Yes it's quite unreal that after all these years and so many hours sunk in the game there are still things that slipped our mind. That's good, that' very good because it keeps us entertained and makes us still want to play to dig deeper.
I only recently discovered how effective it is to slot Shield Warrior Wrath and get those stacks going while using standard solo play setup. When I added ITF to the mix + made a Conq/Protector hybrid...let's just say I again fully enjoy solo play with my GF.
It was hard playing as a pure Protector because of low damage, but now? holy molly! it's a completely different experience.
Next thing, poke around using bondings, I see me spending many hours testing their potential. It's a well known fact they're good? yeah maybe, but I still like to test it myself.
The beauty of bondings is that the stats buffed depend of what gear we give to our companion. So we can have one set for DR/ITF madness !!!! with Defender gear, and another Avenger loadout for pure DPS epicness !!!!!!
mwhahahhaha *evil laugh*
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
nice guide. I'd like to suggest an alternative build by going protector and up to stand united in tactician would be better as a buffer, since tactician capstone isn't really so good (especially if you have ap cloak + snail). you get to hold up your shield longer AND debuff enemies -20%,
the +5% DR from knights valor feat may even work with into the fray, but i havent tested it myself.
nice guide. I'd like to suggest an alternative build by going protector and up to stand united in tactician would be better as a buffer, since tactician capstone isn't really so good (especially if you have ap cloak + snail). you get to hold up your shield longer AND debuff enemies -20%,
the +5% DR from knights valor feat may even work with into the fray, but i havent tested it myself.
I've tried it, it doesn't. I actually use this exact build you suggested. It is perfect for dragon flight runs.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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whymushroomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
nice guide. I'd like to suggest an alternative build by going protector and up to stand united in tactician would be better as a buffer, since tactician capstone isn't really so good (especially if you have ap cloak + snail). you get to hold up your shield longer AND debuff enemies -20%,
the +5% DR from knights valor feat may even work with into the fray, but i havent tested it myself.
The damage debuff from Iron Guard is not necessary, and also no more stamina is needed. Protector is a solid choice for new GFs when the struggle to stay alive. But when you have some decent gear, you don't need it anymore. Then I prefer to squeeze out a little more AP gain.
+5% DR from feats doesn't add up for Into the Fray buff. Only stats visible in your character sheet is converted into buffs with Into the Fray.
Then some minor additions: - Gear: Mod 8 Twisted main/off hand: I tested it today. Even with running Knight's Valor, and without Guarded Assault, I am maxed on power stacks entire dungeons. It's bad to stack defense: no buffer set. It is good for solo content tho. - Companions: Frost Mimic: adds 100/190/300 defense = 0.25/0.5/0.75% added DR = party buff - Companions: Man at Arms: adds 100/190/300 defense = 0.25/0.5/0.75% added DR =party buff
What all abilities are affecting the into the frey buff?
Abilities that affect Into the Fray: -AC/Defense -Vilain's Menace -Sigil of the Oathbound Paladin -Astral Shield (DC power) -Exaltation (DC power) -Hollowed Ground (DC power)
Abilities that do not affect Into the Fray: -Lunging Strike -Knight Valor -Knight Valor with Brawling Warrior -Iron Warrior -Line Breaker Assault -Steel Defense with the relevant Artifact Class feature -Negation Enchantment -Ring of Sieging
question here, Since Villian's Menace boosts Into the Fray, then would not that be a better choice as a standard daily in a dungeon? It has a higher target cap, larger AoE, give CC immunity. Villains also stacks (the growing size does at least, i have not tested the DR aspect). It isn't going to proc crushing pin but you get much better damage boost via the DR going into ITF, it lasts a lot longer as well. Villains does have a long cast time but you can animation cancel it half way through to get the full effect and be able to go back to blocking/attacking.
Marks are worth 8% each for party members by the way, so tab mark + ET mark is +16% damage (an IV build can also stack the Threatening Rush mark for a 3rd mark). GWF daring shout adds to this as well
I just have a GF as an alt so i don't spend a lot of time testing my own build, so thank you for putting this together
Post edited by scathias on
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
0
whymushroomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
question here, Since Villian's Menace boosts Into the Fray, then would not that be a better choice as a standard daily in a dungeon? It has a higher target cap, larger AoE, give CC immunity. Villains also stacks (the growing size does at least, i have not tested the DR aspect). It isn't going to proc crushing pin but you get much better damage boost via the DR going into ITF, it lasts a lot longer as well. Villains does have a long cast time but you can animation cancel it half way through to get the full effect and be able to go back to blocking/attacking.
