Here is a novel idea...just bear with me here......play the game and enjoy? Way too many of you take this game to serious, that's all it is, a game. They should have never implemented the coffer log in the first place, and now they did some GL still HAMSTER and moan about it. This is not life, it is a game, we would all do well to remember that.
To at least a small degree, I have to disagree with you, here: Yes, this is a game and should be fun. At the same time, a Stronghold is a cooperative effort. It is implicit within the design, that each member of the guild should be contributing toward its development. That being said, I make no expectations that everybody should contribute equally - but all members should contribute *something*.
If I could make some changes to the SH implementation, I'd *not* require ADs or gems/enchants, as part of the progression. I'd also only require the PvP shards ONLY for the PvP structures, and never for general progression.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
While I am on the side of not making Guildies give anything if they do not want too, I too would like the guild Roster to REflect TOTAL guild marks per character. So I do not have to track these things manually on a daily basis. IT is just another decision making tool like tracking Last time logged in.
Shouldn't it reflect account totals? I have an older character who had much to contribute and a newer character who does what he can daily. I wouldn't want my newer character penalized for being the pauper.
There is another aspect of having a better way to see who donated. We have people in our guild who did not know about the coffer. They were doing quests in Stronghold but had no idea what to do with vouchers etc.
Only due to the log we got aware of that and were able to explain to them how the coffer works. But due to the limits of the log there may still be people not knowing what to do, especially those players only playing once or twice a week.
I don't understand how adding a better log would make this game less fun... or turn it into work. It's not the tools that would do that. It's the people. If you are in a guild were the leaders put pressure on the players to work on the stronghold they do that regardless of having a log.
On the other hand there are those players who do not care about others. They only take, never give. Running a guild were we help each other and work together, we cannot tolerate that. It's matter of respect. You get help, therefore you help. What's the point of being in a guild if you don't care about it at all?
So, Im guessing that the ones that are complaining about having someone watching what they're donating are the same ones who wont do at least some influence runs to help with the awful grind the guild is going thru but are happy with the boons and access to gear. With this restriction on numbers of accts this has begun to become an issue in our guild. Its enough that most new players you have in your guild won't donate ToD currency because they're holding on to it for their boons. And then wont even add anything to coffer except the shards we dont need. There is a reason that some may want a way to tell whos doing what and whos leeching. And our guild is casual to say the least. But with the getting cooked down in pvp by people with GH8 and the drains and lionsmane gear, it becomes more urgent to try and help guild progress its stronghold. Its the name of the mod. If you want to casually play the game and contribute whenever you feel like and think that people are dicks for expecting you to help your guildies then join that guy aboves guild that doesnt care about progressing.
There are those who have exploited. There are those who invocation and leadership farm a large roster of characters. There are those who simply have a lot of time in a day to play a single character in the game and use it wisely. Many of these people have had perfect enchants and artifacts maxed for quite a while.
Then there are those who have very little time to play. Those who are new to the game. Those actually playing a large roster of characters. People who desperately need RP just to catch up to the first group to be able to participate in game content with them.
There are also solo players who have been in guilds for a long time who will contribute to a coffer to earn the guild access to items they'll probably never even qualify for due to their playing style.
All a detailed coffer contribution roster would accomplish is the demonization of all those people. Guild leadership is typically in the first group and they'd be pronouncing members deficient for not having maxed gear and needing RP desperately to catch up or for not having the same playing style as them.
In other words by definition its use would be for belittling and bullying people over things they can't control by people who feel a perverse need to control other people even in the context of a game which is literally supposed to be 'play'.
Magenubbie wrote: 'You're free to want to use it, but that doesn't change the fact it's a huge breach of privacy. It's simply none of your business how much currency a player has. A GL is not a tax collector and not my wife. I don't owe my GL -or anyone else in the game for that matter- any explanation about my (lack of) wealth, where or how I came by it or where I spend it on.'
Excellent point. What's next? Giving guild leaders access to our bank statements so they can decide whether we're spending enough of our RL cash on coffer boosters from the Zen store? Just because a currency is virtual doesn't mean it should be any less private.
It's because everything about SH is inferior to STOs implementation because, clearly, there was not useful or effective interaction between the two teams despite that SH was basically a redo on their star base implementation. Compared to star bases, SH is a pathetic attempt that does little more than allow them to put "guild halls" on their propaganda. Star bases were full featured and well thought out, Strongholds... Aren't. This small feature is a case in point. Star bases do this - provides totals per character in a leaderboard style. It's incredibly useful to reward contributiors. Yes, it can be used abusively but a person should just quit abusive guilds flat, there's plenty good ones that aren't, so that's no good argument against this type of feature.
The sad part is that Neverwinter is either an afterthought or Cryptic is a mere shadow of what it once was... Or both. Either way, we (well you, since I haven't actively played in a while now) are the real victims here.
Here's hoping they can muster some better and more effective effort for Underdark.
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
Nice conversation and all, BUT the problem is that Guild Log is NOT working as it should. It would be better if it was not working at all. You forced to all of us the creation of HUGE 150 member guilds and you took away the ONLY tool that could help MANAGE them, HOW IMMATURE, UNPROFESSIONAL and DANGEROUS is this? I could bang my head everyday 100 times against the wall with your decisions. Furthermore, this amateur approach on almost every aspect of the game is astonishing the least. And then Cryptic expects people to pay real money for the game. Its so mind boggling that even with this amateur behavior NW still stays alive. Cryptic, you have done everything possible to destroy this franchise and you keep doing dangerously amateur mistakes. Is ANYONE there who can act like a professional? IS there really?
i think the whole tool is abusive and should not be in game. A guild should be made by active like minded people which day by day works toward a goal, one day common, one day personal. The people not contributing are easy to detect: they dont talk in chat, if they do they are **rks, they dont partecipate in any shared activity. Those people should be kicked anyways. Another thing, guild leaders should remember is that they dont own the guild but viceversa. I think an even more intrusive control may just discourage donating people too since they would feel forced to do it every single day. While an increased control would however represents a good control of guildies activity toward the greater good of the guild, we should consider that stronghold farming is not the only way to contribute: for example a player always trying to create parties for pvp, dungeons, sh pvp shouldnt have its own board contribution? isnt it helpful enough to the guild?
in short being able to see how much everyone is contributing in a given time is like if in a family we are counting how many times i did the grocery shopping compared to other family members or how much your daughter is spending compared to your son and let does datas being public. No, the goal is keep going steadily day by day and when things stop working? the problem arent 2-3 players but your entire guild.
in the end im ok with everything but its so much lacking of ethics that im sure it will end up creating only problems and a unhealthy atmosphere
0
torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
shining light on all the numbers is the only healthy thing to do. =P
transparency.
If your guild kicks you because your contribution level isnt "enough", then you dont want to be in that guild!
Find a guild whose expectations match your contribution levels!
I can't believe this is even being debated.
Of COURSE guilds need a tool to track donations. Guilds are mini corporations. =p They have banks, heirarchy, interpersonal communications(guild mail), of course they need balance sheets.
If you dont like the idea of your efforts being tracked, and you think it feels like a "job" then maybe you shouldn't be in a guild that "works" .. You can join one of the many welfare guilds and you won't be expected to donate anything.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
I would like to have the total guild marks donated by character as well. As a small guild of people who play occasionally, we do not require anyone to donate to the coffer, we do however take it into consideration as a factor in promoting members within the guild. At the moment unless you check it every day, and record contributions yourself, this is quite difficult. I do enjoy the game and don't see this as a huge issue. It would be a big plus though for us to be able to monitor contributions, and also to provide recognition for people in the guild who contribute a lot. This is not a moan, I enjoy the game.
I agree on the demands aspect however the Guild Marks are a good motivator for extra work towards the SH. Dragonflight gear needs a lot of marks, as well as some of the other consumables which are nice as well. I have several alts in my guild and try to do the 400 influence on them all it's only like 30-45minutes pretty much those HEs melt before most players anyhow.
Nobody in my guild demands it out of me and I appreciate that a lot, the GMotD may mention what they are short on towards a task but nothing demanded. You would be surprised how much people will jump in when they see others doing the same.
