SW nerf?

zachisrising

With the changes to lostmauth set no longer crits. How will this effect the damage and spark build up?

taitinhakkaaja

base damage decrease from set 5-10%. -50% spark gain -> less spark generation way less soul scorch, dust to dust etc.
Maybe -20% to our dps, little hard to calculate accurately.

treesclimber

taitinhakkaaja said:

base damage decrease from set 5-10%. -50% spark gain -> less spark generation way less soul scorch, dust to dust etc.
Maybe -20% to our dps, little hard to calculate accurately.

Where did you see the sparks nerf?

fernuu

treesclimber said:

taitinhakkaaja said:

base damage decrease from set 5-10%. -50% spark gain -> less spark generation way less soul scorch, dust to dust etc.
Maybe -20% to our dps, little hard to calculate accurately.

Where did you see the sparks nerf?

Lostmauth's set bonus effect isn't no longer considered as critical hit. No crit = no sparks generation.

bonnine

Now after lostmauth change you get 1 spark from hadars grasp, down from 14 sparks

taitinhakkaaja

No. We will still get 1 spark for every crit and HG still crits normally.

bonnine

taitinhakkaaja said:

No. We will still get 1 spark for every crit and HG still crits normally.

i tried it on test server, it gives only 1 spark

schietindebux

only thing that generates more than 1 spark is BoVA and Dread theft

taitinhakkaaja

Seriously?? Well then it means they have made some ninja nerf. Well that's a "funny" way to make hell bringer viable again... and i understood their promise to balance sw other way -> BUFF sw
It really just makes me laugh, i'm just too tired for waiting some buffs.

schietindebux

My advice...spend 10 points in damnation to get spirits uptime optimized, max AP gain f.e. take energizing curse and let immolation spirits take care oft sparkgain for your furybuild
No dark revelry..but who cares

ghoulz66

Probably doesn't affect my spark gain. I like to use DT which was never affected by LM in the first place.

Maybe since it's nerfed it can worth with DT now:P

A small buff that'd be appreciated.

treesclimber

schietindebux said:

My advice...spend 10 points in damnation to get spirits uptime optimized, max AP gain f.e. take energizing curse and let immolation spirits take care oft sparkgain for your furybuild

No dark revelry..but who cares

Im assuming fury/damnation, no that is not good because: even assuming that you can afford to get brutal curse that way, when using TT brutal curse will benefit nothing as the speed of the ss cast gets reducted(you actually need to curse the target over and over again). There's no better daillie than TT in multi target, accursed souls in paper mobs. Dark revelry can be renewed before expiration. dark revelry speed increase is very helpfull with dread theft, avoiding knocks. Dark revelry gives a lot of boost if the player has high power(up to 17% on me) and also teammates if they do as well. Temptation path will grant more surviability. Many times i am looking at my IS to recast because im full of AP again. Dark revelry ftw!

taitinhakkaaja

I don't know how good idea this is, but i share it with you anyway
Hell bringer damnation with dark revelry. Orcus arti set and owlbear companion. Buff as much power as you can get and crit as low as you can get.
So problem is, what powers owlbear multiprocs?

treesclimber

taitinhakkaaja said:

I don't know how good idea this is, but i share it with you anyway
Hell bringer damnation with dark revelry. Orcus arti set and owlbear companion. Buff as much power as you can get and crit as low as you can get.
So problem is, what powers owlbear multiprocs?

Doesn't seem a good idea tbh, im not sure if owlbear active bonus procs in every encounters, but if it does it will be 6 SS vs 1 encounter from HB beside HB relies in atwills more than SB and at-wills dont proc owlbear bonus and finnally, investing in a non crit build when dread enchantment came out doesnt seem a very good idea, dread has increased further SB capabilities when compared to HB....

fernuu

Aye, soul scorch, even after sparks nerf, will still be best damage-wise encounter (especially for Fury as it's necrotic), only amount of swings will be little less.

taitinhakkaaja

Agreed to those, but you forgot puppet. Properly buffed it will do great dps. Other thing, our dot encounters do very little damage ticks so owlbear damage bonus is far more than normal crits. Now i have 44k combat power, but if i put all to power it will be better.
This build is mainly for easy ride t2 content in mind.