You're right, VM is the better choice in most situations. I don't care about personal damage at all, but VM indirect buff is great. I wasn't aware of this until recently, so I didn't update the suggested rotations yet. But with importance of ITF buff in mind, you can figure it out yourself I guess.
I just went and tested that myself with ACT and you are right, multiple marks do not stack anymore I wonder when that changed, because multiple marks definitely used to stack
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Hey guys another question, does the artifact off hand class feature for guarded assault count as a control power?
Well it activate trample the fallen?
I'm on Xbox, and don't have access to a preview server to test this stuff, and testing live can be very expensive.
Please look into it and let me know, I appreciate it!
0
whymushroomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
edited January 2016
Control abilities that proc Crushing Pin: -Guarding with Guarded Assault feat and ACF active -Terrifying Impact (stackable with other procs) -Knee Breaker -Griffon's Wrath -Bull Charge -Indomitable Strength -Frontline Surge -Flourish -Crescendo
Control abilities that do not proc Crushing Pin -Anvil of Doom with Terrifying Menace feat
Crushing Pin can be refreshed constantly. It does not stack with stacks you produced yourself, except procs from Terrifying Impact. Crushing Pin does stack with procs from other players.
Hey guys another question, does the artifact off hand class feature for guarded assault count as a control power?
Well it activate trample the fallen?
As I don't use ACT myself, I can't test if the Tramle of the Fallen buff is applied. However, I can confirm Guarding with Guarded Assault feat and ACF active counts as a CC power, as it does proc Crushing Pin.
What's the point of stacking deflection for a GF? we can't deflect while blocking, it's seems like a very wasted stat for us, we live behind our shield.
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whymushroomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
What's the point of stacking deflection for a GF? we can't deflect while blocking, it's seems like a very wasted stat for us, we live behind our shield.
Seeking for Deflection in your gear is a nice stat to stack in the beginning. I think new GFs struggle to survive, then extra help is welcome. Guard protects you only from damage in front of you. When you're new, you can't read NPC's movements well. Also positioning yourself will be off. This both leads to situation you're out of Stamina.
Personally, I mostly play with the Knight Captain set with 60k to 70k HP. I don't have much Deflection (1k). And I get only some extra Stamina from some boons (I do hit the 80% Damage Reduction cap fast tho). I never liked playing with the passive Shield Talent, it is a waste of a useful passive slot. Knight Valor is almost always slotted. I don't live behind my shield. I apply buffs as often as possible. Only when I expect big hits, I use my shield. Positioning and timing are in the end more important to survival than stats.
Thank you for a very helpful guide. I have a question on positioning - can you clarify ideal positioning when using KV and your shield. For example, when you fight a boss . Do you want to run past the boss then turn and face him so the boss is between you and your allies? Obviously, this gives combat advantage, but are you maximizing protection of allies?
GF have the benefit of being able to give CA to the whole party simply by using your tab mark on the boss.
Turning the boss so that it is not facing the rest of your party is a very good tactic for party protection as that will mean his special attacks are not hitting them. You don't need to run past the boss to do this though, just angle it to the side and your party can move over a bit as well
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Thanks for the clarification - I get confused when I see people say keep the shield in the red zone (directed to boss - this makes sense) or between boss and players (which could put players behind me, which doesn't make sense for melee) - just seems like there is all sorts of info out there. And yes, I understand I don't need to be positioning to get combat advantage, it is just an extra with marks and if the boss is focused on me and others surround.
I just want to add, that Enforced Threat also adds the mark that gives Combat Advantage. So now matter what is the method of applying it, it still works.
CA gives a big damage boost so it's always good to mark as many targets as possible. AFAIK ET doesn't have a target cap so it should be our no 1 encounter in party play (and solo play also)
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
You need to use VM first before you cast ITF. Any sources of DR that you get after you cast ITF don't transfer anymore, but if you cast it first then it works. So wait for your DC to cast hallowed ground before you use ITF as well
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
i am playing gf swordmaster tactician. i am using for single target ( solo and bosses) anvil-lunging-into the fray and dailies menace and fighters recovery. FOR aoe i am using enforced threat lunging and into the fray and the same dailies.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2016
I do not play GF, this post is purely about bonding stones. Kain recently got me to test all the bonding proccers with 3 defense slots for his gf and the old white cleric (the female one) is the fastest bonding proccer. Also, it is possible to get more then 3 stacks with certain companions without them dying if they happen to multiproc the stones. The intellect devourer for example can multi proc, or the lizardfolk shaman. However, both of those are slow attackers and so their potential to multi proc does not make up for their slower attacks then the cleric. (which averages 3 stacks)
For reference, the 3 defense slot companions I tested for him were: Lizardfolk shaman Rimefire Golem Cleric Disciple (the best proccer) Intellect devourer Neverember guard
I didn't notice any other 3 defense slot companions but if you know of any others and want me to test them just say so
whymushroomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
edited January 2016
About positioning. You should find this out yourself mainly. Learning mob's animations, and anticipating on their movements and attacks is best way to survive. Some hits you can take without guarding, with some you want to use your guard. Positioning has nothing to do with Combat Advantage (therefore use your marks).
