Here is what I saw in a few hundred runs: in every 10th run there was a char with a lvl lower than 70. Of these chars, at last 50% have class artefacts, gear or companions from a zen market pack, so evidently alts farming RAD.
I saw ppl going AFK, I saw ppl switching chars, to complete more instances at a time, I saw 600 IL lvl 70 players and BIS players running TOS.
You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Furthermore you dont know how I am running this and last but not least, you are wrong, if you assume, that a well geared player has to kill all mobs in a dungeon, if the other players cant even handle one single drow, bc they have zero gear on this char, alt or main.
A lvl 70 player with 600 IL in any dungeon skirmish etc is bad manners, in my opinion. Lazy ppl counting on other players, do do their work, contributing nothing at all, wasting other players time is rude.
Running a available dungeon on an well geared char is bad manners, I dissagree.
Here is the fun thing. Bc of abovementioned ppl I ask friends to log in on alts, que with me and I run it solo. It is faster, than running with 2 PuGs. I would love it, if every well geared player would do this and I look forward to the 'nerf TOS' posts, when there is no one around doing the work for them, just as it happened with Tiamat and will happen with EDemo.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
The main point being made here is: it is multiplayer, it is party. If you have no intention of helping/being part of that party, you have no business being there. Being in a party you remove your primary concern from "me" to "us".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The main point being made here is: it is multiplayer, it is party. If you have no intention of helping/being part of that party, you have no business being there. Being in a party you remove your primary concern from "me" to "us".
You are right, us, not you. So killing 90-95% of the mobs before moving on should be enough. PPl crying about 'bad overgeared players' not killing all mobs, so they die from one or two drows, bc they run with underskilled and geared alts are the egoistic ones. This is a 3 person dungeon. If I kill 90% of the mobs and the other two cant handle 10%, two of us did not bother to get the gear, needed for this dungeon.
I have no problem, to carry other players, but if they dont want to contribute at all, dont bother to slot equip on their chars and dont learn to play them, I dont feel inclined to help them leeching.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
How much are you helping if you're standing at the end door for 8 minutes waiting for the others to catch up? A party is supposed to stay together and work together.
I've gone in dungeons, with all 5 of my characters I am still powering up gear. I will stop to loot nodes that no one seems to want. I will stop to pick up loot left on the ground that others deem is "trash". 100 rp is still 100 points closer to the goal. More often than not these activities often see me at the tail end of the party, because "hurry up! stop picking up green HAMSTER!" comes from the front of the party.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
How much are you helping if you're standing at the end door for 8 minutes waiting for the others to catch up? A party is supposed to stay together and work together.
I've gone in dungeons, with all 5 of my characters I am still powering up gear. I will stop to loot nodes that no one seems to want. I will stop to pick up loot left on the ground that others deem is "trash". 100 rp is still 100 points closer to the goal. More often than not these activities often see me at the tail end of the party, because "hurry up! stop picking up green HAMSTER!" comes from the front of the party.
Well I cleared 95% f the dungeon, how much did you help? The party should stay together, you claim. But you state, that you lack behind, bc you loot nodes and drops. So as a fact, you run at your own speed and you fault others for doing the same.
Many ppl, as do I, have jobs and limited game time. If they want to earn AD in game, the try to do it in the fastest possible way. You have 5 characters. Each character can get 10k AD for running TOS twice a day. Thats 50k/ day. If you do speedruns, it takes ca. a hour. If you pick up everything and loot all nodes, it takes more than 2 hours. Thats the average game time of a casual player. If you want to progress, you should do dailies, farm gear etc. Running TOS is not something ppl like to do, but do, to get AD, to progress. I prefer getting done with it and running something else. If you skip running TOS with one char bc of the time spent running with your other 4 chars, you LOSE progress, bc the 10K AD earned with the 5th char would give you much more, than the loot, you pick up.
ASTEROTG, You're true colors are shining through very brightly.
you are one of those selfish elitists that refuse to accept that your way has NO PLACE in a multi player/team/party game.You really should give up playing MMO's as you clearly do not understand(or possibly care) how these types of games should be played.
All instances and dungeons are for grinding. A player will end up running them tens, if not hundreds, of times for reward. There will be plenty of opportunities to take it slow and enjoy it. One have to be pretty dim-witted not to recognize and appreciate the opportunity for a speed run.
