That seems backwards (bugged). It doesn't make any sense for the helm guild to get a structure discount when the gauntlet guilds are expected to be smaller and thus struggling to gather resources.
I went back and forth on this one. The logic of the current version is: * small guilds can include feeder guilds which have pre-70 characters (alts especially), who can use the XP more * everything is % based, and having a % of a big cost is more valuable when your costs are big -- the costs are a lot smaller for the small guilds (and remember they should have some help from other guilds now; bringing up a smaller guild gives you just as many guild marks, and it's a quick and easy way to raiser your alliance level) * the number of guilds that are actually completely maxed out (and thus unable to use the cost discount) is fairly small
That said, if everyone thinks larger guilds will want the XP buff, and smaller guilds will want the cost discount, it's an easy thing for me to change. The thing I really do NOT want is weird inverted alliances where the rank 17 guild tries to arrange to be in the gauntlet position to get the structure discount -- and I was afraid that would happen with the big discounts going to the gauntlet position.
Another possibility is to just punt on the whole "custom benefits based on position" idea and give the exact same benefits to everyone -- so everyone gets the current sword benefits, say. In theory, I like the idea that the benefits in each position are ideal for the guilds that are likely to be in that position. But it seems hard to make it work in practice.
In practice the guilds in the alliance will only donate to their origin guilds coffer for any of the chokepoint currencies.
You need to add mechanic to encourage the growth of the smaller guild by contribution of the larger guilds.
A couple ideas:
1. Have the donations trickle down. You donate to the coffer 100% goes to that guild and 25% bonus goes to the alliance guilds 2. A currency exchange. Main guild maxed out of metal? Exchange metal voucher for dungeons shards, can only be donated to alliance guilds (not main). Granted this one may be hard to balance but you get the idea
The crazy high cost of SH upgrades means that very few guilds are maxed. So they will all be encouraging donations to their OWN coffers rather than alliances coffer.
Also, is there not going to be boon sharing? I haven't see anything stating that but I know that access to boons other guilds had in the alliance was a very anticipated feature.
Nobody in a high end guild or even medium guild will want their resources donated to level another guild because their coffer is full for a few guild marks (new enchantment drop guild marks anyways) they will just stock pile the more valuable resources and donate again on the next structure this whole thing is just going to be a complicated mess with major guild drama
When everything is max'ed out, there will be no structure to build.
Stock pile means you are losing inventory space. When you have tons of X vouchers you want to get rid of, the alliance provides a way for individual character to offload to free up inventory space and get some guild mark. For our guild, we want to dump AD, gold, labour vouchers. The coffer of these are filled up within an hour after a new building is built. it is a race to coffer these days. If you are 'late', you stuck with them (unless you discard them) for a while.
+1 to this.I generally leave my own guild for an hour or 2 on 2xmarks for donating those green vouchers so I can have space in my inventory.Now I will just go to another guild in the alliance and dump it there
That seems backwards (bugged). It doesn't make any sense for the helm guild to get a structure discount when the gauntlet guilds are expected to be smaller and thus struggling to gather resources.
I went back and forth on this one. The logic of the current version is: * small guilds can include feeder guilds which have pre-70 characters (alts especially), who can use the XP more * everything is % based, and having a % of a big cost is more valuable when your costs are big -- the costs are a lot smaller for the small guilds (and remember they should have some help from other guilds now; bringing up a smaller guild gives you just as many guild marks, and it's a quick and easy way to raiser your alliance level) * the number of guilds that are actually completely maxed out (and thus unable to use the cost discount) is fairly small
That said, if everyone thinks larger guilds will want the XP buff, and smaller guilds will want the cost discount, it's an easy thing for me to change. The thing I really do NOT want is weird inverted alliances where the rank 17 guild tries to arrange to be in the gauntlet position to get the structure discount -- and I was afraid that would happen with the big discounts going to the gauntlet position.
Another possibility is to just punt on the whole "custom benefits based on position" idea and give the exact same benefits to everyone -- so everyone gets the current sword benefits, say. In theory, I like the idea that the benefits in each position are ideal for the guilds that are likely to be in that position. But it seems hard to make it work in practice.
XP is not really useful tbh. Leveling to 70 isnt a problem and you get there fast enough. XP shouldnt even be one of the buffs in alliances. Who has a guild that is focused on having below lvl 70 players? I really dont think people will spend resources on upgrading a guild for players that are leveling to get an XP buff from alliances.
Everyone would want the cost reduction buff and everyone will seek the position that gives the most reduction. The whole system design will fail. You need to add different bonuses.
A small guild would need the reduction the most but if the alternative is XP buff, then I would choose reduction cost even if our GH is really high and were almost done upgrading.. You need to add other buffs that big guilds would pick over reduction costs. XP is not it.
Also I dont get why anyone would donate to someone elses coffer? Even if my guild were maxed out I would rather save all resources for another day for my own guild. It makes no sense. Whats the benefits from helping other guilds?..
What about giving gauntlet/sword guilds XP and cost reduction while head gets something different all together. Im not sure what that could be tho. I really dont like this system at all. I actually think this whole alliance system is a big waste of time when there is so much other things that needs focus in the game.