I guess most important running with Knight’s Valor, is that you as tank should pull groups. Then you have agro from the start of a fight. If you run out of HP because of KV damage, your soulforged enchantment doesn’t activate. With longer fights, the dps group stands on one side of the mobs, and I will stand on the other side. Then my party gets less damage. Surviving direct hits from mobs is easier, because you can better anticipate on their attacks.
With some boss fights you shouldn’t use KV at all (Lostmouth, Valindra, Malabog’s Castle). You’re party should just learn to dodge.
Villain’s Menace & Into the Fray I tested it again like @blidfury11 described. He’s right, VM doesn’t add to party buff via ITF. It only provides a personal buff. Another weird mechanic. Thanks for pointing this out.
Pets and Bonding Enchantments I’m curious about your tests results. If I believe neverwinter.gamepedia.com, the Neverember Guard should be the fastest attacker with three defensive slots:
New Gear With the new lockbox, there is new best-in-slot gear for companions: items of Adorable Rolls. This grants 521 defense, 348 deflection and has two defense slots. Slotting three of these items gives you about 1k more defense than the Loyal Defender items per stack of companion’s gift.
About positioning. You should find this out yourself mainly. Learning mob's animations, and anticipating on their movements and attacks is best way to survive. Some hits you can take without guarding, with some you want to use your guard. Positioning has nothing to do with Combat Advantage (therefore use your marks).
I guess most important running with Knight’s Valor, is that you as tank should pull groups. Then you have agro from the start of a fight. If you run out of HP because of KV damage, your soulforged enchantment doesn’t activate. With longer fights, the dps group stands on one side of the mobs, and I will stand on the other side. Then my party gets less damage. Surviving direct hits from mobs is easier, because you can better anticipate on their attacks.
With some boss fights you shouldn’t use KV at all (Lostmouth, Valindra, Malabog’s Castle). You’re party should just learn to dodge.
Villain’s Menace & Into the Fray I tested it again like @blidfury11 described. He’s right, VM doesn’t add to party buff via ITF. It only provides a personal buff. Another weird mechanic. Thanks for pointing this out.
Pets and Bonding Enchantments I’m curious about your tests results. If I believe neverwinter.gamepedia.com, the Neverember Guard should be the fastest attacker with three defensive slots:
New Gear With the new lockbox, there is new best-in-slot gear for companions: items of Adorable Rolls. This grants 521 defense, 348 deflection and has two defense slots. Slotting three of these items gives you about 1k more defense than the Loyal Defender items per stack of companion’s gift.
Well, all I did was I slotted each of the companions, put the bonding stones on them and let them bash target dummies for 5 minutes each. What is important, besides the attack speed, is what the attack is composed of. For example, the best bonding proccer in the game is the lightfoot thief, this is because he has a fast attack speed, he multiprocs and he is able to get into combat quickly (deft strike).
When looking at the defensive companions, there are a few things to note: 1) Intellect devourer: It attacks slowly, but its attacks are AoE. This means that it can multi proc as if its attack procs bonding stones, it procs per targets hit and so even though it is slow, it can keep up ~2 stacks. In addition, it can attack at range. A minor note, this companion has 3 defense slots, even though the grid posted above lists it as not having them. 2)Lizardfolk shaman: This companion attacks faster attacks faster then the int devourer and also attacks at range, however it does not attack in an AoE like the devourer. However, unlike the devourer, it seems to apply a bleed mechanic and each tick of the bleed has a chance to proc bonding stones. It averages ~2.5 bonding procs as a result and the bleed allows it to multiproc up to 4/5. 3) Cleric disciple: Idk who wrote that article on gamepedia because this thing hits far more often then that. Its main attack hits 3 times in 1 go, each hit has a chance to proc bonding and it has roughly a 2 waiting period between this attack. It averages 3 stacks, however, it doesn't have a mechanic that allows it to multi proc, but it can attack at range. 4) Rimefire golem: This guy is a melee fighter with no ability like deft strike to get him into combat quickly, that immediately puts him at a disadvantage vs ranged fighters or companions with a teleport attack. He can multi proc on his AoE freeze attack and on his punch attack, however, he attacks very slowly. Out of all the companions I tested, he is definitely the worst. 5) Neverember Guard: He attacks at a decent pace and can keep up 2 stacks, however, like the Rimefire golem, he cannot get into combat as quickly as the ranged or teleport attack companions. Also, he is unable to multiproc on any of his attacks.