Every player should be aware of their gear level. If another player is able to do a speed run, should not be hard to keep up. Just stop picking up the pittances along the way. The sooner you finish the current run, the sooner you can start the next one. For players gearing up, the rate of accumulating rewards should be the most important. Collect the dollar, leave the penny.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Well I cleared 95% f the dungeon, how much did you help? The party should stay together, you claim. But you state, that you lack behind, bc you loot nodes and drops. So as a fact, you run at your own speed and you fault others for doing the same.
Many ppl, as do I, have jobs and limited game time. If they want to earn AD in game, the try to do it in the fastest possible way. You have 5 characters. Each character can get 10k AD for running TOS twice a day. Thats 50k/ day. If you do speedruns, it takes ca. a hour. If you pick up everything and loot all nodes, it takes more than 2 hours. Thats the average game time of a casual player. If you want to progress, you should do dailies, farm gear etc. Running TOS is not something ppl like to do, but do, to get AD, to progress. I prefer getting done with it and running something else. If you skip running TOS with one char bc of the time spent running with your other 4 chars, you LOSE progress, bc the 10K AD earned with the 5th char would give you much more, than the loot, you pick up.
Except certain basics having to do with my mentality: What I do with one character, for the most part, will stay with that character. I don't bounce AD around from one to another using zax.
I'm not faulting others. I go at a pace that allows me to do what I need within the constraints of what the rest of party can do. If I am the big fish in the pond, I make sure that the people I'm with know where the nodes are and ask or allow them to take them if they want them. I support my allies to the best of my ability, both in combat and if they need to take a bit of time to deal with health/injuries or inventory management.
If one person decides to run ahead of myself and the other person, and they happen to die, that's on them. If the other person runs ahead, takes shortcuts, and leaves us behind with mobs to deal with, that is also on them.
But if a person runs ahead and gets to the last door long before the others in the party, even if they killed 90-100% and then complains because we didn't keep up, that's not my problem either.
I have 1 main character that I run. If I am in the mood I will run a second. The only exception to this is I will make sure that I rotate the back 4 characters in order to get the weekly AD from DtP/AR/RW/RtH.
I see no difference in the AD I get if I run CC, GWD or ToS.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
ASTEROTG, You're true colors are shining through very brightly.
you are one of those selfish elitists that refuse to accept that your way has NO PLACE in a multi player/team/party game.You really should give up playing MMO's as you clearly do not understand(or possibly care) how these types of games should be played.
I think, we either play diffrent games, have different goals or a different understanding of this games.
I play MMORPGs for years, did T 2 HM raids, got BIS gear and multiple 3k+ chars, without paying a dime. I helped more ppl gearing up and running dungeons in the years I play, than you most likely know in this game. I have given away more gear, AD, enchants etc. to friends and guildmates, than you most likely own, but sure, I am an egoist and I dont know, how to play this game.
I can que up to EDemo with 2 or 3 of my friends and get triple gold, if the other guys dont screw up to badly, but I dont know how to play this game.
The difference between us is, that I know exactly how to play this game and how to gear up, while you think, that all the other players should play to your liking.
Some ppl know nothing and pretend, thats good. I love, how ppl COMPLAIN about other ppl doing 95% of the work, bc they did not 100% instead of beeing happy, that someone did more than his share.
I dont fault other players for their way of playing, dont think, that you can impose your opinion on me. This is a MMO and I know how to play with my chars and with others.
You can either take the advice of someone playing this game for a longer time, how to gear up and get better or you can ignore it, but dont tell ppl to stop playing, bc they dont play the way you like.
Once again your true colors are shining through very clearly.
You can make any claim you want, it doesn't matter. Your elitist attitude has shown that your words are just that.
In one sentence you claim to "help" everyone and in the next you talk about "you" "you" "you". How you're better than others and how your style IS the ONLY right way to play and "those" people that do it differently are wasting "your" time.
Are you seeing the pattern yet?
I'll give "YOU" a hint...
Playing MMO's for 10 years or 1 month makes no difference other than those that have played longer should know that in a TEAM BASED GAME it is inappropriate to scream "me,me,me". Your boasts about how leet you are as opposed to me (like you know anything about my MMO experiences) also scream elitist snob.
Do I think that being team friendly in a pug or a random queue is a necessity in a successful gaming experience? YES I DO.
Does that make me a noob? NOPE
Does it bother me if someone wants to kill ALL the mobs in a dungeon for the xp and loot, or stop to mine every node?NO
If that is the wrong way to play in your mind then so be it.
Being that I'm secure in my gaming experience and feel no need to pull out the measuring stick for you I will not be comparing my accomplishments to yours. If believing you're better than me helps you feel better than by all means, you are the man, congradulations
Once again your true colors are shining through very clearly.
