I suggest a cooldown to stance-switching. It is broken and overpowered for a class to have 6 encounters with virtually no cooldown. With perma-rooting on top of that, an HR has no room to complain about anyone. Also, I notice HR is not on your list.
6 encounters, when either the melee or ranged half of each is either 1) a utility doing no damage 2) a utility doing almost no damage or 3) utterly useless in pvp. So, nice try but not even close to the mark. And if you're getting perma-rooted, you're obviously not wearing tenacity gear at all. HR roots last for about 1/8 second (at most) against anyone wearing pvp gear. Again, nice try but not even close. HR has been nerfed to the bottom of the pecking order for months now, so of course it isn't on my list. Also see useless dodge, dodges that don't avoid control effects, stealth daily that doesn't work in combat, can be targeted through for about a second after activation and is 1/4 taken up by its animation, encounter powers that do less damage than several classes' at-wills, etc. Oh, and hard cooldowns on dailies (imagine the whining if TRs couldn't abuse dailies, and theirs actually do damage).
When I see GWFs in general acknowledge that perma-unstoppable should be impossible, that they should have to have an even contest with equally geared and skilled players of any class and that button-mashing until you count to 20 is not skill, I may change my opinion.
You didn't even read my post, or, as usual, you failed even understanding what you're talking about. I posted the same things many times cause guys like you keep failing at understanding how to balance classes. I clearly wrote that perma-unstoppable is an issue only on a fully buffed destroyer, which is the truth. One path, one capstone. You want a class-wide nerf to the class mechanic because destroyer capstone allows destroyers to go unstoppable too often. Who is the one ranting? You asked for a nerf that only a newbie would ask. I explained you how the class works, with facts, and you replied with nothing but a cheap troll post.
I also explained you that GWF is designed as a low-efficiency class that must always attack. I explained you the difference between auto-aim and full dodges that other classes have, and low-efficiency encounters + no dodge of a GWF. And again, you ignored it all.
Pretty much, like any other bad player, you blah blah blah with no knowledge, and just ignore when other players EXPLAIN you why and where you are wrong.
What i proposed is nerfs to damage which will also reduce GWF temp HP from unstoppable (which scales with damage buffs) and lifesteal self-healing. But at the same time, you must bring the class on-par with the others in terms of efficiency and mechanics. You want GWFs to play with skill, but you don't want them to have a proper dodge to alternate offense and defense like other classes do. You want GWFs to "stop just swinging their weapon around", but you don't want to give them efficient encounters like other classes have. Same as module 4 overnerf. We told people that only nerfing would ruin the class. They didn't listen, just like you. Then, when they realized that mod 4 GWF was laughable, they kept saying "oh well, it's okay cause now we can have our revenge". Cause you just want to keep ranting about GWFs and just see them nerfed, not balanced.
6 encounters, when either the melee or ranged half of each is either 1) a utility doing no damage 2) a utility doing almost no damage or 3) utterly useless in pvp. So, nice try but not even close to the mark. And if you're getting perma-rooted, you're obviously not wearing tenacity gear at all. HR roots last for about 1/8 second (at most) against anyone wearing pvp gear. Again, nice try but not even close. HR has been nerfed to the bottom of the pecking order for months now, so of course it isn't on my list. Also see useless dodge, dodges that don't avoid control effects, stealth daily that doesn't work in combat, can be targeted through for about a second after activation and is 1/4 taken up by its animation, encounter powers that do less damage than several classes' at-wills, etc. Oh, and hard cooldowns on dailies (imagine the whining if TRs couldn't abuse dailies, and theirs actually do damage).
Let's try this. You grab a 2.5k GWF. I grab my 2.5k incomplete HR. And we fight and see what happens. No wheel since i don't have it. Since GWF is such easy mode and too strong, it should be pretty easy for you to kill my HR.
If you unslot a BIS GWF, just leaving t fey+t neg, full lionemane, full boons, 4k axebeak on top is about 2,6kGS. Really depends imo.
I know. I would still prove my point. GWF class is extremely inefficient. Once you know its mechanics, you can toy them around easily. As stated many times, they jump ahead once you equip them with specific combo of gear. My HR has burning gear, mulhorand weapon set, rank 7's, some boons, blue artifacts with no wheel. Only high level stuff is T.Fey and Pure Shadowclad from my main. Ring of sieging +4 and ring of vision +4 (only double slot rings i got). 2.5k iLvL total. I was just proposing him to test the classes with similar gear and see what happens. 2.5k GWF vs 2.5k HR. So simple. Really.
