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Haste Cleric, It's time for a real guide.
veywiil
Member Posts: 208 Arc User
in The Temple
Honestly, Cleric is the most confusing class i have ever read. I mean I've read the skills and feats for over 4 hours now. I'm still not clear on how the haste cleric works, maybe it seems straightforward, but I've been trying to play and read up on one. It makes 0 sense. To make it worse the only guide that exists on the whole first 50 pages of google results was the mod 6 Xbox one form cloud something. Which has almost 0 explanation in it. Can someone write a real guide for haste clerics, or any cleric in general cause tbh I'm not sure WTF I'm looking at. These skill tool-tips are literally taking up half the screen vertically. Seriously...
I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
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It is too hard to help if you want a general guide without saying what your role and what gear you have. Usually if you have burning set we build for pvp faithful tank, high prophet for righteous dps/debuff, while the rest goes to virtuous or faithful healer build.
Or you want us to list out every single build that are working? Do you even know even for the same feats and path or role we take, we still have high versatility with different core skill and play style about what we gonna be? Just play for some months and respec into what you want. The free retraining token from event may help.
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=23ci:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13l3305:1000000:1000000:1yuuzbv&h=0&p=anc
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=23ci:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13l3305:1z05000:1z05551:1000000&h=0&p=dvo
Please modify your own as i dont know whats your IL and gear. But these 2 practically sums up the first stage of AP DC leveling, from pve to pvp.
I've commented the haste build "mod 6 Xbox one form cloud something" both on this forum and on mmominds. Imo, that guide is just the basic, it misses important pieces if you want to be a pure AP cleric. I'm not saying that it's wrong but you should consider it as the basis to do many and different things on top of it. A haste build is not Gift of Haste only.
I've reported in this forum my complete setup here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1208244/should-i-retire-my-dc-again/p2
and you will find valuable insights here if you decide to go righteous.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1209776/min-maxing-elite-dcs-pls-enter-no-trolls
My 2-cent addition: the DC is a great class which requires your brain to study, your time to test, other clerics to discuss and experience to steer and that's why at the beginning it seems confusing.
Even if you adopt whatever guide, you will discover slowly that you have so many options that 30 guides should be needed both for PvE and PvP.
One more: plan very carefully what you want to be at the end because the high-end cleric is almost a no-return choice unless you have time and money/AD to spend. I've invested a lot of time (2 years) and money to be a pure AP cleric, I'm very happy about it because this is what I wanted to be. I've followed a guide when I started, but after that it was a love story with my DC along an intense learning curve.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
That trap door swings both ways
Use bastion, divine sunburst and divine glow. use whatever class features you like. please make sure you use blessing of battle as an at will since it is feated. This build needs no special gear, and doesn't take 2 years to carefully craft. this AP build will build a lot of AP and have a lot of HoTs.
IMO, full AP DCs are only a crutch for other classes who haven't bothered to build themselves well enough to sustain their own dailies. Some AP gain from a DC is good and helpful, too much is silly. So, a pure AP DC can help carry a low geared group who can't sustain themselves because they have no gear but as soon as your (properly built) group hits 2k+ a full AP gain DC is much less effective.
Now, an de/buffing DC that also gives AP gain will go righteous with 3 feats in virtuous for AP gain. Use 1 divine sunburst, 2 divine divine glow then empowered break the spirit, then regular divine glow. Never use normal sunburst unless the mobs are CC immune. This rotation is best for a balanced party (DC/GF/3x dps) and provides max de/buffing and excellent AP gain.
divine fortune is a useful class feature, holy fervor is also helpful in building more AP for you to cast buffing dailies (annointed army while hallowed ground is already up) faster. fortune and fervor have horrible artifact OH bonuses though, so perhaps replace fervor with annointed army for a decent OH bonus that gives you more survivability. This build makes for a little squishier group since heals are not as strong or instant (like faithful)
Or, go faithful with 3 feats in righteous for haste. lots more healing, makes you and the group the most tanky b/c of Gift of Faith.
rotation would be , 3x divine divine glow, empowered break the spirit, then divine glow then bastion. use divine bastion as needed.
IMO switching between faithful and righteous and virtuous is as easy as a respec. If you want to do DPS righteous that is different, since you do need a much different gear etc, but between healers it is only a respec token. DC is actually a very capable class at low gear because their abilities are so powerful (bts buffs for 30% no matter if you are 2k or 4k). DPS DC is a different story again and i have no experience there.
