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Guardian fighter. Improve as a tank and balance as a DD.
dolrey
Member Posts: 741 Arc User
Hello everyone 
And I am sorry for my english This is again my feedback about the guardian-fighter's tanking
Few minutes earlier I was watching a video about gameplay for one of the tanky classes in one new mmorpg with active battle system.
That tanky class had a shield alike guardian-fighter's shield from 1-2 modules. It gives immunity to incoming damage and CC effects like old guardian-fighter's shield but it doesn't depends from incoming damage (like nowadays guardian-fighter's block depends from time).
The first what caught my eye was that in that game shield block was intended not for all over the time blocking but for blocking mostly just most powerful attacks.
Nowadays guardian-fighter's shield block is different from that because tanky guardian-fighters are able to use their shield block all over the time.
For me as for guardian fighter who play Neverwinter online since 1 module nowadays blocking sometimes makes game boring. But according to the a lot of changes in the game and in other classes I suppose it is imposible to change guardian-fighter’s shield block to old blocking and now I would like to tell about a bit other moment related to shield block to make guardian-fighter's tanking interesting.
Guardian fighter has 3 skills that restore stamina of shield. In the 1-2 modules they were actual for tanking because than more of stamina you have than more damage you can absorb.
But now tanky guardian fighter (on hight level) can use his shield nearly all over the time and without restoring stamina using that 3 skills. Also very often it is danger to use them because damage that you take while cast skill is much more than profit from this skill.
I am talking about that mechanic of blocking had changed. But skills that are intended for tanking mostly hadn't changed. And very often they are useless and doesn't give some profit for guardian fighter.
Based on the above I would like to propose some concrete changes and improvements in some guardian-fighter's skills that are intended for tanking and group protection.
1) [Iron warrior]
This skill is the most danger to use because it has very long cast time and relatively small profit. Because while guardian fighter open his shield block to cast this skill he takes a lot of damage. This incoming damage is much higher than profit of this skill.
Because of this it will be great to add 50% incoming damage mitigation to guardian fighter while he casts this skill. It can make using this skill much more comfortable.
Also I suppose that it will be great to rework temporary hit points that this skill gives and improve them. I would like to propose to this skill will give to guardian-fighter about 20-30% from his max hit points as a temporary hit points. It will make profit of this skill better.
This skill is absolutely defensive skill. And according to reworked mechanics of the other classes this skill is greatly obsolete. And according to that guardian fighter has low CC resistance without shield (what is very important for tanking) I also would like to propose to this skill to give to guardian-fighter about 30% additional CC resistance while buff of this skill is active. It will make profit of this skill better.
2) [Knight's valour] (this skill does not restore stamina but it very related to tanking)
This skill is mostly used for group protection. But according to the other shields Knight's valour is much weaker. This make guardian fighter much less popular in team as a protector. And to make guardian-fighter's tank mechanic more interesting I wold like to propose to add to this skill +30% CC resistance to all allies affected by Knight's valour. It will make guardian-fighter's protection much more interesting (according to that paladin already has shield that greatly increase just defence). And it will make role of guardian fighter in raid much more specific than it is.
3) [Reinforced threat]
This skill is already good. But to improve guardian-fighter as a protector I think than it will be great to add to this skill debuff on foes that will reduce their damage to allies on 10-15%. This change isn't important because this skill is allready good in PvE. But it will improove guardian-fighter as a protector also in PvP.
Also in a lot of mmorpg games tanks usually have skill that deal aggro in PvP. This skill just make foes disable to attack someone except the tank for a short time (3-4 seconds). If this mechanic will be added to guardian-fighter's skill [Reinforced threat] I think it will make guardian fighter much more interesting and useful in PvP as a protector.
As you know there is a message in Neverwinter Online if you trying to atack wrong target. Maybe this game mechanics can be realised like that message.
