I am extremely interested in the campaign for Elemental Evil from 60-70. Even though I am 70 and have (painfully) fought my way through that content will I be able to go back and participate in the new story quests? And the Campaign?
I personally can say that even if I have Lostmauth's set, it is overpowered compared to other sets. It contributes for 26% of my whole damage. Devs could definitely do one of two things: 1- drop damage to 50-75% (60% would be good) of base weapon damage and still disallow multiprocs 2- drop damage to 20-30% (25%) of base weapon damage and allow multiprocs
I also have a valindra's set in bank in case it gets reduced more than that since i knew a nerf was coming.
what a joke! I can understand some nerfing but seriously take 5 2000 item level people and but them in any epic dungeon and lets see someone complete it! I roll with the punches and adjust but this is getting crazy! I have completed 5 characters to 70 one in which is a paladin and one is a non haste cleric.. I am not a perma bubble nor do I want to be but this is ridiculous! you will hurt the game and the game play! I can see nerfing PVP abilities but not PVE.. I couldn't even imagine trying to do an epic crag.. and forget epic wolf den... that will never happen.... reconsider what you are wanting to change!
Lostmauth's set is getting nerfed and it makes sw's spark gain cut to half. So where is our promised buff?
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I think a serious look needs to be taken at the consequences of this. My 3 mains are 3200-3520 OP tankadin/AP DC/GWF with lostmauths so I take a serious hit.
My points:
GWF: My damage is already nerfed by not being able to use determination on demand reasonably often. Fair enough this could be to do with being unable to lose temp hits due to bubble. However without that bubble in dungeons, following the determination nerf I find myself getting one or two shotted way too much with the reduction in temporary hits.
DC: Needs a complete replan, I am 100% focused on providing APs and spamming dailies with enormous recovery. With the changes, I will switch to buff/debuff. Now I find I have the wrong enchantments and no way can afford to switch them over, but much more important the wrong artifacts. So do I give up my orange/teal sigils and get NOTHING back for them because they can't be used to refine other artifacts. This needs to change if you're going to make changes as fundamental as this. I simply can't afford to refine another artifact from scratch.
OP: people who spent serious amounts of money on getting a snail to permabubble will be justifiably upset (I didn't, and am just about perma due to picking everything I can for recovery). Same issue as the cleric, I have potentially the wrong enchantments and artifacts now. I have some difficulty holding aggro atm, meaning that without the permabubble, the taunting ability/strength may need to be upped or teams will wipe.
GF: IF you can do a dungeon with a GF tank rather than a pally, you will already do it faster. My fastest runs of every T2 were all done with GF tanks already, BUT dungeons that would be messy with a 2K GF tank are easy with equivalently geared OP/AP DC.
Hi, first of all sorry for bad english :) I wanna ask about DC. Ok i understand ap gain changes but what about healing? maybe u have tried play dc or im affraid no. before mod 6 and cap lvl 70 u rework full dc becouse finaly someone start playing this class and seen what useless was that class. so weak heal. after changes but still in lvl 60 dc became powerfull healer and very usefull in pt. After cap 70 lvl all monsters and bosses rise with power and strenght of attack like 300 maybe 400% and, heal of clerics rise 10 - 20%. dou think is proper proportion? dont check classes with full leg sets and rank 12 enchantments and full guilds boons. in game are most off pll not with 8000 def 8000 pow. and full leg sets. i think befor u put new mod, new changes u should ask real players what they wanna see, whats work properly and whats not. i have palyed in few games for 6 -7 years and this game is first one where i see in only almost 3 yeras so many changes. i feel like a bit when new menegment comming everythink is changing because they have different vision but remember its a product and ppl what get in the begin wants to keep to the and. one time u lost a lot of players already. Ok lets back to healing of dc's. please rise strenght of healing spells. check the virtuos path how hard is keep pt alive with healing word, shield and bastion, coz of over time heal and so low healing strenght. I have check on preview faithfull path. good still heal is so low.
I think a serious look needs to be taken at the consequences of this. My 3 mains are 3200-3520 OP tankadin/AP DC/GWF with lostmauths so I take a serious hit.
My points:
GWF: My damage is already nerfed by not being able to use determination on demand reasonably often. Fair enough this could be to do with being unable to lose temp hits due to bubble. However without that bubble in dungeons, following the determination nerf I find myself getting one or two shotted way too much with the reduction in temporary hits.
DC: Needs a complete replan, I am 100% focused on providing APs and spamming dailies with enormous recovery. With the changes, I will switch to buff/debuff. Now I find I have the wrong enchantments and no way can afford to switch them over, but much more important the wrong artifacts. So do I give up my orange/teal sigils and get NOTHING back for them because they can't be used to refine other artifacts. This needs to change if you're going to make changes as fundamental as this. I simply can't afford to refine another artifact from scratch.
