3K Stealadin with 162K HP I use an Owlbear Cub as my summoned companion. We were both running with Trans Feytouched weapon enchants, if I remember correctly.

A few things that stood out for me on the data:
1.) There was a huge discrepancy on the Aura of Courage despite being only 8K difference in HP (~5% difference in HP and ~250% difference in damage).
2.) ACT showed only 45 lifesteals; I am wondering if I did a lot more lifesteals than that, but at full health they didn't register. I wonder if that is what was proccing my prism so much. (I have about 40% lifesteal chance.)
3.) Looks like we were both using Bond of Virtue, but oggcz's Bond healed for over 20X as mine. Not sure what would cause that unless he has high crit (I believe he does) and he was critting those Bond heals like crazy. That might be it considering the Magistrate's Consideration numbers on both builds.

rubytrue

It thought it was also interesting that the combinations of AoC, BG and HW accounted for 69% of oggycz's damage, and it accounted for 68% of my damage. I wonder if other DevOPs are getting similar results.

oggycz

rubytrue said:

A big thanks to oggycz for doing a run with me and collecting data. It was a blast as well as enlightening. Just for reference, I am a 3K Stealadin with 162K HP I use an Owlbear Cub as my summoned companion. We were both running with Trans Feytouched weapon enchants, if I remember correctly.

A few things that stood out for me on the data:
1.) There was a huge discrepancy on the Aura of Courage despite being only 8K difference in HP (~5% difference in HP and ~250% difference in damage).
2.) ACT showed only 45 lifesteals; I am wondering if I did a lot more lifesteals than that, but at full health they didn't register. I wonder if that is what was proccing my prism so much. (I have about 40% lifesteal chance.)
3.) Looks like we were both using Bond of Virtue, but oggcz's Bond healed for over 20X as mine. Not sure what would cause that unless he has high crit (I believe he does) and he was critting those Bond heals like crazy. That might be it considering the Magistrate's Consideration numbers on both builds.

add 1) It is big mystery to me. Does someone know why is discrepancy so huge?
add 2+3) I have about 60% crit in combat. Interesting is you healed mostly with Prism. Maybe "hidden" life steal? Something like you do life steal and feed Prism, but Combat tracker shows it only when you are healed. I have over 70k power in combat, so my heals are bigger. But I always heal with Bond and Beacon of Hope, my Prism is minor.

armadeonx

It's probably the crit.

One other thing that would be different in combat is power. Ogg's 3x r12 bondings give 2.5k power and almost triple the worth of points on companion gear - plus if he's using Aura Gifts this also is magnified and returned via bonding stones.

oggycz

armadeonx said:

It's probably the crit.

One other thing that would be different in combat is power. Ogg's 3x r12 bondings give 2.5k power and almost triple the worth of points on companion gear - plus if he's using Aura Gifts this also is magnified and returned via bonding stones.

Yes, I have Aura Gifts.

rubytrue

Note to self: Once you get bonding stones, respec back into Aura Gifts.

I noticed that I was running Aura of Vengeance, meaning I wasn't running Aura of Wisdom at the time; that would of put my recharge rate at around 25%; I know oggycz has a recharge rate of around 99%. How do you think that factored into these numbers.

I'm shocked that Vow accounted for so little healing in the overall scheme of things; over 26M in heals, but Vow only healed for less than 400K.

I'm curious as to how oggycz got such huge numbers with Beacon. I only have one point in it since I only wanted to use it to trigger HW and BG, but it seems to be a legit heal. (I know he has 5 points in it, but those numbers are massive.)

armadeonx

Well it partly depends on which weapons you have and what their rank is. The new weapons have a higher Weapon Damage and 5pts is x5 that of 1pt in Beacon even at the same level. Increase each point by a higher weapon damage and you're looking at a nice multiplication in healing stats from it.

majorcharvenak

Oggy & Ruby. Looks like you two had a fun and enlightening run. Wish you two had video to accompany it.

Ruby...I thought prism only activates (at least thats what the tooltip states) only if you pop a daily but you said you saw it proc when you had a sucessful lifesteal? That seems odd and if it does, recommend the devs adjust the tooltip to reflect that.

I'm also, in a way, not surprised that Bond got the lionshare but I am somewhat surprised that your percentages, Ruby, for Bond weren't similar to Oggy's. I'd be interested to know if Lifesteal is only counted toward self healing and not shoved into bond and spread around kind of how Oggy described it. I dunno, I'm probably stating the obvious again (My hubby says I have a gift for that).

As to whether I've seen similar results...Granted, at ~2.9 IL (using an augment) I'm nowhere NEAR you demi-gods in power, I have seen a similar spread between AoC/BG/HW on my pally.

Anyways...Thanks for sharing the info, you two and see you in game.


Shia/Sereska

rubytrue

majorcharvenak said:

Oggy & Ruby. Looks like you two had a fun and enlightening run. Wish you two had video to accompany it.

Ruby...I thought prism only activates (at least thats what the tooltip states) only if you pop a daily but you said you saw it proc when you had a sucessful lifesteal? That seems odd and if it does, recommend the devs adjust the tooltip to reflect that.

I'm also, in a way, not surprised that Bond got the lionshare but I am somewhat surprised that your percentages, Ruby, for Bond weren't similar to Oggy's. I'd be interested to know if Lifesteal is only counted toward self healing and not shoved into bond and spread around kind of how Oggy described it. I dunno, I'm probably stating the obvious again (My hubby says I have a gift for that).

As to whether I've seen similar results...Granted, at ~2.9 IL (using an augment) I'm nowhere NEAR you demi-gods in power, I have seen a similar spread between AoC/BG/HW on my pally.

Anyways...Thanks for sharing the info, you two and see you in game.


Shia/Sereska

You are correct; you must first activate a Daily power to activate Prism; once activated, however, anytime you are healed, that heal is shared with allies--and it looks like anytime you "attempt" to heal yourself (in my case by lifesteal), even if you are full health, Prism is procced--at least that is what I tend to infer from the data. This means that Prism acts a lot like Burning Guidance in that it seems like it only needs to "attempt to heal" to proc rather than actually heal: according to Sharpedge's Compendium:

Prism:
This is one of the selling features of Justice. When you activate a daily power, prism activates, which causes all allies (people other then yourself) to be healed within a 20 second time period whenever you are healed. It has no ICD, no target cap and I suspect it is instance wide or at least has a massive area. This does not proc off of bond of virtue, heal over time effects or sacred weapon like it once did, making it less effective over all and not as great as it once was. All these heals have a chance to proc burning guidance....

On Burning Guidance:

Burning guidance is an ability that has a chance to proc when the game makes an attempt to heal a character (There is an important distinction between making an attempt and actually healing, as even if a character is sat full health and you can't heal them, because you attempted to, there is a chance you proc burning guidance). When burning guidance procs, it hits for 2k damage as its base damage. Nothing (with the exception of Feytouched) in the game procs off burning guidance, so you cannot apply plaguefire debuffs, or apply dots based off of the damage from burning guidance. Burning guidance has a chance to activate whenever you heal an ally, but it does not include yourself, so when running around solo, burning guidance won't do anything, unless you got a companion active. A companion is counted as an ally, so having a companion active and healing it can proc burning guidance. The damage of burning guidance can be buffed however, so things that increase damage will effect it and so will things that decrease damage, it is not piercing damage. With a good dc and a MoF SW, I have seen procs of BG hit for 11k+. It is important to note that as this is a proc, it has not target cap so long as all targets are within its AoE however, it has a 1 second ICD. Due to this, it is no longer as strong as it once was and you will no longer top paingiver with my dev OP buil, however, your ability to heal is still in tact. The archons have no effect, but you should get a fey enchant for the purposes of buffing BG's damage.

It would be interesting for oggycz to do the run again without me and see what kind of Prism Proc rate he observes. I have a feeling it will be a lot lower without me as I bet there was some type of feedback loop in effect. I would surmise that I would lifesteal, proc Prism which would then heal oggycz, which would then proc his Prism, which would then heal me, proccing my Prism, etc, etc. The thing is, since I have ~40% lifesteal, I am constantly lifestealing so I am constantly healing myself. Conversely, given his high heal rate from Beacon of Hope, that could account for a potential feedback loop, if one existed.

The bottom line is the data says: We need more data before we can give good answers, but right now it is raising some interesting questions--which is something good data should do.

Oh, and FWIW, you and I are only separated by 100 iLevel, and I use an augment as well (Owlbear...which did didly for me other than hold enchants,lol).

oggycz

If I remeber correctly, my Prism proc rate is similar when I am only one devo pally. Depends on party, how quickly is job done. I will try log eTOS with only me as healer. I thought about Ruby big Prism heals. Is it possible, that part of it comes from my heals to Ruby and then to Prism? About some feedback loop, I think (if) this existed in past, its fixed now. I have another interesting thing in mind. My friend has prot pally with Prism and BG/HW. He has similar Prism proc rate when with me. BUT. His BG/HW proc rate is much lower, only few ticks. Why? Maybe Prism needs to do heal bigger then zero to proc BG/HW? And another friend has devo pally, but full light tree and he has singnificantly lower BG/HW proc rate then me. Not as much as friends prot pally, but still.

rubytrue

oggycz#5356 said:

If I remeber correctly, my Prism proc rate is similar when I am only one devo pally. Depends on party, how quickly is job done. I will try log eTOS with only me as healer. I thought about Ruby big Prism heals. Is it possible, that part of it comes from my heals to Ruby and then to Prism? About some feedback loop, I think (if) this existed in past, its fixed now. I have another interesting thing in mind. My friend has prot pally with Prism and BG/HW. He has similar Prism proc rate when with me. BUT. His BG/HW proc rate is much lower, only few ticks. Why? Maybe Prism needs to do heal bigger then zero to proc BG/HW? And another friend has devo pally, but full light tree and he has singnificantly lower BG/HW proc rate then me. Not as much as friends prot pally, but still.

That doesn't surprise me. I know that my Pally procs prism like crazy as well (though I had no idea it was in the 24K range) even when we weren't teaming together. Whenever I am in a group, I sometimes have a hard time seeing the action because my toon is in a cloud of Prism.

I really need to get ACT so I can get data.

oggycz

Yesterday I did CN with other devo pally (full light) in group. He did 3k BG ticks (he has not HW yet), I did 8k BG ticks and 12k HW ticks. Seems like BG and HW ticks depends on Prism and Beacon of hope mostly.

zeplin055

I can't get my tank pally to spam prism like I did when I was Devo.

spiderfire

AoC seems to be affected by 4 things primary. The level of AoC, hp, Arp, and power. The last three are taken from the toon's stats, NOT the OP granting AoC.

When I'm looking in the combat logs, I see toons w with twice my power doing significantly more damage than my own (I'm a 3 k OP tank). Toons with much less power do significantly less damage with AoC than me.

These have been my own observations, though I do not have ACT on my PC. Can someone else confirm?

isaintify1

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

oggycz

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

Interesting is, that Ruby did only 45 life steals, but his Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of heals.

oggycz

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

But interesting is, that Rubys Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of his heals.

rubytrue

oggycz#5356 said:

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

But interesting is, that Rubys Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of his heals.

I'd like to do another run sometime. I've picked up a couple of things, and I am curious what difference they make: Trans Plaguefire (things get really melty now), and Survivor's Wraps (HP drain on daily use-should work really nicely with a stealadin build and Prism--50% of the time Prism is up, HP are draining).

rubytrue

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

If you have ACT, look me up ingame and we can do a few runs together. I think we are the same iLevel (3K). I think we'd have a nice apples to apples comparison. Sable Shadowstorm@rubytrue

I'm all about getting (more) good data. Running with someone my level might also shed some light on some of the anomalous data that oggycz observed.

oggycz

rubytrue said:

oggycz#5356 said:

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

But interesting is, that Rubys Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of his heals.

