Future of the GF is fine, I haven't noticed anyone excluding GF's from PVE.
Admittedly since the Mod10, I've swapped over to Greater Bonding Stones (from Augment with Rank 9s) and also Respecc'd to a slightly more DPS build (i.e. added some Crit) but I have only noticed a small drop off in DPS for solo and I'm not having any trouble tanking CN.
Not sure about how I will go for FBI, I guess I will find out when I finally get it unlocked and get the EF Res that I need to enter.
How someone can go from "invincible" to "RIP GF" is hard to understand, because they have nerfed Steel Defence??? If the GF was invincible then it needed balancing.
There is too much "the world is going to end" in this thread, its unwarranted and it gives new players false impressions about what it is like to play a GF. Fair enough we got a bit of a nerf, but they kept the class viable - yeah its boring playing solo but it is a Tank class and the nerf wasn't too bad.
Really, I think you probably should be hoping that they don't look too hard at the GF for a while, otherwise you're probably not going to like what happens.
As for useless feats and powers etc. - every class has plenty of those
This isn't me saying "end of the world" it's me showing the facts.
~No other class has 16 feats linked up with powers and thats a FACT
~We were one if not the first class to be created in this game, and its time for a revamp
~We are shared with the GWF and OP both of them were based off of us not the other way around
Its time for some updates in our class, thats all I want.
I don't care if we got nerfed, just fix the problems and disparities instead of nerfing things like Villains Menace and KC that didn't even work in the first place lol, how you're a GF and don't recognize the problems with the feats and general over view amazes me, maybe you haven't fully researched what I mean? perhaps you don't understand, but none the less, I and many other GF's and even GWF's recognize the problems.
All I have to do is wait it out and see what happens in the long awaited future.
Till now I met several GF´s tanking FBI. One outdamaged two heavy striker like GWF and SW only using Commander Strike, running a conquerer at 4k+. Another 3.2 GF tanked Drufi with 120k HP unbuffed but 13k deflect (was a bit surprising) and had no issues doing so (conquerer). Knights valor is a big plus to prevent parties from wiping at the second boss, superior to OP´s bubble popping time to time. My GF is 3.1 and I think it´s a pretty strong char, no need to hide from any other class. I like playing it and I like tanking. He´s not prepared for FBI, maybe some time he will, maybe not.
@zachcampbell85 Maybe I am blind, but you dig a grave because you can´t run that supporter build any more in mod 10 based on an outdated armorset?
Drufi is probably one of the easiest bosses to tank,he/she hits normal and less hard than garakas.i am not troling.
problem with drufi is to not throw you at the ice,and to aggro her away from ice pylars so to have them for ring of winter phase.That;s it.
A tanky GWf,could tank her aswell.
Second boss it is easy untill some party member decides to summon defenders companions like Shield for example then Gf is in trouble. hatti is more difficult cause it can throw you in the cliff or use the aoe on your party GWfs and you get instakilled or be at 10% healthg at the edge of the cliff. FBI is just to climb the mountain and fight the giant mobs.This is the challenge of the fbi.You passed it?good now fight in lazyness for 20 mins more to get ..10tt suplies in the end and to spend a 50k key in order to get an ancient weapon of 6k...
As for comander's strike i use it,but i don't like the power.i find the whole concept of it,silly.I wouldn;t mind a rework. cause it gives fuel to Gf haters to continue to spread lies and misinformation.
PS:i think drufi can be soloed by any decent above 3,1 k good specced Gf.|it is just boring to do so and for non existant reward
It´s not about your skills that may be so high, making every content trivial for you. It´s about the average player I meet in random groups (no max-buff-groups), who definitely get a challenge in this dungeon. Most of them not running at 4,3kIL. The reward is redicules for sure, compared to the average time you need with suboptimal groups. The fastest and best runs are done with a GF from my PoV, not with an OP. The class might need some changes, but it´s far away from being unplayable, weak or bugged as otherones. If someone get´s bored using the same encounter and doesn´t like the mechanics any more, he might need some kind of change?
Hi Quallo,i never implied that i do fbi cause of my exist or no existent skills.I just said it is the structure of the dungeon and its mechanics that make it predictable,and not easy. It is still difficult but predictable nonetheless.
Climbing up the mountain is tough cause of the hard hitting mobs +piercing everfrost.This is where 90% of wipes happen.I die there sometimes. The other phases are predictable and you can die of bad luck and bad coordination.or bugs.(drufi not summoning her pylars)
As about IL it matters but in this dungeon what matters most is your stat allocation.You need max out defensive stats .A lesser geared but optimal specced Gf can do this .
As for OP vs GF ,i had a healadin at 2,8k and i respecced it to tank.The toon is booned etc..well i run one etos and one elol.i don;t play it.it is mega boring.You cannot die whatever mistake you do. Binding oath=6 or 8 secs of immunity followed by templar;s wrath ,all this in justice tree with virtually no cooldown....sounds legit. meanwhile devs nerfed steel defense.lol .trololol.
Commander;s strike is boring and creates problems.You are credited for damage done by others and also you need hard hitting encounters the most(GWf with IBS). So this powerr is not balanced in a sense that its results are based on a number of unpredicted factors.(party buffs,time to activate,offensive capabilities of GF,buffed stacked GWGs using IBs at the right time)
edit:as about steel defense ...since last patch steel defense for gwfs resist everfrost.lol.poor GWfs (glass cannons) needed a buff while tanks suffer from everfrost and get oneshotted outside of block.Nice balance.Nore qq from the GWf lobby in this game and GWfs might resist all damage at all.maybe then they will stop complaining and ask nerfs for other classes.
edit:as about steel defense ...since last patch steel defense for gwfs resist everfrost.lol.poor GWfs (glass cannons) needed a buff while tanks suffer from everfrost and get oneshotted outside of block.Nice balance.Nore qq from the GWf lobby in this game and GWfs might resist all damage at all.maybe then they will stop complaining and ask nerfs for other classes.
