theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Ahh, I suppose you have a point there. I don't much like the design choice of Strongholds to begin with, but I was trying to play devil's advocate because I kind of understand their strategy, even if i disagree with it.
But I suppose you're right-the "It's hard at first and then kihihihihi we'll make it possible to sell resources" approach does kind of require small guilds to not just get super PO'd and quit.
Main reason why I think that that's their strategy is because the infrastructure is in place to sell resources. They had to explicitly override selling of adventurer's shards of power. Don't thinks normally need to be explicitly placed into categories to be searchable on the AH? It's like they had an oops and quickly tried to cover it up to spoil the surprise later on. "What? Buying things off the AH? No, you were never able to do that >>"
Said it before, will say it again: Ideally, they'll make getting the top tier benefits hard at first, so the uber guilds have to use all their uber resources, then they'll make selling resources an option, allowing smaller guilds to catch up once the uber guilds have excess resources.
In the meantime, smaller guilds are at a disadvantage, but that's a natural thing. People need to be patient. Solo players are screwed either way though, yeah.
The problem with that is that it runs the risk of the smaller guild players deciding not to tough it out, not to form 'lasting player bonds that will allow for greater retention' but to go "screw it, there are better MMO's out there than this garbage, I'm done!" in the four months it will take Cryptic to actually respond to these issues. It's an incredibly shortsighted approach that runs the risk of alienating even more players, which given the huge swaths of people that quit the game in Mod 6, Cryptic absolutely cannot afford.
They need to rebuild their trust and rapport with their player base, by creating fun, in depth content that isn't bogged down by soul-crushing grind and boredom in a ham-fisted attempt to get people to purchase more Zen. They seem to have forgotten that people are more inclined to stick around and keep paying for a game that they enjoy, rather than simply to relieve the psychological punishment of a ridiculous grind. If they think their current approach is viable, they need to go ask the makers of Dungeon Keeper: Mobile how well that worked out for them.
firstly, you misquoted this particular post. I didn't write that. theycallmetomu did.
secondly, on your previous comment of using paragraphs, yes, I occasionally brainfart those when I just blast out a rant. A lot of us do. We're gamers. It's in our nature to mess up on occasion.
thirdly, this, your assessmenty of the whole game's direction, is 100% accurate, as to strongholds in general. as well as much else of the game's direction.
This is exactly what I was hinting at. I played the old neverwinter. I liked it, because of the ease and the challenge mixed, wiothout having to blow a half a weeks pay per month on the game to be happy with it. things, in my opinion, started going down hill in the selling out department, with mod 4, but again, this is just an opinion.
-ahem, pardon whatever typos I juast left behind, was laying down typing-
Yes, there are better mmos out there, but most do not cater to the cheap and the poor in the gaming culture. I'd be a little of both of those. poor enough to be cheap, but capable of buying a seperate game if necessary. It's beginning to look like a stand alone, real rpg is going to have to be my path, as cryptic seems to be...yeah. I'll give it another few months of half-tailed effort, but honestly I'm enjoying text based games more and more these days, with gameplay, content, and very little to no graphics, unfortunately. I may try spending more time on NW again, but the past month or so of being away...it's opened my eyes to the fact that there is, indeed, more to life and entertainment, than having to babysit a shredding machine, or self-nerf to make it 'interesting' or 'challenging' to have fun, etc.
If you know of any that have a decent pricetag, or better yet free, feel free to inbox me a few titles, as long as that isn't a blatant violation of the terms of arc and cryptic(I honestly skimmed the T&C literature, it looked pretty much standard to me) I'm up for something challenging but still fun(not DS as someone mentioned in another thread[or this one?]... that game is just...no. that's beyond what I call fun, and into the realm of wth)
I'd like to remain a loyal patron of cryptic, but yeah... at the moment, I'm leaving this current account entirely free, until they decide to both evolve, and to step back towards the classic, content and gameplay based mmo that it started as, like EQ and WOW when they began. I'm just..none of the big names are like they should be, true adventure rpg's, because people no longer seem to want the adventure part, and are willing to not only pay for the games, but to continue payig and paying for nothing but advancement, rather than wanting something fun to play.
I love solo games. I love the occasional social games... and sometimes, I like to have the option for both in one game. cryptic did a great job there, but is failing in other aspects, as you mentioned and I reiterated. Oh well, as with so many before, looking like time to break out the old xp offline computer, and start reloading my old AoW and other little SP games, until something gets really going with Cryptic in some real direction, such as the direction they've been advertising from the start, true f3p gaming
pfft!