I also urge caution against using arcofortep12's guides. They are very light on details (i was light here as well, i never claimed this was a guide in any way though) and his guides frequently get a couple pages of corrections and much better advice that he never bothers to incorporate into his guides. He mixes and matches feats and abilities and in the end nothing really synergizes or makes effective use of the build. So, read his guides, but read ALL the comments and read the rest of the threads in the class forum of the guide you are looking at as well. there is a lot of information spread around that you can use to have a more effective build then what arcofortep12 packages up for you.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I thought my noobishness was inherently clear from the first post, perhaps not though. My bad.
Also you can leverage preview to experiment with any concepts that interest you from your research without the huge cost of testing them on live.
Kaelac's guide is one of the most fundamental guide, if you just read it a few times and leveled your DC to 70 you will at least know the basics of DC playstyle. After that, you can freely throw some question to us and start modifying your own build. Everyone who customise their own build has their own version of best build, even for AP build i can make it into dps/debuff build without puting any points into gift of haste, which is the one i posted above, requiring hastening light to give AP per daily.
Prior to lvl 70, just put any points into place you like and slowly learn the class. Hope you can create your own build and share for improvements in the future.
1) Get Gift of Haste
2) Spam heal-over-time abilities eg feated Bastion of Health/Divine Glow, Healing Word, feated attack powers (because of Cleansing Fire), etc.
Result: These abilities proc Gift of Haste which rewards your allies with bonus AP.
No one bothers to explain it because it's highly intuitive for anyone who actually has the feat. Hastening Light is self-explanatory.
That's it. The feat has a few bugs associated with it, but unless you want a FotM build that can become obsolete at any time you'll want to avoid relying on them.
In my view, an AP cleric is a cleric which is able to use the dailies as uncounter power whatever encounter power you use (not only HoT powers) and where GoH is just one way to do it. An AP cleric is a cleric that at the end of HG has its own AP > 80% and in this case GoH (and that build) has nothing to do with it.
If you can reach the AP gain stat >80% with that link only, then I agree with you: it's a joke.
Currently I'm at +95%. I use GoH to empower my ap gain stat: it gives me a lot of flexibility and I don't have to slot HoT powers only. And the difference between a cleric with 95% ap gain + Goh and a cleric with GoH only is huge. The latter is limited to be a healer and an AP spammer with zero options: no advanced cleric would accept it as the final goal.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
2) I *could* take time to edit your guides and repost them, but just from reading through them briefly its easy to spot many logical flaws, incorrect choices and lack of editing. Furthermore, I don't see this ever changing, what I suggest you do the next time you build a character is copy it over to preview and spend a few hours testing, rather then levelling a character to 70 and posting the build you finished with. Until I see some actual effort put into your writing, I am not going to take the time to put effort into dissecting them one by one.
3) You cannot build a character in neverwinter by "reading the tooltips" the tooltips in the game are in most cases wrong and misleading and thus any guide based purely off the tooltips will also be wrong. To understand what the abilities actually do, you have to test them.
4) Your Righteous DC guide gives up 10% damage from bear your sins for 10% arp, 10% arp is easy to acquire off of gear, 10% damage is not. This is clearly a logical fallacy and if you had done testing, you would realise the damage is better. Furthermore, your CW guide is firstly off master of flame (which by itself is not so bad) but secondly is thaumaturge. The only real reason to go MoF is for buffs, as your damage is bad but you can debuff enemies and the only reason to go thaum is for dps, since thats what it specializes in. If you speccing MoF you might as well automatically go renegade since there is no benefit from going down the other paths that is actually worth pursuing, since the damage of the path is not comparable to an SS ren or SS thaum. Even putting that aside, you take feats like snap freeze which makes no sense in your build since you running powers that add chill stacks opponents and that initial hit doesn't do enough damage to ever kill the opponent just off icy terrain as you have specced MoF. Furthermore, you lie and claim... For the record, yes, I have tested your build and for the record, no, it doesn't deal anywhere near a renegade spellstorm build, you deal about 33% dps less. Download this program here http://advancedcombattracker.com/ and do some proper testing, instead of spamming a dummy for 1 minute and using that as your testing Ice storm made it into your CW guide I see, very clever. Its good to know you can know everything about a build from 1 minute of testing on dummies, maybe your testing could have saved me time on my paladin build...I spent over 30 minutes just checking a single feat. Finally, your temptation SW guide that does damage...no it doesn't and neither does it heal, there is no reason to ever suggest temptation, its flat out bad (I wish it was otherwise, I used to play a temptation lock and I HAVE done my homework on warlock).
