Mod edit - Let's try to avoid the extreme flaming ok? I know we have our opinions, but be nice with voicing them, please.
@zekethesinner Yes, please SHOW how much DPS the broken set does. I urge you to do so. Please do. But not on a CW, show it on the GWF who has 110.000 power and 20k-30k crit. What can SS CW's really do with Lostmauth? Storm Spell doesn't crit... Imagine THEN how much dps CWs would do with a crit-enabled Storm Spell feature. And I tell you this as someone who's a total DPS-oriented CW (for the most part). An error is an error and we finally have actual new developers who're working on the game, rather than they simply trash-can everything. And I support them for what they're doing now. I wouldn't even be in MOD9 if I didn't see the potential. And let's not cry here that Storm Spell doesn't crit, because the issue is not that Lostmauth' set getting nerfed. CW's got nerfed before LM was introduced, thus making both MoF and SS equally beneficial, although I'd say that MoF is a bit more beneficial due to the better overall party [de]buffs. And to hell with paingiver. Buffs are the way to win.
@Topic Last time I've checked, the radiant damage boon that most DCs used is a goner with the ICD placed on it. Besides, current meta isn't a DPS GF or a DPS DC. Why should I, as a CW, be inclined to take a broken set that does ABSOLUTELY 0 in terms of stats that I need as a CW, in order to do something valuable? That means that I'm forced into building a character that I do not want. That ruins my game and the D&D concept behind it, regardless of how superficial it actually is, some of us actually care. It's a perfect chance to make a notice how broken CWs are in terms of CC and I welcome any change that will move away from perma bubble OP + Buff DC as a standard party that takes you for a hand and walks you within the corridors of CN whilst the GWF simply holds left-click, occasionally pressing tab + ultimate death-button to win.
And let's not lie around here, we all knew that Lostmouth' set is broken which is why we all bought it. So don't go all "wai" bullcrap.
I didn't need no Lostmauth' bullcrap set in the mods 1-6. Frankly, I have it for less than 2 weeks and I never even upgraded it because the thing is too good to be left like that, specifically because it makes GWF's practical gods in any dungeon and/or on dragons.
However, until it's done I don't believe any of it. Just sharing my opinion. >:)
Post edited by kreatyve on
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Later this afternoon, the Cryptic team will be pushing an update to our test server that will include several changes to class powers and the Lostmauth Artifact set. We’ll have a full forum post up in our test server forums that will detail fully the changes that are coming to several class powers and the gear set.
Remember, this is only the FIRST set of changes. We need to do balancing little by little instead of in one fell swoop.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
I never said anything about my GF's performance. I don't know why you're puking HAMSTER out of your mouth.
You called GF a buff-bot and asked for it's tanking ability to be improved. GF can tank all the content in the game ezpz while being a buff-bot.
If you can't understand what you were implying when you wrote that sentence don't bother posting.
If you ever looked beyond yourself, you'd notice plenty of bad GFs who can't even keep their guard up without it dying out on them and causing them to immediately die.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
Yes. CW is a support class now... w/o any compensation it will have less dmg then a GF or a dps DC.
Also SW will be closer to GWF somewhat.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
@zekethesinner Yes, please SHOW how much DPS the broken set does. I urge you to do so. Please do. But not on a CW, show it on the GWF who has 110.000 power and 20k-30k crit.
And why cant i do that on 110k power, 20-30k crit cw? U think SS is only source of dmg? R u sure u know ur class at all?
HINT: with all bunch of debuff around, test it with IT, gwf will be able to swing once at best.
And u r right to an extend, u r forced to take eLoL set to be a viable and competitive dps. Problem is its putting ur on equal with gwf using elol too, and under SW. So if they will boot cw to compensate its dmg loss, i want my gwf to be boosted too.
And all of u take away u filthy hands from ITF, i dont want my gf to end up as punchbag with nothing in return.
(Sin)cerely Kain
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
i laughed with this my wizard was always doing more damage than dc-gf when had valindra set and i am master of flame renegade( that means i am not so high damage dealer like the dps tree). i lost 200k on kits and rp to change to lostmauth and lasted 1 month that change its ok. next double rp i will go back to valindra since i kept a belt-amulet for that case.
keep laughing mamal, it only shows how little you understand this game.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
DPS spec'd GF or DC will definitely outdps a CW without the lolset. CW's viability as DPS is entirely dependent on the scope of the nerf to the lolset. Anyone posting otherwise has no idea where the damage their class deals comes from.
