romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
Well, he came here picking a fight. SS Renegade with Spell Twisting is the most efficient CW build right now. He said it was a myth and starts talking about "but a 2nd CW, blah blah blah...". If anything, he is the one who needs to learn to read, because
I'll just add my 2 cents that with my build, right now I am SS Renegade with Icy Veins, I can solo any minor and any major HE in the Stronghold, but I wouldn't be able to do it without Icy Veins. Because of the Orc Shaman healers in the group. The Icy Veins will kick in and freeze the healer before he's able to heal one of the other mobs.
Unless something changed with Mod 7, Spell Twisting + Icy Viens is the best control setup for a CW. MOF Renegade is the biggest Team DPS boost due to Rene feats + MOF debuffs.
QFT
One reason MoF may be low on paingiver is because MoF often use furious immolation instead of oppressive force. Not only does MoF not push away mobs (which reduces dps of other party members), MoF also pulls mobs into a small circle (which increases dps of other party members). Spellstorm CW could use arcane singularity, but most do not.
From my experience, in dungeons, there is often a "fight" between HR's who pull mob together and CW spellstorm who push mob away with oppressive force, not to mention OP's who toss monsters around. Even though CW's are no longer top dps, many CW still play as though the most efficient way to kill monsters is by maximizing CW dps.
and the party would benefit far more by the control a Thauma/Oppressor brings to the table.
That's debatable. One CW may be sufficient control for the party.
Other classes can control and dps too.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
Spellstorm CW could use arcane singularity, but most do not.
Singularity no longer groups most mobs. In most cases, it's just a waste of AP. It would be real nice, though, if they took a slight push out of OF. There is nothing good about the push.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Here's the thing about the "push" on Oppresive Force...it not that big, and it dazes monsters...which stops them from attacking. So they just run right back to the target that has agro and sort of stand there looking dumbfounded. It's not that big of a deal. There's something to be said for giving your tank a couple seconds of not getting clobbered.
But the difference between MoF and SS right now is that Storm Spell is substantially higher DPS than Smolder. You also pretty much have to give up using Chilling Presence in favor of CC and SoD for a MoF, which hurts as well.
I'd love to see one simple change to the MoF. If an MoF applied Smolder to targets on a critical hit by default, that would close the gap pretty neatly. Then just drop Rimfire all together. Change CC to increase critical severity by 12.5% per rank, and you have really good parity between the two paragon paths.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
@ironzerg79 I'm all for a CW boost, but I wouldn't drop Chilling Presence at all. It's the best class feat for a CW, with or without the +10% crit from the renegade tree. I also don't feel like that a +50% crit severity would be on par with a +60% smolder dmg, +20% damage boost for the whole party, not to mention the overall damage boost of Chilling Presence.
Chilling Presence is a nobrainer and if you're over 100% crit severity(and if we assume you have 100% crit chance, which would be in favor of crit conflag), Swath's 20% damage multiplier outperforms Crit Conflag's 20% crit severity on a personal level (not to mention team damage and the +60% smolder damage). Running Fanning on Tab and Scorching to apply Smolder makes Crit Conflag obsolete. I still don't think that MoF is that far behind compared to SS, tbh.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
But then you're still locked into use Fanning the Flame on tab, and weaving in Scorching Burst. So again, the flexibility of the MoF is limited because of the necessity of applying Smolder. That's the weakness of the MoF...less flexibility than the SS.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited August 2015
So is an SS CW, but with CoI. While it's not necessary, that's what provides the most DPS on tab in an AOE fight. For single target, the MoF has Scorching and Smolder only has to be applied once. Both paths are locked into using a certain combination of encounters/class feats because those are the ones that work best. And if you think about it, CW is the least pigeonholed class right now.
Spellstorm CW could use arcane singularity, but most do not.
Because it offers less control and less damage than OF, and also because AoE powers do 0 effect while mobs are in the singularity.
Singularity lowers the group dps in fact.
Because it offers less control and less damage than OF, and also because AoE powers do 0 effect while mobs are in the singularity.
Singularity lowers the group dps in fact.
When you say that Arcane singularity lowers group dps, you are thinking about a party of multiple CW's, right? Parties of two or more CW is much less common now than one year ago.
When I solo as CW, my goal is to get the entire mob into small area and freeze/control/kill them.
There are some CW who use repel on tab for soloing and it works but much more time is needed to kill monsters.
I can kill monsters with shield on tab faster than I can kill with repel on tab.
This indicates that the fastest way to kill monsters is to put them in a small circle and keep them there as long as possible.
If I am the only CW in a party, then my goal is to get the entire mob into small area, so that ALL PARTY can control/dps.
If there are two or more CW, then the situation is more complex, but this is less common now.
