Mod 7 too easy:

thefabricant

So after all the unjustified complaining in module 6 about the dungeons being too difficult in mod 6, we now see them nerfed to the point where, once again, they too easy. Where as before ecc in mod 6 was a challenge, something that took effort, skill and team co-ordination, it is now reduced to the point where a group of 5 can do it with almost no skill at all. Added to that, as all the dungeons except MC were condensed in mod 6, there is no interesting exploration a player can do in the dungeons to make up for the fact that the content has now once again been tribialised. Elol is now probably soloable at 2-3k ilvl and by mod 8, I estimate the t2's will be soloable again as well.

What do I have to justify this? Well, earlier today I did ecc with a full 2k group (less then 2.1k ) where all the party members characters had only just hit 70 and did not have op artifacts, enchantments and companions. Instead of the last boss being super challenging with multiple wipes and requiring us to co-ordinate via voice like we did in mod 6, instead, we could stuff up multiple times, make several major mistakes and still clear the last boss. We wiped only once on the last boss, not multiple times, like we did in the past. Whats worse though is that it felt like we could probably have dropped 2 of the dps and still cleared the whole dungeon with a 2k group and in fact, during the first wipe, that was almost exactly what happened. 2 people dropped dead when the boss still had 66% of his life and we got him down to 10% when I (the healer) stuffed up, made a mistake, died, then caused the party to wipe. With gear inflation, by mod 8, a character considered reasonably geared then will probably be able to solo ecc. Don't worry, the run was recorded and videos are coming. Less impressive, we did a 2k etos without a tank as well, just me as healer and 4 dps. Once again, no complicated skill required, just brainless boss bashing.

This needs to be fixed. Last module, there was t1 dungeons for more causal players, dailies and campaigns for completely casual players and t2 dungeons for those of us who wanted a challenge. The challenging content is now gone, replaced with content that reminds one of mod 5. The point of mod 6, as I understand it, was to scale back the power creep, deflate characters and bring back some challenge into the game. Now, in mod 7, that challenge is sadly gone. Last module, when running ecc with a 2k group, we wiped 8 times on the last group and you know what, I was proud of that run, because it was a challenge. I felt good about the dungeon and beating it, because it was something difficult. I would rather struggle and wipe 8 tijes, then clear it without even taking it seriously.

Well, here are those videos I promised, take note in the failed attempt, the paladin was dead for a very long time and we were still able to continue. We could probably have done it straight up without the bubble quite easily and had a 3rd dps:

Failed attempt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5QKweSe2x0

Successful attempt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIiWCjPfMsA

2k group with no pallies 4 man on traven:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnM-7hN9-8

santralafax

thefabricant said:

So after all the unjustified complaining in module 6 about the dungeons being too difficult in mod 6, we now see them nerfed to the point where, once again, they too easy. Where as before ecc in mod 6 was a challenge, something that took effort, skill and team co-ordination, it is now reduced to the point where a group of 5 can do it with almost no skill at all. Added to that, as all the dungeons except MC were condensed in mod 6, there is no interesting exploration a player can do in the dungeons to make up for the fact that the content has now once again been tribialised. Elol is now probably soloable at 2-3k ilvl and by mod 8, I estimate the t2's will be soloable again as well.

What do I have to justify this? Well, earlier today I did ecc with a full 2k group (less then 2.1k ) where all the party members characters had only just hit 70 and did not have op artifacts, enchantments and companions. Instead of the last boss being super challenging with multiple wipes and requiring us to co-ordinate via voice like we did in mod 6, instead, we could stuff up multiple times, make several major mistakes and still clear the last boss. We wiped only once on the last boss, not multiple times, like we did in the past. Whats worse though is that it felt like we could probably have dropped 2 of the dps and still cleared the whole dungeon with a 2k group and in fact, during the first wipe, that was almost exactly what happened. 2 people dropped dead when the boss still had 66% of his life and we got him down to 10% when I (the healer) stuffed up, made a mistake, died, then caused the party to wipe. With gear inflation, by mod 8, a character considered reasonably geared then will probably be able to solo ecc. Don't worry, the run was recorded and videos are coming. Less impressive, we did a 2k etos without a tank as well, just me as healer and 4 dps. Once again, no complicated skill required, just brainless boss bashing.

This needs to be fixed. Last module, there was t1 dungeons for more causal players, dailies and campaigns for completely casual players and t2 dungeons for those of us who wanted a challenge. The challenging content is now gone, replaced with content that reminds one of mod 5. The point of mod 6, as I understand it, was to scale back the power creep, deflate characters and bring back some challenge into the game. Now, in mod 7, that challenge is sadly gone.

