ALSO the rainbow logic i do not understand it. I like How the 2 of the same class for 1 reason. FOR example if i am renegade cw and the other one is thaumaturge. THE perfect example can be for paladin( that i believe is the reason allows 2 of same class). IF THEY want to be the healer and the tank why a rainbow rule to ruin their premade team?
Rainbow logic is quite simple. Two of any class is imbalanced. If you have two Combat HRs, they will kill your team in seconds, if you have 2 DC's noone dies. If you have two pallies they are immovable unkillable rocks who contest nodes and make it difficult to kill teammates, if you have 2 TRs then you are constantly in Smokebomb and Couragebreaker, if you have two CW's then you will never not be repelled, oppressed or Ice stormed off node, etc, etc, etc.
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Yeah, and less potential for abusing whatever class is OP that mod. There have been mods where guilds would literally run 5 of the most OP class (TRs in mod 5 for example). This made PVP unbearably boring for any other class. Limiting it to two of a class, while definitely an improvement, did not completely solve the issue.
I see no reason why rainbows should not be the preferred Qing method and required except in a lobby style of PVP Q where both teams have to agree on the match and the comp to begin with.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
ALSO the rainbow logic i do not understand it. I like How the 2 of the same class for 1 reason. FOR example if i am renegade cw and the other one is thaumaturge. THE perfect example can be for paladin( that i believe is the reason allows 2 of same class). IF THEY want to be the healer and the tank why a rainbow rule to ruin their premade team?
Rainbow logic is quite simple. Two of any class is imbalanced. If you have two Combat HRs, they will kill your team in seconds, if you have 2 DC's noone dies. If you have two pallies they are immovable unkillable rocks who contest nodes and make it difficult to kill teammates, if you have 2 TRs then you are constantly in Smokebomb and Couragebreaker, if you have two CW's then you will never not be repelled, oppressed or Ice stormed off node, etc, etc, etc.
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
ok then. IS something else stopped me to form any premade to fight a premade its called swift lion. IF we compare that mount power to a wheel of elements wheel is nothing. WITH wheel you take the risk to get the wrong buff. Enemy can make you to take the wrong buff or enemy can make you to get nothing, IN other hand the lion wouldnt bother me if was individual for 1 player the shield the caster. BUT here is the issue no matter how your enemy team will perform to kill 1 target someone will pop that thing and protect the allies. THAT i am sorry i cant call it skill and should stay out of premades as the drains did.
YOU complain for immortality and the same time you form teams with full lions lol.
ALSO the rainbow logic i do not understand it. I like How the 2 of the same class for 1 reason. FOR example if i am renegade cw and the other one is thaumaturge. THE perfect example can be for paladin( that i believe is the reason allows 2 of same class). IF THEY want to be the healer and the tank why a rainbow rule to ruin their premade team?
Rainbow logic is quite simple. Two of any class is imbalanced. If you have two Combat HRs, they will kill your team in seconds, if you have 2 DC's noone dies. If you have two pallies they are immovable unkillable rocks who contest nodes and make it difficult to kill teammates, if you have 2 TRs then you are constantly in Smokebomb and Couragebreaker, if you have two CW's then you will never not be repelled, oppressed or Ice stormed off node, etc, etc, etc.
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
ok then. IS something else stopped me to form any premade to fight a premade its called swift lion. IF we compare that mount power to a wheel of elements wheel is nothing. WITH wheel you take the risk to get the wrong buff. Enemy can make you to take the wrong buff or enemy can make you to get nothing, IN other hand the lion wouldnt bother me if was individual for 1 player the shield the caster. BUT here is the issue no matter how your enemy team will perform to kill 1 target someone will pop that thing and protect the allies. THAT i am sorry i cant call it skill and should stay out of premades as the drains did.
YOU complain for immortality and the same time you form teams with full lions lol.
Firstly, let me restate, this is supposed to be a discussion on whether you think there should be a Premade lobby style Q for PVP. This isn't a dissect my guild, PVP, and all the practices type discussion really, that wasn't the intent anyway.