Power changes like Into the Fray I hope..!? One power granting up to 80% damage to the entire party....
Way too many buffs in the game.
And that buff is what keeps gfs as viable characters to play in PVE. So nice thinking nerf the only thing keeping those players around. You take away GF buffs and we will replace them with GWF just like module 1 all over again
The GF is supposed to be a tank not a buff bot. Nor is the OP tank supposed to be an immortality spellcaster.
Improve the GF's ability to tank.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
how gf can deal damage without bondings and companions are you kidding me ? dc can do it yes. if he go critical he will not have recovery to have faster into the fray and the other encounters. with att wills deal that more damage than cw ? i dont get it . MONSTERS can go down before even the gf arrive be real and you dont need lol set to do this.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
i laughed with this my wizard was always doing more damage than dc-gf when had valindra set and i am master of flame renegade( that means i am not so high damage dealer like the dps tree). i lost 200k on kits and rp to change to lostmauth and lasted 1 month that change its ok. next double rp i will go back to valindra since i kept a belt-amulet for that case.
keep laughing mamal, it only shows how little you understand this game.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
DPS spec'd GF or DC will definitely outdps a CW without the lolset. CW's viability as DPS is entirely dependent on the scope of the nerf to the lolset. Anyone posting otherwise has no idea where the damage their class deals comes from.
Power changes like Into the Fray I hope..!? One power granting up to 80% damage to the entire party....
Way too many buffs in the game.
And that buff is what keeps gfs as viable characters to play in PVE. So nice thinking nerf the only thing keeping those players around. You take away GF buffs and we will replace them with GWF just like module 1 all over again
The GF is supposed to be a tank not a buff bot. Nor is the OP tank supposed to be an immortality spellcaster.
Improve the GF's ability to tank.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
how gf can deal damage without bondings and companions are you kidding me ? dc can do it yes. if he go critical he will not have recovery to have faster into the fray and the other encounters. with att wills deal that more damage than cw ? i dont get it . MONSTERS can go down before even the gf arrive be real and you dont need lol set to do this.
Power changes like Into the Fray I hope..!? One power granting up to 80% damage to the entire party....
Way too many buffs in the game.
And that buff is what keeps gfs as viable characters to play in PVE. So nice thinking nerf the only thing keeping those players around. You take away GF buffs and we will replace them with GWF just like module 1 all over again
The GF is supposed to be a tank not a buff bot. Nor is the OP tank supposed to be an immortality spellcaster.
Improve the GF's ability to tank.
Noone needs a tank, the game is not designed around having real tanks its designed around damage mitigation. You can sit on your soap box and chant about roles but the game does not fit your stereotypes. GFs can buff, DCs don't have to heal, CWs can't control anything in end game. etc
and that's exactly it, its 4/1 (where these people are) and they post a notice about non-specific changes on a hot topic that sounds like a ton of work to implement. Don't hold your breath, even a change like nerfing lostmauth has huge implications to how the game is played. A 30% reduction in party dps means more challenges with survive-ability, to balance an initiative like this far exceeds the skill of anyone we've witnessed at cryptic. The odds of a big change coming as the result of a lvl increase is far more likely and easier to manage. At this point I'm not even sure if there are any game developers assigned to this game (there may be programmers but that's not the same thing as a game developer). The recent additions of new weapon and armor enchants and rings (now 5 months old) that break pvp indicate there is no real vision/understanding of game mechanics and theory.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
We don't really see much from that video on the GF's part, the numbers are certainly not impressive...
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
i laughed with this my wizard was always doing more damage than dc-gf when had valindra set and i am master of flame renegade( that means i am not so high damage dealer like the dps tree). i lost 200k on kits and rp to change to lostmauth and lasted 1 month that change its ok. next double rp i will go back to valindra since i kept a belt-amulet for that case.
keep laughing mamal, it only shows how little you understand this game.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
DPS spec'd GF or DC will definitely outdps a CW without the lolset. CW's viability as DPS is entirely dependent on the scope of the nerf to the lolset. Anyone posting otherwise has no idea where the damage their class deals comes from.
Power changes like Into the Fray I hope..!? One power granting up to 80% damage to the entire party....
