I feel for the parents of the x + 1 child when they have to explain that they can't play on the Xbox because of that limit.
They'd cope.
We have NOW TV, on the Xbox, the wife's iPad and the kids' tablets. Christmas day last year saw darling daughter get ahead of the game when they both got new tabs and cancelled her old one before grabbing the chance and installed the vacant slot to her new one. Little brother was NOT pleased when he realised what she'd done and had to wait till January end before he could transfer from his old one. We survived.
The thing with a system like that though is that the useage data of the main account is easily readable. So it would be possible to add users to long term accounts that show no dodgy patterns. It would be a relatively short and easy process to contact customer services and request the +1 kid access. I would think that a home with that many kids with Live accts would have a bigger problem with the arguments over who plays when. People with existing (well behaved) accounts would have grandfather rights to transfer to a new system. It would only apply for new users. As long as companies maintain a human(e) element in their CS procedures things don't have to be black and white.
I get that these 3rd party sellers can annoy some people. Personally, it doesn't bother me in the least. The only place it's really bad is in PE and I don't spend much time there.
This is a problem that PWE needs to sort out internally.
I don't see any reason why Microsoft would, or should, get involved in making changes to the amount of accounts that can be used on an XB for a problem that only plagues a few games.
The Neverwinter Community should be ashamed of themselves, I have been waiting 3 months after I opened my lock box and received a Griffin that was taken from me. They still have not give it back to me. I receive emails from them stating they are investigating, how long does that take (3 months), I feel that it is long enough. I have had issues with my other profile so there is legal action being taken against Xbox so this is the way I get repaid because I am fighting for something that is mine. There are still ongoing issues with the 3rd party sales, and the response is they will investigate, never have I received a response that they are working on getting this to stop. Is the Community sticking together, sticking together involves all players speaking on issues going on so they can be resolved, not trying to go against each other, seems that is what they are aiming for.
Nice idea but VIP 12 is a bit much. Maybe it kicks in at a certain character level? That way it's not an elite perk, but would still consume time/resources.
If PWE don't run regular checks of the chat logs and ban anyone hawking their illicit HAMSTER in chat, they should. If offending accts are being targeted quickly and efficiently, any decent delay in gaining access to chat would be effective.
True VIP 12 maybe a bit much VIP 1-3 might be plenty, but the point is make the farmers pay to spam then the bans will cause them to stop. and yes a level requirment might help too, but that is just a few hours of time.
Best thing to do is to report the spammers. I found a easy way to do it. If I make any errors feel free to correct them, I am on break at work and not in front of my Xbox.
This is for the Xbox One, I do not know how it works for other systems.
1. Press left bumper and down on the direction pad to open chat. 2. Press the button just to the left of the power button to interact with the chat. 3. Scroll to the offending message and highlight the username. 4. Select interact with player. 5. Select report player. 6. Select chat spam
Ivery said it before but I think they should lower the price of zen in game or have more half off zen sales more then a couple times a year would make it easier for people to get the stuff they want in game and not have to resort to 3rd party sites less people buying less profits for them no profits = no business
The problem with that though is that the hawkers would just sell twice as much for the same price. If Zen is easier to come by in real world money it would immediately be reflected in the exchange and the value would drop in AD. This would make it easier to get for everyone, including the 3rd parties. People with loads of zen would either flood the market with cut price zen store purchases, or vastly undercut each other on the exchange.
The ONLY people who would lose out would be PWE who would see an immediate drop in revenue until the value of zen dropped in game to the point where people need to buy double to exchange for enough AD to buy what they want. But they would continue to lose money on people buying zen for zen store purchases, which would basically halve in price, and consequently in value.
If EA's model is to believed 3rd party sales of ingame currencies is nowhere near the point of causing serious lasting harm to the MMO model. Certainly nothing near what the risk of halving their legitimate revenue would be.
