with 45k+ should not the AA be better than HG, according the stated nbr above ? specially with AA is up all time in combat. Anyway, thank you for sharing info like that TheFabricant, learnt much more about HG and AA.
Alone with my pet and AA up decided to put some screenshots and shows my power with Pet and AA
AA + 0 comp gift
AA + 1 gift
AA + 2 gifts
AA + 3 gifts
Guild Event buffed AA + 3 gifts dragon flight
in DG with normal group my PWR average is around 45k+ so not sure that HG is better ^_^
If and only if you have 3 stacks or are buffed like at dragonflight, it is worth it.
It seems to me that Illhora has a very specialized setup where AA is an important part, otherwise I cannot explain the 2588 AP gain. At the end of the day, with such amount of power the difference between AA and HG should not be so high to clear a dungeon in few minutes. @illhora: may I ask you 1 question? What is your overall AP gain % stat and how much the 2588 AP gain contribute to it?
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
with 45k+ should not the AA be better than HG, according the stated nbr above ? specially with AA is up all time in combat. Anyway, thank you for sharing info like that TheFabricant, learnt much more about HG and AA.
No, because (I am assuming you are running weapons of light here) your allies power is already been shifted further up by about 4k so the range changes from 10-22k to 14.5-26.5k. With 1 or 2k more power about 45k, it is once again superior though, but the thing with bonding procs is they are going to jump in large intervals, so your power is next going to jump up to 60k, rather then moving up slightly.
Thank you again, will still use AA. There is no really big dmg buff difference between my build and HG. The gameplay with a PET (warlock) and AA up 100% is really dynamic and fun.
Note, more power provides other buff than dmg, helping other class too.
However will have look on my build if i should use HG as main daily and see how it can be opimized. (through Righteous path)
Combined with Hastening Light you will be OP especially when u can cast AA and then encounter and AA again. Check your artifact off hand for boost on HL.
A few basic points: -There are ways to guarantee almost perfect HG uptime outside of PvP, and doesn't the AA buff disappear if you get struck? In the end, the difference between the two boils down to how they work. -Trans. Feytouched is wonky, like GoH. I would suggest treating is as more of a FotM enchant unless a dev make it explicit that the occasional massive damage boosts are the product of the enchant working as intended.
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This is a small guide of what i am building now: ( ps: VERY DANGEROUS )
Righteous #1 debuff #2 dps
Gear: High Prophet + Lostmauth set + Drow shirt/pants
Active Artifact: Vanguard Banner / DC sigil
Loadout: Bts, DG, Chains
Weapon Enchant: Plague fire / terror Note: Plaguefire triggers righteous Bear your SIns feat, and its debuff magnitude is probably higher than terror, i am testing terror now for comparison.
Stat priority: 1. Crit to 33% (1 crit per 3 hit) 2. ArP to 60% (maximise your debuff magnitude, will also increase your damage by a moderate margin) 3. Life steal to 10% with 3x lifesteal boon 4. Crit to 40% 5. Life steal to 15% 6. Continue stacking stats until you feel happy.
In short, ignore power and recovery. More crits means more heal and more fire of the gods, more dps and more debuffs. Recovery is useless under effect of avatar, and more divinity encounters > a few seconds faster cooldown. Arp for max debuff magnitude while lifesteal keep you up with max hp as long as you are attacking. I dont like lifesteal, but its really good when no healadin or V/F DC in your party. Augment pets is a must unless you are really rich to be BIS on your main.
To conclude: This is really a successful but yet very dangerous guide to use. It require good positioning and knowledge of what you are doing and what you are facing. New DC may feel this build is weird, and yes you are correct, we are building a new class with a new role in party. Dont expect such DC to heal 100% when in your party, this type of DC has extreme dps ability in soloing pug and in party content, given a good OP is protecting you.
@jazzfong, according to kaelac's formulas the armorpen of the person who applies the debuff has absolutely no bearing on the magnitude of the debuff. All a DC does is apply the debuff. When armor pen comes into play is when the attacker interacts with the debuff as they hit the mob and damage is calculated, as such the only armor pen that matters is the armor pen of the attacker.
So taking 60% RI as a DC is an interesting idea from the standpoint of "does doing more damage as a DC provide more utility to the party then faster cooldowns/power sharing via blessing of battle an weapons of light and annointed army". But having 60% RI will not provide better debuffs for your party, they are ones who need 60% RI to maximize the potential magnitude of the debuff.
I'm ony phone right now but I can provide a better explanation of this if I need to later on. Jazzfong, the link you provided in the first post where you asked this question is the specific section that contains the formula for how arp interacts with debuffs
Also, last I knew the off hand bonus for hastening light was broken. I have not tested this though
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
@jazzfong, the optimal power to crit ratio is based on crit severity. So how much crit to stack largely depends on how you've built crit severity. For instance it is quite possible to build up 100%+ crit severity without a vorpal which means that crit would out perform power up to 100% crit chance. The charts that dictate this do not even include the benefits of Lostmauth, Fire of the Gods, and Fire of the Gods triggering Bear your Sins. Point being stack crit to the moon if you can.
Get in a guild with at least stables 2. As an example my guild has barracks 2 (power) and stables 2(armor pen). I stack armor pen up to 40% resistance ignored and use the power boon except when facing bosses or pvp. Then i quickly switch my stronghold boon to armor pen to get the extra armor pen I need. The advantage here is you do not have to commit 2000 stat points that are only used in specific situations. Alternatively you can get in a guild with the crit severity boon; however, crit severity boon will only outperform power if your crit chance exceeds 76% (this is why most guilds won't have it, its BIS for only a limited number of builds). I would avoid using a feat on armor pen as you will find the crit gear and artifacts will load you up with significant amounts of armor pen as well.
Check the NWO Character Manager to get an idea how your stats will total up on your build. Also leverage the rti tool to help decide on which stats will provide the biggest benefit per point allocated.
Thanks guys for commenting. The only problem now i am facing is the inconsistency of party members in pug. With high prophet and without a good reliable tank i have to play extremely care with my build. Sometimes its just a few more % hp on boss but my team wiped. After i swap loadout to full healing, my team passed the final boss stage. This just makes me revise the objective of making my high end dps/debuff DC. Shall we provide debuff+healing rather than debuff+dps? Should we play high risk high reward or just play safe... I can carry my team if their dps is too low, but i will wipe if my team doesnt protect me well. IMO the high prophet set should be abandoned in the highest tier of PvE unless you have a good team setup.
@putzboy78, the reason of abandoning power and go for crit is because of my drow shirt/pants, our heroic feat repurpose soul and fire of the gods+lifesteal. I dont really follow the power vs crit chart now becuz as long as we have a high weapon damage from weapon and some crit we can apply FotG to all mobs and the dps output and healing are far more higher than building power. This is just my feeling when playing and i will parse my data with ACT if i am free.
putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
yeah and thats why your ilvl has little bearing on how to play. The gear/skill of your team determines how much healing you need. I only wear high prophet if there is a tank in party that can offset my dpsing abilities in climbing the threat chart. If you have a tank and foresight/divine glow won't keep him standing... they probably need a real healer.
FYI when i use lfg I advertise as a dps not buff/debuff or dc. I never queue for dungeons unless I have a friend asking for my help when they are mid dungeon (i.e. they know what i can and cannot do and think I can give them the edge they need). I will queue for skirmishes (except eToS because it does still need some synergy unless its a high dps party) and VT (it's really just a long skirmish at this point. No tanks/healers needed).
long time ago i played with Hastening Light, it is still bugged at lvl 4 ?
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
no
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
btw @illhora a little update to this thread, the power transferred by bonding stones does NOT get distributed by AA, although the power transferred by augments does. This means that unless you can achieve a high enough power without them, HG is pretty much always better.
For bosses i have re"tested" H.G and i was surprise to do more Dps than with AA... HG was even more efficent at Edemo. I presume it will resulte the same for the all group. I m a lucky to have the snail and the AP set and enough AP gain to almost have H.G 100% up.
Thanks to you thefabricant i have a lot to think about my build now
Thanks guys for commenting. The only problem now i am facing is the inconsistency of party members in pug. [...]This just makes me revise the objective of making my high end dps/debuff DC. Shall we provide debuff+healing rather than debuff+dps?
These questions are still unsolved for me, at least partially. Given the current status of the PvE, when I play with my guildies every content is a cakewalk and boring. That's why sometimes I use to join pug or teams of low IL alts from my guild, to squeeze my cleric to the limit and have challenge and fun, doing the things where my cleric can give its best.
There's a second parameter I've to take into account and it's related to my playstyle and the "level of comfort" I want to have: that's why I prefer to be a non dps-virtuous even in these days. I've opted to be a healer, a good protector and reliever and a decent buffer/debuffer.
Reading the different approaches and gaining knowledge from the clerics in this forum, I'm always tempted to move to something different, I've tried something different but at the end it's a hard compromise between what I get and what I miss when something is changed. Finally I've decided to live with what makes me feel comfortable and at ease..and that's my current build, flexible enough to range from low IL pug teams to high end groups. But that's me only and very personal.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
edited January 2016
There is nothing saying you can't be an elite healer at high ilvls. The only challenge is that healing has a relative cap in performance in PVE. But if playing with lower geared people and the challenge of aiding them in pursuit is the part of the game you enjoy, I say stick with it. As a righteous DC I can typically heal good enough to support even low geared groups in T2s as long as there is a GF using knights valor. Without passives I have no skill for hitting those kiting CWs, SWs, and ranged HRs. Since i don't spam AP, I cannot help low ilvl OPs keep perma-bubbled.
Honestly I still prefer to run with tact GFs over OPs, sure OPs mean no damage received thanks to the bubble but GF is still an awesome buffer.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
HG boosts dps more then AA.. until you get some outrageous power pools.. like closer to 50k+ Maybe 45k.. I forget the # that I tested it at start of mod 6.. but it wont compensate for not using HG until that point. My Dc hovers between 22k and 26k depending on if I use the guild boon or not.. then swings with buffs, Ive seen over 34k a couple of times and once over 40k But I dont have a HUGE power pool and slot azure tens in alot of slots and not radiants. I like to have crit closer to 9k still. I know maybe not current best meta practice.
I think half the people who use AA is because they like to constant spam it.. instead of the short break after 2-3 hgs you can pop out.. but of course very few bosses not dead at that point anyways.
I would say if you want use AA on mob packs and HG on bosses. mob mob packs die quick anyways.
AA is also short area of applyment, you can miss range. which make is utter trash if your SW, CW skipped it. Its like BTS vs DG .. bts will impact entire party regardless. bug DG only short area of applyment again. So you have to weight in your groups .. I prefer BTS at every boss, even when its fixed anyways. DG I use on mob packs.
I cant speak for other DCs, but i'm a buff apdc (virt / righteous) that spam AA. The main reason I run AA over HG is the 4 hits 90% DR immunity (on top of power ofc) that lets you / squishy classes zerg into any mob and run like a headless chicken and stay alive. We dont always run with tanks, and since AA is very spammable, u can basically do without, perhaps short of eGWD / eCC end bosses (never tested ofc).
Now, another very important thing is AA procs your weapon enchant on all the mobs in range. If u test dGlow out, u'll see that it doesnt proc your weapon enchant at all. Unless you're a DC that runs sunburst or actual dps encounters, u're better off using AA for that. My standard rotation is AA, dglow, 3x d-dglow (cast on players for 5% dmg buff), Empowered-BtS. On my free time i toss Healing word (i'm an apdc afterall). I tested out Terror vs PF, and terror gives me overall quicker runs.
Not forgetting that since i'm an apdc, AA > HG for my build since its more ap gain for my party (more hastening procs). I've seen CWs in my group toss 2-3 different dailies simultaneously before.
Perhaps your math will show you HG > AA. I'm not a number parser, and i test out skills just by swapping around and seeing how my runs go. I tried both, and my personal experience is that AA works better overall for runs where u can keep people clumped up, like in dungeons or tiamat. For stuff where people are spread out HG is best, hands down.
Here's the thing - AA is best for me because I'm specced for it. The immunity gives me time to aim my D-dglows (5% more damage each stack) and wheel's fire on my top dps (for some reason many people like running away from the fire buff idk why), it suits my trigger-happy playstyle since i like pulling mobs, courtesy of CN
There are many ways to run a top-end DC. Whether AA or HG works out better is very much a matter of playstyle and build. For HG to work better on my DC, i'd have to completely remake her and run her differently. I'm old school DC, and I see my DC's role as "quick, painless completion of runs" = (party survivability + buff / debuffs). That's how i built her. Perhaps a righteous DC running HG does more debuff, but I'm sure if u compare the average dungeon runtime it should be quite similar. I keep people alive via AA's immunity, added bonus of the power buff and ap gain, and it lets me spend my time keeping Emp-BtS up. I can safely say my uptime of E-BtS is above 80%.
Thanks guys for commenting. The only problem now i am facing is the inconsistency of party members in pug. With high prophet and without a good reliable tank i have to play extremely care with my build. Sometimes its just a few more % hp on boss but my team wiped. After i swap loadout to full healing, my team passed the final boss stage. This just makes me revise the objective of making my high end dps/debuff DC. Shall we provide debuff+healing rather than debuff+dps? Should we play high risk high reward or just play safe... I can carry my team if their dps is too low, but i will wipe if my team doesnt protect me well. IMO the high prophet set should be abandoned in the highest tier of PvE unless you have a good team setup.
I can do all pve in high prophet. Currently (in module 8), the only time in pve when I die first in a party is first phase e-demogorgon. Except for e-demog phase 1, there is no pve in Neverwinter in which I will die first in the party (while wearing high prophet), unless I am severely lagging or very tired or eating/drinking instead of dodging.
Lately, I rarely see any DC wearing high prophet, so I want to give some advice because I really want more DC to wear high prophet, especially when I am not playing a DC.
First thing .... try to find a guild with the stronghold hitpoint boon. My guild has rank 3 hitpoint boon. Defense boon is also good. I use defense boon on my paladin and use hitpoint boon on my DC in high prophet. My hitpoints (while solo at campfire) is currently 59k and 24.6% damage resistance.
For party survival and party buff/debuff, I highly recommend a Divine Oracle hybrid righteous/virtuous feat build.
Key Righteous Feats: Power of the Sun 5/5 Weapons of Light 5/5 Bear your Sins 5/5 Condeming gaze 5/5 Fire of the Gods 1/5 Avatar of the Divine (of course)
Key Virtuous Feats Have Faith 5/5 Gift of Haste 4/5
Alternately, GoH 5/5 and FotG 0/5, depending on how well you can put DoT on targets.
Key Gear: high prophet (of course) 3-piece lathandar set (this set is fantastic in e-demog especially in high prophet) soulforged Sigil of the Devoted
For 99% of pve, except when I solo and except for e-demog phase 1, I use:
break the spirit + divine glow + healing word brand of the sun + astral seal hallowed ground foresight prophetic action
If party need much healing (or a little more action points), then use empowered divine glow If party not need much healing, then use empowered break the spirit (on boss)
For e-demog phase 1: Everything is same, except I remove break the spirit and add Bastion of Health. For phase 2 and 3 e-demog, remove Bastion of Health and add break the spirit.
As many of you should already know, in e-demog phase 1, if no one aggros boss, then boss will attack healer. If boss focuses on me, then I will be completely dead in one or two minutes and then must release to campfire. But before I am completely dead, I will get two lathandar procs in, which are superb for healing everyone near me. If lathandar set proc while soulforged is active, then I will be alive again with all powers working. In e-demog, sometimes, I intentionally try to suicide myself, so that I can heal everyone and get all my powers working again.
By the way, I use the Priestess of Sehanine companion with 3 greater bonding Runestones. At level 30+, her +critical chance effect has approximately 50% duty cycle (50% uptime). My main complaint about her is when attacking boss, she often stands next to boss and is often one-shot killed. How can I increase her survivability? I need her alive in order to give +critical chance. I don't care much about companion's gift.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
How can I increase her survivability? I need her alive in order to give +critical chance. I don't care much about companion's gift.
use the bell, they are cheap and very handy for companions since pots rarely get used. I run with bell, coin, and pocket pet on my belt.
I do think that there isn't a lot of information about making/using companions. Like how useful is Armor Pen on a pet? How is their damage resistance ignored calculated. What is their crit severity. etc
Without that information most people mostly build companions for the stat bonuses they need not to top end their companion performance. That's okay for dps classes but for classes that rely on the companion to offset their dps more insight into companion min/maxing would be helpful.
I cant speak for other DCs, but i'm a buff apdc (virt / righteous) that spam AA. The main reason I run AA over HG is the 4 hits 90% DR immunity (on top of power ofc) that lets you / squishy classes zerg into any mob and run like a headless chicken and stay alive. We dont always run with tanks, and since AA is very spammable, u can basically do without, perhaps short of eGWD / eCC end bosses (never tested ofc).
Now, another very important thing is AA procs your weapon enchant on all the mobs in range. If u test dGlow out, u'll see that it doesnt proc your weapon enchant at all. Unless you're a DC that runs sunburst or actual dps encounters, u're better off using AA for that. My standard rotation is AA, dglow, 3x d-dglow (cast on players for 5% dmg buff), Empowered-BtS. On my free time i toss Healing word (i'm an apdc afterall). I tested out Terror vs PF, and terror gives me overall quicker runs.
Not forgetting that since i'm an apdc, AA > HG for my build since its more ap gain for my party (more hastening procs). I've seen CWs in my group toss 2-3 different dailies simultaneously before.
Perhaps your math will show you HG > AA. I'm not a number parser, and i test out skills just by swapping around and seeing how my runs go. I tried both, and my personal experience is that AA works better overall for runs where u can keep people clumped up, like in dungeons or tiamat. For stuff where people are spread out HG is best, hands down.[...]
I'm mostly the same. I'm my experience HG >AA in term of damages, but this just a part of the overall story. Imo AA/HG are very situational and they are both powerful dailies: I really love them and I can manage them as needed and following some patterns depending on the dungeon/skirmysh, team composition, avarage IL of the group, etc. So there is no min-max good for everything. I use your standard rotation too. AP spam is always appreciated but it's not an essential requirement to finish pve content in these days. I would simply say that if your team takes advantage of your choices, you're doing it right.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Guys, actually Flamestrike is better daily than HG/AA unless at least 2 of your dps is above 3k or with lostmauth set. I started to lose hope on pug when i see i am either first or second in dps. For those who go righteous dps/debuff build, the rule is plainly simple. If any of your dps teammates failed to do at least 3x your dps when you are using full debuff setup, just quit and requeue again. Still faster than original run from my experience.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
lol, i m righteous and i never q unless its something im comfortable carrying a team through, i.e. KR/VT
One more reason to use Hallowed Ground over AA is if you are running with a GF who is using ITF. The DR from HG is transferred through ITF into an extra group damage buff which far outweighs that you get from using AA. AA is still a great secondary daily though because of the control immunity it gives and it's low cast time for the oh HAMSTER moments. It can also stack with HG so it is worth using as a follow up daily if HG is still up.
One note with HG and ITF. From what i have found, for any DR buffs to pass through ITF and be given to the team the DR buff needs to be in place before ITF is cast. So that would be something to consider when placing down rotations. Tell your GF friends as well (same things goes for the DR from VM they get, cast VM before ITF to get the best boost for the team)
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
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lerapiso818Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 92Arc User
Guys, actually Flamestrike is better daily than HG/AA unless at least 2 of your dps is above 3k or with lostmauth set. I started to lose hope on pug when i see i am either first or second in dps. For those who go righteous dps/debuff build, the rule is plainly simple. If any of your dps teammates failed to do at least 3x your dps when you are using full debuff setup, just quit and requeue again. Still faster than original run from my experience.
HG is better than flamestrike for personnal DPS, so it's nearly always better to use HG over flamestrike in a dungeon run, even if you pug with low IL. The only case Flamestrike is better than HG is when mobs are about to die and you can't benefit from the full 15s of HG, so you can use flamestrike to burst them down instead.
btw @illhora a little update to this thread, the power transferred by bonding stones does NOT get distributed by AA, although the power transferred by augments does. This means that unless you can achieve a high enough power without them, HG is pretty much always better.
Only "Items" and "Features" power is transfered by AA, so augment and bonding power aren't transfered since they are both "Buffs" power, Battle Fervor work the same. However, Weapon of Light transfer 10% of your total power, so AA will transfer 55% of your items+features power if you play with this feat, starting a little chain reaction if you're playing with another DC with Weapon of Light.
One more reason to use Hallowed Ground over AA is if you are running with a GF who is using ITF. The DR from HG is transferred through ITF into an extra group damage buff which far outweighs that you get from using AA. AA is still a great secondary daily though because of the control immunity it gives and it's low cast time for the oh HAMSTER moments. It can also stack with HG so it is worth using as a follow up daily if HG is still up.
One note with HG and ITF. From what i have found, for any DR buffs to pass through ITF and be given to the team the DR buff needs to be in place before ITF is cast. So that would be something to consider when placing down rotations. Tell your GF friends as well (same things goes for the DR from VM they get, cast VM before ITF to get the best boost for the team)
I thought DR buffs that don't show up in the character sheet didn't add up to ITF damage buff, since it doesn't work with GF self DR buff, ty for the info. Do you know more interaction like this ? what about the other DC DR buffs ( foresight, DG, DA, AS ) ?
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
HG is better than flamestrike for personnal DPS, so it's nearly always better to use HG over flamestrike in a dungeon run, even if you pug with low IL. The only case Flamestrike is better than HG is when mobs are about to die and you can't benefit from the full 15s of HG, so you can use flamestrike to burst them down instead.
I would add flamestrikes use for clutch control to the list of advantages for flamestrike. Sometimes when there's a lot of trash around it can work to scatter the mobs and give people a chance to thing the heard.
FS and HG are both on my daily slot. If my team is weak, i will nuke all mobs down and proceed to next creep wave. In addition, my AP gain is high enough to cast multiple FS in HG up+down time, still depending on the situation imho. If you run a weaker pug as a full buff/debuff DC (your dmg buff and DR debuff shared with all of your teammates but your dps is the highest when you check the chart), use FS pls. Dont waste your time and your AP on your teammates. Carry your team then.
Comments
specially with AA is up all time in combat.
Anyway, thank you for sharing info like that TheFabricant, learnt much more about HG and AA.
Tested yersterday. It's possible, but the combined effect lasts 2-3 seconds and very circumstantial. It seems to me that Illhora has a very specialized setup where AA is an important part, otherwise I cannot explain the 2588 AP gain. At the end of the day, with such amount of power the difference between AA and HG should not be so high to clear a dungeon in few minutes.
@illhora: may I ask you 1 question? What is your overall AP gain % stat and how much the 2588 AP gain contribute to it?
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
i will not be playing during christmas time. Post you the details as soon as i m OL.
There is no really big dmg buff difference between my build and HG.
The gameplay with a PET (warlock) and AA up 100% is really dynamic and fun.
Note, more power provides other buff than dmg, helping other class too.
However will have look on my build if i should use HG as main daily and see how it can be opimized. (through Righteous path)
-There are ways to guarantee almost perfect HG uptime outside of PvP, and doesn't the AA buff disappear if you get struck? In the end, the difference between the two boils down to how they work.
-Trans. Feytouched is wonky, like GoH. I would suggest treating is as more of a FotM enchant unless a dev make it explicit that the occasional massive damage boosts are the product of the enchant working as intended.
Righteous #1 debuff #2 dps
Gear: High Prophet + Lostmauth set + Drow shirt/pants
Active Artifact: Vanguard Banner / DC sigil
Loadout: Bts, DG, Chains
Weapon Enchant: Plague fire / terror
Note: Plaguefire triggers righteous Bear your SIns feat, and its debuff magnitude is probably higher than terror, i am testing terror now for comparison.
Feat: http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=23ci:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13l3305:1000000:1000000:1yu5zbv&h=0&p=dvo
Note: Piercing light gives 10% Arp buff regardless on number of points invested, positive bug that still remains like negative bug on DG since few modules ago.
Stat priority:
1. Crit to 33% (1 crit per 3 hit)
2. ArP to 60% (maximise your debuff magnitude, will also increase your damage by a moderate margin)
3. Life steal to 10% with 3x lifesteal boon
4. Crit to 40%
5. Life steal to 15%
6. Continue stacking stats until you feel happy.
In short, ignore power and recovery. More crits means more heal and more fire of the gods, more dps and more debuffs. Recovery is useless under effect of avatar, and more divinity encounters > a few seconds faster cooldown. Arp for max debuff magnitude while lifesteal keep you up with max hp as long as you are attacking. I dont like lifesteal, but its really good when no healadin or V/F DC in your party. Augment pets is a must unless you are really rich to be BIS on your main.
To conclude: This is really a successful but yet very dangerous guide to use. It require good positioning and knowledge of what you are doing and what you are facing. New DC may feel this build is weird, and yes you are correct, we are building a new class with a new role in party. Dont expect such DC to heal 100% when in your party, this type of DC has extreme dps ability in soloing pug and in party content, given a good OP is protecting you.
Please comment to help me improve my build. TY.
So taking 60% RI as a DC is an interesting idea from the standpoint of "does doing more damage as a DC provide more utility to the party then faster cooldowns/power sharing via blessing of battle an weapons of light and annointed army". But having 60% RI will not provide better debuffs for your party, they are ones who need 60% RI to maximize the potential magnitude of the debuff.
I'm ony phone right now but I can provide a better explanation of this if I need to later on. Jazzfong, the link you provided in the first post where you asked this question is the specific section that contains the formula for how arp interacts with debuffs
Also, last I knew the off hand bonus for hastening light was broken. I have not tested this though
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Get in a guild with at least stables 2. As an example my guild has barracks 2 (power) and stables 2(armor pen). I stack armor pen up to 40% resistance ignored and use the power boon except when facing bosses or pvp. Then i quickly switch my stronghold boon to armor pen to get the extra armor pen I need. The advantage here is you do not have to commit 2000 stat points that are only used in specific situations. Alternatively you can get in a guild with the crit severity boon; however, crit severity boon will only outperform power if your crit chance exceeds 76% (this is why most guilds won't have it, its BIS for only a limited number of builds). I would avoid using a feat on armor pen as you will find the crit gear and artifacts will load you up with significant amounts of armor pen as well.
Check the NWO Character Manager to get an idea how your stats will total up on your build. Also leverage the rti tool to help decide on which stats will provide the biggest benefit per point allocated.
@putzboy78, the reason of abandoning power and go for crit is because of my drow shirt/pants, our heroic feat repurpose soul and fire of the gods+lifesteal. I dont really follow the power vs crit chart now becuz as long as we have a high weapon damage from weapon and some crit we can apply FotG to all mobs and the dps output and healing are far more higher than building power. This is just my feeling when playing and i will parse my data with ACT if i am free.
For those newbies, here is what we are talking about ACT:
http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13-advanced-combat-tracker-neverwinter/
Just follow intructions on it will do. Use it to check your data and your team dps/hps etc.
FYI when i use lfg I advertise as a dps not buff/debuff or dc. I never queue for dungeons unless I have a friend asking for my help when they are mid dungeon (i.e. they know what i can and cannot do and think I can give them the edge they need). I will queue for skirmishes (except eToS because it does still need some synergy unless its a high dps party) and VT (it's really just a long skirmish at this point. No tanks/healers needed).
I presume it will resulte the same for the all group. I m a lucky to have the snail and the AP set and enough AP gain to almost have H.G 100% up.
Thanks to you thefabricant i have a lot to think about my build now
Given the current status of the PvE, when I play with my guildies every content is a cakewalk and boring. That's why sometimes I use to join pug or teams of low IL alts from my guild, to squeeze my cleric to the limit and have challenge and fun, doing the things where my cleric can give its best.
There's a second parameter I've to take into account and it's related to my playstyle and the "level of comfort" I want to have: that's why I prefer to be a non dps-virtuous even in these days. I've opted to be a healer, a good protector and reliever and a decent buffer/debuffer.
Reading the different approaches and gaining knowledge from the clerics in this forum, I'm always tempted to move to something different, I've tried something different but at the end it's a hard compromise between what I get and what I miss when something is changed.
Finally I've decided to live with what makes me feel comfortable and at ease..and that's my current build, flexible enough to range from low IL pug teams to high end groups. But that's me only and very personal.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Honestly I still prefer to run with tact GFs over OPs, sure OPs mean no damage received thanks to the bubble but GF is still an awesome buffer.
Maybe 45k.. I forget the # that I tested it at start of mod 6.. but it wont compensate for not using HG until that point. My Dc hovers between 22k and 26k depending on if I use the guild boon or not.. then swings with buffs, Ive seen over 34k a couple of times and once over 40k But I dont have a HUGE power pool and slot azure tens in alot of slots and not radiants. I like to have crit closer to 9k still. I know maybe not current best meta practice.
I think half the people who use AA is because they like to constant spam it.. instead of the short break after 2-3 hgs you can pop out.. but of course very few bosses not dead at that point anyways.
I would say if you want use AA on mob packs and HG on bosses. mob mob packs die quick anyways.
AA is also short area of applyment, you can miss range. which make is utter trash if your SW, CW skipped it. Its like BTS vs DG .. bts will impact entire party regardless. bug DG only short area of applyment again. So you have to weight in your groups .. I prefer BTS at every boss, even when its fixed anyways. DG I use on mob packs.
Now, another very important thing is AA procs your weapon enchant on all the mobs in range. If u test dGlow out, u'll see that it doesnt proc your weapon enchant at all. Unless you're a DC that runs sunburst or actual dps encounters, u're better off using AA for that. My standard rotation is AA, dglow, 3x d-dglow (cast on players for 5% dmg buff), Empowered-BtS. On my free time i toss Healing word (i'm an apdc afterall). I tested out Terror vs PF, and terror gives me overall quicker runs.
Not forgetting that since i'm an apdc, AA > HG for my build since its more ap gain for my party (more hastening procs). I've seen CWs in my group toss 2-3 different dailies simultaneously before.
Perhaps your math will show you HG > AA. I'm not a number parser, and i test out skills just by swapping around and seeing how my runs go. I tried both, and my personal experience is that AA works better overall for runs where u can keep people clumped up, like in dungeons or tiamat. For stuff where people are spread out HG is best, hands down.
Here's the thing - AA is best for me because I'm specced for it. The immunity gives me time to aim my D-dglows (5% more damage each stack) and wheel's fire on my top dps (for some reason many people like running away from the fire buff idk why), it suits my trigger-happy playstyle since i like pulling mobs, courtesy of CN
There are many ways to run a top-end DC. Whether AA or HG works out better is very much a matter of playstyle and build. For HG to work better on my DC, i'd have to completely remake her and run her differently. I'm old school DC, and I see my DC's role as "quick, painless completion of runs" = (party survivability + buff / debuffs). That's how i built her. Perhaps a righteous DC running HG does more debuff, but I'm sure if u compare the average dungeon runtime it should be quite similar. I keep people alive via AA's immunity, added bonus of the power buff and ap gain, and it lets me spend my time keeping Emp-BtS up. I can safely say my uptime of E-BtS is above 80%.
Lately, I rarely see any DC wearing high prophet, so I want to give some advice because I really want more DC to wear high prophet, especially when I am not playing a DC.
First thing .... try to find a guild with the stronghold hitpoint boon. My guild has rank 3 hitpoint boon.
Defense boon is also good. I use defense boon on my paladin and use hitpoint boon on my DC in high prophet.
My hitpoints (while solo at campfire) is currently 59k and 24.6% damage resistance.
For party survival and party buff/debuff, I highly recommend a Divine Oracle hybrid righteous/virtuous feat build.
Key Righteous Feats:
Power of the Sun 5/5
Weapons of Light 5/5
Bear your Sins 5/5
Condeming gaze 5/5
Fire of the Gods 1/5
Avatar of the Divine (of course)
Key Virtuous Feats
Have Faith 5/5
Gift of Haste 4/5
Alternately, GoH 5/5 and FotG 0/5, depending on how well you can put DoT on targets.
Key Gear:
high prophet (of course)
3-piece lathandar set (this set is fantastic in e-demog especially in high prophet)
soulforged
Sigil of the Devoted
For 99% of pve, except when I solo and except for e-demog phase 1, I use:
break the spirit + divine glow + healing word
brand of the sun + astral seal
hallowed ground
foresight
prophetic action
If party need much healing (or a little more action points), then use empowered divine glow
If party not need much healing, then use empowered break the spirit (on boss)
For e-demog phase 1:
Everything is same, except I remove break the spirit and add Bastion of Health.
For phase 2 and 3 e-demog, remove Bastion of Health and add break the spirit.
As many of you should already know, in e-demog phase 1, if no one aggros boss, then boss will attack healer.
If boss focuses on me, then I will be completely dead in one or two minutes and then must release to campfire.
But before I am completely dead, I will get two lathandar procs in, which are superb for healing everyone near me.
If lathandar set proc while soulforged is active, then I will be alive again with all powers working.
In e-demog, sometimes, I intentionally try to suicide myself, so that I can heal everyone and get all my powers working again.
By the way, I use the Priestess of Sehanine companion with 3 greater bonding Runestones.
At level 30+, her +critical chance effect has approximately 50% duty cycle (50% uptime).
My main complaint about her is when attacking boss, she often stands next to boss and is often one-shot killed.
How can I increase her survivability? I need her alive in order to give +critical chance. I don't care much about companion's gift.
I do think that there isn't a lot of information about making/using companions. Like how useful is Armor Pen on a pet? How is their damage resistance ignored calculated. What is their crit severity. etc
Without that information most people mostly build companions for the stat bonuses they need not to top end their companion performance. That's okay for dps classes but for classes that rely on the companion to offset their dps more insight into companion min/maxing would be helpful.
I'm my experience HG >AA in term of damages, but this just a part of the overall story. Imo AA/HG are very situational and they are both powerful dailies: I really love them and I can manage them as needed and following some patterns depending on the dungeon/skirmysh, team composition, avarage IL of the group, etc. So there is no min-max good for everything.
I use your standard rotation too. AP spam is always appreciated but it's not an essential requirement to finish pve content in these days.
I would simply say that if your team takes advantage of your choices, you're doing it right.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
One note with HG and ITF. From what i have found, for any DR buffs to pass through ITF and be given to the team the DR buff needs to be in place before ITF is cast. So that would be something to consider when placing down rotations. Tell your GF friends as well (same things goes for the DR from VM they get, cast VM before ITF to get the best boost for the team)
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The only case Flamestrike is better than HG is when mobs are about to die and you can't benefit from the full 15s of HG, so you can use flamestrike to burst them down instead. Only "Items" and "Features" power is transfered by AA, so augment and bonding power aren't transfered since they are both "Buffs" power, Battle Fervor work the same. However, Weapon of Light transfer 10% of your total power, so AA will transfer 55% of your items+features power if you play with this feat, starting a little chain reaction if you're playing with another DC with Weapon of Light. I thought DR buffs that don't show up in the character sheet didn't add up to ITF damage buff, since it doesn't work with GF self DR buff, ty for the info.
Do you know more interaction like this ? what about the other DC DR buffs ( foresight, DG, DA, AS ) ?