According to today's release notes, no. They had a problem with the build server, so they never got to deploy it on PTS. It's now scheduled for next week.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Most game that you get for $10 (or less) are single player games. Is it fair to compare an MMO to a game that doesn't have so many special requirements? Is it fair to compare a game with retro graphics to CO?
When TT mentioned the gold cap increase, he said they weren't sure it would even be doable. I don't know why anyone is expecting the new team working on CO to preform miracles considering they weren't around during initial development, the state of the code, and how they need time to get familiar with the system. I see updates happening faster now than when the team first came on-board.
So, people are complaining that nothing the players want is added to the game. I point out there is stuff that players want being added to the game. Now people are complaining that it doesn't count because reasons? Basically, Cryptic is never going to live up to your expectations no matter what they do or don't do. They will always be wrong and always fail.
^This. There aren't many things that I can do to create/improve things that are in-game; it's best to think of me as Captain Support. If Radio and I have a conversation on our chat system about "Huh, I wonder if this is a problem, it might be worth looking at", we can then split and go to work: He goes back to working on something (like bug fixes or new costumes), and I can go do research. Then I can come back with my thoughts, we can talk it through a little more, and I can ping-pong back out into the wilds of data and anecdotes. From an actual dev standpoint, one of the most time-intensive parts of this change was making the price changes and verifying the new prices.
And there you have it. This vaunted Cryptic North "dedicated to CO" is no more than a community rep and one dev.
Your validation was easily your most time intensive effort... cause there's ONLY TWO OF YOU. :biggrin:
I just want to say I appreciated the information sharing. Thank you for that.
Posting the new costume set prices in advance was very useful and I shared it with the other CO forums to assist in everyone's purchase decisions. I myself bought a few sets with my stipend before the upcoming changes.
Meanwhile, I also appreciate March's Glass Slippers. In fact, I've incorporated most of the Monthly Subscriber Bonus Costume Pieces as centrepieces for my toon designs. They are definitely a value-add. I hope to see this tradition continue.
Moreover, I like the Lockbox Stamp costume sets. The Alien Hybrid is my most used set 'cos it's so cool.
Finally, for future 1,000 Zen tier costume sets, if they're on on par with the Holoforce (wot I just got), etc., I for one would be willing to wait for another month's stipend for such great craftsmanship. I got LTS, so what's another month to me?
What I was/continue to be concerned about is something like this:
I'm doing the only thing I really can do at this point: voting with my wallet.
I'm pro-business, which is why I see losing high-CLV, ex-loyal customers and their reoccurring revenue (who would've purchased costume sets as well), for the occasional incremental revenue of this price hike, as such a sub-optimal trade-off that...
...it really kinda sucks.
Now, I don't mean to preach, and it sounds like TrailTurtle and RadioScience have plans, but don't play this price hike card again. I reckon they got a mandate from above to bring their Zen store offerings in-line with the other game, prolly not their fault.
('Cos one can never blame the bosses to customers, especially Chinese ones that want "Face".)
TrailTurtle, RadioScience, when Wanmei push you, push back. Point out price hikes are counter-productive not only causes a demand curve slide, but directly impacts your reoccurring revenue. They'll respect your guts (if you bring data and confidence).
At the time of this post via GOG: 5 copies of Unreal Gold (100 left), which can provide you and 4 friends with countless hours of gameplay in both single and multiplayer.
Probably shouldn't have mentioned GOG during one of their sales
I could hop on steam and surprise my friends with copies of Bad Rats.
Please, by all means, tell me more. More specifically, why "different systems" as opposed to "the original systems that lost them in the 1st place"? I mean, it would get people who do not have these things to go out and run missions...which would mean, likely, more alts....the occasional need for more slots...more bodies seen ingame for newer players...and...money? You cannot sell magazines at a newsstand without a newsstand to display them on which is strong enough to support the weight and draw in the eye. :biggrin:
True, but this is also a giant source of potential rewards. One of the big requirements for a new system is having rewards available for it -- if the rewards don't already exist, you have to build new costume pieces, new items, etc. That's not an insubstantial amount of dev time.
With these available in the wings, if we build out a new system/expand on an existing one, we can focus on making the system itself as fun as possible, confident in the knowledge that the rewards are already pretty good.
According to today's release notes, no. They had a problem with the build server, so they never got to deploy it on PTS. It's now scheduled for next week.
Yeah, Radio is talking around with people to get that problem resolved, but it held up the release of this bugfix.
And there you have it. This vaunted Cryptic North "dedicated to CO" is no more than a community rep and one dev.
Your validation was easily your most time intensive effort... cause there's ONLY TWO OF YOU. :biggrin:
Heh, not so much. We may not have a giant team, but it's not just the two of us. In general, strategic decisions will be talked through by me, the leadership on the CO dev team, and any of our bosses that choose to get involved; bringing in the devs who are in the trenches isn't usually worth their time. Radio touches base with them and updates them in stand-ups and such, but they aren't in the chat channels when we talk these through.