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology. It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
My apologies about the misquote, my friend, I'll be more careful in the future. And I'm presently hunting around for more. I'll let you know if I find one.
My apologies about the misquote, my friend, I'll be more careful in the future. And I'm presently hunting around for more. I'll let you know if I find one.
danka man. hopefully cryptic will try going back to the principals that started mmorpgs... but then their devs I guess wouldn't be able to make more in a week than I make in a year of hard labor? oh well... to each their own...
look forward to hearing something ghood.regarding a possible good game(preferrably f2p, or not extremely expensive, with decent graphics...but those I think after the past few hours of net searches, don't exist for pc, except actual old games)
like seriously... I found my old cd case of games... in the garage. on the shelf with all the automotive chemicals. will be lucky if any of them work anymore. none currently work on windows 7. doubt they'll work on the old pc. hopefully at least one will work. AoW2:Wt would be nice... but that one is too easy on easy, too hard on expert, and...yeah. basically predictable AI on the other two.
looking for challenge, content, and, should it be possible, graphics.
best set I have is the DND anthology from the late nineties I think for gameplay. graphics are. bleh, except in the cutscenes.
one of them, intriguingly, its the temple of elemental evil... lol
pfft!
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology. It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
They did a CRPG for Temple of Elemental Evil near the end of 3.5e's run.
Game was abjectly awful, completely riddled with bugs. They had a good thing going and they blew it. They blew it!
The game is designed to ensure some socialization, and co-operation just like the old tabletop AD&D. I like that.
Imagine sitting around a table on a Saturday night with all the books, a dungeon drawn out, and then staring at it expecting it to interact with you. Not very successful.
I knew this was coming.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
MMOs have various levels of solo friendliness. NWO used to be high levle solo friendliness. Now it's not. The people who liked that old dynamic are upset that the dynamic was changed on them.
Saying "IT'S AN MMO YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG" is just all sorts of sophomoric thinking. A much better argument is "a solo friendly game won't make sales; Cryptic has to appeal to us crazy evil people who wanna force solo players into group play kihihihi" would be a little better :P
They could just offer Strongholds in small, medium and big.
Problem solved.
Any big guild with the max. amount of "active" players would still get their oversized benefits.
But any medium and small guild would at least see some medium and small benefits from their Strongholds too.
They could just offer Strongholds in small, medium and big.
Problem solved.
Any big guild with the max. amount of "active" players would still get their oversized benefits.
But any medium and small guild would at least see some medium and small benefits from their Strongholds too.
Doesn't address the core symptoms and still leaves the small and medium guilds to get hosed on by the bigger ones, or to get gobbled up by them and disappear. Since otherwise, they will always be operating at a disadvantage.
They could just offer Strongholds in small, medium and big.
Problem solved.
Any big guild with the max. amount of "active" players would still get their oversized benefits.
But any medium and small guild would at least see some medium and small benefits from their Strongholds too.
Doesn't address the core symptoms and still leaves the small and medium guilds to get hosed on by the bigger ones, or to get gobbled up by them and disappear. Since otherwise, they will always be operating at a disadvantage.
Yes, but it would at least be a start, and i doubt that we even will get that out of the Devs...
It's go big, or go get your credit card and start buying Stronghold packs from the auction house and/or ZEN shop to get your small/medium guild into shape.
Thank you all for the posts from both sides of the arguement, and to the one's who say things like "its MMO not MSO" The mall has hundreds of people in it, but telling customers you cant come in or shop in the good areas unless you have at least 5 people is throwing business away, which is exactly what Cryptic is doing, that was my point plain and simple. There should be options to run solo or with a team. You CAN have both, many games have it and from the business side of the company, you absolutely should ( a company which was taken over last month July 28 by their parent company because of poor finances and a loss of roughly 800 mil in profit from 2013 till now, and please look it up before you run your mouth to dispute these facts ).
Currently what you have is, Shun and alienate one type of player, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the wallet of the other, and call it free to play and MMO as your argument, yet a loss of millions and last months merger ( actual takeover ) because of financial loss is the reality here.
Not to mention how most of the new content is not so good ( even though I just did ) and that especially includes Strongholds.
Again, wake up Cryptic. ( notice I said Cryptic, so unless your sleeping with one of the developers, anyone not working at Cryptic or Perfect World has no need to feel like they were insulted ).
And yes I will have some cheese with my whine.
Why am I even bothering ? this could have been a great game but poor business and developing decisions prove it may not even have a future and some of you may like or be willing to settle for less quality and say nothing, but i'm not.