schietindebux

Nevermind , a damnation lock with 10 Points in fury will allways outdamage the damlock with 15 points in Temptation, allways...though he will not buff the group at all
If you go solo the damnation/temp may do better
Same will do a fury/damn 10 points to a fury/temp 15 points..Grab all buffs and do better damage
The single target damage your immolation spirits can deal are relevant as well and the improved version is a lot better
The benefit from spark per crit is also a bonus no fury/ templock will get that much
So i am pretty sure: every fury/damn will beat a fury/temp in a party
Only Problem is: if you do PVP that's no option

fernuu

I still believe that every pure fury will beat both fury/damn and fury/temp
Not sure about fury vs damn in CN - I seen both results. Sierra as damnation outdpsed me, while yesterday I did CN with OP, DC, 3 SW (2 damn + me) and I ended outdpsing them both (95kk here vs. 72 and 65).

treesclimber

schietindebux said:

Nevermind , a damnation lock with 10 Points in fury will allways outdamage the damlock with 15 points in Temptation, allways...though he will not buff the group at all

If you go solo the damnation/temp may do better

Same will do a fury/damn 10 points to a fury/temp 15 points..Grab all buffs and do better damage

The single target damage your immolation spirits can deal are relevant as well and the improved version is a lot better

The benefit from spark per crit is also a bonus no fury/ templock will get that much

So i am pretty sure: every fury/damn will beat a fury/temp in a party

Only Problem is: if you do PVP that's no option

Not always, ac dc can boost my power to 80k, during that time dark revelry will count as 30 something% buff, i doubt critical promisse and burning soul can get anywhere near. I would like to see a BIS sw as myself, even not having guild for power boons, being outdpsed by a fury/damnation, not a chance, my is are always up single target and multi target tt is the key.....i just cant see brutal curse topping that.

schietindebux

I am pretty sure it depends on the group composition.
Please try GF+Hunter+DC...at least this combination let's puppet run ammok

schietindebux

treesclimber said:

schietindebux said:

Nevermind , a damnation lock with 10 Points in fury will allways outdamage the damlock with 15 points in Temptation, allways...though he will not buff the group at all

If you go solo the damnation/temp may do better

Same will do a fury/damn 10 points to a fury/temp 15 points..Grab all buffs and do better damage

The single target damage your immolation spirits can deal are relevant as well and the improved version is a lot better

The benefit from spark per crit is also a bonus no fury/ templock will get that much

So i am pretty sure: every fury/damn will beat a fury/temp in a party

Only Problem is: if you do PVP that's no option

Not always, ac dc can boost my power to 80k, during that time dark revelry will count as 30 something% buff, i doubt critical promisse and burning soul can get anywhere near. I would like to see a BIS sw as myself, even not having guild for power boons, being outdpsed by a fury/damnation, not a chance, my is are always up single target and multi target tt is the key.....i just cant see brutal curse topping that.

In case a damnation temp runs side by side with a damnation/fury, same gear , same group damnation fury will out dps damnation/temp because--> he will get the dark revelry buff (+ DC buff) + ghastly commander (+10% damage) + critical promise+ burnig soul (up to 10%)

in case a fury/templock (15) runs side by side with a fury/damn (10), same gear , same group fury/damnation will out dps fury/temptation because--> he will get the dark revelry buff (+ DC buff) + 20 second immolation spirits on single target + brutal course
It´s a "parasitic" build, but it will do more in realtion to otherones in same group ....but will do worse solo
simple math imo

one more to say...DC spams dDG+DG most time in the center near tank/boss, eDG has 30 feet range, eBtS same or more maybe 40....but i watched so many casterclasses standing far, far away from boss and from DC at the edge of a room not getting buffed by that
so best place from my POV as a DC is the mid, back of the boss not 50 feet away

ftryda

Once you hit certain power/life steal values then dark revelry is hands down better than any bonus in the fury tree. Mainly because the resulting damage bonus is applied to all targets and not just those under warlocks curse (divided between mind you).. with buffs it is even less of a question as to the better choice and can be obtained well below BiS character...