OP: people who spent serious amounts of money on getting a snail to permabubble will be justifiably upset (I didn't, and am just about perma due to picking everything I can for recovery). Same issue as the cleric, I have potentially the wrong enchantments and artifacts now. I have some difficulty holding aggro atm, meaning that without the permabubble, the taunting ability/strength may need to be upped or teams will wipe.
GF: IF you can do a dungeon with a GF tank rather than a pally, you will already do it faster. My fastest runs of every T2 were all done with GF tanks already, BUT dungeons that would be messy with a 2K GF tank are easy with equivalently geared OP/AP DC.
Buffs and debuffs on DC are pretty much all independent of stats. There's the power buffs from righteous/blessing of battle but you should have been stacking power anyways. And if all else fails you just put radiants on a striker with bonding runestones. DC came out of this largely unscathed since all they really need to do is spec out of GoH if they're not sticking with virtuous.
While i agree to 50% with the nerf, my other 50% is fighting it with all my senses.
This is pretty much a marketing trick again and an immature way to solve the eLOL problem in with 1 shot. Kinda reminds me of one old German folk tale.
The marketing trick is, as some above me stated, that eLOL has run it's course by now, most people i guess have it and Cryptic needs new ways to force us to spend again. While this wouldn't be a huge problem, if it wasn't for the combination of low RNG drop rates of new items, low RP gain, lower AD income across the board and COA wards deleted from Trade Bar Store. So let's see the bigger picture here!
Finally it might be me, but i find the short life cycle of items depressing. You don't throw out the biedermeier furniture, just to get a new desk for the kid, i mean a sane person wouldn't, here this tempo and style is way beyond normal.
If this is pushed out this harsh way, at least give us a 100% exchange rate, when it comes to RP. It would already be a huge task to acquire the new arti sets. Paying a ton of hardly attainable RP for upgrade again is beyond the capability of many. Most of us normal, non-exploiting or super rich players can't keep up with the tempo.
Each new Mod reduces the alt friendliness in the game. I personally don't know, how i will be able to change my entire set of enchants, artifacts and arti sets on 5 of my eLOL set user toons.
I agree eLOL was over performing, but couldn't you, Devs find a sweet spot, like in the middle, why nerf it to the ground?
Isn't it a twisted logic to push out the nerf, but forget about the fact, that some classes, like CW for example are literally living on that set. Cool, let's make the CW a controller again, but show me, where? Old dungeons required control, but since Mod 6 disaster we have no need for real control, everything needs to melt.
Have you dear Devs thought about compensating/buffing these classes first and then nerfing eLOL. Sorry, but when i want to get my shoes on, first i get my socks on, not vice versa.
Additionally you Devs say content has become trivial. Sure for the small minority sitting on top, with all the pre-Mod 6 gear, double proccing companions, etc, but i invite you to an average Joe style group, where all these goodies are non-existent and just watch, it won't be 8 seconds, it will be a hard fight for up to 30 mins in some cases.
My question, have you Devs thought about it, what will those normal players do, how will they defeat a normal eToS with eLOL being nerfed, but no class buffs and no other viable sets, not to speak about the fact, how a causal player will be able to get the new stuff?
Last, but not least eLOL had a huge positive side, maybe it was boring on all classes, i agree and not logical stat wise, but at least it, it worked! Cool, let's get Valindra set for my CW and what, the dmg output is laughable.
Wouldn't it be better to first rework the other sets and then nerf eLOL a bit?
I would really appreciated the nerf of those bugged items first, they are the core problem for trivial content for the ones, who have access to it, but i guess you don't dare to "fix" them, the whales would be upset and not pay anymore, so let's nerf eLOL. The whales can adopt easily yet again, but what about us, the majority, where should we get all the AD/RP for this huge change, cause this isn't just about eLOL, it is like a domino game, one stone will make others fall, entire chars need to be outfitted nearly from scratch.
I don't wan't to paint it all too black, but i feel a small exodus coming again or more angry customers, which tbh none of them is good.
Post edited by matthiasthehun76 on
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The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I think a serious look needs to be taken at the consequences of this. My 3 mains are 3200-3520 OP tankadin/AP DC/GWF with lostmauths so I take a serious hit.
My points:
GWF: My damage is already nerfed by not being able to use determination on demand reasonably often. Fair enough this could be to do with being unable to lose temp hits due to bubble. However without that bubble in dungeons, following the determination nerf I find myself getting one or two shotted way too much with the reduction in temporary hits.