5) The copy/paste style of your guides leave a lot to be desired. It is evident you just copy and paste the same stuff from each guide and then change the feats etc, for example, your SW guide is a copy of your CW guide, down to the title and for the record, a SW does not have nearly enough control for it to make its way into the title as a selling feature (or you know, you could try making a healing GWF next and stick that in the title). You do no proofreading and you don't have someone proofread your work for you (yes, I actually get other experienced people to proofread my work who have an educated opinion before I post anything). In your scourge warlock guide, you had 26 heroic feats aside from the fact that even a human can only allocate 23, anyone who actually tried to build your guide or who actually read through it properly would notice that. You post exploits in your guides as well as descriptions of how to abuse them (your gwf guide that got removed) which honestly, is a bit sad.
6) I have never said there is only 1 right way to build a class, but there are definitely wrong ways and the builds you espouse are quite plainly wrong. I do not expect players to just straight up copy a build, but I do expect there to be very little error in the initial build so that deviation from the initial build, if they decide to play it as is, is not mandatory and is rather optional, in contrast to your builds. The next time you post a guide, spend a month testing, a week writing your results, 2 days checking (preferably with the help of someone else) and then 1 day formatting before you post your work, that way it will be of a really good standard. The point of a guide is it is supposed to be given from a position of experience, in your case, its more like the blind leading the blind, which is quite evident from any proper analysis. Yes, builds change depending on ilvl but there are some choices you would never make irrespective of ilvl and I see those throughout your guides.
A righteous DC I know is casting annointed army while hallowed ground is up still and is only using sunburst as a HoT. SB serves double duty to keep a dot on the mobs for bare your sins and to help condem mobs. She has a mythic DC sigil but that is only up every minute and her dailies are coming lots more often then that.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I'm virtuous because of my personal preferences and because I feel very confident with my setup.
This evening I've tried to go righteous with some virtuous, knowing that my current gear set, enchants, artifacts and companions are not the best for this. The main idea was to test this one
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=23ci:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1iix605:150z000:1000000:150uz51&h=0&p=anc
to increase the damage output of the party taking advantage of the high recovery (fast rotation) and the high AP gain (fast dailies). So it's a half-rigtheous because it's without the dps part (I've low crit - 33% - and very low ArPen).
I tried it at eToS with a strong GF from my guild (we know how to play togheter) and 3 DPS.
Indeed the dps output of the team was increased but, telling the truth, playing the righteous was hard for me: the main problem was survivability due to my inexperience with that path. Positions were wrong, timing were wrong, expected self-heals were too low. And at the end the overall time to finish the dungeon was not so different.
Btw, I was very impressed: the righteous is a complete different animal.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
And for the build you linked there, do you think taking 2 or 3 points in Repurpose Soul might help with your healing? I would definitely take 1 point in Repurpose Soul over 1 point in Initiate of the Faith since Initiate is such a poor feat (needing 40k power to get 1% crit).
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Standing with melee also helps because of the power buff; however, its nasty business if agro turns on you. Also the combination of dps and light heals will up your standing on the threat chart so tanks need to be a bit more aware of protecting you.
If you do find the way to survive and heal party, therer will be not better buffer around
1. Virtuous Healer: Yup you just heal and give AP, anytime, anywhere, even not in combat.
2. Faithful x Virtuous Healer: You still heal but gives AP with sunburst. Can go pvp anytime without changing feats.
3. Righteous x Virtuous Buffer: Divine Glow, BoH, Healing word and Sunburst, pick any 2 or 3.
4. Righteous Striker: IWD final boon + Divine Chains + Righteous T1 boon. (More dps, more AP) **Elite only pls, or you die 99**
5. With items/class feature/race etc: DC sigil, AP necklace, AP potion (extinct?), Artifact weapon set bonus, Hastening Light offhand bonus, AA feat etc.
See? Practically everyone is AP DC if specced correctly. My dps/debuff dc gain AP more and faster than virtuous/faithful healer, because he kill faster and his non-stop attacking resulting in more AP/s and higher dps/clearing speed than normal GoH DC. DC is very versatile and have a steep learning curve. Do not complain about no build around, cuz there are too many possibilities. Learn to play, play and learn. Enjoy.