Enemy caped the node. Left perma stealth potato there who can troll 2-3 pll. GG. You will never recap that node.
Errr.. if 2 or 3 ppl are on the node they can retake it back against 1 troll tr. After recapping, they leave 1 strong enough to not die to tr in less than a minute and the troll can not even contest it. Who's trolling now?
I don't mind this cap contest change in domination matches but what really bothers me is no mentions of it whatsoever in the patch notes nor previous warnings. To me it could've well be a "bug" as far as I know, but I guess the majority of the community didn't take it that way.
you cant recap the node till yopu kill the enemy on it. So how you will kill perma rogue? Till enemy still alive even 5 ppl can't recap it.
Enemy caped the node. Left perma stealth potato there who can troll 2-3 pll. GG. You will never recap that node.
Errr.. if 2 or 3 ppl are on the node they can retake it back against 1 troll tr. After recapping, they leave 1 strong enough to not die to tr in less than a minute and the troll can not even contest it. Who's trolling now?
I don't mind this cap contest change in domination matches but what really bothers me is no mentions of it whatsoever in the patch notes nor previous warnings. To me it could've well be a "bug" as far as I know, but I guess the majority of the community didn't take it that way.
you cant recap the node till yopu kill the enemy on it. So how you will kill perma rogue? Till enemy still alive even 5 ppl can't recap it.
You did not get it. You don't need to kill tr.You just need to recap it with 2 players. Then one player can leave.
Like so many other things, this is one of those 'sounds good on paper but is horrible when actually tried IRL' deals that makes me wonder if the Devs actually playtest this.
As far as I could understand from my only domination match I had since this last patch, to contest and recap a node you have to have numerical superiority on that node. If you 1v1 or 2v2 on the node and it's, let's say, blue it will stay blue giving points to your team. Anything equal or below in numbers from your team on an enemy node will not make the node contested.
That makes the node either fully on one side of the team or being capped by the other team, leaving the notion of "contested" obsolete I guess.
If I'm a damage dealer, I would love this change, but as a defender with no damage and cc, this change is less favorable. in a match that we need to have more people on all nodes at all times, we either need to kill fast or do chain control. Defenders can do neither. In a longer game, though, I can see defenders each stay at one node while everybody else rotate, so they can actually be useful. Not sure how this would affect premade vs premade situations.
Another problem is that it gives us no incentive to try to win when we have fewer people than our opponents. I got into 5 gg matches today. The changes made it pretty apparent which side will win in the first 2 min or so. People start afk or leave after that. The side with fewer people lose even faster. It was possible for the side with fewer to win in previous mods, but now it's not happening unless there a huge gear gap between the two groups.
I would say this change is a mix but may be less welcomed by defender classes.
Well said.. !!! and very true.. Defender class cant do anything bc of their low damage and slow movement.
Another example. Enemy caped the node. Left perma stealth potato there who can troll 2-3 pll. GG. You will never recap that node. Aurox, Pando you guys didn't get it yet? lol The change is horrible but in favor of perma stealth TRs, DCs, Palies. Now they got even more advantage over other classes.Well done.
Not true!.. defender class cant take node . bc they slow and low damage. the other class just run around in the circle.
the most favorable for this changes is TR.
(1) When one of the side is upon a node, capture process is started
(2) When equal number of people are on a node, capture is halted (3) When capture is halted, the ownership of the node is fully retained(score counted) for the owner
(4) When the node is neutral in (3), then the node remains neutral
(5) When there are more people from one side, then capture process is started
...so even if a side captures a node and puts a Paly or DC on it, you can capture it and reap its scores by sending +1 more people on that node.
1. So tanks and DCs are now very poor solo node contestors, since if any solo defender comes, you can't kill it and thus node is not disrupted.