DC: Needs a complete replan, I am 100% focused on providing APs and spamming dailies with enormous recovery. With the changes, I will switch to buff/debuff. Now I find I have the wrong enchantments and no way can afford to switch them over, but much more important the wrong artifacts. So do I give up my orange/teal sigils and get NOTHING back for them because they can't be used to refine other artifacts. This needs to change if you're going to make changes as fundamental as this. I simply can't afford to refine another artifact from scratch.
OP: people who spent serious amounts of money on getting a snail to permabubble will be justifiably upset (I didn't, and am just about perma due to picking everything I can for recovery). Same issue as the cleric, I have potentially the wrong enchantments and artifacts now. I have some difficulty holding aggro atm, meaning that without the permabubble, the taunting ability/strength may need to be upped or teams will wipe.
GF: IF you can do a dungeon with a GF tank rather than a pally, you will already do it faster. My fastest runs of every T2 were all done with GF tanks already, BUT dungeons that would be messy with a 2K GF tank are easy with equivalently geared OP/AP DC.
Buffs and debuffs on DC are pretty much all independent of stats. There's the power buffs from righteous/blessing of battle but you should have been stacking power anyways. And if all else fails you just put radiants on a striker with bonding runestones. DC came out of this largely unscathed since all they really need to do is spec out of GoH if they're not sticking with virtuous.
Don't tell me what I should/shouldn't do, I was hugely recovery focused to deliver maximum APs which has been made a totally invalid build now with these changes but worked really well with the people I teamed with. I now need to swap around 10 rank 10/11 whites for yellows and can't afford it. Also I will no longer want my teal DC sigil, but I can't get any RPs for it.
The game cannot freeze it has to keep moving and evolving. There always has to be something new that's better. You cannot stay with the same gear and stats forever!!!
The game cannot freeze it has to keep moving and evolving. There always has to be something new that's better. You cannot stay with the same gear and stats forever!!!
As if it really matters. lolset will still be the best DPS set unless orcus is better. If orcus is better it kind of defeats the whole supposed purpose in nerfing the lolset.
They'll nerf it and it'll take SWs a whole ten seconds to kill orcus.
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mysticmarksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 117Arc User
I'm glad the adjustments are happening as stated. All vested day one players like myself have waited for this balance to occur. I play all classes as 2.5k+ including 2 paladins to play both rolls effectively. I can do all content without issue with nearly any team composition on any class. The Set alignment will help bring all of the sets back into alignment for utility and value. I will continue to use the lost set on my TR but will change it on my CW. It's not a class appropriate set and it brings all classes out of alignment making far too many glass cannons. It simply kills the challenge of the game. These changes will pull the paladin tanks back down to the appropriate place for pvp and should help domination matches to be far more fun again for other classes dealing with hard tanks. In playing all classes, the most broken class is currently the gwf. It needs quite a few adjustments to play its roll more effectively. All 3 feat trees need more balance. Hopefully the team gets a chance to tackle that BEFORE they release the new class.
Sometimes you're your own best teacher. ~Me
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
edited April 2016
OK I try to be as clear as possible
I like some changes to be made, but this is TOO FAR I am free to play person All my characters I built throught hard work, dedication nd most importantly T1 dungeons I do everything legally I started with my first char HR to do dungeons Now I have tank op healer OP AP dc BUFF dc GWF My Main is GWF I have about 2500 TIL on her and ELOL SET Most chars I play are my 2 dcs And then OP I play with all sorts of people all TILS My problem isn't many wanting a balance My problem is that most of this scream for balance comes from PayToWin PVP community One of my friends on NeverWinter he has little time to play so he pays in some cash to speed it up He told me once that now we got to a point where free to play people in PVP are getting 1 over those who spent hundreds if not thousands and they will scream for changes So they did And devs heard them Now 2000 OP due to bubble is just as effective as 4000 OP Nerf bubble and what happens? 3000+ PEOPLE WILL TELL 2000 OP ''Get lost you too low now'' THIS is not going to be a balance if it stays like this This be an incredible UNFAIR IMBALANCE As all hard working 2000-2500 TIL plays will be rubbished over night
We already had this become when we had Gear Score - snobbery and elitism was killing everything. No one cared for the skill only for numbers This change will rubbish everyone below 3000 TIL I did T2 with 2000 people if they know wHAT they doing it doable I did 2000 ecc on my op when she was only 2000 TIL Make the changes work only in PVP And leave the PVE ALONE!!! PVP community wants this so they can kill Free2Play people easily in PVP And then IN PVE they can tell same people who want go dungeon ''you are too NUB go away 3000+ only pls'''