So, here were some new proposals from guardian fighter that play from 1 module I am sure that there are also a lot of other very experienced and good guardian fighters. What do you think about thise changes? Would you like to add something?
Lets make our class much more interesting and playable together
Ps: I suppose everyone knows that [Into the fray] makes some guardian-fighters extremely strong. And allows to them to kill their target from one combo. And I am agree that it will be good to balance this skill. For example do not change damage buff on allies but remove just damage buff from guardian fighter (to make him disable to increase his damage but still able to increase movement and action points generation).
Seems like this skill was intended for tacticians. But always conquerrors use it to be extrimely strong damage deallers.
And I am sorry for my english This is again my feedback about the guardian-fighter's tanking Few minutes earlier I was watching a video about gameplay for one of the tanky classes in one new mmorpg with active battle system.
That tanky class had a shield alike guardian-fighter's shield from 1-2 modules. It gives immunity to incoming damage and CC effects like old guardian-fighter's shield but it doesn't depends from incoming damage (like nowadays guardian-fighter's block depends from time).
The first what caught my eye was that in that game shield block was intended not for all over the time blocking but for blocking mostly just most powerful attacks.
Nowadays guardian-fighter's shield block is different from that because tanky guardian-fighters are able to use their shield block all over the time.
For me as for guardian fighter who play Neverwinter online since 1 module nowadays blocking sometimes makes game boring. But according to the a lot of changes in the game and in other classes I suppose it is imposible to change guardian-fighter’s shield block to old blocking and now I would like to tell about a bit other moment related to shield block to make guardian-fighter's tanking interesting.
Guardian fighter has 3 skills that restore stamina of shield. In the 1-2 modules they were actual for tanking because than more of stamina you have than more damage you can absorb.
But now tanky guardian fighter (on hight level) can use his shield nearly all over the time and without restoring stamina using that 3 skills. Also very often it is danger to use them because damage that you take while cast skill is much more than profit from this skill.
I am talking about that mechanic of blocking had changed. But skills that are intended for tanking mostly hadn't changed. And very often they are useless and doesn't give some profit for guardian fighter.
Based on the above I would like to propose some concrete changes and improvements in some guardian-fighter's skills that are intended for tanking and group protection.
1) [Iron warrior]
This skill is the most danger to use because it has very long cast time and relatively small profit. Because while guardian fighter open his shield block to cast this skill he takes a lot of damage. This incoming damage is much higher than profit of this skill.
Because of this it will be great to add 50% incoming damage mitigation to guardian fighter while he casts this skill. It can make using this skill much more comfortable.
Also I suppose that it will be great to rework temporary hit points that this skill gives and improve them. I would like to propose to this skill will give to guardian-fighter about 20-30% from his max hit points as a temporary hit points. It will make profit of this skill better.
This skill is absolutely defensive skill. And according to reworked mechanics of the other classes this skill is greatly obsolete. And according to that guardian fighter has low CC resistance without shield (what is very important for tanking) I also would like to propose to this skill to give to guardian-fighter about 30% additional CC resistance while buff of this skill is active. It will make profit of this skill better.
2) [Knight's valour] (this skill does not restore stamina but it very related to tanking)
This skill is mostly used for group protection. But according to the other shields Knight's valour is much weaker. This make guardian fighter much less popular in team as a protector. And to make guardian-fighter's tank mechanic more interesting I wold like to propose to add to this skill +30% CC resistance to all allies affected by Knight's valour. It will make guardian-fighter's protection much more interesting (according to that paladin already has shield that greatly increase just defence). And it will make role of guardian fighter in raid much more specific than it is.
3) [Reinforced threat]
This skill is already good. But to improve guardian-fighter as a protector I think than it will be great to add to this skill debuff on foes that will reduce their damage to allies on 10-15%. This change isn't important because this skill is allready good in PvE. But it will improove guardian-fighter as a protector also in PvP.