Posting the new costume set prices in advance was very useful and I shared it with the other CO forums to assist in everyone's purchase decisions. I myself bought a few sets with my stipend before the upcoming changes.
...
Now, I don't mean to preach, and it sounds like TrailTurtle and RadioScience have plans, but don't play this price hike card again. I reckon they got a mandate from above to bring their Zen store offerings in-line with the other game, prolly not their fault.
Thanks for spreading the word, I didn't want this to be a surprise to anyone.
Surprisingly enough, that's not the case. We sourced this idea, and got the greenlight from our bosses when it was prepped and planned. I can't speak for Radio's boss (Russell), but my boss is pretty hands-off because he trusts us to run the game and keep it healthy and profitable.
I could hop on steam and surprise my friends with copies of Bad Rats.
Looked this up... kinda squicked out, not going to lie.
Hell, if you want a fun tiny indie game to give people, just send them a link to Iji. Out Of This World-style graphics, decent gunplay, great boss fights, and a surprisingly resonant plot.
Ooh, Out Of This World? That was a great game back in the day... I should see if I can get that running again sometime. And look into this "Iji" thing, too; thanks!
As for using legacy items as rewards for new systems... while I can see the appeal, I'm not sure I agree that's necessarily the right way to go. Right now, people complain about lack of content... in a lot of cases, the content actually exists, it's just not worth doing. For example, the entire VIPER lair in Monster Island; it's a neat place... but there's exactly zero incentive to run it more than once. And the only incentive to run it that once is just to see what's there. Same goes for all the open world events (Bullet for Biselle, the gadroon invasion in Canada, etc.); putting rewards back onto these things would expand the usable content in the game without even requiring new systems.
And to all the people saying this price hike is bad business: There's an interesting thing I learned about F2P games in general. Not sure how much it applies to CO, but a number of other games I've played turned out to make the vast majority of their income from a relatively few 'whales': people willing to pay whatever it takes to have all the shinies, right now. In that context, raising prices makes sense; sure, it annoys the average player... but that's not where most of the income is coming from. Again, don't know how much that applies to CO, but it's an interesting and different perspective from which to think about things.
True, but this is also a giant source of potential rewards. One of the big requirements for a new system is having rewards available for it -- if the rewards don't already exist, you have to build new costume pieces, new items, etc. That's not an insubstantial amount of dev time.
With these available in the wings, if we build out a new system/expand on an existing one, we can focus on making the system itself as fun as possible, confident in the knowledge that the rewards are already pretty good.
Actually, we could both win here considering there is a sizable pool of items from the "On Alert Lost Unlocks" as well as the "Junk sitting in the Live Files which simply are not being used." Put group 1 back in the game as I have requested and then you could split group 2 between "New Systems", "Sellable Z-Store Sets", AND "Restocking the Recog/Q Vendors"....and still have leftovers. Also, if "New Systems" offer Old Stuff that most veteran players already have....not much of an incentive really. Would seem everyone wins the way I've proposed it. :cool:
_____________________________________________________________________________
Sterga:
1. One of the OPTIONS for the use of CO is 0$. My chosen option actually is 10$(or 30$ every 3 months if people want to be super technical about it).
2. I agree with you completely that the 2015 QoL Changes were a positive asked for by the playerbase and delivered on by CN. It does not matter to me how much Old Cryptic dropped the ball on this for the context of this conversation. It simply happened...and good on them for doing it.
_____________________________________________________________________________ neuraldamage:
Don't be silly, CO hasn't only had one dev since the Team Lordgar days. From various business sites and such that were linked around at the time of the aquisition, mixed with data that has shown up here and there since then, I would guestimate CN to be...
Now this may have changed over time but if I am wrong TT is more than welcome to correct me on this issue.
____________________________________________________________________________
morigosa:
From my observations the "NW Whales" are one of the single most obscene versions of this that I've seen in a US Marketed MMO and they tend to blow about 4k per "spree" on lockbox keys...yet, last time I checked, the price of those keys did not go up(they did become BoA in as surprise move though). I'm not mentioning this, really, for anything more than information purposes though. Time will likely show what is/was right for CO. So we shall just have to wait and see.
Don't be silly, CO hasn't only had one dev since the Team Lordgar days. From various business sites and such that were linked around at the time of the aquisition, mixed with data that has shown up here and there since then, I would guestimate CN to be...
Now this may have changed over time but if I am wrong TT is more than welcome to correct me on this issue.
Actually, when the transition first happened and LordGar jumped into the front lines, there was still a team behind him, they just weren't talking much on the forums. On relatively lean teams like ours, it's important that the devs be able to focus on getting things done, so only one or two people will end up on the forums.
after swapping between gold and silver actcs for some adding up;
$448.50 for all the costumes.
Gold free ones-
13 x $3.75
3 x $7.50
1 x $10
$113.75
now;
go to NW and see how much their 1 use costumes are. Since if I remember right, the only acct wide unlocks are ones form special packs for new classes or species.