You say you wiped? As in failed to complete the dungeon alive?? Then I am not sure how you can describe it as too easy. This was a dungeon you were already familiarized with and had done tons of times before.

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lirithiel

thefabricant said:

So after all the unjustified complaining in module 6 about the dungeons being too difficult in mod 6, we now see them nerfed to the point where, once again, they too easy. Where as before ecc in mod 6 was a challenge, something that took effort, skill and team co-ordination, it is now reduced to the point where a group of 5 can do it with almost no skill at all. Added to that, as all the dungeons except MC were condensed in mod 6, there is no interesting exploration a player can do in the dungeons to make up for the fact that the content has now once again been tribialised. Elol is now probably soloable at 2-3k ilvl and by mod 8, I estimate the t2's will be soloable again as well.

What do I have to justify this? Well, earlier today I did ecc with a full 2k group (less then 2.1k ) where all the party members characters had only just hit 70 and did not have op artifacts, enchantments and companions. Instead of the last boss being super challenging with multiple wipes and requiring us to co-ordinate via voice like we did in mod 6, instead, we could stuff up multiple times, make several major mistakes and still clear the last boss. We wiped only once on the last boss, not multiple times, like we did in the past. Whats worse though is that it felt like we could probably have dropped 2 of the dps and still cleared the whole dungeon with a 2k group and in fact, during the first wipe, that was almost exactly what happened. 2 people dropped dead when the boss still had 66% of his life and we got him down to 10% when I (the healer) stuffed up, made a mistake, died, then caused the party to wipe. With gear inflation, by mod 8, a character considered reasonably geared then will probably be able to solo ecc. Don't worry, the run was recorded and videos are coming. Less impressive, we did a 2k etos without a tank as well, just me as healer and 4 dps. Once again, no complicated skill required, just brainless boss bashing.

This needs to be fixed. Last module, there was t1 dungeons for more causal players, dailies and campaigns for completely casual players and t2 dungeons for those of us who wanted a challenge. The challenging content is now gone, replaced with content that reminds one of mod 5. The point of mod 6, as I understand it, was to scale back the power creep, deflate characters and bring back some challenge into the game. Now, in mod 7, that challenge is sadly gone.

I call bullship on this. Do us all a favour and go flex your mighty epeen somewhere else.

thefabricant

santralafax said:

thefabricant said:

So after all the unjustified complaining in module 6 about the dungeons being too difficult in mod 6, we now see them nerfed to the point where, once again, they too easy. Where as before ecc in mod 6 was a challenge, something that took effort, skill and team co-ordination, it is now reduced to the point where a group of 5 can do it with almost no skill at all. Added to that, as all the dungeons except MC were condensed in mod 6, there is no interesting exploration a player can do in the dungeons to make up for the fact that the content has now once again been tribialised. Elol is now probably soloable at 2-3k ilvl and by mod 8, I estimate the t2's will be soloable again as well.

What do I have to justify this? Well, earlier today I did ecc with a full 2k group (less then 2.1k ) where all the party members characters had only just hit 70 and did not have op artifacts, enchantments and companions. Instead of the last boss being super challenging with multiple wipes and requiring us to co-ordinate via voice like we did in mod 6, instead, we could stuff up multiple times, make several major mistakes and still clear the last boss. We wiped only once on the last boss, not multiple times, like we did in the past. Whats worse though is that it felt like we could probably have dropped 2 of the dps and still cleared the whole dungeon with a 2k group and in fact, during the first wipe, that was almost exactly what happened. 2 people dropped dead when the boss still had 66% of his life and we got him down to 10% when I (the healer) stuffed up, made a mistake, died, then caused the party to wipe. With gear inflation, by mod 8, a character considered reasonably geared then will probably be able to solo ecc. Don't worry, the run was recorded and videos are coming. Less impressive, we did a 2k etos without a tank as well, just me as healer and 4 dps. Once again, no complicated skill required, just brainless boss bashing.

This needs to be fixed. Last module, there was t1 dungeons for more causal players, dailies and campaigns for completely casual players and t2 dungeons for those of us who wanted a challenge. The challenging content is now gone, replaced with content that reminds one of mod 5. The point of mod 6, as I understand it, was to scale back the power creep, deflate characters and bring back some challenge into the game. Now, in mod 7, that challenge is sadly gone.

You say you wiped? As in failed to complete the dungeon alive?? Then I am not sure how you can describe it as too easy. This was a dungeon you were already familiarized with and had done tons of times before.