This is officially Free2Play game With ZEN optional Why are we doing a patch that will ruin most or all lower players? Right now a team of 5 2000 1 op 1 ap dc 3 DPS can do ETOS ecc may be not EGWD And then? Without bubble in ecc you can't stand on Traven's fire eTOS spitting spiders can 1 hit even 4k TIL person in some places
Only thing left for us be T1 elol mc vt and skirmishes
Where is this going? If you doing such massive reduction - reduce mobs HP and attack in the dungeons So reduced player stats can still make dungeons doable with good team and good skills And if you leave it as it is most players will be locked out of most dungeons and high level PVE content permanently
This isn't a way guys A lot of people live from doing dungeons myself included Doing this without reducing mobs as will will lock out everyone below 3000 TIL Unless they are super-pr0 and can manage
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
I'm glad the adjustments are happening as stated. All vested day one players like myself have waited for this balance to occur. I play all classes as 2.5k+ including 2 paladins to play both rolls effectively. I can do all content without issue with nearly any team composition on any class. The Set alignment will help bring all of the sets back into alignment for utility and value. I will continue to use the lost set on my TR but will change it on my CW. It's not a class appropriate set and it brings all classes out of alignment making far too many glass cannons. It simply kills the challenge of the game. These changes will pull the paladin tanks back down to the appropriate place for pvp and should help domination matches to be far more fun again for other classes dealing with hard tanks. In playing all classes, the most broken class is currently the gwf. It needs quite a few adjustments to play its roll more effectively. All 3 feat trees need more balance. Hopefully the team gets a chance to tackle that BEFORE they release the new class.
PVP? Did you EVER seen anything out side of PVP? Those changes will make Paladins easyer to kill in PVP - yes And then sme Paladins will be killed just as easy if not more easier BY PVE MOBS For the love of God PLEASE STOP thinking JUST IN PVP TERNS
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Again and AGAIN people who only PVP don't care what happens in PVE world Why should they command the changes that affects EVERYONE?
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
While i agree to 50% with the nerf, my other 50% is fighting it with all my senses.
This is pretty much a marketing trick again and an immature way to solve the eLOL problem in with 1 shot. Kinda reminds me of one old German folk tale.
The marketing trick is, as some above me stated, that eLOL has run it's course by now, most people i guess have it and Cryptic needs new ways to force us to spend again. While this wouldn't be a huge problem, if it wasn't for the combination of low RNG drop rates of new items, low RP gain, lower AD income across the board and COA wards deleted from Trade Bar Store. So let's see the bigger picture here!
Finally it might be me, but i find the short life cycle of items depressing. You don't throw out the biedermeier furniture, just to get a new desk for the kid, i mean a sane person wouldn't, here this tempo and style is way beyond normal.
If this is pushed out this harsh way, at least give us a 100% exchange rate, when it comes to RP. It would already be a huge task to acquire the new arti sets. Paying a ton of hardly attainable RP for upgrade again is beyond the capability of many. Most of us normal, non-exploiting or super rich players can't keep up with the tempo.
Each new Mod reduces the alt friendliness in the game. I personally don't know, how i will be able to change my entire set of enchants, artifacts and arti sets on 5 of my eLOL set user toons.
I agree eLOL was over performing, but couldn't you, Devs find a sweet spot, like in the middle, why nerf it to the ground?
Isn't it a twisted logic to push out the nerf, but forget about the fact, that some classes, like CW for example are literally living on that set. Cool, let's make the CW a controller again, but show me, where? Old dungeons required control, but since Mod 6 disaster we have no need for real control, everything needs to melt.
Have you dear Devs thought about compensating/buffing these classes first and then nerfing eLOL. Sorry, but when i want to get my shoes on, first i get my socks on, not vice versa.
Additionally you Devs say content has become trivial. Sure for the small minority sitting on top, with all the pre-Mod 6 gear, double proccing companions, etc, but i invite you to an average Joe style group, where all these goodies are non-existent and just watch, it won't be 8 seconds, it will be a hard fight for up to 30 mins in some cases.
My question, have you Devs thought about it, what will those normal players do, how will they defeat a normal eToS with eLOL being nerfed, but no class buffs and no other viable sets, not to speak about the fact, how a causal player will be able to get the new stuff?
Last, but not least eLOL had a huge positive side, maybe it was boring on all classes, i agree and not logical stat wise, but at least it, it worked! Cool, let's get Valindra set for my CW and what, the dmg output is laughable.
Wouldn't it be better to first rework the other sets and then nerf eLOL a bit?
