Why weren't changes to epic dungeon chests mentioned in patch notes?

hugienwn

Just finished Epic ECC and all 5 of us got seals of the lion from the final chest (and no gear). Is this intentional?

Furthermore, finished Epic Lair of Lostmauth and got a weird item with no name or description (bound to character). It has a neverwinter "coming soon" icon in inventory and has "Open Box" (which does nothing) as the only right-click option. Not sure what that is...

Anyone else experiencing these things?

asterdahl

We are aware of this issue and looking into solutions. You should still be able to receive your daily cache rewards, and rewards from bosses, in the meantime we recommend holding onto your dungeon keys until we can verify the extent of the issue.

asterdahl

Hi everyone, thank you for your patience while we were looking into this. We have identified that the issue is present in all dungeon chests (epic or otherwise) and in some cases, (Cragmire, Temple of the Spider, etc.) this is causing players to receive levelling dungeon seals instead of the expected Seals of the Protector and Elements. In other cases, this is causing unnamed and sometimes un-openable reward packs to fall into the players inventory.

As others have already noted, the entire flow for using a dungeon chest key has changed, making it impossible to see the rewards before committing to using a key. Let me explain why this choice was made.

The previous functionality was counter to our original intent with the dungeon keys. These were always meant to result in a bonus reward, randomly selected from a list of possibilities. The reality for quite some time was that rather than using a key for a random bonus reward, players could choose to hold their key and re-run the content until they received the exact reward they wanted.

That being said, what you saw was released early, in an unfinished state and not properly communicated. For that, we apologize. Right now we have reverted those changes locally and will be returning chests to the way they functioned before Module 7 launch on LIVE as soon as possible.

We are still evaluating not only what the chest opening experience will be but also what is in the chests. We want to address concerns regarding their contents and make sure that they feel valuable and worthwhile each time you open them.

More information will be coming in the future, so keep an eye on the site.

Unknown

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kvet

This post should be in bug reports. Hopefully someone screenshots that, definitely sounds like a bug

cjh1983

I'm experiencing massive lag, are you looking into that as well?

rinat114

And sadly ECC isn't fixed yet and can still be abused. Jeez.

hugienwn

asterdahl wrote: »

We are aware of this issue and looking into solutions. You should still be able to receive your daily cache rewards, and rewards from bosses, in the meantime we recommend holding onto your dungeon keys until we can verify the extent of the issue.

Thank you! Pumped for strongholds. You guys have done great work.

snotty

you know, while this is clearly not WAI, it wouldn't be so bad if the chests worked like they used to. And by that I mean before mod7 we could see what rewards were inside the chest and decide not to take the rewards if we didn't need them thus saving our dungeon key for another possible run.

But now we have to use our key before finding out whats inside, this was a bad change and serves no purpose other then forcing us to waste our keys. And since we only get 1 free key a day I don't see why this would have ever been such an issue that this change was needed.

Wasting my dungeon key to receive 10 seals of lions is enough to make someone throw their laptop across the room. Also you only get the cache and possible boss drop from killing the boss and since that drop can be nothing more then a peridot (if the boss drops anything at all) the chest was always the real reward.

escapados2

Waisting daily dungeon key is not a big problem, it's waisting epic chest key for HAMSTER it usually contain is a real problem.

charononus

I always thought that the previous key method would be changed as I couldn't imagine it was intended.

regenerde

asterdahl wrote: »

We are aware of this issue and looking into solutions. You should still be able to receive your daily cache rewards, and rewards from bosses, in the meantime we recommend holding onto your dungeon keys until we can verify the extent of the issue.

... what about the one-shot issue in epic dungeons from regular/normal attacks?
When will we see a fix for that?

wentris

charononus wrote: »

I always thought that the previous key method would be changed as I couldn't imagine it was intended.

Yeah, it looked crippled... but it was the only reason why it worked. Currently, if crafted/zen key chests loot was not changed - there is absolutely no reason to buy them, since in long run you will always lose AD.