Also in a lot of mmorpg games tanks usually have skill that deal aggro in PvP. This skill just make foes disable to attack someone except the tank for a short time (3-4 seconds). If this mechanic will be added to guardian-fighter's skill [Reinforced threat] I think it will make guardian fighter much more interesting and useful in PvP as a protector.
As you know there is a message in Neverwinter Online if you trying to atack wrong target. Maybe this game mechanics can be realised like that message.
So, here were some new proposals from guardian fighter that play from 1 module
I am sure that there are also a lot of other very experienced and good guardian fighters. What do you think about thise changes? Would you like to add something?Lets make our class much more interesting and playable together
Ps: I suppose everyone knows that [Into the fray] makes some guardian-fighters extremely strong. And allows to them to kill their target from one combo. And I am agree that it will be good to balance this skill. For example do not change damage buff on allies but remove just damage buff from guardian fighter (to make him disable to increase his damage but still able to increase movement and action points generation).
Seems like this skill was intended for tacticians. But always conquerrors use it to be extrimely strong damage deallers.
Post edited by dolrey on
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Comments
Currently however the GF has very good threat management, insane party damage buffs, and invulnerability (steel defense!). To me the only change that the GF needs is some animation time tweaks on some of their abilities. I would like to see Villain's Menace and Iron Warrior animation time reduced significantly.
Maybe to help out "new" or low-mid ranged gear tanks they could add +% DR or something to one of the abilities scores. (like OP)
GF have some issues with long animations and shield not always responding quickly enough but those can be improved first before adding new features as well. Overall GF is in a very good place IMO and i would always rather a GF on my team then a OP since GF offer so much more utility then a OP
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
when i first playing it, i used to complain that they run slow, and they still do run slow when catching up with others when i was suppose to be leading as tank at front, i was suppose to pull mobs and some bosses before other players start attacking.
dark enchants where only good for short burst speed when using specific spells/skills.
GF seem to be heavily punished for wearing plates, and jumping seem gimpy and weak, since they were suppose to be trained for mobility.
i remember old classic "natural trained skill" in heavy armors in Neverwinter Nights, and they were a "Prestige" ability once they reach higher levels, the better they jump and better they run, also i have seen that in Oblivion and Skyrim melee fighters pick up that armor skill as armor mastery.
recently, with new lockbox, New Life add new artifact package, Cube of Augmenation, i got lucky and unlocked Resist AoE ability for my artifact shield, and spend few tries and got +398, that was almost perfect +400. my GF survivabilty had got way better resisting lot of AoE attacks only when he has shield up in blocking mode.
but thier weakness is getting flanked.
Well of Dragons are still deadly with black knights flanking and get hulkified, and very important to conserve some interrupt skills to stop them reading scrolls or drinking the potions. it all about timings.
Neverwinter was my first (and only mmo), and I only played since I loved Neverwinter Nights 1&2. Little did I know when I chose to play Guardian Fighter that it was going to be a POS class that no one wanted in dungeons except to be everyone's punchbag or to run around like like a sissy with 50 ice golems chasing after me. Still I stuck it out since open beta with anything and everything that aloud me to do damage getting nerfed (e.g., stalwart bulwark set)
So mod 6 comes along and I finally get a damage buff and can now do my daily's without taking all day, and can finally get great success in HE's without having to deliberately stand in the red.
I had to work long and hard to get where I am since I never got to do the Castle Never ring farms and make loads of money to max my gear out and buy nice things since no one wanted GF's.
The conqueror path is designed to do damage, and finally it does. DC's can do DPS and buff, so why can't we? CW's can tank with shield, CC, and do damage, etc. So why should we be forced to just hide behind shields.
I'm not saying ITF doesn't need toning down, but to remove our damage buff is one of the worst suggestions I've ever heard. Perhaps cap it at 80% inline with DR and fix bonding stones to max of 3 stacks.
GF isn't broken, the game is. Nothing needs tanking. So if you nerf our damage then it becomes mod 2-5 all over again. No thanks.