I would really appreciated the nerf of those bugged items first, they are the core problem for trivial content for the ones, who have access to it, but i guess you don't dare to "fix" them, the whales would be upset and not pay anymore, so let's nerf eLOL. The whales can adopt easily yet again, but what about us, the majority, where should we get all the AD/RP for this huge change, cause this isn't just about eLOL, it is like a domino game, one stone will make others fall, entire chars need to be outfitted nearly from scratch.
I don't wan't to paint it all too black, but i feel a small exodus coming again or more angry customers, which tbh none of them is good.
excellent view point Reducing Paladin's reduction of damage from 80% to 50% is too much Divine Protector from 20 seconds to 6 second - too much Good medium would be: Damage reduction from 80% to 60% Divine Protector from 20 sec to 10-12 sec Reduce it enought to stop perma-bubble But nit as much as to make OP in effect useless? If OP can't aggro entire lot in the room how he can protect team? Some people I heard been saying ''learn to dodge'' For example in Ecc a lot of mobs have ranged attack How can you dodge a ranger that is ran by a computer? You dash and he just retargets you again Unless OP can aggro all of them onto him/herself But then with only 50% damage reduction he will be dead sooner then others can kill them After that they shoot dead everyone else
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
what a joke! I can understand some nerfing but seriously take 5 2000 item level people and but them in any epic dungeon and lets see someone complete it! I roll with the punches and adjust but this is getting crazy! I have completed 5 characters to 70 one in which is a paladin and one is a non haste cleric.. I am not a perma bubble nor do I want to be but this is ridiculous! you will hurt the game and the game play! I can see nerfing PVP abilities but not PVE.. I couldn't even imagine trying to do an epic crag.. and forget epic wolf den... that will never happen.... reconsider what you are wanting to change!
Actually you can complete Not EGWD And may be not ecc But ETOS yes And vt elol mc yes
[...] what will those normal players do, how will they defeat a normal eToS [...], not to speak about the fact, how a causal player will be able to get the new stuff?
My main is HR IL 2.5. My last epic dungeon visit has been ToS (for the book of the dragon campaign) about a month ago. The bozz ads k.o.'d her in 2 hits 2 times. I see the minimum IL for epic is 2000. This may work for organized dungeon visits, like from a guild making a good team. As for PuGs, dungeon visits are mostly disorganized, there is a lot to see, to react to, including other adventurers stumbling around.
So I made a rule of thumb, item level has to be around +800 for PuGs on epic dungeons. I may eventually get to 2.8 IL in half a year or so. Until then, no epic dungeons for me, and I already have about 70 epic dungeon keys sitting in the bags.
There is lots of other activities to turn to, so I am not complaining. If anything, maybe if for non premades the difficulty of epic dungeons could be turned down a bit, that might help. Sometimes I feel, mob power is toned down after being k.o. too fast, e.g. in Vault of the Nine, maybe something like this for epic dungeons, too.
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Bubble down to 6 seconds, Heroism down to 10 seconds and Shield of Faith down to 12 seconds. Way to go Cryptic! =D
Another PVP thinker? Let's ruin PVE to hell I am pvp whale I don't care for PVE dolhins...
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
OK FRESH IDEA
Let's just made a new paragon path for PVP For example on Paladin we have Oath of Protection and Oath of Devotion And we add Oath of Defender On Oath of Defender Paladin would have feats for defense tenancy and such that would only work in pvp against other players On GWF we can have Path called Headhunter for example
johnjohniiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 108Arc User
unintended consequences... edemo and many of the bosses will not be killable. with the removal of nearly 1/2 of party damage it's going to be impossible for anything less than a 3k+ full group to take down demo in time. They are also talking about changing the pally bubble... say goodbye to castle never. i've run it several times with a great group. (two +3k gwfs, 1 4k gf, 1 3k gf, and a healer and we couldn't beat the final boss. the only way i've seen or heard of it being done is with a bubble pally. cryptic, you've buffed the baddies, a nerf isn't the way to go. take your time and buff.
unintended consequences... edemo and many of the bosses will not be killable. with the removal of nearly 1/2 of party damage it's going to be impossible for anything less than a 3k+ full group to take down demo in time. They are also talking about changing the pally bubble... say goodbye to castle never. i've run it several times with a great group. (two +3k gwfs, 1 4k gf, 1 3k gf, and a healer and we couldn't beat the final boss. the only way i've seen or heard of it being done is with a bubble pally. cryptic, you've buffed the baddies, a nerf isn't the way to go. take your time and buff.
Admittedly it was mostly people around 3k, but my guild just did emo with only OPs and GFs. I really doubt that DPS classes are going to have that much harder of a time especially if you have proper buffs/debuffs.