It was a change for both GF and GWF, our Steel Defense also makes us immune to everfrost damage.
Certain class powers no longer cause certain bosses to give up on their dedication to violence. Great Weapon Fighter: Steel Defense now grants Everfrost damage immunity during its effect."
maybe they intended only for GWF and then changed their minds when they saw noumerous GFs die there.Could be.
... All I really have to say about mod 10 GF DPS is a skill named commander's strike needs a serious rework.
Commander's strike on kain (a gf who is not built properly for dps) ... Commander's Strike on Ork (a proper dps gf)
Ages ago I predicted DPS GF 1 day becoming meta. Well, now it is. I know 6 top tier dps gfs now instead of only 2 and almost every GF I know has swapped to conq in pve from tact or prot.
First I would like to know the followings: How could the properly built dps GF cast (Swings in ACT) CS 26 times w/i 42 sec - more likely 18 sec as the encounter length was that long by ACT? Let's calculate w/ 42 sec. It would mean GF was able to hit - not just initiate but also finish the attack - every 42/26~= 1.62 sec/hit (18/26~=0.7sec/hit w/ combat time) Similar calculation could be done for the non properly built GF. 45:16 for the whole log (30:20 combat time by ACT) and 839 swings. Let's calculate it w/ 45:16=2716sec -> 2716/839~=3.24sec/hit (1820/839~=2.17sec/hit w/ combat time). Note that calculating w/ the whole time still means non-stop casting (there is always a mob to hit). I think it is impossible but prove me I am wrong and I will agree w/ you there is a serious (game mechanic) issue w/ CS. I think it is the good old log issue we have met in previous mod and it is also "cheating" ACT not just the in game Paingiver chart.
one CS = initial hit + 1 hit/party member = 5 swings
Well, only the initial (by GF) hit of CS should be logged for GF. It seems to me not this is what happened/is happenning. If a well buffed GWF/CW/SW hits the target under CS and it is logged for the GF then it is a log bug and there is no issue w/ CS itself. That's all I wanted to highlight. See the 2nd picture from @thefabricant . The max hit of CS is 5kk+ logged for GF. It could be an IBS/IceKnife/whatever, but definetly - at least I have a high bet - not the damage of the GF's CS damage.
Post edited by kacsanw on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
one CS = initial hit + 1 hit/party member = 5 swings
Well, only the initial (by GF) hit of CS should be logged for GF. It seems to me not this is what happened/is happenning. If a well buffed GWF/CW/SW hits the target under CS and it is logged for the GF then it is a log bug and there is no issue w/ CS itself. That's all I wanted to highlight. See the 2nd picture from @thefabricant . The max hit of CS is 5kk+ logged for GF. It could be an IBS/IceKnife/whatever, but definetly - at least I have a high bet - not the damage of the GF's CS damage.
The way CS works is it when it buffs everyone elses damage, instead of multiplying their damage by some value, it instead takes a percentage of everyone elses damage and deals it as an additional hit. The additional hit counts towards the GFs damage and not everyone elses and it scales a second time with buffs and debuffs, This accounts for why it hits so hard and why it appears to hit so often.
You could have just asked how it works you know, rather than assuming I was falsifying stuff.
one CS = initial hit + 1 hit/party member = 5 swings
Well, only the initial (by GF) hit of CS should be logged for GF. It seems to me not this is what happened/is happenning. If a well buffed GWF/CW/SW hits the target under CS and it is logged for the GF then it is a log bug and there is no issue w/ CS itself. That's all I wanted to highlight. See the 2nd picture from @thefabricant . The max hit of CS is 5kk+ logged for GF. It could be an IBS/IceKnife/whatever, but definetly - at least I have a high bet - not the damage of the GF's CS damage.
The way CS works is it when it buffs everyone elses damage, instead of multiplying their damage by some value, it instead takes a percentage of everyone elses damage and deals it as an additional hit. The additional hit counts towards the GFs damage and not everyone elses and it scales a second time with buffs and debuffs, This accounts for why it hits so hard and why it appears to hit so often.
You could have just asked how it works you know, rather than assuming I was falsifying stuff.
You have not described it just wrote this: "All I really have to say about mod 10 GF DPS is a skill named commander's strike needs a serious rework." Then you inserted 2 images about CS damage on GF where the first thing I noticed was the insane number of Swings. Thanks for the description, but why should I ask about half information? I could test it - as I will do so - but not at work. Peace
I did a random run with one of those GF above, he 3k pure dps, high crit severity 100% crit with bondings etc., low defense stats, skilled player and top build i would say, guess he run Knights challange-Griffin wrath-ITF, can´t tell. A GF running CS and a dps GF dealing these insane single strikes with Griffins wrath 4mio or AoD >5mio ...demorgorgon was dead in 3 seconds, looked like a twohit for me I posted logs from 3k GF and 3k++ GWF in this thread (offtopic) Maybe tehfabricant can do a FBI running DC-CW-OP and two conq-GF to do some 20 second kills from those bosses? Biggest hits i recognized were 16 mio in a FBI run, but that surely goes far better depending on your setup and buffs.
One such "crit" Gf parted with another DPS GF and with out OP they will not make it to the top of the mountain,except if they are in cheesy parties ,running HV+HP plus ambush rings on ranged chars.
Demo is in no way representation of a DPS potential of a class since 1)it is a single target raid 2)it matters who will hit first and qho has highest burst available
A true comparison to a DPS potential between a well specced 3k GWF or a 3,2k thaum CW ,and a 3k DPS GF would be a cn run,with out other GF . The single GF could use ITF or no,that would be his preference.
The GWF or the Thaum would win by having way more more DPS.
I am willing to bet if anyone wants.......A paranoid delussion companion.if my side win ofcourse i expect my companion .And i will be there as healadin to ensure that nothing "extraordianry happens.Like for example ..
the old bug where you have more ability score point....129 ability points lol ...sudden rings on augments....you know old bugs that were fixed. And no external program used like hearing commanders strike while the GF in party has not it slotted.Ah old bugs.thankfully they are all fixed!!!!
i am also betting that none will take the challenge in first place.Cause most of the Gf haters deep inside of you you know you talk BS.
