FBI: Soulbinder or Hellbringer

schietindebux

I made some runs in FBI comparing Helbringer fury last days and afterwards Soulbinder fury today.
Hellbringer is fun to play , no argues, I really like it.
But, since I compared both trees and the performance in FBI I wanted to share my impression.
Beside the trashmobs, who are better handled by HB, there are 3 bosses, all single target, who needs to be focussed as good as possible.
Hellbringer setup is like WB, PoP, KF and permanent spamming Hellish rebuke. Flames of empowerment (18% buff) is a nice feature and using PoP 24% plus debuff it´s also nice.
But...after two runs with the old soulbinder setup, WB, SS, KF and immolation spirits my impression is: HB definitely can´t hold against this synergy of spamming Soulscorch and spirits, who are up near 24/7 and focus the target on top.
Pure striker classes are needed like supporter are. Hellbringer is something in between, but my favorite build to run FBI is SB fury by sure.
What are your experiences?

fernuu

One question - you tested it with bugged sparks only or earlier too?

schietindebux

fernuu said:

One question - you tested it with bugged sparks only or earlier too?

I respecced yesterday to SB fury, but I assure you my sparks did not run wild in the bossfights. Against single target they tend to not stack that crazy, against mobgroups they do. But even running trashmobs I did not reach high number since I casted SS right away. Till now I did about 12 FBI runs i would say, not more.

My post is subjective, an impression, since I did not run with a HB warlock.
I run 2 perfect buff-run with thefabricat as PVP-lock Hellbringer, afterwards I run mixed groups, no perfect buffer but most of them with OP, DC, GF or OP, DC, supporter.
Some runs against striker classes being Hellbringer, all fine, never was outnumbered that much as far as I rmember.
Till i did a run with an OP, DC and two CW´s. Both maxed in every aspect, them 4k+, me 3.5 about (I did respec to Hellbringer fury, full PVE in between).
Trashmobs was a simple win for the CW´s (normal) and the result will be even worse as Soulbinder.
But against single target they also took the "sausage from the plate" ending by getting outdamaged 2:1, I think them were SS thaum and MoF Thaum builds, damage sepc.
That´s painfull and I looked up for ACT. ACT shows me their desintegrate encounter hits with an average ammount of 400 to 500. My Killing flame only about 200-300, and my main damage Hellish rebuke is hitting with lower numbers.
As SB I can litterally spam SS and have Immolation spirits on top most time. One SS on a dummy plus WC consume is about 150k damage average. being buffed I can´t tell because ACT also counts the DOT, but Immolation spirits also hits like a truck, in a group 100k plus average as far as I remember (and they do cast very fast).
In the last bossfight I can´t use TT (kills the iceshards immidiately) as a Hellbringer , so no good daily available, effectiveness goes down.

In the sum I am pretty sure SB is the better build for focus damage, I can´t compensate SS and spirits with my selfbuffs from FoE and PoP using an at will and I also can´t run TT in the last fight. ( I buff with infernal wrath, dark revelry, my dred as soon it will get to 11 and with my companion http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Sellsword)
Another impression, AT-Wills do scale different than encounter do? The base damage from Hellish rebuke is pretty high but no chance to get near SS. And one more, Immolation spirits apply lesser curse all time, didn´t know.
I also think morderous flame is wasted atm (maybe for PVP) but I do better taking darkrevelry and brutal curse or helltouched i guess. Can´t tell wich is the better one...maybe helltouched since it´s up most time.
Next what I gonna do is switch to dread enchant since all my damage is encounterdamage and no at will (HB= vorp imo)..and than I gonna ask that nasty CW for a run (he was a pretty skilled one I am sure, a frenchman i guess)

fernuu

Catch me in game - I'd like to make some runs with both SW in team

schietindebux

Sure, my char is Quallo ingame

stpensive

Would be very interested to hear the results guys...

fernuu

I will try to catch Quallo later and record run

schietindebux

working all day, tomorrow i guess

fernuu

We did SB+HB run, but couldn't complete it fluently to record and post it (2xSW, 2xDC, OP). We can share ACT up to 2nd boss (later I used Fabled to make it easier):