On to the actual topic though, can anyone on PC actually run some more testing? Maybe compare overall damage % from soul scorch on actual server vs preview? Or maybe compare overall average effectiveness values if you use burning soul feat in order to identify a significant overall lack of spark generation which should result in an average of less sparks at any given time thus resulting in a measurable decrease in the damage bonus... hard numbers is better than speculation. All I see in forums are CWs throwing out a hard value of around 30% dps reduction and saying how this is worst for them over anyone, but in my opinion I feel like the indirect effects on the SW are going to be much more significant than most think.

ftryda

*Delete dble post*

treesclimber

schietindebux said:

treesclimber said:

schietindebux said:

Nevermind , a damnation lock with 10 Points in fury will allways outdamage the damlock with 15 points in Temptation, allways...though he will not buff the group at all

If you go solo the damnation/temp may do better

Same will do a fury/damn 10 points to a fury/temp 15 points..Grab all buffs and do better damage

The single target damage your immolation spirits can deal are relevant as well and the improved version is a lot better

The benefit from spark per crit is also a bonus no fury/ templock will get that much

So i am pretty sure: every fury/damn will beat a fury/temp in a party

Only Problem is: if you do PVP that's no option

Not always, ac dc can boost my power to 80k, during that time dark revelry will count as 30 something% buff, i doubt critical promisse and burning soul can get anywhere near. I would like to see a BIS sw as myself, even not having guild for power boons, being outdpsed by a fury/damnation, not a chance, my is are always up single target and multi target tt is the key.....i just cant see brutal curse topping that.

In case a damnation temp runs side by side with a damnation/fury, same gear , same group damnation fury will out dps damnation/temp because--> he will get the dark revelry buff (+ DC buff) + ghastly commander (+10% damage) + critical promise+ burnig soul (up to 10%)

in case a fury/templock (15) runs side by side with a fury/damn (10), same gear , same group fury/damnation will out dps fury/temptation because--> he will get the dark revelry buff (+ DC buff) + 20 second immolation spirits on single target + brutal course
It´s a "parasitic" build, but it will do more in realtion to otherones in same group ....but will do worse solo
simple math imo

one more to say...DC spams dDG+DG most time in the center near tank/boss, eDG has 30 feet range, eBtS same or more maybe 40....but i watched so many casterclasses standing far, far away from boss and from DC at the edge of a room not getting buffed by that
so best place from my POV as a DC is the mid, back of the boss not 50 feet away

I think it's somewhere in the forum that dark revelry stacks, so even being parasitic build will be worse....
I mentioned ac dc because of aa and stupid power buff paired with companion procing bonding runestones + weapons of light.

schietindebux

ftryda said:

Once you hit certain power/life steal values then dark revelry is hands down better than any bonus in the fury tree. Mainly because the resulting damage bonus is applied to all targets and not just those under warlocks curse (divided between mind you).. with buffs it is even less of a question as to the better choice and can be obtained well below BiS character...



On to the actual topic though, can anyone on PC actually run some more testing? Maybe compare overall damage % from soul scorch on actual server vs preview? Or maybe compare overall average effectiveness values if you use burning soul feat in order to identify a significant overall lack of spark generation which should result in an average of less sparks at any given time thus resulting in a measurable decrease in the damage bonus... hard numbers is better than speculation. All I see in forums are CWs throwing out a hard value of around 30% dps reduction and saying how this is worst for them over anyone, but in my opinion I feel like the indirect effects on the SW are going to be much more significant than most think.

only thing i can tell is, what happens if I spam 10 min on preview with my fury PVP build+zenlock wearing bronzewood on a single dummy using SS+DT+spirits, wich is your main source for sparks beside "essence defiler"
so in case I compare HG+DT/SS or WB+DT/SS, or BoVA+DT/SS my overall dps is near same 30-32k
effectiveness of creeping death is much better using WB, most SS i get from Bova+DT combo so there we have more benefit from SS
Hadar grasp is not that effective any more and may be used situational, but I will go with DT/SS and WB or Bova (if adds are involved)
Damage from lolset is 5% using HG and 3% using WB/BoVA
my crit is not that high on preview but in case you have high critstats Bova gains tons of sparks in case you stand behind the boss (CN all 3 bosses) so i would say your best way is BoVA having crit

maybe Black-Ice-Set will do better having con/char bonus, maybe Orcus set is new BIS..who knows
interstingly lolsetprocs from HG every tick and is about 35% from original damage,
same with procs from BoVA crit 2276 lolset 1420

