maybe they will just add "ident scrolls in place of AD" for leadership! weee fill all my slots with 99 stacks of id scrolls since I get so many with ViP access, I want more pieces of toilet paper! weeeeeeee
lvl 25, remove the 4k and 2k AD quests and replace with 4 and 2 stacks of 99 identification scrolls! lol
IMO the dev team is clearly clueless on this sorry but I've been playing MMO's for over a decade and the one thing I can tell you that every update they put in to "stop" botters" has been tried in some fashion in every game out there and fails miserbly...bout the only thing it does accomplish well is hurting the legit players. Remember the enchanted key change or the coal wards from trade bars....changed to bind on pickup/account in an effort to stop botters...which frankly did diddly squat.
Let me be clear your census data is faulty when you believe you have a healthy game or that botters are its main problem...the blame can be squarely left at the feet of the dev team now and in the past for failing to listen to the community.
AD sinks need to be removed period. Not reduced removed. Replacement of the lost ad in leadership needs to be replaced with something worth the effort...heres a thought or two (dragon eggs, gmops, coal or pres wards). For the players that dont run dungeons campaign quests should reward a realistic not moronic amount of AD. SH needs a god darn rework on material costs across the board (btw wheres a weekly quest to reward coffer donations for that one?).
Insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...aka the proverbial botter fixes.
Just one more thing: The AD bots and the RP bots are actually HELPING the whole playerbase.
"Wow that dude is insane" you now think.
But think again. NWO is not a free market and its oeconomic mechanics. There are fixed prices, oeconomical axioms:
1. GMPOs prices, WB prizes, and AD upgrading costs (transmutes, boons, kits…) 2. refinment points needed for Artifacts, enchantments, strongholds …
Again, these are FIX costs no matter what. AD botters and rp botter actually helping the playerbase by generating masses of such FIXED priced items.
Example: Situation A: Current state, you run a dungeon or HE and get a very rare drop. Its selling in the AH for 2000kk, because people with LS armies / bots can afford that price. You sell and net 1800kk = 18 GMOPs
Situation B: Proposed state by the devs, ADs are very limited currency for whatever reason (for example even by activly fighting bots with GMs). Your drop sells for 200k because no botters or LS armies providing the inflating AD incomes. You sell and net 180k = not even two GMOPs
Conclusion: with the fixed prices the bots are HELPING the community to progress faster. They also help that players can actually PLAY the game rather clicking 10000000 times on a skill node or in the gateway to achive something.
The main problem is: THERE IS NO CONTENT TO RUN THAT DROPS ANYTHING VALUEABLE or PROFITABLE. In actuality over the course of 12 months everything profitable while playing the game was NERFED.
And where is the AD to purchase those valuables going to come from? People are always going to want the most for what they try to sell and now with AD being nerfed so hard it will take longer to sell and you will get less for it. Yet the prices to upgrade your toon are likely to stay the same.
On a side note, AD from PvP was 4k the trade of blades daily+4k the Rhix daily= 8k for 4 games with 1 win. Now it's 4k for 2 games and then X more matches to cap 7k AD.
Also: Leadership experience gain on the character should scale with level and, at level 70, give a NOTICEABLE contribution to reaching the cap for reward. Considering it's in the order of 700k exp+ for reward, each lvl 25 task that takes 1 day to complete or 16h+, should reward a % of total experience needed. Should be at least 5% of total experience needed to fill the "level".
Which means, you complete 3x16h+ tasks, you get 15% of the total experience needed. Now Leadership would be woth it to speed up the reward process/ filling up of the exp meter.
Also, as stated other times:
Make campaign completions account wide. Seriously. It's overall an insane amount of time needed to farm all the boons. The Zen market items unlock them only on 1 toon and cost 50$ worth of money. Are you insane devs?
Creating alts to "play the game as intended", as you say, means double gear, refarm ALL the campaigns. And the ToD last boons cost A LOT. It's insane to even think about collecting boons again on multiple toons or spend what, 150$ of zen ON EACH TOON to get the campaigns completed.
Now, consider how hard it is to gear up and refine stuff on just one toon. Creating alts would now be useless. Who would ever do it and why? You are forced to keep them in a mediocre state cause developing more than one toon in this game is insane unless you are some rich dude or exploiter with billions of AD stored.
Now, the way i see it, it should work this way:
guy with time/ old player: complete campaigns on main toon, gets them unlocked/ completed on all alts he creates. guy with money but no time: can buy zen store campaigns and unlock them/ complete them on all the toons, account wide.
Also, as stated other times, armor and weapon enchants are so expensive that you cannot really think about gearing up more than one toon unless you're one of the few whales going around. An easy solution would be to create an NPC that allows you to get for free a Bound on Character weapon/ armor enchant of the same grade of a "regular" one you have on the account. Which means, if i have a greater armor and greater weapon enchant on my main toon, when i create new toons i can get them, for free, a BoP greater armor/ weapon enchant of choice. Such enchants should be "linked" to the original one, and disappear if you sell the original enchant. Which means: i sell my greaters, all the BoP free enchants disappear. I buy/ craft another enchant, i can go to the NPC and get again a BoP enchant of the same grade on each of my alts.
Do these changes and players might have a reason to play your game. Being able to play more classes, more races, being able to enjoy the content.
Finally AD gets removed from Leadership, FINALLY. Really happy about this. Of course more has to be done, Foundry and Heroic Encounters should give AD too, but at least the alt armies can go F emselves now and the playing field is a bit more leveled.
Ok. Now then, what is the use for alts? You create an alt. Then you need to re-gear it after gearing up your main, or continuously switch enchants each time you switch toon, leading to a sh*tload of gold spent and a tiresome way of switching toons. Also, you need to re-farm the same campaigns again and again and spend AD again and again to get the boons again on each toon.
Unless you're happy with a boon-less, 2k iLvL toon, there's no way a sane player would ever consider creating alts. If they leave things like this, they can as well disable the option to create multiple toons cause there's literally no point in doing it unless you decide to drop your old class for a new class, entirely.
Changes might be ok but exp from leadership must be NOTICEABLE and a real boost to how fast you get the exp rewards, and the game must become more "alt-friendly".
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Clearly, most average players with a average size leadership army (10-20 ) used it for their OWN progression.
I never EVEN bought zen, even regardless, a lack of AD makes purchasing ZEN harder, how is that BETTER? for the company, since zen is purchased and funneled into the exchange with real money. How or WHY do they care how we get this AD.
IF they retain current costing, they might as well shut the servers down at that point. There isnt much reason to play the game.
Again, im not opposed to changes to AD creation, Im 100% opposed to leaving the COSTING the same if we are loosing 5-60% of our total AD creation.
I bought these slots, with real money, as I never purchased anything with AD for zen before..
Why am I being penalized for failure of your company to remove BoT and Gold sellers? You want to nuclear bomb things over and over, instead of dealing with the real issues.
As someone who paid and played your game for the last 2 years, im sort of fed up with it.
You clearly dont have any sort of clue what players actually want, as you continue to add grind over grind over grind and limit and remove the ability to play more then one Main. Now it almost sounds like you dont want us to even do that.
How about you drop this whole issue, we all forget about it and you go and BRING back the old dungeons.
I'm constantly amazed that they do nothing to bring back the old dungeons. It's continually requested by players and would go along way to giving players hope for the future. Particularly given this announcement. I'm starting to think someone at cryptic has lost them
they should bring back epic clock tower for the very low item score of 500, that way all the eliteists can ask for 2k item score.
Maybe they should replace AD in leadership with Feat points! lets make the human race useless too! at level 25 leadership you get to unlock 1 extra feat point per rare quest, wahooo bye bye humans.