I talk about mechanics and specific facts related to GWFs. No answer. I propose to test on equally geared toons. No answer.
Conclusion: some players just love to write troll posts with no facts and no will to test. For example, when someone says "put a 15s hard cooldown on unstoppable" and then ignores every fact or practical testing that is proposed to him.
I would suggest to just stay away. There is no fun left doing PVP these days, and noone needs to go for the AD since that's one HE in few minutes in WoD. Maybe cryptic will take care some day, maybe not and they delete PVP. There is no argument to go on supporting PVP in this game and in case you feel stomped all day....leave it.
i) The invisibility for everyone in pvp have no sence. For example, what kind of match you can play if the 10 people of domination are invisible? that would be a ridiculous match where noone can even fight.
ii) The players complain about the geared people, -what it's true and should be fixed on the queue system, queue for people under 3k, people between 3k-4k, and people above 4k-, but what about if the geared people starts using ambush, drains and all those stuffs, there will be even more abussivenes (i know some geared people is using all those stuffs, but many people aren't).
iii) As sophi said, the problematic items are not even doing what they should, they are simply bugged and they need to be fixed, how is even posible you people take too long to fix bugged items.
Well good bye, ReddyGOO here.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Combat and Powers Demon Lords' Immortality set bonus
This set bonus now properly increases the player's damage if the player's hit points are below the target's. This set bonus no longer increases the damage of certain powers by immense amounts.
Glad to see Orcus set gets fixed within days! Honestly I am pretty impressed with their bug-fixing speed lately, I hope they can keep this up
This set bonus now properly increases the player's damage if the player's hit points are below the target's.
This set bonus no longer increases the damage of certain powers by immense amounts.
Glad to see Orcus set gets fixed within days! Honestly I am pretty impressed with their bug-fixing speed lately, I hope they can keep this up
The problem is, they have a really good speed when they fix bugged items that can be considerer or used as an exploit (orcus bonuss set). But with items that not represent problems for them (for example shadowclad) and they can actually earn money with them, they don't have same speed.
But with items that not represent problems for them (for example shadowclad) and they can actually earn money with them, they don't have same speed.
Yepp, exactly the same thoughts here. Just look at coal wards price now . My thoughts is that they fix Orcus ONLY to prevent fast-grind in PVE. The same was done in mod6 with lostmauth set.
ABSOLUTE
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
I had to remove a whole lot of flaming from this thread. I probably missed some. Sorry I had to butcher it so badly, but ya'll need to chill with the personal attacks, please and thank you.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
GWF gets a nerf with the LM nerf. HR Trappers have awesome control and awesome DPS. Trapper is the CC tree and should be doing much less damage. It would be like Oppressor CW being better at DPS than Thaum.
You do realize that trapper is the damage path while melee does significant lower damage and archer is not far from unplayable, just in case you missed the obvious..........
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
looks like there is significantly higher devs activity on bug fixing last week, looks like reworking year is really happening. Even mod axe is ramparting. Now is April, we only need to wait till December if there is any plan for pvp
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I am one of the many tr's that does not even slot shocking execution for pvp.
I would rather use defensive daily powers over a one shot kill power. (Even though my shocking execution is not 100% one shot kill and many people can simple avoid it by sound alone, since the casting time is no where near instant)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
You do realize that trapper is the damage path while melee does significant lower damage and archer is not far from unplayable, just in case you missed the obvious..........
Every class has one or both the non-META paths in a crappy state, or unplayable. For example, GWF destroyer can survive more than a Sentinel due to higher LS from much higher damage, and higher temp HPs that scale with damage buffs.
Trapper can both deal more damage and dish out more CC. Too much CC to be honest. What should be done is decreasing CC and increase damage a bit, then buff powers range and ranged damage on archery+ self heal, and melee damage and tankiness/ deflect chance/ severity on combat. This way you'd have a CC path working, a DPS ranged path with self healing ability, and a combat path with DPS melee and more tankiness through deflect.
HRs can't keep relying on permarooting, same as GWFs can't keep relying on Destroyer buffed damage, and TRs can't keep relying on absurd SE oneshot "win-button" builds.
And so on.
What the devs must do is to tone down what is overperforming (trapper CC, TR Shocking, GWF damage, GF burst exc...) and then BUFF what is underperforming.
