I see a ITF nerf

juliofp70

Well, like we know ITF is the GF main weapon. Seeing how bondings are working at preview if this go live ITF will be way overpowered... for example: Neverember Guard + bondings proc at the same time + no cooldown = 56k ITF all time (for some of us)

Then comes the angry people complaining about this.... You can guess what will happen to ITF if they dont fix bondings.

The problem is i think they will use this to nerf ITF and only after a ITF nerf they fix bondings claining that its the right think to do...

sethan93

juliofp70 said:

if they dont fix bondings.

they already said that bonding will be fixed/nerfed

oliboyph

juliofp70 said:

Well, like we know ITF is the GF main weapon. Seeing how bondings are working at preview if this go live ITF will be way overpowered... for example: Neverember Guard + bondings proc at the same time + no cooldown = 56k ITF all time (for some of us)

Then comes the angry people complaining about this.... You can guess what will happen to ITF if they dont fix bondings.

The problem is i think they will use this to nerf ITF and only after a ITF nerf they fix bondings claining that its the right think to do...

I guess a nerf could be acceptable. But capping it would be the death of gearing tacticians. I really hope they don't go in that direction.

dfnce

Worst nerf would be "fixing" every GF skill "dealing too much damage" as some CW suggest, but devs would fix ITF as well in end. ITF how it works for few % should be changed.

Even with ITF change, whine won't stop for sure (why not me but ... GF is best cc, GF is best burst, GF is best tank, GF is best single target damage etc...).

craolus

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

If there is a way to build for all of those together while maxing out TACT buff I don't know of it. GF is beautiful because it COULD do all of those things but you have to choose your path to do damage, or to tank super hard, or to buff super well.

urabask

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

The two tank classes are the best two tanks? You don't say.

craolus said:

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

If there is a way to build for all of those together while maxing out TACT buff I don't know of it. GF is beautiful because it COULD do all of those things but you have to choose your path to do damage, or to tank super hard, or to buff super well.

Tanking well is more dependent on being swordmaster than it is about what paragon feats you choose.

oliboyph

urabask said:

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

The two tank classes are the best two tanks? You don't say.

Where's my Nick Cage meme?

juliofp70

dfnce said:

Worst nerf would be "fixing" every GF skill "dealing too much damage" as some CW suggest, but devs would fix ITF as well in end. ITF how it works for few % should be changed.

Even with ITF change, whine won't stop for sure (why not me but ... GF is best cc, GF is best burst, GF is best tank, GF is best single target damage etc...).

For a pvp gf yes... not for a pve gf like me. I would prefer to do less damage than i ITF nerf.

juliofp70

urabask said:

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

The two tank classes are the best two tanks? You don't say.

actually when comparing geared GF and geared OP pallys can still tank better than GF. But GF with massive buff dont need to do long tanking so have this advantage

urabask

juliofp70 said:

urabask said:

xsayajinx1 said:

GF is best cc? No!

GF is best burst? Yes!

GF is best tank? Yeah, probably together with OPs

GF is best single target damage? Yes!

The two tank classes are the best two tanks? You don't say.

actually when comparing geared GF and geared OP pallys can still tank better than GF. But GF with massive buff dont need to do long tanking so have this advantage

GF generates more threat and can be immune to damage basically whenever it needs to ...

OP might be a bit easier but GF has no problems tanking anything if it's geared properly.

zman81420

Lol an OP tanking better. I have heard it all now.

juliofp70

juliofp70 said:

dfnce said:

Worst nerf would be "fixing" every GF skill "dealing too much damage" as some CW suggest, but devs would fix ITF as well in end. ITF how it works for few % should be changed.

Even with ITF change, whine won't stop for sure (why not me but ... GF is best cc, GF is best burst, GF is best tank, GF is best single target damage etc...).

For a pvp gf yes... not for a pve gf like me. I would prefer to do less damage than i ITF nerf.

zman81420 said:

Lol an OP tanking better. I have heard it all now.

Probably cause you are running with the wrong paladines i know what i say there are paladines still able to put bubble many times

beckylunatic

Many buble



(forgive me)

jumpingmorks

They'll most likely just change ITF back to how it was. I didn't have a tank then but I think it was +5% dam per rank, players loved it back then, they will again.

As for OP tanks, I ran my GWF with a 2.6 OPP in CN and he tanked the dungeon and Orcus just fine.

There's no reason to do a complete rework on GF, each path is viable with the exception of maybe the flakey Tactician Capstone. It's probably one of the most flexible classes there is with maybe the exception of the CW (I haven;t really played my CW since mod 5) and the worst being the GWF which all pretty much rely on a copy paste build with maybe some variation on the last 15 feat points.

zman81420

That's the thing @juliofp70 my groups never need paladins or a healing DC they only slow us down. When the melt fests start who needs to rely on being immortal if they are never even swung at. Hit fast and hard and keep steam rolling.

nightranger7477

Lol thx a lot full metal, anyway he is right I main a Prot spec OP and at higher LV we are not really needed, that is why I pug on a regular basis because I can drag lower geared parties through dungeons with ease, the writing is on the wall and after the nerf I will shelf my pally and start running with my mod 5 day one gf again, will definitely be respecing to tact as he is currently conq.... Sign of the times. #RIPBubble

lantern22

DR that contributes to ITF should be limited to 80% - is this happening now?

oliboyph

lantern22 said:

DR that contributes to ITF should be limited to 80% - is this happening now?