You should just rethink the costs for SH alltogether and skip bonuses.. If small guilds have problems advancing then maybe the prices for upgrades are too high.... And forcing everyone to do PvE like this is just wrong. Add Influence to PvP for starters.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
As far as offloading resources goes, i would like to think the game has that kind of spirit, but I am skeptical. Incentive goes a long way to ensuring that happens, but unless I am unaware of it, a few guild marks does not make much of an incentive.
So do you then find similar sized/active guilds and use the alliance for LFG cause is that all its going to end up being anyways?
I sound pesimistic, but its not really how i feel, I am just playing devils advocate. Interested in others thoughts.
I already do this offloading. I'm in a rank 14 guild, my old guild is R4. Every so often I will take resources I can't donate to the main guild and donate them to my old guild with the support of both. I basically donated the stone to allow a guildhall/MP upgrade that used it before they built a quarry which allowed them MP2 much earlier than otherwise.
What did it do for me, allowed me to get GMs for the vouchers, which has equipped many alts with dragonflight gear, and will at double professions and with explorers guild 6 earn me a LOT of mastercrafting resources.
Helm guild must be > Sword guild must be > Guantlet
Also there could be a requirement based on amount of players in a guild. Like sword cant have more than X members?
But XP bonus has to go. Otherwise I dont even see the point in joining an alliance at all if you end up with a XP bonus. Thats totally useless for almost all guilds no matter what the size is.
And what about making it so that if you donate to someone elses guild, you get x2 guildmarks from it. Can be exploited tho by leaving and joining another guild and donate and then go back. I just feel that I need some motivation to farm boring stuff to help another guild. There is like no gain. After my guild reaches GH 20 I dont see anyone spending any time for free to keep farming. Im not sure if you have the impression that anyone thinks its fun to upgrade StrongHold. Because its really not.
Also I really dont like the idea that anyone can come to our stronghold and use our vendors and buy whatever WE worked for. Not for free. Maybe let the guilds decide that if another player wants to use our vendors then they have taxes to gain access (like influence or something).
Feels like Alliances is made for small guilds or guilds with lazy players to leech of guilds that did the work.
Another idea would be to give Helmet PvE bonuses like more influence from HEs while Sword can be more PvP focused and give influence for PvP matches.
Hm, so I've just heard that the bonuses are actually the opposite of what I though with the structure discount being for upper guilds and the XP bonus for lower ones. That actually makes a lot more sense - except if this is the case, guilds that have already maxed out their SH won't get much benefit as an H guild. Not sure I can muster any sympathy for them though. wait... maybe... no, that was just gas.
strange -> when i post feedback "bla bla bla need to be approved" -> when simple and small post, i have easy publication
upd
#rgutscheradev
1st: Feedback: Want to Be Able to Slot Allied Guilds’ Boons I wish we could slot boons from Allied Guilds. Then different guilds in the alliance could build different boon buildings. Right now everyone always builds the same stuff. Nice idea! You need to do this. 2nd: Feedback: Аlliances bonuses Аlliances bonuses are really bad and unnecessary. Exp and construction discount for who? For small guilds - yes? What about big guilds? With 20 GH? They are bored for a very long time...You need to introduce hard content and intresting bonuses for strong guilds too.
P.S.: i really want dungeon with hall full of mobs lice last one in CN
This is bad. So all the high level guilds will group together leaving the low level guilds behind ...
I've already talked to my officers, and we agree that we're not interested in trying to get in with any "larger" or :uber guilds.
And as far as I can tell, there is no finish line in this game, so we don't feel as though we're being "left behind" anything. Okay, sure, so big guilds can already do "X, Y, and Z", but we'll get there.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
At the risk of saying something unpopular...
If the reward for a Helm guild is XP, why would any large guild even be part of an alliance? Large guilds spent hundreds of millions of AD (and time) creating their stronghold, so why would they effectively give it (almost) all away for a little bit of mostly useless XP?
The reward/bonus for smaller guilds is simple: access to markets and vendors, large-scale dragon clears, and organized siege matches that they otherwise couldn't access. I'm not sure anything else is needed. I'm not sure it's entirely necessary to encourage large guilds to rank up small guilds, since most of the benefit (except boons) is provided for free simply by being in the alliance.
The reward/bonus for large guilds should be some form of structure discount and additional guild mark gain as the alliance level increases. If possible, it would also work well to automatically create some form of coffer donation (influence?) whenever a member of an allied smaller guild shops at the larger guild vendors (not tied to alliance level).
I'm not sure how to fit sword guilds smoothly into this structure.
If the reward for a Helm guild is XP, why would any large guild even be part of an alliance? Large guilds spent hundreds of millions of AD (and time) creating their stronghold, so why would they effectively give it (almost) all away for a little bit of mostly useless XP?
The reward/bonus for smaller guilds is simple: access to markets and vendors, large-scale dragon clears, and organized siege matches that they otherwise couldn't access. I'm not sure anything else is needed. I'm not sure it's entirely necessary to encourage large guilds to rank up small guilds, since most of the benefit (except boons) is provided for free simply by being in the alliance.
The reward/bonus for large guilds should be some form of structure discount and additional guild mark gain as the alliance level increases. If possible, it would also work well to automatically create some form of coffer donation (influence?) whenever a member of an allied smaller guild shops at the larger guild vendors (not tied to alliance level).
