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Dungeon Key Changes



  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    Always thought the chest peek thing was a bug. Too bad it's taken this long to fix it since people now expect that is WAI.
    Don't worry everyone, they'll make it up to you with ... fishing! :wink:
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    Again, another reminder that while you're absolutely free to share your anger, outrage, disappointment or whatever HAMSTER you want, please keep the posts within the boundaries set by the forum guidelines.

    In particular, we still take the following rule seriously, and will continue to enforce it:

    Harassing Material
    You may not create posts which contain material that is repetitively insulting, defaming and/or otherwise harassing any other user and/or any PWE employee, officer and/or director.

    Thank you.

    i am sorry i will tone it down with the quotes =D
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User

    Stopped playing NW with the intro of Mod 10. I'm just popping in occasionally to see if there's been a sea change yet that makes it worth considering playing NW again.

    Based on this announcement - it's going to be a long wait.

    Thanks Cryptic!

    I have more $$$ for coffee and pizza, cause I ain't spending diddly on NW. Starbucks and Papa John's send their regards as well.

    Get some real pizza : \
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    lets also talk about this....... we'll be using 2-3x as many keys and they think -50zen will placate us? rofl! cut the cost by 2/3 (100 zen for 5 keys) and you MIGHT .... MIGHT keep some of your playerbase but I doubt it!

    +1 and make it 100 zen for 10 keys
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    lets also talk about this....... we'll be using 2-3x as many keys and they think -50zen will placate us? rofl! cut the cost by 2/3 (100 zen for 5 keys) and you MIGHT .... MIGHT keep some of your playerbase but I doubt it!

    They can reduce the cost of all keys to make current rewards, well, feel rewarding and/or increase the average loot to make this change work. I agree that just marginally cutting the cost of Zen keys is inadequate.

    The developers do read the forums. Here's to hoping they take some of this player feedback into account before Mod 10.5 ships.

    make keys take 20 seconds to make, have cost increased for campaign made keys and make the zen key cost 100 zen for 10 keys. in my opinion thats not a bad idea.

    ...campaign keys
    either increase cost and reduce time spent making it (ideal)
    or reduce cost and leave time alone
    or reduce cost and reduce time spent making it (more ideal this is the best offer)

    the main problem is we only see them talking about a nerf and not a way to reward for the loss. like gateway being dead, we got a terrible companion that very few will use.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 215 Arc User
    Every time NW's devs take something away and replace it with something worse or nothing at all I think "maybe this is the last time".

    I'm always wrong.

    I'm not paying real money to receive the loot at the end of a dungeon. Period, full stop. There is no dialog on this. I paid to receive that loot with my effort in running the content.

    I see a lot more Diablo 3 in my future. (Or maybe even Diablo 4, though I haven't checked the rumor mill on that today.)
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • bbrightstonebbrightstone Member Posts: 24 Arc User

    Everything will have double or triple gating, everything will be reviewed in terms of cash shop and where or how they can get more money.

    This is the end of this game.. that is clear, once a game is only about the cash shop and not about actual quality of game, there is zero reason to play it anymore.

    Run , run from this game, you cannot in good honesty stay after this announcement.


    With this key change they finally went p2w all the way. If you take FBI as an excemple, there is absolutely no way now, to get the particular loot you are looking for (e.g. Relic Armor) from a dungeon, UNLESS you spend actual money. You literally have to pay, to get a chance at the loot. Any other way, all you get is a wooden spoon.

    My advice follows Silverkelt: Take your money and run! Don't hand the money-grubbing HAMSTER of Cryptic any more of your hard earned cash.

    lirithiel said:

    Can anyone suggest me a new game to start downloading? Preferably one with no grind :p

    Paladins http://store.steampowered.com/app/444090/
    Fractured Space http://store.steampowered.com/app/310380/?l=german

