test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official Feedback Thread: Hunter Ranger changes

1222325272855

Comments

  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    [Edited to remove discussion of Thorned Roots/control change, since it was quickly answered by @amenar]

    I like the changes on Thorned Roots/biting snares, but they don't answer one of our major problems in pvp: the burst from Thorned Roots on control immune targets, 250%, is not enough. Why should anyone using a control immunity be granted an additional 75% DR to Thorned Roots, THE major source of damage from trappers?

    Impossible To Catch already grants deflect (75% DR) and control immunity. This means that Thorned Roots grants 1/16 of 250% weapon damage against a TR in ITC (if I'm correct about how the code operates), the only time that those using a particular build are visible. That's just under 16% weapon damage. Even if it were balanced against DOT at a 1000% weapon damage boost, it would still be only 64% weapon damage.

    Unstoppable grants 50% DR, so the burst is reduced to 125% weapon damage, which is still inconsequential against someone with 170-200k HP.

    At least half the DOT should be converted to burst, in my opinion (so 800% weapon damage). And the charge refill time of Cordon of Arrows, at 20 seconds, needs to come down to 12 or lower.

    Additionally, as others have said, the cooldown of fox's cunning/fox shift remains too long what with the several nerfs to cooldown reductions. I'll also add my vote for a cooldown reduction to cordon/gushing wound - in addition to a fast animation for gushing wound - since the buffs make it look like our potential source of burst damage in pvp. Its animation is just no use against moving targets.
    Post edited by feanor70118 on
  • alliera7311alliera7311 Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Good to see cd reductions but don't forget about Fox Shift. I doubt this will be enough to get the rotation flow the same.
    Guild: TLO GH 20
    Contact:@EmeraldG1173
    Main: EMERALD LEGEND
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    amenar said:

    Another quick update. The build process is slower than my work, so the build you all got recently is missing the last set of changes I mentioned. Those changes, along with some more, should be in the next build, which we're hoping will hit preview this Friday, barring any problems. Here is the further list of changes for the HR:

    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Increased damage bonus for Encounter powers to 15%, up from 10%.
    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Should now always consume the on-next-hit damage when the next time a power deals damage.
    • Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Damage increased ~300%.
    • Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Constricting Arrow: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Crushing Roots: The Daze effect can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Disruptive Shot: The Daze component of this power can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Biting Snares: The Master Trapper effect can no longer proc multiple times by rapidly switching stances.
    • Hunter Ranger: Grasping Roots (Weak & Strong), Thorned Roots: The Root effect can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Charge refill time reduced to 12s, down from 15s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Longstrider Shot: Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.
    • Hunter Ranger: Marauder's Rush: Range increased back to 83'.
    • Hunter Ranger: Pathfinder's Action: Now grants 5% Deflection Chance per rank as stated, instead of only granting 13% at Rank 4.
    • Hunter Ranger: Strong Grasping Roots, Thorned Roots: The spiral roots/vines VFX should now display the entire duration of the Root, instead of ending early.
    • Hunter Ranger: Thorned Roots: The damage over time component of this power no longer has its duration reduced by control resistances, nor is its duration increased by control bonuses. If you apply Thorned Roots to a target, then all of the ticks of damage will apply to them, even if the Root effect is removed earlier. Targets that are completely immune to Roots still get the individual burst of damage instead of the DoT.
    • Hunter Ranger: Weak Grasping Roots: Now plays one of the standard immobilized/rooted VFX on the target while they are affected.
    Note that some of these patch notes supersede previous patch notes.

    Also, I looked into the Cordon of Arrows bug that prevents it from critting if it is more than 50 feet away from you. This is super weird, and also totally happening. The same bug is also affecting the DC power Chains of Blazing Light. TOP MEN are looking into it. TOP. MEN. Currently unsure if we'll be able to get a fix in for this module, but
    DOH! This looks like love for trappers. Why aren't we focusing on archery/combat?

  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    amenar said:



    • Hunter Ranger: Longstrider Shot: Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.