My issue with this is that it effectively makes it useless to go past 3k ilvl, unless you go conqueror instead. At least if you go conqueror you can hit 80% DR easy and still deal a large amount of damage. If they want ITF to just contribute 50% or less, that's fine but they can't cap it.

juliofp70

zman81420 said:

That's the thing @juliofp70 my groups never need paladins or a healing DC they only slow us down. When the melt fests start who needs to rely on being immortal if they are never even swung at. Hit fast and hard and keep steam rolling.

we are talking about tanking, not about buff... GF is cleary better melting oponent thanks to ITF. If we remove ITF paladines are better when we compare tanking.

zman81420

@juliofp70 the point is regardless of ITF I can hold agro far superior to any OP I've run with. GF is far more versatile than just standing there yawning.

eion311

zman81420 said:

That's the thing @juliofp70 my groups never need paladins or a healing DC they only slow us down. When the melt fests start who needs to rely on being immortal if they are never even swung at. Hit fast and hard and keep steam rolling.

That's great, but not every GF is 3k+. There are those tanks/players that do need heals.

nightranger7477

You are right not ev1 is 3k il but what I think Zman "Full Metal" is referring to is the fact that at higher level gf is hands down better, and gf at any level can hold aggro way better than a paladin, it's mostly because of the broken mechanics of binding oath and oath strike that are supposed to force every target to attack the pally and just plain don't work. They have not worked since the class was released in mod 6. If these were fixed Pallys might be able to hold our own as far as aggro is concerned. ITF will probably be nerfed with the new "class balancing" or they will change it where it doesn't interact with DC AS or HG, that is the overpowered part not the ITF encounter. All that has happened is we have gone from Prot spec Bubble Pally haste DC combo being commonplace to tact gf buff DC combo being the new norm for dungeon runs.

zman81420

I play one character, a GF. With proper spec and know how you can never die, keep teams buffed, debuff all enemies, fully self heal while invulnerable and hold huge mobs. Life story I'm out.....

juliofp70

zman81420 said:

I play one character, a GF. With proper spec and know how you can never die, keep teams buffed, debuff all enemies, fully self heal while invulnerable and hold huge mobs. Life story I'm out.....

Like i play GF too, and im one of top 3 pve GF's in this game... probably you didnt know that. We are talking about group and self protection, you understand right? Its not about buffs/debuffs

A top paladine can hold orcus doing infinite rounds, no DC, with 100% aggro and a party with no dps.

Try to tank orcus with your GF with a low dps team, no DC/OP and stay alive during 7-8min tanking orcus (like i already did), then you can say to me im wrong about pallys. I did it but it was a pain to stay alive so much time.... a top pally would do it with no problems.

BTW GF have no 100% aggro fighting Orcus

oliboyph

juliofp70 said:

Like i play GF too, and im one of top 3 pve GF's in this game... probably you didnt know that. We are talking about group and self protection, you understand right? Its not about buffs/debuffs

A top paladine can hold orcus doing infinite rounds, no DC, with 100% aggro and a party with no dps.

Try to tank orcus with your GF with a low dps team, no DC/OP and stay alive during 7-8min tanking orcus (like i already did), then you can say to me im wrong about pallys. I did it but it was a pain to stay alive so much time.... a top pally would do it with no problems.

BTW GF have no 100% aggro fighting Orcus

I rarely see people claim that, not even lil fatty mushroom says that he's the best GF in game. Anyway You are right, I have a 3.8k GF with with bondings companions, thanks to "nerf" i can maintain 55-60k def easy. I also have a 2.7k OP with augment. I can easily keep casting my shielding encounters with OP and stay alive in Orcus. For GF I have to make sure I still catch orcus hits with my shield. If I miss I'm pretty much dead. Although having my AP fill up after getting 3 times also keeps me alive. But still, there's a chance for me to suffer some damage, and very rarely can be fatal. With OP i'm just cruising with my encounter rotation and shielding at-wills.

asterotg

xsayajinx1 said:

Not sure how one can claim to be top/best in PvE. No offense, but PvE is a joke ... like the biggest joke ever.

Try running PuG for a challenge.

If you run with a GF, drop DC and take a low dps group. Tanking Orkus for 10 minutes is boring, but without the proper concentration you are dead.

If you are running with a DD in a PuG group without DC and a tank, that cant hold aggro or dies after 10 seconds, it is difficult, too.

Same goes for DC and any other class I play. I have a near BIS CW and tactican GF, righteous HP DC, MI exe TR, SM destro GWF and pathfinder trapper HR, all 3k+. All build with the help of information by good players and the forum (special thanks to @thefabricant for compiling all this useful links, you saved me a lot of time respecing my HR). The problem is neither GF, nor DC, bonding runestones, SW, TR, GWF or anything else. It is the power creep combined with buffs. They can get stacked sky high and work MULTIPLICATIVE instead of additive resulting in insane numbers.

zman81420

@juliofp70 . Congrats? Is there a prize for that like free alters to pray to yourself?

juliofp70

zman81420 said:

@juliofp70 . Congrats? Is there a prize for that like free alters to pray to yourself?

its not about praise, its simple about me telling you OP tanks better and you answer that with arrogance... so i respond in the same coin GF is good with good dps party, thanks to buffs (not thanks to tankiness). With OP tanking orcus you can eat with one hand while pressing buttons with the other.

urabask

juliofp70 said:

zman81420 said:

@juliofp70 . Congrats? Is there a prize for that like free alters to pray to yourself?

its not about praise, its simple about me telling you OP tanks better and you answer that with arrogance... so i respond in the same coin GF is good with good dps party, thanks to buffs (not thanks to tankiness). With OP tanking orcus you can eat with one hand while pressing buttons with the other.

That just means that it's easier. Technically if you don't mess up you can tank orcus for hours as a GF.