Anyway,
It no longer matters for me personally, as a player who mainly solo's 75% of the time because I may have to stop on a moments notice (Fireman who plays from work and a baby at home that at times needs immediate attention at those waking up crying times) I am done with Neverwinter. There is simply not enough quality here for that 25% of the time I do play with my guild or other players.
With all that said I have not played DDO for many years and a few weeks ago decided to see how they have been coming along. And so far, I would highly recommend it to both sides. Good luck to you all.
In short, there is no place for solo players in NWO anymore.
Underdark won't change that.
My guess, Underdark will be "balanced" on guild with either all or most benefits maxed out.
In other words, small guilds might find themself in trouble then too...
In short, there is no place for solo players in NWO anymore.
Underdark won't change that.
My guess, Underdark will be "balanced" on guild with either all or most benefits maxed out.
In other words, small guilds might find themself in trouble then too...
Indeed Underdark will be balanced on all guild boons. Then when people complain, they will release a ZEN option to unlock theese boons
That is offcourse, if there is even any players left by then.
Finally a proud member of The Lower Depths of Neverwinter.
@angrysprite is correct. Wait until Mod 8 - it will only be three months or so before all those who just got their shiny new artifact weapons will have to replace them once again.
Do you even hear yourselves? Show me at least 1 geniune way to procure enough AD/RP for the "shiny new" in the time frame of a single module? In the past we farmed dungeons, scrapped purples for AD, we had more AD dailies, we had Dragon Hoards that dropped reasonable amounts of bound RP stones thru normal gameplay. What do we have now - forced login leadership?!
What type of player has bis gear every new module? What type of player can afford a new orange Artifact MH+OH every few months? The consistent inconsistency is whats killing this game. Bring new equipment sure, but also bring more and more ways to procure the raw items needed for that equipment. Also dont just render the old gear obsolete when it takes so much effort to level it.
So, what type of player can be bis here? => botter, whale, old-time cheater/exploiter and old-time Leaderships army guy. Which one are you? How many of you are there? Are you enough to keep Nvw online and where does the casual gamer with a normal monthly gaming budget fit in all this? So many questions, so little dev response...
In short, there is no place for solo players in NWO anymore.
Underdark won't change that.
My guess, Underdark will be "balanced" on guild with either all or most benefits maxed out.
In other words, small guilds might find themself in trouble then too...
Indeed Underdark will be balanced on all guild boons. Then when people complain, they will release a ZEN option to unlock theese boons
That is offcourse, if there is even any players left by then.
Solo player returns in Mod 8. Strongholds is nothing but a Saturday Special. Get over it already.
2 Mods too late my good whale, much too late.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited August 2015
I expect them to be nerfing the Stronghold obscene requirements in mod 8 or mod 9, when they notice that the biggest guilds have reached the top and hence the spending will decline dramatically. What I would like to see if a way for small casual guilds and unguilded players to get something more out of this mod. Unguilded soloers really got no content from this mod and that's really unfair on them. Small casual guild will never reach the best benefit. My guild has been at it for a week and we don't have a farm yet. -.-'. I've seen requirements for rank 10 warehouse only (not even a needed structure I think), and I think that at our current rithm it would take us one year for that rank alone. Yes, I'm aware that the only way to solve this is inviting more people and I'm working on that, but still, it's absurd. What I would like to see:
1) A way for non-guild players to access Stronghold content (gear, boons and pvp) through temporary mercenary contracts. Their method would be less efficient (with Zen to speed up *winks*) than the standard one. 2) Some kind of feature to throw a bone to small casual guilds like: - Excess resources tradable between guilds. (I give you X gems, you give me Y treasure of tiranny, or viceversa). - Possibility of multiple smaller guilds of cooperating together (like in pvp, but for pve as well), for example if I invite a player from another guild in my party, he can enter my stronghold and do quests and heroic encounters with me, he can't contribute to coffers of course. (and this could be applied to non-guilded players as well).
Solo player returns in Mod 8. Strongholds is nothing but a Saturday Special. Get over it already.
2 Mods too late my good whale, much too late.
Well, not only too late, but also what would be the point in returning to NWO by then, when you would need a big guild and all the benefits from it to even get into Underdark?
Imagine if that other MMO ( the first mmo ever ) decided to make an expansion, where to even enter you had to be in a guild, and if you wanted to progress you had to have alot of active members donating both their time and resources. Resources that could be spent on improving their character. And to get many of theese resources, you would have to grind the same few rewardless encounters and do daylies in old zones.
I don't think their forums would survive. They would simply implode.
Finally a proud member of The Lower Depths of Neverwinter.