Wiped as in the entire team died and yes, this occured once. We then beat the boss on the 2nd try but tell me, considering I did state we messed around and didn't work together properly, as well as typing during the fight rather then voice chat and considering the most challenging content in the game should, hypothetically, wipe us multiple times, is it not a testament to how the dungeons are too easy if we only wiped once. You seem to be under the illusion that it should be flawless, with no mistakes, well, the point I am trying to make is that whilst doing really stupid stuff we were still able to clear it, for example, I took off my weapon enchantment for the last boss fight and we still cleared it. If you want flawless, well, we could take ourselves seriously while running and do it flawlessly but the point I am trying to make is that even while playing like idiots, we could still do it.

As for your really badly thought out comment @arcofortep12, in the modern day and age, minority groups are protected and not just stomped over by the majority. The majority of the games content is aimed at other players and I am going to be frank here, they can damn well leave t2's alone, they don't need to run them if they aren't good enough. By removing challenging content, you are not appealing to a larger part of the playerbase, you are simply removing the interest of a certain demographic. A good example of why the majority is not necessarily always right is presidential elections. In the world, the majority of the people are uneducated. These uneducated people generally get taken advantage of and they vote in some corrupt politician to run the country. Where as, a minority group of educated people would have made a more informed decision and voted in someone better for the position. Just because the majority feel that person xyz is good for the position of president, doesn't make them right and just because a majority want mod 5 easymode cakewalk content, doesn't make them right either.

As for elol being soloable, well, I intend to do it this upcoming weekend on my 2.4k cw. I did CN in mod 5 and I feel I can do elol in mod 6. I will fail a bunch of times but so what, the point is, I feel the dungeon can be done by 1 player and I am setting out to prove it.

plasticbat

lirithiel said:

I call bullship on this. Do us all a favour and go flex your mighty epeen somewhere else.

He already gave us a hint. What is his user name?

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malfoir

thefabricant said:

clip... clap

Sooo, next you must run it naked and if you die then pres "esc", delete character and start grind from Shore.... if it not hard enough that way... he really have big epeen.

mamalion1234

http://postimg.org/image/pt1zyws75/ the tricks of paladin where is paladin ?

rollingonit

mamalion1234 said:

http://postimg.org/image/pt1zyws75/ the tricks of paladin where is paladin ?

Bet if you had an OP, you'd of done it in 5 minutes less. But in all seriousness, dungeons are fine. Let's see what's in store for Underdark as far as group content goes. Maybe old dungeons returned and t3 maybe maybe hopefully.

Then we can end this mostly useless discussions across 6 threads and actually start talking about things that really need fixing.

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commanderdata002

They think the challenge should be who can run more circles in IWD, WOD and Stronghold maps and not dungeons.

Legendary level really should be introduced to counter these arp changes...

wentris

arcofortep12 said:

Please don't say stupid thing...

lirithiel said:

I call bullship on this. Do us all a favour and go flex your mighty epeen somewhere else.

malfoir said:

Sooo, next you must run it naked and if you die then pres "esc", delete character and start grind from Shore.... if it not hard enough that way... he really have big epeen.

Why casuals tend to insult those who want end game? And this seems to be a common thing in difficulty threads. Cant you have a constructive discussion? Does it hurt you, that you cant do something they can, or what makes you guys go so aggressive?

On topic - there are 2 sides of the coin for me. One thing is that I, personally, miss the challenge of old content. Other thing is that in mod 6 I could run legit T2 content with, maybe, 5-6 of my guildmates/friends - others were too weak for that and were stuck with T1s, maybe ToS if we had party strong enough to carry somebody. Now I can run T2s with whoever from my guild I want and we will make it - even though I have less fun while clearing dungeon. This also means now I can run T2 almost whenever I want, while earlier I could do it, at most, 2-3 times a week. I dont think mod 7 will bring any increase in difficulty for old dungeons. I hope mod 8 will bring some new, challenging and rewarding ones.

On a side note - its is really just about time to fix the eCC exploit now - dungeons are easy enough not to "need" it to get protector seals.

blinxon

> @arcofortep12 said:
> Your opinion is respectable, but I find the solo thing a dream, I'm talking about content ran legit.

Well..mayb not solo, but duo is usual since fix:
Search YT Lazares GWF Kessels and youll see.
And how can you talk about legit runs?

icyphish

if u find pve too easy then pvp community welcomes you

malfoir

blinxon said:

> @arcofortep12 said:

> Your opinion is respectable, but I find the solo thing a dream, I'm talking about content ran legit.



