It's that time again: Epic Cragmire Crypts - Two-manned. Concerns about dungeon difficulty.

micky1p00

thefabricant said:

micky, firstly I agree its not a 40% dps boost to the whole group however... in terms of adding a certain percentage, it might compose 15% of his dps, but that doesn't mean it added 15%.
Say person 1 does 100 damage and 15% of that is elol, so he does 85 damage without elol. To get from 85 to 100 damage, you need to boost your dps by 18%. Furthermore, in the situations where it composes say 22% of a classes damage ( in the case of my wizard) its a 28% dps boost over not having it. In the case of other players where its a bigger percentage of their damage, its also a bigger dps increase. In fact, if the lostmauth set accounts for 33% or more of your damage, it is a flat out 50% or more dps increase over not having it.

Yes, you are correct (and zerg), I misread.

But still 15% is 17.6%,
20% -> 25% boost.
Correct me if I'm wrong but for 40% boost elol set should be 28.5% of total.
And for 30% it should be 23% of the total.
I don't think it's very common to get that high if at all.

Just to be clear, I'm all for nerfing it, even though it cost me 4mil in the good old days, it is a major issue in class balance in PvE.

But there are more fundamental issues, like class scaling with gear (for example feats that add power as % of your defense).
Some classes have, at some points have no useful stats to rise (PvE TR for example, recovery? not much of a use after your encounter CD faster than stealth, crit ? large part of it goes to waste do to the stealth mechanic)
Enchants & feats not consistent for powers (procing on some and not procing on others)
Damage loops (ICD is not the fix for this).
Things that have percentage but are really ICD (I have never seen ICD slapped as band-aid for so many things - it just doesn't work like that)

Nerfing the elol will make all the other things resurface and as such should be addressed as part of more thought out change.

thefabricant

micky1p00 said:

thefabricant said:

micky, firstly I agree its not a 40% dps boost to the whole group however... in terms of adding a certain percentage, it might compose 15% of his dps, but that doesn't mean it added 15%.
Say person 1 does 100 damage and 15% of that is elol, so he does 85 damage without elol. To get from 85 to 100 damage, you need to boost your dps by 18%. Furthermore, in the situations where it composes say 22% of a classes damage ( in the case of my wizard) its a 28% dps boost over not having it. In the case of other players where its a bigger percentage of their damage, its also a bigger dps increase. In fact, if the lostmauth set accounts for 33% or more of your damage, it is a flat out 50% or more dps increase over not having it.

Yes, you are correct, I misread, but still 15% is 17.6%, 20% -> 25% boost.
Correct me if I'm wrong but for 40% boost elol set should be 28.5% of total.
And for 30% it should be 23% of the total.
Have you seen someone get 23% of their total damage from elol set ?

Just to be clear, I'm all for nerfing it, even though it cost me 4mil in the good old days, is it a major issue in class balance in PvE.
But there are more fundamental issues, like class scaling with gear (for example feats that add power as % of your defense).
Some classes have, at some points have no useful stats to rise (PvE TR for example, recovery? not much of a use after your encounter CD faster than stealth, crit ? large part of it goes to waste do to the stealth mechanic)
Enchants & feats not consistent for powers (procing on some and not procing on others)
Damage loops (ICD is not the fix for this).
Things that have percentage but are really ICD (I have never seen ICD slapped as band-aid for so many things - it just doesn't work like that)

elol set is 22% of my damage on CW.

micky1p00

thefabricant said:

elol set is 22% of my damage on CW.

Let me edit the post few times. Writing is hard ! It's not smashing mobs.

ironzerg79

And let me apologize...too many Christmas beers this evening...forgot AP is 100:1%. But still, it only negates the armor that is there.

As @thefabricant has pointed out, the Lostmauth set is a ridiculously large portion of a persons DPS.

And @micky1p00 you're also right on your own point. The power of the Lostmauth set indeed masks the shortcomings of many classes, as well as accentuating the power of others. That's why until it's brought back in line (3% of your total damage IMHO), a lot of other class balance issues will be masked by it's potency.

But I don't want to play a game where an entire build can come down to "Do you own the Lostmauth set?"

Anyone who's parsing a "max DPS" build that's dependent on having the Lostmauth set should be ashamed of themselves. And there's plenty of them.

lerapiso818

> Neverwinter
> Skilled

rayrdan

deleted

katbozejziemi

ironzerg79 said:

3) Action Point gain is pretty ridiculous at this point, as well. Allowing most classes the possibility of always being under the effects of a daily power is broken as well. The most notable example is the OP's permabubble, which combined with other effects essentially makes a party immune to damage. We know the GF was nerfed to not gain AP while under the effects of certain dailies. I think this should probably extend to all classes and all dailies.

Maybe if they actually made it so that you gain less/no AP for a certain amount of time after using a daily in the first place, instead of just **** over 2 classes this wouldn't have ever happened.
Oh but then it would also have affected CW so we couldn't have had that.

ironzerg79 said:

The more powerful characters become, the more damage the Lostmauth set will do. That's a major part of the problem.

This exactly the same as it is with the Vorpal enchantment, and that never got addressed, so...

blinxon said:

So you did nothing. Ok. Thx for your polite answer.

I don't have to prove anything to a nobody like you. The fact that you think anything's changed only proves you haven't even been playing this game during mod 5.

blinxon

katbozejziemi said:

I don't have to prove anything to a nobody like you.

Cuzz you cant.

katbozejziemi said:

The fact that you think anything's changed only proves you haven't even been playing this game during mod 5.

I play since beta. Got a lot ppl ingame they can proofe it, if you want. So?

jaegernl

Ladies, ladies! You're both pretty!

micky1p00

jaegernl said:

Ladies, ladies! You're both pretty!

But Isaac Isaac on the wall, who of them is the fairest of them all ?

cstrife16

If anyone could have done this, it would have been you two

Strife x

dzaims

Perhaps the new rings dropping in the demonic HEs is a shift away from infinite stat inflation. It is cool, in its own way, magic rings that have one special property. Then, they could retire the current stat-bonus rings (better save up some, they'll be worth loads on the AD market). The only problem I see with that is introducing new game mechanics when so many old ones are still broken does seem a little foolhardy.

xveganrox

First off, congrats. Second off - I agree with what you're saying about increasing rewards, but not increasing risks. CC is an IL 2000 dungeon. My guild is 95% people who are IL 1600-2400, who haven't been playing for years and might never be BiS. As a result, when we run dungeons our average IL is usually only 200 or so above the mIL. eCC with five people at around 2100-2300 is well above the minimum level, but is very difficult. There's a pretty high chance of death and even party wipes if anyone screws up. The ML 2000 dungeons sometimes take us over an hour, and seem perfectly appropriate for our level. On the other hand, the loot drops are worthless, and we all know we could just farm dHEs and do much, much better.

I think that the risk/reward ratio is way off, but I don't think making the dungeons much harder and making it so there is less content available for people who aren't 2800+ is the answer. I hope that when they bring back the dungeons they will put them at 2400, 2800, and even 3200, so that higher level players get higher challenges (with higher rewards!) while leaving the people at 2000-2200 something to do, and hopefully improving those as well.