Outbound paladin.. recovery stat

bshawnsam23

OK. I just started a op a few days ago I'm nearing lvl 60 now will be 70 soon.

Around this level is when I start paying attention to my stats as they are about to matter.

My question is can some other op who run the bubble give me some tips.

Like what should my power, critical, arm pen, recovery, defense, etc be at or around?

Which ones are more important for my class?

armadeonx

Uh, ordinarily that wouldn't be too difficult in that if you can get your AP gain to 40%+ for perma (most of this comes from Recovery). After that you'd work on Power (as high as possible) and defence is a bit of a debate depending on how much you damage you want to return via binding oath etc.

The problem is the upcoming nerf to the bubble - it's dropping down to a maximum 6 second duration - making it pointless.

Some high spec pallies or those with high AP gain from the snail or wherever think they'll still manage perma but as haste is also getting nerfed, most DC's are going to switch builds so there won't be any haste DC's to help you along.

All pallies will receive a full respec token when the change drops and most will reroll to healadin (oath of devotion paragon path).

Some will have a go at seeing if it's possible to run a proper old fashioned tank (I'm going to try it) but currently the class has a real problem with threat generation - it doesn't work very well. The thing is, if you stack defence & utilise appropriate skills so your Damage Reduction is close to 80% then you can tank anything but that only works for your party if you can keep the enemies fighting you and leave your party alone (i.e. threat gen).

I'm experimenting with 4 points in Aura of Radiance atm and it does help - the LM set nerf may also reduce the threat generated by the DPSers in the party but we're just not sure right now.

It may well be the case that Protection Pallys will need to reduce emphasis on Recovery, bring Resistance Ignored up to 55% (more dmg, more threat) and stack more Power - partly for dmg but also because most builds give 25% of the Pallys power to party members so its a major buff.

note: If you run with a good companion & use bondings you can get your power very high - there's a screenshot from one of my guild's pallies with over 107k power. That's over 26k extra power to every other party member during a fight. It would also help with his own threat gen.

Personally I'd say put Radiants in your own Defence slots for health (hit points) and put Azures in your Companions defence slots for a rising defence stat when in combat. With the right gear including artifacts your defence should be around 8k - 10k passively if you want to use binding oath effectively - I hate it personally but it's usually considered a 'must have'.

If you want to try a proper aggro tank then your defence needs to be above 15k plus a good negation or run aura of Protection at 4 points until you get one for an extra 12.5% DR.

Like I said though, it's not even confirmed that a viable pure tanking build exists for the Pally atm but the above is where I'm currently experimenting. To play safe, stack power & recovery evenly, plus high defence and reroll to healadin when the changes arrive.

bshawnsam23

Healadin? Which means I can heal Only basically? Wouldn't I just choose a DC if that's the case? And the bubble with 6 seconds wouldn't that still be effective if say I can get enough recovery to get my daily up quickly..?

As in people would still like it but would have to be smarter( not stand in red like idiots) but I guess this would just mess up the binding oath? Or maybe I should drop binding oath so if opl stay in red I don't die. Keep the bubble get high recovery to pop it quickly and communicate not to stay in red if bubble has been up a few seconds

armadeonx

First off, the healadin actually heals better than a straight specced Faithful DC (i.e. the proper healing path for clerics). Not only is the healadin the best healer but they also have better defences due armour class and pally feats.

The next issue is most Pallys under about 2.8k IL run with a haste unless they have a snail mount. That's to get their bubble popped every 20 seconds - you would need to fill your AP over 3 times as fast to perma. You could try chaining binding oath - most people can manage it for a few rounds before divine call and luck dry up but binding oath doesn't hold aggro as intended - it appears to have a small aoe and is more of an 'encouragement' rather than an irresistible compulsion.

As I said, I will try to make it work. Increased defence and 4 points in aura of radiance etc. I'm an optimist by nature but a realistic one. I understand you've put a lot of time into your character & it's disappointing to maybe be forced into being something you didn't want.