      WHY? it's a 4 second diminishing buff, and you can only get 2 stacks for 1 second, and it takes proper timing, was this not working as intended? THIS IS DISAPPOINTING.
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    amenar said:


    EDIT: i am a bit saddened that thorned roots is no longer affected by control bonus, wonder why they did this. not many players even use control bonus and i enjoy having a good amount, i know that master trapper buff gives 60% control bonus for 10 seconds i think but still kind of sad to know this.

    isn't thorned roots a control encounter, makes no sense to remove the whole control bonus increasing its time. and since this wasn't a bug it means its a nerf to thorned roots. another tally for the nerfs tally sheet. (their is no nerf tally sheet fyi its a joke)

    The actual Root CC that Thorned Roots applies is still affected by control resistances and bonuses, just not the DoT.
    i know you said that in your prior post, the dot is no longer affect by control bonus which is why i am sad loved having my thorned roots last longer on mobs.
    wait... if thorned roots last longer then doesnt the dot refresh as until thorned roots expire. also control bonus doesn't change too much pve wise. my 100% control bonus feels as if i only gain about 3-5 seconds, can anyone tell me how control bonus affects the duration.

    like what percent gives how many seconds? and what is the control bonus cap?
    for example 10% control bonus gives 1 second where 50% only gives5 seconds and 100% gives 8 seconds (soft cap vs hard cap i dont know a lot about these)
  • jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    this might actual be good for us in PVP if elven battle just stops cc but still takes damage from roots that will be a good thing. I with hold other comments til test every thing.

    Also would like total up dated list of what is already changed or changed back and what is being changed so have just 1 page to work with on preview a lot has been throw out there and adjustment have been made so some of previous list are invalid
    Ara
  • amenaramenar Member, NW_CrypticDev Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Sorry, missed a note, and one that wasn't good to miss:
    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Biting Snares: Now directly increases the duration of Thorned Roots by 60%, in addition to your other control powers. (This allows Biting Snares to still increase the duration of the DoT that Thorned Roots deals, even though it is no longer affected by control strengths & resistances)
    I updated my previous post to include this, as well.
  • krondhorkrondhor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 150 Arc User
    amenar said:

    Another quick update. The build process is slower than my work, so the build you all got recently is missing the last set of changes I mentioned. Those changes, along with some more, should be in the next build, which we're hoping will hit preview this Friday, barring any problems. Here is the further list of changes for the HR:

    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Increased damage bonus for Encounter powers to 15%, up from 10%.
    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Ambush: Should now always consume the on-next-hit damage when the next time a power deals damage.
    • Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Damage increased ~300%.
    • Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Constricting Arrow: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Crushing Roots: The Daze effect can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Disruptive Shot: The Daze component of this power can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Biting Snares: The Master Trapper effect can no longer proc multiple times by rapidly switching stances.
    • Hunter Ranger: Grasping Roots (Weak & Strong), Thorned Roots: The Root effect can no longer be Deflected.
    • Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Charge refill time reduced to 12s, down from 15s.
    • Hunter Ranger: Longstrider Shot: Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.
    • Hunter Ranger: Marauder's Rush: Range increased back to 83'.
    • Hunter Ranger: Pathfinder's Action: Now grants 5% Deflection Chance per rank as stated, instead of only granting 13% at Rank 4.
    • Hunter Ranger: Strong Grasping Roots, Thorned Roots: The spiral roots/vines VFX should now display the entire duration of the Root, instead of ending early.
    • Hunter Ranger: Thorned Roots: The damage over time component of this power no longer has its duration reduced by control resistances, nor is its duration increased by control bonuses. If you apply Thorned Roots to a target, then all of the ticks of damage will apply to them, even if the Root effect is removed earlier. Targets that are completely immune to Roots still get the individual burst of damage instead of the DoT.
    • Hunter Ranger: Weak Grasping Roots: Now plays one of the standard immobilized/rooted VFX on the target while they are affected.
    Note that some of these patch notes supersede previous patch notes.