Now, if you think Legendary mounts should be disabled in PVP or in Premades, that's completely fine with me. I have no problems with that and you're entitled to your opinion.
I do feel the need to explain something though, it seems we need to clear this up before we go any further. I did not put the Lion in the game, I know that may come as a surprise to you. The devs actually did. Now, in PVP guilds we aim to be BIS. We try to completely min max our toons for the Best PVP outcomes. The Lions, as you stated, are BIS for PVP because they offer multiple advantages. I.E. a knockback, a prone, and temporary HP. These are all extremely strong elements for survivability, CC chains, as well as for capping nodes.
If all the teams I played with had Lions, I'd be fine with that, because they are BIS for PVP. However, it is unfortunately untrue that I "form teams with full lions". I can't remember ever having a team like that tbh. There are multiple people from my guild that have lions on one of their toons but not all of us do and usually there may be one or two members in my party who have a lion at all.
As far as for feeling like because I think that end game BIS players are often too survivable that I should not condone the use of the Lion mount, I also complained about these Lion mounts in those forum discussions. I talked about endless consumption with high lifesteal, tons of heals from mount insignias, healing wheel, and drowned weapons. I use those as well. I will use, and condone that my guild use, what is BIS. However, I will come here and tell the Devs what I think is too strong and needs to be adjusted. There is no inconsistency in what I have always done.
If you're comparing the Lions to Drains I don't know what to tell you mate, you're on your own there. Drains prevent you from moving and using any dailies. They turn you into a punching bag with no way to use your classes abilities at all. If you feel like a prone and some temporary HP is similar to that.. well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
ALSO the rainbow logic i do not understand it. I like How the 2 of the same class for 1 reason. FOR example if i am renegade cw and the other one is thaumaturge. THE perfect example can be for paladin( that i believe is the reason allows 2 of same class). IF THEY want to be the healer and the tank why a rainbow rule to ruin their premade team?
Rainbow logic is quite simple. Two of any class is imbalanced. If you have two Combat HRs, they will kill your team in seconds, if you have 2 DC's noone dies. If you have two pallies they are immovable unkillable rocks who contest nodes and make it difficult to kill teammates, if you have 2 TRs then you are constantly in Smokebomb and Couragebreaker, if you have two CW's then you will never not be repelled, oppressed or Ice stormed off node, etc, etc, etc.
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
ok then. IS something else stopped me to form any premade to fight a premade its called swift lion. IF we compare that mount power to a wheel of elements wheel is nothing. WITH wheel you take the risk to get the wrong buff. Enemy can make you to take the wrong buff or enemy can make you to get nothing, IN other hand the lion wouldnt bother me if was individual for 1 player the shield the caster. BUT here is the issue no matter how your enemy team will perform to kill 1 target someone will pop that thing and protect the allies. THAT i am sorry i cant call it skill and should stay out of premades as the drains did.
YOU complain for immortality and the same time you form teams with full lions lol.
Firstly, let me restate, this is supposed to be a discussion on whether you think there should be a Premade lobby style Q for PVP. This isn't a dissect my guild, PVP, and all the practices type discussion really, that wasn't the intent anyway.
Now, if you think Legendary mounts should be disabled in PVP or in Premades, that's completely fine with me. I have no problems with that and you're entitled to your opinion.
I do feel the need to explain something though, it seems we need to clear this up before we go any further. I did not put the Lion in the game, I know that may come as a surprise to you. The devs actually did. Now, in PVP guilds we aim to be BIS. We try to completely min max our toons for the Best PVP outcomes. The Lions, as you stated, are BIS for PVP because they offer multiple advantages. I.E. a knockback, a prone, and temporary HP. These are all extremely strong elements for survivability, CC chains, as well as for capping nodes.
If all the teams I played with had Lions, I'd be fine with that, because they are BIS for PVP. However, it is unfortunately untrue that I "form teams with full lions". I can't remember ever having a team like that tbh. There are multiple people from my guild that have lions on one of their toons but not all of us do and usually there may be one or two members in my party who have a lion at all.