You can make any claim you want, it doesn't matter. Your elitist attitude has shown that your words are just that.
In one sentence you claim to "help" everyone and in the next you talk about "you" "you" "you". How you're better than others and how your style IS the ONLY right way to play and "those" people that do it differently are wasting "your" time.
Are you seeing the pattern yet?
I'll give "YOU" a hint...
Playing MMO's for 10 years or 1 month makes no difference other than those that have played longer should know that in a TEAM BASED GAME it is inappropriate to scream "me,me,me". Your boasts about how leet you are as opposed to me (like you know anything about my MMO experiences) also scream elitist snob.
Do I think that being team friendly in a pug or a random queue is a necessity in a successful gaming experience? YES I DO.
Does that make me a noob? NOPE
Does it bother me if someone wants to kill ALL the mobs in a dungeon for the xp and loot, or stop to mine every node?NO
If that is the wrong way to play in your mind then so be it.
Being that I'm secure in my gaming experience and feel no need to pull out the measuring stick for you I will not be comparing my accomplishments to yours. If believing you're better than me helps you feel better than by all means, you are the man, congradulations
Really? You berated my playstyle and my way of playing and now you complain, when I elaborate how I play. You got personal, not me. You are opinionated, not me.
A team based game, yes. It should be a good expirience for the team. The conclusion is NOT, that all have to play according to the wishes of one player, but the team. I tone down my speed, if I run PuG, to make the run easier for low geared alts. Why should I be the only one to adapt. 'I want to loot everything, you have to wait for me' or 'I collect every node, you have to wait for me' or 'I cant kill anything, you have to do it' is the egozentric point of view here, not mine.
Good luck gearing up and finding good players willing to play with you. Did you ever think about other players gaming expirience, when you make 4 others wait for you, bc there is this green item, you have to loot or the node, you wanted to open, while the others clear the dungeon and wait for you, after they are done?
If you are such a superior L33T, why the hell are you pugging with those lowly green-gear mongers that you seem to despise.
You sound like a rich Manhattanite complaining of the slow service in a Harlem greasy spoon.
Surely a L33T player such as yourself has dozens of like-minded L33T guidies and friends.
You only need 2.
Surely you have at least 2 L33T friends to do speed runs.
No friends of your superior L33T caliber?
Okay. Go on LFG and say "L33T 4k+ seeks same for ToS speed runs. Slow n00bs need not apply".
You will never again have to slum with those slow, lazy penny-pickers you seem to despise.
Problem solved. Can we move on now? This is boring.
How comes, that just stating the fact, that someone with 3k+ IL is allowed to run low IL dungeons and does not have to clear all of the dungeons, make you think, that I despise low IL players?
Once again and for the last time:
1. If I am allowed to run a dungeon and I am no burden to my group, stop complaining about me paricipating in this run.
2. If someone with a higher IL is running with you, dont complain, if he does not take your hand and does ALL the work for you. This are 3, 5, 10 or 25 ppl runs. You should at last put in some effort on your own and be able and willing to kill one or two mobs.
3. Group play is respecting the needs of all the party members. If you think as the weakest and slowest member, the others have to run the dungeon your way, this is not group oriented, but self centered.
I run normal ToS on my 70's for AD. I figured that was a normal practice, especially considering when I run it on lower leveled toons. The vast majority of the time, I'm accompanied by at least one 70. I think the inherent problem is, people feel like their time is more valuable than another's. When I play these normal dungeons with my 70's, yes, I rush through it BUT, I stop and kill all the content that we encounter. Why? Because I'm not rude and inconsiderate. I stay close enough to my group so that they can always see me and see that I am fighting mobs. I don't sprint/dodge/blink, etc. ahead like a tool leaving them behind to fend for themselves.
If I or anyone else thinks that I/they are awesome enough to just blast through the content, then at least do it with some class. I've never really come across someone low level, actually there because the content is level appropriate for them, complain about a fast run. I have complained myself and have heard others complain about the pretentious folks who think that it's completely fine to run past all the content and go boss to boss.
Some of you tout that communication is the key. But you're also failing to understand that a lot of folks either don't pay attention to group chat, or they don't necessarily speak your language - or worse yet, they don't care about what you have to say.
Cryptic or whomever writes code/makes decisions, should seriously consider making a lot of this content soloable. Sure, that's an affront to the MMORPG model but, that's a way to help curb this behavior.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
So your making a AD run in say ToS (Temple of Spider- Non Epic). You blow past all the MoBs to the boss, smackem down in 5 seconds flat an move to the next, your standing at the gate to End Boss in 8 min flat --- waiting for the other slow low level sots to catch up. You watch the health bars an see one die, the other at half life....you grumble to yourself low levels...