I'm not sure how to fit sword guilds smoothly into this structure.
#rgutscheradev Make other bonuses -> this do not give anithing intresting for strong guilds. And sharing boons. Pls.
And we really need some hard content -> a lot of players dying of boredom. What to do with 20gh 4k IL and many many alts? nothing...
Sharing boons? That must be one of the worst suggestions here. Why would anyone even upgrade anything if they can just leech of a big guild that already has a boons? Sure if you pay our guild in someway we can rent out our boons to you.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
#rgutscheradev Make other bonuses -> this do not give anithing intresting for strong guilds. And sharing boons. Pls.
And we really need some hard content -> a lot of players dying of boredom. What to do with 20gh 4k IL and many many alts? nothing...
Sharing boons? That must be one of the worst suggestions here. Why would anyone even upgrade anything if they can just leech of a big guild that already has a boons? Sure if you pay our guild in someway we can rent out our boons to you.
If small guilds received (1) vendor access, (2) boon access, and (3) access to organized dragonflights/siege matches, there would be no benefit to upgrading their guild (except in the event they are removed from the alliance). I actually don't think this is a problem so long as all resources provided by the small guilds go towards the helm guild. This would effectively expand the guild size limit without forcing guilds to change names, change leadership, etc. All guilds get the boons and vendors of the helm guild, and all farmed resources go to the helm guild. It's an interesting suggestion. Again, not sure how sword guilds fit in.
Concept behind this approach: Small guilds don't join an alliance to rank themselves up, they join so they can stop worrying about ranking themselves up and get the benefits of the alliance helm. The alliance helm guild, in turn, gets all alliance resources. Would probably have to expand the coffer size of the helm guild, perhaps proportional to the number of guilds (or accounts) in the alliance.
#rgutscheradev Make other bonuses -> this do not give anithing intresting for strong guilds. And sharing boons. Pls.
And we really need some hard content -> a lot of players dying of boredom. What to do with 20gh 4k IL and many many alts? nothing...
Sharing boons? That must be one of the worst suggestions here. Why would anyone even upgrade anything if they can just leech of a big guild that already has a boons? Sure if you pay our guild in someway we can rent out our boons to you.
#ejziponken You dont need just give you boons to other guild.
For example -> we have 2 guilds 20gh and we have 3same building and 1 diff. Each guild wants to have this 1 boon from other build. Guilds can share between themselves this boons.
Just need to do next: The possibility to use your boon by other guild. But the other guild needs to give you their boons. If you have 20 GH and 8k of def -> guild with 10 gh will have just 4k of def when will use your boon. And if you will use their 4k of power you will have only 4k not more. And in 1 time you can't share max that 1 boon.
This way all guilds can build different buildings.
I am sorry. for me it's very hard to explain smth in eng.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Large max and close to max guilds do not need help. This whole thing seems doomed with the attitude of these guilds not interested in helping smaller guilds except to boost themselves even further ahead at the expense of the smaller guilds. I see the helm guild using the others until they are milked dry and then kicking them from the alliance.
It's more likely that the Large guilds simply wouldn't join an alliance (if XP is the reward), leaving small guilds in the same situation they are in now. Small guilds are inherently benefited by aligning with a large guild -- they get access to vendors, large-scale organized dragonflights and siege events, that they otherwise couldn't get. This is a huge benefit that large guilds spent millions upon millions of AD to achieve.
What inherent benefit is there for Large guilds to be part of an alliance? Altruism? That's unrealistic. This is about making the rewards fair for small and large guilds. Small guilds get huge implicit rewards from alliances. What's the equivalent for large guilds? Structure discounts, additional guild marks, and additional contributions. Large near-max guilds do need help. I would suggest a way to designate a next-in-line guild once the helm guild is fully maxed out.
good evening, i am talking as a member outside the leadership of gravityxgame, a guild lv 19 in few days striving to reach lv 20 status and max lv boons.
As much as this "alliance" idea sounds fun, i have some really big concerns which i will try to resume in a short list.
1) As a soon to be lv 20 guild without the help of outside sources i dont have much interest left in stronghold activities. Sure as the fact my nickname is rayrdan i m not going through mindblowing farm i already did to help lower level guilds regardless the reward im getting from doing so.
2) As far as rewards are concerned i read about XP bonus and stronghold structure discount:
- my guild is almost maxed why should we care about structure discount?
- my guild is a lv 70 guild only. Why should we want XP bonus? Even if power points by XP overflow where still a thing i honestly would not care.
- you can say: where are you going to get your guild marks then? the answer is: why should we want to get guild marks in the first place? we got what we wanted and if guild marks are going to be a problem we will create a second guild and slap ALTs in it.
3) if the possibility of sharing boons is being contempled i m again not seeing the reason to take guilds under our wing. Why should we accept to share our boons with them for free. Even if some form of payment is provided we, again, are not going to need anything in a few weeks.
Someone ( probably whitestarua ) said if i got it right: "sharing boons is good because you can have access to other people structures and benefiting of those boons you could not use before becuase you lacked the right building"
I got power, i got armor pen, defense, lifesteal ad hp....and this is the choice most reasonable people did for reasons.