I ran some test today with Into the Fray, and how effective its buff is. Sample sizes are not too big, but deviation is low. I tested the strength on Into the Fray on Cleave versus mobs in Stronghold. - First test: Cleave without any buff; - Second test: Cleave with Into the Fray buff, without my pet - Third test: Cleave with Into the Fray buff, with my pet - Fourth test: Cleave with Into the Fray buff, without my pet, with negation enchantment
Conclusion: The 80% Damage Reduction (DR) cap counts only for incoming damage. All DR as you can see it in your character sheet is fully converted as damage buff. Not 25% of your DR as the tool tip suggests, but 100% of DR. So, we can stack Defense unlimited to boost the effectiveness of Into the Fray! DR from a Negation enchantment does not affect the Into the Fray buff.
FYI, the tool tip is correct, the first rank is 25%, subsequent ranks increase it by 25%, at rank 4 it is 100%.
Comments
That's good, that' very good because it keeps us entertained and makes us still want to play to dig deeper.
I only recently discovered how effective it is to slot Shield Warrior Wrath and get those stacks going while using standard solo play setup. When I added ITF to the mix + made a Conq/Protector hybrid...let's just say I again fully enjoy solo play with my GF.
It was hard playing as a pure Protector because of low damage, but now? holy molly! it's a completely different experience.
Next thing, poke around using bondings, I see me spending many hours testing their potential. It's a well known fact they're good? yeah maybe, but I still like to test it myself.
The beauty of bondings is that the stats buffed depend of what gear we give to our companion. So we can have one set for DR/ITF madness !!!! with Defender gear, and another Avenger loadout for pure DPS epicness !!!!!!
mwhahahhaha *evil laugh*
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
the +5% DR from knights valor feat may even work with into the fray, but i havent tested it myself.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
+5% DR from feats doesn't add up for Into the Fray buff. Only stats visible in your character sheet is converted into buffs with Into the Fray.
Then some minor additions:
- Gear: Mod 8 Twisted main/off hand: I tested it today. Even with running Knight's Valor, and without Guarded Assault, I am maxed on power stacks entire dungeons. It's bad to stack defense: no buffer set. It is good for solo content tho.
- Companions: Frost Mimic: adds 100/190/300 defense = 0.25/0.5/0.75% added DR = party buff
- Companions: Man at Arms: adds 100/190/300 defense = 0.25/0.5/0.75% added DR =party buff
I really think your guide is very complete, can I add it to mmominds.com???
BR
LinkinGirl
-AC/Defense
-Vilain's Menace
-Sigil of the Oathbound Paladin
-Astral Shield (DC power)
-Exaltation (DC power)
-Hollowed Ground (DC power)
Abilities that do not affect Into the Fray:
-Lunging Strike
-Knight Valor
-Knight Valor with Brawling Warrior
-Iron Warrior
-Line Breaker Assault
-Steel Defense with the relevant Artifact Class feature
-Negation Enchantment
-Ring of Sieging
Villains does have a long cast time but you can animation cancel it half way through to get the full effect and be able to go back to blocking/attacking.
Marks are worth 8% each for party members by the way, so tab mark + ET mark is +16% damage (an IV build can also stack the Threatening Rush mark for a 3rd mark). GWF daring shout adds to this as well
I just have a GF as an alt so i don't spend a lot of time testing my own build, so thank you for putting this together
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
BTW, the buff from marks do not stack.
I wonder when that changed, because multiple marks definitely used to stack
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Well it activate trample the fallen?
I'm on Xbox, and don't have access to a preview server to test this stuff, and testing live can be very expensive.
Please look into it and let me know, I appreciate it!
-Guarding with Guarded Assault feat and ACF active
-Terrifying Impact (stackable with other procs)
-Knee Breaker
-Griffon's Wrath
-Bull Charge
-Indomitable Strength
-Frontline Surge
-Flourish
-Crescendo
Control abilities that do not proc Crushing Pin
-Anvil of Doom with Terrifying Menace feat
Crushing Pin can be refreshed constantly. It does not stack with stacks you produced yourself, except procs from Terrifying Impact. Crushing Pin does stack with procs from other players.
As I don't use ACT myself, I can't test if the Tramle of the Fallen buff is applied. However, I can confirm Guarding with Guarded Assault feat and ACF active counts as a CC power, as it does proc Crushing Pin.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
What's the point of stacking deflection for a GF? we can't deflect while blocking, it's seems like a very wasted stat for us, we live behind our shield.