Single strikes of griffon at 4-5 million??? Is this a mod 10 change? I'm a decently specced DPS GF on Xbox, and my griffons doesn't do anything of this nature. Most of the recent DPS GF builds I've read make no mention of even considering slotting it. Thanks for any insight.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
GF's do not need a buff, if anything we're likely to get another nerf. Am fine losing some base damage if they toughen us up somewhat. Steel Defense for SM is great for that but IV's Ferocious Reaction heal doesn't really compare and it can't be buffed otherwise the PvP community would cry a river.
As a top end GF my main priority is to have a build that does not go down, ever, PvP comes second to that and building for PvE first hurts my PvP performance, but am ok with that, am just a casual PvP'er but I'd like, maybe purely on a subjective level alone, to see GF's much more tanky and am willing to lose base damage for it.
For balance issues, it probably wouldn't work, it's just the way I see the class, only Cryptic really has the data to show what's what.
So far for Mod 10 we've been buffed, Steel Grace is amazing, Steel Blitz is a really good alternative to Combat Superiority if you are not a Conc and most of all ITF no longer roots you when you cast it. Mod 10 is a great mod to be a GF.
In PvP with OH Steel Grace, I have a 30% CC resist and it's nice for PvP and PvE and I don't use Elven Battle.
^^^ mod10: Average Gf lost 60% damage from ITF which is a universal power,almost always slotted.
what we got in exchange?Steel Grace.How much it gives?5% crit....
So we are not buffed we got nerfed HARD. Also i don;t see a big deal casting ITF while on the move.Ok it is nice but not something that will make a change. Also I am adamantly against the new mark animation.The damn thing bugs out ,you lose time if you run towards a target and then aggravate strike.it tends to cannot smoothly change between tab and agr strike,instead you get any single at will slotted. That means vs orcus..death.
Steel Blitz is mediocre at best. Combat superiority is good ,but problem is in end game content you will go shield talent -shield defense.if you want to tank. Hatti and turtle with the wind or whatever drain your guard between each phase.Shield talent is needed there.
Cryptic gave something that if you want to use you must forfeit your tankinesss and forced us to change.
What causes problems is Com strike ,cause Thunder as you see ,the nerf brigade is still strong ,orchestrated by its Cw maestro and they still cry all day and complain.
Single strikes of griffon at 4-5 million??? Is this a mod 10 change? I'm a decently specced DPS GF on Xbox, and my griffons doesn't do anything of this nature. Most of the recent DPS GF builds I've read make no mention of even considering slotting it. Thanks for any insight.
I guess it´s a buff from KC and the buffs/debuffs from the group in edemo. About the challenge between a GWF and GF I don´t care who wins, but I can state that GF+CS is able to beat every class pretty simple. It´s WAI so I use that encounter till it get´s nerfed, simple as that. There is only one person that spreads hate atm imo, so maybe calm down and try to accept different opinions. Anyway, I am fine with GF dps builds but my char is going the other way and never dealt that kind of damage anyway. The costs and the efforts to buy companion and artifacts for dps are too much, since I allready have another class, wich is build for a pure striker. Just respecced to Tactition tankspec and hope it will work somehow. Only want to state again, GF is in a good spot atm, not in a bad. If you go PE and chat in lfg, you are the most requested class beside a DC. That´s one of the reasons why I play this class btw and why I go support/tank.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I actually like the changes to ITF, a new tank doesn't have to invest millions of ad to get 120% DR/Party Damage Buff.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited September 2016
CS works exactly the same way as hawk eye, except its a little bit stronger since hawk eye would randomly snipe other sources instead of only encounters, which makes it possible to plan around CS. If you think CS is WAI, then please go to the thread where hawk eye was fixed and ask for the fix to be undone. While you at it, ask for MF to be unpatched as well, since the mechanic of CS is very similar to that.
It sounds like Commander's Strike is too strong from what I've read.
@thefabricant since your suggestion for ItF was very similar to how they ended up tweaking it, do you have a recommendation for how CS could be adjusted? Where it's still a viable tool for helping GFs and their parties?
Commander Strike can hit for high totals, I've gotten a 12.8 million hit on final boss in ETOS. It is very rare though, at least with the GWF and others I run with. Yeah, I get 400k-800k a lot, but not the super crit(where perfect timing with GWF and he crit and then I got crit too) I got in the dungeon a few times.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
It sounds like Commander's Strike is too strong from what I've read.
@thefabricant since your suggestion for ItF was very similar to how they ended up tweaking it, do you have a recommendation for how CS could be adjusted? Where it's still a viable tool for helping GFs and their parties?
Well, there are 2 ways to tweak it. The first is to make it not be double effected by buffs and debuffs. Although it is the simplest solution, I dislike it. I would rather it was converted from an additional hit to a percentage damage buff for the party. To make it worth using though, I would make it a buff that lasted 5 seconds.
If you are asking for a rework at least in PvP we are just fine please go 1v1 this guy he needs more challengers of his level. Arguably the best gf I know of in pvp:
On more of the topic, the issue as stated in my original post, is the feats and additionally how they link up to powers. I have pointed out real problems and how the feats we even have are not very good in my opinion. (Even though most of the people in this thread agree with me as well) PvE and PvP, it's the whole class I am talking about here. 16 feats being directly linked to powers is a huge issue no other class has to deal with and I would love to know if eventually this will be later addressed, on top of the other quality of life issues, and bugs within the class at a later date. It was a shame for the temporary rework that they put GF's in compared to the HR and SW, and as much as I am happy they did "minuscule" quality of life issues such as, Range issues with powers, some activation times, and implementation of Wrathful Warrior that were supposed to work in the first place but didn't, some nerfs literally had no point nor clear answer as to why it was nerfed.