Overall:


Fernu:


Quallo:

mamalion1234

fernuu said:

We did SB+HB run, but couldn't complete it fluently to record and post it (2xSW, 2xDC, OP). We can share ACT up to 2nd boss (later I used Fabled to make it easier):

Overall:


Fernu:


Quallo:

Pillar of power make owlbear hit non stop with its dot i bet 1 smop fernu.

fernuu

Yes, and I wrote it (in other topics).
And I wrote in on preview bug notes before Mod10 was released - Pillar of Power has 0% crit chance.

fernuu

mamalion1234 said:

fernuu said:

We did SB+HB run, but couldn't complete it fluently to record and post it (2xSW, 2xDC, OP). We can share ACT up to 2nd boss (later I used Fabled to make it easier):

Overall:


Fernu:


Quallo:

Pillar of power make owlbear hit non stop with its dot i bet 1 smop fernu.

But that's no important (kind off) - take a look at max hits from each encounter/daily.

xs13red

How does Quallo have creeping death while being Soul Binder? Is it a TT reaction?

flowcyto

xs13red said:

How does Quallo have creeping death while being Soul Binder? Is it a TT reaction?

Creeping Death is Fury's capstone (which generally is the best overall feat tree for personal dps), so it can be taken by either paragon path.

Oh, and note that this discussion is in regards to PC players w/ mod10 (noticed ur xbox tag). The old Creeping Death you guys have is still Fury's capstone, but only works w/ Necrotic damage (in mod10 it's been changed to proc from both Fire and Necrotic damage, thankfully).

schietindebux

fernuu said:

mamalion1234 said:

fernuu said:

We did SB+HB run, but couldn't complete it fluently to record and post it (2xSW, 2xDC, OP). We can share ACT up to 2nd boss (later I used Fabled to make it easier):

Overall:


Fernu:


Quallo:

Pillar of power make owlbear hit non stop with its dot i bet 1 smop fernu.

But that's no important (kind off) - take a look at max hits from each encounter/daily.

Effectiveness and buffs are definitely better regarding HB.
Maybe we can do another one having a more consistent run
I can monitor the Bossfights that next time, to get an impression about focus damage.

I added some screenshots vs dummy.
First two show my effectiveness using immolation spirits and no TT, getting buffed by companion (10% wicked strike) and either WC or Lesser curse, ending at 119% effectiveness max.





next one shows me using excluisively TT and no IS. Maybe that´s why Immolation spirit is wasted. TT boost my effectiveness at 250% average (>double damage), I also monitored >400% spikes, wherever they came from--> maybe due to target low HP?
Now add PoP buff and FoE buff.

xs13red

Sorry, brain HAMSTER on creeping death. Was thinking puppet and fury instead soul vs hell.

fernuu

schietindebux said:

fernuu said:

mamalion1234 said:

fernuu said:

We did SB+HB run, but couldn't complete it fluently to record and post it (2xSW, 2xDC, OP). We can share ACT up to 2nd boss (later I used Fabled to make it easier):

Overall:


Fernu:


Quallo:

Pillar of power make owlbear hit non stop with its dot i bet 1 smop fernu.

But that's no important (kind off) - take a look at max hits from each encounter/daily.

Effectiveness and buffs are definitely better regarding HB.
Maybe we can do another one having a more consistent run
I can monitor the Bossfights that next time, to get an impression about focus damage.

I added some screenshots vs dummy.
First two show my effectiveness using immolation spirits and no TT, getting buffed by companion (10% wicked strike) and either WC or Lesser curse, ending at 119% effectiveness max.





next one shows me using excluisively TT and no IS. Maybe that´s why Immolation spirit is wasted. TT boost my effectiveness at 250% average (>double damage), I also monitored >400% spikes, wherever they came from--> maybe due to target low HP?
Now add PoP buff and FoE buff.