Also, your above scenario just means that the GFs weren't holding aggro and the GWFs were dying. In a group like that the GF should never lose aggro and the boss should melt.
unintended consequences... edemo and many of the bosses will not be killable. with the removal of nearly 1/2 of party damage it's going to be impossible for anything less than a 3k+ full group to take down demo in time. They are also talking about changing the pally bubble... say goodbye to castle never. i've run it several times with a great group. (two +3k gwfs, 1 4k gf, 1 3k gf, and a healer and we couldn't beat the final boss. the only way i've seen or heard of it being done is with a bubble pally. cryptic, you've buffed the baddies, a nerf isn't the way to go. take your time and buff.
Admittedly it was mostly people around 3k, but my guild just did emo with only OPs and GFs. I really doubt that DPS classes are going to have that much harder of a time especially if you have proper buffs/debuffs.
Also, your above scenario just means that the GFs weren't holding aggro and the GWFs were dying. In a group like that the GF should never lose aggro and the boss should melt.
A party full of GF's would be pretty cool. I can only imagine the damage with 5 or 6 ITF's running constantly. wow!
With NC our GF's were getting one or two shoted every time.
unintended consequences... edemo and many of the bosses will not be killable. with the removal of nearly 1/2 of party damage it's going to be impossible for anything less than a 3k+ full group to take down demo in time. They are also talking about changing the pally bubble... say goodbye to castle never. i've run it several times with a great group. (two +3k gwfs, 1 4k gf, 1 3k gf, and a healer and we couldn't beat the final boss. the only way i've seen or heard of it being done is with a bubble pally. cryptic, you've buffed the baddies, a nerf isn't the way to go. take your time and buff.
Admittedly it was mostly people around 3k, but my guild just did emo with only OPs and GFs. I really doubt that DPS classes are going to have that much harder of a time especially if you have proper buffs/debuffs.
Also, your above scenario just means that the GFs weren't holding aggro and the GWFs were dying. In a group like that the GF should never lose aggro and the boss should melt.
A party full of GF's would be pretty cool. I can only imagine the damage with 5 or 6 ITF's running constantly. wow!
With NC our GF's were getting one or two shoted every time.
ITF from multiple GFs doesn't stack.
Your GFs should be using steel defense+fighter's recovery so they're immune, heal, and have time to pop ITF.
The marketing trick is, as some above me stated, that eLOL has run it's course by now, most people i guess have it and Cryptic needs new ways to force us to spend again. While this wouldn't be a huge problem, if it wasn't for the combination of low RNG drop rates of new items, low RP gain, lower AD income across the board and COA wards deleted from Trade Bar Store. So let's see the bigger picture here!
That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't think the lostmouth changes were about balance as much as no one wants to grind/buy the outrageous 30 million RP to upgrade another artifact set and watch it be useless again in 3 months. So Cryptic forced the change for a set that's been busted for 2 years, out of the blue.
Comments
1- drop damage to 50-75% (60% would be good) of base weapon damage and still disallow multiprocs
2- drop damage to 20-30% (25%) of base weapon damage and allow multiprocs
I also have a valindra's set in bank in case it gets reduced more than that since i knew a nerf was coming.
My points:
GWF: My damage is already nerfed by not being able to use determination on demand reasonably often. Fair enough this could be to do with being unable to lose temp hits due to bubble. However without that bubble in dungeons, following the determination nerf I find myself getting one or two shotted way too much with the reduction in temporary hits.
DC: Needs a complete replan, I am 100% focused on providing APs and spamming dailies with enormous recovery. With the changes, I will switch to buff/debuff. Now I find I have the wrong enchantments and no way can afford to switch them over, but much more important the wrong artifacts. So do I give up my orange/teal sigils and get NOTHING back for them because they can't be used to refine other artifacts. This needs to change if you're going to make changes as fundamental as this. I simply can't afford to refine another artifact from scratch.
OP: people who spent serious amounts of money on getting a snail to permabubble will be justifiably upset (I didn't, and am just about perma due to picking everything I can for recovery). Same issue as the cleric, I have potentially the wrong enchantments and artifacts now. I have some difficulty holding aggro atm, meaning that without the permabubble, the taunting ability/strength may need to be upped or teams will wipe.
GF: IF you can do a dungeon with a GF tank rather than a pally, you will already do it faster. My fastest runs of every T2 were all done with GF tanks already, BUT dungeons that would be messy with a 2K GF tank are easy with equivalently geared OP/AP DC.