This is what is called balance. But most players just want their class buffed and other classes just heavily nerfed randomly, based on "how they feel" when they face some BiS player from that class.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited April 2016
they promise us new NCL event after they can made balancing changes a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago. First batch of balancing is already at preview, the other is probably almost finished or almost finished in terms of theorycrafting too. So they can start talking to us about pvp. Where we hear about something? @terramak@strumslinger
The major problems and broken things in domination pvp right now (mod 7, 8, and 9) are:
1) AMBUSH RING (Permastealth): Does not match the tooltip (Not WAI) + Overpowered = Broken. 2) DRAINS (Overloads, Stamina/AP depletion): Does not match the tooltip (Not WAI) + Overpowered = Broken. 3) TRANS SHADOWCLAD (near permastealth): Does not match the tooltip (Not WAI) + Overpowered = Broken. 4) PALADINS (near immortality in pvp): The devs said the class is far more immortal than intended + Overpowered = Broken.
The ambush gives full stealth not partial stealth. Compare to the tooltip description and mechanic of rogue stealth which is "full" stealth. Ambush ring stealth behaves almost identically. Drains are were intended to slowly drain small portions or AP/stamina not completely wipe full bars in a second or two. Many rightly view drains as overpowered dirty, cheap, and unfair because without wards access (many lower tier players) they really are that bad. The new trans shadowclad enchant is supposed to proc stealth once every 30 seconds but it was released really broken with no stealth cooldown or stack reset. Everyone knows Paladins "permabubble" and other aspects are broken as a class and a rework is on the way. These things and others that have been fixed or removed (Cowardice "permarepel" ring 2months broken) have made the last 3 mods of pvp in a bit of a sad state with chronic unabalance and brokenness in almost every match.
So that's the short summary. Some players use these things and do not care; they just want to rip other players any way they can cheating or not and care nothing for a truly good game. In fact, the conditions of pvp the last 3 mods are selecting for these players and slowly driving away the honorable (a disaster for NW pvp, really) players who want a true 'good game'. In talking with these players, their list of justifications why they abuse such things is like a repeating record.
The three MOST popular justifactions for broken stuff are:
(A) Citing other unbalanced things (like 5 active mount bonuses) as being "just as broken" (B) My class is underpowered and needs it to compete, so its fair (C) I dont care, they can all die ( or something like that).
To respond to these: (A) Citing other "broken" things (fill in blank): Players will say things like "Well having 5 active mount bonuses is even more broken than permastealth shadowclad enchant". Wrong. These are often examples of things players see as maybe unbalanced but they do as least work as intended. It is another justification. There is a real concrete difference. So "broken" really means its both not working as intended (bugged) AND overpowered. Not Working as Intended - Item/power does not behave according to the tooltip Overpowered - Item/power has a significant impact on the game beyond, more than most all others "Broken" - An item/power/build/etc both is not WAI and is overpowered
(B) BS. Your class is underpowered is an excuse. I went over 800 kills 0 death on the decidedly "weakest" scourge warlock class and did this -without drains -without permastealth ring -without broken Transshadowclad -without a pocket cleric or paladin, almost entirely solo queue.. Part for challenge and to prove a point. But I was playing against players in almost every match who where using some or all of those broken things. And this was not by being a ***** and only farming pugs and camping for hard matches. I was trying to win and going into risky situations, close to death many times and camped for maybe only 15 of over 120 matches when it was clearly not winnable or there were some of a few known personal trolls on the opposing team. I finished the 'exercise' with a reasonable solo queue record 85 Wins - 41 losses. So 5 mods of building testing and mastering a class and playing legit performed better overall than every players knowingly abusing all things broken. In short, L2P is real. And its the same story with guild vs guild premade. My guild has forbidden the use of drains and ambush rings and we still almost always beat guilds who use them without much problem.
(C) I don't care, F them all. Welp. This could have been a great game. But sadly this is the kind of person and attitude that is emerging more and more in neverwinter pvp and part of the reason is that more and more honorable and quality players have gotten fed up with all of the shenanigans and broken stuff and have slowly gone away to other games.
If the devs fix these things in PvP and restore some healthy normalcy and balance, then great. Maybe PvP will revive and NCL will come back too. The combat platform itself is superb. If not, then pvp will probably become even more of a a desolate wasteland sideshow and die off. Abusing broken things, things that are definitely not WAI, does not not appear on the leaderboard and will not usually ever get anyone banned, but its becoming a very small community and other players will sure recognize you by name and put a mental *asterisk next to you as an exploiter or abuser of broken stuff and a player/gamer with little to no honor. Legit players will often go out of their way to target and kill you, you draw aggro and distaste. And player abusing this stuff also represents the guild on their tag as a guild that abuses that stuff. If you want respect and want pvp to be fun again, put down the broken stuff and learn to play. Thanks.