The funny thing is that the people who are supporting the change in Leadership, as it currently exists, do not seem to realize how quickly this is going to kill the game due to a mass exodus of players. This will only make the bot problem worse as many of those who choose to stay will start buying AD for RL cash. Also, Cryptic/PWE will start making less money as they will have less players to purchase ZEN and an increased amount of players who spend their RL cash on black market AD versus buying Zen. This change will not hurt the AD sellers one bit as they earn their AD in other ways.
It does seem that the majority of players understand how borked the current state of things is with the economy and are willing to go along with a well thought out plan to make a change to Leadership by removing AD from the profession. The problem is that the opposite is the case and this is coming off as just another knee jerk, emotional reaction that does not accomplish anything other than hurt the players. What I think would be a better method of implementing the change is
- Eliminate all current AD sinks - Drop the prices on the Wondrous Bazaar dramatically - Add AD rewards to all quests/dungeons/PVP/and etc - Make it so that at Max Leadership we either have a chance, or once every 30 days have the ability, to make GMOP and Coalescent Wards -- in addition to having the ability/chance to make every refining stone/enchantment possible and in their different grades - Make gold useful -- unless there is something I can actually buy and use with gold, there is no need to increase the rate at which I accrue it.
They need to have all of this (and am sure there other/better suggestions that I have missed) in place before such a drastic change is implemented.
Add me to the voice of people who are disdainful of this change. While I agree with removing AD from leadership, I'm generally a solo player without a lot of excess time, and the idea that I can't get AD unless I run group content is extremely frustrating.
There should be solo quests that reward AD as well. I mean, I'll probably be fine in the long run simply due to my crafting resources, but this remains very frustrating.
Don't worry, they will get to the other professions too, and just remove any valuable rewards from them within a week as well. Because botters can farm unlimited quantities of profession nodes, and use the resources to craft items and sell those over the auction house for AD. That AD is then again transfered to other players for real money... which means, that they have to close down the auction house too. But you can still run dungeons, skirmishes and PvP for AD.
They would love nothing more than to see anyone leave the game that this change impacts, it's their ultimate end game.
Like the other poster earlier posted: It's the "new players" and "new wallets" that they are after. The ones that need a mount/bags/companions/bank slots etc... They don't care about past supporters, they already spent that money at the bar getting drunk anyhow.
Wait you mean there were more than 3 dungeons??? When? LOL
Why do you think the mount level requirement was lowered so much... this way a new player can quickly open their wallet.
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
I play solo. Run dailies. Bought the VIP for convenience. All my AD comes from Leadership. No way I'm doing PvP with my PvE armor. (Never liked PvP anyway.)
Of course you also removed most of the dungeons with no promise to bring them back soon, so... that'll become boring. Low AD = no GMOPS = end of progression.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
This is the final straw in the lopsided relationship Cryptic/Arc has with it's CUSTOMERS ! All you do is take, take, take. Take our money, then take away most of the dungeons, take away our skills with nerfs, nerf our ability to make AD and now this. I'm tired of it and am so done with this game. Every time you release a patch it's more 'take'. You never give back and you seem to have forgotten that this is our recreation, not our job and when recreation is no fun anymore, why bother playing ? Every time you take something away or nerf something, you lose more players and none of this seems to ever sink in. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. You started out with a beautiful game, rich in lore and possibilities and have systematically destroyed it, bit by bit with every patch. You still have bugs going back to Mod 4, you still haven't fixed and yet you release more mods on top of that with scant regard for the quality of your product. At some point there will be no one left who wants to play and then you will have accomplished what it seems you have set out to do, which is to destroy Neverwinter Online. Good luck & good riddance.
Cryptic doesn't have the time, people, or resources to bring them back. They are all being used to create wasted material like this Leadership change, or creating horribly concieved material like Stronghold.
You are mistaken... the lost content will show up again..... it will be called Mod 8
The other issue that they are forgetting about is that the folks that don't just quite outright, are going to stop playing/spending till they rework the existing price structure.
You can't just roll out a sweeping change like this and expect people to continue to play without addressing the high cost fixed price items.
I think they will end up shutting down the server. I just don't see more than 25% of the population staying around after this.
The worst part about the folks who either support this action or don't care is they don't see the way the winds of change are blowing. If Cryptic thinks they can get away with removing a core part of the game since the first alpha tests, there is no telling what else they have up their sleeves. More than likely they will do more to lock folks in with programs such as VIP so players feel trapped and unable to get out when something terrible like this or the next awful decision comes.
I have heard so many talking about getting chargebacks on their credit cards, which considering the bait and switch used with VIP is likely going to succeed, and glad of the fact this will result in their account being banned for all time on PWE servers. Folks are just that bitter about this sort of slap in the face treatment. This change might not affect everyone, but I guarantee ones they have in the works will eventually affect everyone in a negative manner, even ones who continue to spend their hard earned money.
If this isn't stopped here and now it will be too late to stop the snowball it will become. It is time for Mr. Shicoff to come forward and say they may have been premature with their announcement and will need to come up with a more palatable solution that will benefit everyone. The community has lots of ideas for ways to improve the Neverwinter experience for players and profitability for game. Tap them.
I have heard so many talking about getting chargebacks on their credit cards, which considering the bait and switch used with VIP is likely going to succeed, and glad of the fact this will result in their account being banned for all time on PWE servers. Folks are just that bitter about this sort of slap in the face treatment. This change might not affect everyone, but I guarantee ones they have in the works will eventually affect everyone in a negative manner, even ones who continue to spend their hard earned money.
That will be interesting if they not only lose players, but also get hit with tons of chargebacks. I think this change is going to really backfire on them.
Comments
lvl 25, remove the 4k and 2k AD quests and replace with 4 and 2 stacks of 99 identification scrolls! lol
You want to Remove all AD of Leadership than REMOVE also Piercing dmg from Game-
(i don't care anymore about leadership cuz im more than tired for SE)
TR do Nothing than just Run stealth and press 1x button, Insta 80k 90k 100k DMG for FREE-
for one single Daily-
there no way to defend myself with that amount of DMG-
Let me be clear your census data is faulty when you believe you have a healthy game or that botters are its main problem...the blame can be squarely left at the feet of the dev team now and in the past for failing to listen to the community.
AD sinks need to be removed period. Not reduced removed. Replacement of the lost ad in leadership needs to be replaced with something worth the effort...heres a thought or two (dragon eggs, gmops, coal or pres wards). For the players that dont run dungeons campaign quests should reward a realistic not moronic amount of AD. SH needs a god darn rework on material costs across the board (btw wheres a weekly quest to reward coffer donations for that one?).
Insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...aka the proverbial botter fixes.
The AD bots and the RP bots are actually HELPING the whole playerbase.
"Wow that dude is insane" you now think.
But think again. NWO is not a free market and its oeconomic mechanics. There are fixed prices, oeconomical axioms:
1. GMPOs prices, WB prizes, and AD upgrading costs (transmutes, boons, kits…)
2. refinment points needed for Artifacts, enchantments, strongholds …
Again, these are FIX costs no matter what.
AD botters and rp botter actually helping the playerbase by generating masses of such FIXED priced items.
Example:
Situation A: Current state, you run a dungeon or HE and get a very rare drop. Its selling in the AH for 2000kk, because people with LS armies / bots can afford that price.
You sell and net 1800kk = 18 GMOPs
Situation B: Proposed state by the devs, ADs are very limited currency for whatever reason (for example even by activly fighting bots with GMs). Your drop sells for 200k because no botters or LS armies providing the inflating AD incomes.
You sell and net 180k = not even two GMOPs
Conclusion: with the fixed prices the bots are HELPING the community to progress faster. They also help that players can actually PLAY the game rather clicking 10000000 times on a skill node or in the gateway to achive something.
The main problem is: THERE IS NO CONTENT TO RUN THAT DROPS ANYTHING VALUEABLE or PROFITABLE.
In actuality over the course of 12 months everything profitable while playing the game was NERFED.
Now it's 4k for 2 games and then X more matches to cap 7k AD.
Also: Leadership experience gain on the character should scale with level and, at level 70, give a NOTICEABLE contribution to reaching the cap for reward. Considering it's in the order of 700k exp+ for reward, each lvl 25 task that takes 1 day to complete or 16h+, should reward a % of total experience needed. Should be at least 5% of total experience needed to fill the "level".
Which means, you complete 3x16h+ tasks, you get 15% of the total experience needed. Now Leadership would be woth it to speed up the reward process/ filling up of the exp meter.
Also, as stated other times:
Make campaign completions account wide. Seriously.
It's overall an insane amount of time needed to farm all the boons. The Zen market items unlock them only on 1 toon and cost 50$ worth of money. Are you insane devs?
Creating alts to "play the game as intended", as you say, means double gear, refarm ALL the campaigns. And the ToD last boons cost A LOT.
It's insane to even think about collecting boons again on multiple toons or spend what, 150$ of zen ON EACH TOON to get the campaigns completed.
Now, consider how hard it is to gear up and refine stuff on just one toon. Creating alts would now be useless. Who would ever do it and why?
You are forced to keep them in a mediocre state cause developing more than one toon in this game is insane unless you are some rich dude or exploiter with billions of AD stored.
Now, the way i see it, it should work this way:
guy with time/ old player: complete campaigns on main toon, gets them unlocked/ completed on all alts he creates.
guy with money but no time: can buy zen store campaigns and unlock them/ complete them on all the toons, account wide.
Also, as stated other times, armor and weapon enchants are so expensive that you cannot really think about gearing up more than one toon unless you're one of the few whales going around.
An easy solution would be to create an NPC that allows you to get for free a Bound on Character weapon/ armor enchant of the same grade of a "regular" one you have on the account.
Which means, if i have a greater armor and greater weapon enchant on my main toon, when i create new toons i can get them, for free, a BoP greater armor/ weapon enchant of choice.
Such enchants should be "linked" to the original one, and disappear if you sell the original enchant. Which means: i sell my greaters, all the BoP free enchants disappear. I buy/ craft another enchant, i can go to the NPC and get again a BoP enchant of the same grade on each of my alts.
Do these changes and players might have a reason to play your game. Being able to play more classes, more races, being able to enjoy the content.
You create an alt. Then you need to re-gear it after gearing up your main, or continuously switch enchants each time you switch toon, leading to a sh*tload of gold spent and a tiresome way of switching toons.
Also, you need to re-farm the same campaigns again and again and spend AD again and again to get the boons again on each toon.
Unless you're happy with a boon-less, 2k iLvL toon, there's no way a sane player would ever consider creating alts. If they leave things like this, they can as well disable the option to create multiple toons cause there's literally no point in doing it unless you decide to drop your old class for a new class, entirely.
Changes might be ok but exp from leadership must be NOTICEABLE and a real boost to how fast you get the exp rewards, and the game must become more "alt-friendly".
I never EVEN bought zen, even regardless, a lack of AD makes purchasing ZEN harder, how is that BETTER? for the company, since zen is purchased and funneled into the exchange with real money. How or WHY do they care how we get this AD.
IF they retain current costing, they might as well shut the servers down at that point. There isnt much reason to play the game.
Again, im not opposed to changes to AD creation, Im 100% opposed to leaving the COSTING the same if we are loosing 5-60% of our total AD creation.
I bought these slots, with real money, as I never purchased anything with AD for zen before..
Why am I being penalized for failure of your company to remove BoT and Gold sellers? You want to nuclear bomb things over and over, instead of dealing with the real issues.
As someone who paid and played your game for the last 2 years, im sort of fed up with it.