4) What will happen when a rank gamma guild decide to become a rank beta? or a rank beta with 3 rank gamma associated will decide to become a rank alfa? I guess all time wasted.
As it stands, i dont see the purpose of all of this.
Many little guilds decided to remain little. What's the difference between an alliance with shared chat, shared ques, shared strongholds and a common guild then? Just the number of members. If 100 members were too many for those players im sure they will find alliances disappointing.
I for one will propose to stay out of any aggregations. Im not a samaritan. Im definitely sure i ll do something else rather than upgrading other guilds' structures.
My only curiousity left is too see which guilds will have the misfortune to end up with BL.
If the reward for a Helm guild is XP, why would any large guild even be part of an alliance? Large guilds spent hundreds of millions of AD (and time) creating their stronghold, so why would they effectively give it (almost) all away for a little bit of mostly useless XP?
The reward/bonus for smaller guilds is simple: access to markets and vendors, large-scale dragon clears, and organized siege matches that they otherwise couldn't access. I'm not sure anything else is needed. I'm not sure it's entirely necessary to encourage large guilds to rank up small guilds, since most of the benefit (except boons) is provided for free simply by being in the alliance.
The reward/bonus for large guilds should be some form of structure discount and additional guild mark gain as the alliance level increases. If possible, it would also work well to automatically create some form of coffer donation (influence?) whenever a member of an allied smaller guild shops at the larger guild vendors (not tied to alliance level).
I'm not sure how to fit sword guilds smoothly into this structure.
Anyway, just brainstorming / theorycrafting.
Obviously you didn't understand the bonuses that a helm guild receives. A helm guild gets [alliance level]*.1 = % of structure discount and [alliance level]*.025 = % XP bonus. So large guilds in the helm position do in fact get a structure discount
Aside from that, as I understand it, the benefit for a large maxed guild to help small guilds is supposed to be that the large guilds can continue to gain guild marks by contributing to smaller guilds (and for people saying they would just up an alt guild for this, it is not going to be enough to absorb all the extra donations that a large guild has, unless you want to turn that alt guild into a genuine stronghold). The problem expressed by many people in this thread is that they are tired of farming already and guild marks are not a good enough reward. This is a problem inherent with Masterworks since masterworks is such a huge time and AD investment to level (and then to even make the gear) that very few people are doing it, and since things are so unobtainable no one cares about farming for the resources and thus prices stay stupidly high.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I went back and forth on this one. The logic of the current version is: * small guilds can include feeder guilds which have pre-70 characters (alts especially), who can use the XP more * everything is % based, and having a % of a big cost is more valuable when your costs are big -- the costs are a lot smaller for the small guilds (and remember they should have some help from other guilds now; bringing up a smaller guild gives you just as many guild marks, and it's a quick and easy way to raiser your alliance level) * the number of guilds that are actually completely maxed out (and thus unable to use the cost discount) is fairly small
That said, if everyone thinks larger guilds will want the XP buff, and smaller guilds will want the cost discount, it's an easy thing for me to change. The thing I really do NOT want is weird inverted alliances where the rank 17 guild tries to arrange to be in the gauntlet position to get the structure discount -- and I was afraid that would happen with the big discounts going to the gauntlet position.
Another possibility is to just punt on the whole "custom benefits based on position" idea and give the exact same benefits to everyone -- so everyone gets the current sword benefits, say. In theory, I like the idea that the benefits in each position are ideal for the guilds that are likely to be in that position. But it seems hard to make it work in practice.
If the positions get treated differently, then it encourages players and guilds to game the system. They will position themselves in the alliance wherever they see the greatest benefit, and frankly it's unlikely that any game developer can accurately predict alliance behaviors game-wide. If you don't want people gaming and inverting the system to their (meta-)advantage, then don't design a system that can be gamed.
Making bonuses based on straight guild levels also leads to the problem of big guilds only wanting to group with big guilds, leaving smaller guilds in the dust in a much more severe way. If you're really loving the basic idea of how bonuses work across ranks, remove it from what you have and apply the idea to how much their guild level contributes to the bonus. Make it something that encourages bringing in small guilds that are advanced. You can't possibly prevent people from trying to create puppet guilds, short of banning, but you can at least try to offer incentives to bring in some small guilds and to get them built up (or at least don't punish the alliance if they stop being small/low level). So Helm could contribute Guild Level, Gauntlet can contribute (20-max(10,Guild Level) + Levels advanced past 10 while in alliance). Maybe a slight adjustment to the last one, with an overall min/max applied. And swords could contribute whichever of these values is largest, maybe.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
2) As far as rewards are concerned i read about XP bonus and stronghold structure discount:
- my guild is almost maxed why should we care about structure discount?
- my guild is a lv 70 guild only. Why should we want XP bonus? Even if power points by XP overflow where still a thing i honestly would not care.
- you can say: where are you going to get your guild marks then? the answer is: why should we want to get guild marks in the first place? we got what we wanted and if guild marks are going to be a problem we will create a second guild and slap ALTs in it.
3) if the possibility of sharing boons is being contempled i m again not seeing the reason to take guilds under our wing. Why should we accept to share our boons with them for free. Even if some form of payment is provided we, again, are not going to need anything in a few weeks.