    7 Days to Die (horror, crafting, zombies)
    Path os Exile (like Diablo)
    Paladins (the poor's overwatch)
    Borderlands (old but gold)
    TERA (uhh its TERA)
    TERA is an even bigger grind fest than Neverwinter. Sure, it's scale is much larger, but if you think refining a 4 pieces of gear and 4 artifacts is bad, wait till you try to use alkahest on every single piece of gear you have. I quit 2 years ago after getting a 60 of each class best in slot gear wise and failing to rank 14 a single piece of gear after 100s and 100s of attempts. Screw that.
  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 799 Arc User
    I've worked in software development for the past 25 years. That has to be one of the dumbest, idiotic things ever said to customers. Its one thing if there was an unintended side effect. But an actual Decline button isn't a side effect. And I simply refuse to buy that after 3 years the decline was always supposed to consume the key. I thought at one time there was a bug where the decline consumed a key and it was fixed so it no longer consumed it. This has to be me more for the XBox/PS4 crowd that they feel they can pull this on that its a "bug". But I ain't buying that.
  • talon1970talon1970 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 152 Arc User
    So please bring back the bug...eerrrrm i mean feature, while entering a dungeon, pressing "J", looking if it is worth running elol, cn whatever.
    So if noone in the party has the chance of good loot, we can leave....reenter...leave...reenter until someone is yelling "Lets do the run this time, orcus shard, lost horn (something else witch is worth doing that) is showing up..gogogogo!!!"

    Sometimes i am still thinking: "You was an extremly idiot, when Mod1 (Sharandar) went live and i was refusing for myself, opening the old Nightmare Lockboxes get an Mystic Nightmare for free (i had 4 or 5 keys) and nothing happened to the people, bc Cryptic announced later, that was their own fault."
    (veteran players will know what i mean)
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    i know no one will give 2 cents if i leave and once my vip is up i will likely spend my time somewhere else. was fun playing the game made tons of friends but its time i move on. gl all for those who stay. if i do play it will be an 10 minutes a day or so to say hi to friends.

    their is a low chance of me leaving permanently, but if i do leave it just means i am gonna spend less time playing.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    I really like this game you know? Why do you try to make it a miserable experience?

    A few days ago I actually bought a few Legendary Dragon keys to see if I could speed up the process of getting the Relic Armor at FBI. The recent comment by the dev about vivified makes Relic Armor a decent proposition even without planning to empower it and it is the only power-crit option for the HR in the game.
    So I bought my first 5 keys and went farming the dungeon. Keep in mind that at FBI declining is basically not an option if you look for the armor due to the chest-in-a-chest structure so I knew that I was going to spend my keys in any case.
    At your announced rate of 50 ZEN/key the cost of a key in in-game currency is 25k ad and a few days of waiting for the backlog.
    If the average loot value in the chest would be around 25k I think I would be willing to buy the keys and use them. In average I would not lose and I would still get the option to collect the armor over time.
    The problem is that the loot is not even remotely worth 25k ad in average, so I realized that buying a Legendary Dragon key is a losing proposition over time at FBI and I will not buy them anymore.

    Let's look at the other dungeons/skirmishes: in average there is absolutely nothing close to 25k ad in the chest. Even looking at the most expensive artifacts, the drop rate is so low that using the key doesn't make any sense. In most cases it is a 15-20k ad loss for each key in the remote hope to get something decent. Doesn't make sense... almost nobody is going to buy legendary keys. If an artifact doesn't drop in average every 20-25 runs there's no reason to do that. And if it would, artifacts prices would go down so it's a loop.

    Something like a rank 8 enchantment with a 50% drop rate would start to make the thing interesting for example.

    Most of the money I spent on this game has been spent for cosmetics/utility reasons. I spent money for an account-wide purple mount (really good value on the utility side), I spent on the promotion to get the Lord's Armored Polar Bear because it was cool when I already had a purple mount, spent money to buy an Owlbear Cub because it was sooo cute, spent money for VIP because of the utility stuff (teleport, bank access, anvil), spent money on the Black Ice pick and the Master Trowel to speed up the grind a bit (although in hindsight the trowel has a much lower value than the pick). I would spend money on more transmutes/fashion/tattoes/weapon-armor visual effects because they are cool and make my character more unique, I would spend money on an housing and items to be put there, I would definitely spend money on Foundry adventures of high quality because I get more stories to experience and not always the same dungeons.

    But right now it seems that the main options you are looking at are:
    - lockbox keys (I don't like playing the AH and that's the only way to extract value from keys, I want to play a D&D game)
    - legendary dragon keys (value is not there and it's so underwhelming to buy a key....)
    - bag space (can you think of something more boring than seeing a few storage spaces coming down the line, woooo?)
    - convert into ad for refining items (utterly boring again especially at high ranks in PVE where while rank 12 is better than rank 11 in reality nobody cares because rank 8-9s are enough to complete any content...)