I was in one guild a single day and received a hostile email from the Guild leader that was sent to the whole guild basically demanding 400 influence from all members daily. So I left that guild after reading that. This is a game and like others have stated it's supposed to be fun.
Comments
If I could make some changes to the SH implementation, I'd *not* require ADs or gems/enchants, as part of the progression. I'd also only require the PvP shards ONLY for the PvP structures, and never for general progression.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Only due to the log we got aware of that and were able to explain to them how the coffer works. But due to the limits of the log there may still be people not knowing what to do, especially those players only playing once or twice a week.
On the other hand there are those players who do not care about others. They only take, never give. Running a guild were we help each other and work together, we cannot tolerate that. It's matter of respect. You get help, therefore you help. What's the point of being in a guild if you don't care about it at all?
Then there are those who have very little time to play. Those who are new to the game. Those actually playing a large roster of characters. People who desperately need RP just to catch up to the first group to be able to participate in game content with them.
There are also solo players who have been in guilds for a long time who will contribute to a coffer to earn the guild access to items they'll probably never even qualify for due to their playing style.
All a detailed coffer contribution roster would accomplish is the demonization of all those people. Guild leadership is typically in the first group and they'd be pronouncing members deficient for not having maxed gear and needing RP desperately to catch up or for not having the same playing style as them.
In other words by definition its use would be for belittling and bullying people over things they can't control by people who feel a perverse need to control other people even in the context of a game which is literally supposed to be 'play'.
Excellent point. What's next? Giving guild leaders access to our bank statements so they can decide whether we're spending enough of our RL cash on coffer boosters from the Zen store? Just because a currency is virtual doesn't mean it should be any less private.
The sad part is that Neverwinter is either an afterthought or Cryptic is a mere shadow of what it once was... Or both. Either way, we (well you, since I haven't actively played in a while now) are the real victims here.
Here's hoping they can muster some better and more effective effort for Underdark.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Furthermore, this amateur approach on almost every aspect of the game is astonishing the least. And then Cryptic expects people to pay real money for the game. Its so mind boggling that even with this amateur behavior NW still stays alive. Cryptic, you have done everything possible to destroy this franchise and you keep doing dangerously amateur mistakes. Is ANYONE there who can act like a professional? IS there really?
A guild should be made by active like minded people which day by day works toward a goal, one day common, one day personal. The people not contributing are easy to detect: they dont talk in chat, if they do they are **rks, they dont partecipate in any shared activity. Those people should be kicked anyways.
Another thing, guild leaders should remember is that they dont own the guild but viceversa.
I think an even more intrusive control may just discourage donating people too since they would feel forced to do it every single day.
While an increased control would however represents a good control of guildies activity toward the greater good of the guild, we should consider that stronghold farming is not the only way to contribute: for example a player always trying to create parties for pvp, dungeons, sh pvp shouldnt have its own board contribution? isnt it helpful enough to the guild?
in short being able to see how much everyone is contributing in a given time is like if in a family we are counting how many times i did the grocery shopping compared to other family members or how much your daughter is spending compared to your son and let does datas being public. No, the goal is keep going steadily day by day and when things stop working? the problem arent 2-3 players but your entire guild.
in the end im ok with everything but its so much lacking of ethics that im sure it will end up creating only problems and a unhealthy atmosphere
transparency.
If your guild kicks you because your contribution level isnt "enough", then you dont want to be in that guild!
Find a guild whose expectations match your contribution levels!
I can't believe this is even being debated.
Of COURSE guilds need a tool to track donations. Guilds are mini corporations. =p They have banks, heirarchy, interpersonal communications(guild mail), of course they need balance sheets.
If you dont like the idea of your efforts being tracked, and you think it feels like a "job" then maybe you shouldn't be in a guild that "works" .. You can join one of the many welfare guilds and you won't be expected to donate anything.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Nobody in my guild demands it out of me and I appreciate that a lot, the GMotD may mention what they are short on towards a task but nothing demanded. You would be surprised how much people will jump in when they see others doing the same.
I was in one guild a single day and received a hostile email from the Guild leader that was sent to the whole guild basically demanding 400 influence from all members daily. So I left that guild after reading that. This is a game and like others have stated it's supposed to be fun.