I do think that if the path dries up completely, the developers will fix threat gen -the thing is, most GF's spec as buffers now, that leaves a huge gap at the lower end where defence is more of a requirement. This up to now has been filled by the Pally so newer players are going to have a hard time.

bshawnsam23

You really seem to know your business lol what's your gamertag I may hit you up of I ever need anything explained if that's alright

armadeonx

it's the same as my forum username armadeonx

sjk2603

Hey All.

Just to put this into context. I am a 3.3k pally on the PC version. I currently have 18.5k base recovery. This gives me a Recharge speed increase of around 120% and an AP gain of 75%. I have a legendary neck (4% ap Gain in combat). I use 2 sprite comapions (3% total ap gain). I have a ring of rising focus +3 (950 recovery when maxed). I went the light tree for the last feat on the bottm row. Cant remember the name but gives 20% increase to recovery when party members are within 30 feet.

So during dungeons and skirmishes, depending on other buffs from team members, i have anything from 20k Rec to 32k Rec. AND I STILL AM NOT PERMA. I can get bubble every 8 secs plus cast time of 1 sec. With a Haste DC and a GF i can get 6 sec buuble (plus 1 sec cast time). when it matters like boss fights. Actually perma for 3 rotations with the DC artifact. I still have a way to go though as all my enchants are still a mix of 9's and 10's.

So, unless you are prepared for a long grind, or some serious money input, or are bloody minded like me (like when someone tells you you cant do something, you wanna prove them wrong), then dont bother with a tank. Either make a healer or a PVP pally.

Thanks all

armadeonx

Thanks for the feedback @sjk2603 - what's your assessment of pally threat gen atm on pc?

sjk2603

Simple....in a word ..Useless

armadeonx

haha yeah that's my experience too xD I've found that running with 4 points in aura of radiance helps but not to the degree I'd hoped.

stonekold

Yeah I am 62 and have noticed a major problem with threat. Are GF any better with threat?

armadeonx

yes, excluding the soon to be nerfed bubble, the GF is better at everything.

firepats12

armadeonx said:

yes, excluding the soon to be nerfed bubble, the GF is better at everything.

Not everything lol. Main one I can think of is survivability. Pally, with the combo of Wraith and Oath, are pretty much un-killable. GF has nothing like that, except for a daily that gives HP for hitting something.

In fact, the only things that the GF is better at is Buffs and Threat, that's it.

armadeonx

Ah I'm talking about what they bring to the party - you're right that on an individual level the OP is much harder to kill. Unfortunately that's not a lot of use to a team if the enemies attack everyone except the pally

sjk2603

On the PC version we normally run dungeons in this format..Buffing DC and GF, OP tank and 2 HDPS. We kill everything quickly and very rarely die. As i stated above i am damn near perma again after the nerf and the GF uses ITF and KV. He takes all the aggro and I mitigate most of the damage, leaving the DC to provide his/her buffs. The 2 HDPS then obliterate everything. Pally's are useless at threat and aggro, hence the GF. With an SW and a GWF as HDPS we do CN in about 7 minutes. 3 runs last night took 20 mins.

I do top the IMMOVABLE OBJECT charts everytime with the GF taking about half my damage. But, ultimately GF's provide better party mechanics and buffs. Shame really cos i do enjoy playing my pally.

midental

sjk2603 said:

Hey All.

Just to put this into context. I am a 3.3k pally on the PC version. I currently have 18.5k base recovery. This gives me a Recharge speed increase of around 120% and an AP gain of 75%. I have a legendary neck (4% ap Gain in combat). I use 2 sprite comapions (3% total ap gain). I have a ring of rising focus +3 (950 recovery when maxed). I went the light tree for the last feat on the bottm row. Cant remember the name but gives 20% increase to recovery when party members are within 30 feet.

So during dungeons and skirmishes, depending on other buffs from team members, i have anything from 20k Rec to 32k Rec. AND I STILL AM NOT PERMA. I can get bubble every 8 secs plus cast time of 1 sec. With a Haste DC and a GF i can get 6 sec buuble (plus 1 sec cast time). when it matters like boss fights. Actually perma for 3 rotations with the DC artifact. I still have a way to go though as all my enchants are still a mix of 9's and 10's.