Personally, I mostly play with the Knight Captain set with 60k to 70k HP. I don't have much Deflection (1k). And I get only some extra Stamina from some boons (I do hit the 80% Damage Reduction cap fast tho). I never liked playing with the passive Shield Talent, it is a waste of a useful passive slot. Knight Valor is almost always slotted. I don't live behind my shield. I apply buffs as often as possible. Only when I expect big hits, I use my shield. Positioning and timing are in the end more important to survival than stats.
I prefer to block alot, and I stay behind my shield most of a boss fight. Popping out during safe times to cast two encounters.
I just don't feel the deflect is needed, but I'm not a GF guru either and I may be completely missing something about the rating to begin with.
Turning the boss so that it is not facing the rest of your party is a very good tactic for party protection as that will mean his special attacks are not hitting them. You don't need to run past the boss to do this though, just angle it to the side and your party can move over a bit as well
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
So now matter what is the method of applying it, it still works.
CA gives a big damage boost so it's always good to mark as many targets as possible. AFAIK ET doesn't have a target cap so it should be our no 1 encounter in party play (and solo play also)
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
For reference, the 3 defense slot companions I tested for him were:
Lizardfolk shaman
Rimefire Golem
Cleric Disciple (the best proccer)
Intellect devourer
Neverember guard
I didn't notice any other 3 defense slot companions but if you know of any others and want me to test them just say so
You should find this out yourself mainly. Learning mob's animations, and anticipating on their movements and attacks is best way to survive. Some hits you can take without guarding, with some you want to use your guard. Positioning has nothing to do with Combat Advantage (therefore use your marks).
I guess most important running with Knight’s Valor, is that you as tank should pull groups. Then you have agro from the start of a fight. If you run out of HP because of KV damage, your soulforged enchantment doesn’t activate. With longer fights, the dps group stands on one side of the mobs, and I will stand on the other side. Then my party gets less damage. Surviving direct hits from mobs is easier, because you can better anticipate on their attacks.
With some boss fights you shouldn’t use KV at all (Lostmouth, Valindra, Malabog’s Castle). You’re party should just learn to dodge.
Villain’s Menace & Into the Fray
I tested it again like @blidfury11 described. He’s right, VM doesn’t add to party buff via ITF. It only provides a personal buff. Another weird mechanic. Thanks for pointing this out.
Pets and Bonding Enchantments
I’m curious about your tests results. If I believe neverwinter.gamepedia.com, the Neverember Guard should be the fastest attacker with three defensive slots:
New Gear
With the new lockbox, there is new best-in-slot gear for companions: items of Adorable Rolls. This grants 521 defense, 348 deflection and has two defense slots. Slotting three of these items gives you about 1k more defense than the Loyal Defender items per stack of companion’s gift.
Loyal Defender items: (869 defense, 435 regen, defense/offense slot)
Minor exit/addition
Added a topic about the High Vizier and other old level 60 sets to interesting topics.
When looking at the defensive companions, there are a few things to note:
1) Intellect devourer: It attacks slowly, but its attacks are AoE. This means that it can multi proc as if its attack procs bonding stones, it procs per targets hit and so even though it is slow, it can keep up ~2 stacks. In addition, it can attack at range. A minor note, this companion has 3 defense slots, even though the grid posted above lists it as not having them.
2)Lizardfolk shaman: This companion attacks faster attacks faster then the int devourer and also attacks at range, however it does not attack in an AoE like the devourer. However, unlike the devourer, it seems to apply a bleed mechanic and each tick of the bleed has a chance to proc bonding stones. It averages ~2.5 bonding procs as a result and the bleed allows it to multiproc up to 4/5.
3) Cleric disciple: Idk who wrote that article on gamepedia because this thing hits far more often then that. Its main attack hits 3 times in 1 go, each hit has a chance to proc bonding and it has roughly a 2 waiting period between this attack. It averages 3 stacks, however, it doesn't have a mechanic that allows it to multi proc, but it can attack at range.
4) Rimefire golem: This guy is a melee fighter with no ability like deft strike to get him into combat quickly, that immediately puts him at a disadvantage vs ranged fighters or companions with a teleport attack. He can multi proc on his AoE freeze attack and on his punch attack, however, he attacks very slowly. Out of all the companions I tested, he is definitely the worst.
5) Neverember Guard: He attacks at a decent pace and can keep up 2 stacks, however, like the Rimefire golem, he cannot get into combat as quickly as the ranged or teleport attack companions. Also, he is unable to multiproc on any of his attacks.