Well..mayb not solo, but duo is usual since fix:

Search YT Lazares GWF Kessels and youll see.

And how can you talk about legit runs?

Heh, so you need just BIS gear and most "Broken" -class ingame and it is easy?

Normal players still have problems with dungeons and BTW why those videos were so "choppy", pretty bad idea stand all the time on reds...oh, I forgot it is "broken" class what keeps "mentally challenged" player alive.

And for those who seek challenge,

It is not insult to say that "Strip naked", it is challenge to play low geared, also leave "broke" class out your party and try more difficult team combination etc.

Current dungeons are still challenge (so called Epic) for 95% players and 99.99% glitch eCC, I donr care if glitch is fixed, I got my gear, but for others...

wentris

malfoir said:

It is not insult to say that "Strip naked", it is challenge to play low geared, also leave "broke" class out your party and try more difficult team combination etc.

That kind of kills the point of gear progression and coordination. That is why end gamers play end game - to plan their gear and test their builds - skills/feats and gear for maximum output and test them in places that require them -nerfing yourself is not the way to go. Same with limiting team combination / skillsets used - although I agree some balance tweaks are needed as well - for example OP DP + Virtous DC combo is broken, but thats devs job to balance it.

icyphish said:

if u find pve too easy then pvp community welcomes you

Yeah, I look at pvp section from time to time... no, thanks, its simply toxic. Plus, PvP is more about competition - 90% of balance threads are about 1v1 situations, while PvErs prefer cooperation. Not to mention in PvP exploits play far greater role than in PvE - especially if you dont use eCC one

drkbodhi

eLol is soloable?

I may be missing something here. Is it as hard as it used to be... no. But then again the reason it was so hard was due to a HUGE game breaking bug that may have sent 100k+ players away from NW for ever. Now that we have acclimated to that previous stimuli based on the difficulty being as it was... some consider the current state "too easy". Make it harder for yourself... if you are bored.​​

blinxon

> @malfoir said:>
> Current dungeons are still challenge (so called Epic) for 95% players and 99.99% glitch eCC, I donr care if glitch is fixed, I got my gear, but for others...

You glitched too? You also think its ok to glitch eCC? Maybe you think its the devs fault, cuzz eCC was too hard?
And of course its a vid on youtube with bis gear player and an OP. What else should i show? The 99,99% eCC glitcher they all cried for easier dungeons and still glitching? How easy should it be that they gonna stop this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> exploit using? Maybe 1 mob and than the endboss and ofc without any red zones and hits?

humorisbenefit

drkbodhi said:

eLol is soloable?



I may be missing something here. Is it as hard as it used to be... no. But then again the reason it was so hard was due to a HUGE game breaking bug that may have sent 100k+ players away from NW for ever. Now that we have acclimated to that previous stimuli based on the difficulty being as it was... some consider the current state "too easy". Make it harder for yourself... if you are bored.​​

+1 THIS.

blinxon

@drkbodhi said:
Make it harder for yourself... if you are bored.​​

Make eCC without glitch if you think its better now and doable. Or you bored?

kemi1984

Uhm....ok, so the game was hard because of the bug that killed you now matter what.
Than dev's decided to make it even more stupid adding 50% of HP to the mobs (the dumbest thing ever made lol).
Than the bug was fixed and the mobs had their HP changed to the default state.

Please stay with me for a while...after that game was at the state like it SHOULD BE after launch - no bugs !!!

And...

After all I see posts crying GAME IS TOO EASY! .....................

I must say WOW!!

I agree that the after the patch game is easier. But I'm far from saying it's mod 5.

Before the change I was splatted each time I lowered my shield, couldn't take a hit from any random mob - not talking about telegraphed elite mob attack or red.

So now, the game is not easy - it's playable. It's like it should be from the beg of mod6.
Tank can tank, DC can heal, DPS can dps.

Thank you.

wentris

kemi1984 said:

Uhm....ok, so the game was hard because of the bug that killed you now matter what.
Than dev's decided to make it even more stupid adding 50% of HP to the mobs (the dumbest thing ever made lol).
Than the bug was fixed and the mobs had their HP changed to the default state.

Please stay with me for a while...after that game was at the state like it SHOULD BE after launch - no bugs !!!

And...

After all I see posts crying GAME IS TOO EASY! .....................

I must say WOW!!

I agree that the after the patch game is easier. But I'm far from saying it's mod 5.

Before the change I was splatted each time I lowered my shield, couldn't take a hit from any random mob - not talking about telegraphed elite mob attack or red.