Someone ( probably whitestarua ) said if i got it right: "sharing boons is good because you can have access to other people structures and benefiting of those boons you could not use before becuase you lacked the right building"
I got power, i got armor pen, defense, lifesteal ad hp....and this is the choice most reasonable people did for reasons.
If your guild doesn't care about guild marks and doesn't care about access to additional boons, there probably isn't much reason to be an alliance if you're fully maxed out. I think that's intended. Guild Marks and additional boons would be a pretty big incentive for the guild I'm in (19, working on 20) even when we are maxed.
Iyon the Dark
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
If the reward for a Helm guild is XP, why would any large guild even be part of an alliance? Large guilds spent hundreds of millions of AD (and time) creating their stronghold, so why would they effectively give it (almost) all away for a little bit of mostly useless XP?
The reward/bonus for smaller guilds is simple: access to markets and vendors, large-scale dragon clears, and organized siege matches that they otherwise couldn't access. I'm not sure anything else is needed. I'm not sure it's entirely necessary to encourage large guilds to rank up small guilds, since most of the benefit (except boons) is provided for free simply by being in the alliance.
The reward/bonus for large guilds should be some form of structure discount and additional guild mark gain as the alliance level increases. If possible, it would also work well to automatically create some form of coffer donation (influence?) whenever a member of an allied smaller guild shops at the larger guild vendors (not tied to alliance level).
I'm not sure how to fit sword guilds smoothly into this structure.
Anyway, just brainstorming / theorycrafting.
Obviously you didn't understand the bonuses that a helm guild receives. A helm guild gets [alliance level]*.1 = % of structure discount and [alliance level]*.025 = % XP bonus. So large guilds in the helm position do in fact get a structure discount
Aside from that, as I understand it, the benefit for a large maxed guild to help small guilds is supposed to be that the large guilds can continue to gain guild marks by contributing to smaller guilds (and for people saying they would just up an alt guild for this, it is not going to be enough to absorb all the extra donations that a large guild has, unless you want to turn that alt guild into a genuine stronghold). The problem expressed by many people in this thread is that they are tired of farming already and guild marks are not a good enough reward.
Yes, I do understand how the bonuses currently work for all levels. I've an alliance on the ptr and was the first to report these bonuses here. My previous commentary regarding XP bonus for Helm guilds was in response to others suggesting that structure discount should be for gauntlet guilds and XP bonus should be for helm guilds (reverse of PTR).
I am leaning towards the idea posted above:
all guilds in alliance get to pick amongst their collective boons
all guilds in alliance get access to each other's markets and vendors
all resource contributions go towards 1 guild until that guild is maxed
when target guild is maxed, next highest ranked guild gets the contributions
All guilds should get a guild mark bonus % rather than the proposed XP %. (same percentage for each tier)
All of this is currently possible on the PTR except the first bullet (boons). Thus, I recommend the devs add the option for guilds in the alliance to share their boons.
Once a guild is maxed, it will want to remain in the alliance in order to (1) get guild marks -- their coffer is maxed, and (2) get access to boons they don't have. This also frees up the smaller guilds to not worry so much about having to farm a HUGE amount to gain access to market, vendor, boons, etc. Now the small guilds get all this stuff 'for free' and can focus on enjoying the game. Simple solution that doesn't require much programming changes, just the option to share boons.
Not sure what the hell happend to my comment, but: Please implement a system in which we can limit the visitors from joining our Stronghold and vice verca. Either an on/off button that'll include all guilds except for yours, or on/off button on certain guilds. This will prevent chaos during events with multiple members such as Dragonflight (people ninja join your DF, kill your dragons. People ninja join your DF, cap your SH map, send your other guildies on another map, etc.)
cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
Please make it so the guild leader of any guild in an alliance can send ressources from his guild coffer to another guild in the alliance.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited May 2016
Feedback:
Allow boons to be shared (a toggle-able setting) across the alliance -- give 'best available' if redundant (i.e. wizard tower rank 6 in one guild and rank 8 in another, give rank 8 as shared)
Have a setting to turn on / turn off stronghold map access if trying to run a guild-specific event (as aforementioned)
Have a setting for each stronghold vendor / structure in the stronghold to allow / disallow other guilds in alliance from using. Vary by guild tier level.
Allow guilds to send their farm/lumberyard/mine/quarry production to a specified guild in the alliance. Or, more generally, allow guild leaders within an alliance to send resources from his/her coffer to another allied guild coffer.
Any benefits such as XP or structure discount should be the same % for each guild in the alliance
I think many people in this thread are thinking about this completely backwards. Small guilds are already significantly benefited by joining a large guild alliance. They do not really need additional structure discounts because they don't even need to upgrade their stronghold; they already get the benefits from the helm guild (assuming boons become sharable). Instead, the entire alliance should focus on upgrading their max guild in order to improve their shared boons.
Also, to add to what people already said, the current system is bad. The only way a guild would like to donate to the lower ones in the alliance is if they're 20 and blocked (ie. can't go any further at the moment and depserate for guild marks). Even that scenario is unlikely, and if people have worthy vouchers, guild leaders will ask their members to keep them instead of donating them to others and block all export donations til further notice and the coffer unblocks (persae when they get the amount of influence they need to upgrade the PVP structures).
