In my experience, whenever people say, "It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing!" - it's the money.
Calling me a liar are ya? Of course it's the f'ing principle. I'll spend $10 on a meal and not even blink.
Apart from a massive fanboi stick up the butt, what would even make you think that increased prices are going to ensure quality work given what we've seen thus far?
If they were saying a costume pass with bug-fixes, opened categories, new textures etc... was the reason for the increases, then fine.
But as is... thinking that this is anything other than TT and Radio (and why do they have "spare cycles" anyway??) going to the PWE Executives and saying, "look we've found a way to make you more money FROM EXISTING ASSETS" is ludicrous.
So many things to do to improve this game and revamping costume prices is the most critical? Rrright....
Calling me a liar are ya? Of course it's the f'ing principle.
And where was your "principle" when the prices were lower? Why is costume quality suddenly an issue only when the price increases (on most, decreases on some)?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Ok this is aimed at the "but its more than stipend so it'll take more than a month to get people"
What did you do before stipend was introduced did you not buy costume sets or did you spend real money?
Have you considered the very fact that your not spending real world cash in the cash store and instead only spending stipend is part of the reason for the change?
Hell if your first generation lifer and in the above description your effectively a drain on the cash flow your playing for free and getting the cool stuff for free as well.
and on a closing note you could just make up the difference between stipend and costume set by converting Q to Zen. You know just a though actually play the game you want the pretty clothes for?
Trailturtle, I need you to read this and take it to heart. Mind you, this is not me pulling a punch.
For the last few months, years in some cases- there have been some bugs that just persist. They are not being fixed. They have not even been addressed in some cases.
You and Radio weren't 'wrong' for finding disparity in the costume sets. But like it was said before, if you logged on and THAT was the problem that stuck out at you after playing around in the tailor? I can't think you're paying attention to this game, the community, or the forums. If pricing was the major concern you have, then you're really misplacing your care for this game.
More likely it was something that could be tackled without pulling resources (and lets face it limited ones) from else where.
First thing is first, and I don't think it's asking too much- but how about we compile a list of CONFIRMED costume bugs for you. When the devs can acknowledge those bug and give us an idea on their plan to fix that, THEN you'll be within your rights to start discussing price changes.
PROVE that you're listening to us. We'll do the research FOR YOU. Give us a deadline, we'll compile it, and have one of your forum-jockeys copy/paste that into the first post.
Oh, and don't think it doesn't seem a bit suspicious that you're doing this price raise after you've released some baller costumes in lockboxes and seen how much we're willing to pay for a good set by gambling.
I hope there going to do this any ways and if this is the start of them showing some much needed interest in the quality and make up of the Z store costume sets (lock box ones seem to be getting the bells and whistles this weather) then I hope if not expect the testing/quality of the finished sets to be up to scratch there should be no more plain to see spotted in the fist days of testing bugs with costumes any more especially something priced as premium.
And where was your "principle" when the prices were lower? Why is costume quality suddenly an issue only when the price increases (on most, decreases on some)?
I can equally respond:
"Where was the pricing concern when the devs were cranking out worthless costumes, and why is it a concern now when we've been barking about these issues for YEARS in some cases?"
You can't sit there with a straight face and say no one has raised hell about the countless, persistent, and flat-out ignored costume bugs.
Just wanted to chime in real quick and thank you for this post. I have not, honestly, laughed that hard at a forum post in a very very long time. Steam Greenlight does have some solid games but for 2014 it was a no-standards example of some of the worst examples of gaming. Using that as an attempt at an actual leverage point makes me far more apprehensive than actually curious to look into something.
I do not mean this to invalidate your opinion since you have the right to an opinion here just as I do(just not that particular point cause it's pretty laughable at best)...just I found this literally laugh out loud hilarious and could not resist replying. Thank goodness I wasn't drinking a hot beverage at the time. :biggrin:
Also, please, enough with the Spiritual Successor Commercials. Just to be perfectly clear there is ONE Spiritual Successor in 2015 and it involves a little robot boy with a gun arm. :cool:
Well I wasn't trying to use that as leverage for anything, I'm just stating a fact. Between CO and DCUO, there aren't really any great Super Hero MMO's on the Market (of this style, if you count Marvel Heroes). By the end of that year, the number will double (if you don't count MH). If the two games out are in a bad shape when two shiny new next gen versions of the better Super MMO comes out, they're going to be in even more trouble.
That's not an opinion of mine, but just a statement about turning away players with more competition around the corner. To be honest, I'm not expecting much from Valiance Online hitting steam, because it will be a Alpha build at the best. Personally, I'm looking forward to City of Titans, way more. The issue remains though, that it's something new and possibly different, meaning numbers here will drop, especially with the growing trend of extended betas happening with online games. People will log in and play, even if it's bad, just to see where it's going or how it grows.
I'm not trying to make a commercial or use it as a threat or what have you, I'm just saying that caution might be better for business until they can assess the competition coming. With a lot of the other quality issues going on, a price raise doesn't seem like the right move without something more palpable. It they're going to raise the cost, they might want to toss in something to sweeten the deal a little more. Maybe include themed weapon packs with the 1000z costume packs. Maybe add a variant costume of the same theme, to justify the price hike. Look at the Psi dragon and hologram armor. They had great value as a single costume, but if they were both sold as a single $10 pack, that would be an instant buy. I dropped real money for both, but raising price for an individual set just seems in poor taste without that something extra. I wouldn't mind paying the $10 if the value were there, and I think others probably feel the same way. Not everyone, nor am I trying to speak for anyone other than myself, but over all, there seem to be more people saying nay, than yay. Just look at how bad STO's forums are. People don't really feel like Cryptic is listening.
Plus, 9 doesn't seem so much as a spiritual successor as much as it is a man returning to his old well after nintendo abandoned it. It looks nice from the stuff they're showing, but unless they're saving the good stuff for last, it doesn't really look like it's going to be bringing anything new to the table.
"Where was the pricing concern when the devs were cranking out worthless costumes, and why is it a concern now when we've been barking about these issues for YEARS in some cases?"
You can't sit there with a straight face and say no one has raised hell about the countless, persistent, and flat-out ignored costume bugs.
I personally loved the quality of the new costume sets, but even though the fan designed sets were awesome, it seems like the Cryptic ones are still buggy and or clipping. Even the weapon skins seem to be having issues in the tailor. While some of the stuff is of higher quality, other stuff just doesn't seem to be getting that same attention. Why should we pay more for something as it should be, rather than things that were just kind of tossed out there. There's other ways they could add value to the price increase, but instead of making it a worthwhile change, they're just upping the price because they know the "whales" will just go ahead and buy it anyway.
So, TT, despite massive out-lash on this thread and in-game, they're still going forward with the price hike?
Define "massive".
Forum-goers account for a fraction of the game's actual overall population. An instance of seeing complaints about it in zone chat doesn't come across as massive considering not everyone routinely chats in zone, also not to mention people have been crying doom and how the game's going to die for ages by now over in zone.
At the end of the day, the money speaks volumes. If there's suddenly a very significant drop in costume sales due to the price hike over a period of time and that the prices get readjusted back to what they were used to, then we can safely assume that the hike was objectively a bad idea all along.