Way too many buffs in the game.
And that buff is what keeps gfs as viable characters to play in PVE. So nice thinking nerf the only thing keeping those players around. You take away GF buffs and we will replace them with GWF just like module 1 all over again
The GF is supposed to be a tank not a buff bot. Nor is the OP tank supposed to be an immortality spellcaster.
Improve the GF's ability to tank.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
how gf can deal damage without bondings and companions are you kidding me ? dc can do it yes. if he go critical he will not have recovery to have faster into the fray and the other encounters. with att wills deal that more damage than cw ? i dont get it . MONSTERS can go down before even the gf arrive be real and you dont need lol set to do this.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
i laughed with this my wizard was always doing more damage than dc-gf when had valindra set and i am master of flame renegade( that means i am not so high damage dealer like the dps tree). i lost 200k on kits and rp to change to lostmauth and lasted 1 month that change its ok. next double rp i will go back to valindra since i kept a belt-amulet for that case.
keep laughing mamal, it only shows how little you understand this game.
Guess I will be leveling a SW then, because without the lolset, my CW just became a pure support class with a dps spec that does less damage than GF or DC.
My CW has never used the LM set, because I refuse to use a belt with stats that are useless to my class. She is never top dps (if in a competitive group), but she has never scored below any (tanking) GF or DC.
DPS spec'd GF or DC will definitely outdps a CW without the lolset. CW's viability as DPS is entirely dependent on the scope of the nerf to the lolset. Anyone posting otherwise has no idea where the damage their class deals comes from.
Power changes like Into the Fray I hope..!? One power granting up to 80% damage to the entire party....
Way too many buffs in the game.
And that buff is what keeps gfs as viable characters to play in PVE. So nice thinking nerf the only thing keeping those players around. You take away GF buffs and we will replace them with GWF just like module 1 all over again
The GF is supposed to be a tank not a buff bot. Nor is the OP tank supposed to be an immortality spellcaster.
Improve the GF's ability to tank.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
how gf can deal damage without bondings and companions are you kidding me ? dc can do it yes. if he go critical he will not have recovery to have faster into the fray and the other encounters. with att wills deal that more damage than cw ? i dont get it . MONSTERS can go down before even the gf arrive be real and you dont need lol set to do this.
... Are we going to have to redo EE on ALL our toons now for some campaign?
I wouldn't mind doing a new campaign. I would give me more to do. I have 9 toons and 7 of them have nearly finished everything.
I am *****so***** glad I didn't jump on the Lostmauth bandwagon and stuck with Lathander and Seldarine.
How OP is Lostmauth? A low-to-mid 2k GWF can do double the damage of a 3.9 SW with 30k power. That's plain nuts.
QUESTION: Will you be fixing the bug in Fiery Pit where enemies are at Heroic Encounter difficulty seemingly at random (not only in areas where there isn't an active HE, but also in areas where there is never one). This is a big contributor to the current difficulty of the EE leveling process for new players. As guildmaster, I currently have to be ready to shepherd new players through that zone.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
People calling cw's crying babies don't realize that the fact that one class depends entirely on a broken set to be viable in terms of dps, is as much or even more serious than the broken set itself. I hope devs realize they are stepping on some real thin ice here.
Eryca - Gutbusters Brigade
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
People calling cw's crying babies don't realize that the fact that one class depends entirely on a broken set to be viable in terms of dps, is as much or even more serious than the broken set itself. I hope devs realize they are stepping on some real thin ice here.
While the complaint about CWs being underpowered may be legit, the fact that a specific set bonus can bring them from broken to competitive is only another element of evidence that the set itself is overpowered. If this nerf comes with general buffs to the CW's dps (so that it may use other sets and still be competitive), I see no problem with it.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Scream UNFAIR UNFAIR UNFAIR To all those 4k GWFs WHO SPENT MAJOR Money to get all their stuff maxed out now you Either Nerf GWFs or You Nerf the Set, I say you nerf GWFs indom Battle strike get that done and over with, because the Lostmotuh set works fine for other classes, so its kind of mistake to outright point fingers at lol set and nerf it, because that makes no sense, I ger like a 15k crit from it if I do 100k crit, so it seems to be working as intended small percentage of a large crit
ibs ? who needs ibs they deal damage without encounters with sure strike.