Give an extra incentive such as extra guild marks for donating to other guilds and make the bonuses equal for everybody. A helm guild (like mine for example) doesn't need the superior discount for structure upgrades, we're big for a reason. Small guilds are the ones in need of that exact bonus. I think the wrong mindset of the devs is that small guilds = low level alt guilds. That's simply not the case and it's extremely wrong to assume so. Giving everyone an equal bonus of 50/50 or something would be 100% fair and the only difference will be in ranking.
(also ffs no matter what html code I use, I can't color my own damn message)
tundrrabloomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 297Arc User
Q: with 13 guilds alliancing together, who invites? One main guild sends all the invites? Or does one guild send a couple and then another sends a couple and those combine to make 13?
Also, to add to what people already said, the current system is bad. The only way a guild would like to donate to the lower ones in the alliance is if they're 20 and blocked (ie. can't go any further at the moment and depserate for guild marks). Even that scenario is unlikely, and if people have worthy vouchers, guild leaders will ask their members to keep them instead of donating them to others and block all export donations til further notice and the coffer unblocks (persae when they get the amount of influence they need to upgrade the PVP structures).
Give an extra incentive such as extra guild marks for donating to other guilds and make the bonuses equal for everybody. A helm guild (like mine for example) doesn't need the superior discount for structure upgrades, we're big for a reason. Small guilds are the ones in need of that exact bonus. I think the wrong mindset of the devs is that small guilds = low level alt guilds. That's simply not the case and it's extremely wrong to assume so. Giving everyone an equal bonus of 50/50 or something would be 100% fair and the only difference will be in ranking.
(also ffs no matter what html code I use, I can't color my own damn message)
you know that u just contradicted yourself right? how does more guild marks on top of already useless guild marks make us want to donate to another coffer?
Also, to add to what people already said, the current system is bad. The only way a guild would like to donate to the lower ones in the alliance is if they're 20 and blocked (ie. can't go any further at the moment and depserate for guild marks). Even that scenario is unlikely, and if people have worthy vouchers, guild leaders will ask their members to keep them instead of donating them to others and block all export donations til further notice and the coffer unblocks (persae when they get the amount of influence they need to upgrade the PVP structures).
Give an extra incentive such as extra guild marks for donating to other guilds and make the bonuses equal for everybody. A helm guild (like mine for example) doesn't need the superior discount for structure upgrades, we're big for a reason. Small guilds are the ones in need of that exact bonus. I think the wrong mindset of the devs is that small guilds = low level alt guilds. That's simply not the case and it's extremely wrong to assume so. Giving everyone an equal bonus of 50/50 or something would be 100% fair and the only difference will be in ranking.
(also ffs no matter what html code I use, I can't color my own damn message)
you know that u just contradicted yourself right? how does more guild marks on top of already useless guild marks make us want to donate to another coffer?
Where in hell did I contradcit myself? No where in my post it says guild marks are useless. If a guild is 20 and has nothing to do with their structures anymore, they'd donate to other because they want guild marks. If a guild is NOT 20 and they have no incentive to donate to others rather than themselves, then they won't donate (unless you give them like 2x guild marks for stuff they donate to others or something similar).
Comments
You need to add mechanic to encourage the growth of the smaller guild by contribution of the larger guilds.
A couple ideas:
1. Have the donations trickle down. You donate to the coffer 100% goes to that guild and 25% bonus goes to the alliance guilds
2. A currency exchange. Main guild maxed out of metal? Exchange metal voucher for dungeons shards, can only be donated to alliance guilds (not main). Granted this one may be hard to balance but you get the idea
The crazy high cost of SH upgrades means that very few guilds are maxed. So they will all be encouraging donations to their OWN coffers rather than alliances coffer.
Also, is there not going to be boon sharing? I haven't see anything stating that but I know that access to boons other guilds had in the alliance was a very anticipated feature.
Everyone would want the cost reduction buff and everyone will seek the position that gives the most reduction. The whole system design will fail. You need to add different bonuses.
A small guild would need the reduction the most but if the alternative is XP buff, then I would choose reduction cost even if our GH is really high and were almost done upgrading.. You need to add other buffs that big guilds would pick over reduction costs. XP is not it.
Also I dont get why anyone would donate to someone elses coffer? Even if my guild were maxed out I would rather save all resources for another day for my own guild. It makes no sense. Whats the benefits from helping other guilds?..
What about giving gauntlet/sword guilds XP and cost reduction while head gets something different all together. Im not sure what that could be tho. I really dont like this system at all. I actually think this whole alliance system is a big waste of time when there is so much other things that needs focus in the game.
You should just rethink the costs for SH alltogether and skip bonuses.. If small guilds have problems advancing then maybe the prices for upgrades are too high.... And forcing everyone to do PvE like this is just wrong. Add Influence to PvP for starters.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
What did it do for me, allowed me to get GMs for the vouchers, which has equipped many alts with dragonflight gear, and will at double professions and with explorers guild 6 earn me a LOT of mastercrafting resources.
Helm guild must be > Sword guild must be > Guantlet
Also there could be a requirement based on amount of players in a guild. Like sword cant have more than X members?
But XP bonus has to go. Otherwise I dont even see the point in joining an alliance at all if you end up with a XP bonus. Thats totally useless for almost all guilds no matter what the size is.