If you think a costume set has crap quality, don't buy it. I see people complaining about how terrible a set is and then go ahead and buy the damn thing anyway. At some point, personal responsibility needs to kick in instead of blaming Cryptic for everything. The Scientist and Anime sets are disappointing as far as I'm concerned. Guess what I'm not going to do. Buy them. But I'm not going to sit here and ream Cryptic for charging more for a bunch of fluff. Especially when that price is still cheap.
This is well spoken. Also, I'd like to add that even if you have a lot of unused ZEN built up from your gold stipends and just want to blow it on a costume set you don't even really want for the sake of spending excess ZEN, and you're against the hike, simply don't buy it.
Fingers crossed they use this as an excuse to add cheap costume packs of miscellaneous items that were previously removed from the game. If we had an influx of cheap costume stuff that currently could not be justified being sold at full price, how many of you whiners would end up feeling kind of silly about this whole thing?
wraithshadow13:
1. It's possible but that's still alot of "If" in the equation.
2. When Inafune says Spiritual Successor....I'm gonna go with that.
xydaxyda:
1. Actually, I would prefer if the Pre-On Alert Lost Items were FOUND and put back in the game exactly where they were originally(some would, of course, need to be converted to Regular Unlocks) as an incentive for people who don't have them to get out there and run some missions. There are, of course, PLENTY of things which could be used for what you're suggesting. While it is nice for a company to make profit and sell things there also has to be a certain amount of encentive and value to the actual game itself and, IMO, putting alot of that stuff back into the game does that.
2. That suggestion of yours would not fix broken costumes/tailor issues either. So, no, I would not feel "silly."
Is that a joke? I mean, the gold cap increase and unf-ing the tailor for new people are things that players wanted. Auras are things players wanted. Mechanon is what players wanted. A bunch of the recent costumes were what players wanted from the contest. Do I need to go on?
What principle is there for $10 costume bits? Cryptic provides you with something you want and you give Cryptic money for it. That's it. If you're spending money thinking your going to get a return on your "investment", you're going to be disappointed no matter what game you spend money on. That's not how business works. If you want to invest, buy stock. If you want to exchange money for products, buy costumes.
If anyone is going to be called a fanboy, it would be the people spending money on Cryptic products expecting more than what they purchased.
Cryptic provides you with something you want and you give Cryptic money for it. That's it. If you're spending money thinking your going to get a return on your "investment", you're going to be disappointed no matter what game you spend money on. That's not how business works. If you want to invest, buy stock. If you want to exchange money for products, buy costumes.
If anyone is going to be called a fanboy, it would be the people spending money on Cryptic products expecting more than what they purchased.
While this might be true, when I spend my money on a different game such as the secret world, I know my money is going in to development for that game. So it is not unexpected to expect some kind of return. People spend money on things they want, and berating people who have a difference of opinion does not make them right and you wrong, likewise it does not make you right and them wrong.
When you said "people complaining about $10 per costume". If they feel $10 is too much who are you to say they are wrong? Especially when there has been little added to this game to warrant this type of raise.
I will admit games raise prices, however, those games are successful and they add more content, items, and such. All this game adds is lockboxes and temp missions. Tell me does these require a needless cost raise. I know the answer. I am not trying to be arugementive nor am i flaming you.
All of this really comes down to personal taste. If you want to buy it, buy it. If you do not want it, don't buy it. Wait for your stipend if you want. I will most likely buy what I want, whether I used my stipend for part of it, or not. I have thrown down $10 for zen when I had no stipend because I thought the set was worth it.
If they keep pushing out buggy sets, we answer by not buying them. It is really just that simple.
Sure pretty much everyone would love to have a costume pass to get stuff fixed. There is a lot of stuff we would love to have, and we probably will get them a year or so down the road. We get what we ask for eventually (for several subjects already mentioned by others) but it just takes a while.
gold cap: Asked since on alert started. increase and unf-ing the tailor: Asked since on alert started. Auras: What we got is not what people asked for, though personally "I" love the fact that we can have several Auras activated at once. Vehicles: What we got is not what people asked for. Mechanon: Hell I campaigned for Mechanon for 4 years. Recent player voted Costumes: Can't complain, they came out pretty quick. Good job on those.
Meanwhile things that would really help the game grow... Zones: Not gonna happen. Foundry: Not gonna happen Power Sets: Not gonna happen Mission Chains: The small 3-4 set missions with Alert ending is what we are to expect. (Steel Crusade was still awesome though. If we got Quality like that more frequently, I would be happier about it.)
Just remember, at least we have people working on the game. It is better than none.
All of this really comes down to personal taste. If you want to buy it, buy it. If you do not want it, don't buy it. Wait for your stipend if you want. I will most likely buy what I want, whether I used my stipend for part of it, or not. I have thrown down $10 for zen when I had no stipend because I thought the set was worth it.
If they keep pushing out buggy sets, we answer by not buying them. It is really just that simple.
Yup. Pretty much this.
Buy if you like it. If you don't like it or you think it's not worth it? Don't buy it.
All this outcry is not needed.
It's a seller right to set the price.
It's a customer right to decide whether to buy or not.
Am I upset at this change? Yeah. True I'm LTS, I can wait for my monthly zen to buy the costumes I want, but I still enjoyed 'supporting' the game I love when I could. However with this change I won't be supporting it at all until I see something worthwhile or other added. While this isn't a Game Breaking things for me since I only play to make things with the parts I already have. It's a sign that things are going to go downhill from here unless we can get some new content out. I'd love to see more customization options (Not just costumes even though they're sometimes pretty), I'd love to see more bosses, areas, power sets, etc. But all in all, after all these years, I've come to accept this as the game I only play when I'm super bored and feel like making something in the creator. I've watched PWE make good decisions, I've seen them make bad ones, considering some of the sets, in my personal opinion, I'd list this as bad, but not simply because 'Oh that's priced too high', it's more of, 'That's more than I'd pay for in a game that simply gets more boring when you hit lvl 40.' I'd say, if they're going to be adding more content that's not JUST lockboxes and costumes, with the occasional bug fix. Then I'm all for the price changes, these are reasonable prices in any good game, even if I'm not happy about the prices going up. I apologize for my rant, I simply wanted to post something because I'm getting tired of not having a voice at all.
Now to simply sit back and wait, and observe to see if this game either dies off. Or blossoms once more, I pray it be the 2nd option, because even if I don't like the company that much, I do love this game as one of the few MMO's I play that feels like you truly have your own character.
Is that a joke? I mean, the gold cap increase and unf-ing the tailor for new people are things that players wanted. Auras are things players wanted. Mechanon is what players wanted. A bunch of the recent costumes were what players wanted from the contest. Do I need to go on?
Hang on, let me show you why this is an inaccurate statement.
It took Trailturtle and Radioscience logging in, and within no time at all, they 'found a problem with the prices'. Meanwhile, those things you mentioned? Most of them took YEARS.
Years of pointing out problems like those above. Years of ignoring the bugs with several costumes. Years of ignoring simple request like variety of materials and color kits for vehicles.
And yet, ONE DAY is all it took for them to see the 'problem' with the costume prices.