Unfortunately, many monsters are not easily pulled together by arcane singularity and that's a problem.
I don't recommend singularity in all situations.
I have not used arcane singularity recently, but Chill strike on tab has always done damage to mobs under arcane singularity. Has this changed recently? I doubt it.
Which (CW and non-CW) AoE powers don't work under arcane singularity? sudden storm? and what else, especially non-cw powers?
Oppressive force only gives a few seconds of control which is not so much.
By contrast, some HR's can perma-root monsters but that only works in a small circle.
Icy terrain only works in small area too.
Please consider the rest of the party before spreading out the mobsters with OF.
Likewise, CW who uses arcane sing should also consider what effect this daily will have on the party.
I've read through this thread (the timing was fortuitous). Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with all the Jargon used here. I played this game for a while when it first launched back in 2013 and just updated it and logged in last night.
Can any of you experts point me to a guide for the Control Mage class?
I'm level 14 at the moment and still learning the UI, quest navigation, skills etc. I'm trying to just follow the quests but it would be nice to know if grinding is an option and where to do that. Some of the quests I have are a few levels higher than me and are pretty challenging solo.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Comments
doesn't mean that you couldn't come up with a scenario where this build wouldn't fall behind in a certain aspect.
QFT
One reason MoF may be low on paingiver is because MoF often use furious immolation instead of oppressive force. Not only does MoF not push away mobs (which reduces dps of other party members), MoF also pulls mobs into a small circle (which increases dps of other party members). Spellstorm CW could use arcane singularity, but most do not.
From my experience, in dungeons, there is often a "fight" between HR's who pull mob together and CW spellstorm who push mob away with oppressive force, not to mention OP's who toss monsters around. Even though CW's are no longer top dps, many CW still play as though the most efficient way to kill monsters is by maximizing CW dps.
Ask experienced renegade about it.
That's debatable. One CW may be sufficient control for the party.
Other classes can control and dps too.
Singularity no longer groups most mobs. In most cases, it's just a waste of AP. It would be real nice, though, if they took a slight push out of OF. There is nothing good about the push.
But the difference between MoF and SS right now is that Storm Spell is substantially higher DPS than Smolder. You also pretty much have to give up using Chilling Presence in favor of CC and SoD for a MoF, which hurts as well.
I'd love to see one simple change to the MoF. If an MoF applied Smolder to targets on a critical hit by default, that would close the gap pretty neatly. Then just drop Rimfire all together. Change CC to increase critical severity by 12.5% per rank, and you have really good parity between the two paragon paths.
Chilling Presence is a nobrainer and if you're over 100% crit severity(and if we assume you have 100% crit chance, which would be in favor of crit conflag), Swath's 20% damage multiplier outperforms Crit Conflag's 20% crit severity on a personal level (not to mention team damage and the +60% smolder damage). Running Fanning on Tab and Scorching to apply Smolder makes Crit Conflag obsolete. I still don't think that MoF is that far behind compared to SS, tbh.
Because it offers less control and less damage than OF, and also because AoE powers do 0 effect while mobs are in the singularity.
Singularity lowers the group dps in fact.
When you say that Arcane singularity lowers group dps, you are thinking about a party of multiple CW's, right? Parties of two or more CW is much less common now than one year ago.
When I solo as CW, my goal is to get the entire mob into small area and freeze/control/kill them.
There are some CW who use repel on tab for soloing and it works but much more time is needed to kill monsters.
I can kill monsters with shield on tab faster than I can kill with repel on tab.
This indicates that the fastest way to kill monsters is to put them in a small circle and keep them there as long as possible.
If I am the only CW in a party, then my goal is to get the entire mob into small area, so that ALL PARTY can control/dps.
If there are two or more CW, then the situation is more complex, but this is less common now.
Unfortunately, many monsters are not easily pulled together by arcane singularity and that's a problem.
I don't recommend singularity in all situations.
I have not used arcane singularity recently, but Chill strike on tab has always done damage to mobs under arcane singularity. Has this changed recently? I doubt it.
Which (CW and non-CW) AoE powers don't work under arcane singularity? sudden storm? and what else, especially non-cw powers?
Oppressive force only gives a few seconds of control which is not so much.
By contrast, some HR's can perma-root monsters but that only works in a small circle.
Icy terrain only works in small area too.
Please consider the rest of the party before spreading out the mobsters with OF.
Likewise, CW who uses arcane sing should also consider what effect this daily will have on the party.
Can any of you experts point me to a guide for the Control Mage class?
I'm level 14 at the moment and still learning the UI, quest navigation, skills etc. I'm trying to just follow the quests but it would be nice to know if grinding is an option and where to do that. Some of the quests I have are a few levels higher than me and are pretty challenging solo.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!