And what about making it so that if you donate to someone elses guild, you get x2 guildmarks from it. Can be exploited tho by leaving and joining another guild and donate and then go back. I just feel that I need some motivation to farm boring stuff to help another guild. There is like no gain. After my guild reaches GH 20 I dont see anyone spending any time for free to keep farming. Im not sure if you have the impression that anyone thinks its fun to upgrade StrongHold. Because its really not.
Also I really dont like the idea that anyone can come to our stronghold and use our vendors and buy whatever WE worked for. Not for free. Maybe let the guilds decide that if another player wants to use our vendors then they have taxes to gain access (like influence or something).
Feels like Alliances is made for small guilds or guilds with lazy players to leech of guilds that did the work.
Another idea would be to give Helmet PvE bonuses like more influence from HEs while Sword can be more PvP focused and give influence for PvP matches.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
strange -> when i post feedback "bla bla bla need to be approved" -> when simple and small post, i have easy publication
upd
#rgutscheradev
1st:
Feedback: Want to Be Able to Slot Allied Guilds’ Boons
I wish we could slot boons from Allied Guilds. Then different guilds in the alliance could build different boon buildings. Right now everyone always builds the same stuff.
Nice idea! You need to do this.
2nd:
Feedback: Аlliances bonuses
Аlliances bonuses are really bad and unnecessary. Exp and construction discount for who? For small guilds - yes? What about big guilds? With 20 GH? They are bored for a very long time...You need to introduce hard content and intresting bonuses for strong guilds too.
P.S.: i really want dungeon with hall full of mobs lice last one in CN
Make other bonuses -> this do not give anithing intresting for strong guilds.
And sharing boons. Pls.
And we really need some hard content -> a lot of players dying of boredom.
What to do with 20gh 4k IL and many many alts? nothing...
And as far as I can tell, there is no finish line in this game, so we don't feel as though we're being "left behind" anything. Okay, sure, so big guilds can already do "X, Y, and Z", but we'll get there.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
If the reward for a Helm guild is XP, why would any large guild even be part of an alliance? Large guilds spent hundreds of millions of AD (and time) creating their stronghold, so why would they effectively give it (almost) all away for a little bit of mostly useless XP?
The reward/bonus for smaller guilds is simple: access to markets and vendors, large-scale dragon clears, and organized siege matches that they otherwise couldn't access. I'm not sure anything else is needed. I'm not sure it's entirely necessary to encourage large guilds to rank up small guilds, since most of the benefit (except boons) is provided for free simply by being in the alliance.
The reward/bonus for large guilds should be some form of structure discount and additional guild mark gain as the alliance level increases. If possible, it would also work well to automatically create some form of coffer donation (influence?) whenever a member of an allied smaller guild shops at the larger guild vendors (not tied to alliance level).
I'm not sure how to fit sword guilds smoothly into this structure.
Anyway, just brainstorming / theorycrafting.
Iyon the Dark
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Concept behind this approach: Small guilds don't join an alliance to rank themselves up, they join so they can stop worrying about ranking themselves up and get the benefits of the alliance helm. The alliance helm guild, in turn, gets all alliance resources. Would probably have to expand the coffer size of the helm guild, perhaps proportional to the number of guilds (or accounts) in the alliance.
Iyon the Dark
You dont need just give you boons to other guild.
For example -> we have 2 guilds 20gh and we have 3same building and 1 diff. Each guild wants to have this 1 boon from other build. Guilds can share between themselves this boons.
Just need to do next:
The possibility to use your boon by other guild. But the other guild needs to give you their boons.
If you have 20 GH and 8k of def -> guild with 10 gh will have just 4k of def when will use your boon. And if you will use their 4k of power you will have only 4k not more.
And in 1 time you can't share max that 1 boon.
This way all guilds can build different buildings.
I am sorry. for me it's very hard to explain smth in eng.
What inherent benefit is there for Large guilds to be part of an alliance? Altruism? That's unrealistic. This is about making the rewards fair for small and large guilds. Small guilds get huge implicit rewards from alliances. What's the equivalent for large guilds? Structure discounts, additional guild marks, and additional contributions. Large near-max guilds do need help. I would suggest a way to designate a next-in-line guild once the helm guild is fully maxed out.
Iyon the Dark
As much as this "alliance" idea sounds fun, i have some really big concerns which i will try to resume in a short list.
1) As a soon to be lv 20 guild without the help of outside sources i dont have much interest left in stronghold activities. Sure as the fact my nickname is rayrdan i m not going through mindblowing farm i already did to help lower level guilds regardless the reward im getting from doing so.
2) As far as rewards are concerned i read about XP bonus and stronghold structure discount:
- my guild is almost maxed why should we care about structure discount?
- my guild is a lv 70 guild only. Why should we want XP bonus? Even if power points by XP overflow where still a thing i honestly would not care.
- you can say: where are you going to get your guild marks then? the answer is: why should we want to get guild marks in the first place? we got what we wanted and if guild marks are going to be a problem we will create a second guild and slap ALTs in it.
3) if the possibility of sharing boons is being contempled i m again not seeing the reason to take guilds under our wing.
Why should we accept to share our boons with them for free. Even if some form of payment is provided we, again, are not going to need anything in a few weeks.