... what about the one-shot issue in epic dungeons from regular/normal attacks?
When will we see a fix for that?

So Damage Resistance bug was not fixed? Thats sad news, I will still feel like a Martyr whenever I go as a tank for my guild

ogarious

kvet wrote: »

This post should be in bug reports. Hopefully someone screenshots that, definitely sounds like a bug

Umm, noticed that a dev has already replied to the OP? It means they are aware of the issue. It's not like one of those people just come on here, post something willie nillie, then go out to Taco bell and pick up a 5 pack before coming back and binge watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

wentris

ogarious wrote: »

kvet wrote: »

This post should be in bug reports. Hopefully someone screenshots that, definitely sounds like a bug

Umm, noticed that a dev has already replied to the OP? It means they are aware of the issue. It's not like one of those people just come on here, post something willie nillie, then go out to Taco bell and pick up a 5 pack before coming back and binge watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

Umm, noticed that dev replied AFTER him? Asterdahls answer is above Kvets, because its considered as an answer.

ogarious

Wentris, that's really weird. Looking at it right here the dev posted before he did. On your end your saying Kvet posted before the dev?

That is weird. If that's the case then I take back my inflammatory remark.

For the record, the way it's looking. We have the OP, then asterdahlk (The dev), then defiantone99, then kvet...



AHA! I've figured it out. asterdahlk's comment got moved to the very top because it was listed "best answer" That's while it's lined up that way. I'm the A-hole. I apologies.

regenerde

wentris wrote: »

charononus wrote: »

I always thought that the previous key method would be changed as I couldn't imagine it was intended.

Yeah, it looked crippled... but it was the only reason why it worked. Currently, if crafted/zen key chests loot was not changed - there is absolutely no reason to buy them, since in long run you will always lose AD.

... what about the one-shot issue in epic dungeons from regular/normal attacks?
When will we see a fix for that?

So Damage Resistance bug was not fixed? Thats sad news, I will still feel like a Martyr whenever I go as a tank for my guild

I have not checked it, but since there is nothing about it in patchnotes, guessing the issue is still there.

Would be great, if the Devs would venture into a dungeon with the IL they recommend, and then play it through without any GM/Dev tools while streaming it...

oldbaldyone

snotty wrote: »

But now we have to use our key before finding out whats inside, this was a bad change and serves no purpose other then forcing us to waste our keys. And since we only get 1 free key a day I don't see why this would have ever been such an issue that this change was needed.
.

They had to make the VIP reward of dungeon keys seem worth it somehow. Apparently, this is how. Just like they had to make the Paladin worth it somehow, and they nerfed Lifesteal and Regen to do so. HAMSTER for Tat.

hustin1

regenerde wrote: »

asterdahl wrote: »

We are aware of this issue and looking into solutions. You should still be able to receive your daily cache rewards, and rewards from bosses, in the meantime we recommend holding onto your dungeon keys until we can verify the extent of the issue.

... what about the one-shot issue in epic dungeons from regular/normal attacks?
When will we see a fix for that?

1. Monsters post-mod 6 do 5-10x as much damage.
2. Healing potions post-mod 6 heal for 30-50% more.
3. The healing potion cooldown post-mod 6 is 50% longer (amounting to a total decrease of HP that we can self-heal per second).

Four months in and nothing has changed. Of course, health stones are always for sale in the Zen shop...

In case anyone is wondering, mod 6 has left me well and truly disgusted.

beckylunatic

Hey @asterdahl

Here's a Reddit thread where someone has shared their VT chest drop
https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/3grfkj/got_this_weird_titlelessdescriptionless_item_from/

To me, that sounds like the normal loot but picked up in bag form instead of displayed in the chest, a bit like how running a Dread Ring lair gives you a bag and you don't know what's in the bag until you pick it up. It's a bit weird but not on the level of getting normal-version dungeon loot from the epic dungeons.