You've got a poorly built GF if you can't do both.
I never said anything about my GF's performance. I don't know why you're puking HAMSTER out of your mouth.
You called GF a buff-bot and asked for it's tanking ability to be improved. GF can tank all the content in the game ezpz while being a buff-bot.
If you can't understand what you were implying when you wrote that sentence don't bother posting.
If you ever looked beyond yourself, you'd notice plenty of bad GFs who can't even keep their guard up without it dying out on them and causing them to immediately die.
Which brings this argument full circle. If you can't tank properly as a GF your GF is built poorly. This same argument applies to pretty much every class anyways since they all have HAMSTER builds that will make them bad at their intended roles and even worse at lower ilvls.
and that's exactly it, its 4/1 (where these people are) and they post a notice about non-specific changes on a hot topic that sounds like a ton of work to implement. Don't hold your breath, even a change like nerfing lostmauth has huge implications to how the game is played. A 30% reduction in party dps means more challenges with survive-ability, to balance an initiative like this far exceeds the skill of anyone we've witnessed at cryptic. The odds of a big change coming as the result of a lvl increase is far more likely and easier to manage. At this point I'm not even sure if there are any game developers assigned to this game (there may be programmers but that's not the same thing as a game developer). The recent additions of new weapon and armor enchants and rings (now 5 months old) that break pvp indicate there is no real vision/understanding of game mechanics and theory.
I don't understand why people keeping bring up the date. They specifically mentioned in the post that it's not an April Fools joke.
I completely agree about Cryptics inability to properly handle such a change though. Anyone that thinks this isn't going to be like the leadership nerf is insane.
@zekethesinner Yes, please SHOW how much DPS the broken set does. I urge you to do so. Please do. But not on a CW, show it on the GWF who has 110.000 power and 20k-30k crit.
And why cant i do that on 110k power, 20-30k crit cw? U think SS is only source of dmg? R u sure u know ur class at all?
HINT: with all bunch of debuff around, test it with IT, gwf will be able to swing once at best.
And u r right to an extend, u r forced to take eLoL set to be a viable and competitive dps. Problem is its putting ur on equal with gwf using elol too, and under SW. So if they will boot cw to compensate its dmg loss, i want my gwf to be boosted too.
And all of u take away u filthy hands from ITF, i dont want my gf to end up as punchbag with nothing in return.
(Sin)cerely Kain
You're not seeing the big picture. Now when there's no LM set as BiS for pretty much everything that walks in the NWN online, more attention will be cast on CWs and their role in the team. Maybe a Life-Steal overhaul, making temp SWs yet again viable. Creating bulkier Thaums. Creating your precious WIS builds for PvP and whatnot. Making more use of the CW spells. If that doesn't excite you, then nothing will.
I, for one, WELCOME the actual fix of the issue, not a temporary patch that was LM set, in all honesty. Because this will lead to more questions and more fixes, as previously stated by the staff.
"Problem is its putting ur on equal with gwf using elol" - Unless the CW's VERY specific MoF build, CW CAN'T outdps GWF in single target damage at all, and especially not in continuity. The thing is, you have to invest at least 100% more in the CW, doing crazy rotations and counting the seconds, whilst GWF would only hold left click and casually press [tab]QWERTY whilst drinking the coffee and/or smoking a cigarette. No class in this game had that much power, maybe only TR in some previous mods and maybe DC with Burning Guidance boon before it was fixed.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Comments
If you can't understand what you were implying when you wrote that sentence don't bother posting.
@zekethesinner
Yes, please SHOW how much DPS the broken set does. I urge you to do so. Please do. But not on a CW, show it on the GWF who has 110.000 power and 20k-30k crit.
What can SS CW's really do with Lostmauth? Storm Spell doesn't crit... Imagine THEN how much dps CWs would do with a crit-enabled Storm Spell feature.
And I tell you this as someone who's a total DPS-oriented CW (for the most part). An error is an error and we finally have actual new developers who're working on the game, rather than they simply trash-can everything. And I support them for what they're doing now. I wouldn't even be in MOD9 if I didn't see the potential. And let's not cry here that Storm Spell doesn't crit, because the issue is not that Lostmauth' set getting nerfed. CW's got nerfed before LM was introduced, thus making both MoF and SS equally beneficial, although I'd say that MoF is a bit more beneficial due to the better overall party [de]buffs. And to hell with paingiver. Buffs are the way to win.