    Also, I looked into the Cordon of Arrows bug that prevents it from critting if it is more than 50 feet away from you. This is super weird, and also totally happening. The same bug is also affecting the DC power Chains of Blazing Light. TOP MEN are looking into it. TOP. MEN. Currently unsure if we'll be able to get a fix in for this module, but
    Thanks for the quick update, and good news for them to hit preview on friday.
    I see some our reported bugs fixed, that´s pretty nice to see, and some work going on on the power boost/cooldown, I hope you can go through them all, also don´t forget of Cordons of Arrow that right now has an insane charge refill time of 20s.
    But the more important of all, I thank you to listening to our community and work with us close together, this after years of silence make feel us more helpful and comfortable to keep doing our best to support this game further.
    GRAVITY X GAME
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    So, if control bonus no longer affects Thorned Roots, what exactly does it do? I see this being done to balance out the deflect/roots change, but, again, what does control bonus do, if anything? And if it does nothing, this calls for a rewrite to the trapper capstone and a reallocation of stats in every item that grants control bonus. As it stands, this is, in part, a 37.5% nerf to Thorned Roots. Why?

    Also, on the burst from Thorned Roots on control immune targets: 250% is not enough. Before the nerf, we were talking about the DOT being 1600% weapon damage over 8 seconds. Now it's 1000% over 5 seconds. Why should anyone using a control immunity be granted an additional 75% DR to Thorned Roots, THE major source of damage from trappers?

    Impossible To Catch already grants deflect (75% DR) and control immunity. This means that Thorned Roots grants 1/16 of 250% weapon damage against a TR in ITC (if I'm correct about how the code operates), the only time that those using a particular build are visible. That's just under 16% weapon damage. Even if it were balanced against DOT at a 1000% weapon damage boost, it would still be only 64% weapon damage.

    Unstoppable grants 50% DR, so the burst is reduced to 125% weapon damage, which is still inconsequential against someone with 170-200k HP.

    At least half the DOT should be converted to burst, in my opinion (at the old rate, so 800% weapon damage). And the charge refill time of Cordon of Arrows, at 18 seconds, needs to come down.

    control bonus increase control effect durations
    i loved having the dot on control bonus being increased as well as the control itself but they nerfed how control bonus affects the dot on thorned roots. (hopefully they didn't nerf the refresh of thorned roots dot cause if thorned roots last longer the dot shouldn't start ticking till after the root is gone, as in the dot should hurt for as long as the root is on and however long the dot actually lasts)

    i am also curious on how control bonus affects the controls.
    like how much control bonus affects the duration, for example how much duration would 10% control bonus give, how much longer would our roots last. i don't know but i do know control bonus affects the duration of controls,
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    amenar said:

    Sorry, missed a note, and one that wasn't good to miss:

    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Biting Snares: Now directly increases the duration of Thorned Roots by 60%, in addition to your other control powers. (This allows Biting Snares to still increase the duration of the DoT that Thorned Roots deals, even though it is no longer affected by control strengths & resistances)
    I updated my previous post to include this, as well.
    nice to know thanks +1
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    amenar said:


    Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Damage increased ~300%.
    Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    @amenar: I am still mystified as to why you are buffing this power to the extent that you are. The only time I see this working better than Thorn Ward is against a pack of mobs where you want to focus down one enemy in particular. Thorn Ward wins out in every other instance.
    amenar said:


    Also, I looked into the Cordon of Arrows bug that prevents it from critting if it is more than 50 feet away from you. This is super weird, and also totally happening. The same bug is also affecting the DC power Chains of Blazing Light. TOP MEN are looking into it. TOP. MEN.

    Nice to see you are on top of things and a shout out to @ralexinor for bringing this to the devs' attention. Nice to have you back to some extent even if you aren't playing. Utmost respect!

    However, I am perplexed that the changes to Archery and Combat are coming much slower, if at all. They are the 2 trees that need the most help. Other than the 10% increase to Prey for Archery and 50% buff to CtG I see no major changes for Archers and Combat which is discouraging as those are the trees my two mains play.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Similar to the archery 5/5/5 crit severity and power on crits, battle crazed could give a max of 15% deflect and 15-25% deflect severity instead of LS, while in melee stance only.
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    the best way to fix hr as a whole is to remove the 5 target limit, though i don't mind this limit i can tell you it hurts the dps of hr's in pve, i don't think it will help much besides matches with over 5 people for pvp
  • zonoske#5272 zonoske Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    Nice. But what's the update on Swiftness of the Fox?
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    can someone explain control bonus.

    like what percent gives what extra seconds.

    try to keep it too thorned roots since that is the most important control trappers have or to crushing roots as the daze is helping and i would like to know how control bonus/strength is affecting these skills.

    lets say i have 50% control bonus active at all times and master trapper gives 60% for 10 seconds when active for a total of 110% control bonus.

    this is from neverwinters page
    Grasping Roots is a Hunter Ranger Class Mechanic. Certain powers will apply either Strong or Weak Grasping Roots to the Hunter Ranger's targets.