Feedback - dungeon/skirmish bonus keys
What I hear about the content involving bonus keys causes me some consternation. People considered it worthwhile to carry these keys because of the assumption that the ability to walk away from the chest and keep your key for another try was a feature. There was initial squabbling as to whether it was a bug or a feature, but players by and large settled on it being intentional because of the cost of the keys. Nobody in their right mind is going to want to spend 60 Zen or 20k AD (+campaign currency) when the chest is probably going to give them a rank 5 enchant. You can loot hundreds of those from skill nodes for nothing. You guys, the devs, were completely silent about this matter when it first came up and have remained so since people first unlocked SoT and LoL, and since the campaign tasks to make bonus keys for Kessel/MC/VT debuted. If it was a bug all along, then you need to *tell us* that it was unintended, and that while we were lucky to be able to take advantage of it for such a long time, that's this is how it is now. If it's unintended and the automatic key consumption is a bug, please also tell us so we can wait for a fix. We don't like undocumented changes where we have no idea which way is or was the bug.

bigredbrent

beckylunatic wrote: »

Hey @asterdahl

Here's a Reddit thread where someone has shared their VT chest drop
https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/3grfkj/got_this_weird_titlelessdescriptionless_item_from/

To me, that sounds like the normal loot but picked up in bag form instead of displayed in the chest, a bit like how running a Dread Ring lair gives you a bag and you don't know what's in the bag until you pick it up. It's a bit weird but not on the level of getting normal-version dungeon loot from the epic dungeons.

Feedback - dungeon/skirmish bonus keys
What I hear about the content involving bonus keys causes me some consternation. People considered it worthwhile to carry these keys because of the assumption that the ability to walk away from the chest and keep your key for another try was a feature. There was initial squabbling as to whether it was a bug or a feature, but players by and large settled on it being intentional because of the cost of the keys. Nobody in their right mind is going to want to spend 60 Zen or 20k AD (+campaign currency) when the chest is probably going to give them a rank 5 enchant. You can loot hundreds of those from skill nodes for nothing. You guys, the devs, were completely silent about this matter when it first came up and have remained so since people first unlocked SoT and LoL, and since the campaign tasks to make bonus keys for Kessel/MC/VT debuted. If it was a bug all along, then you need to *tell us* that it was unintended, and that while we were lucky to be able to take advantage of it for such a long time, that's this is how it is now. If it's unintended and the automatic key consumption is a bug, please also tell us so we can wait for a fix. We don't like undocumented changes where we have no idea which way is or was the bug.

I completely agree with this. I also think that forcing the use of the key is going to drive even more people away from this game. Please tell us that this is a bug and that you should be allowed to see what is in the chest without having to waste a key if you don't like what is in it.

beckylunatic

I don't think anyone is particularly bothered by the basic dungeon chest keys, because the chest gives you slightly more in rough AD than the amount you spend on the key (once you salvage the bound item).

The ones we're worried about are the Legendary Dragon Keys and all of the types crafted via campaigns, because those chests typically aren't worth it. The keys cost a lot compared to the usual drops.

bioshrike

Frankly, the removal of reliable boss drops, coupled with pretty much all gear that you get being BtA/BoP, has made running dungeons into a fruitless experience. If it wasn't for the fact that the Alliance gear was BtA, then I wouldn't bother with them at all.

One solution would be to expand the variety of gear that is available in all categories, (offer a choice of neck items, rings, belts, etc), instead of the limited selection we currently have.

regenerde

... and again, what about the one-shot normal/regular attacks in dungeons/skirmishes?

tassedethe13

regenerde wrote: »

... and again, what about the one-shot normal/regular attacks in dungeons/skirmishes?

What about making your topic in bug or feedback section ?

regenerde

tassedethe13 wrote: »

regenerde wrote: »

... and again, what about the one-shot normal/regular attacks in dungeons/skirmishes?

What about making your topic in bug or feedback section ?

What if there are allready several bug and feedback threads in those forums for days, weeks and even months, without any official answer to it?
Not trying to derail the thread, since this is also about epic dungeons, and while fixing the chest bug, i hope they find time to fix the problem with one-shots in there too.

darkstarcrash

If the key is automatically consumed without peeking -- which really makes sense as a game mechanic -- then the zen or AD costs for those keys has to drop considerably, or the loot table has to drastically change. 5k AD is the maximum the keys should cost for the current loot table.

Unknown

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beckylunatic

Reddit thread on the subject of the Legendary Dragon Keys
https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/3guarb/anyone_notice_the_ninja_dragon_key_nerf/

ireneadl3r

defiantone99 wrote: »

regenerde wrote: »

tassedethe13 wrote: »

regenerde wrote: »

... and again, what about the one-shot normal/regular attacks in dungeons/skirmishes?

What about making your topic in bug or feedback section ?

What if there are allready several bug and feedback threads in those forums for days, weeks and even months, without any official answer to it?
Not trying to derail the thread, since this is also about epic dungeons, and while fixing the chest bug, i hope they find time to fix the problem with one-shots in there too.

I am starting to think they are designed that way. There has been no attention paid to the issue.

Someone asked Strumslinger on the recent livestream if the devs were aware of the issue with mob difficulty in Mod 6, and he said that we should watch out for news about it late this week or early next week. He also mentioned that the devs were looking into healing potions. Whether anything will change for the better, we will just have to wait and see.
Anyway, I do hope that if they decide to make it so the key is consumed before you know the contents of the chests, that the cost of the key goes down by a lot. It's just not feasible to force players to pay so much for such a small return overall, when we're already getting poorer by the day.

beckylunatic

@asterdahl (again)

Heya. I've been mulling over your lengthy response. (Thanks for engaging with us about this, btw.)

When you talk about your original intent with dungeon keys, I remember when they were originally introduced, as a way to allow people to run dungeons on their own schedule rather than Neverwinter's schedule. Your friends are online now but it's not Delves? No problem, you can use dungeon chest keys! It was an either/or... run during Delves and you don't need keys, need to run outside of Delves time and you can opt to use a key. Occasionally it was glitchy, but the intent seemed to be a huge improvement in our gaming lives.

The change that was implemented with both DD and keys, where you actually need BOTH to get any use out of either... that was a kick in the pants. Now you're back on NW's schedule instead of your own, and keys are a fixed expense rather than an option to be rewarded for running dungeons whenever you want. The daily key allotment from VIP really isn't useful for more than a couple of characters unless you manage to run with a crew that's super-adept at speedclearing, since using them is tied to playing during the DD event. More people have fallen into the habit of just running a single dungeon off-schedule (or one from each tier), to get the cache and Rhix daily, because it's not as though the DD rewards are all that rewarding anyway. The increase in seals is going to help with this to a degree.

I'm also thinking on the updates about disabling Gateway Leadership. "In the meantime, we want to make sure our loyal fans that are playing the game are able to still get the Astral Diamonds they need. We are going to re-examine the non-profession methods of getting Astral Diamonds, and make sure they are rewarding sufficiently."

One way of rewarding people with AD for actually playing the game would be to revert to having Delves unlock the dungeon chest for free and dungeon chest keys being usable at any other time. It was a good system for player quality-of-life, and the decision to change it was frankly baffling.

For the bonus keys (Dragon/VT/MC/Kessel), I'll simply restate that the cost of them is much too high compared to the usual junk you can get with them. Previewing bonus chests meant that you could hold out for that infinitesimal chance of an artifact drop or similarly spectacular loot. It might take hundreds of runs to see something that really felt worth using your key on. Both a greatly lowered key cost and a loot table less skewed towards trash would do something towards taking some of the bite out of automatic key use. One suggestion I'd make is to always award an overload enchant instead of only sometimes, in places where this is a possible drop now. Tweaks of that nature.