@Topic
Last time I've checked, the radiant damage boon that most DCs used is a goner with the ICD placed on it. Besides, current meta isn't a DPS GF or a DPS DC.
Why should I, as a CW, be inclined to take a broken set that does ABSOLUTELY 0 in terms of stats that I need as a CW, in order to do something valuable? That means that I'm forced into building a character that I do not want. That ruins my game and the D&D concept behind it, regardless of how superficial it actually is, some of us actually care. It's a perfect chance to make a notice how broken CWs are in terms of CC and I welcome any change that will move away from perma bubble OP + Buff DC as a standard party that takes you for a hand and walks you within the corridors of CN whilst the GWF simply holds left-click, occasionally pressing tab + ultimate death-button to win.
And let's not lie around here, we all knew that Lostmouth' set is broken which is why we all bought it. So don't go all "wai" bullcrap.
I didn't need no Lostmauth' bullcrap set in the mods 1-6. Frankly, I have it for less than 2 weeks and I never even upgraded it because the thing is too good to be left like that, specifically because it makes GWF's practical gods in any dungeon and/or on dragons.
However, until it's done I don't believe any of it. Just sharing my opinion. >:)
Thank you.
And i'm somehow getting the feeling, that this is connected with this thread... another DDoS attack?
w/o any compensation it will have less dmg then a GF or a dps DC.
Also SW will be closer to GWF somewhat.
HINT: with all bunch of debuff around, test it with IT, gwf will be able to swing once at best.
And u r right to an extend, u r forced to take eLoL set to be a viable and competitive dps. Problem is its putting ur on equal with gwf using elol too, and under SW. So if they will boot cw to compensate its dmg loss, i want my gwf to be boosted too.
And all of u take away u filthy hands from ITF, i dont want my gf to end up as punchbag with nothing in return.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Please count the number of bonding procs freya has in this video, ill give you a hint, its 0, he uses an augment.
and that's exactly it, its 4/1 (where these people are) and they post a notice about non-specific changes on a hot topic that sounds like a ton of work to implement. Don't hold your breath, even a change like nerfing lostmauth has huge implications to how the game is played. A 30% reduction in party dps means more challenges with survive-ability, to balance an initiative like this far exceeds the skill of anyone we've witnessed at cryptic. The odds of a big change coming as the result of a lvl increase is far more likely and easier to manage. At this point I'm not even sure if there are any game developers assigned to this game (there may be programmers but that's not the same thing as a game developer). The recent additions of new weapon and armor enchants and rings (now 5 months old) that break pvp indicate there is no real vision/understanding of game mechanics and theory.
I am *****so***** glad I didn't jump on the Lostmauth bandwagon and stuck with Lathander and Seldarine.
How OP is Lostmauth? A low-to-mid 2k GWF can do double the damage of a 3.9 SW with 30k power. That's plain nuts.
QUESTION: Will you be fixing the bug in Fiery Pit where enemies are at Heroic Encounter difficulty seemingly at random (not only in areas where there isn't an active HE, but also in areas where there is never one). This is a big contributor to the current difficulty of the EE leveling process for new players. As guildmaster, I currently have to be ready to shepherd new players through that zone.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
If this nerf comes with general buffs to the CW's dps (so that it may use other sets and still be competitive), I see no problem with it.
I don't understand why people keeping bring up the date. They specifically mentioned in the post that it's not an April Fools joke.
I completely agree about Cryptics inability to properly handle such a change though. Anyone that thinks this isn't going to be like the leadership nerf is insane.
If that doesn't excite you, then nothing will.
I, for one, WELCOME the actual fix of the issue, not a temporary patch that was LM set, in all honesty. Because this will lead to more questions and more fixes, as previously stated by the staff.
"Problem is its putting ur on equal with gwf using elol" - Unless the CW's VERY specific MoF build, CW CAN'T outdps GWF in single target damage at all, and especially not in continuity.
The thing is, you have to invest at least 100% more in the CW, doing crazy rotations and counting the seconds, whilst GWF would only hold left click and casually press [tab]QWERTY whilst drinking the coffee and/or smoking a cigarette.
No class in this game had that much power, maybe only TR in some previous mods and maybe DC with Burning Guidance boon before it was fixed.