2. They are still good solo node holders IF only one defender comes
3. High DPS classes need to continuously move to any contested nodes to actually kill to clear, as well as adding numbers for a forced node capture
I think all in all, a more aggressive strategy of fighting and killing the other team is required.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
(1) When one of the side is upon a node, capture process is started
(2) When equal number of people are on a node, capture is halted (3) When capture is halted, the ownership of the node is fully retained(score counted) for the owner
(4) When the node is neutral in (3), then the node remains neutral
(5) When there are more people from one side, then capture process is started
...so even if a side captures a node and puts a Paly or DC on it, you can capture it and reap its scores by sending +1 more people on that node.
1. So tanks and DCs are now very poor solo node contestors, since if any solo defender comes, you can't kill it and thus node is not disrupted.
2. They are still good solo node holders IF only one defender comes
3. High DPS classes need to continuously move to any contested nodes to actually kill to clear, as well as adding numbers for a forced node capture
I think all in all, a more aggressive strategy of fighting and killing the other team is required.
Well explained. Just so amused that some people does not get rules and start to complain.
Actually the current rule was what I would assume after my first few pvp games.
Regardless, it's a bug that should stay. If it was the kind of band-aid fix, it's just right on spot. This was a one liner in a code that improves PvP overall;
- no more permastealth TR holding a node against 3 or 4 people
- no more immortal DC or OP camping a node useless
- a lot less matches that take forever
Granted you could still troll a node, but you can't block enemy points so matches feel more active.
Well explained. Just so amused that some people does not get rules and start to complain.
Actually the current rule was what I would assume after my first few pvp games.
It's still a bit early too tell just what the implications are. But my impression is that with this small change, now anyone who considers themself a capable PvPer should be actively engaging enemies wherever they are, in sort of a "search and destroy" mode.
1. If we assume similar levels of skill and gear, when there's 1 defender on the node, the attacker needs to kill him to take the node over. Prior to this change this process of contesting would block the scoring from that node, but now it does not.
2. Even if you can kill that guy in a 1v1 situation (which requires luck, in that no other defenders come), there's too much score loss as during the entire process of 1v1 fight + node capture you will be losing points.
Hence, IMO the more efficent method is to simply outnumber them in a node fight.
3. But if that happens in one place, that means you're outnumbered somewhere else.
4. IMO the best case scenario with these new rules, is that the more capable, highly geared players with DPS classes should actively seek out and destroy as many enemies as possible, as fast as possible, to reduce the numbers of active players on the field at a given time. Doesn't matter if its on a node or not. If you see an enemy, go engage it. In other words, the DPS class players should be actually in a very fast and aggressive "search and destroy" DEFENSE. You pre-emptively prevent node capture by killing as many people as possible.
5. The lesser geared players, and tanks and DC players IMO, should move around in seperate groups to the DPS group to take nodes. IMO tanks and DCs are needed on the offense, so they can help keep the numbers of offense group steady, while they engage and kill off the defenders. In other words, the lesser geared players, and other tank/DC players are actually on the OFFENSE, so they can always maintain their numbers to outnumber the nodes and take them away from the enemies.
So IMO with the new Domi rules, I think the roles are sort of changed. Instead of planting DCs or tanks on the node for a immortal defense, they need to move in groups for an offense. For classes like HRs or TRs, while backcapping is still important, they'd probably be better in a free-roaming sweep to "search and destroy" enemies for a more aggressive form of defensive, which the ideal is to stop enemy node capture PRE-EMPTIVELY by clearing the field of enemies.
I still don't have an answer as to whether this is for the better or worse. In some cases it doesn't feel all that different, while in other cases the difference shows up greatly.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Until the queue sys works again (full parties on both side) I'm not queueing in domination anymore. And to me this new mode of domination matches is not better or worse, it's just different.
Its like it was back in beta right? Recap with more players.. Anyhow its hard to tell if the bloody TR is on node or not : )
Diagnosing a TR before it's too late.
1: If there is a prickling sensation on your back side that hurts more than it should, caution is advised.
2: Frequently check the stretching of said sensitive parts even though you are 100% certain you are wearing pants.
