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Bunny Hoppers - PvP

patcherrkmpatcherrkm Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
Can we do something about the bunny hopping? Make jumping use stamina? Right now it has a built in dodge mechanic. People are currently exploiting the mechanic and jumping around everywhere. CW's jumping with elven battle have infinite stamina for infinite dodges. Is this as intended? It's kind of silly the the game encourages a bunch of high level pvpers to jump around like morons on the battle field.

Solution: Make jumping use stamina. 2 jumps and your bar is gone? or just remove the dodge mechanic from jumping. If anything someone attacked in the midair should get proned like they are knocked off a mount or something. Just saying.
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Comments

  • dodgododgo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 870 Arc User
    also double repel...
  • forumnamesuxsforumnamesuxs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 490 Arc User
    Jumping doesn't have any dodge mechanic it itself. Not from my experience anyway. What I have observed however, is that some attacks are dodged long before/after the actual dodge happens.
    That being said, at least removing the same defenses that are removed while on a mount, while jumping (not falling), or make at least ranged attacks impossible while jumping (not falling) impossible, sounds like good changes to me.
    Wolves, big as a horse! I need new pants!

  • divectoredivectore Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    I don't know about you, but jumping do nothing different to me, your hitbox reamain in the ground anyways, even for dragons.

    What I have observed however, is that some attacks are dodged long before/after the actual dodge happens.

    .

    Thats is of curse because latency, when you dodge, in the screen of the other person you are dodging half a second later.
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User

    Can we do something about the bunny hopping? Make jumping use stamina? Right now it has a built in dodge mechanic. People are currently exploiting the mechanic and jumping around everywhere. CW's jumping with elven battle have infinite stamina for infinite dodges. Is this as intended? It's kind of silly the the game encourages a bunch of high level pvpers to jump around like morons on the battle field.

    Solution: Make jumping use stamina. 2 jumps and your bar is gone? or just remove the dodge mechanic from jumping. If anything someone attacked in the midair should get proned like they are knocked off a mount or something. Just saying.

    This has come up before lol, tho Ive no idea who else besides me remembers it. Anyway I dont think any action will be taken by Cryptic but thanks for the laugh :smile:
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  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    Is this a PvP specific thing?

    Like a previous poster, I don't see any difference in PvE regarding AoE-attacks, whether I'm jumping or not?

    Or maybe my incredible (in a bad way) ping just makes me terrible at timing it...
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    There is no dodging associated with jumping; and you can be proned or CC-ed or hit when you are in mid-air. The only thing that may be achieved while jumping in a given direction and dodge in mid-air is that the distance you dodge is increased, although only marginally.

    Some PvPers may jump a lot so that they become more difficult to target (make you dizzy just looking at the screen lol), but this is more of a play-style than a class attribute, as all classes can do it.
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  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited December 2016

    Can we do something about the bunny hopping? Make jumping use stamina? Right now it has a built in dodge mechanic. People are currently exploiting the mechanic and jumping around everywhere. CW's jumping with elven battle have infinite stamina for infinite dodges. Is this as intended? It's kind of silly the the game encourages a bunch of high level pvpers to jump around like morons on the battle field.

    Solution: Make jumping use stamina. 2 jumps and your bar is gone? or just remove the dodge mechanic from jumping. If anything someone attacked in the midair should get proned like they are knocked off a mount or something. Just saying.

    I think its a little too early for april fools
    you ARE more vulnerable to certain prones and attacks while jumping not immune or less !!!!!!!
    a skill player will time it and hit you mid jump
    any class can jump to re position themselves in combat and jump/ use a power mid air
    a gf would not do it cause he needs his block .. an offensive cleric might jump cast
    and offensive pally .. a cw ... a TR probably not .. a warlock between shadow slip re charges maybe

    2 jumps and you stamina is gone ..just lol dude so you jump off a platform and onto the steps and then cant use stamina anymore really well thought out dude...

    next thing you are going to say is a characters height makes it easier for him to dodge as well right
    only pvpers pick the shortest possible height right ??

    so if someone is not using elven is that more acceptable in your book to be jumping ?>?
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    Jumping in pvp while in combat does nothing. Players used to do it with the ambush ring to attack without breaking stealth (specifically wizards) because you could fire off encounter powers while maintaining movement to keep the ambush effect going. Since the ring has been changed this isn't really a thing anymore, but some players keep doing it either out of force of habit or because they think it's cool.
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  • forumnamesuxsforumnamesuxs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Jumping combat is not a force of habit, or "to look cool". It's a play style which gives a CW, or any other ranged class, the ability to move and attack at the same time.
    I learned this while leveling my first character, and I'm a bit puzzled by the amount of people who still haven't figured it out. Maybe it's a lack of multitasking capabilities, tunnel vision syndrome in combat, or just that people prefere lazy gameplay.
    I even use it on TR to avoid loss of stealth. Charge up DF, jump forward, lock on, dodge/whatever is the next logical step. This is probably easier vs critters, than other people though.