You clearly dont have any sort of clue what players actually want, as you continue to add grind over grind over grind and limit and remove the ability to play more then one Main. Now it almost sounds like you dont want us to even do that.
How about you drop this whole issue, we all forget about it and you go and BRING back the old dungeons.
Sounds like a better plan for all involved.
I'm starting to think someone at cryptic has lost them
Maybe they should replace AD in leadership with Feat points! lets make the human race useless too! at level 25 leadership you get to unlock 1 extra feat point per rare quest, wahooo bye bye humans.
It does seem that the majority of players understand how borked the current state of things is with the economy and are willing to go along with a well thought out plan to make a change to Leadership by removing AD from the profession. The problem is that the opposite is the case and this is coming off as just another knee jerk, emotional reaction that does not accomplish anything other than hurt the players. What I think would be a better method of implementing the change is
- Eliminate all current AD sinks
- Drop the prices on the Wondrous Bazaar dramatically
- Add AD rewards to all quests/dungeons/PVP/and etc
- Make it so that at Max Leadership we either have a chance, or once every 30 days have the ability, to make GMOP and Coalescent Wards -- in addition to having the ability/chance to make every refining stone/enchantment possible and in their different grades
- Make gold useful -- unless there is something I can actually buy and use with gold, there is no need to increase the rate at which I accrue it.
They need to have all of this (and am sure there other/better suggestions that I have missed) in place before such a drastic change is implemented.
Because botters can farm unlimited quantities of profession nodes, and use the resources to craft items and sell those over the auction house for AD.
That AD is then again transfered to other players for real money... which means, that they have to close down the auction house too.
But you can still run dungeons, skirmishes and PvP for AD.
Like the other poster earlier posted: It's the "new players" and "new wallets" that they are after. The ones that need a mount/bags/companions/bank slots etc... They don't care about past supporters, they already spent that money at the bar getting drunk anyhow.
Wait you mean there were more than 3 dungeons??? When? LOL
Why do you think the mount level requirement was lowered so much... this way a new player can quickly open their wallet.
No way I'm doing PvP with my PvE armor. (Never liked PvP anyway.)
Of course you also removed most of the dungeons with no promise to bring them back soon, so...
that'll become boring. Low AD = no GMOPS = end of progression.
Take our money, then take away most of the dungeons, take away our skills with nerfs, nerf our ability to make AD and now this. I'm tired of it and am so done with this game. Every time you release a patch it's more 'take'. You never give back and you seem to have forgotten that this is our recreation, not our job and when recreation is no fun anymore, why bother playing ?
Every time you take something away or nerf something, you lose more players and none of this seems to ever sink in. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. You started out with a beautiful game, rich in lore and possibilities and have systematically destroyed it, bit by bit with every patch. You still have bugs going back to Mod 4, you still haven't fixed and yet you release more mods on top of that with scant regard for the quality of your product.
At some point there will be no one left who wants to play and then you will have accomplished what it seems you have set out to do, which is to destroy Neverwinter Online.
Good luck & good riddance.
You guys might as well just pull the plug now and save me the heartache. I feel like a rat clinging onto a sinking ship knowing the inevitable.
You can't just roll out a sweeping change like this and expect people to continue to play without addressing the high cost fixed price items.
I think they will end up shutting down the server. I just don't see more than 25% of the population staying around after this.
I have heard so many talking about getting chargebacks on their credit cards, which considering the bait and switch used with VIP is likely going to succeed, and glad of the fact this will result in their account being banned for all time on PWE servers. Folks are just that bitter about this sort of slap in the face treatment. This change might not affect everyone, but I guarantee ones they have in the works will eventually affect everyone in a negative manner, even ones who continue to spend their hard earned money.
If this isn't stopped here and now it will be too late to stop the snowball it will become. It is time for Mr. Shicoff to come forward and say they may have been premature with their announcement and will need to come up with a more palatable solution that will benefit everyone. The community has lots of ideas for ways to improve the Neverwinter experience for players and profitability for game. Tap them.