I did not check my GWF but I am pretty sure that lolset will stay BIS for GWF, far above anything else, since all I do with GWF is spamming at wills and lolset procs from every crit weapondamage as before
so main classes who gets nerfed are caster like CW who generated massive damage from losetprocs, warlock only in terms of sparkgain i would say, losing Hadar grasp
GWF may be evenmore OP than before like that, compared to other classes who did benefit from these passive procs
i think cryptic did not balance anything with that kind of "fix", but I have to check GWF first

Okay I spammed few minutes in WOD on preview...GWF gets nerfed because losetbonus seems to be capped to 2000, no proc higher than that so in case my WMS deal 50k i get 2k procs, big difference than before

so lolsetbonus got modified, the lower the weapondamage the higher the percentual proc, cap at 2k
so best to go is an encounter with lots of little procs, we only have Bova and HG...Harrowstorm and Dt doesn work with lolset, accursed souls also procs lolset 10 procs on 3 dummies..seems to be bugged

zeusom

Lostmauth change is a pretty big nerf to pvp SW because it has a huge effect on both SW spark generation and overall damage threat. The ability to move from node to node and quickyl get sparks (and therefore survival) up on the fly is gone. The ability to delete players from the map under certain conditions is gone. A significant chunk of SW damage is gone.

Warlock Bargain + Haders no longer fills sparks.
Warlock bargaining a pally no longer can instafill sparks.
Lots of bonus Lostmauth damage has been lost (20% or more of dps easily)
Have not tested, but SW-SW and SW-Pal lostmauth loop melting probably will not occur.
Spark generation will be far slower.

But if the SW buffs are coming soon, this change was necessary because with SW buffs and lostmauth set left as it was, SW would probably be too overpowered.

schietindebux

de facto it´s a very effective nerf of the lolset, maybe time to get some black Ice ..best compromis between PVE and PVP?

taitinhakkaaja

So any1 got owlbear? What powers it multiproc (if any)?

crystal892f

treesclimber said:

even assuming that you can afford to get brutal curse that way, when using TT brutal curse will benefit nothing as the speed of the ss cast gets reducted(you actually need to curse the target over and over again)

Wait, what? The first encounter use on a TT marked target only applys Brutal Curses damage bonus once unless I cast that awfully long animation of a TT mark again after every encounter?

treesclimber

crystal892f said:

treesclimber said:

even assuming that you can afford to get brutal curse that way, when using TT brutal curse will benefit nothing as the speed of the ss cast gets reducted(you actually need to curse the target over and over again)

Wait, what? The first encounter use on a TT marked target only applys Brutal Curses damage bonus once unless I cast that awfully long animation of a TT mark again after every encounter?

"That awfully long animation of a TT mark" is warlock curse, and yes, you need to cast over and over again.

schietindebux said:

in fact it´s a very effective nerf of the lolset, maybe time to get some black Ice ..best compromis between PVE and PVP?

I never used it, never had problem, within some range of "having a problem",i got a ring of sieging +4 and using a build similar to yours pvp one, endless stamina and a additional perfect negation in movement, just need a ring of impenetrability now, if it drops from POM better forget about it, i dont get a gold there in months. I carried lathander set before, ap reduction is too heavy, now i use costume artifacts + black ice belt + valindra amulet.

zeusom said:

Lostmauth
Have not tested, but SW-SW and SW-Pal lostmauth loop melting probably will not occur.

I know it hapened with opponent aura of vengeance and team aura of courage, was there other way?

fernuu

crystal892f said:

treesclimber said:

even assuming that you can afford to get brutal curse that way, when using TT brutal curse will benefit nothing as the speed of the ss cast gets reducted(you actually need to curse the target over and over again)

Wait, what? The first encounter use on a TT marked target only applys Brutal Curses damage bonus once unless I cast that awfully long animation of a TT mark again after every encounter?

Don't know why you think so. Just tested with ACT, both effectiveness and damage are same with and without recasting TT.