    Everytime I start looking at my credit card I think "do I really need it?" and nowadays the answer is "no". There is pretty much nothing that has that "ooomph" value that will push me to open the wallet, except possibly renewing VIP. I have a pure Dread enchant on my main, ready to be pushed to transcendent but I don't have a coal at the moment. Would I buy one? No. It's so boring to buy a coal and the push from pure to transcendent adds a small effect that I'll probably not be able to appreciate without looking into ACT.

    You're losing the D&D value here, the story, the exploration, the marvel, the Magic, and transforming this game into a grindy number-adding game like dozens out there. I personally would not pay for little number adding... I'll stay in for the time being as long as some friends will, just because I enjoy their company (but their number is dwindling) and if they leave I'll move as well...

    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • eselweihereselweiher Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 17 Arc User
    The Questlogfeature <3 still shows the loot of CN. But not the right one..that s a bug - already showed orcus shard, got ring +1/2 instead :(
  • swoods74swoods74 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    So let's see...daily grinds to get boons so i am capable of running dungeons to get better gear to run higher dungeons that i no longer have a reason to run because costs too much for the keys to get through RNG..hmm seems like i have no reason to play after all.
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    To reiterate.

    Nobody is paying 25k AD for a period and some salvage.


    As much as everyone is like 'you won't quit' if this goes through its gonna have to be the end for me. My pockets aren't deep enough for this.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • rui012#8633 rui012 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    If you do REALLY want to remove your whatever you called is as a feature or a bug that wont hurt us players for grinding wise i have a suggestion:

    1. Make it 25 zen per key
    2. Just place 1 chest per dungeon, Epic keys for epic chest on T2 dungeon e.g. ETOS, CC and Wolf Den, and just campaign keys for the other dungeons, if possible.
    3. Make all Bosses drops RP stones from common up to epic ones,
    4. Make those dungeons specific artifacts have a chance to drop from bosses for example. ELoL, 1st Boss have a chance to drop the belt part, 2nd Boss the necklace part, and Lostmauth have a chance to drop all 3 of those,
    5. Make those Salvagable Gears a higher chance to drop on bosses.
    6. Last but not the least for the Campaign Chest, Consider it as a bonus at the end of the dungeon that has a higher chance (like 10 to 20%) to drop those artifacts with guaranteed salvage gear and rp stones, Now you can leve the timer as it is for those campaign keys.

    And guys feel free to point out what did i miss or what i have said wrong it is just my suggestion so i dont mind your opinions about this thanks :)
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    While they are nerfing things... just make every chest in the game require a key or let a tr lock pick them for the party. Yes even the mimics should require a key to open them.. (angry face)
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • cornbeard#3184 cornbeard Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    This is some Class A HAMSTER right here! Why not just use your usual solution and just remove dungeon chests altogether! Seriously, calling this a bug now? You're telling me that not only am I going to have to run 100,000 Castle NevergonnagetaSuddenPrecision it's gonna be 20 hours per key as well now because I'm gonna get +1 lifesteal rings 99.2% of the time? I guess on the upside it should make the backlog for AD even HAMSTER longer. Oh, wait, that's not good for the playerbase at all either. Why don't we just go for the usual "fix" and remove dungeon chests altogether.
  • cornbeard#3184 cornbeard Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    You forgot the P in HAMPSTER. GG
  • coldfire473coldfire473 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
    Are you HAMSTER kidding me?! I've played since the week of go live. I've weathered countless nerfs, changing strats and play style each time. I watched you kill off Gateway after the hours I had spent leveling up companions that I spent hours saving up the AD to buy that I literally never used again in game so that I could use them to play.

    And now this HAMSTER?! You claim you're fixing a BUG!? You make us spend 20 hours (burning campaign currency we spent probably 30 minutes average to get that can now not be used to develop our Guild Stronghold) to get a key that will get used for what? 3k AD and 2k AD worth of loot except for that 1 in 30 times we actually get something useful.

    Good job killing the end game for a lot of your players. Add me to the list that will, at most, log in for an hour or two every so often to run end game campaigns with the delirious hope that you'll reverse the decision at some future date so that it's worth actually coming back to playing regularly. I guess this is yet another on the huge pile of dead MMOs rotting away on my hard drive.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 518 Arc User
    Actually, the solution could be simple. Do not play FBI, Svardborg, ... at all. Abstain from attempting to become BiS. Do not buy any keys at all. Do not buy ANY Zen at all, either by real money or by ZAX. Hit them where is hurts. For a while at least. But it will not happen, because we tend to hope that we are the one in a million that beats the RNG.