I don't think its that much of a problem. Yeah, its a pain if you are trying to read what other people are offering/asking, but if you're just walking through PE its more like white noise than anything else. My brain auto filters it out. They only continue cos players are still dumb enough to think they can get away with buying from them. Warn and ban, and be strict with it.
Black markets don't exist without people willing to buy. If players are warned and still buy.... then its all on them if they get punished.
It's irksome they can't pay minimum wage to have someone sit there and eliminate the spam-bots as they appear. Surely they'd make the money back in long-term Zen sales.
Casual Gamers
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories. "In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
Regarding dealing with spam, you do know you can turn on/off chat channels, right? If you happen to be in PE a lot and don't want to see the spam just turn off the "zone" chat. The spam is in zone chat 99% of the time, so at least the spammers have some form decency (lolz)
I customize my channels/color associations personally. If you haven't started doing this you should really give it a go.
In response to reporting the Chat Spammers, I've found this doesn't work. If I report them on one toon I see them appear on my other toons. The report/block should be acct wide.
Also I've reported and then the block hasn't lasted or taken effect so I still see them spamming chat.
Finally the Report Offensive Player option is right next to the Invite to Guild option. Invite to Guild has absolutely no option for confirmation which is stupid. (Yes I've made this mistake ).
It's irksome they can't pay minimum wage to have someone sit there and eliminate the spam-bots as they appear. Surely they'd make the money back in long-term Zen sales.
^ this. One person could cover all 3 platforms quite easily. Yes, it'd be a round the clock job or at least cover US & European time zones so 2 people on shifts. One AD selling message and you're banned - problem solved.
Edit - the person could even fill in on some general customer service stuff when not busy, it would pay for itself.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
It's irksome they can't pay minimum wage to have someone sit there and eliminate the spam-bots as they appear. Surely they'd make the money back in long-term Zen sales.
^ this. One person could cover all 3 platforms quite easily. Yes, it'd be a round the clock job or at least cover US & European time zones so 2 people on shifts. One AD selling message and you're banned - problem solved.
Edit - the person could even fill in on some general customer service stuff when not busy, it would pay for itself.
I'm reaching out into the mist beyond... I can hear a voice... it's speaking to me... imparting ancient wisdom... It's saying........
> @manyvengeance said: > Well I'm a legit gamer so those sites don't matter to me but I think if they lowered the price of zen in game maybe less people would go to 3rd party sites less people buying 3rd party stuff less 3rd party sites try but come on don't you think $200 is a little much for 23000 zen? 3rd party sites offer 23000 zen for way over half less then that just something to think about 2. How often do we have half price sales? Twice a year? > > I can agree with this, you don't get enough out of your money when you go to the Zen Market, if you think about it you can't even buy a companion if you put $10, how much a mount costs? $35...? All of it is way overpriced in hopes you grind as well as spend money, what happens if you invest the full price of another new game, what could you get with $60 that can make you feel like you got a real head-start? A mount and a companion, that's it! Really? You can't even buy the Dragonborne pack with $60... > > This is like the main reason very few spend real money in the game, it doesn't feel like Zen is really worth it.
The issue on this thread, it seems to me, is two-fold: the Zen Market's diminishing returns versus cost to buy in, and the second issue is the percentage rate of drops of rare/epic/legendary gear in the game. The second issue is the largest contributor to the rise and sustainment of 3rd party websites.
For full disclosure, I did get a legendary mount pack to drop but I do sympathize with players that have been trying to obtain that for a long time (or any legendary mount). Why is the rate percentage like 0.01%? And how is it that players have every legendary mount up on the AH for sale? So either players want to buy legendary's from 3rd party websites, or buy the AD to use for legendary purchases, both of which are "illegal." If the game devs believed that players are going to sit by and put up with the low rate of drops for the gear they need, then the developers have another thing coming. You can play this game for free, but your toon will hit a progression wall and be surpassed by players who do pay to play.
As for the first issue, the cost of Zen and the products available for purchase have diminishing returns. Buying keys for lockboxes is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot where the odds are invariably stacked against you to acquire good gear. You can buy mounts, but they have 1/2 the stats as legendary mounts and are pretty costly. Coalescent wards? 1000 Zen?
The only recourse would be to sell legendary mounts on the zen market for a cost I can't begin to imagine, or increase the rate of drop from lockboxes. Without addressing those two things, the 3rd party sites will continue to exist and operate and players will continue to use that resource to advance in the game.
<p style="color:dark green;"> SHOOT THE CRIT - HR 4234</p> <p style="color:dark yellow;">Chilling - DC 2779</p> <p style="color:crimson;">Samhain - SW 4200</p>
3) Players could stop being so vain and stop thinking they HAVE to have the latest, greatest mount. People need to just grow up and enjoy the game instead of being concerned what others think of their appearance.
The point about the value of Zen only really stands up if everyone is always paying the ticket price. 3500 for a mount? Does anybody actually pay that? Cos I didn't. The amount of discount vouchers for higher cost purchases are out there. I bought 1k worth of zen to buy my White Tiger. Its the most I've ever bought, the rest I got from trading ADs and using a 20% off voucher to drop the cost to 2800.
The thing is I had to save up... and wait... I didn't just chuck money at it.
If the price of zen drops in the game store, nothing will change. The 3rd party vendors will simply adjust their price structure to match. They don't have the overheads that PWE/Cryptic do, they are criminals who are effectively stealing it (at a cost of zero...) so the only guaranteed outcome from selling zen cheaper is that PWE/Cryptic see an instant loss in revenue.
How did you get a white tiger for 1k zen? they are a purple mount and sell for 3.5k. I know that because I bought it too and 3 of my characters use it.
For me it's about the zen to AD conversion price. I converted a lot more when it was cheaper and currently I only do it for necessities like VIP and pres wards. I guess it's different if you buy with cash as then it doesn't alter what you pay.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
How did you get a white tiger for 1k zen? they are a purple mount and sell for 3.5k. I know that because I bought it too and 3 of my characters use it.
I bought 1k worth of zen to buy my White Tiger. Its the most I've ever bought, the rest I got from trading ADs and using a 20% off voucher to drop the cost to 2800.
The maths are simple, 3500 - 20% =2800 I BOUGHT 1K, the rest, (1.8k) I traded for ADs.
How did you get a white tiger for 1k zen? they are a purple mount and sell for 3.5k. I know that because I bought it too and 3 of my characters use it.
I bought 1k worth of zen to buy my White Tiger. Its the most I've ever bought, the rest I got from trading ADs and using a 20% off voucher to drop the cost to 2800.
The maths are simple, 3500 - 20% =2800 I BOUGHT 1K, the rest, (1.8k) I traded for ADs.
And that, my friend, is exactly the problem with the Zen Market prices, instead of people buying the full price in Zen, they prefer to grind for it, but that's something not everyone new to the game knows or even desires to do, so they turn to the "alternative" (3rd Party) where they feel that their money alone has value, not money+100s of hours grinding.
I tell you what. If they can find the 3rd party vendor and remain incapable of working out the zen exchange, and go and break the rules they deserve to get banned. I don't buy the "it was the only way I could afford to..." and "I didn't realise it was wrong" horse HAMSTER. People using 3rd party vendors are mostly well aware its wrong and it wouldn't matter if zen were cheaper in game. Those muppets would still use 3rd parties cos 3rd parties would still exist, and still be cheaper. They think they are pulling one over on the game by being "smarter" than the rest. I have zero sympathy, and targeting the players who cheat rather than the career criminals who don't give a HAMSTER if they banned is the only way it works
Someone said in another thread that only like 15% of the player base has spent any money on the game and Cryptic really doesn't like banning costumers over this because is a costumer that won't be back.
In any business model you would need to make something drastic to make people spend money but carefully enough for them to not leave either, that's the reason they took Leadership AD away or more recently invoke rAD, the same thing triggered the Ward fiasco, I honestly don't think a permanent discount on the Zen Market would make things worse, the only difference from the previous changes is that Cryptic would take the first hit this time, instead of the players base (which if you think about it, would look really good from the costumers point of view).
The face is, this is not a "instant gratification" game. If that is what people are looking for, then they better look someplace else. With these games you are suppose to start with a character that can almost be knocked over with a feather and very little in equipment. OVER TIME you increase in level, you become stronger and get better equipment.
As I've said before, EA have the biggest issue with 3rd parties, on their FIFA franchise. They use a Red and Yellow card system. First offence buying, players get a warning and their total currency wiped. Second offence is a life ban. Anyone caught selling or 3rd party account farming gets an instant ban.
If there is no serious sanction for buying from 3rd parties, there are a lot more paying customers who would just think, "stuff it... its cheaper and I don't get punished, what the hell... I'll do it to"
That would be the case whatever price PWE/Cryptic charge, because they will always be more expensive than the 3rd parties who can always afford to undercut the game company because they don't have overheads or pay taxes and so on. The only way the 3rd parties will stop, is by zen costing so little in game that PWE/Cryptic make no money. At which point the game dies.
Its like treating a sore toe by cutting the patients leg off.
Whatever some people might think of them PWE/Cryptic have proved that the free to play with full access to all material (BECAUSE of the zen exchange.) can work. Hopefully more software companies will see this and follow suit. They took a big risk and should be supported by the players, not shafted up the HAMSTER by chancers. I don't blame the 3rd parties... criminal scumbags are what they are, they will always exist as long as there are people who feed their crime by buying stolen goods. Of course they should be shut down wherever possible and locked out of the game is possible.
But they only exist because there are players for whom a free game isn't enough, and they want even more for less.
I know, they took a big risk with the ZAX and they're adjusting the game exactly because of this, if the system were working perfectly more than a mere 15% of players would spend money on the game, but that's not the case, and afaik Cryptic does basically the same as EA, with the warnings and banns.
Nobody is asking that the prices of the Zen Market need to be little to nothing, idk where did you get that idea, all I'm saying is that Zen has little value atm, and that's why people don't spend really that much, like I said earlier, for the value of another game you can't even buy the Dragonborn pack, that doesn't tell you anything?
Also, all the adjustments seem to hurt the player base more than 3rd Parties, we will probably see the shut down of the ZAX before a Zen Market price adjustment.
Comments
We have NOW TV, on the Xbox, the wife's iPad and the kids' tablets. Christmas day last year saw darling daughter get ahead of the game when they both got new tabs and cancelled her old one before grabbing the chance and installed the vacant slot to her new one.
Little brother was NOT pleased when he realised what she'd done and had to wait till January end before he could transfer from his old one.
We survived.
The thing with a system like that though is that the useage data of the main account is easily readable. So it would be possible to add users to long term accounts that show no dodgy patterns. It would be a relatively short and easy process to contact customer services and request the +1 kid access.
I would think that a home with that many kids with Live accts would have a bigger problem with the arguments over who plays when.
People with existing (well behaved) accounts would have grandfather rights to transfer to a new system. It would only apply for new users.
As long as companies maintain a human(e) element in their CS procedures things don't have to be black and white.
This is a problem that PWE needs to sort out internally.
I don't see any reason why Microsoft would, or should, get involved in making changes to the amount of accounts that can be used on an XB for a problem that only plagues a few games.
There are still ongoing issues with the 3rd party sales, and the response is they will investigate, never have I received a response that they are working on getting this to stop. Is the Community sticking together, sticking together involves all players speaking on issues going on so they can be resolved, not trying to go against each other, seems that is what they are aiming for.
Maybe it kicks in at a certain character level?
That way it's not an elite perk, but would still consume time/resources.
If PWE don't run regular checks of the chat logs and ban anyone hawking their illicit HAMSTER in chat, they should.
If offending accts are being targeted quickly and efficiently, any decent delay in gaining access to chat would be effective.
This is for the Xbox One, I do not know how it works for other systems.
1. Press left bumper and down on the direction pad to open chat.
2. Press the button just to the left of the power button to interact with the chat.
3. Scroll to the offending message and highlight the username.
4. Select interact with player.
5. Select report player.
6. Select chat spam
If Zen is easier to come by in real world money it would immediately be reflected in the exchange and the value would drop in AD.
This would make it easier to get for everyone, including the 3rd parties. People with loads of zen would either flood the market with cut price zen store purchases, or vastly undercut each other on the exchange.
The ONLY people who would lose out would be PWE who would see an immediate drop in revenue until the value of zen dropped in game to the point where people need to buy double to exchange for enough AD to buy what they want. But they would continue to lose money on people buying zen for zen store purchases, which would basically halve in price, and consequently in value.
If EA's model is to believed 3rd party sales of ingame currencies is nowhere near the point of causing serious lasting harm to the MMO model.
Certainly nothing near what the risk of halving their legitimate revenue would be.
Yeah, its a pain if you are trying to read what other people are offering/asking, but if you're just walking through PE its more like white noise than anything else.
My brain auto filters it out.
They only continue cos players are still dumb enough to think they can get away with buying from them.
Warn and ban, and be strict with it.
Black markets don't exist without people willing to buy. If players are warned and still buy.... then its all on them if they get punished.
This creates a record of it and assists PWE.
Surely they'd make the money back in long-term Zen sales.
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Also I've reported and then the block hasn't lasted or taken effect so I still see them spamming chat.
Finally the Report Offensive Player option is right next to the Invite to Guild option. Invite to Guild has absolutely no option for confirmation which is stupid. (Yes I've made this mistake
Edit - the person could even fill in on some general customer service stuff when not busy, it would pay for itself.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
It's saying........
"Intern..."
> Well I'm a legit gamer so those sites don't matter to me but I think if they lowered the price of zen in game maybe less people would go to 3rd party sites less people buying 3rd party stuff less 3rd party sites try but come on don't you think $200 is a little much for 23000 zen? 3rd party sites offer 23000 zen for way over half less then that just something to think about 2. How often do we have half price sales? Twice a year?
>
> I can agree with this, you don't get enough out of your money when you go to the Zen Market, if you think about it you can't even buy a companion if you put $10, how much a mount costs? $35...? All of it is way overpriced in hopes you grind as well as spend money, what happens if you invest the full price of another new game, what could you get with $60 that can make you feel like you got a real head-start? A mount and a companion, that's it! Really? You can't even buy the Dragonborne pack with $60...
>
> This is like the main reason very few spend real money in the game, it doesn't feel like Zen is really worth it.
The issue on this thread, it seems to me, is two-fold: the Zen Market's diminishing returns versus cost to buy in, and the second issue is the percentage rate of drops of rare/epic/legendary gear in the game. The second issue is the largest contributor to the rise and sustainment of 3rd party websites.
For full disclosure, I did get a legendary mount pack to drop but I do sympathize with players that have been trying to obtain that for a long time (or any legendary mount). Why is the rate percentage like 0.01%? And how is it that players have every legendary mount up on the AH for sale? So either players want to buy legendary's from 3rd party websites, or buy the AD to use for legendary purchases, both of which are "illegal." If the game devs believed that players are going to sit by and put up with the low rate of drops for the gear they need, then the developers have another thing coming. You can play this game for free, but your toon will hit a progression wall and be surpassed by players who do pay to play.
As for the first issue, the cost of Zen and the products available for purchase have diminishing returns. Buying keys for lockboxes is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot where the odds are invariably stacked against you to acquire good gear. You can buy mounts, but they have 1/2 the stats as legendary mounts and are pretty costly. Coalescent wards? 1000 Zen?
The only recourse would be to sell legendary mounts on the zen market for a cost I can't begin to imagine, or increase the rate of drop from lockboxes. Without addressing those two things, the 3rd party sites will continue to exist and operate and players will continue to use that resource to advance in the game.
<p style="color:dark yellow;">Chilling - DC 2779</p>
<p style="color:crimson;">Samhain - SW 4200</p>
<b> <p style="color:orange;">Rolling Twenties GH 20</p>
3500 for a mount?
Does anybody actually pay that?
Cos I didn't.
The amount of discount vouchers for higher cost purchases are out there.
I bought 1k worth of zen to buy my White Tiger. Its the most I've ever bought, the rest I got from trading ADs and using a 20% off voucher to drop the cost to 2800.
The thing is I had to save up... and wait... I didn't just chuck money at it.
If the price of zen drops in the game store, nothing will change. The 3rd party vendors will simply adjust their price structure to match. They don't have the overheads that PWE/Cryptic do, they are criminals who are effectively stealing it (at a cost of zero...) so the only guaranteed outcome from selling zen cheaper is that PWE/Cryptic see an instant loss in revenue.
How does that help?
For me it's about the zen to AD conversion price. I converted a lot more when it was cheaper and currently I only do it for necessities like VIP and pres wards. I guess it's different if you buy with cash as then it doesn't alter what you pay.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
If they can find the 3rd party vendor and remain incapable of working out the zen exchange, and go and break the rules they deserve to get banned.
I don't buy the "it was the only way I could afford to..." and "I didn't realise it was wrong" horse HAMSTER.
People using 3rd party vendors are mostly well aware its wrong and it wouldn't matter if zen were cheaper in game.
Those muppets would still use 3rd parties cos 3rd parties would still exist, and still be cheaper. They think they are pulling one over on the game by being "smarter" than the rest.
I have zero sympathy, and targeting the players who cheat rather than the career criminals who don't give a HAMSTER if they banned is the only way it works
In any business model you would need to make something drastic to make people spend money but carefully enough for them to not leave either, that's the reason they took Leadership AD away or more recently invoke rAD, the same thing triggered the Ward fiasco, I honestly don't think a permanent discount on the Zen Market would make things worse, the only difference from the previous changes is that Cryptic would take the first hit this time, instead of the players base (which if you think about it, would look really good from the costumers point of view).
First offence buying, players get a warning and their total currency wiped. Second offence is a life ban.
Anyone caught selling or 3rd party account farming gets an instant ban.
If there is no serious sanction for buying from 3rd parties, there are a lot more paying customers who would just think, "stuff it... its cheaper and I don't get punished, what the hell... I'll do it to"
That would be the case whatever price PWE/Cryptic charge, because they will always be more expensive than the 3rd parties who can always afford to undercut the game company because they don't have overheads or pay taxes and so on. The only way the 3rd parties will stop, is by zen costing so little in game that PWE/Cryptic make no money. At which point the game dies.
Its like treating a sore toe by cutting the patients leg off.
Whatever some people might think of them PWE/Cryptic have proved that the free to play with full access to all material (BECAUSE of the zen exchange.) can work. Hopefully more software companies will see this and follow suit. They took a big risk and should be supported by the players, not shafted up the HAMSTER by chancers.
I don't blame the 3rd parties... criminal scumbags are what they are, they will always exist as long as there are people who feed their crime by buying stolen goods. Of course they should be shut down wherever possible and locked out of the game is possible.
But they only exist because there are players for whom a free game isn't enough, and they want even more for less.
Screw them.
Nobody is asking that the prices of the Zen Market need to be little to nothing, idk where did you get that idea, all I'm saying is that Zen has little value atm, and that's why people don't spend really that much, like I said earlier, for the value of another game you can't even buy the Dragonborn pack, that doesn't tell you anything?
Also, all the adjustments seem to hurt the player base more than 3rd Parties, we will probably see the shut down of the ZAX before a Zen Market price adjustment.