So, unless you are prepared for a long grind, or some serious money input, or are bloody minded like me (like when someone tells you you cant do something, you wanna prove them wrong), then dont bother with a tank. Either make a healer or a PVP pally.

Thanks all

Hi

I've a Pally too and congratulation for your recovery score! But.... i'm 3350 IL and my recovery is 13K base score. I'm always permabubble (no nerf) and i found very very interesting your post.

Do you have new elemental weapons?
do you have snail?
do you have armour reinforcments?

Because i think that permabubble is possible (not easy eh) with the nerf using the right equips and mounts. Because recovery is very important also is AP gain.

I would like to debate and find a solution different thai is not to transform my pally in Heladin

Best regards

Andrea

PS

My gamertag on XBOXONE is MIDENTAL

sundance777

Currently on xbox, my pally is way over perma, almost annoyingly so. I went with a ton of AP Gain ~1600 points, the snail, elemental fire weapons and less that 7K recovery. I did add a few point to INT for recharge speed, orange neck, two blue sprites, purple book imp and maybe some other minor tweaks that I am forgetting right now. If I have a haste behind me in combat the daily is ready about every 4-5 seconds. I stopped building my pally at 2975 IL in case the nerf is worse than I am anticipating and I am now running my GF as my favored support toon.

Besides the companions and artifacts, this build did not cost too much.

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/screenshot/fc76df1d-1e2a-4fd6-ae2f-da90ae475cf5?gamertag=MangyitBasher&scid=8dd60100-6cc0-42f2-bb3e-c47b184a79f5

bshawnsam23

My recovery is like 8300 still not permanent how are you with only 6k recovery???

nightranger7477

Ap gain, burning set, flail snail, Justice Path = Perma at 6000 recovery. For now....

satniteeduardo

bshawnsam23 said:

My recovery is like 8300 still not permanent how are you with only 6k recovery???

There is more than just recovery. companions that improver recharge speed and provide AP gain. AP gain reinforcements, AP gain on artifacts and as artifact stat increase on weapons.

theopv

Just to add to the mix. Running a 3.2k pally, 13000 k recovery, flail snail, weapon set that adds 25%AP over time 25% of the time, 4% AP gain on neck, 16k defense, 12k ish power, any boon that gives added AP, was ok when running with a GF as they added AP gain too so managed to perma Orcus till he was about 4/6th down then I lost steam when the GF went down. It was a PUG team and I think the highest level there was 2.5kGWF along with a TR, SW and others came and went (as we tried for a while but never got a healer).
That being said. Its possible to perma with a good group but damn it was the most frenetic run I have ever done. Taking larger hits from the team now when they are in the bubble (from 80% down to 50%) makes it much harder too. Teams just need to readjust their style and not simply keep their characters mindlessly hacking away. I used to be able to pick people up during a fight and redo the bubble. Not any more.... you are at the mercy of other teammates.

I'm thinking about switching to light paragon for the added recovery but that would take away from the judge which gives a 35% cooldown on encounter powers......which builds AP blah blah blah....
I think I will wait and see what others think before changing.

Don't forget its not all about the bubble. The shield of faith gives everyone a 30% damage reduction, couple that with a gf knight valor and maybe that's the way to go...



To add to armadeonx's post. I am trying everything to get the threat to me. Seems like a menacing looking ant gets the bosses attention before I can!!

kefrathar

Yeah, it does take getting use to, but that bubble really helped in epic level dungeons. I'm just wondering who complained about it? People need to realize, it worked well in PVE. maybe too well, but I wouldn't have dropped it down to only 6 seconds with 4 points. I would have dropped it to 10 seconds. If it was a PvPer that complained about it. That is simple, they could have done a script that adjusted the ability down to the 6 seconds. Paladins are tanks, and protectors, that is their job. They don't do a whole lot of damage compared to some classes. That is as it should be. I can honestly see a lot of people getting rid of their Paladin. I'll just respec mine, and see how that goes, and find other ways to help protect the party without my Paladin dying in the process. It might now take two or 3 bubble paladins working as a group and chatting with each other. So they can time their bubbles one after the other. Could it work? Yes. Would it take practice? Yes. Will people try it? Probably.