~Villains Menace was one of the go-to daily's for a GF. It provided amazing offensive abilities by dealing additional damage, and provided CC immunity, and 20% Damage Resistance..... Thats what the description says. So they nerfed the daily time by 4 seconds, going down to 10 seconds, which is a huge hit to the daily considering the long activation time, yet after the rework of the GF they never fixed the CC issue even though the buff description says "can not be controlled."
Villains Menace activation time, even though it was supposed to be addressed, is still way too long. it still gets way too interrupted easily, and this needs to be addressed. "Villain's Menace: Activation time reduced from 1.8s down to 1.6s, and it can now combo into other powers 0.4s early. This means if you cast Villain's Menace and immediately start activating other powers, you will be able to start them as early as 1.2s after activation."
This was already not a good start, but Villains Menace buff time needs to be reverted back to 14 seconds if this is what there attempt is at combating the significantly long time to activate. They have never addressed why it was nerfed. Not even in the blog post. I would love to see Villains Menace addressed in the future, reverted to 14 seconds, an activation time that is very quick for the temporary buff, and the CC immunity that was promised for the buff.
~Shield Glitch was never addressed either. I have videos of me and my friends holding up our shields and getting either 1 shotted by a TR or literally our shield would be pierced and wed be CC'd through it, even though you would clearly see it was up well before the adversaries attack. This was most noticeable with the HR, but TR's and CW's are also big culprits, when they would be right in front of me as I smash RB to combat them getting behind me or on the sides, id back up and create a distance where I am always in front of them. It didn't matter what I did, they still CC'd me through the shield. This has to be the most annoying issue with the class right now IMO. CC Through Shield- https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/7a572b03-141d-405d-9eee-0e45ec8888e8?gamerTag=The Guiido&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5
Additionally, not known to many, but this glitch on the GF goes very un-noticed, but when I would use an encounter, marking a target, being interrupted by mostly (CW's, HR's and TR's) my encounters and my main artifact would go back on cool down from 3-2-1 then I could activate it again. I would smash my buttons on my encounter powers, and my mark just for it to work. But to no avail, you can clearly see what I am talking about in the video.
The biggest issue of all, even more than the horrible Heroic and Paragon feats, is the fact the GWF was shared with us. Why on Earth, after 3 years, do they finally decide, that it's a good idea to finally change the ties we share?? Will they know what is desired to the GF and not desired to the GWF? Will they know what passives is meant for the classes? Feats? At Wills?? Seriously these are huge issues.
I can talk about this all day, and I would love too until I am blue in the face, but the problems still exist, and I will not stop until they are addressed, and fixed by the Developers. This goes for all the QoL Issues with Powers and overall, Bugs in the class, the GWF no longer being shared with the GF, Feats (Both Heroic, and Pragon) REWORK of ALL of our feats, and Combat Challenge Changes, what I mean by that is, our mark changing so it is not shared with the GWF at all. Some of you might say, some feats don't need to change, and yes, some have exceptions but some useless feats like Crushing Sheild, Cruel Cut Style, Iron Guard, Martial Mastery, Reckless Attacker, Jagged Blades, Take Measure, ETC....and the 16 other feats linked up with powers need to change and be reworked completely. Any relation to the GWF must changed. For them, not for us. We were the original class. The OP and the GWF came in and we were the base model for them. Seriously, the GF needs some love. @mimicking#6533@strumslinger@rgutscheradev@asterdahl
~Villains Menace was one of the go-to daily's for a GF. It provided amazing offensive abilities by dealing additional damage, and provided CC immunity, and 20% Damage Resistance..... Thats what the description says. So they nerfed the daily time by 4 seconds, going down to 10 seconds, which is a huge hit to the daily considering the long activation time, yet after the rework of the GF they never fixed the CC issue even though the buff description says "can not be controlled."
Villains Menace activation time, even though it was supposed to be addressed, is still way too long. it still gets way too interrupted easily, and this needs to be addressed. "Villain's Menace: Activation time reduced from 1.8s down to 1.6s, and it can now combo into other powers 0.4s early. This means if you cast Villain's Menace and immediately start activating other powers, you will be able to start them as early as 1.2s after activation."
This was already not a good start, but Villains Menace buff time needs to be reverted back to 14 seconds if this is what there attempt is at combating the significantly long time to activate. They have never addressed why it was nerfed. Not even in the blog post. I would love to see Villains Menace addressed in the future, reverted to 14 seconds, an activation time that is very quick for the temporary buff, and the CC immunity that was promised for the buff.
2.~Shield Glitch was never addressed either. I have videos of me and my friends holding up our shields and getting either 1 shotted by a TR or literally our shield would be pierced and wed be CC'd through it, even though you would clearly see it was up well before the adversaries attack. This was most noticeable with the HR, but TR's and CW's are also big culprits, when they would be right in front of me as I smash RB to combat them getting behind me or on the sides, id back up and create a distance where I am always in front of them. It didn't matter what I did, they still CC'd me through the shield. This has to be the most annoying issue with the class right now IMO. CC Through Shield- https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/7a572b03-141d-405d-9eee-0e45ec8888e8?gamerTag=The Guiido&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5
Additionally, not known to many, but this glitch on the GF goes very un-noticed, but when I would use an encounter, marking a target, being interrupted by mostly (CW's, HR's and TR's) my encounters and my main artifact would go back on cool down from 3-2-1 then I could activate it again. I would smash my buttons on my encounter powers, and my mark just for it to work. But to no avail, you can clearly see what I am talking about in the video.
The biggest issue of all, even more than the horrible Heroic and Paragon feats, is the fact the GWF was shared with us. Why on Earth, after 3 years, do they finally decide, that it's a good idea to finally change the ties we share?? Will they know what is desired to the GF and not desired to the GWF? Will they know what passives is meant for the classes? Feats? At Wills?? Seriously these are huge issues.
I can talk about this all day, and I would love too until I am blue in the face, but the problems still exist, and I will not stop until they are addressed, and fixed by the Developers. This goes for all the QoL Issues with Powers and overall, Bugs in the class, the GWF no longer being shared with the GF, Feats (Both Heroic, and Pragon) REWORK of ALL of our feats, and Combat Challenge Changes, what I mean by that is, our mark changing so it is not shared with the GWF at all. Some of you might say, some feats don't need to change, and yes, some have exceptions but some useless feats like Crushing Sheild, Cruel Cut Style, Iron Guard, Martial Mastery, Reckless Attacker, Jagged Blades, Take Measure, ETC....and the 16 other feats linked up with powers need to change and be reworked completely. Any relation to the GWF must changed. For them, not for us. We were the original class. The OP and the GWF came in and we were the base model for them. Seriously, the GF needs some love. @mimicking#6533@strumslinger@rgutscheradev@asterdahl
As far as I understand you want those changes adressed for PVP? Villains menace should give you a 14 second cc immunity instead of 10 seconds? Why do you need such a long frame of immunity in PVP, and don´t you think is overdone? You got your shield wich spends 100% cc immunity on top. We just witnessed a very long period of GF dominace in PVP, you want it back? Some classes just managed closed that huge gap a bit like hunter and warlock, even though being onecycled by a skilled PVP GF using the right buttons with the right setup. ITF+gladiators guile+ steel grace gives you a big advantage in terms of mobility atm. GF is near impossible to catch in dungeon, running ahead, no clue if tha´t counts in PVP atm too? In PVE you can chain VM in a group with a DC anyway.
About that shield delay I agree, it´s often the way you said, getting onehittet even blocking, maybe a ping issue, no clue. TR starts SE a millisecond after you lifted your shield and kills you. Maybe this is more an issue about SE, wich takes your defense into account the moment TR presses the button and not the moment the impact hits you? At least this also happens to other chars, starting shift but being onehittet despite hovering from spot 80ft away til mod 9, and now it also happens even you should be immune.
Using Threatening rush it´s a pain sometimes blocking, but the char goes on using at will powers instead of aggravating strike or shield slam, seems bugged to me.
No, what Proteus is saying is that Villain's Menace is broken. It doesn't grant cc immunity at all. With mod 10 it still doesn't grant cc immunity, although it says that it does, in the tooltip. Plus they have reduced the amount of time Villain's Menace is up to 10 seconds, down from 14.
And yes, this is a bigger issue in pvp rather than pve. The reason for that is because pvp is about controlling effects. Roots, stuns, prones. What should save a GF from above is Villain's Menace...but it doesn't. That's why trans elven battle became nearly mandatory for GF's. GWF's don't 'need' it: Determination. Most other toons have a dodge or foxes cunning etc. The GF has no choice but to shield up and TR's still cut right thru with their one shots. Roots still apply even if your are facing your shield in the direction of attack.
And let us not forget those ridiculous drain glyphs. Those glyphs killed GF dominance long before this current nerf. Not that the GF has ever 'dominated' pvp. The GF has only "been included" in the top tier of pvp'ers for about a year or so on Xbox. A place reserved for TR's since the beginning. To say otherwise, you would have to screen shot me the first page of top pvp'ers and show me a huge disparaging # of GF's vs every other class. No one can do that because it's never been the reality of things. There is, and has always been a fare mix of every toon type in the realm of top pvp players.
All that said......let us push this thread back to its original subject matter. Proteus took the time to bring up real issues. Let us talk about real solutions concerning those 'feats and broken mechanics' from the original post.
On PC drains are not that common any more. Maybe we talk about different worlds, xbox and PC defintely are different. And on PC the GF dominated PVP from mod 6 til mod 9 in terms of tankyness and burst damage. As said with right gear and setup. About VM and PVP I can´t tell, about PVE I can tell it works and provides cc immunity except repel from some monster wich push you back but do not disable. Arms of Hadar was bugged and even ignored Drufis cc immunity, now it´s fixed, wich spells do ignore VM in PVP ?
Thats the actual k/d ratio. the top GF´s get it above 100:1 on PC, some lower geared are worse. The only class that can do so is TR I would say. And remember this is mod 10, not to talk about mod 6-9
Just realized I used the words "at all" to describe the broken state of Villain's menace. I've not played pvp for going on 4 months now, but this should still be true. If I walk into a smoke bomb in the middle of a VM, I'll get dazed. Sometimes, roots apply, but not always.....and I've yet to figure that one out.
As for the pic. Yes the K/D ratios are pretty darn good on pc. But my statement still rings true in that there is an even mix of different types of toons on that top 25 list.
Drain glyphs may have gone by the waste side, but I always ran the anti drains regardless because, who wants to take chances.
Now for what I think is the reason 'some' GF's are represented in an OP fashion in pvp by way of K/D ratio.
A little backstory first. There are names on Xbox that every high IL GF knows. I met Andrew Las Vegas on Destiny before neverwinter was even released on Xbox. He's been #1 in pvp for awhile....top 5 anyways. I almost always run pugs because sometimes I can get Abrams, Proteus or another top player to 1v1 me. I usually lose, but it's no big deal as I enjoy the challenge more than fighting over node #2 for way too long. After 2 rotations I had Andrew at half health and he'd barely taken 10% of mine. Basically, it's he who gets the BC gets the Anvil, and we all know this......He jumps 3 times and runs back to his group as to say gg.
After further review, he is spec'd for being awesome while in his group....one might say unbeatable.
What I'm getting at, is that premades almost always consist of 'roughly' the same group composition...GF, DC, 2 TR's and a HR with slight variations. Dunks, buffs, heals and roots. With all of those synergies going on, I'm hard pressed to believe that the top GF's are just running around solo and killing at will, with little to no recourse on that bad decision. The 1v1 is rare......in a premade.....and premades are what all of the top pvp people run. Now I know I just said "all" again, grain of salt guys.
That's enough pvp talk for me on a thread that's here for discussing feats, powers and class features.