    Hunter Ranger's which specialize in the Trapper Feat Tree will be able to apply Thorned Roots instead of Grasping Roots.

    Grasping Roots do not actually root the target. Targets become entangled and have their movement disrupted in a manner which is a mixture between a leash and a rubber band effect.

    my question...
    what does control bonus actually do in the long run and how much extra seconds do control bonus give?
    based off the description control resistance should actually affect roots as they are like glue and any movement modifier can free you from them instead of a stat like control resistance/tenacity. am i right about this?
    what is the soft or hard cap of control bonus? when is it that you have too much or too little?

    EDIT: example with power
    soft cap vs hard cap
    100 power gives 100 damage
    after 100 power soft cap kicks in and it now takes double to gain the same power
    so 300 power is 200 damage
    then hard cap kicks in and it takes quadruple to gain same damage
    so 1100 power is 300 damage
    this is just an example of how soft and hard cap works
    soft cap takes double the work to gain same damage, were as hard cap takes quadruple the work to gain same number of damage but this is not based of neverwinters caping, as i don't know it.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    amenar said:



    • Hunter Ranger: Longstrider Shot: Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.


      WHY? it's a 4 second diminishing buff, and you can only get 2 stacks for 1 second, and it takes proper timing, was this not working as intended? THIS IS DISAPPOINTING.
    It's only the speed increase that diminishes Duru. The 40% damage buff stays at 40% for the duration.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • kaudilhokaudilho Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited July 2016



    That's what we really needed, i hope this is not the last change for pvp hr's.
    Harding Grim
    Guild:
    Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
    Drider Server- TheWolves
    youtube channel
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    lirithiel said:

    amenar said:


    Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Damage increased ~300%.
    Hunter Ranger: Commanding Shot: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
    @amenar: I am still mystified as to why you are buffing this power to the extent that you are. The only time I see this working better than Thorn Ward is against a pack of mobs where you want to focus down one enemy in particular. Thorn Ward wins out in every other instance.
    It's indeed a huge buff, tbh i would rather more versatility than damage, the cast time it's really long and can be easly interrupted,

  • amenaramenar Member, NW_CrypticDev Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    Nice. But what's the update on Swiftness of the Fox?

    Good question! Here is the current patch note for some upcoming changes for it:
    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Swiftness of the Fox: Now triggers from more powers. Ranged Encounter and At-Will powers reduce the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers, and vice versa. Daily powers reduce the cooldown of all of your Encounter powers.
    And for clarification, here is the updated tooltip:

    Your Melee Encounter & At-Will powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    Your Ranged Encounter & At-Will powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    Your Daily powers shorten the cooldown of all your Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.

    What this has done in practice - alongside the other changes to recharge times, Swiftness of the Fox no longer multi-proccing on group fights, etc. - is that every couple of rotations, where I get "messed up" and don't have my CDs lined up properly, is I use a Daily or AW once or twice and all of the appropriate Encounters are off CD. The Daily change, in particular, feels nice because if I swap into melee stance and go "HAMSTER, they all have 2s left" I can cast a Daily without the need to swap back to ranged stance. It's also nice that I feel like whenever my rotation gets messed up, casting a Daily or AW feels like it is contributing toward my goal of "cast Encounters all day long" instead of just filling time.

    I look forward to getting this into the hands of our dedicated HRs and seeing how this works out for you guys.
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    ^ Sounds awesome
  • landelmerlandelmer Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    delete-question answered
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    amenar said:

    Nice. But what's the update on Swiftness of the Fox?