Sure, we can make more runs! o/

btlower

null
Fernu, did you make changes to your gear now that you're running the owlbear? Pardon my ignorance but don't you need very low crit for owlbear?

havocbuddha

From what I can tell btlower it's the only change and it's purely for piller of power u build the same. Sence pillar bugged and can't crit.

btlower

Ah, would consider getting an owlbear, but I wonder if this is going to be another "fix" down the road.

kolatmaster

btlower said:

Ah, would consider getting an owlbear, but I wonder if this is going to be another "fix" down the road.

The above .gif represents the fact that... We honestly don't know if it will get changed. I, personally, had the Owlbear since it came out. Speaking XYZ AD on it now, is entirely up to the individual player, but it is a gamble, that's for sure.

schietindebux

@ defiantone99 said:
"Now the SW multi-procs the Owlbear Cub in exploitable fashion like the Paladin's Burning Light has been doing. "

@terramak said:
" @defiantone99 - Thanks for the info! I think I was still stuck in thinking it was a "piercing damage" type issue and not a "rapid proc" type issue."

Arms of hadar were fixed pretty fast...so funny, watching a dungeon boss being "knocked out".
I did enjoy being the best cc class for 2 weeks

btfd

I'm not able to do FBI but somehow I too experienced more damage with me being SB in the other dungeons with 3k ilvl. Don't know what I'm doing wrong :P

whyrat

I've been debating this, not yet wanting to spend another respec.

I went HB when mod 10 came out, because BT was borked. It was fun, but I missed the BT heal. I was willing to give up Pop for it (new pop is what it always should have been, but it becomes an always slotted power, and there's so many other encounters to play with!). I was more sad to give up hellish rebuke.

Cut to a few fun days of immortality, then BT set back to "normal". I was wrongly thinking not to respec b/c I read power of the nine *bells* feat as though that gave the shared dmg buff from pop, and couldn't pick up dark revelry, creeping death, and potnh. .. but thanks to chatter in /ninehells learned that's just a poorly written tool tip (which by now I should know better). So maybe I'll go back, but I've fallen in my old habits as drag my feet.

And then, sharpedge gives us his wonderful TC / debuff treatise. So I think: if one can stack / time buffs, debuffs, TC right, and then burst damage SS on that Uber TC, that'd be neat. And oh boy is it! Too bad I can't add pop to TC without giving up SS burst. So, single target I'm inclined to think SB can compete. For multi-target, well, it's hard to beat pop + arms + FB + arms. SB can bring up a third AoE after an arms + FB +arms rotation, but really you're looking at curse bite or dreadtheft, neither of which make up for that 3-cast rotation being ~24% buffed by pop. Curse bite is fun, but dreadtheft is by far more effective. Harrow storm and wraith shadow I wouldn't consider. For clearing trash you want damage upfront (except maybe in FBI, but I don't recommend building for one dungeon).

This is without an owlbear... if I had one I'd already be HB spec again...

mrshabok

Looks like they Fixed TC to be only 20% instead of 40% for the realease to Xbox....

fernuu

If you rely on patch notes - stop. For PC they also claimed to nerf it to 20% - they did not

mrshabok

Ahhh, good to know. I mean oops..*cough*..they would never do that.

treesclimber

What's the point of pop no crit? And arms of hadar are clearly too powerfull, taking appart long battles, tried curse bite and harrowstorm and even discarding 4k power over recovery it's not justifiable the investment.

hadestemplar

fernuu said:

If you rely on patch notes - stop. For PC they also claimed to nerf it to 20% - they did not

mrshabok said:

Ahhh, good to know. I mean oops..*cough*..they would never do that.

IF u want keep that way, its better not speak about that. Or Developers will decide to FIX(nerf) it.

mrshabok

bloodyspamer said:

fernuu said:

If you rely on patch notes - stop. For PC they also claimed to nerf it to 20% - they did not

mrshabok said:

Ahhh, good to know. I mean oops..*cough*..they would never do that.

IF u want keep that way, its better not speak about that. Or Developers will decide to FIX(nerf) it.

lol true, but they're so sloppy, no QA at all, it doesn't matter. It's like playing wack-a-mole with them and bugs/exploits. Hit one, two more pop up. It will continue this way until thy have a real QA team that actually knows the game.

kolatmaster

We'll just see how it goes, and adapt accordingly as things evolve...