Comments
~No other class has 16 feats linked up with powers and thats a FACT
~We were one if not the first class to be created in this game, and its time for a revamp
~We are shared with the GWF and OP both of them were based off of us not the other way around
Its time for some updates in our class, thats all I want.
I don't care if we got nerfed, just fix the problems and disparities instead of nerfing things like Villains Menace and KC that didn't even work in the first place lol, how you're a GF and don't recognize the problems with the feats and general over view amazes me, maybe you haven't fully researched what I mean? perhaps you don't understand, but none the less, I and many other GF's and even GWF's recognize the problems.
All I have to do is wait it out and see what happens in the long awaited future.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
One outdamaged two heavy striker like GWF and SW only using Commander Strike, running a conquerer at 4k+.
Another 3.2 GF tanked Drufi with 120k HP unbuffed but 13k deflect (was a bit surprising) and had no issues doing so (conquerer).
Knights valor is a big plus to prevent parties from wiping at the second boss, superior to OP´s bubble popping time to time.
My GF is 3.1 and I think it´s a pretty strong char, no need to hide from any other class. I like playing it and I like tanking. He´s not prepared for FBI, maybe some time he will, maybe not.
@zachcampbell85 Maybe I am blind, but you dig a grave because you can´t run that supporter build any more in mod 10 based on an outdated armorset?
problem with drufi is to not throw you at the ice,and to aggro her away from ice pylars so to have them for ring of winter phase.That;s it.
A tanky GWf,could tank her aswell.
Second boss it is easy untill some party member decides to summon defenders companions like Shield for example then Gf is in trouble.
hatti is more difficult cause it can throw you in the cliff or use the aoe on your party GWfs and you get instakilled or be at 10% healthg at the edge of the cliff.
FBI is just to climb the mountain and fight the giant mobs.This is the challenge of the fbi.You passed it?good now fight in lazyness for 20 mins more to get ..10tt suplies in the end and to spend a 50k key in order to get an ancient weapon of 6k...
As for comander's strike i use it,but i don't like the power.i find the whole concept of it,silly.I wouldn;t mind a rework.
cause it gives fuel to Gf haters to continue to spread lies and misinformation.
PS:i think drufi can be soloed by any decent above 3,1 k good specced Gf.|it is just boring to do so and for non existant reward
It´s about the average player I meet in random groups (no max-buff-groups), who definitely get a challenge in this dungeon. Most of them not running at 4,3kIL.
The reward is redicules for sure, compared to the average time you need with suboptimal groups.
The fastest and best runs are done with a GF from my PoV, not with an OP. The class might need some changes, but it´s far away from being unplayable, weak or bugged as otherones.
If someone get´s bored using the same encounter and doesn´t like the mechanics any more, he might need some kind of change?
It is still difficult but predictable nonetheless.
Climbing up the mountain is tough cause of the hard hitting mobs +piercing everfrost.This is where 90% of wipes happen.I die there sometimes.
The other phases are predictable and you can die of bad luck and bad coordination.or bugs.(drufi not summoning her pylars)
As about IL it matters but in this dungeon what matters most is your stat allocation.You need max out defensive stats .A lesser geared but optimal specced Gf can do this .
As for OP vs GF ,i had a healadin at 2,8k and i respecced it to tank.The toon is booned etc..well i run one etos and one elol.i don;t play it.it is mega boring.You cannot die whatever mistake you do.
Binding oath=6 or 8 secs of immunity followed by templar;s wrath ,all this in justice tree with virtually no cooldown....sounds legit.
meanwhile devs nerfed steel defense.lol .trololol.
Commander;s strike is boring and creates problems.You are credited for damage done by others and also you need hard hitting encounters the most(GWf with IBS). So this powerr is not balanced in a sense that its results are based on a number of unpredicted factors.(party buffs,time to activate,offensive capabilities of GF,buffed stacked GWGs using IBs at the right time)
edit:as about steel defense ...since last patch steel defense for gwfs resist everfrost.lol.poor GWfs (glass cannons) needed a buff while tanks suffer from everfrost and get oneshotted outside of block.Nice balance.Nore qq from the GWf lobby in this game and GWfs might resist all damage at all.maybe then they will stop complaining and ask nerfs for other classes.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10142232-patch-notes:-nw.65.20160801c.18
"Classes and Balance
Certain class powers no longer cause certain bosses to give up on their dedication to violence.
Great Weapon Fighter: Steel Defense now grants Everfrost damage immunity during its effect."
maybe they intended only for GWF and then changed their minds when they saw noumerous GFs die there.Could be.
I reported it twice as a bug, once when mod10 was on preview and once when it hit live. It got fixed in the patch you mentioned.
I think they intended it for Swordmaster and wrote GWF by mistake.
How could the properly built dps GF cast (Swings in ACT) CS 26 times w/i 42 sec - more likely 18 sec as the encounter length was that long by ACT? Let's calculate w/ 42 sec. It would mean GF was able to hit - not just initiate but also finish the attack - every 42/26~= 1.62 sec/hit (18/26~=0.7sec/hit w/ combat time)
Similar calculation could be done for the non properly built GF. 45:16 for the whole log (30:20 combat time by ACT) and 839 swings. Let's calculate it w/ 45:16=2716sec -> 2716/839~=3.24sec/hit (1820/839~=2.17sec/hit w/ combat time).
Note that calculating w/ the whole time still means non-stop casting (there is always a mob to hit). I think it is impossible but prove me I am wrong and I will agree w/ you there is a serious (game mechanic) issue w/ CS. I think it is the good old log issue we have met in previous mod and it is also "cheating" ACT not just the in game Paingiver chart.
You could have just asked how it works you know, rather than assuming I was falsifying stuff.
Peace
A GF running CS and a dps GF dealing these insane single strikes with Griffins wrath 4mio or AoD >5mio
...demorgorgon was dead in 3 seconds, looked like a twohit for me
I posted logs from 3k GF and 3k++ GWF in this thread (offtopic)
Maybe tehfabricant can do a FBI running DC-CW-OP and two conq-GF to do some 20 second kills from those bosses?