True, but this is also a giant source of potential rewards. One of the big requirements for a new system is having rewards available for it -- if the rewards don't already exist, you have to build new costume pieces, new items, etc. That's not an insubstantial amount of dev time.
There are actually quite a lot of things unused in files, some of which were never available. However, the main argument for putting some unlocks back where they were is because it refurbishes old content. There are a lot of old mission chains that are rarely if ever run nowadays, and newer players may never even encounter, because nowadays you don't really need to (there's more missions than you need to reach level 40, even if you don't run pure Grab alerts), and there's no real incentive to go finding all those obscure hidden things.
Some of those old missions were trash. Others were not. While a full revamp of old content is a big and probably unrealistic project, some basic QoL adjustments seem like they should be possible.
Scientist set for 600 Zen is still a Horrible Joke
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
$10 for a single costume set in CO seems a little steep, particularly for say Holoforce, which is in the category of "Two useful parts, and the rest <redacted>". By comparison, let us compare to the City of Heroes Mystic Pack, which retailed for $9.99, and pretty much every player in the game picked up. For your ten dollars you got three complete outfit styles, four emotes, and a couple of auras. I'll admit these were 2010 dollars, but still, inflation over the last five years hasn't been *that* bad.
Add the fact that the monthly stipend for Gold is staying the same, this is yet another ding against being a responsible, committed, paying customer.
-
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Actually, when the transition first happened and LordGar jumped into the front lines, there was still a team behind him, they just weren't talking much on the forums. On relatively lean teams like ours, it's important that the devs be able to focus on getting things done, so only one or two people will end up on the forums.
Is it possible that Tumerboy will ever be transferred back from STO? I'd really not mind new types of hideouts, especially the rumored plans that he'd had in mind for Supergroup Bases.
Just another average RPer, costume part collector, and tabletop gamer.
$10 for a single costume set in CO seems a little steep, particularly for say Holoforce, which is in the category of "Two useful parts, and the rest <redacted>".
For you, maybe. I've gotten more than that much use out of the set; in fact, Starbolt's costume is almost entirely Holoforce, using the Psi Holo texture on the floating pieces (his Torso Tights pattern and Collar are from the Sci Fi set, but the rest is Holoforce). With the Metal texture, the Holoforce helmet also fits well with Rifleman (with the Psionic Dragon Eye Accessory for a visor). And if your toon is the sort that has energy armor that only comes up in combat, choose the Holo texture, then color it black and choose a Combat Only aura; the Holoforce piece then becomes invisible until it's backlit by the aura. (I've been considering that as an upgrade to Patchwork's cybernetics.)
On the other tentacle, there are folks singing the praises of the Wizard set, and so far I've only used two pieces of that (the Wizard jacket makes a nice swashbuckling jacket for Finesse, and Dr. Destiny uses the version of the Belt that doesn't have all the pouches and vials on it). The rest is worthless to me - but plainly not to others.
Please, there are enough people on the Internet confusing their personal preferences with Absolute Truth - can we possibly avoid it here?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Is it possible that Tumerboy will ever be transferred back from STO? I'd really not mind new types of hideouts, especially the rumored plans that he'd had in mind for Supergroup Bases.
Unlikely, unfortunately. Among other things, Tumerboy is based in Los Gatos, while the rest of the Champs team is in Seattle.
For your ten dollars you got three complete outfit styles, four emotes, and a couple of auras.
This here would totally be worth the $10, hands down, day one, cash buy.
But for as nice as psi-dragon, cosmic, and holoforce were, they're just not worth the increased price for a single costume. While the content weve seen from CN isn't bad, i really don't feel like we would be getting a whole lot of return from this increase either. There really is nothing in this game worth $10, and that's including the membership at this point. If you really wanted more money for nothing, you should be dropping the prices of everything in the store. More people would start buy if things weren't so outrageously priced for a mostly dead game. More people would be willing to buy if prices more accurately reflected their actual value rather than new MMO prices for a game that's only real development is primarily unlocking things already in game. (no offense)
People like that we're getting at least something, which is better than Cryptic has done in years for this game, but for the current state of it all... prices are just too high across the board. I don't speak for everyone, but there are too many things in the c-store that i will not buy because the going price is a joke. and that's coming from a lifer with a stippend. Because there is nothing worth while, i can save a huge amount, and even then i still won't buy most things. At this point, it would be entirely "free", and yet still, it's just too expensive for how little we're getting out of them.
I know i'm not the only one either.
If you want more money, give us something to believe in, not just another cryptic flavored pill to swallow.
So basically you are screwing all of us by rasing your prices. For those of us who PAID for this game, are you going to RAISE our monthly ZEN allowance or are we just nobodies to you?
This here would totally be worth the $10, hands down, day one, cash buy.