I wanna ask about DC. Ok i understand ap gain changes but what about healing? maybe u have tried play dc or im affraid no.
before mod 6 and cap lvl 70 u rework full dc becouse finaly someone start playing this class and seen what useless was that class. so weak heal. after changes but still in lvl 60 dc became powerfull healer and very usefull in pt. After cap 70 lvl all monsters and bosses rise with power and strenght of attack like 300 maybe 400% and, heal of clerics rise 10 - 20%. dou think is proper proportion? dont check classes with full leg sets and rank 12 enchantments and full guilds boons. in game are most off pll not with 8000 def 8000 pow. and full leg sets. i think befor u put new mod, new changes u should ask real players what they wanna see, whats work properly and whats not. i have palyed in few games for 6 -7 years and this game is first one where i see in only almost 3 yeras so many changes. i feel like a bit when new menegment comming everythink is changing because they have different vision but remember its a product and ppl what get in the begin wants to keep to the and. one time u lost a lot of players already.
Ok lets back to healing of dc's. please rise strenght of healing spells. check the virtuos path how hard is keep pt alive with healing word, shield and bastion, coz of over time heal and so low healing strenght. I have check on preview faithfull path. good still heal is so low.
This is pretty much a marketing trick again and an immature way to solve the eLOL problem in with 1 shot. Kinda reminds me of one old German folk tale.
The marketing trick is, as some above me stated, that eLOL has run it's course by now, most people i guess have it and Cryptic needs new ways to force us to spend again. While this wouldn't be a huge problem, if it wasn't for the combination of low RNG drop rates of new items, low RP gain, lower AD income across the board and COA wards deleted from Trade Bar Store. So let's see the bigger picture here!
Finally it might be me, but i find the short life cycle of items depressing. You don't throw out the biedermeier furniture, just to get a new desk for the kid, i mean a sane person wouldn't, here this tempo and style is way beyond normal.
If this is pushed out this harsh way, at least give us a 100% exchange rate, when it comes to RP. It would already be a huge task to acquire the new arti sets. Paying a ton of hardly attainable RP for upgrade again is beyond the capability of many. Most of us normal, non-exploiting or super rich players can't keep up with the tempo.
Each new Mod reduces the alt friendliness in the game. I personally don't know, how i will be able to change my entire set of enchants, artifacts and arti sets on 5 of my eLOL set user toons.
I agree eLOL was over performing, but couldn't you, Devs find a sweet spot, like in the middle, why nerf it to the ground?
Isn't it a twisted logic to push out the nerf, but forget about the fact, that some classes, like CW for example are literally living on that set. Cool, let's make the CW a controller again, but show me, where? Old dungeons required control, but since Mod 6 disaster we have no need for real control, everything needs to melt.
Have you dear Devs thought about compensating/buffing these classes first and then nerfing eLOL. Sorry, but when i want to get my shoes on, first i get my socks on, not vice versa.
Additionally you Devs say content has become trivial. Sure for the small minority sitting on top, with all the pre-Mod 6 gear, double proccing companions, etc, but i invite you to an average Joe style group, where all these goodies are non-existent and just watch, it won't be 8 seconds, it will be a hard fight for up to 30 mins in some cases.
My question, have you Devs thought about it, what will those normal players do, how will they defeat a normal eToS with eLOL being nerfed, but no class buffs and no other viable sets, not to speak about the fact, how a causal player will be able to get the new stuff?
Last, but not least eLOL had a huge positive side, maybe it was boring on all classes, i agree and not logical stat wise, but at least it, it worked! Cool, let's get Valindra set for my CW and what, the dmg output is laughable.
Wouldn't it be better to first rework the other sets and then nerf eLOL a bit?
I would really appreciated the nerf of those bugged items first, they are the core problem for trivial content for the ones, who have access to it, but i guess you don't dare to "fix" them, the whales would be upset and not pay anymore, so let's nerf eLOL. The whales can adopt easily yet again, but what about us, the majority, where should we get all the AD/RP for this huge change, cause this isn't just about eLOL, it is like a domino game, one stone will make others fall, entire chars need to be outfitted nearly from scratch.
I don't wan't to paint it all too black, but i feel a small exodus coming again or more angry customers, which tbh none of them is good.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I try to be as clear as possible
I like some changes to be made, but this is TOO FAR
I am free to play person
All my characters I built throught hard work, dedication nd most importantly T1 dungeons
I do everything legally
I started with my first char HR to do dungeons
Now I have tank op healer OP AP dc BUFF dc GWF
My Main is GWF I have about 2500 TIL on her and ELOL SET
Most chars I play are my 2 dcs
And then OP
I play with all sorts of people all TILS
My problem isn't many wanting a balance
My problem is that most of this scream for balance comes from PayToWin PVP community
One of my friends on NeverWinter he has little time to play so he pays in some cash to speed it up
He told me once that now we got to a point where free to play people in PVP are getting 1 over those who spent hundreds if not thousands and they will scream for changes
So they did
And devs heard them
Now 2000 OP due to bubble is just as effective as 4000 OP
Nerf bubble and what happens?