What principle is there for $10 costume bits? Cryptic provides you with something you want and you give Cryptic money for it. That's it. If you're spending money thinking your going to get a return on your "investment", you're going to be disappointed no matter what game you spend money on. That's not how business works. If you want to invest, buy stock. If you want to exchange money for products, buy costumes.
No, if I spend money on products, I want them to be reliable. And the sad thing is, most of these products we're buying aren't properly tested. Why? Because we can't test out the costumes on PTS with anything but the bare-bones basic tailor and the new costume set. Sort of limits the 'testing' by well over 50%, wouldn't you say?
The problem isn't that Cryptic has a few costume sets that are superior to others. The problem is that Cryptic saw a problem with some garbage-tier costume sets they released in the past, and then decided the ones that weren't complete wastes of money were worth TWICE as much.
It's like owning a brewery. You make a batch of skunk beer that everyone hates, so instead of significantly dropping the price on that, you double the prices on the ones people did like. It's not showing that you're improving anything, it just shows you're lowering the bar for what you consider quality.
It took Trailturtle and Radioscience logging in, and within no time at all, they 'found a problem with the prices'. Meanwhile, those things you mentioned? Most of them took YEARS.
Years of pointing out problems like those above. Years of ignoring the bugs with several costumes. Years of ignoring simple request like variety of materials and color kits for vehicles.
And yet, ONE DAY is all it took for them to see the 'problem' with the costume prices.
That's a joke right there, my friend.
And CO's revenue remained constant during that time period, right?
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
More likely it was something that could be tackled without pulling resources (and lets face it limited ones) from else where.
^This. There aren't many things that I can do to create/improve things that are in-game; it's best to think of me as Captain Support. If Radio and I have a conversation on our chat system about "Huh, I wonder if this is a problem, it might be worth looking at", we can then split and go to work: He goes back to working on something (like bug fixes or new costumes), and I can go do research. Then I can come back with my thoughts, we can talk it through a little more, and I can ping-pong back out into the wilds of data and anecdotes. From an actual dev standpoint, one of the most time-intensive parts of this change was making the price changes and verifying the new prices.
Fingers crossed they use this as an excuse to add cheap costume packs of miscellaneous items that were previously removed from the game. If we had an influx of cheap costume stuff that currently could not be justified being sold at full price, how many of you whiners would end up feeling kind of silly about this whole thing?
Probably not this. We still intend for legacy items to get back into the game at some point, but we will probably be incorporating them into different systems than they were in before, and I don't think we'll be selling them directly.
If you're saying they didn't have the money, I'll proudly divert your focus toward the mountain of vehicles we got since then.
I'd even give them credit if they acknowledged the bugs. But, nope. That ain't happened.
I'm saying nothing about CO's profit or loss, except to assume that if the game was losing money, we'd be getting a sunset notice, not a price adjustment.
You, on the other hand, implied that TT and RS went months without looking at any financial statements, suddenly read a report, then panicked and concocted a new pricing scheme for costumes over a lunch hour, which is utter nonsense.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
We still intend for legacy items to get back into the game at some point, but we will probably be incorporating them into different systems than they were in before, and I don't think we'll be selling them directly.
Please, by all means, tell me more. More specifically, why "different systems" as opposed to "the original systems that lost them in the 1st place"? I mean, it would get people who do not have these things to go out and run missions...which would mean, likely, more alts....the occasional need for more slots...more bodies seen ingame for newer players...and...money? You cannot sell magazines at a newsstand without a newsstand to display them on which is strong enough to support the weight and draw in the eye. :biggrin:
Clarification: I've had a few people hit me up on this line of thinking saying,"You just want to get your hands on X," so, to be perfectly clear when it comes to the Pre-On Alert Unlocks, I have them all. So this isn't about me beyond it being something I believe would be better for the game as a whole.
Sterga: Fun lil question. If I sold you a cup of coffee for a dollar but filled the cup halfway with coffee and the other half with spit would you complain about the spit or accept the whole package because it's only a dollar?
Sterga: Fun lil question. If I sold you a cup of coffee for a dollar but filled the cup halfway with coffee and the other half with spit would you complain about the spit or accept the whole package because it's only a dollar?
That is a trick question....everyone knows that there was always spit in that first half.
Probably not this. We still intend for legacy items to get back into the game at some point, but we will probably be incorporating them into different systems than they were in before, and I don't think we'll be selling them directly.
This may be a unpopular but I wouldn't mind a new aura slot for weapons.
Seeing how the gear for power replacements and that it changes your weapons as well.
Sterga: Fun lil question. If I sold you a cup of coffee for a dollar but filled the cup halfway with coffee and the other half with spit would you complain about the spit or accept the whole package because it's only a dollar?
It isn't spit... it's a costume piece that clips sometimes or a costume piece that has a broken color channel or a costume piece that is a little more stretchy than it should be.. as far as bugs go they are pretty minor ones.
Water I believe is the substance you're thinking of. It is watery coffee, which I actually hate...but I am not going to throw up over it.
CRYPTIC is going to try to sell costume sets for the price of a full game... Or more than the subscription prices of CO should be... Yup. "They done lost they minds!"
It isn't spit... it's a costume piece that clips sometimes or a costume piece that has a broken color channel or a costume piece that is a little more stretchy than it should be.. as far as bugs go they are pretty minor ones.
Water I believe is the substance you're thinking of. It is watery coffee, which I actually hate...but I am not going to throw up over it.
It's a product being put out there for testing, feedback, repair, and release with the intention of being purchased. As far as bugs go in this context...they're not that minor. As far as bugs when compared to the whole of the game..then they're kinda minor. It's all about context. If they were trying to sell me the Nemesis System, for example, then I would have a completely different list of concerns/bugs.
If I had been thinking of water I would have typed water.
$227.50 for their top 28 costume sets isn't even vaguely cheap. I don't think Cryptic is understanding the concept of MICROtransactions.
If this were some kind of bundle or you had to buy them all at once, or at all, then you might have a point. Since this is not the case then I am sorry, you do not.
Probably not this. We still intend for legacy items to get back into the game at some point, but we will probably be incorporating them into different systems than they were in before, and I don't think we'll be selling them directly.
Better not be selling them. And most of us prefer them going back into the game where they were. In PvE as a random drop. Not what you guys did with Mechanon in a vendor. God please no. Put them in a place where you can farm it but not have to farm hundreds of times. Places where they made sense.
Make PvE interesting to do. If it wasn't for unique rewards being found throughout the entirety of the game, I wouldn't have cared about the content in it after it was done. Its incentive and reward that keeps players coming back to content. Not arbitrary numbers of points to purchase them directly.
"After beating Arcana I got a rare device that let me use that Avatar ability of her's."
"After stopping the Destroids downtown I managed to get that rare Portable Robot Factory! Now I can summon my own reprogrammed Destroids!"
"I found a cool Gatling Pistol from those ghosts in the desert. Now with it equipped my pistol powers effect changed! This is cool. Maybe I should buy that tech/western costume to go with it."
After going on for all this time it is remarkably on topic I would say, but lets not start an argument about that... we have enough on our plate as it is.
Ultimately time will tell if this was the worst idea ever or simply another change to the the status quo.