But for as nice as psi-dragon, cosmic, and holoforce were, they're just not worth the increased price for a single costume. While the content weve seen from CN isn't bad, i really don't feel like we would be getting a whole lot of return from this increase either. There really is nothing in this game worth $10, and that's including the membership at this point. If you really wanted more money for nothing, you should be dropping the prices of everything in the store. More people would start buy if things weren't so outrageously priced for a mostly dead game. More people would be willing to buy if prices more accurately reflected their actual value rather than new MMO prices for a game that's only real development is primarily unlocking things already in game. (no offense)
People like that we're getting at least something, which is better than Cryptic has done in years for this game, but for the current state of it all... prices are just too high across the board. I don't speak for everyone, but there are too many things in the c-store that i will not buy because the going price is a joke. and that's coming from a lifer with a stippend. Because there is nothing worth while, i can save a huge amount, and even then i still won't buy most things. At this point, it would be entirely "free", and yet still, it's just too expensive for how little we're getting out of them.
I know i'm not the only one either.
If you want more money, give us something to believe in, not just another cryptic flavored pill to swallow.
I agree with this. Though they have done many little things that feel like they could lead toward something big, without hearing any sort of game plan, I am just going to assume they have none.
Though its not like I am going to go anywhere anyway -_-
So basically you are screwing all of us by rasing your prices. For those of us who PAID for this game, are you going to RAISE our monthly ZEN allowance or are we just nobodies to you?
Financially speaking, we've been nobodies to them for years now. All of this uproar hasn't changed a thing, after all.
Financially speaking, we've been nobodies to them for years now. All of this uproar hasn't changed a thing, after all.
Ain't that the truth.
It does make you appreciate what little we do get, from devs that take pity and their off time, to deliver, but really it just makes me resent/mistrust/dislike Cryptic that much more.
The individual Devs are usually pretty cool, but as a company, Cryptic over hypes, over charges, underperforms, under develops, halfasses everything, doesn't care for the games or the fans or the IPs (or sometimes the employees), etc...
It's just a shame, given the potential greatness of their games.
Needless to say, my wallet is shut to them from now on. No more real money for Cryptic games.
Okay, What then? we all live in Peace & Harmony, their are no problems in the world and if any arise, we can fix it by working together and it's all for the benefit of humankind, nope sorry, try again...
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Okay, What then? we all live in Peace & Harmony, their are no problems in the world and if any arise, we can fix it by working together and it's all for the benefit of humankind, nope sorry, try again...
World isn't a kindergarten because human nature is flawed. Things can happen by accident. And human race is not perfect.
There's no corporate plot. No secret agenda to screw over a common man.
All this conspiration theories are mental placebos for people who simply can't accept that world is not a perfect place by itself, never was and never will be and stuff can be happening by chaos, accident and human stupidity alone.
That's true. People just think there's some kind of conspiracy, when in fact, it's just people with the same goals acting the same way because it works.
After consideration: Am I the only one that thinks complaining about a price increase after cryptic laid of 18 people is *insane*? We chug along, but if cryptic folds we all do. Perspective guys. If I'da known that was pending I'd have never commented in this thread.
If our money goes to other games? You know what? GOOD. That means the studio keeps going and we don't lose our happy avatar chat. Our fun as hell game for those of us who still play it for an actual mmo. What that price increase bought, flat out, was more time for CO to stay afloat. I hate seeming like a cheerleader (in fact, I play the opposite role when needs dictate) but come on. We've gotten a few hints that CO is unaffected. That means that their other games are kinda having some issues. Is anyone in this thread naive enough to think cryptic will continue on the strengths of CO alone? Our costumes are still comparable to the rest of their titles.
All things considered, this helps keep the lights on. Agree or disagree, that's just my 2c.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Agreed, Taco, IF a price increase actually helps the big final number. It's not a given that this will be the case, since many items have probably been moved into the "not worth it" category for a number of consumers. Better to turn a small profit with some sales than none at all because your prices are too high.
To use the well-worn poster child here, I can't fathom that anybody would ever contemplate buying the Scientist set at $6. Yes, it's only a small increase, but its a set that many didn't feel was worth $4.75; even a small increase is enough to make up many people's minds to just not pick it up.
I don't think this will ultimately be the case, because it isnt a substantial jack on most items (hopefully this will be true with new stuff as well), and most who buy costumes to begin with won't balk at a couple extra bucks. Just saying it's a possibility.
Honestly, don't care about the prices going up or down on the sets. They're a business. They want more cash. Ok, cool. What I do care about is these buzzwords "Quality" and "Polish" being tossed around and just not really seeing it. Some of the older sets, IMO, blow some of the newer sets out of the water(course the opposite is also true, it's case by case).
Then we look at PTS on this subject and....why are we looking at PTS on this subject? The overall design, implimentation, and scheduling of the PTS Process is hit and miss on it's best days. Recently, it kinda feels like they put something there, people test it, reports are made,.....and it's Live with maybe, if we're lucky, a chunk or two of that "polish" being applied. Honestly, I don't even really fault Meatiator(likely the guy making this stuff) for it because if there's not enough time to get the job done right...what can you really do?