Biggest hits i recognized were 16 mio in a FBI run, but that surely goes far better depending on your setup and buffs.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1221760/the-ultimate-crusaders-fangbreaker-island-guide-manual-video-walkthrough
One such "crit" Gf parted with another DPS GF and with out OP they will not make it to the top of the mountain,except if they are in cheesy parties ,running HV+HP plus ambush rings on ranged chars.
Demo is in no way representation of a DPS potential of a class since
1)it is a single target raid
2)it matters who will hit first and qho has highest burst available
A true comparison to a DPS potential between a well specced 3k GWF or a 3,2k thaum CW ,and a 3k DPS GF would be a cn run,with out other GF .
The single GF could use ITF or no,that would be his preference.
The GWF or the Thaum would win by having way more more DPS.
I am willing to bet if anyone wants.......A paranoid delussion companion.if my side win ofcourse i expect my companion
the old bug where you have more ability score point....129 ability points lol ...sudden rings on augments....you know old bugs that were fixed.
And no external program used like hearing commanders strike while the GF in party has not it slotted.Ah old bugs.thankfully they are all fixed!!!!
i am also betting that none will take the challenge in first place.Cause most of the Gf haters deep inside of you you know you talk BS.
As a top end GF my main priority is to have a build that does not go down, ever, PvP comes second to that and building for PvE first hurts my PvP performance, but am ok with that, am just a casual PvP'er but I'd like, maybe purely on a subjective level alone, to see GF's much more tanky and am willing to lose base damage for it.
For balance issues, it probably wouldn't work, it's just the way I see the class, only Cryptic really has the data to show what's what.
So far for Mod 10 we've been buffed, Steel Grace is amazing, Steel Blitz is a really good alternative to Combat Superiority if you are not a Conc and most of all ITF no longer roots you when you cast it. Mod 10 is a great mod to be a GF.
In PvP with OH Steel Grace, I have a 30% CC resist and it's nice for PvP and PvE and I don't use Elven Battle.
mod10:
Average Gf lost 60% damage from ITF which is a universal power,almost always slotted.
what we got in exchange?Steel Grace.How much it gives?5% crit....
So we are not buffed we got nerfed HARD.
Also i don;t see a big deal casting ITF while on the move.Ok it is nice but not something that will make a change.
Also I am adamantly against the new mark animation.The damn thing bugs out ,you lose time if you run towards a target and then aggravate strike.it tends to cannot smoothly change between tab and agr strike,instead you get any single at will slotted.
That means vs orcus..death.
Steel Blitz is mediocre at best.
Combat superiority is good ,but problem is in end game content you will go shield talent -shield defense.if you want to tank.
Hatti and turtle with the wind or whatever drain your guard between each phase.Shield talent is needed there.
Cryptic gave something that if you want to use you must forfeit your tankinesss and forced us to change.
What causes problems is Com strike ,cause Thunder as you see ,the nerf brigade is still strong ,orchestrated by its Cw maestro and they still cry all day and complain.
Bringing what else?edemo/demo acts...lol
There is only one person that spreads hate atm imo, so maybe calm down and try to accept different opinions.
Anyway, I am fine with GF dps builds but my char is going the other way and never dealt that kind of damage anyway.
The costs and the efforts to buy companion and artifacts for dps are too much, since I allready have another class, wich is build for a pure striker.
Just respecced to Tactition tankspec and hope it will work somehow.
Only want to state again, GF is in a good spot atm, not in a bad. If you go PE and chat in lfg, you are the most requested class beside a DC.
That´s one of the reasons why I play this class btw and why I go support/tank.
@thefabricant since your suggestion for ItF was very similar to how they ended up tweaking it, do you have a recommendation for how CS could be adjusted? Where it's still a viable tool for helping GFs and their parties?
~Villains Menace was one of the go-to daily's for a GF. It provided amazing offensive abilities by dealing additional damage, and provided CC immunity, and 20% Damage Resistance..... Thats what the description says. So they nerfed the daily time by 4 seconds, going down to 10 seconds, which is a huge hit to the daily considering the long activation time, yet after the rework of the GF they never fixed the CC issue even though the buff description says "can not be controlled."
Villains Menace activation time, even though it was supposed to be addressed, is still way too long. it still gets way too interrupted easily, and this needs to be addressed. "Villain's Menace: Activation time reduced from 1.8s down to 1.6s, and it can now combo into other powers 0.4s early. This means if you cast Villain's Menace and immediately start activating other powers, you will be able to start them as early as 1.2s after activation."
This was already not a good start, but Villains Menace buff time needs to be reverted back to 14 seconds if this is what there attempt is at combating the significantly long time to activate. They have never addressed why it was nerfed. Not even in the blog post. I would love to see Villains Menace addressed in the future, reverted to 14 seconds, an activation time that is very quick for the temporary buff, and the CC immunity that was promised for the buff.
~Shield Glitch was never addressed either. I have videos of me and my friends holding up our shields and getting either 1 shotted by a TR or literally our shield would be pierced and wed be CC'd through it, even though you would clearly see it was up well before the adversaries attack. This was most noticeable with the HR, but TR's and CW's are also big culprits, when they would be right in front of me as I smash RB to combat them getting behind me or on the sides, id back up and create a distance where I am always in front of them. It didn't matter what I did, they still CC'd me through the shield. This has to be the most annoying issue with the class right now IMO.
CC Through Shield- https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/7a572b03-141d-405d-9eee-0e45ec8888e8?gamerTag=The Guiido&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5
TR 1 Shot Through Shield- https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/55019ba3-04d7-477b-9703-771d854dd810?gamerTag=ZetswayLives&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5
Additionally, not known to many, but this glitch on the GF goes very un-noticed, but when I would use an encounter, marking a target, being interrupted by mostly (CW's, HR's and TR's) my encounters and my main artifact would go back on cool down from 3-2-1 then I could activate it again. I would smash my buttons on my encounter powers, and my mark just for it to work. But to no avail, you can clearly see what I am talking about in the video.
CC Interruption Shield and Encounter Glitch- https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/b727adf8-4dc8-4782-919f-f0f49e2e176f?gamerTag=The Guiido&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5
The biggest issue of all, even more than the horrible Heroic and Paragon feats, is the fact the GWF was shared with us. Why on Earth, after 3 years, do they finally decide, that it's a good idea to finally change the ties we share?? Will they know what is desired to the GF and not desired to the GWF? Will they know what passives is meant for the classes? Feats? At Wills?? Seriously these are huge issues.
I can talk about this all day, and I would love too until I am blue in the face, but the problems still exist, and I will not stop until they are addressed, and fixed by the Developers. This goes for all the QoL Issues with Powers and overall, Bugs in the class, the GWF no longer being shared with the GF, Feats (Both Heroic, and Pragon) REWORK of ALL of our feats, and Combat Challenge Changes, what I mean by that is, our mark changing so it is not shared with the GWF at all. Some of you might say, some feats don't need to change, and yes, some have exceptions but some useless feats like Crushing Sheild, Cruel Cut Style, Iron Guard, Martial Mastery, Reckless Attacker, Jagged Blades, Take Measure, ETC....and the 16 other feats linked up with powers need to change and be reworked completely. Any relation to the GWF must changed. For them, not for us. We were the original class. The OP and the GWF came in and we were the base model for them. Seriously, the GF needs some love. @mimicking#6533 @strumslinger @rgutscheradev @asterdahl
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Villains menace should give you a 14 second cc immunity instead of 10 seconds?
Why do you need such a long frame of immunity in PVP, and don´t you think is overdone?
You got your shield wich spends 100% cc immunity on top. We just witnessed a very long period of GF dominace in PVP, you want it back?
Some classes just managed closed that huge gap a bit like hunter and warlock, even though being onecycled by a skilled PVP GF using the right buttons with the right setup. ITF+gladiators guile+ steel grace gives you a big advantage in terms of mobility atm. GF is near impossible to catch in dungeon, running ahead, no clue if tha´t counts in PVP atm too?
In PVE you can chain VM in a group with a DC anyway.
About that shield delay I agree, it´s often the way you said, getting onehittet even blocking, maybe a ping issue, no clue.
TR starts SE a millisecond after you lifted your shield and kills you.
Maybe this is more an issue about SE, wich takes your defense into account the moment TR presses the button and not the moment the impact hits you? At least this also happens to other chars, starting shift but being onehittet despite hovering from spot 80ft away til mod 9, and now it also happens even you should be immune.
Using Threatening rush it´s a pain sometimes blocking, but the char goes on using at will powers instead of aggravating strike or shield slam, seems bugged to me.
And yes, this is a bigger issue in pvp rather than pve. The reason for that is because pvp is about controlling effects. Roots, stuns, prones. What should save a GF from above is Villain's Menace...but it doesn't. That's why trans elven battle became nearly mandatory for GF's. GWF's don't 'need' it: Determination. Most other toons have a dodge or foxes cunning etc. The GF has no choice but to shield up and TR's still cut right thru with their one shots. Roots still apply even if your are facing your shield in the direction of attack.
And let us not forget those ridiculous drain glyphs. Those glyphs killed GF dominance long before this current nerf. Not that the GF has ever 'dominated' pvp. The GF has only "been included" in the top tier of pvp'ers for about a year or so on Xbox. A place reserved for TR's since the beginning. To say otherwise, you would have to screen shot me the first page of top pvp'ers and show me a huge disparaging # of GF's vs every other class. No one can do that because it's never been the reality of things. There is, and has always been a fare mix of every toon type in the realm of top pvp players.
All that said......let us push this thread back to its original subject matter. Proteus took the time to bring up real issues. Let us talk about real solutions concerning those 'feats and broken mechanics' from the original post.
And on PC the GF dominated PVP from mod 6 til mod 9 in terms of tankyness and burst damage. As said with right gear and setup.
About VM and PVP I can´t tell, about PVE I can tell it works and provides cc immunity except repel from some monster wich push you back but do not disable.
Arms of Hadar was bugged and even ignored Drufis cc immunity, now it´s fixed, wich spells do ignore VM in PVP ?
Thats the actual k/d ratio. the top GF´s get it above 100:1 on PC, some lower geared are worse. The only class that can do so is TR I would say.
And remember this is mod 10, not to talk about mod 6-9
As for the pic. Yes the K/D ratios are pretty darn good on pc. But my statement still rings true in that there is an even mix of different types of toons on that top 25 list.
Drain glyphs may have gone by the waste side, but I always ran the anti drains regardless because, who wants to take chances.
Now for what I think is the reason 'some' GF's are represented in an OP fashion in pvp by way of K/D ratio.
A little backstory first. There are names on Xbox that every high IL GF knows. I met Andrew Las Vegas on Destiny before neverwinter was even released on Xbox. He's been #1 in pvp for awhile....top 5 anyways. I almost always run pugs because sometimes I can get Abrams, Proteus or another top player to 1v1 me. I usually lose, but it's no big deal as I enjoy the challenge more than fighting over node #2 for way too long. After 2 rotations I had Andrew at half health and he'd barely taken 10% of mine. Basically, it's he who gets the BC gets the Anvil, and we all know this......He jumps 3 times and runs back to his group as to say gg.
After further review, he is spec'd for being awesome while in his group....one might say unbeatable.
What I'm getting at, is that premades almost always consist of 'roughly' the same group composition...GF, DC, 2 TR's and a HR with slight variations. Dunks, buffs, heals and roots. With all of those synergies going on, I'm hard pressed to believe that the top GF's are just running around solo and killing at will, with little to no recourse on that bad decision. The 1v1 is rare......in a premade.....and premades are what all of the top pvp people run. Now I know I just said "all" again, grain of salt guys.
That's enough pvp talk for me on a thread that's here for discussing feats, powers and class features.