I choose to remain positive... this sort of thing isn't worth getting bent out of shape over in my opinion... if I ever felt like being here was no longer worth my time I would find something else to do.
I respect the passion some of you seem to have about this issue(despite the fact I called you all a bunch of whiners a little while back..)... but I still feel a lot of it is wasted complaining about $5.25 in a video game that does not actually force you to spend a single cent.
If this were some kind of bundle or you had to buy them all at once, or at all, then you might have a point. Since this is not the case then I am sorry, you do not.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that it really is irrelevant. You're not looking at the opportunity cost of that $10.00.
Basically, in my mind...
If someone has MONEY, they aren't going to be F2P, they are just going to Lifetime and be done.
If someone has money, they are likely to be gold and spend $15 a month for a subscription. $10 for the subscription and $5 for the 500 Zen. They might just go F2P and spend like crazy out of the Zen market place. I don't see this as likely, but whatevs.
If someone doesn't have money, they are going to go F2P. The fact is, this game is F2P. That's the business model. Fine. That's the bed they made years ago, and they need to sleep in it. If you're going to go F2P and appeal to broke people, then you need to price things for broke people.
Examples of REAL LIFE MICRO transactions:
Dollar Menu Items at fast food restaurants.
MP3 Downloads online.
Apps at App stores.
All of those items are considerably less than $10.00 for a costume, of which, unless you are totally OCD about costumes, you're going to use one or two pieces.
So, what can $10.00 buy you that's disposable and entertainment?
Well, it can buy you all the good songs of like three albums.
It can buy you 2/3rd of the monthly premium of a GOOD MMORPG.
It can buy you buttloads of stuff in ACTUAL microtransaction stores, like apps stores.
It can buy you a WHOLE GAME to play.
It can buy you a WHOLE EXPANSION to better games.
So, unless the Zen marketplace is doing AMAZINGLY well among F2P customers. Like, insanely... in which case, sure, raise the prices. Makes sense... but if it's NOT doing insanely well among F2P customers, this is a sure way to make sure they don't spend their money in CO.
Personally? There's no way I'm going to spend that much on CO. Nope, sorry. I'd much rather have a whole new game or buy an expansion than pay $10.00 for a costume set. I have a Lifetime, so I'm not worried. It honestly doesn't affect me either way. I've already bought all the sets I wanted months ago. No big to me.
My opinion as an MBA, though? Unless they are just making money hand over fist from the Zen market place on CO, price hikes are exactly the opposite thing they need to do to make more money. Higher prices means less demand. That's an economic reality.
What it tells me is they are trying to get more money out of their Gold subscribers, and they don't think the loss of revenue from the F2P customers on the Zen market place will be less than the gain from the "increase" in the revenue from the Gold customers on the Zen market place. That's just a guess, though, cause, again, I don't know what their F2P financials are. If they are INSANELY good, then all bets are off, and, yes, they should raise prices.
I can't see how their F2P numbers can possibly be as good as this, though...
Since they're trying to get more money out of players, will we be able to start getting new power sets again?
Like a sweet staff power set?...
Totally unlikely. This was the result of a cheap consulting group coming in and advising them to raise their prices on their premium sets and lower their prices on their crummiest costume sets. A consulting group probably from PWE... but that makes no sense, because PWE microtransaction prices are generally lower...
Comparing apples to apples, prices of costume sets on DCU are $4.00. Still too high for what it gives you, but it just goes to show that CO thinks they can sell their costume sets for twice the market price... I... have no idea what universe they are living in, but it isn't Earth prime. Bizarro overpriced Earth, maybe.
EDIT - price of costume sets on DCU is $4.00, not $5.00... so way cheaper than CO. That's an apples to apples comparison. You wonder why CRYPTIC's F2P launch went so bad? *points* That's why.
Okay, let's pop open the app store on my ol' iPhone and check it out...
Minecraft - Pocket Edition: $6.99
Grand Theft Auto III: $4.99
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City: $4.99
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas: $6.99
NBA 2K15: $7.99
Terraria: $4.99
Goat Simulator: $4.99
Multiplayer addon for Minecraft PE: $2.99
Call of Duty: Zombies: $4.99
Emoji Keypad: $3.99
Reference Guide for Essential Oils: $6.99
Boating USA (a navigation program): $9.99
And unlike the costume sets, I can't even mix and match these - no Goat Simulator goats running around a Minecraft world shooting at zombies and gathering plants for essential oils (although that does sound like a great game!). Each one is a world unto itself.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
but only a handful of sets are asking for that much... true most are over $5 but we're talking $1.50 to $2.50 ...assuming everything from now on will be $10 is quite a leap, and I for one am actually looking forward to getting some of the $3.75 sets I have been tempted to buy in the past.
anyway our costume creator is miles ahead of DCU... worth more than $1.50 I'd say!
Okay, let's pop open the app store on my ol' iPhone and check it out...
Yes, but they are a whole game unto themselves, not just a costume set that you will use on a handful of characters for a couple months until something better comes along. If paying 250% the price that DCU online costume sets cost is worth it to you, then... fine.
I don't think DCU is hurting as much as CO is. DCU actually HAS a player base. Additional character slots on CO $7.00 per (minimum of 2 per). Additional character slots on DCU $5.00 per (minimum of 1 per).
If you think a costume set is worth and ENTIRE GAME then... okay. You like costumes. Me, not so much. I don't really do the whole costume contest thing, either... so having the latest and greatest isn't worth it to me, except rarely.
But at $4.75 a pop, the price of costumes was already $0.75 more expensive on CO than DCU. So CO is already running at a premium price over DCU, but DCU has a lot more players.
anyway our costume creator is miles ahead of DCU... worth more than $1.50 I'd say!
I won't disagree with this. CO does have better costume designing... But it's still an apples to apples comparison. At $4.75 a pop, that was still at an almost 25% premium over DCU costume sets.
Like I said, either the costume purchases from F2P was OUT OF CONTROL hot... or CRYPTIC has totally lost their minds.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that it really is irrelevant. You're not looking at the opportunity cost of that $10.00.
Basically, in my mind...
If someone has MONEY, they aren't going to be F2P, they are just going to Lifetime and be done.
If someone has money, they are likely to be gold and spend $15 a month for a subscription. $10 for the subscription and $5 for the 500 Zen. They might just go F2P and spend like crazy out of the Zen market place. I don't see this as likely, but whatevs.
If someone doesn't have money, they are going to go F2P. The fact is, this game is F2P. That's the business model. Fine. That's the bed they made years ago, and they need to sleep in it. If you're going to go F2P and appeal to broke people, then you need to price things for broke people.
Examples of REAL LIFE MICRO transactions:
Dollar Menu Items at fast food restaurants.
MP3 Downloads online.
Apps at App stores.
All of those items are considerably less than $10.00 for a costume, of which, unless you are totally OCD about costumes, you're going to use one or two pieces.
So, what can $10.00 buy you that's disposable and entertainment?
Well, it can buy you all the good songs of like three albums.
It can buy you 2/3rd of the monthly premium of a GOOD MMORPG.
It can buy you buttloads of stuff in ACTUAL microtransaction stores, like apps stores.
It can buy you a WHOLE GAME to play.
It can buy you a WHOLE EXPANSION to better games.
So, unless the Zen marketplace is doing AMAZINGLY well among F2P customers. Like, insanely... in which case, sure, raise the prices. Makes sense... but if it's NOT doing insanely well among F2P customers, this is a sure way to make sure they don't spend their money in CO.
Personally? There's no way I'm going to spend that much on CO. Nope, sorry. I'd much rather have a whole new game or buy an expansion than pay $10.00 for a costume set. I have a Lifetime, so I'm not worried. It honestly doesn't affect me either way. I've already bought all the sets I wanted months ago. No big to me.
My opinion as an MBA, though? Unless they are just making money hand over fist from the Zen market place on CO, price hikes are exactly the opposite thing they need to do to make more money. Higher prices means less demand. That's an economic reality.
What it tells me is they are trying to get more money out of their Gold subscribers, and they don't think the loss of revenue from the F2P customers on the Zen market place will be less than the gain from the "increase" in the revenue from the Gold customers on the Zen market place. That's just a guess, though, cause, again, I don't know what their F2P financials are. If they are INSANELY good, then all bets are off, and, yes, they should raise prices.
I can't see how their F2P numbers can possibly be as good as this, though...
Some good insights there. A couple of points though:
1) Not everyone who prefers a FtP business model is broke. There are people who choose it because they prefer to own their gaming experience ( but cannot justify a $300 price tag for a game) rather than renting.
2) Raising prices does not necessarily impact demand all that significantly if an item is priced below what the market will bear. Even if it does lower demand a company can still come out ahead in terms of revenue with a price increase.
Also keep in mind that there will be reduced demand over time (almost) no matter what Cryptic does. Once a player purchases a costume set his demand for that set will drop to zero. New sets are not released at a rate to overcome the likely rate of decline of demand. Really, lowering prices would speed up the rate at which demand drops as players would be more inclined/able to purchase sets more quickly. The point at which the portion of the player base willing to buy given sets will have done so would be reached sooner. Demand drops to its lowest practical point.
Ultimately though, lowering prices to increase demand in order to drive revenue works best when dealing in volume. CO isn't really a high volume sales environment IMO.
I don't like beer, why would I want to own a brewery?
Chances are, if I made beer (for some idiotic reason), and it was terrible, no one would buy it. That and I'd have to recall it anyway if a skunk fell in it because someone would probably get sick or possibly die from having contaminated beer.
I wouldn't say any of the costumes are trash tier. Disappointing, yes. Pure trash, no. Plus, it's an OPTIONAL one time purchase of $10. That's a damn fine deal. There aren't a whole lot of things that are only $10 once and never again. Bonus: no one's going to die from a messed up color channel.
Sterga: Fun lil question. If I sold you a cup of coffee for a dollar but filled the cup halfway with coffee and the other half with spit would you complain about the spit or accept the whole package because it's only a dollar?
Do I know that the cup is 50% spit? I'm assuming the answer is 'yes' if you're making the comparison to cash shop sets since I can view the sets before buying. In that case, I wouldn't even buy the coffee in the first place.
If I find out later, it depends. How much later are we talking? Right away? Because I can't see that happening with the general hotness requirement of coffee. I'm not fond of burning myself. Chances are, I'd be long gone from where I bought the coffee. I'd probably say 'ew', toss the coffee, and not be bothered to go back to your coffee shop. I can't see myself flipping tables over it or being bothered to go back just to throw a fit. Chances are with how hot coffee is required to be, the germs are all dead anyway.
If you did mean I find out right away and was still at your coffee shop, I'd probably say you were a jerk for selling me spit coffee, trash it, and leave. That's 'say' not 'yell' or 'complain'.
I might be upset that someone who's supposed to be my friend spits in my coffee. That's a crappy thing to do.
That is a terrible comparison which doesn't accurately reflect this situation. I doubt Cryptic makes costume errors on purpose. Or has meeting where everyone twirls their mustache, plotting how to f-over their playerbase.
The stuff on the dollar menu is made by pimply faced high school kids.
I can play Champions Online for $0. All the way up to level 40. I can keep playing CO for as long as the servers are up for $0.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that it really is irrelevant. You're not looking at the opportunity cost of that $10.00.
Basically, in my mind...
If someone has MONEY, they aren't going to be F2P, they are just going to Lifetime and be done.
If someone has money, they are likely to be gold and spend $15 a month for a subscription. $10 for the subscription and $5 for the 500 Zen. They might just go F2P and spend like crazy out of the Zen market place. I don't see this as likely, but whatevs.
If someone doesn't have money, they are going to go F2P. The fact is, this game is F2P. That's the business model. Fine. That's the bed they made years ago, and they need to sleep in it. If you're going to go F2P and appeal to broke people, then you need to price things for broke people.
No business appeals to "broke" people. Businesses look for markets that can afford their products or services. The people who have no interest in said products/services or simply can't afford them aren't part of whatever market it is that the business is actually appealing to. Businesses aren't community service. The products and services are priced according to several factors, like production and material costs. Price hikes can be attributed to increases in production costs, maintenance costs, taxes, etc. etc. Then there's the markup too.
A truly broke person who's struggling to make ends meet is most likely going to consider a video gaming hobby being way, way down in their list of financial priorities. Any video game company isn't going to cater to them because company = business = investment and profit returns. Who will the company show favor towards? Someone who won't/can't pay for it, or someone who can?
Besides, a CO player, especially one who can afford a LTS, who wants to remain F2P isn't necessarily broke. He or she may have already purchased other games but are fine with the F2P limitations of the game that they see no reason buying premium stuff for.
IExamples of REAL LIFE MICRO transactions:
Dollar Menu Items at fast food restaurants.
MP3 Downloads online.
Apps at App stores.
All of those items are considerably less than $10.00 for a costume, of which, unless you are totally OCD about costumes, you're going to use one or two pieces.
So, what can $10.00 buy you that's disposable and entertainment?
Well, it can buy you all the good songs of like three albums.
It can buy you 2/3rd of the monthly premium of a GOOD MMORPG.
It can buy you buttloads of stuff in ACTUAL microtransaction stores, like apps stores.
It can buy you a WHOLE GAME to play.
It can buy you a WHOLE EXPANSION to better games.
Value is subjective.
If I absolutely don't care about:
1) Buying songs digitally
2) Any sort of microtransaction of any mobile app
3) $10 games or DLCs that I have no interest for
...then the comparison is irrelevant.
Costumes at the least are global unlocks and are useable by an unlimited number of characters. That kind of enrichment to my overall entertainment value with the game is much better than 2 hours at a movie theater for e.g. if I were to use a different entertainment medium for comparison.
EDIT: And if you want another comparison, an average full album on iTunes costs 10 - 12 bucks. I get roughly an hour's worth of audio entertainment for an indefinite amount of repeat plays. Costumes provide entertainment enrichment value for an indefinite amount of time with accordance to how long I play the game, and I've been at it since launch. Both are comparatively very good value for what I'm paying for.
I'd probably say 'ew', toss the coffee, and not be bothered to go back to your coffee shop.
This would be what I would hope to avoid. Even if you didn't flip tables you'd likely tell friends who would tell friends and so on...which would be detrimental to the shop.
That is a terrible comparison which doesn't accurately reflect this situation. I doubt Cryptic makes costume errors on purpose. Or has meeting where everyone twirls their mustache, plotting how to f-over their playerbase.
I am seeing that now based on your reply. While it was somewhat amusing to play around with it was not my intention to paint such a "railroad tracks villian" picture with my question. I could likely attempt to make a more accurate example towards this issue but then it could likely just as easily be shifted from being evil to being incompetent...which I also do not believe. I pretty much believe the issue here is proper amounts of time to see the things that need to be done actually get done. For me it truly isn't about the costs themselves so much as the state of the goods when they make it to the shelf. It's not about just not buying it all the time so much as I do want it...but done right. Throwing 10 dollar bills at the screen isn't a biggie so long as there is what I consider proper value coming back. I believe multiple people in this thread have made valid cases to this end....and that some really haven't too to be fair.
Honestly, it's the witching hour on this for the most part. The ship has all but sailed. All we can really truly do now is watch and wait to see what, if anything, happens. A State of The Game sure would help to pass the time time though. :cool:
Honestly, it's the witching hour on this for the most part. The ship has all but sailed. All we can really truly do now is watch and wait to see what, if anything, happens. A State of The Game sure would help to pass the time time though. :cool:
I don't think you meant to say Cryptic is evil, but that's not the scenario you gave me. I would most likely not be bothered to bad mouth your coffee shop. Too much effort.
If $10 is nothing, then couldn't costumes be pretty crappy and still be OK to buy?
Considering all of the stupid thing people buy and how little $10 actually is, even by people against this price increase, I find it odd how grumpy people are over it. I see this as an amazing deal considering how $10 doesn't buy you much of anything today. This talk about quality, well, most of the sets have a lot of work on them and are pretty good. It seems like people have very high expectations for a $10 set.
1. Not Grumpy.
2. Crappy =/= Ok.
3. 10 bucks is nothing for ME. I do not pretend to speak for everyone and their financial situations though.
4. Those High Standards come from Holoforce and this thread mentioning "Quality" and "Polish" as their chosen buzzwords.
5. Take 10 bucks to The Steam Store or GoG and lemme know how that works out for ya.
6. I just want to type the words "State of The Game" in every post I make in this thread from now on.
Is that a joke? I mean, the gold cap increase and unf-ing the tailor for new people are things that players wanted. Auras are things players wanted. Mechanon is what players wanted. A bunch of the recent costumes were what players wanted from the contest. Do I need to go on?
I'm sorry Sterga but I call BS on this one
It took them YEARS since the game went Free to Play to give the Resource Cap Increase for Silver Players
and YEARS to fix that stupid costume limitation for new players since ON-ALERT
Despite both ISSUES were being REQUESTED countless of times in the past YEARS
YEARS!
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
5. Take 10 bucks to The Steam Store or GoG and lemme know how that works out for ya.
At the time of this post via GOG: 5 copies of Unreal Gold (100 left), which can provide you and 4 friends with countless hours of gameplay in both single and multiplayer.
Probably shouldn't have mentioned GOG during one of their sales
Yeah, I think it's going on PTS later today -- there's a ticket in to update PTS -- and if it passes muster on PTS, it'll go live this week on Thursday with maintenance.
Comments
Calling me a liar are ya? Of course it's the f'ing principle. I'll spend $10 on a meal and not even blink.
Apart from a massive fanboi stick up the butt, what would even make you think that increased prices are going to ensure quality work given what we've seen thus far?
If they were saying a costume pass with bug-fixes, opened categories, new textures etc... was the reason for the increases, then fine.
But as is... thinking that this is anything other than TT and Radio (and why do they have "spare cycles" anyway??) going to the PWE Executives and saying, "look we've found a way to make you more money FROM EXISTING ASSETS" is ludicrous.
So many things to do to improve this game and revamping costume prices is the most critical? Rrright....
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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What did you do before stipend was introduced did you not buy costume sets or did you spend real money?
Have you considered the very fact that your not spending real world cash in the cash store and instead only spending stipend is part of the reason for the change?
Hell if your first generation lifer and in the above description your effectively a drain on the cash flow your playing for free and getting the cool stuff for free as well.
and on a closing note you could just make up the difference between stipend and costume set by converting Q to Zen. You know just a though actually play the game you want the pretty clothes for?
More likely it was something that could be tackled without pulling resources (and lets face it limited ones) from else where.
I hope there going to do this any ways and if this is the start of them showing some much needed interest in the quality and make up of the Z store costume sets (lock box ones seem to be getting the bells and whistles this weather) then I hope if not expect the testing/quality of the finished sets to be up to scratch there should be no more plain to see spotted in the fist days of testing bugs with costumes any more especially something priced as premium.
I can equally respond:
"Where was the pricing concern when the devs were cranking out worthless costumes, and why is it a concern now when we've been barking about these issues for YEARS in some cases?"
You can't sit there with a straight face and say no one has raised hell about the countless, persistent, and flat-out ignored costume bugs.
Well I wasn't trying to use that as leverage for anything, I'm just stating a fact. Between CO and DCUO, there aren't really any great Super Hero MMO's on the Market (of this style, if you count Marvel Heroes). By the end of that year, the number will double (if you don't count MH). If the two games out are in a bad shape when two shiny new next gen versions of the better Super MMO comes out, they're going to be in even more trouble.
That's not an opinion of mine, but just a statement about turning away players with more competition around the corner. To be honest, I'm not expecting much from Valiance Online hitting steam, because it will be a Alpha build at the best. Personally, I'm looking forward to City of Titans, way more. The issue remains though, that it's something new and possibly different, meaning numbers here will drop, especially with the growing trend of extended betas happening with online games. People will log in and play, even if it's bad, just to see where it's going or how it grows.
I'm not trying to make a commercial or use it as a threat or what have you, I'm just saying that caution might be better for business until they can assess the competition coming. With a lot of the other quality issues going on, a price raise doesn't seem like the right move without something more palpable. It they're going to raise the cost, they might want to toss in something to sweeten the deal a little more. Maybe include themed weapon packs with the 1000z costume packs. Maybe add a variant costume of the same theme, to justify the price hike. Look at the Psi dragon and hologram armor. They had great value as a single costume, but if they were both sold as a single $10 pack, that would be an instant buy. I dropped real money for both, but raising price for an individual set just seems in poor taste without that something extra. I wouldn't mind paying the $10 if the value were there, and I think others probably feel the same way. Not everyone, nor am I trying to speak for anyone other than myself, but over all, there seem to be more people saying nay, than yay. Just look at how bad STO's forums are. People don't really feel like Cryptic is listening.
Plus, 9 doesn't seem so much as a spiritual successor as much as it is a man returning to his old well after nintendo abandoned it. It looks nice from the stuff they're showing, but unless they're saving the good stuff for last, it doesn't really look like it's going to be bringing anything new to the table.
I personally loved the quality of the new costume sets, but even though the fan designed sets were awesome, it seems like the Cryptic ones are still buggy and or clipping. Even the weapon skins seem to be having issues in the tailor. While some of the stuff is of higher quality, other stuff just doesn't seem to be getting that same attention. Why should we pay more for something as it should be, rather than things that were just kind of tossed out there. There's other ways they could add value to the price increase, but instead of making it a worthwhile change, they're just upping the price because they know the "whales" will just go ahead and buy it anyway.
Define "massive".
Forum-goers account for a fraction of the game's actual overall population. An instance of seeing complaints about it in zone chat doesn't come across as massive considering not everyone routinely chats in zone, also not to mention people have been crying doom and how the game's going to die for ages by now over in zone.
At the end of the day, the money speaks volumes. If there's suddenly a very significant drop in costume sales due to the price hike over a period of time and that the prices get readjusted back to what they were used to, then we can safely assume that the hike was objectively a bad idea all along.
This is well spoken. Also, I'd like to add that even if you have a lot of unused ZEN built up from your gold stipends and just want to blow it on a costume set you don't even really want for the sake of spending excess ZEN, and you're against the hike, simply don't buy it.
1. It's possible but that's still alot of "If" in the equation.
2. When Inafune says Spiritual Successor....I'm gonna go with that.
xydaxyda:
1. Actually, I would prefer if the Pre-On Alert Lost Items were FOUND and put back in the game exactly where they were originally(some would, of course, need to be converted to Regular Unlocks) as an incentive for people who don't have them to get out there and run some missions. There are, of course, PLENTY of things which could be used for what you're suggesting. While it is nice for a company to make profit and sell things there also has to be a certain amount of encentive and value to the actual game itself and, IMO, putting alot of that stuff back into the game does that.
2. That suggestion of yours would not fix broken costumes/tailor issues either. So, no, I would not feel "silly."
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Is that a joke? I mean, the gold cap increase and unf-ing the tailor for new people are things that players wanted. Auras are things players wanted. Mechanon is what players wanted. A bunch of the recent costumes were what players wanted from the contest. Do I need to go on?
What principle is there for $10 costume bits? Cryptic provides you with something you want and you give Cryptic money for it. That's it. If you're spending money thinking your going to get a return on your "investment", you're going to be disappointed no matter what game you spend money on. That's not how business works. If you want to invest, buy stock. If you want to exchange money for products, buy costumes.
If anyone is going to be called a fanboy, it would be the people spending money on Cryptic products expecting more than what they purchased.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
While this might be true, when I spend my money on a different game such as the secret world, I know my money is going in to development for that game. So it is not unexpected to expect some kind of return. People spend money on things they want, and berating people who have a difference of opinion does not make them right and you wrong, likewise it does not make you right and them wrong.
When you said "people complaining about $10 per costume". If they feel $10 is too much who are you to say they are wrong? Especially when there has been little added to this game to warrant this type of raise.
I will admit games raise prices, however, those games are successful and they add more content, items, and such. All this game adds is lockboxes and temp missions. Tell me does these require a needless cost raise. I know the answer. I am not trying to be arugementive nor am i flaming you.
If they keep pushing out buggy sets, we answer by not buying them. It is really just that simple.
Sure pretty much everyone would love to have a costume pass to get stuff fixed. There is a lot of stuff we would love to have, and we probably will get them a year or so down the road. We get what we ask for eventually (for several subjects already mentioned by others) but it just takes a while.
gold cap: Asked since on alert started.
increase and unf-ing the tailor: Asked since on alert started.
Auras: What we got is not what people asked for, though personally "I" love the fact that we can have several Auras activated at once.
Vehicles: What we got is not what people asked for.
Mechanon: Hell I campaigned for Mechanon for 4 years.
Recent player voted Costumes: Can't complain, they came out pretty quick. Good job on those.
Meanwhile things that would really help the game grow...
Zones: Not gonna happen.
Foundry: Not gonna happen
Power Sets: Not gonna happen
Mission Chains: The small 3-4 set missions with Alert ending is what we are to expect. (Steel Crusade was still awesome though. If we got Quality like that more frequently, I would be happier about it.)
Just remember, at least we have people working on the game. It is better than none.
Yup. Pretty much this.
Buy if you like it. If you don't like it or you think it's not worth it? Don't buy it.
All this outcry is not needed.
It's a seller right to set the price.
It's a customer right to decide whether to buy or not.
Now to simply sit back and wait, and observe to see if this game either dies off. Or blossoms once more, I pray it be the 2nd option, because even if I don't like the company that much, I do love this game as one of the few MMO's I play that feels like you truly have your own character.
Hang on, let me show you why this is an inaccurate statement.
It took Trailturtle and Radioscience logging in, and within no time at all, they 'found a problem with the prices'. Meanwhile, those things you mentioned? Most of them took YEARS.
Years of pointing out problems like those above. Years of ignoring the bugs with several costumes. Years of ignoring simple request like variety of materials and color kits for vehicles.
And yet, ONE DAY is all it took for them to see the 'problem' with the costume prices.
That's a joke right there, my friend.
No, if I spend money on products, I want them to be reliable. And the sad thing is, most of these products we're buying aren't properly tested. Why? Because we can't test out the costumes on PTS with anything but the bare-bones basic tailor and the new costume set. Sort of limits the 'testing' by well over 50%, wouldn't you say?
The problem isn't that Cryptic has a few costume sets that are superior to others. The problem is that Cryptic saw a problem with some garbage-tier costume sets they released in the past, and then decided the ones that weren't complete wastes of money were worth TWICE as much.
It's like owning a brewery. You make a batch of skunk beer that everyone hates, so instead of significantly dropping the price on that, you double the prices on the ones people did like. It's not showing that you're improving anything, it just shows you're lowering the bar for what you consider quality.
And CO's revenue remained constant during that time period, right?
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
If you're saying they didn't have the money, I'll proudly divert your focus toward the mountain of vehicles we got since then.
I'd even give them credit if they acknowledged the bugs. But, nope. That ain't happened.
^This. There aren't many things that I can do to create/improve things that are in-game; it's best to think of me as Captain Support. If Radio and I have a conversation on our chat system about "Huh, I wonder if this is a problem, it might be worth looking at", we can then split and go to work: He goes back to working on something (like bug fixes or new costumes), and I can go do research. Then I can come back with my thoughts, we can talk it through a little more, and I can ping-pong back out into the wilds of data and anecdotes. From an actual dev standpoint, one of the most time-intensive parts of this change was making the price changes and verifying the new prices.
Probably not this. We still intend for legacy items to get back into the game at some point, but we will probably be incorporating them into different systems than they were in before, and I don't think we'll be selling them directly.
I'm saying nothing about CO's profit or loss, except to assume that if the game was losing money, we'd be getting a sunset notice, not a price adjustment.
You, on the other hand, implied that TT and RS went months without looking at any financial statements, suddenly read a report, then panicked and concocted a new pricing scheme for costumes over a lunch hour, which is utter nonsense.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Please, by all means, tell me more. More specifically, why "different systems" as opposed to "the original systems that lost them in the 1st place"? I mean, it would get people who do not have these things to go out and run missions...which would mean, likely, more alts....the occasional need for more slots...more bodies seen ingame for newer players...and...money? You cannot sell magazines at a newsstand without a newsstand to display them on which is strong enough to support the weight and draw in the eye. :biggrin:
Clarification: I've had a few people hit me up on this line of thinking saying,"You just want to get your hands on X," so, to be perfectly clear when it comes to the Pre-On Alert Unlocks, I have them all. So this isn't about me beyond it being something I believe would be better for the game as a whole.