When it comes to costumes I follow a few rules:
1. If I pile a bunch of junk on it and it clips...that's on me. It's my call whether to do that. Clip-Fu is an art form.
2. If I pile NOTHING on it and it clips either with itself,the base model itself, or the other pieces of the set it's designed to go with...that's on Cryptic North. It's like the old joke that Cryptic never once looked at a costume set it was making from the back.
3. Holoforce showed me what Meatiator could do. Scientist showed me what it looks like when that particular train plows into a brick wall. You give me more Holoforce Quality and I'll give you more money. You give me more Scientist....good luck with that.
Yes, the layoffs thing is sad and unfortunate BUT, as horrid as this sounds, it's a business and I'm a consumer. Sell me the goods, I buy the goods, and you get the money. If it's not worth the value...then I make do with what I've got.
Also, repeating this bit for the bajillionth time, if CO needs money they could basically print the stuff right now with little to no effort based on the unused unlocks sitting in the live files(not the Lost On Alert Unlocks, I mean other stuff ontop of that) of which a ton of them have never been used for anything. Yet.....it's mysteriously not happening.
If Cryptic wants to make money, they would make all their items affordable for everyone. Large profits are made off the number of items sold, not the price of the item. Not by charging the price of an 8 hour expansion pack of a triple A game. If I got 8 hours of game play (not including farming) I would pay that price.
Cryptic needs to learn that this game isn't doing so well solely because of lack of regular content being added. Cosmetics are keeping it afloat alone and that's telling. Now imagine the kind of income it can get with something new to play being added every couple of months. That profit happens from more players buying cheaply priced items. Not by trying to bankrupt a few players.
You don't get that without ensuring new players that this game is going somewhere. No new content? Dead end. The mentality of anyone new to this game.
If Cryptic wants to make money, they would make all their items affordable for everyone. Large profits are made off the number of items sold, not the price of the item.
That... really isn't true. Look up price elasticity of demand. I have no idea whether the price increase makes economic sense, but blanket statements like that are nonsense.
I'm a lifetime subscriber and logging on to spend my stipend to get a new costume set with a monthly stipend was one of the factors that enticed me to drop that level of cash. As an altaholic and role-player, this has always been one of the things that I looked forward to the most in the game. It's been a crazy month, working lots of OT currently to make ends meet, so haven't been able to get in the game at all this month. I'm also not a frequent forum reader, so when I logged on last night looking forward to using my stipend and saw the change...it was an unpleasant surprise to say the least. Bad enough that it sapped my desire to play and I immediately shut the game down with a bad taste in my mouth and went to do something else with my limited free time. Was that the effect that was hoped for with this change?
I get that the game needs to make money. I support it when and where I can with occasional Zen purchases, and when I had the money for it I bought a lifetime subscription at full price a couple of years back. I can see and possibly understand FUTURE costume PACKS being priced higher. As someone mentioned, with CoH 10.00 got you three GOOD costume sets, a couple of emotes, and a travel power. THAT was a good value. 10.00 for just the Holoforce? Not so much. $6.00 for the Scientist? Not a chance.
If future costume sets were going to be the quality and quantity of pieces/textures of Holoforce (at minimum) then maybe they'd be worth $6-7. If you want to push the price into double digits it really needs to have more than just one costume set in it. The Power-Armor bundle? Ok...can kinda see it. So while I would not like to see the price on future sets increase, if they were quality then I could understand it.
But raising the price on existing sets, many of which have documented bugs or were lower quality or fewer pieces than people had expected or hoped for? I can tell you that when I saw that I was not enticed to hop on and buy some extra zen to make up the difference for me to get a costume set this month. Now I'll be stuck waiting for two months stipend to get a costume set.
As a fellow lifetimer, I don't see the issue with that, Brass. It's not like there's a new costume set coming out every month.
It's my hope that this will inspire future costume sets to reach for the Holoforce/Psi Dragon level of quality, however. (We'll see when there is a new costume set, I suppose - at least, one that isn't Lockbox-specific.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Comments
According to today's release notes, no. They had a problem with the build server, so they never got to deploy it on PTS. It's now scheduled for next week.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Most game that you get for $10 (or less) are single player games. Is it fair to compare an MMO to a game that doesn't have so many special requirements? Is it fair to compare a game with retro graphics to CO?
When TT mentioned the gold cap increase, he said they weren't sure it would even be doable. I don't know why anyone is expecting the new team working on CO to preform miracles considering they weren't around during initial development, the state of the code, and how they need time to get familiar with the system. I see updates happening faster now than when the team first came on-board.
So, people are complaining that nothing the players want is added to the game. I point out there is stuff that players want being added to the game. Now people are complaining that it doesn't count because reasons? Basically, Cryptic is never going to live up to your expectations no matter what they do or don't do. They will always be wrong and always fail.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
And there you have it. This vaunted Cryptic North "dedicated to CO" is no more than a community rep and one dev.
Your validation was easily your most time intensive effort... cause there's ONLY TWO OF YOU. :biggrin:
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
I just want to say I appreciated the information sharing. Thank you for that.
Posting the new costume set prices in advance was very useful and I shared it with the other CO forums to assist in everyone's purchase decisions. I myself bought a few sets with my stipend before the upcoming changes.
Meanwhile, I also appreciate March's Glass Slippers. In fact, I've incorporated most of the Monthly Subscriber Bonus Costume Pieces as centrepieces for my toon designs. They are definitely a value-add. I hope to see this tradition continue.
Moreover, I like the Lockbox Stamp costume sets. The Alien Hybrid is my most used set 'cos it's so cool.
Finally, for future 1,000 Zen tier costume sets, if they're on on par with the Holoforce (wot I just got), etc., I for one would be willing to wait for another month's stipend for such great craftsmanship. I got LTS, so what's another month to me?
What I was/continue to be concerned about is something like this:
I'm pro-business, which is why I see losing high-CLV, ex-loyal customers and their reoccurring revenue (who would've purchased costume sets as well), for the occasional incremental revenue of this price hike, as such a sub-optimal trade-off that...
...it really kinda sucks.
Now, I don't mean to preach, and it sounds like TrailTurtle and RadioScience have plans, but don't play this price hike card again. I reckon they got a mandate from above to bring their Zen store offerings in-line with the other game, prolly not their fault.
('Cos one can never blame the bosses to customers, especially Chinese ones that want "Face".)
TrailTurtle, RadioScience, when Wanmei push you, push back. Point out price hikes are counter-productive not only causes a demand curve slide, but directly impacts your reoccurring revenue. They'll respect your guts (if you bring data and confidence).
More action at Champions Online Comics @ http://co-comics.webs.com
I could hop on steam and surprise my friends with copies of Bad Rats.
True, but this is also a giant source of potential rewards. One of the big requirements for a new system is having rewards available for it -- if the rewards don't already exist, you have to build new costume pieces, new items, etc. That's not an insubstantial amount of dev time.
With these available in the wings, if we build out a new system/expand on an existing one, we can focus on making the system itself as fun as possible, confident in the knowledge that the rewards are already pretty good.
Yeah, Radio is talking around with people to get that problem resolved, but it held up the release of this bugfix.
Heh, not so much. We may not have a giant team, but it's not just the two of us. In general, strategic decisions will be talked through by me, the leadership on the CO dev team, and any of our bosses that choose to get involved; bringing in the devs who are in the trenches isn't usually worth their time. Radio touches base with them and updates them in stand-ups and such, but they aren't in the chat channels when we talk these through.
Thanks for spreading the word, I didn't want this to be a surprise to anyone.
Surprisingly enough, that's not the case. We sourced this idea, and got the greenlight from our bosses when it was prepped and planned. I can't speak for Radio's boss (Russell), but my boss is pretty hands-off because he trusts us to run the game and keep it healthy and profitable.
Looked this up... kinda squicked out, not going to lie.
Hell, if you want a fun tiny indie game to give people, just send them a link to Iji. Out Of This World-style graphics, decent gunplay, great boss fights, and a surprisingly resonant plot.
As for using legacy items as rewards for new systems... while I can see the appeal, I'm not sure I agree that's necessarily the right way to go. Right now, people complain about lack of content... in a lot of cases, the content actually exists, it's just not worth doing. For example, the entire VIPER lair in Monster Island; it's a neat place... but there's exactly zero incentive to run it more than once. And the only incentive to run it that once is just to see what's there. Same goes for all the open world events (Bullet for Biselle, the gadroon invasion in Canada, etc.); putting rewards back onto these things would expand the usable content in the game without even requiring new systems.
And to all the people saying this price hike is bad business: There's an interesting thing I learned about F2P games in general. Not sure how much it applies to CO, but a number of other games I've played turned out to make the vast majority of their income from a relatively few 'whales': people willing to pay whatever it takes to have all the shinies, right now. In that context, raising prices makes sense; sure, it annoys the average player... but that's not where most of the income is coming from. Again, don't know how much that applies to CO, but it's an interesting and different perspective from which to think about things.
Well then, I'll poke that bear. An arc news post and launcher note would do a world of wonders in the telling of the people who avoid the forum.
Actually, we could both win here considering there is a sizable pool of items from the "On Alert Lost Unlocks" as well as the "Junk sitting in the Live Files which simply are not being used." Put group 1 back in the game as I have requested and then you could split group 2 between "New Systems", "Sellable Z-Store Sets", AND "Restocking the Recog/Q Vendors"....and still have leftovers. Also, if "New Systems" offer Old Stuff that most veteran players already have....not much of an incentive really. Would seem everyone wins the way I've proposed it. :cool:
_____________________________________________________________________________
Sterga:
1. One of the OPTIONS for the use of CO is 0$. My chosen option actually is 10$(or 30$ every 3 months if people want to be super technical about it).
2. I agree with you completely that the 2015 QoL Changes were a positive asked for by the playerbase and delivered on by CN. It does not matter to me how much Old Cryptic dropped the ball on this for the context of this conversation. It simply happened...and good on them for doing it.
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neuraldamage:
Don't be silly, CO hasn't only had one dev since the Team Lordgar days. From various business sites and such that were linked around at the time of the aquisition, mixed with data that has shown up here and there since then, I would guestimate CN to be...
Lordgar
Russel
Radioscience
Trailturtle
12 Devs(including Meatiator)
Now this may have changed over time but if I am wrong TT is more than welcome to correct me on this issue.
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morigosa:
From my observations the "NW Whales" are one of the single most obscene versions of this that I've seen in a US Marketed MMO and they tend to blow about 4k per "spree" on lockbox keys...yet, last time I checked, the price of those keys did not go up(they did become BoA in as surprise move though). I'm not mentioning this, really, for anything more than information purposes though. Time will likely show what is/was right for CO. So we shall just have to wait and see.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Actually, when the transition first happened and LordGar jumped into the front lines, there was still a team behind him, they just weren't talking much on the forums. On relatively lean teams like ours, it's important that the devs be able to focus on getting things done, so only one or two people will end up on the forums.
$448.50 for all the costumes.
Gold free ones-
13 x $3.75
3 x $7.50
1 x $10
$113.75
now;
go to NW and see how much their 1 use costumes are. Since if I remember right, the only acct wide unlocks are ones form special packs for new classes or species.
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Some of those old missions were trash. Others were not. While a full revamp of old content is a big and probably unrealistic project, some basic QoL adjustments seem like they should be possible.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Scientist set for 600 Zen is still a Horrible Joke
$10 for a single costume set in CO seems a little steep, particularly for say Holoforce, which is in the category of "Two useful parts, and the rest <redacted>". By comparison, let us compare to the City of Heroes Mystic Pack, which retailed for $9.99, and pretty much every player in the game picked up. For your ten dollars you got three complete outfit styles, four emotes, and a couple of auras. I'll admit these were 2010 dollars, but still, inflation over the last five years hasn't been *that* bad.
Add the fact that the monthly stipend for Gold is staying the same, this is yet another ding against being a responsible, committed, paying customer.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
Is it possible that Tumerboy will ever be transferred back from STO? I'd really not mind new types of hideouts, especially the rumored plans that he'd had in mind for Supergroup Bases.
Looking for a lore-based Superhero RPSG? Why not http://earth-guard.shivtr.com/?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
On the other tentacle, there are folks singing the praises of the Wizard set, and so far I've only used two pieces of that (the Wizard jacket makes a nice swashbuckling jacket for Finesse, and Dr. Destiny uses the version of the Belt that doesn't have all the pouches and vials on it). The rest is worthless to me - but plainly not to others.
Please, there are enough people on the Internet confusing their personal preferences with Absolute Truth - can we possibly avoid it here?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Unlikely, unfortunately. Among other things, Tumerboy is based in Los Gatos, while the rest of the Champs team is in Seattle.
This here would totally be worth the $10, hands down, day one, cash buy.
But for as nice as psi-dragon, cosmic, and holoforce were, they're just not worth the increased price for a single costume. While the content weve seen from CN isn't bad, i really don't feel like we would be getting a whole lot of return from this increase either. There really is nothing in this game worth $10, and that's including the membership at this point. If you really wanted more money for nothing, you should be dropping the prices of everything in the store. More people would start buy if things weren't so outrageously priced for a mostly dead game. More people would be willing to buy if prices more accurately reflected their actual value rather than new MMO prices for a game that's only real development is primarily unlocking things already in game. (no offense)
People like that we're getting at least something, which is better than Cryptic has done in years for this game, but for the current state of it all... prices are just too high across the board. I don't speak for everyone, but there are too many things in the c-store that i will not buy because the going price is a joke. and that's coming from a lifer with a stippend. Because there is nothing worth while, i can save a huge amount, and even then i still won't buy most things. At this point, it would be entirely "free", and yet still, it's just too expensive for how little we're getting out of them.
I know i'm not the only one either.
If you want more money, give us something to believe in, not just another cryptic flavored pill to swallow.
I agree with this. Though they have done many little things that feel like they could lead toward something big, without hearing any sort of game plan, I am just going to assume they have none.
Though its not like I am going to go anywhere anyway -_-
Financially speaking, we've been nobodies to them for years now. All of this uproar hasn't changed a thing, after all.
Swords and Shields!
Plant Abilities!
Ain't that the truth.
It does make you appreciate what little we do get, from devs that take pity and their off time, to deliver, but really it just makes me resent/mistrust/dislike Cryptic that much more.
The individual Devs are usually pretty cool, but as a company, Cryptic over hypes, over charges, underperforms, under develops, halfasses everything, doesn't care for the games or the fans or the IPs (or sometimes the employees), etc...
It's just a shame, given the potential greatness of their games.
Needless to say, my wallet is shut to them from now on. No more real money for Cryptic games.
Ever.
Okay, What then? we all live in Peace & Harmony, their are no problems in the world and if any arise, we can fix it by working together and it's all for the benefit of humankind, nope sorry, try again...