Well in most MMOs the Devs work hard, to get more players into the game, and they even try to make sure that new players find an easy and fast path to the glorious "endgame"... and i'm not talking about buying XB boosters.
They also add new content to the game, and if they remove some lower level content, then mostly only to bring it back reworked right away. Or they offer several different versions of the same dungeon, but with rewards fitting to the difficulty.
Not to mention, that when you reach max. level, most MMOs offer more to the players, then just a handfull of options to keep you bussy and interested in loggin in again.
You can add faster bug fixing, better game server stability, or even a reliable customer support to that list.
Anyway, this would also explain, why most other MMOs have a lot more active players running around in them, even with a real subscription required to play it. And giving the option to play solo or in a group, guild, alliance, organisation, or whatever it may be named, doesn't have to exclude on or the other way of playing a game.
Comments
But I suppose you're right-the "It's hard at first and then kihihihihi we'll make it possible to sell resources" approach does kind of require small guilds to not just get super PO'd and quit.
Main reason why I think that that's their strategy is because the infrastructure is in place to sell resources. They had to explicitly override selling of adventurer's shards of power. Don't thinks normally need to be explicitly placed into categories to be searchable on the AH? It's like they had an oops and quickly tried to cover it up to spoil the surprise later on. "What? Buying things off the AH? No, you were never able to do that >>"
firstly, you misquoted this particular post. I didn't write that. theycallmetomu did.
secondly, on your previous comment of using paragraphs, yes, I occasionally brainfart those when I just blast out a rant. A lot of us do. We're gamers. It's in our nature to mess up on occasion.
thirdly, this, your assessmenty of the whole game's direction, is 100% accurate, as to strongholds in general. as well as much else of the game's direction.
This is exactly what I was hinting at. I played the old neverwinter. I liked it, because of the ease and the challenge mixed, wiothout having to blow a half a weeks pay per month on the game to be happy with it. things, in my opinion, started going down hill in the selling out department, with mod 4, but again, this is just an opinion.
-ahem, pardon whatever typos I juast left behind, was laying down typing-
Yes, there are better mmos out there, but most do not cater to the cheap and the poor in the gaming culture. I'd be a little of both of those. poor enough to be cheap, but capable of buying a seperate game if necessary. It's beginning to look like a stand alone, real rpg is going to have to be my path, as cryptic seems to be...yeah. I'll give it another few months of half-tailed effort, but honestly I'm enjoying text based games more and more these days, with gameplay, content, and very little to no graphics, unfortunately. I may try spending more time on NW again, but the past month or so of being away...it's opened my eyes to the fact that there is, indeed, more to life and entertainment, than having to babysit a shredding machine, or self-nerf to make it 'interesting' or 'challenging' to have fun, etc.
If you know of any that have a decent pricetag, or better yet free, feel free to inbox me a few titles, as long as that isn't a blatant violation of the terms of arc and cryptic(I honestly skimmed the T&C literature, it looked pretty much standard to me) I'm up for something challenging but still fun(not DS as someone mentioned in another thread[or this one?]... that game is just...no. that's beyond what I call fun, and into the realm of wth)
I'd like to remain a loyal patron of cryptic, but yeah... at the moment, I'm leaving this current account entirely free, until they decide to both evolve, and to step back towards the classic, content and gameplay based mmo that it started as, like EQ and WOW when they began. I'm just..none of the big names are like they should be, true adventure rpg's, because people no longer seem to want the adventure part, and are willing to not only pay for the games, but to continue payig and paying for nothing but advancement, rather than wanting something fun to play.
I love solo games. I love the occasional social games... and sometimes, I like to have the option for both in one game. cryptic did a great job there, but is failing in other aspects, as you mentioned and I reiterated. Oh well, as with so many before, looking like time to break out the old xp offline computer, and start reloading my old AoW and other little SP games, until something gets really going with Cryptic in some real direction, such as the direction they've been advertising from the start, true f3p gaming
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
danka man. hopefully cryptic will try going back to the principals that started mmorpgs... but then their devs I guess wouldn't be able to make more in a week than I make in a year of hard labor? oh well... to each their own...
look forward to hearing something ghood.regarding a possible good game(preferrably f2p, or not extremely expensive, with decent graphics...but those I think after the past few hours of net searches, don't exist for pc, except actual old games)
like seriously... I found my old cd case of games... in the garage. on the shelf with all the automotive chemicals. will be lucky if any of them work anymore. none currently work on windows 7. doubt they'll work on the old pc. hopefully at least one will work. AoW2:Wt would be nice... but that one is too easy on easy, too hard on expert, and...yeah. basically predictable AI on the other two.
looking for challenge, content, and, should it be possible, graphics.
best set I have is the DND anthology from the late nineties I think for gameplay. graphics are. bleh, except in the cutscenes.
one of them, intriguingly, its the temple of elemental evil... lol
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
Game was abjectly awful, completely riddled with bugs. They had a good thing going and they blew it. They blew it!