As far as for feeling like because I think that end game BIS players are often too survivable that I should not condone the use of the Lion mount, I also complained about these Lion mounts in those forum discussions. I talked about endless consumption with high lifesteal, tons of heals from mount insignias, healing wheel, and drowned weapons. I use those as well. I will use, and condone that my guild use, what is BIS. However, I will come here and tell the Devs what I think is too strong and needs to be adjusted. There is no inconsistency in what I have always done.
If you're comparing the Lions to Drains I don't know what to tell you mate, you're on your own there. Drains prevent you from moving and using any dailies. They turn you into a punching bag with no way to use your classes abilities at all. If you feel like a prone and some temporary HP is similar to that.. well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Using ring of ambush for the same reason why it called trick cheat etc.. A player can stay longer alive which is is important can one rotae through stealth. LETS go back to lion you said prone. AFTER a prone a player cannot resist or deflect.
DOEs the ambush bothers because is farmable item everyone can get?
ALSO the rainbow logic i do not understand it. I like How the 2 of the same class for 1 reason. FOR example if i am renegade cw and the other one is thaumaturge. THE perfect example can be for paladin( that i believe is the reason allows 2 of same class). IF THEY want to be the healer and the tank why a rainbow rule to ruin their premade team?
Rainbow logic is quite simple. Two of any class is imbalanced. If you have two Combat HRs, they will kill your team in seconds, if you have 2 DC's noone dies. If you have two pallies they are immovable unkillable rocks who contest nodes and make it difficult to kill teammates, if you have 2 TRs then you are constantly in Smokebomb and Couragebreaker, if you have two CW's then you will never not be repelled, oppressed or Ice stormed off node, etc, etc, etc.
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
ok then. IS something else stopped me to form any premade to fight a premade its called swift lion. IF we compare that mount power to a wheel of elements wheel is nothing. WITH wheel you take the risk to get the wrong buff. Enemy can make you to take the wrong buff or enemy can make you to get nothing, IN other hand the lion wouldnt bother me if was individual for 1 player the shield the caster. BUT here is the issue no matter how your enemy team will perform to kill 1 target someone will pop that thing and protect the allies. THAT i am sorry i cant call it skill and should stay out of premades as the drains did.
YOU complain for immortality and the same time you form teams with full lions lol.
Firstly, let me restate, this is supposed to be a discussion on whether you think there should be a Premade lobby style Q for PVP. This isn't a dissect my guild, PVP, and all the practices type discussion really, that wasn't the intent anyway.
Now, if you think Legendary mounts should be disabled in PVP or in Premades, that's completely fine with me. I have no problems with that and you're entitled to your opinion.
I do feel the need to explain something though, it seems we need to clear this up before we go any further. I did not put the Lion in the game, I know that may come as a surprise to you. The devs actually did. Now, in PVP guilds we aim to be BIS. We try to completely min max our toons for the Best PVP outcomes. The Lions, as you stated, are BIS for PVP because they offer multiple advantages. I.E. a knockback, a prone, and temporary HP. These are all extremely strong elements for survivability, CC chains, as well as for capping nodes.
If all the teams I played with had Lions, I'd be fine with that, because they are BIS for PVP. However, it is unfortunately untrue that I "form teams with full lions". I can't remember ever having a team like that tbh. There are multiple people from my guild that have lions on one of their toons but not all of us do and usually there may be one or two members in my party who have a lion at all.
As far as for feeling like because I think that end game BIS players are often too survivable that I should not condone the use of the Lion mount, I also complained about these Lion mounts in those forum discussions. I talked about endless consumption with high lifesteal, tons of heals from mount insignias, healing wheel, and drowned weapons. I use those as well. I will use, and condone that my guild use, what is BIS. However, I will come here and tell the Devs what I think is too strong and needs to be adjusted. There is no inconsistency in what I have always done.