Truth Seeker
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
World isn't a kindergarten because human nature is flawed. Things can happen by accident. And human race is not perfect.
There's no corporate plot. No secret agenda to screw over a common man.
All this conspiration theories are mental placebos for people who simply can't accept that world is not a perfect place by itself, never was and never will be and stuff can be happening by chaos, accident and human stupidity alone.
Try again.
That's right, the agenda is not secret at all. It's all performed in plain sight.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
If our money goes to other games? You know what? GOOD. That means the studio keeps going and we don't lose our happy avatar chat. Our fun as hell game for those of us who still play it for an actual mmo. What that price increase bought, flat out, was more time for CO to stay afloat. I hate seeming like a cheerleader (in fact, I play the opposite role when needs dictate) but come on. We've gotten a few hints that CO is unaffected. That means that their other games are kinda having some issues. Is anyone in this thread naive enough to think cryptic will continue on the strengths of CO alone? Our costumes are still comparable to the rest of their titles.
All things considered, this helps keep the lights on. Agree or disagree, that's just my 2c.
RIP Caine
To use the well-worn poster child here, I can't fathom that anybody would ever contemplate buying the Scientist set at $6. Yes, it's only a small increase, but its a set that many didn't feel was worth $4.75; even a small increase is enough to make up many people's minds to just not pick it up.
I don't think this will ultimately be the case, because it isnt a substantial jack on most items (hopefully this will be true with new stuff as well), and most who buy costumes to begin with won't balk at a couple extra bucks. Just saying it's a possibility.
Honestly, don't care about the prices going up or down on the sets. They're a business. They want more cash. Ok, cool. What I do care about is these buzzwords "Quality" and "Polish" being tossed around and just not really seeing it. Some of the older sets, IMO, blow some of the newer sets out of the water(course the opposite is also true, it's case by case).
Then we look at PTS on this subject and....why are we looking at PTS on this subject? The overall design, implimentation, and scheduling of the PTS Process is hit and miss on it's best days. Recently, it kinda feels like they put something there, people test it, reports are made,.....and it's Live with maybe, if we're lucky, a chunk or two of that "polish" being applied. Honestly, I don't even really fault Meatiator(likely the guy making this stuff) for it because if there's not enough time to get the job done right...what can you really do?
When it comes to costumes I follow a few rules:
1. If I pile a bunch of junk on it and it clips...that's on me. It's my call whether to do that. Clip-Fu is an art form.
2. If I pile NOTHING on it and it clips either with itself,the base model itself, or the other pieces of the set it's designed to go with...that's on Cryptic North. It's like the old joke that Cryptic never once looked at a costume set it was making from the back.
3. Holoforce showed me what Meatiator could do. Scientist showed me what it looks like when that particular train plows into a brick wall. You give me more Holoforce Quality and I'll give you more money. You give me more Scientist....good luck with that.
Yes, the layoffs thing is sad and unfortunate BUT, as horrid as this sounds, it's a business and I'm a consumer. Sell me the goods, I buy the goods, and you get the money. If it's not worth the value...then I make do with what I've got.
Also, repeating this bit for the bajillionth time, if CO needs money they could basically print the stuff right now with little to no effort based on the unused unlocks sitting in the live files(not the Lost On Alert Unlocks, I mean other stuff ontop of that) of which a ton of them have never been used for anything. Yet.....it's mysteriously not happening.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Cryptic needs to learn that this game isn't doing so well solely because of lack of regular content being added. Cosmetics are keeping it afloat alone and that's telling. Now imagine the kind of income it can get with something new to play being added every couple of months. That profit happens from more players buying cheaply priced items. Not by trying to bankrupt a few players.
You don't get that without ensuring new players that this game is going somewhere. No new content? Dead end. The mentality of anyone new to this game.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I get that the game needs to make money. I support it when and where I can with occasional Zen purchases, and when I had the money for it I bought a lifetime subscription at full price a couple of years back. I can see and possibly understand FUTURE costume PACKS being priced higher. As someone mentioned, with CoH 10.00 got you three GOOD costume sets, a couple of emotes, and a travel power. THAT was a good value. 10.00 for just the Holoforce? Not so much. $6.00 for the Scientist? Not a chance.
If future costume sets were going to be the quality and quantity of pieces/textures of Holoforce (at minimum) then maybe they'd be worth $6-7. If you want to push the price into double digits it really needs to have more than just one costume set in it. The Power-Armor bundle? Ok...can kinda see it. So while I would not like to see the price on future sets increase, if they were quality then I could understand it.
But raising the price on existing sets, many of which have documented bugs or were lower quality or fewer pieces than people had expected or hoped for? I can tell you that when I saw that I was not enticed to hop on and buy some extra zen to make up the difference for me to get a costume set this month. Now I'll be stuck waiting for two months stipend to get a costume set.
It's my hope that this will inspire future costume sets to reach for the Holoforce/Psi Dragon level of quality, however. (We'll see when there is a new costume set, I suppose - at least, one that isn't Lockbox-specific.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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