I knew this was coming.
Saying "IT'S AN MMO YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG" is just all sorts of sophomoric thinking. A much better argument is "a solo friendly game won't make sales; Cryptic has to appeal to us crazy evil people who wanna force solo players into group play kihihihi" would be a little better :P
Problem solved.
Any big guild with the max. amount of "active" players would still get their oversized benefits.
But any medium and small guild would at least see some medium and small benefits from their Strongholds too.
Doesn't address the core symptoms and still leaves the small and medium guilds to get hosed on by the bigger ones, or to get gobbled up by them and disappear. Since otherwise, they will always be operating at a disadvantage.
It's go big, or go get your credit card and start buying Stronghold packs from the auction house and/or ZEN shop to get your small/medium guild into shape.
Currently what you have is, Shun and alienate one type of player, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the wallet of the other, and call it free to play and MMO as your argument, yet a loss of millions and last months merger ( actual takeover ) because of financial loss is the reality here.
Not to mention how most of the new content is not so good ( even though I just did ) and that especially includes Strongholds.
Again, wake up Cryptic. ( notice I said Cryptic, so unless your sleeping with one of the developers, anyone not working at Cryptic or Perfect World has no need to feel like they were insulted ).
And yes I will have some cheese with my whine.
Why am I even bothering ? this could have been a great game but poor business and developing decisions prove it may not even have a future and some of you may like or be willing to settle for less quality and say nothing, but i'm not.
Anyway,
It no longer matters for me personally, as a player who mainly solo's 75% of the time because I may have to stop on a moments notice (Fireman who plays from work and a baby at home that at times needs immediate attention at those waking up crying times) I am done with Neverwinter. There is simply not enough quality here for that 25% of the time I do play with my guild or other players.
With all that said I have not played DDO for many years and a few weeks ago decided to see how they have been coming along. And so far, I would highly recommend it to both sides. Good luck to you all.
Underdark won't change that.
My guess, Underdark will be "balanced" on guild with either all or most benefits maxed out.
In other words, small guilds might find themself in trouble then too...
Indeed Underdark will be balanced on all guild boons. Then when people complain, they will release a ZEN option to unlock theese boons
That is offcourse, if there is even any players left by then.
I´d like buy lvl20 Strongholds ZEN -kit and players can join... only 500K AD per month fee, good deal....
What I would like to see if a way for small casual guilds and unguilded players to get something more out of this mod.
Unguilded soloers really got no content from this mod and that's really unfair on them.
Small casual guild will never reach the best benefit. My guild has been at it for a week and we don't have a farm yet. -.-'. I've seen requirements for rank 10 warehouse only (not even a needed structure I think), and I think that at our current rithm it would take us one year for that rank alone. Yes, I'm aware that the only way to solve this is inviting more people and I'm working on that, but still, it's absurd.
What I would like to see:
1) A way for non-guild players to access Stronghold content (gear, boons and pvp) through temporary mercenary contracts. Their method would be less efficient (with Zen to speed up *winks*) than the standard one.
2) Some kind of feature to throw a bone to small casual guilds like:
- Excess resources tradable between guilds. (I give you X gems, you give me Y treasure of tiranny, or viceversa).
- Possibility of multiple smaller guilds of cooperating together (like in pvp, but for pve as well), for example if I invite a player from another guild in my party, he can enter my stronghold and do quests and heroic encounters with me, he can't contribute to coffers of course. (and this could be applied to non-guilded players as well).
I don't think their forums would survive. They would simply implode.
They also add new content to the game, and if they remove some lower level content, then mostly only to bring it back reworked right away. Or they offer several different versions of the same dungeon, but with rewards fitting to the difficulty.
Not to mention, that when you reach max. level, most MMOs offer more to the players, then just a handfull of options to keep you bussy and interested in loggin in again.
You can add faster bug fixing, better game server stability, or even a reliable customer support to that list.
Anyway, this would also explain, why most other MMOs have a lot more active players running around in them, even with a real subscription required to play it.
And giving the option to play solo or in a group, guild, alliance, organisation, or whatever it may be named, doesn't have to exclude on or the other way of playing a game.