3: When in doubt, assume there is a Shocking Execution waiting to happen.
If symptoms persist, write on the other 13-page thread to which devs pay no attention whatsoever.
I Just did PvP with my CW. With the current mode you can keep 2 ppl occupied and get points, if you hold the node and use repel and other CCs to keep one from the node, not very fair.
Regardless, it's a bug that should stay. If it was the kind of band-aid fix, it's just right on spot. This was a one liner in a code that improves PvP overall;
- no more permastealth TR holding a node against 3 or 4 people
- no more immortal DC or OP camping a node useless
- a lot less matches that take forever
Granted you could still troll a node, but you can't block enemy points so matches feel more active.
+1
This is best change in pvp from....1 year of pvping
The change works exactly as kweassa described. And works BETTER than previous mechanic.
It erases some cheap tactics and forces players to actually play more aggressive and "WAI". TR is meant to pick targets and kill them, not to rush the enemy node and troll it forever thanks to lame perma build and passive gameplay.
Also DC/OP are meant to play in group and support, not to backcap the enemy node with "immortality".
Now lame compositions of 3 healing tanks or more in one team are less powerful, where previously it was kind of a nightmare in PUG PvP. With nodes perma-contested by them and the 1-2 DPS classes moving to clear, being immortal thanks to heals. Now the enemy team can counter such composition, cause an immortal DC/OP tank sitting on a node doesn't mean it's perma-contested anymore.
It also add a layer of strategy since it's not passive "send immortal backcapper to enemy node".
It's a good change, no matter how you look at it. Every class still have a role in PvP. Would be nice if tank heals now were "fixed" to be less of a all-in-one tank+make team immortal thing, and more of a "tank or support" so they either get super tanky but only boost team survivability a little, or make team super-tanky but are less survivable themselves.
I'm afraid whatever changes for the better in the game system, will ultimately trumped by idiotic additions to the game like gratuitious megapowered boons, VIP teaming, and SH PvP gear without level restrictions.
Tales of dreadful problems that would effectively totally end PvP are already coming up from the lower levels. It is only a matter of time until it catches up with the higher levels and ultimately, lv70 PvP.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Interesting. I wonder how this will play out for the PvP meta over the next few weeks.
well...unless you are a VIP 5 or higher PVP is a waste of time now. I was on chat with a friend who is over 3100 gear score and was getting one shotted for over 50K by an 1800 Gear score. The 1800 was a player she has handled easily before. The only change is her opponent bought the $50 VIP. Unless you can afford maximum VIP, then you have no change. In Gauntelgrym you aren't even safe in the spawn from these "Super Boons"...they even reach there except for a very narrow strip at the top of the stairs..so it is respawn and die.
well...unless you are a VIP 5 or higher PVP is a waste of time now. I was on chat with a friend who is over 3100 gear score and was getting one shotted for over 50K by an 1800 Gear score. The 1800 was a player she has handled easily before. The only change is her opponent bought the $50 VIP. Unless you can afford maximum VIP, then you have no change. In Gauntelgrym you aren't even safe in the spawn from these "Super Boons"...they even reach there except for a very narrow strip at the top of the stairs..so it is respawn and die.
Im confused, what does the VIP system offer? It only gives like 2k more HP? So how could this be an issue or make a difference?
The change is horrible.
First of all no patch notes.To actually know officialy what chnanged.Besides 20-30 forumers and pvpers nopbody know how this thing works.So now any pug dom match is a waste of time cause people don't get ,understand or notice the new rules.
As concerning me i am still puzzled.By character i don't like changes when things are working .And now dom is not working.In paper sounds great.In RL we have just some zerg tactics.That's it gentlemen.No mid or go to base ...these are over.
Just zerg en masse clear the nodes and then numerically attack the respawining toons.GG.
Where you see new tactics?Old tactics that worked for almost two years are gone ,defenders/solo cappers ae gone,1vs1 good toon builds are gone.
Speed and control rules.
Just zerg zerg zerg.