Really what did you expect? If you were really that powerful you would have killed all the MOBs on your way thru so they could keep up with you...so do it. Its really bad manners IMHO to leave lower level players to deal with the massive agro you just created blowing thru all the mobs. Most cant handle the damage they take trying to keep up. Looks bad for your guild also...Who wants to join a guild of self centered high levels?
Most of all: Its just good play, if your gonna blow thru, kill everything and don't leave it for the little guys or the less geared. Makes you look good, makes your guild look good, and the little guys appreciate not being left in the dust with 20 Mobs hounding them to the Boss Gate.
Just sayin, if your that strong KILLEM ALL
PS I believe you should play any way you want, but good play is good play.
Rolen
I blow through on GWF's (I have 4) when I am in desperate need of AD. No I don't mind if the others are low geared and I don't mind if it takes them a little bit to catch up. I do wait for them before attacking boss so they can get their seals and random blue drop.
But then when I blow through eToS with friends I do so for the purple rings/waist. They are good for the Mimic Coffer.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
if you don't hit the mobs you can't take the agro off of the person leading the charge. Just run with them and don't hit anything. Easy peasy
Great thread btw, lots of good input. Hopefully this awareness will help those that need it in the new dungeons coming up. A little brotherly love makes the game so much better to play and the experience of leveling for the new and old better.
Comments
I saw ppl going AFK, I saw ppl switching chars, to complete more instances at a time, I saw 600 IL lvl 70 players and BIS players running TOS.
You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Furthermore you dont know how I am running this and last but not least, you are wrong, if you assume, that a well geared player has to kill all mobs in a dungeon, if the other players cant even handle one single drow, bc they have zero gear on this char, alt or main.
A lvl 70 player with 600 IL in any dungeon skirmish etc is bad manners, in my opinion. Lazy ppl counting on other players, do do their work, contributing nothing at all, wasting other players time is rude.
Running a available dungeon on an well geared char is bad manners, I dissagree.
Here is the fun thing. Bc of abovementioned ppl I ask friends to log in on alts, que with me and I run it solo. It is faster, than running with 2 PuGs. I would love it, if every well geared player would do this and I look forward to the 'nerf TOS' posts, when there is no one around doing the work for them, just as it happened with Tiamat and will happen with EDemo.
I have no problem, to carry other players, but if they dont want to contribute at all, dont bother to slot equip on their chars and dont learn to play them, I dont feel inclined to help them leeching.
I've gone in dungeons, with all 5 of my characters I am still powering up gear. I will stop to loot nodes that no one seems to want. I will stop to pick up loot left on the ground that others deem is "trash". 100 rp is still 100 points closer to the goal. More often than not these activities often see me at the tail end of the party, because "hurry up! stop picking up green HAMSTER!" comes from the front of the party.
Many ppl, as do I, have jobs and limited game time. If they want to earn AD in game, the try to do it in the fastest possible way. You have 5 characters. Each character can get 10k AD for running TOS twice a day. Thats 50k/ day. If you do speedruns, it takes ca. a hour. If you pick up everything and loot all nodes, it takes more than 2 hours. Thats the average game time of a casual player. If you want to progress, you should do dailies, farm gear etc. Running TOS is not something ppl like to do, but do, to get AD, to progress. I prefer getting done with it and running something else. If you skip running TOS with one char bc of the time spent running with your other 4 chars, you LOSE progress, bc the 10K AD earned with the 5th char would give you much more, than the loot, you pick up.
you are one of those selfish elitists that refuse to accept that your way has NO PLACE in a multi player/team/party game.You really should give up playing MMO's as you clearly do not understand(or possibly care) how these types of games should be played.
Every player should be aware of their gear level. If another player is able to do a speed run, should not be hard to keep up. Just stop picking up the pittances along the way. The sooner you finish the current run, the sooner you can start the next one. For players gearing up, the rate of accumulating rewards should be the most important. Collect the dollar, leave the penny.
I'm not faulting others. I go at a pace that allows me to do what I need within the constraints of what the rest of party can do. If I am the big fish in the pond, I make sure that the people I'm with know where the nodes are and ask or allow them to take them if they want them. I support my allies to the best of my ability, both in combat and if they need to take a bit of time to deal with health/injuries or inventory management.
If one person decides to run ahead of myself and the other person, and they happen to die, that's on them. If the other person runs ahead, takes shortcuts, and leaves us behind with mobs to deal with, that is also on them.