Some people make HAMSTER characters, others follow what others post (and may still be HAMSTER characters), then there are those that will Respec a character 3 or 4 times just to get the max out of that character, whether is is damage, DOT, healing etc. But you will always have people complain about the game. 'My character can't be their character because of XYZ.' We all hear it. Sometimes it is true. But different classes have different abilities. in D&D, I'd never try and take a thief against a Paladin 1 on 1. That thief would be toast. I'd wait until his back was turned (or better yet, asleep) and I had some serious damaging items, Because that would be one pissed of Paladin and I'd be dead. They try and make the characters 'evenly matched' for PvP. PvP is the secondary reason for this game. You're playing D&D. Group up with friends and go kill monsters. So PvP has been around since Neverwinter Nights on AOL, and that through a fluke someone discovered. (Yes I am that old).

If you don't like it, that is fine, this is just the opinion of an old D&Der that has played for years, the played Never Winter Nights on AOL, through the other Neverwinter games, to this one, first on PC and now on Xbox.

Rathar Issmuss
Grand Master
Knights of the Eternal Flame

asjohnson

Perma-bubble is still 100% possible and it is a thing. I have run with 4 bubbles so far in CN that were perma, so everyone that was whining about the bubble just sound childish now.

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asjohnson

poopoomcmuffns said:

Its a real dissapointment that its still possible.

Why? Some people need bubble to get through some dungeons, namely CN. Why is that such a bad thing? I have never understood the hate for the bubble. Most people that hate it always say it ruins the game and makes stuff too easy. But it's not easy for some people even with the bubble. I was glad to carry people through ECC, ETOS, and CN with my bubble. It made me feel good to know that I helped some low levels get some gear. But in your case, I am asuming you are an elitist that claims they can probably solo CN and EDEMO. If you can than congrats, but don't spew hate on people who need some help.

Also, as a side note: Some of my fastest CN runs, talking 10min runs, were with 1Bubble, 1GF, 1DC, and 2DPS. So Bubble is very useful.

onetruknight

@asjohnson#4476 its because egg mcmuffins is a caster style pvper.. This is why he / shes upset about the bubble..

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armadeonx

Very true. Anyone having a hard time with pre-nerf bubble is not bringing enough dps. The trouble of course was players wanting T2 gear gear so running T2's with their T1 stuff. That's avoidable now, just run demonic heroics and get drow gear.

asjohnson

poopoomcmuffns said:

It made the game boring, both aspects pve and pvp. now the majority that ran with bubbles have zero skill wth there respective class because they just didnt need it. It casualized the entire game.

Boring? You run the exact same content, but instead of dying every 5secs from a single arrow in ECC, you can actually survive. So that point of yours is very invalid and false.

Zero skill? I ran with bubbles in the beginning and now my main, a GWF, and my second, a SW, can ,and more times than not, does out dps anyone else I am in a group with. My SW is only 2700IL and the only people that can out DPS her are people that are literally 100% BiS lol. Almost the same goes for my GWF. So even though I ran with a bubble....I still seem to know what I am doing. So I guess that means your second point is ALSO very invalid and false.

You just seem like a bubble hater through and through. You have no real reasons behind why you hate the bubble, but you will spew non-sense and claim its a reason. So go ahead, say what you will.

ecrana

I don't get the bubble hate. Yes, it made things way easier. It allowed people to gear up that wouldn't be able to without a bubble. But who cares.

Did every bubble hater run every single dungeon without a bubble when they were gearing up? Maybe. Most likely not. No one was forcing players to run with a bubble. If you wanted more of a challenge you ran with a premade of your choosing. I've run T2s in numerous party variations, with or without Pallys, whether premade or pugging.

To say it's a shame people can still build a perma if they want is ridiculous. If someone wants to invest that much into trying to go perma again thats their right.

It's like saying a DPS should be capped off at a certain level of damage before they makes things too easy with their damage output.

The only thing accomplished by nerfing the bubble so badly was to ensure that newer players give up faster since no one wants to spend a year grinding to get IL 2500. Was the bubble extreme? Sure. But maybe fixing the build altogether before killing an entire class feature was the better response.