I'd like to do another run sometime. I've picked up a couple of things, and I am curious what difference they make: Trans Plaguefire (things get really melty now), and Survivor's Wraps (HP drain on daily use-should work really nicely with a stealadin build and Prism--50% of the time Prism is up, HP are draining).

Of course I would like to do more runs with you. But its not easy to see you in game because of time difference.

oggycz

rubytrue said:

oggycz#5356 said:

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

But interesting is, that Rubys Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of his heals.

I'd like to do another run sometime. I've picked up a couple of things, and I am curious what difference they make: Trans Plaguefire (things get really melty now), and Survivor's Wraps (HP drain on daily use-should work really nicely with a stealadin build and Prism--50% of the time Prism is up, HP are draining).

Of course, I would like to do more runs with you. Not easy because of time difference.

michaelrn1982

If you guys would like, I would love to jump in and see how three Paladins would do. Taken for granted I do not run Prism and my Lifesteal is low.

oggycz

michaelrn1982 said:

If you guys would like, I would love to jump in and see how three Paladins would do. Taken for granted I do not run Prism and my Lifesteal is low.

No problem for me. I will try to find you in game.

oggycz

rubytrue said:

oggycz#5356 said:

isaintify1 said:

The results are what I figured would be produced with lifesteal. Only produced 45 swings and healed 662k, and most of your heals came from your actually heal encounters. Basically you are just a heal Paladin with a lot of lifesteal. 6.6M All together was your outgoing. How long was your run exactly, like 10 minutes or so? I did like the concept of your idea but in the end its not feasible in combat. You said in one of your posts that it may not register on ACT is not true. You only heal yourself when YOU are damaged. You cannot lifesteal when you have full health, and in order to heal a party member who is dying who have to go in take damage, get some at wills/encounters off and hope that your lifesteal of 45% chance happens before your other heals proc in. While you are trying to manage all of this your teammate is dead or drinks a potion to heal himself, or is healed BY YOU from one of your other heals like Divine Touch.

Now you can go and keep using this build all you want, but I do not recommend suggesting it to others. I will post some results from my runs in a etos and try to keep about the same time in combat as you guys so its more evenly matched. From what you guys said about your ilvl you are 1,000 ilvl higher than mine so will be interesting to see.

Maybe its just the ilvl difference but I am curious to why your AOC did so much damage.

But interesting is, that Rubys Prism did much more ticks than mine and did most of his heals.

I'd like to do another run sometime. I've picked up a couple of things, and I am curious what difference they make: Trans Plaguefire (things get really melty now), and Survivor's Wraps (HP drain on daily use-should work really nicely with a stealadin build and Prism--50% of the time Prism is up, HP are draining).

Of course, I would like to do more runs with you. Not easy because of time difference. But I will continue trying.

rubytrue

So I've been thinking about the results, and I have rethought my build. I am still totally embracing the "stealadin" concept, but I've also thought about how to maximize where and how my damage comes from; the reality is that *very* little of my damage comes from my encounters so I plan on creating a build where my encounters buff my other damage rather directly deal damage themselves.

Looking at Michela123's debuff guide and numbers, I think I can buff my damage significantly (not only for me, but for the team as well)--and this is before taking bonding stones into consideration. The debuffs I plan on using include:

Heart of the Black Dragon
Con Artist
Vow of Emnity
Bane
TransPlaguefire Enchant
Darkfire

Using Michela123's debuff formula of (1-Enemy Damage Resistance+Player Resistance Ignored+Sum of Capped Debuffs)*(1+Sum of Uncapped Debuffs), I can expect, depending on the situation, anywhere from 125% effectiveness (almost passively) to nearly 248% effectiveness under certain time limited conditions.

It will take a while to get everything I ideally want for this particular stealadin meta (OK, I have everything except for the Bonding stones and another Artifact that I want for this...).

Hopefully, it will perform like I think it will...I'm running out of respec tokens.