Comments
I posted the same things many times cause guys like you keep failing at understanding how to balance classes.
I clearly wrote that perma-unstoppable is an issue only on a fully buffed destroyer, which is the truth. One path, one capstone. You want a class-wide nerf to the class mechanic because destroyer capstone allows destroyers to go unstoppable too often. Who is the one ranting? You asked for a nerf that only a newbie would ask. I explained you how the class works, with facts, and you replied with nothing but a cheap troll post.
I also explained you that GWF is designed as a low-efficiency class that must always attack. I explained you the difference between auto-aim and full dodges that other classes have, and low-efficiency encounters + no dodge of a GWF. And again, you ignored it all.
Pretty much, like any other bad player, you blah blah blah with no knowledge, and just ignore when other players EXPLAIN you why and where you are wrong.
What i proposed is nerfs to damage which will also reduce GWF temp HP from unstoppable (which scales with damage buffs) and lifesteal self-healing. But at the same time, you must bring the class on-par with the others in terms of efficiency and mechanics. You want GWFs to play with skill, but you don't want them to have a proper dodge to alternate offense and defense like other classes do. You want GWFs to "stop just swinging their weapon around", but you don't want to give them efficient encounters like other classes have. Same as module 4 overnerf. We told people that only nerfing would ruin the class. They didn't listen, just like you. Then, when they realized that mod 4 GWF was laughable, they kept saying "oh well, it's okay cause now we can have our revenge".
Cause you just want to keep ranting about GWFs and just see them nerfed, not balanced.
Try again.
No wheel since i don't have it. Since GWF is such easy mode and too strong, it should be pretty easy for you to kill my HR.
Really depends imo.
I was just proposing him to test the classes with similar gear and see what happens. 2.5k GWF vs 2.5k HR. So simple. Really.
I talk about mechanics and specific facts related to GWFs. No answer.
I propose to test on equally geared toons. No answer.
Conclusion: some players just love to write troll posts with no facts and no will to test. For example, when someone says "put a 15s hard cooldown on unstoppable" and then ignores every fact or practical testing that is proposed to him.
There is no fun left doing PVP these days, and noone needs to go for the AD since that's one HE in few minutes in WoD.
Maybe cryptic will take care some day, maybe not and they delete PVP.
There is no argument to go on supporting PVP in this game and in case you feel stomped all day....leave it.
There are somethings people have to considerer:
i) The invisibility for everyone in pvp have no sence. For example, what kind of match you can play if the 10 people of domination are invisible? that would be a ridiculous match where noone can even fight.
ii) The players complain about the geared people, -what it's true and should be fixed on the queue system, queue for people under 3k, people between 3k-4k, and people above 4k-, but what about if the geared people starts using ambush, drains and all those stuffs, there will be even more abussivenes (i know some geared people is using all those stuffs, but many people aren't).
iii) As sophi said, the problematic items are not even doing what they should, they are simply bugged and they need to be fixed, how is even posible you people take too long to fix bugged items.
Well good bye, ReddyGOO here.
Demon Lords' Immortality set bonus
This set bonus now properly increases the player's damage if the player's hit points are below the target's.
This set bonus no longer increases the damage of certain powers by immense amounts.
Glad to see Orcus set gets fixed within days! Honestly I am pretty impressed with their bug-fixing speed lately, I hope they can keep this up
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
My thoughts is that they fix Orcus ONLY to prevent fast-grind in PVE. The same was done in mod6 with lostmauth set.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I would rather use defensive daily powers over a one shot kill power. (Even though my shocking execution is not 100% one shot kill and many people can simple avoid it by sound alone, since the casting time is no where near instant)
Trapper can both deal more damage and dish out more CC. Too much CC to be honest. What should be done is decreasing CC and increase damage a bit, then buff powers range and ranged damage on archery+ self heal, and melee damage and tankiness/ deflect chance/ severity on combat.
This way you'd have a CC path working, a DPS ranged path with self healing ability, and a combat path with DPS melee and more tankiness through deflect.
HRs can't keep relying on permarooting, same as GWFs can't keep relying on Destroyer buffed damage, and TRs can't keep relying on absurd SE oneshot "win-button" builds.
And so on.
What the devs must do is to tone down what is overperforming (trapper CC, TR Shocking, GWF damage, GF burst exc...) and then BUFF what is underperforming.
This is what is called balance. But most players just want their class buffed and other classes just heavily nerfed randomly, based on "how they feel" when they face some BiS player from that class.