    "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness." (The Architect)

    Aside of that, I really would like to know who made that decision. Because being a software developer myself, I refuse to believe that such a stupid decision - and even more, such an awkward attempt of an explanation - was made by a developer. (Not that it would change anything to know that...)
  • spelldazerspelldazer Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    Sounds to me like they want to redesign chest rewards to reward players who put money in the game and to do that, they first want to find out how many such players exist, meanwhile leveraging gambler's addiction by offering super lucrative rewards (price for now super rare rewards will skyrocket, justifying the cost of the lottery ticket...erm...key in the minds of some).

    The only real player action that has any worth here is to NOT buy keys and not open these toll boxes. Same as coalgate. If the playerbase can pull together to do that then there is a chance the rewards system will get a more favorable redesign.

    This is essentially the devs saying we can't give out better rewards because such rewards need to be rare to be appreciated/coveted by the players and we can't do that if the rewards can be (moderately) easy to farm.

    Is this change upsetting to me? Heck yeah. I was almost ready to put money in the game again for mod 10 on xbox. Now there's no way. I am relegating this game to the same level as AngryBirds on my mobile. Casual free-to-play only. Not worth a dime.
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    Most of what I feel can't be expressed in polite language. When the original decline option appeared in the dungeon chests, there were questions raised at the time, and it wasn't a bug. So YOU are lying to us. So my plan is simple. Not a $$ ever to PWE, and I'll warn anyone I deal with of this also.
  • cornbeard#3184 cornbeard Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I'm gonna press Shift+2 to decline your link, good sir.
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    This really makes you want to buy the VIP for the chest keys. I skimmed over a lot of this because I have serious work in the morning. From the looks of it there is a lot of rage quitting and players threatening to quit should the update continue. I assume, when I get home from work and run the update, I will be hearing crickets chirp in PE?

    I doubt it. In fact, I imagine most of you will be online tomorrow, because I see this every time. Tomorrow will come and go and the same people will be here ranting about this same stuff tomorrow. You are not ranting at the developers or the company but each other. The poor moderators are only players like you. You can rant at me, if you must, I am a database engineer but have nothing to do with Cryptic Studios. As far as I know, or care to know, Andy (who is on vacation) is some unpaid college intern.

    Don't get me wrong, changes like this upset all of us. The real way to get their attention, is to contact the correct people. Cryptic Studios and PWE want you to come here, vent, cool off, and return to the game. Why not take the time and some cell phone minutes to look up the HQ information and call someone. Moderators are not the bad guys, they are punching bags for Cryptic Studios. There is nothing illegal about contacting a company you have issues with and making yourself known and heard. Just be polite.

    Also if you don't wish to call or have the means to call, you can write to;
    Mr. Stephen D'angelo
    Chief Executive Officer
    980 University Avenue
    Building D
    Los Gatos, CA 95032-7620

    I imagine no one with paper and pen will bother to write a letter and send it. No calls will be made. Just more venting and in less than a month I will see many of these same players at the upcoming Masquerade of Liars.

    See you in the game tomorrow.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    lol, that was a good one :smiley:

    I literally logged in to post this. Each time it's getting bad, you guys are making it worse I grow to (almost) admire your stupidity and really idiotic actions in YOUR game. This is in fact a fun way to spend some time on the forums, grab a popcorn and enjoy a shitstorm that you unleash on your own HAMSTER hahha!

    Many of us are adult, working professionals and time and time again, we're shocked how can you do so much harm to your game and go away with it.

    How in the world, can anyone buy anything from you with ZEN? these guys really have to be newbies who have NO idea how much HAMSTER up this game is at the moment.

    Enjoy your ride, hope your end year sale bonus will go to HAMSTER, because that's exactly what you deserve.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    spideymt said:

    Sry...but i must ask: Did they ever take some of players feedback and changed any decission they made? Any of the last they made, like coals/closing gateway etc.? Can you give me just one thing they changed when the playerbase was upset like now?

    The developers do inform many decisions by reading the forums.

    The only situation that comes to mind where they reversed an unpopular decision that had already been made is when they planned to remove coalescent wards from invoking boxes. That was many moons ago.

    This has to be in the top 3 "players are upset en masse" occurrences. I'm hopeful that they'll reassess.

    The decision to remove a "peak" function for keys isn't unreasonable in and of itself but has to be accompanied by a broad reassessment of key cost and average loot. It certainly should not have been communicated as a bug fix but rather as a decision to change a long-standing design.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
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