So now, the game is not easy - it's playable. It's like it should be from the beg of mod6.
Tank can tank, DC can heal, DPS can dps.

Thank you.

No, there were other changes made during mod 6 - dungeon mobs damage was significantly reduced at least once

kemi1984

And to add to this - sorry for double post.

We should have T3 dungeons. So those skilled and voice chat players can go there and have a blast.
Just copy ECC and EGWD. Make the mobs 300% HP, add the DR bug - since dev's now know what caused it.

Seem simple enough, right?

And to make it clear. I'm not against anyone who's saying they're to easy. We're here to state our opinions.
But I'm quite certain that majority of game peeps are happy with the change. At least they can play normally and not hit dirt every 30 seconds.

bushman1414

blinxon said:

> @malfoir said:>

> Current dungeons are still challenge (so called Epic) for 95% players and 99.99% glitch eCC, I donr care if glitch is fixed, I got my gear, but for others...



You glitched too? You also think its ok to glitch eCC? Maybe you think its the devs fault, cuzz eCC was too hard?

And of course its a vid on youtube with bis gear player and an OP. What else should i show? The 99,99% eCC glitcher they all cried for easier dungeons and still glitching? How easy should it be that they gonna stop this HAMSTER exploit using? Maybe 1 mob and than the endboss and ofc without any red zones and hits?

Is this real, we did glitch eCC and it is the way how to do it... in boss fight you get small lag spikes, gameclient failure/crahs etc. and start all over...

Current t2´s are not too easy, they are now too easy for "broken clases", BIS players/guilds, but for us casual players, fresh itemlevel 2K wtc. they are still challenge.

Mod6 caused many leave game and it is big challenge to get more players to this fading game, making content we cant play/complete will not help and those who cry too easy content will not leave this game so making content easier is better choice here...

"Strip naked", "select different team combination", "dont use broken class" etc. are valid way do content interesting again and even find new way "clean trash/mini bosses" is fun... but if content slay you before you can act, that content will be abandoned soon.

kemi1984

wentris said:

kemi1984 said:

Uhm....ok, so the game was hard because of the bug that killed you now matter what.
Than dev's decided to make it even more stupid adding 50% of HP to the mobs (the dumbest thing ever made lol).
Than the bug was fixed and the mobs had their HP changed to the default state.

Please stay with me for a while...after that game was at the state like it SHOULD BE after launch - no bugs !!!

And...

After all I see posts crying GAME IS TOO EASY! .....................

I must say WOW!!

I agree that the after the patch game is easier. But I'm far from saying it's mod 5.

Before the change I was splatted each time I lowered my shield, couldn't take a hit from any random mob - not talking about telegraphed elite mob attack or red.

So now, the game is not easy - it's playable. It's like it should be from the beg of mod6.
Tank can tank, DC can heal, DPS can dps.

Thank you.

No, there were other changes made during mod 6 - dungeon mobs damage was significantly reduced at least once

I do remember there was a damage nerf mentioned in the notes some time ago.
But If I recall correctly it was closer to "slightly".

No matter what happened. There were too many posts like "I have 16k defense, 160k HP + temp, 60% DR - and still being randomly OHK'ed behind the shield" This change cleared that issue so it's a good change in my book.

wentris

Fixing this bug was needed - I would never want it to come back again - current situation is better, than it was before, it was just too much. The thing is that from "I have 16k defense, 160k HP + temp, 60% DR - and still being randomly OHK'ed behind the shield" we now have "I have 16k defense, 160k HP + temp, 60% DR - and after getting hit by everything game threw at me I havent lost even 10% temp HP" - GFs have similar problems too.
I dont like the idea talking about player as about its iLvL, since its very lacking, but if skill and gear quality scaled with iLvL this is current situation - we have PvE content from 0-2.5k, but max iLvL is about 4.5. What about 2.5-4.5k? No content - you have to strip and gimp yourself and that kills the fun and feel of challenge.

P.S. The nerf was 25%, so before that mobs hit 33% harder than now - that would be better.

blinxon

> @bushman1414 said:
we did glitch eCC and it is the way how to do it...

Pardon??? You glitched eCC and thats the way how to do it? Using exploits is unfair und there is no excuse at all to use exploits/glitches/bugs. If you think you cant handle a boss legit, stay away from him. Its awesome that so many insulting the "its to easy" fraction cuzz now its fair to handle in dungeons and till this fix its totally ok to glitch eCC.
Because "it is the way how to do it".....
But after this fix they are still using this glitch. Why? You get easy to traven. So what is the reason that you still gltiching him?

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