If you're comparing the Lions to Drains I don't know what to tell you mate, you're on your own there. Drains prevent you from moving and using any dailies. They turn you into a punching bag with no way to use your classes abilities at all. If you feel like a prone and some temporary HP is similar to that.. well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Using ring of ambush for the same reason why it called trick cheat etc.. A player can stay longer alive which is is important can one rotae through stealth. LETS go back to lion you said prone. AFTER a prone a player cannot resist or deflect.
DOEs the ambush bothers because is farmable item everyone can get?
I feel like you've missed the point of this discussion, in fact I know you have. All of your posts are aimed at questioning the general state of PVP or directed at what I and/or my guild do in PVP. If you love ambush rings and drains, feel free to say so. If you love solo Q and hate the idea of a premade lobby, feel free to say so. If you'd rather they not implement a lobby for premades, that's completely up to you and completely relevant to this post.
What is NOT relevant is what you don't like that exists in the game mate. You don't like the Lion? Fair enough, ask for a Q without it. That's your perogative. You want to compare the lion to ambush rings and drains, that's your thing man. I literally don't know what to say to you.
If you have a difficult time understanding that Ambush rings give stealth, the TR's class mechanic, to all players then it's your issue. If you can't understand that drains turn players without wards into standing punching bags, that's also your issue. Our guild doesn't allow either of those because they completely take away the ability to do anything meaningful as a player. When players use ambush rings and drains they take away the last remaining elements of skill out of the game. You can't fight what you can't target, you can't avoid when you can't dodge, and you can't use a rescue device when you have no AP. It's very simple. The quote I have in my signature sums it up nicely for me. How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible? For that matter, how would you like PVE if all the mobs drained all of your AP and stamina?
The Lion is simply another mechanic like having a wheel of elements or the rod of imperial restraint. It has an appropriate cooldown but gives a distinct advantage when used in combination for chain CC and winning the node. It grants extra survivability with temporary HP. It does not come without a price though. People who have them have either been supremely lucky with RNG or paid a massively hefty sum for them. If I had my wishes the Lion would never have released with these abilities, but the Devs decided to produce it. They're OP as far as legendary mounts go. However, they're not game breaking, they don't kill class design, they offer an advantage.
If you have any more direct disagreement with my personal PVP practices, feel free to message me, or even PM me in game. I will not however continue to simply answer your personal questions on this forum which is meant to discuss a Premade Q system.
Thanks for your response.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
For that matter, how would you like PVE if all the mobs drained all of your AP and stamina?
To stick in a bit more PvE perspective for just a second, a paladin's Sanctuary mechanic doesn't block the AP drain attack from a redcap powrie. Powries are balanced because they are low-HP and easily controlled, and they have a huge telegraphed windup to their AP-draining attack, but if one decides to nail an OP from a distance, the OP has very limited tools to prevent it. The class mechanic that you'd expect to prevent it, doesn't.
Facing drains is like being in that situation on every class all the time, without the mitigating factors of the powrie being otherwise weak.
For that matter, how would you like PVE if all the mobs drained all of your AP and stamina?
To stick in a bit more PvE perspective for just a second, a paladin's Sanctuary mechanic doesn't block the AP drain attack from a redcap powrie. Powries are balanced because they are low-HP and easily controlled, and they have a huge telegraphed windup to their AP-draining attack, but if one decides to nail an OP from a distance, the OP has very limited tools to prevent it. The class mechanic that you'd expect to prevent it, doesn't.
Facing drains is like being in that situation on every class all the time, without the mitigating factors of the powrie being otherwise weak.
Except worse, because tbh, stamina drains are the real bugger. No dodge, no sprint, no shield, no sanctuary, etc. etc. This is the real killer. This is the game breaking mechanic. Like the worst thing Devs ever came up with. "Hey guys, let's make it so when you use this item your opponent can't do anything defensive at all".
Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I agree it's much worse.
The devs also haven't included any mobs that drain your stamina. Golly, I wonder why?
Comments
Rainbow forces you to make the most out of each class and not rely on a specific class ability to overpower your opponent. If you have 2 people playing the same class with different builds one may do more damage or be more tanky but the same underlying abilities are present.
I see no reason why rainbows should not be the preferred Qing method and required except in a lobby style of PVP Q where both teams have to agree on the match and the comp to begin with.