Someone ( probably whitestarua ) said if i got it right: "sharing boons is good because you can have access to other people structures and benefiting of those boons you could not use before becuase you lacked the right building"
I got power, i got armor pen, defense, lifesteal ad hp....and this is the choice most reasonable people did for reasons.
4) What will happen when a rank gamma guild decide to become a rank beta? or a rank beta with 3 rank gamma associated will decide to become a rank alfa? I guess all time wasted.
As it stands, i dont see the purpose of all of this.
Many little guilds decided to remain little. What's the difference between an alliance with shared chat, shared ques, shared strongholds and a common guild then?
Just the number of members.
If 100 members were too many for those players im sure they will find alliances disappointing.
I for one will propose to stay out of any aggregations. Im not a samaritan. Im definitely sure i ll do something else rather than upgrading other guilds' structures.
My only curiousity left is too see which guilds will have the misfortune to end up with BL.
Aside from that, as I understand it, the benefit for a large maxed guild to help small guilds is supposed to be that the large guilds can continue to gain guild marks by contributing to smaller guilds (and for people saying they would just up an alt guild for this, it is not going to be enough to absorb all the extra donations that a large guild has, unless you want to turn that alt guild into a genuine stronghold). The problem expressed by many people in this thread is that they are tired of farming already and guild marks are not a good enough reward. This is a problem inherent with Masterworks since masterworks is such a huge time and AD investment to level (and then to even make the gear) that very few people are doing it, and since things are so unobtainable no one cares about farming for the resources and thus prices stay stupidly high.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Making bonuses based on straight guild levels also leads to the problem of big guilds only wanting to group with big guilds, leaving smaller guilds in the dust in a much more severe way. If you're really loving the basic idea of how bonuses work across ranks, remove it from what you have and apply the idea to how much their guild level contributes to the bonus. Make it something that encourages bringing in small guilds that are advanced. You can't possibly prevent people from trying to create puppet guilds, short of banning, but you can at least try to offer incentives to bring in some small guilds and to get them built up (or at least don't punish the alliance if they stop being small/low level). So Helm could contribute Guild Level, Gauntlet can contribute (20-max(10,Guild Level) + Levels advanced past 10 while in alliance). Maybe a slight adjustment to the last one, with an overall min/max applied. And swords could contribute whichever of these values is largest, maybe.
Iyon the Dark
I am leaning towards the idea posted above:
- all guilds in alliance get to pick amongst their collective boons
- all guilds in alliance get access to each other's markets and vendors
- all resource contributions go towards 1 guild until that guild is maxed
- when target guild is maxed, next highest ranked guild gets the contributions
- All guilds should get a guild mark bonus % rather than the proposed XP %. (same percentage for each tier)
All of this is currently possible on the PTR except the first bullet (boons). Thus, I recommend the devs add the option for guilds in the alliance to share their boons.Once a guild is maxed, it will want to remain in the alliance in order to (1) get guild marks -- their coffer is maxed, and (2) get access to boons they don't have. This also frees up the smaller guilds to not worry so much about having to farm a HUGE amount to gain access to market, vendor, boons, etc. Now the small guilds get all this stuff 'for free' and can focus on enjoying the game. Simple solution that doesn't require much programming changes, just the option to share boons.
Iyon the Dark
Please implement a system in which we can limit the visitors from joining our Stronghold and vice verca. Either an on/off button that'll include all guilds except for yours, or on/off button on certain guilds. This will prevent chaos during events with multiple members such as Dragonflight (people ninja join your DF, kill your dragons. People ninja join your DF, cap your SH map, send your other guildies on another map, etc.)
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
- Allow boons to be shared (a toggle-able setting) across the alliance -- give 'best available' if redundant (i.e. wizard tower rank 6 in one guild and rank 8 in another, give rank 8 as shared)
- Have a setting to turn on / turn off stronghold map access if trying to run a guild-specific event (as aforementioned)
- Have a setting for each stronghold vendor / structure in the stronghold to allow / disallow other guilds in alliance from using. Vary by guild tier level.
- Allow guilds to send their farm/lumberyard/mine/quarry production to a specified guild in the alliance. Or, more generally, allow guild leaders within an alliance to send resources from his/her coffer to another allied guild coffer.
- Any benefits such as XP or structure discount should be the same % for each guild in the alliance
I think many people in this thread are thinking about this completely backwards. Small guilds are already significantly benefited by joining a large guild alliance. They do not really need additional structure discounts because they don't even need to upgrade their stronghold; they already get the benefits from the helm guild (assuming boons become sharable). Instead, the entire alliance should focus on upgrading their max guild in order to improve their shared boons.Iyon the Dark
Give an extra incentive such as extra guild marks for donating to other guilds and make the bonuses equal for everybody. A helm guild (like mine for example) doesn't need the superior discount for structure upgrades, we're big for a reason. Small guilds are the ones in need of that exact bonus. I think the wrong mindset of the devs is that small guilds = low level alt guilds. That's simply not the case and it's extremely wrong to assume so. Giving everyone an equal bonus of 50/50 or something would be 100% fair and the only difference will be in ranking.
(also ffs no matter what html code I use, I can't color my own damn message)
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
***Guild Recruitment Information***
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance