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[PC] BOWSER IV : Mod 10+ GF Protector Build

dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
edited March 2017 in The Guard Barracks

Update : 3/19/17 DC changes and GF changes w last patch changed entire dynamic. Suspending build post for now.
Post edited by dread4moor on
JrUzbQw.jpg?1
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
«13

Comments

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    I love this build idea, and actually, when my GF was first starting, I was considering an IV reflect build much like this until I came across Fatshroom's guide.

    This guide needs moar Bowser quotes. Needs a Bowercide option as well

    Just a few things I was thinking about:

    I know it's the style of your guide, but I personally would not write your notes or the descriptions of feats which you aren't planning to use, as it was somewhat confusing at a first glance to figure out what to use. For example, I was wondering "wait what why would you include Iron Focus" until I saw your funny note.

    I'm surprised that you suggested Shield Warrior's Wrath over Combat Superiority, for one reason: Superiority's debuff. I know we're dealing with Cryptic tooltips here, but if the Superiority debuff actually works, wouldn't it technically be better for mitigating damage and building threat (which is what this build intends to do) compared to Shield Warrior's Wrath?

    In the offense slot section, I assume you meant to write "10,000 recovery" instead of "1,000", since 1,000 Recovery does little for keeping your ITF off cooldown.

    Have you considered Knight's Challenge for aggro purposes on bosses? Challenge forces your target to attack you, of which I've been using to great effect when fighting the Jarl in Esvard. It also could be of use to reflect damage via Supremacy.

  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @rjc9000 Thanks for the kind words and editorial.
    Agreed that the Fatmushroom guides are incredibly useful.

    "I know it's the style of your guide, but I personally would not write your notes or the descriptions of feats which you aren't planning to use, as it was somewhat confusing at a first glance to figure out what to use. For example, I was wondering "wait what why would you include Iron Focus" until I saw your funny note."
    Good point. Less is more.
    Some of the choices needed comparison to explain why NOT use them (eg. the whole Swordmaster Paragon). Some we were just cracking wise (Ferocious reaction). And yes, the rest may be superfluous.
    I'll ask Doug to streamline it, remove those we weren't specifically making a point about.

    "I'm surprised that you suggested Shield Warrior's Wrath over Combat Superiority, for one reason: Superiority's debuff. I know we're dealing with Cryptic tooltips here, but if the Superiority debuff actually works, wouldn't it technically be better for mitigating damage and building threat (which is what this build intends to do) compared to Shield Warrior's Wrath?"

    A valid argument. SWW was in 3th place for one reason: we tested it with RedRef and it worked.... Modestly. The stacks add up quick, but the overall damage increase (and threat) was modest.

    We had a CSup ACT test planned last summer "RedRef dissemination of combat superiority". But we got overwhelmed with retesting after the October ITF nerf.
    So, we had (modest) proof that SWW works in RedRed and no proof for CSup. Hence, we can only give a Luke - warm rec for SWW and none for CSup (in party).

    But, we are wide open to consider ANY redundant debuff tool. Anyone out there want to test "CSup vs SWW in RedRef"?

    "In the offense slot section, I assume you meant to write "10,000 recovery" instead of "1,000", since 1,000 Recovery does little for keeping your ITF off cooldown."
    Will check. Typos are entirely possible. Thanks.

    "Have you considered Knight's Challenge for aggro purposes on bosses? Challenge forces your target to attack you, of which I've been using to great effect when fighting the Jarl in Esvard. It also could be of use to reflect damage via Supremacy."
    A buddy showed me his youtube video of this. Definitely interesting for reflected threat building.
    But remember: Bowsers have only one encounter slot. Which to choose against a boss: CStrike to boost party DPS? EThreat to hold aggro and mark? Or (KC)+GA+SoS to earn threat and boost personal damage? Not sure if KC would be my first choice, but hey... diversity!

    Lastly... you want Bowser quotes? Fine! Ambro is a crazy Mario cart fan. I will tell him to plaster that build with Bowser quotes!

    Thanks again for the feedback.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Hi, I read your guide and maybe I will try this build someday.

    First of all, running eSVA as Gf with a tank-setup is a very requested and important build for the raid, since you do KV+mark, wich covers up to 75% of incoming damage to the group (from Daunting Challenge+United). I run a GF Conquerer atm, due to better dps, but my setup is defensive and all I do in eSVA is near permablock + KV + mark+ ITF + EF, by that debuff and buff the group with GA+KV+Crushing Pin and prevent many death (maybe even more consistent than a DC, who can´t cover the hole group with AA at all time). A pure dps GF can´t go for KV in eSVA I think?

    I got some questions about the guide, if you don´t mind.

    1. Protectors capstone was broken last mod, is it fixed?
    2. Your guide: "D2. Your summoned pet (bonded or augment) Azure. Just Azure."
    Azure in defense slot till you hit 80%+ DR buffed, but also for offense slot? I would go for recovery.
    I guess 95% DR due to bosses RI is not needed in case you permashield ?
    3. You recommand Negation. Does the enchant have a better synergy with that build than my GF Conquerer? Because when I used Negation at most bosses my stacks did not proceed >4 stacks most time, due to slow hitting bosses.
    4. about feats i think you should give a consequent advice to take Crushing pin and daunting challenge 5/5 (too good to drop) and find the best option for protector by skipping Shieldmaster and going for Unshakable line? There are allways 2+ allies arround you, if not they are maybe dead and you are done :). Taking both is not necessary with decent gear.
    Not sure about it, but as far as I remember 3/5 Unshakeable Line might be sufficient to never drop with your stamina, especially if you take the boons on top, so you might take 2/5 for either Fight On or United if your build/eqip can afford it.

    That´s what @xsayajinx1 wrote http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1224946/pc-mod-10-5-pve-tactician-swordmaster-guide-together-we-ride

    "@rjc9000 Last time I tested United in module 9 it acted same as Daunting Challenge. Applies to your allies AND YOURSELF.
    P.S. Daunting Challenge stacks for each mark.
    With this information in mind, why would anyone take Shield Defense for 2.5% DR if you can have 5% DR for your whole team AND yourself? "

    -> Mark+ Enforced Threat or Mark, EF and TR double to triple mark targets (I guess 2 marks are active at once, 3 marks never lead to a better efficiency running ACT)
    So you spend 20% damage debuff to the target using Daunting Challenge and double mark

    5. equip: ring of sudden defence +4. I chose to not use sudden defence since I run my DR at cap, so this will not be a benefit if my DR is capped, but at lower GS it might help.

    That´s it so far from my side
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    its not that double mark works. It's just that enforced threat doesn't stack with any mark. And I've always thought it was that way.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    Thanks all for the feedback everyone. @michela123 covered this Mark issue in her recent efficiencies post (We'll add the link in edit later).
    Double stack works, most efficient is Tab + TRush (32%). Again, an argument why TRush makes EThreat optional. Rarely a good reason to use both in sequence as they do not stack.

    @schietindebux , thanks for reviewing and asking good critical questions:

    1. Protectors capstone was broken last mod, is it fixed?
    No. See this feat in the Build update version 1/2017. Acknowledges capstone not stacking, but gives (compelling?) Argument why capstone augmented by this build.

    2." Your guide: "D2. Your summoned pet (bonded or augment) Azure. Just Azure."
    Azure in defense slot till you hit 80%+ DR buffed, but also for offense slot?
    No. That section was ONLY talking about defense slots. Offense is covered in the prior section. This may have been poorly labeled. Will ask Doug to edit. (I got a C+ in Rhetorical structure).

    "I guess 95% DR due to bosses RI is not needed in case you permashield ?"
    Baggs has been getting the question almost daily. He explained it this way: "Permashield is unrelated to DR. DR prevents you from dropping dead involuntarily. Permashield prevents you from dropping your shield (and RedRef) involuntarily."
    In essence, Permashield is an OFFENSIVE state as most of our offense comes from the raised shield.

    3. "You recommand Negation. Does the enchant have a better synergy with that build than my GF Conquerer?"
    Yes. Feated-KV + Feated-GA + RedRef means > 80 hits/min. Except for part of Orcus, our Negation is always stacked.

    4. about feats i think you should give a consequent advice to take Crushing pin and daunting challenge 5/5 (too good to drop) and find the best option for protector by skipping Shieldmaster and going for Unshakable line?
    Good timing. On advice from Grimah we've been testing CPin max and complementary powers. Will post soon and respond to your several other great comments. More to come, thanks.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    grimah said:

    its not that double mark works. It's just that enforced threat doesn't stack with any mark. And I've always thought it was that way.

    I am 100% sure, that ET+mark did lift my effectiveness for 20+8% from double mark in mod 10, they definitely changed mark from ET.
    Since mark and TR is +32% effectiveness it´s a big point for IV, together with my dancing shield it´s a +20+20+12% increase of effectiveness for the group.
    Even tough i disliked the animation from TR wich sometimes lagged and prevented me from blocking accurately, unhandy somehow.
    Cryptic seems to have a problem with fixing their debuffs. Like Iron Guard, Wraith shadow from warlock (a 30% damagedebuff) doesn´t work either accurat.
  • chrissiretlomchrissiretlom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 8 Arc User
    Hi there nice guide you've got
    There's just one question that i have it may be a stupid one or i missed it while reading your guide but which power will activate Crushing pin?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User

    Hi there nice guide you've got
    There's just one question that i have it may be a stupid one or i missed it while reading your guide but which power will activate Crushing pin?

    I am certain it's going to be the Guarded Assault offhand bonus, given that Guarded Assault and Knight's Valor are must haves for this build. Using KV + GA will paint the entire room/group of enemies with Crushing Pin.

    One thing to note is that using this method will result in varying uptime on Crushing Pin, as enemies attack somewhat slowly.

  • sulajplsulajpl Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Funny thing that unaware of this guide, I am using this build. Let's say that some feats, powers etc. I use are "situational" or "recommended". Still, I have to congratulate you with full frankness for explaining and overtalking this build! I did resign from 'armor of bahamut' in order to push tactician's feats to gain all three "C-pin", "Daunting challange" and "united".
    Actually, i've been focusing on highest damage reduction for my party members :) , but having GA, defl. focus and optional boons to boost deflect (fey thistle, everfrost wear bonus 'Icy Aggresion') I may say that i rather fight with my shield than with longsword.
    Many congrats!
    P.S.
    Though I use GA like mandatory, shall I pick then SHIELD TALENT or DESPERATE SURV? That 6% defl. and stronger stamina might make miracles ;)

    Oh, and, uhmm.... did you pay an attention to insignia bonuses? If yes, good; If not, i highly recommend GLADIATOR'S GUILLE and SURVIVOR'S GIFT!

    THANKS, CONGRATZ, THANKS
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @sulajpl
    "Though I use GA like mandatory, shall I pick then SHIELD TALENT or DESPERATE SURV? That 6% defl. and stronger stamina might make miracles ;)"
    Thank you for reading the build, @sulajpl .
    Permashield>deflect. If you are a Bowser and not yet in Permashield you should use Shield Talent.
    Want to go "full deflect", @sulajpl ? I want to say "hell yeah", but my co-author Doug (aka Diminishing Return Downer) would scoff. Ignore Doug.
    Desperate Survival is controversial. Far better then Ferocious Reaction (but so is a flaming outbreak of shingles). But the debuf of combat superiority might exceed Desp Surv unless you stack every possible Deflect RedRef. But please try Desp Surv... and test! Prove it works and we will be the first to endorse you.

    "Oh, and, uhmm.... did you pay an attention to insignia bonuses? If yes, good; If not, i highly recommend GLADIATOR'S GUILLE and SURVIVOR'S GIFT!"
    Amen brother. All 5 authors use those bonuses. Insignia bonus is covered in Bowser IV Section 12.
    "Fill stable with insignia bonus powers that RedRef, heal or mitigate."
    Yes, @sulajpl, it is a bit anemic, mate. I'll ask Took to flesh that out with our top five Bowser Insignia bonuses. Cheers.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    edited January 2017


    Want to go "full deflect", @sulajpl ? I want to say "hell yeah", but my co-author Doug (aka Diminishing Return Downer) would scoff. Ignore Doug.

    Btw, if it helps, I saw an ingenious Paladin build which made use of a Pure and below Shadowclad, in combo with a Shadow Demon.

    He purposely avoided stacking deflect so when his deflect came from Shadowclad, it would proc the shadow demon and he would take no damage. Thus, the cycle would continue as his Shadowclad stacks would build up just high enough and long enough until his Shadow Demon went off cooldown, in which he then got a Deflect and reset the process.

    I am not certain how useful it would be, since most GFs pick up some source of Deflect in one way or another.

    And also...


    Desperate Survival is controversial. Far better then Ferocious Reaction (but so is a flaming outbreak of shingles). But the debuf of combat superiority might exceed Desp Surv unless you stack every possible Deflect RedRef. But please try Desp Surv... and test! Prove it works and we will be the first to endorse you.

    Desperate Survival!

    Never die! Fill your slots with this useless amazing class feature! Protect your friends and troll your enemies! Look death in the eye and say "No, you go down!" Desperate Survival!

    Desperate Survival (c) is endorsed by The Boswer IV Build (tm). Any defects in your build are subject to your own risk. The Bowser IV Build (tm) is not to blame for any idiotic attempts as heroism, downs, soulforges, team wipes, or failed runs resulting from this product. All rights of Desperate Survival (c) are reserved by the Craptic Cryptic Programming Corp.

    (I'm sorry, I had to.)


    Amen brother. All 5 authors use those bonuses. Insignia bonus is covered in Bowser IV Section 12

    EDIT: This bottom part is false.

    (And since when has Michela used a defensive insignia bonuses? Or since when have I become an author of this guide? :P)
    Post edited by rjc9000 on

  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @chrissiretlom
    "There's just one question that i have it may be a stupid one or i missed it while reading your guide but which power will activate Crushing pin?"
    Several. Redundancy of CC reflection is the key to near-constant crushing pin.
    We are constantly receiving hits through our shield/KV, so we stack every possible "hit-triggered" CC.
    @rjc9000 (famous for his excellent tactician build) mentioned the offhand artifact GA power (slow). He is correct that the GA slow is important. It applies on every hit, KV or direct, when shielded (hence Shields Up Always).
    Other RedRef CCs include companion active powers (eg. Cockatrice roots 10% of incoming attacks) that trigger it and others (Paranoid Delusion) that augment the RedRef effect of CPin.
    I must respectfully disagree with my esteemed tactician colleague on one point: our recordings show Bowsers receive >60 GA hits/min in every fight. In large crowds or DoT attacks it's often >100 hits/min.on suggestion of @grimah we have Doug testing Crushing Pin max efficiency on this Build. No hard numbers yet, but the room stays painted with CPin.
    Thanks again for the feedback.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @rjc9000 , bro, think you are getting two different groups confused.
    You and Michela are not listed as authors on this build. You were both kind enough to give feedback and advice which we (Dread, Took, Doug, Ambro. Baggs) greatly appreciate. Never said otherwise.

    "dread4moor said:
    Amen brother. All 5 authors use those bonuses. Insignia bonus is covered in Bowser IV Section 12
    @rjc9000
    "And since when has Michela used a defensive insignia bonuses? Or since when have I become an author of this guide"

    Umm. [Takes a few slow steps backward toward the door].
    Never said either of those things.
    Was talking about Doug Took Ambro and Baggs we all use defensive insignia bonuses.
    Cheers.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User

    @rjc9000 , bro, think you are getting two different groups confused.

    You and Michela are not listed as authors on this build. You were both kind enough to give feedback and advice which we (Dread, Took, Doug, Ambro. Baggs) greatly appreciate. Never said otherwise.



    "dread4moor said:

    Amen brother. All 5 authors use those bonuses. Insignia bonus is covered in Bowser IV Section 12

    @rjc9000

    "And since when has Michela used a defensive insignia bonuses? Or since when have I become an author of this guide"



    Umm. [Takes a few slow steps backward toward the door].

    Never said either of those things.

    Was talking about Doug Took Ambro and Baggs we all use defensive insignia bonuses.

    Cheers.

    sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize who authored the build

  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    Hola-

    I've actually been running a build similar to this ever since the lifesteal nerf/mod 6 too... tho I think you might be missing something? You can get simply amazing sta regen from the pseudodragon companion; for me it's basically 100% shield availability if I'm actually hitting things. When tanking, my companion load out is usually allure ioun stone (slow), lion (buff), rust monster (debuff), pseudoD (sta regen), with active shadow demon 2xR12 bonding + R12 indomintable... should probably go 3 R12 bondings, but i just LOVE the massive hits the SD makes with it (use mount insignia companion damage buff too :smile: ).

    There's a few other situational things- in FBI, for instance, the giant ward overloads on you (do they stack???) and slayer overload(s) on a striker companion seem to work quite well when tanking.
  • sulajplsulajpl Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    You know what? ;) I'm running Desp Surv x Soulforged x Lathander so then can I confirm if that is useful while focusing on achieving mitigations from shadowclads / negations?
    I do have to say it helps but recently I've swapped it with "Shield Talent" for perma perma shield.
    Overall I think desp surv isn' t as vital in this build, though, it fastly clears shadowclad's stacks like after one or two. It is not as purposeful as we might think... i think.
    Nevertheless, my current* deff stats are like 73% DR and 21% defl. As I might have mentioned or not, I'm focussing with extreme prejudice on maximum teammates damage migitation, I found these deflection combinations as an additional feature.

    One, VERY important question, @dread4moor , DOES the DEVOTED PROTECTOR from prot's STACK? DOES IT?

    * - no bondings, idle pure stats

    EDIT: Adding next annoying Q, as I run soul x lathander i don't care if i fall or not, THEN, having DECENT stamina regen (BUT, not ommiting ENHANCED THREAT's CRAZY stamina regen buff), SHALL I use that shield talent? It seems like weaker shield ain't here a much prob, maybe that defl.?
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    sulajpl said:

    You know what? ;) I'm running Desp Surv x Soulforged x Lathander so then can I confirm if that is useful while focusing on achieving mitigations from shadowclads / negations?
    I do have to say it helps but recently I've swapped it with "Shield Talent" for perma perma shield.
    Overall I think desp surv isn' t as vital in this build, though, it fastly clears shadowclad's stacks like after one or two. It is not as purposeful as we might think... i think.
    Nevertheless, my current* deff stats are like 73% DR and 21% defl. As I might have mentioned or not, I'm focussing with extreme prejudice on maximum teammates damage migitation, I found these deflection combinations as an additional feature.

    Please record the ACT on your trial. Even if it fails, we might learn something useful about the interactions between Shadowclad, Desp Surv and RedRef. Even penicillin was a rotten piece of yesterday's lunch before it saved millions of lives.
    sulajpl said:

    One, VERY important question, @dread4moor , DOES the DEVOTED PROTECTOR from prot's STACK? DOES IT?

    Sadly, @sulajpl , No. Devoted Protector “When you block an attack you gain 1/2/3/4/5% increased Deflection Chance for 6 seconds.”
    Doug tested this last year, so no excel to show you right now, but I remember. I am certain the answer is "No" it does not stack. Also, I monitor my own Bowser's deflect%, It gets a single bump (small) from Dev Protector, no more.
    Like the "Sudden" underdark rings it is either On or Off. But I wish it stacked tho. Could you imagine? on this build that would cause immortality.

    EDIT: Adding next annoying Q, as I run soul x lathander i don't care if i fall or not, THEN, having DECENT stamina regen (BUT, not ommiting ENHANCED THREAT's CRAZY stamina regen buff), SHALL I use that shield talent? It seems like weaker shield ain't here a much prob, maybe that defl.?
    Well, keep on experimenting. That's the only way to find new synergy. Good for all tanks, not just this build. Thanks!
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    remfdt said:

    Hola-

    I've actually been running a build similar to this ever since the lifesteal nerf/mod 6 too... tho I think you might be missing something? You can get simply amazing sta regen from the pseudodragon companion;

    We hadn't forgotten Pseudodragon. 2 of us have one. We just don't need it. "Active Bonus: 20% chance to restore some Stamina/Guard when attacking. Applies to you as long as this companion is active."
    We didn't list it, @remfdt, for two simple reasons:
    1) Bowser Build Section 11 clearly states all Pets are for RedRef. Not stamina or any other stat. Rustmonster. Blacksmith. Cockatrice. Shadowdemon (for reasons you explained) all fit RedRef. As cool as pseudodragon is, a RedRef active power is always better.
    2) There are literally dozens of stamina boost methods. You are right, pseudodragon is a great option. But this is a BUILD not a GUIDE, so we cannot list every single companion, just the concept: "Build stamina until Permashield, then invest elsewhere". We (authors) already have Permashield, so we don't really need the pseudodragon.
    For any other build, not using RedRef, Pseudodragon is great for stamina. No argument.
    Just not the best 1st round draft choice for a Bowser.
    Thanks for reading and discussing.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    Okay, reasonable. I'd just note that you can skip a LOT of other sta builders by JUST using the pdragon, which is EZ to swap out for something more DPSie or buffy, if the situation warrants.

    Also, maybe I missed it in the write up, but what weapon/shield artifact powers have you tested/are you using/suggesting?
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @remfdt , yes weapons covered in Bowser Build Section 9. Most of the authors still on twisted set. All working on relic, but [editorial] cryptic needlessly added new refining barrier. No one got time for that.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    Sorry, guess i wasn't clear- I mean, which artifact class feature (mainhand) and feature/stat (shield)? Doesn't matter which artifact weapon set afaik (at least the shieldbearers and twisted are the same anyway). The bit when you right click the item and select "manage artifact powers...". i.e. cube of augmentation currency sink. :)
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Hi to all and happy new year o/

    Very nice guide and very interesting ,it shows a way to play ,other than the typical ,yet still effective :)

    One question though ,cause something i did not understand.

    "Reflective Crowd Control- RedRef spreads these CCs diffusely, triggering Crushing Pin (party DPS buff). Examples: Cockatrice"

    I understand the mechanism (or a t least i think of understand it :) ) of RedRef that directs effects through GA and SoS ,from Gf as a source ,to enemies and to the group.
    But which mechanism is in works ,so effects through companion as a source, to be directed to the GF and through him,to the group?

    How it works? I am really interested in that.I have one companion slot available-not essential for me- and i would like to experiment a bit ,maybe take elements from your guide ,adding some variety to my toon.But i fail to understand the mechanism so i can make it work. :/

    In any case a very interesting guide \o/ :)
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @hypervoreian , many companions have powers triggered by you being hit.

    This build funnels (in fact, amplifies) all party hits through you frequently proccing these "hit triggers".

    For example, if you have an active Cockatrice companion there is a % chance with every hit you receive that the attacker will be rooted (a CC). All hits made on teammates pass through KV to you, triggering the same % chance of a Cockatrice root and reflecting the Crushing Pin debuff (and many others through Guarded Assault) onto the attacker.

    There are a wide variety of companions whose powers work through RedRef. The build lists half a dozen, but we should probaby add the full known/tested/proven RedRef companion list.

    I'll ask the "build team" for help compiling a complete list as there is interest.

    Also, I am 100% certain there are RedRef effects/pets/mounts we don't know about yet. If you notice any we have missed do tell.

    Thanks for reading the build @hypervoreian and for your comment.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    remfdt said:

    Sorry, guess i wasn't clear- I mean, which artifact class feature (mainhand) and feature/stat (shield)? Doesn't matter which artifact weapon set afaik (at least the shieldbearers and twisted are the same anyway). The bit when you right click the item and select "manage artifact powers...". i.e. cube of augmentation currency sink. :)

    Holy crud! Made several references to our artifact power preference but didn't actually add a section on it. Added to weapon section and updated. Here it is for quick reading:

    Mainhand: They all suck for Bowsers. Threatening Rush (Damage bonus) is a mediocre boost, but the least-bad of many bad options. Tide of Iron (increased shield recovery on bash) is an alternative, but… Permashield. So, meh.
    Offhand: Guarded Assault (Reflects Slow on attacker). MANDATORY.
    This is awesome! Arguably the most effective RedRef layer in our arsenal. Coupled with Crushing Pin, this artifact power simultaneously debuffs foes and buffs DPS for the entire party.
    Stat Boost: Follow the “Boon Priority” guide from section 6 (Boons). Basically, choose what you are missing in decreasing order of Bowser priority.

    Great catch, @remfdt . Thanks!
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    @rjc9000 blockquote>

    sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize who authored the build

    It's all good, mate. Our poor writing style is to blame.
    There's a reason this is the first build the 5 of us have written in 3 years of playing NWO: We suck at writing.
    You've been very supportive and given useful feedback, so thanks.
    Your Tactician build is the best GF in current use, IMHO, so you have great cred.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    edited January 2017



    It's all good, mate. Our poor writing style is to blame.
    There's a reason this is the first build the 5 of us have written in 3 years of playing NWO: We suck at writing.
    You've been very supportive and given useful feedback, so thanks.
    Your Tactician build is the best GF in current use, IMHO, so you have great cred.

    XD

    Inadvertedly, playing this game has helped my (rather poor) math skills (thanks to talking to a certain mad scientist).

    Also, something about artifact weapons:

    You reccomend Elemental Fire -> Drowned -> Twisted -> Relic.

    Elemental FIre is the starting set and Drowned is easy to get. I can see these being choices.
    Twisted is alright, but given how the build is based off reflecting damage/spreading companion procs via GA + KV, you're not going to make use of the Twisted Defense bonus very much.

    ...

    My biggest question is this: Why would you reccomend the Relic weapons and not the Stronghold weapons as the BiS?

    Both are hefty investments for your GF.

    The Stronghold Set requires two Stronghold Guardian's Armaments (masterwork gear and is somewhat expensive), Protector's Seals, and a bunch of Dragonflight fangs (or SH Siege stuff, if SH siege is even alive).

    The Relic weapons cost a bunch of stuff from fishing (a decent, but not astronomical investment), a bunch of Reclaimed Runes (so enjoy doing 20 days worth of SoMI quests on a GF with no DPS! /sarcasm), moults (expensive on AH, or can be acquired from maps/HEs), and a lot of Voninblod (2-5 hours of mind numbing Relic grinding... <_<). In addition, you also will need to run a few Svardborgs to upgrade your Relic weapons to at least purple.

    Given the costs, the biggest appeal of the Relic weapons is the increased weapon damage, of which is unecessary for a tank-based build as this.

    Whereas the Stronghold weapons provide a team damage mitigation source (which is part of the build concept), in addition to a nice damage bonus for your team; the two bonuses seem to make the SH set the superior option when compared to the Relic set.

    Thoughts/opinions?


  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    @rjc9000: Just opinion here: unless you only roll out your GF for tanking duties, having the ability to go "DPSy" when NOT grinding an instance (i.e. being tanky) makes life much more enjoyable. I personally swap out 4 powers, one mount insignia, 2 companions, and 2 companion gear items and go from beefy tank to reasonable DPS... i.e. able to clear an imp pack in moving ice with one EF stomp, or kill a giant in 5-8 seconds. The base damage from the relic weapon is a big help for that (i.e. the base damage bump up from twisted).

    Having said that, it was an insane grind to make and refine em (I kept/banked the twisted set, just in case/as future feeders). I don't envy someone trying to do this with the key/chest change that just went in. I do plan on eventually making the SH set, but more from OCD than from actual desire to use...
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    Hi dread4moor :
    Crab is a companion that has a chance of CC-root.

    there are a lot of companions that have control powers ,but it is not their active,but their summoned powers.
    i don't think that these will proc red ref but i will mention them,cause my expertise on redref mechanism is atrociously low :/

    The companions are :
    Apprentice Wizzard
    Renegade illutionist
    Storm Rider
    Neverwinter Archer
    Wayward Wizzard

  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    @hypervoreian thank you for reading the build and your comments.

    True, crab 's active power is a root, but... "on dealing damage". If that included RedRef damage, that would be frickin' awesome.It would root proc like crazy.

    Baggs (co-author) saw this back in the Elemental campaign and made us all run out and buy crabs... Baggs gave us all crabs... [insert bad joke here].

    I dunno, @hypervoreian , I personally tested the "crab root" on ACT last year and it didn't seem to work through Guarded Assault damage.
    Granted, that was almost year ago and I've long-since deleted the data.
    Have you tested "crab-root"+RedRef? If so, please prove me wrong. I will be there first to celebrate and tell the other Bowsers to ... [pause for comedic effect] run out and get themselves some crabs.

    Edit: @rjc9000 , saw your last comments, not ignoring. Am actually testing your Relic vs SH weapon questions on ACT this weekend. Will reply soon with data.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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