    Good question! Here is the current patch note for some upcoming changes for it:
    • Hunter Ranger: Feat: Swiftness of the Fox: Now triggers from more powers. Ranged Encounter and At-Will powers reduce the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers, and vice versa. Daily powers reduce the cooldown of all of your Encounter powers.
    And for clarification, here is the updated tooltip:

    Your Melee Encounter & At-Will powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    Your Ranged Encounter & At-Will powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    Your Daily powers shorten the cooldown of all your Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.

    What this has done in practice - alongside the other changes to recharge times, Swiftness of the Fox no longer multi-proccing on group fights, etc. - is that every couple of rotations, where I get "messed up" and don't have my CDs lined up properly, is I use a Daily or AW once or twice and all of the appropriate Encounters are off CD. The Daily change, in particular, feels nice because if I swap into melee stance and go "****, they all have 2s left" I can cast a Daily without the need to swap back to ranged stance. It's also nice that I feel like whenever my rotation gets messed up, casting a Daily or AW feels like it is contributing toward my goal of "cast Encounters all day long" instead of just filling time.

    I look forward to getting this into the hands of our dedicated HRs and seeing how this works out for you guys.
    this is by far the most helpful change for the hr, thank you got my thumbs up. lets continue this pace guys and @amenar: is it possible to have oak skin show on its tooltip just how much defense we are gaining. would also like to know if the defense has changed in the preview servers.
  • ralexinorralexinor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    @amenar

    I think you need to disable at wills and dailies reducing cooldowns for pvp at least, and also by doing this you're putting combat and archery ages away from trapper again.

    By doing this you're introducing the permadaze meta back into pvp again especially with the fixes to dazes and roots.

    Additionally, if you're going ahead with this, please consider toning down the damage of Thorned Roots or you'll have too much imbalance between paths again. Buff the base damage of the hr class so the trapper tree doesn't see any net changes, but swiftness of the fox and thorned roots will set the path well and above archery and combat unless you give them a 100-200% damage bonus.
  • jokeey#0578 jokeey Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    ^^^ you ever happy with anything??
  • zonoske#5272 zonoske Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    I'm eager to see how the current changes to Swiftness of the Fox go.
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    @jokeey#0578 it's hard to argue with @ralexinor when he is correct.
  • jokeey#0578 jokeey Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Yeah sorry I thought he put pve for some reason dunno why.. Yeah pvp yeah I understand that I don't play pvp anyway waste of time... I'll shut up now lol
  • krondhorkrondhor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    ralexinor said:

    @amenar



    I think you need to disable at wills and dailies reducing cooldowns for pvp at least, and also by doing this you're putting combat and archery ages away from trapper again.



    By doing this you're introducing the permadaze meta back into pvp again especially with the fixes to dazes and roots.



    Additionally, if you're going ahead with this, please consider toning down the damage of Thorned Roots or you'll have too much imbalance between paths again. Buff the base damage of the hr class so the trapper tree doesn't see any net changes, but swiftness of the fox and thorned roots will set the path well and above archery and combat unless you give them a 100-200% damage bonus.

    +1 At-Wills not having CD by themself will imbalance SotF mechanic again, while the Daily contribution alone (is enough) and is a pretty good idea.
    GRAVITY X GAME
  • genjundeadgenjundead Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    krondhor said:

    ralexinor said:

    @amenar



    I think you need to disable at wills and dailies reducing cooldowns for pvp at least, and also by doing this you're putting combat and archery ages away from trapper again.



    By doing this you're introducing the permadaze meta back into pvp again especially with the fixes to dazes and roots.



    Additionally, if you're going ahead with this, please consider toning down the damage of Thorned Roots or you'll have too much imbalance between paths again. Buff the base damage of the hr class so the trapper tree doesn't see any net changes, but swiftness of the fox and thorned roots will set the path well and above archery and combat unless you give them a 100-200% damage bonus.

    +1 At-Wills not having CD by themself will imbalance SotF mechanic again, while the Daily contribution alone (is enough) and is a pretty good idea.
    i can agree but i don't pvp at all and the only dailies i use is forest ghost and cold steel hurricane.
  • zonoske#5272 zonoske Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    Let's not forget HR's damage isnt all that great in PVP.
This discussion has been closed.