IF we compare that mount power to a wheel of elements wheel is nothing.
WITH wheel you take the risk to get the wrong buff. Enemy can make you to take the wrong buff or enemy can make you to get nothing,
IN other hand the lion wouldnt bother me if was individual for 1 player the shield the caster.
BUT here is the issue no matter how your enemy team will perform to kill 1 target someone will pop that thing and protect the allies. THAT i am sorry i cant call it skill and should stay out of premades as the drains did.
YOU complain for immortality and the same time you form teams with full lions lol.
Now, if you think Legendary mounts should be disabled in PVP or in Premades, that's completely fine with me. I have no problems with that and you're entitled to your opinion.
I do feel the need to explain something though, it seems we need to clear this up before we go any further. I did not put the Lion in the game, I know that may come as a surprise to you. The devs actually did. Now, in PVP guilds we aim to be BIS. We try to completely min max our toons for the Best PVP outcomes. The Lions, as you stated, are BIS for PVP because they offer multiple advantages. I.E. a knockback, a prone, and temporary HP. These are all extremely strong elements for survivability, CC chains, as well as for capping nodes.
If all the teams I played with had Lions, I'd be fine with that, because they are BIS for PVP. However, it is unfortunately untrue that I "form teams with full lions". I can't remember ever having a team like that tbh. There are multiple people from my guild that have lions on one of their toons but not all of us do and usually there may be one or two members in my party who have a lion at all.
As far as for feeling like because I think that end game BIS players are often too survivable that I should not condone the use of the Lion mount, I also complained about these Lion mounts in those forum discussions. I talked about endless consumption with high lifesteal, tons of heals from mount insignias, healing wheel, and drowned weapons. I use those as well. I will use, and condone that my guild use, what is BIS. However, I will come here and tell the Devs what I think is too strong and needs to be adjusted. There is no inconsistency in what I have always done.
If you're comparing the Lions to Drains I don't know what to tell you mate, you're on your own there. Drains prevent you from moving and using any dailies. They turn you into a punching bag with no way to use your classes abilities at all. If you feel like a prone and some temporary HP is similar to that.. well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
LETS go back to lion you said prone. AFTER a prone a player cannot resist or deflect.
DOEs the ambush bothers because is farmable item everyone can get?
What is NOT relevant is what you don't like that exists in the game mate. You don't like the Lion? Fair enough, ask for a Q without it. That's your perogative. You want to compare the lion to ambush rings and drains, that's your thing man. I literally don't know what to say to you.
If you have a difficult time understanding that Ambush rings give stealth, the TR's class mechanic, to all players then it's your issue. If you can't understand that drains turn players without wards into standing punching bags, that's also your issue. Our guild doesn't allow either of those because they completely take away the ability to do anything meaningful as a player. When players use ambush rings and drains they take away the last remaining elements of skill out of the game. You can't fight what you can't target, you can't avoid when you can't dodge, and you can't use a rescue device when you have no AP. It's very simple.
The quote I have in my signature sums it up nicely for me. How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible? For that matter, how would you like PVE if all the mobs drained all of your AP and stamina?
The Lion is simply another mechanic like having a wheel of elements or the rod of imperial restraint. It has an appropriate cooldown but gives a distinct advantage when used in combination for chain CC and winning the node. It grants extra survivability with temporary HP. It does not come without a price though. People who have them have either been supremely lucky with RNG or paid a massively hefty sum for them. If I had my wishes the Lion would never have released with these abilities, but the Devs decided to produce it. They're OP as far as legendary mounts go. However, they're not game breaking, they don't kill class design, they offer an advantage.
If you have any more direct disagreement with my personal PVP practices, feel free to message me, or even PM me in game. I will not however continue to simply answer your personal questions on this forum which is meant to discuss a Premade Q system.
Thanks for your response.
Facing drains is like being in that situation on every class all the time, without the mitigating factors of the powrie being otherwise weak.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The devs also haven't included any mobs that drain your stamina. Golly, I wonder why?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia