High Vizier set in mod8

adriaen666

Hello,
anyone has been testing HV set in mod8?

smulch

I doubt it's worth using. You'd be dead all the time due to how little hp you'd have.

thefabricant

It depends, I personally do not use it anymore, but a friend of mine (playing a MoF ren complete debuff support build) still uses it. It is still a 30% dps buff for the team and if you (like him) generate very little aggro and only use your character for team play, it is awesome for the team. He hardly ever dies and we all happy with the damage buffs.

adriaen666

I'd like to use it just for boss battles, e.g. Demogorgon, dragons etc.

sangrine

In addition to low hitpoints, there is another major problem.
Many powers do not apply high vizier, or only apply one stack.
Search forum for more info.

niadan

And the powers that do most likely require you to be up close and personal. Overload slots do close to the same thing for personal dps and being dead is worse for the group than the extra dps from HV.

ironzerg79

It works in fights like the Dragonflight or Demogorgon where it doesn't matter if you die since you can just run back in. But for every day use, I'd probably forgo it in favor of the level 70 sets.

kieranmtorn

I use HV for the dragon runs. Generally don't die any more for it (just have to pay attention). As far as the debuff, check Grimah's Comprehensive CW guide. It documents the debuffs and what applies them. I like Chill Strike on Tab & Ice Knife, neither require me to be close and apply 3 stacks on a dragon. Also do remember to have 60% RI even when using HV.

adriaen666

So, actually I bought this set. Thanks for help.

jugger71

HV, chill strike on tab, spelltwisting and Ice Knife and/or Oppressive Force. Full 3 stacks 100% up time.

craolus

I did a couple of trial runs (XBOX) compared to the 135 gear and didn't notice much of a difference. I kept the debuffs stacked pretty constantly and had double pally bubble (so the low HP wansn't a factor). If there was much of a difference, I didn't notice it. I don't think the set is worth the inventory space to be honest.

romotheone

craolus said:

I did a couple of trial runs (XBOX) compared to the 135 gear and didn't notice much of a difference. I kept the debuffs stacked pretty constantly and had double pally bubble (so the low HP wansn't a factor). If there was much of a difference, I didn't notice it. I don't think the set is worth the inventory space to be honest.

You are wrong, the set is really valuable and makes a huge difference.

kieranmtorn

I'm just going to quote abaddon523's post, since dealing with Vanilla is so unpleasant:

abaddon523 said:

Testing out how the High Vizier set works is so trivially easy that by this point anyone who still refutes it can be safely classified as willfully ignorant. You don't even need to be running ACT to notice it.

Copy a character over to the test server.

Do a full respec.

Assign power points, but no feat points.

Equip the High Vizier set and go attack any enemy anywhere with magic missile or any other spell.

Look at the damage.

Then use Steal Time on them (which places 3 High Vizier stacks on the enemy) followed by magic missile.

Notice that the Magic Missile after Steal Time does ~30% more damage than the one before it.

Done.

It's as easy as game testing gets. Anyone disputing these results has not done this basic, fast, easy, simple test.



There you have it. Found a random Yeti, hit him with a magic missile for 651 base damage which was reduced to 581 damage (89% effectiveness) because of the Yeti's damage resistance (this character didn't have enough Armor Penetration to negate it all). Then I cast Steal Time. Then another Magic Missile. The second Magic Missile does 694 base damage but it does 806 actual damage (116% effectiveness). 116%/89% = 130%. That is a 30% increase in damage thanks to the High Vizier Debuff.

There you go. So easy a caveman can do it.

(note this was from mod 6, but it hasn't changed since then).

Unknown

This content has been removed.

thefabricant

ambrosianectar said:

I don't think anyone knowledgeable about the game questions the damage potential of HV.

I played in HV through 5 module launches.

Not a hater.



Today, HV can boost personal and party damage if work on a well-built, high IL "full-boon-toon" in Dragonflight, Demo or any boss fight.



But HV is not BiS.



For a new player or one with low to average gear and boons, HV is not a good choice.



You'll die a lot. And dead toons have a DPS of zero.

I got a friend who wears high vizier all the time, he is never dying and we do full runs of etos, eCC and eGWD with NO PALADIN and he doesn't die. It just depends on how well you play.

vespera33

I switched to HV "for good" some time ago, surviving when wearing it is not really a rocket science. Most things that kill you with 40-50k HP will kill you with 100k too. Use your dodges and don't stand in red - it's that simple.

At least it adds a little bit of challenge to otherwise stale content (not much but still...).

thefabricant

ambrosianectar said:

I don't think anyone knowledgeable about the game questions the damage potential of HV.

I played in HV through 5 module launches.

Not a hater.



Today, HV can boost personal and party damage if work on a well-built, high IL "full-boon-toon" in Dragonflight, Demo or any boss fight.



But HV is not BiS.



For a new player or one with low to average gear and boons, HV is not a good choice.



You'll die a lot. And dead toons have a DPS of zero.

Soooo...as to everyone saying you will die a lot wearing HV, here is an etos speedrun with my group door to door in 5 mins 43 seconds (5 mins 28 if you don't count periods where you do not have control of your character which is standard for proper speed runs).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gYPAdjssfk&feature=youtu.be
GF wearing knight's captain (level 60 set), both CW's wearing High Vizier set (level 60 set), dc wearing High Prophet set (level 60 set). This counts as proof that wearing level 60 sets is still completely viable?

blinxon

You didnt make it under 4 minutes? Shame on you...

thefabricant

blinxon said:

You didnt make it under 4 minutes? Shame on you...

We did do this:
https://youtu.be/d0e6DCZ7JYc
Another highlight of why HV is so good, along with other buffs/debuffs

ironzerg79

Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

thefabricant

ironzerg79 said:

Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

thefabricant

ambrosianectar said:

@thefabricant said:

"Soooo...as to everyone saying you will die a lot wearing HV, here is an etos speedrun with my group door to door in 5 mins 43 seconds (5 mins 28 if you don't count periods where you do not have control of your character which is standard for proper speed runs). "



No one said YOU would die.

You and your party are clearly highly skilled with high end gear.



(You weren't using lvl 60 weapons, were you?)



Please show us the video of an average geared party with one HV. That is the real test.

*shrugs* with an average geared party, I still wear the set and so does the dc, we just don't run from 1 door to the other.

zebular

I gave up on all my old level 60 set gear not long after Elemental Evil. It was the best move I made to make my characters more viable again. While it wasn't really needed to do so at level 61, after waiting until 65-68 on a few characters taught me that the sooner I get into more stat & hp gear, the better. I replace(d) all my purple set gear with level & spec appropriate blue gear from the auction house or stored loot from my other toons' adventures. I suggest everyone to do the same and embrace level 61-70 blue gear and the extra stats and hit points they give.

ironzerg79

thefabricant said:

ironzerg79 said:

Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

thefabricant

ironzerg79 said:

thefabricant said:

ironzerg79 said:

Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

It depends entirely on what you define as BiS and what you do most of the time. If you pug most of the time then no, you don't want to wear the set. If you run in premades, then it is more then likely BiS. In the case of high prophet, I would argue it is always BiS except when doing solo content, regardless of whether you are pugging or running premade, unless the group is downright abysmal you will never have aggro.

Something I do like about wearing these level 60 sets and what I suppose counts as a little bit of a disclaimer is it really teaches you how to manage aggro properly as well as how to dodge attacks, since you are very vulnerable when wearing the set and if you aren't careful, you get punished very quickly.

katamaster81899

thefabricant wrote: »

Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

It depends entirely on what you define as BiS and what you do most of the time. If you pug most of the time then no, you don't want to wear the set. If you run in premades, then it is more then likely BiS. In the case of high prophet, I would argue it is always BiS except when doing solo content, regardless of whether you are pugging or running premade, unless the group is downright abysmal you will never have aggro.

Something I do like about wearing these level 60 sets and what I suppose counts as a little bit of a disclaimer is it really teaches you how to manage aggro properly as well as how to dodge attacks, since you are very vulnerable when wearing the set and if you aren't careful, you get punished very quickly.

Basically this. I'd like to add that HP and HV sets are most certainly BiS in zerg situations such as tiamat, heralds, dragonflight, eDemo, and other big encounters with lots of players.​​

zebular

katamaster81899 said:

@zebular , after a certain poi

thefabricant wrote: »
Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

It depends entirely on what you define as BiS and what you do most of the time. If you pug most of the time then no, you don't want to wear the set. If you run in premades, then it is more then likely BiS. In the case of high prophet, I would argue it is always BiS except when doing solo content, regardless of whether you are pugging or running premade, unless the group is downright abysmal you will never have aggro.

Something I do like about wearing these level 60 sets and what I suppose counts as a little bit of a disclaimer is it really teaches you how to manage aggro properly as well as how to dodge attacks, since you are very vulnerable when wearing the set and if you aren't careful, you get punished very quickly.

Basically this. I'd like to add that HP and HV sets are most certainly BiS in zerg situations such as tiamat, heralds, dragonflight, eDemo, and other big encounters with lots of players.​​
Not sure why you felt the need to call me out specifically. Regardless, such is like 1% or less of the player-base. I'd loathe to see how it would be if the majority of players wore level 60 gear. Let's try not to make this out to anymore than it is, a preference of a extreme minority of players. My comments and anyone else's for that matter are not inaccurate. Think about it, really think about it and try and imagine if everyone wore level 60 gear. Basically, what you're doing by wearing level 60 gear is making yourself more of a burden for your group, despite any benefits. For those who can handle such and want to handle such, more power to ya.

I know I'd much rather have the peace of mind that the wizards in a group can handle their own instead of having to constantly wonder if they're going to survive that hit, or dodge that attack, or just make some unintended error and screw up and die all because they wanted to wear an outdated set and provide meager bonuses that really don't matter in the end. For if they were in end-game level 70 gear they'd be way more survivable and the fights might last an insubstantial amount of time longer if they made no mistakes. Big deal. I'd rather have that than less survivability. Perhaps wearing 60 gear gives one an ego boost, I don't know and don't care. I just find it foolish to forgo a massive amount of survivability for the sake of a meager amount more DPS.

katamaster81899

zebular wrote: »

@zebular , after a certain poi

thefabricant wrote: »
Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

It depends entirely on what you define as BiS and what you do most of the time. If you pug most of the time then no, you don't want to wear the set. If you run in premades, then it is more then likely BiS. In the case of high prophet, I would argue it is always BiS except when doing solo content, regardless of whether you are pugging or running premade, unless the group is downright abysmal you will never have aggro.

Something I do like about wearing these level 60 sets and what I suppose counts as a little bit of a disclaimer is it really teaches you how to manage aggro properly as well as how to dodge attacks, since you are very vulnerable when wearing the set and if you aren't careful, you get punished very quickly.

Basically this. I'd like to add that HP and HV sets are most certainly BiS in zerg situations such as tiamat, heralds, dragonflight, eDemo, and other big encounters with lots of players.
Not sure why you felt the need to call me out specifically. Regardless, such is like 1% or less of the player-base. I'd loathe to see how it would be if the majority of players wore level 60 gear. Let's try not to make this out to anymore than it is, a preference of a extreme minority of players. My comments and anyone else's for that matter are not inaccurate. Think about it, really think about it and try and imagine if everyone wore level 60 gear. Basically, what you're doing by wearing level 60 gear is making yourself more of a burden for your group, despite any benefits. For those who can handle such and want to handle such, more power to ya.

I know I'd much rather have the peace of mind that the wizards in a group can handle their own instead of having to constantly wonder if they're going to survive that hit, or dodge that attack, or just make some unintended error and screw up and die all because they wanted to wear an outdated set and provide meager bonuses that really don't matter in the end. For if they were in end-game level 70 gear they'd be way more survivable and the fights might last an insubstantial amount of time longer if they made no mistakes. Big deal. I'd rather have that than less survivability. Perhaps wearing 60 gear gives one an ego boost, I don't know and don't care. I just find it foolish to forgo a massive amount of survivability for the sake of a meager amount more DPS.

Sorry bout that, that was a saved draft from when I began to reply earlier but changed my mind because someone else already said what I wanted to say, I didn't notice that was still there :P

At any rate, I think the one factor you are forgetting to take into account is the stronghold boons - if a player uses the power boon (4k power) on offensive, and the HP boon (32k HP), that would pretty much make up for the lack of survivability when wearing the older sets. However, I suppose that these boons aren't exactly available to everyone yet (I don't even have the HP one yet either and my guilds barracks is still only rank 6:P). You are totally right about them only being BiS to a niche group :P​​

thefabricant

zebular said:

katamaster81899 said:

@zebular , after a certain poi

thefabricant wrote: »
Yeah, but with that kind of group, how long does it take to clear eToS without HV? It's not like putting on HV is taking a moderately geared party from 25 minutes to run eToS down to 5

True, but those mod 5 sets do take it down from 6 to 5 When you trying to beat a dungeon as rapidly as possible, every little boost counts!

Which is something you always have to be careful to clarify. If you're running with an elite group of players, all highly skilled and geared, HV becomes an option again.

But for the other 99.9% of the population, HV isn't a realistic option. That's why you can't necessarily consider HV "BiS", and certainly not for those who don't want to juggle two different equipment sets. And we should be careful to include that disclaimer...there's been a lot of raging lately about bad advice being given as fact, and this is one of those pieces of advice that's "bad" for most CW players, but leaks out as the new normal.

The people who understand how and why HV could be considered viable are also geared and experienced enough to use it.

It depends entirely on what you define as BiS and what you do most of the time. If you pug most of the time then no, you don't want to wear the set. If you run in premades, then it is more then likely BiS. In the case of high prophet, I would argue it is always BiS except when doing solo content, regardless of whether you are pugging or running premade, unless the group is downright abysmal you will never have aggro.

Something I do like about wearing these level 60 sets and what I suppose counts as a little bit of a disclaimer is it really teaches you how to manage aggro properly as well as how to dodge attacks, since you are very vulnerable when wearing the set and if you aren't careful, you get punished very quickly.

Basically this. I'd like to add that HP and HV sets are most certainly BiS in zerg situations such as tiamat, heralds, dragonflight, eDemo, and other big encounters with lots of players.​​

Not sure why you felt the need to call me out specifically. Regardless, such is like 1% or less of the player-base. I'd loathe to see how it would be if the majority of players wore level 60 gear. Let's try not to make this out to anymore than it is, a preference of a extreme minority of players. My comments and anyone else's for that matter are not inaccurate. Think about it, really think about it and try and imagine if everyone wore level 60 gear. Basically, what you're doing by wearing level 60 gear is making yourself more of a burden for your group, despite any benefits. For those who can handle such and want to handle such, more power to ya.

I know I'd much rather have the peace of mind that the wizards in a group can handle their own instead of having to constantly wonder if they're going to survive that hit, or dodge that attack, or just make some unintended error and screw up and die all because they wanted to wear an outdated set and provide meager bonuses that really don't matter in the end. For if they were in end-game level 70 gear they'd be way more survivable and the fights might last an insubstantial amount of time longer if they made no mistakes. Big deal. I'd rather have that than less survivability. Perhaps wearing 60 gear gives one an ego boost, I don't know and don't care. I just find it foolish to forgo a massive amount of survivability for the sake of a meager amount more DPS.


@zebular in t2 content, the 1 shots 1 shot you whether you are wearing HV set, or level 70 gear, there is no difference either way. The video above clearly illustrates that you can run recklessly through the t2 dungeons, provided you careful not to aggro stuff out of turn and provide the benefit of the HV set. 30% more damage is not a meager amount by any means and in fact in mod 6, when every single add was 1 shotting in t2's, the extra HP made absolutely no difference at all, but the extra damage, that did. It isn't about an ego boost, its about the fact that if you are playing as efficiently as possible, you will still wear the HV set.

And yes, I agree that it is a very small minority that can actually take advantage of it, but its definitely not something you should salvage or get rid of, as you may still have a use for it.

zekethesinner

Looks at his salvaged KC & HP sets... dammit!

(Sin)cerely
Kain