    Edit: I actually use it on GF in PvP as well, if I'm confident that my target has no CC off c/d. Jump attack with crushing surge if a slower target is trying to get away, can be quite effective.
    Wolves, big as a horse! I need new pants!

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited December 2016

    Jumping in pvp while in combat does nothing. Players used to do it with the ambush ring to attack without breaking stealth (specifically wizards) because you could fire off encounter powers while maintaining movement to keep the ambush effect going. Since the ring has been changed this isn't really a thing anymore, but some players keep doing it either out of force of habit or because they think it's cool.

    not because Its cool... Its because some powers have very long rooting casting animations that can be somewhat mitigated by jumping and re positioning

    also jumping gives extra reach to get fleeing opponents and extra little boost to reach players camping/attacking on ledges

  • tolkienbufftolkienbuff Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    Jumping while moving backwards was perfected by CW's early in PVP. It creates distance, allows you to cast while moving, and keeps you agile in case you need to dodge an encounter. In prior mods it was the ONLY way for CW to survive against decent players. Jump casting ray of frost to build stacks of chill and freeze that darn GWF that always seems to be right in your face. Also, jumping backwards creates enough distance that non lock attacks (such as at-wills or GWF IBS) may miss purely because the encounter range is less than the space made by "bunny hopping".

    This is why any class that does not have to hold its' shield up or cast its' aura will likely be "bunny hopping" if they are any good at PVP. A moving target is harder to hit, a jumping target may simply leave the range of the encounter. If you want to become better at PVP, it's best to mimic good players than to complain about their tactics.

    Thanks for your time.

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  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    yes try animation cancel with IBS and see what u can hit :O
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  • patcherrkmpatcherrkm Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    So basically good pvpers are forced to jump around looking like idiots. That's my problem. The game rewards players for bunny hopping. It should be a penalty, not a reward.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,360 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    ACtually after some thoughts i had Bunny hopping is not a bug or exploit. MOving forward backwards left and right also can make a meelee power to miss. SHould we call those also unfair because they do not consume stamina ?

    I Will give an example from pve point of view. I CAN avoid an attack from a monster using meelee powers just moving to left or right or backwards is also that a bug ?:)
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    @kalina311 take my advice (and personal experience) and disregard his input. Same person who argued with me that courage breaker+smoke bomb is not a broken, OP combo, and equally as broken as SE, and now its the meta in top premades.
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User

    Yep, the meta copied from PC players :lol:

    Pretty sure "the guy" that is mentioning "meta" in "top premades" really has no clue what a "top premade" really is (he also seems to have an unhealthy fascination with me as well). CB+SB troll rogue is annoying against certain classes (primarily dodgeless ones like GF, GWF, SW). Combat HR in combination with this nonsense is what all the qq is about. Fix combat and these guys will disappear. None of this is on topic however, so back to foolish bunnies who like to break their keyboards/controllers and or give themselves carpel tunnel syndrome.

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  • w1ckc1tyw1ckc1ty Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    As an HR I've jump straffed forever, a moving target is always harder to track. That's pvp 101 in any game.
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    @sh00termcl0vin you should know the top premades well, as they're they ones incinerating your squad on a regular basis. If it helps, I'm referring to Stunner and Vex.

    No fascination with you, just calling out the facts as I see them (here and in zone chat). Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I do not. In the previous case I provided a specific example why.

    @xsayajinx1 yes, much is copied from PC players largely due to the content being released earlier along with the availability of an analysis tool. Beyond that, and you may appreciate, we have a guy on the front page of xbox pvp (CW) who swears he is sent from god, but really his character is the direct byproduct of being corrected, over and over, on how his character should be built by @kalina311. (Bunny hopping was included in that advice.)
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    @d4rkh0rs3

    Yet you feel compelled to respond to every post that I put up and yell in zone chat whenever we are in a game.... hmmm.

    Actually I have beaten them before, as well as played with them. The pvp community is so small at this point there really isn't any competition left. Also we don't have a "squad", I have a couple friends that I play with and usually just random people we pick up when we want to play, either from my friends list or random pvp games. Once again though like I said keep talking about things you know nothing about and flame baiting.