But if a person runs ahead and gets to the last door long before the others in the party, even if they killed 90-100% and then complains because we didn't keep up, that's not my problem either.
I have 1 main character that I run. If I am in the mood I will run a second. The only exception to this is I will make sure that I rotate the back 4 characters in order to get the weekly AD from DtP/AR/RW/RtH.
I see no difference in the AD I get if I run CC, GWD or ToS.
I play MMORPGs for years, did T 2 HM raids, got BIS gear and multiple 3k+ chars, without paying a dime. I helped more ppl gearing up and running dungeons in the years I play, than you most likely know in this game. I have given away more gear, AD, enchants etc. to friends and guildmates, than you most likely own, but sure, I am an egoist and I dont know, how to play this game.
I can que up to EDemo with 2 or 3 of my friends and get triple gold, if the other guys dont screw up to badly, but I dont know how to play this game.
The difference between us is, that I know exactly how to play this game and how to gear up, while you think, that all the other players should play to your liking.
Some ppl know nothing and pretend, thats good. I love, how ppl COMPLAIN about other ppl doing 95% of the work, bc they did not 100% instead of beeing happy, that someone did more than his share.
I dont fault other players for their way of playing, dont think, that you can impose your opinion on me. This is a MMO and I know how to play with my chars and with others.
You can either take the advice of someone playing this game for a longer time, how to gear up and get better or you can ignore it, but dont tell ppl to stop playing, bc they dont play the way you like.
You can make any claim you want, it doesn't matter. Your elitist attitude has shown that your words are just that.
In one sentence you claim to "help" everyone and in the next you talk about "you" "you" "you". How you're better than others and how your style IS the ONLY right way to play and "those" people that do it differently are wasting "your" time.
Are you seeing the pattern yet?
I'll give "YOU" a hint...
Playing MMO's for 10 years or 1 month makes no difference other than those that have played longer should know that in a TEAM BASED GAME it is inappropriate to scream "me,me,me". Your boasts about how leet you are as opposed to me (like you know anything about my MMO experiences) also scream elitist snob.
Do I think that being team friendly in a pug or a random queue is a necessity in a successful gaming experience? YES I DO.
Does that make me a noob? NOPE
Does it bother me if someone wants to kill ALL the mobs in a dungeon for the xp and loot, or stop to mine every node?NO
If that is the wrong way to play in your mind then so be it.
Being that I'm secure in my gaming experience and feel no need to pull out the measuring stick for you I will not be comparing my accomplishments to yours. If believing you're better than me helps you feel better than by all means, you are the man, congradulations
A team based game, yes. It should be a good expirience for the team. The conclusion is NOT, that all have to play according to the wishes of one player, but the team. I tone down my speed, if I run PuG, to make the run easier for low geared alts. Why should I be the only one to adapt. 'I want to loot everything, you have to wait for me' or 'I collect every node, you have to wait for me' or 'I cant kill anything, you have to do it' is the egozentric point of view here, not mine.
Good luck gearing up and finding good players willing to play with you. Did you ever think about other players gaming expirience, when you make 4 others wait for you, bc there is this green item, you have to loot or the node, you wanted to open, while the others clear the dungeon and wait for you, after they are done?
Once again and for the last time:
1. If I am allowed to run a dungeon and I am no burden to my group, stop complaining about me paricipating in this run.
2. If someone with a higher IL is running with you, dont complain, if he does not take your hand and does ALL the work for you. This are 3, 5, 10 or 25 ppl runs. You should at last put in some effort on your own and be able and willing to kill one or two mobs.
3. Group play is respecting the needs of all the party members. If you think as the weakest and slowest member, the others have to run the dungeon your way, this is not group oriented, but self centered.
If I or anyone else thinks that I/they are awesome enough to just blast through the content, then at least do it with some class. I've never really come across someone low level, actually there because the content is level appropriate for them, complain about a fast run. I have complained myself and have heard others complain about the pretentious folks who think that it's completely fine to run past all the content and go boss to boss.
Some of you tout that communication is the key. But you're also failing to understand that a lot of folks either don't pay attention to group chat, or they don't necessarily speak your language - or worse yet, they don't care about what you have to say.
Cryptic or whomever writes code/makes decisions, should seriously consider making a lot of this content soloable. Sure, that's an affront to the MMORPG model but, that's a way to help curb this behavior.
But then when I blow through eToS with friends I do so for the purple rings/waist. They are good for the Mimic Coffer.
Rolen
You have a lot of posts. Aren't you a little sick of running the same old content hundreds of time?