People have no clue what to do.I mean here int he forum experienced posters and pvpers disagree ,writing in front off their scree.Imagine normal players at the heat of battle.
Overall this change favors speed classes with a lot of control.Classes that work well in synergy with others.
CWs,HRs ,TRs will have a party.
GWFs will do well cause of sprint.
DCs/GFs/OPs are doom to fail in importance with these changes.
Please revert them back and put these changes on preview for test.
Which is ???Zerg?Search and destroy the nemy toons when you have two of three yours nodes?Zerg zerg zerg.
Dom from a refined game mode whare each class had its role is now a dps /control fest.Defence is irrelevant when you ganked up by two or three.Dom mode from a game that reqired team coordination and roles that demande mature players has become a 15 year old FPS.Great change great strategy.
But i guess owning a GWF -biggest DPS at the moment and with sprint-will be fun.
Play a GF a DC or a OP with these changes and you will see that change is not for good.
Comments
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
That makes the node either fully on one side of the team or being capped by the other team, leaving the notion of "contested" obsolete I guess.
double-post oops.
Well said.. !!! and very true.. Defender class cant do anything bc of their low damage and slow movement.
Not true!.. defender class cant take node . bc they slow and low damage. the other class just run around in the circle.
the most favorable for this changes is TR.
The changed rule is, specifically, like this:
(1) When one of the side is upon a node, capture process is started
(2) When equal number of people are on a node, capture is halted
(3) When capture is halted, the ownership of the node is fully retained(score counted) for the owner
(4) When the node is neutral in (3), then the node remains neutral
(5) When there are more people from one side, then capture process is started
...so even if a side captures a node and puts a Paly or DC on it, you can capture it and reap its scores by sending +1 more people on that node.
1. So tanks and DCs are now very poor solo node contestors, since if any solo defender comes, you can't kill it and thus node is not disrupted.
2. They are still good solo node holders IF only one defender comes
3. High DPS classes need to continuously move to any contested nodes to actually kill to clear, as well as adding numbers for a forced node capture
I think all in all, a more aggressive strategy of fighting and killing the other team is required.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Actually the current rule was what I would assume after my first few pvp games.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
- no more permastealth TR holding a node against 3 or 4 people
- no more immortal DC or OP camping a node useless
- a lot less matches that take forever
Granted you could still troll a node, but you can't block enemy points so matches feel more active.
It's still a bit early too tell just what the implications are. But my impression is that with this small change, now anyone who considers themself a capable PvPer should be actively engaging enemies wherever they are, in sort of a "search and destroy" mode.
1. If we assume similar levels of skill and gear, when there's 1 defender on the node, the attacker needs to kill him to take the node over. Prior to this change this process of contesting would block the scoring from that node, but now it does not.
2. Even if you can kill that guy in a 1v1 situation (which requires luck, in that no other defenders come), there's too much score loss as during the entire process of 1v1 fight + node capture you will be losing points.
Hence, IMO the more efficent method is to simply outnumber them in a node fight.
3. But if that happens in one place, that means you're outnumbered somewhere else.
4. IMO the best case scenario with these new rules, is that the more capable, highly geared players with DPS classes should actively seek out and destroy as many enemies as possible, as fast as possible, to reduce the numbers of active players on the field at a given time. Doesn't matter if its on a node or not. If you see an enemy, go engage it. In other words, the DPS class players should be actually in a very fast and aggressive "search and destroy" DEFENSE. You pre-emptively prevent node capture by killing as many people as possible.
5. The lesser geared players, and tanks and DC players IMO, should move around in seperate groups to the DPS group to take nodes. IMO tanks and DCs are needed on the offense, so they can help keep the numbers of offense group steady, while they engage and kill off the defenders. In other words, the lesser geared players, and other tank/DC players are actually on the OFFENSE, so they can always maintain their numbers to outnumber the nodes and take them away from the enemies.
So IMO with the new Domi rules, I think the roles are sort of changed. Instead of planting DCs or tanks on the node for a immortal defense, they need to move in groups for an offense. For classes like HRs or TRs, while backcapping is still important, they'd probably be better in a free-roaming sweep to "search and destroy" enemies for a more aggressive form of defensive, which the ideal is to stop enemy node capture PRE-EMPTIVELY by clearing the field of enemies.
I still don't have an answer as to whether this is for the better or worse. In some cases it doesn't feel all that different, while in other cases the difference shows up greatly.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Diagnosing a TR before it's too late.
1: If there is a prickling sensation on your back side that hurts more than it should, caution is advised.
2: Frequently check the stretching of said sensitive parts even though you are 100% certain you are wearing pants.
3: When in doubt, assume there is a Shocking Execution waiting to happen.
If symptoms persist, write on the other 13-page thread to which devs pay no attention whatsoever.
+1
This is best change in pvp from....1 year of pvping
It erases some cheap tactics and forces players to actually play more aggressive and "WAI". TR is meant to pick targets and kill them, not to rush the enemy node and troll it forever thanks to lame perma build and passive gameplay.
Also DC/OP are meant to play in group and support, not to backcap the enemy node with "immortality".
Now lame compositions of 3 healing tanks or more in one team are less powerful, where previously it was kind of a nightmare in PUG PvP. With nodes perma-contested by them and the 1-2 DPS classes moving to clear, being immortal thanks to heals. Now the enemy team can counter such composition, cause an immortal DC/OP tank sitting on a node doesn't mean it's perma-contested anymore.
It also add a layer of strategy since it's not passive "send immortal backcapper to enemy node".
It's a good change, no matter how you look at it. Every class still have a role in PvP. Would be nice if tank heals now were "fixed" to be less of a all-in-one tank+make team immortal thing, and more of a "tank or support" so they either get super tanky but only boost team survivability a little, or make team super-tanky but are less survivable themselves.
I'm afraid whatever changes for the better in the game system, will ultimately trumped by idiotic additions to the game like gratuitious megapowered boons, VIP teaming, and SH PvP gear without level restrictions.
Tales of dreadful problems that would effectively totally end PvP are already coming up from the lower levels. It is only a matter of time until it catches up with the higher levels and ultimately, lv70 PvP.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Im confused, what does the VIP system offer? It only gives like 2k more HP? So how could this be an issue or make a difference?
First of all no patch notes.To actually know officialy what chnanged.Besides 20-30 forumers and pvpers nopbody know how this thing works.So now any pug dom match is a waste of time cause people don't get ,understand or notice the new rules.
As concerning me i am still puzzled.By character i don't like changes when things are working .And now dom is not working.In paper sounds great.In RL we have just some zerg tactics.That's it gentlemen.No mid or go to base ...these are over.
Just zerg en masse clear the nodes and then numerically attack the respawining toons.GG.
Where you see new tactics?Old tactics that worked for almost two years are gone ,defenders/solo cappers ae gone,1vs1 good toon builds are gone.
Speed and control rules.
Just zerg zerg zerg.
People have no clue what to do.I mean here int he forum experienced posters and pvpers disagree ,writing in front off their scree.Imagine normal players at the heat of battle.
Overall this change favors speed classes with a lot of control.Classes that work well in synergy with others.
CWs,HRs ,TRs will have a party.
GWFs will do well cause of sprint.
DCs/GFs/OPs are doom to fail in importance with these changes.
Please revert them back and put these changes on preview for test.
Which is ???Zerg?Search and destroy the nemy toons when you have two of three yours nodes?Zerg zerg zerg.
Dom from a refined game mode whare each class had its role is now a dps /control fest.Defence is irrelevant when you ganked up by two or three.Dom mode from a game that reqired team coordination and roles that demande mature players has become a 15 year old FPS.Great change great strategy.
But i guess owning a GWF -biggest DPS at the moment and with sprint-will be fun.
Play a GF a DC or a OP with these changes and you will see that change is not for good.