    Back on topic, someone mentioned hit boxes here not moving when you jump. In other games like FPS' your hitbox relates to where you are standing. In this game I can hit someone by targeting their hitbox on the ground while they are in mid air. This diminishes any idea of using jump as a dodge mechanic.

    image
    Post edited by sh00termcl0vin on
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  • indylolindylol Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    Idk about the rest of this thread but i jump in PvP on my GF to land crushing surges on the run for extra dps I wouldn't otherwise be landing.

    Also you jump behind people as it was mentioned above to make yourself more difficult to target. Console players who play on low sensitivity look like they're doing a U turn in a semi, and are constantly chasing your character just to get their cursor on you. On PC you would call these folk "keyboard turners."

    Lastly the hidden "dodge" mechanic in jumping isn't a true dodge, its a way to slip your character's model farther away from an attack causing it to sometimes trigger without doing any damage, a great example of this is anytime you've heard a GF's Anvil go off but you got just far enough that it didn't register any damage.
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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    You can also evaDE encounter and at will just by walking if you mobility is high enough
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  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User

    Jumping in pvp while in combat does nothing. Players used to do it with the ambush ring to attack without breaking stealth (specifically wizards) because you could fire off encounter powers while maintaining movement to keep the ambush effect going. Since the ring has been changed this isn't really a thing anymore, but some players keep doing it either out of force of habit or because they think it's cool.

    For TRs at least, there is a very old smart tactic of jumping in between attacks that still has some use to this day. Its not a huge advantage and it isn't nerfworthy but it is benificial. Its particularly useful for things like duelist's flurry and melee encounters as it allows you to lunge fowards a little bit and makes you less likely to miss. It can also be done with cloud of steel and ranged attacks as a mild chase aid though this may not be as useful in laggy conditions or if you are slower than your opponent. The same benifit you get by jumping fowards can be gained just by moving fowards too, the only real difference is that the jumping looks cooler than the movement version.
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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    I love to jump and begin gloaming strike, mainly because if I use it standing the enemy can walk out of range with ease... it starts casting whilet you are moving forward in the air.. major bonus.. try it on orcas as well... buys you time to hit and run :smile:
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  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User

    Can we do something about the bunny hopping? Make jumping use stamina? Right now it has a built in dodge mechanic. People are currently exploiting the mechanic and jumping around everywhere. CW's jumping with elven battle have infinite stamina for infinite dodges. Is this as intended? It's kind of silly the the game encourages a bunch of high level pvpers to jump around like morons on the battle field.

    Solution: Make jumping use stamina. 2 jumps and your bar is gone? or just remove the dodge mechanic from jumping. If anything someone attacked in the midair should get proned like they are knocked off a mount or something. Just saying.

    I'm reposting this as something weird happened and one of my posts appears to have vanished off the face of the earth after I tried to edit out a mistake:

    Hell no to making jumping cost stamina, that's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If jumping has a bug with it that is causing CWs to gain infinite stamina, its the bug that needs fixing, not the jumping.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
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  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    @clonkyo1 -1 To your Idea

    a full stacked T. negation does not increase stamina regen (increase in dodges) it increases incoming healing and recovery and adds to DR

    Locking people to the ground for .2 second is a terrible idea due to different ping times on the server
    major advantage going to those with lower ping

    also given the nodes and steps are meant to be climbed and jumped up when attacking the point
    especially on the smaller pvp map is a second reason why the rooting on jump is a terrible idea
    they already artificially lock our mobility when attacking now you to want to lock our mobility when jumping as well just lol dude

    how about a .2 second pause when ever you move or walk in any direction sounds ridiculous right ??
    just like your proposal

    your proposal also means no fighting defensively or in retreat also with (scrubs ) people already using stamina drains
    ( which the community agree are toxic) you guys want to artificially cap stamina regeneration and effectiveness and jumping even more ?? LOL so its even easier to kill pugs and they cant get away >

    you just want to create artificial lag and stuttering for nothing ...the server already are laggy enough
    combat should be smooth and fluid

    so you are saying its(jumping ) VITAL to some classes but should be nerfed... which is it ?you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here chose a side and stick with it lol

    also this would be for PVE too right LOL so all those dungeons / levels with jumping puzzles and blocks
    are now that much harder or impossible right>

    powers that root/lock the player for increased duration (longer casting animations / telegraphing ) tend to be and should be more powerful then ones that dont (and are fast) and are(should be) avoidable

    nice try ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
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