3000+ PEOPLE WILL TELL 2000 OP ''Get lost you too low now''
THIS is not going to be a balance if it stays like this
This be an incredible UNFAIR IMBALANCE
As all hard working 2000-2500 TIL plays will be rubbished over night
We already had this become when we had Gear Score - snobbery and elitism was killing everything. No one cared for the skill only for numbers
This change will rubbish everyone below 3000 TIL
I did T2 with 2000 people if they know wHAT they doing it doable
I did 2000 ecc on my op when she was only 2000 TIL
Make the changes work only in PVP
And leave the PVE ALONE!!!
PVP community wants this so they can kill Free2Play people easily in PVP
And then IN PVE they can tell same people who want go dungeon ''you are too NUB go away 3000+ only pls'''
This is officially Free2Play game
With ZEN optional
Why are we doing a patch that will ruin most or all lower players?
Right now a team of 5 2000 1 op 1 ap dc 3 DPS can do ETOS ecc may be not EGWD
And then?
Without bubble in ecc you can't stand on Traven's fire
eTOS spitting spiders can 1 hit even 4k TIL person in some places
Only thing left for us be T1 elol mc vt and skirmishes
Where is this going?
If you doing such massive reduction - reduce mobs HP and attack in the dungeons
So reduced player stats can still make dungeons doable with good team and good skills
And if you leave it as it is most players will be locked out of most dungeons and high level PVE content permanently
This isn't a way guys
A lot of people live from doing dungeons myself included
Doing this without reducing mobs as will will lock out everyone below 3000 TIL
Unless they are super-pr0 and can manage
Did you EVER seen anything out side of PVP?
Those changes will make Paladins easyer to kill in PVP - yes
And then sme Paladins will be killed just as easy if not more easier BY PVE MOBS
For the love of God PLEASE STOP thinking JUST IN PVP TERNS
Why should they command the changes that affects EVERYONE?
Reducing Paladin's reduction of damage from 80% to 50% is too much
Divine Protector from 20 seconds to 6 second - too much
Good medium would be:
Damage reduction from 80% to 60%
Divine Protector from 20 sec to 10-12 sec
Reduce it enought to stop perma-bubble
But nit as much as to make OP in effect useless?
If OP can't aggro entire lot in the room how he can protect team?
Some people I heard been saying ''learn to dodge''
For example in Ecc a lot of mobs have ranged attack
How can you dodge a ranger that is ran by a computer?
You dash and he just retargets you again
Unless OP can aggro all of them onto him/herself
But then with only 50% damage reduction he will be dead sooner then others can kill them
After that they shoot dead everyone else
Not EGWD
And may be not ecc
But ETOS yes
And vt elol mc yes
So I made a rule of thumb, item level has to be around +800 for PuGs on epic dungeons. I may eventually get to 2.8 IL in half a year or so. Until then, no epic dungeons for me, and I already have about 70 epic dungeon keys sitting in the bags.
There is lots of other activities to turn to, so I am not complaining. If anything, maybe if for non premades the difficulty of epic dungeons could be turned down a bit, that might help. Sometimes I feel, mob power is toned down after being k.o. too fast, e.g. in Vault of the Nine, maybe something like this for epic dungeons, too.
Let's ruin PVE to hell I am pvp whale I don't care for PVE dolhins...
Let's just made a new paragon path for PVP
For example on Paladin we have Oath of Protection and Oath of Devotion
And we add Oath of Defender
On Oath of Defender Paladin would have feats for defense tenancy and such that would only work in pvp against other players
On GWF we can have Path called Headhunter for example
They are also talking about changing the pally bubble... say goodbye to castle never. i've run it several times with a great group. (two +3k gwfs, 1 4k gf, 1 3k gf, and a healer and we couldn't beat the final boss. the only way i've seen or heard of it being done is with a bubble pally.
cryptic, you've buffed the baddies, a nerf isn't the way to go. take your time and buff.
Also, your above scenario just means that the GFs weren't holding aggro and the GWFs were dying. In a group like that the GF should never lose aggro and the boss should melt.
With NC our GF's were getting one or two shoted every time.
Your GFs should be using steel defense+fighter's recovery so they're immune, heal, and have time to pop ITF.
I don't think the lostmouth changes were about balance as much as no one wants to grind/buy the outrageous 30 million RP to upgrade another artifact set and watch it be useless again in 3 months. So Cryptic forced the change for a set that's been busted for 2 years, out of the blue.