Sterga: Fun lil question. If I sold you a cup of coffee for a dollar but filled the cup halfway with coffee and the other half with spit would you complain about the spit or accept the whole package because it's only a dollar?
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
That is a trick question....everyone knows that there was always spit in that first half.
This may be a unpopular but I wouldn't mind a new aura slot for weapons.
Seeing how the gear for power replacements and that it changes your weapons as well.
It isn't spit... it's a costume piece that clips sometimes or a costume piece that has a broken color channel or a costume piece that is a little more stretchy than it should be.. as far as bugs go they are pretty minor ones.
Water I believe is the substance you're thinking of. It is watery coffee, which I actually hate...but I am not going to throw up over it.
No one is concerned that the microtransactions in this game are no longer even vaguely micro?
$227.50 for their top 28 costume sets isn't even vaguely cheap. I don't think Cryptic is understanding the concept of MICROtransactions.
$10.00 is a lot for a costume in a game that the monthly subscription shouldn't be that much (compared to the industry leader).
Nope. No one.
MP3 Stores = Microtransaction.
App Stores = Microtransaction.
CO Costume Prices =/= Microtransaction.
CRYPTIC is going to try to sell costume sets for the price of a full game... Or more than the subscription prices of CO should be... Yup. "They done lost they minds!"
It's a product being put out there for testing, feedback, repair, and release with the intention of being purchased. As far as bugs go in this context...they're not that minor. As far as bugs when compared to the whole of the game..then they're kinda minor. It's all about context. If they were trying to sell me the Nemesis System, for example, then I would have a completely different list of concerns/bugs.
If I had been thinking of water I would have typed water.
If this were some kind of bundle or you had to buy them all at once, or at all, then you might have a point. Since this is not the case then I am sorry, you do not.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Better not be selling them. And most of us prefer them going back into the game where they were. In PvE as a random drop. Not what you guys did with Mechanon in a vendor. God please no. Put them in a place where you can farm it but not have to farm hundreds of times. Places where they made sense.
Make PvE interesting to do. If it wasn't for unique rewards being found throughout the entirety of the game, I wouldn't have cared about the content in it after it was done. Its incentive and reward that keeps players coming back to content. Not arbitrary numbers of points to purchase them directly.
"After beating Arcana I got a rare device that let me use that Avatar ability of her's."
"After stopping the Destroids downtown I managed to get that rare Portable Robot Factory! Now I can summon my own reprogrammed Destroids!"
"I found a cool Gatling Pistol from those ghosts in the desert. Now with it equipped my pistol powers effect changed! This is cool. Maybe I should buy that tech/western costume to go with it."
After going on for all this time it is remarkably on topic I would say, but lets not start an argument about that... we have enough on our plate as it is.
Ultimately time will tell if this was the worst idea ever or simply another change to the the status quo.
I choose to remain positive... this sort of thing isn't worth getting bent out of shape over in my opinion... if I ever felt like being here was no longer worth my time I would find something else to do.
I respect the passion some of you seem to have about this issue(despite the fact I called you all a bunch of whiners a little while back..)... but I still feel a lot of it is wasted complaining about $5.25 in a video game that does not actually force you to spend a single cent.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that it really is irrelevant. You're not looking at the opportunity cost of that $10.00.
Basically, in my mind...
If someone has MONEY, they aren't going to be F2P, they are just going to Lifetime and be done.
If someone has money, they are likely to be gold and spend $15 a month for a subscription. $10 for the subscription and $5 for the 500 Zen. They might just go F2P and spend like crazy out of the Zen market place. I don't see this as likely, but whatevs.
If someone doesn't have money, they are going to go F2P. The fact is, this game is F2P. That's the business model. Fine. That's the bed they made years ago, and they need to sleep in it. If you're going to go F2P and appeal to broke people, then you need to price things for broke people.
Examples of REAL LIFE MICRO transactions:
Dollar Menu Items at fast food restaurants.
MP3 Downloads online.
Apps at App stores.
All of those items are considerably less than $10.00 for a costume, of which, unless you are totally OCD about costumes, you're going to use one or two pieces.
So, what can $10.00 buy you that's disposable and entertainment?
Well, it can buy you all the good songs of like three albums.
It can buy you 2/3rd of the monthly premium of a GOOD MMORPG.
It can buy you buttloads of stuff in ACTUAL microtransaction stores, like apps stores.
It can buy you a WHOLE GAME to play.
It can buy you a WHOLE EXPANSION to better games.
So, unless the Zen marketplace is doing AMAZINGLY well among F2P customers. Like, insanely... in which case, sure, raise the prices. Makes sense... but if it's NOT doing insanely well among F2P customers, this is a sure way to make sure they don't spend their money in CO.
Personally? There's no way I'm going to spend that much on CO. Nope, sorry. I'd much rather have a whole new game or buy an expansion than pay $10.00 for a costume set. I have a Lifetime, so I'm not worried. It honestly doesn't affect me either way. I've already bought all the sets I wanted months ago. No big to me.
My opinion as an MBA, though? Unless they are just making money hand over fist from the Zen market place on CO, price hikes are exactly the opposite thing they need to do to make more money. Higher prices means less demand. That's an economic reality.
What it tells me is they are trying to get more money out of their Gold subscribers, and they don't think the loss of revenue from the F2P customers on the Zen market place will be less than the gain from the "increase" in the revenue from the Gold customers on the Zen market place. That's just a guess, though, cause, again, I don't know what their F2P financials are. If they are INSANELY good, then all bets are off, and, yes, they should raise prices.
I can't see how their F2P numbers can possibly be as good as this, though...
woah woah woah! Cool your jets there.
Like a sweet staff power set?...
Totally unlikely. This was the result of a cheap consulting group coming in and advising them to raise their prices on their premium sets and lower their prices on their crummiest costume sets. A consulting group probably from PWE... but that makes no sense, because PWE microtransaction prices are generally lower...
Comparing apples to apples, prices of costume sets on DCU are $4.00. Still too high for what it gives you, but it just goes to show that CO thinks they can sell their costume sets for twice the market price... I... have no idea what universe they are living in, but it isn't Earth prime. Bizarro overpriced Earth, maybe.
EDIT - price of costume sets on DCU is $4.00, not $5.00... so way cheaper than CO. That's an apples to apples comparison. You wonder why CRYPTIC's F2P launch went so bad? *points* That's why.
Minecraft - Pocket Edition: $6.99
Grand Theft Auto III: $4.99
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City: $4.99
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas: $6.99
NBA 2K15: $7.99
Terraria: $4.99
Goat Simulator: $4.99
Multiplayer addon for Minecraft PE: $2.99
Call of Duty: Zombies: $4.99
Emoji Keypad: $3.99
Reference Guide for Essential Oils: $6.99
Boating USA (a navigation program): $9.99
And unlike the costume sets, I can't even mix and match these - no Goat Simulator goats running around a Minecraft world shooting at zombies and gathering plants for essential oils (although that does sound like a great game!). Each one is a world unto itself.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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anyway our costume creator is miles ahead of DCU... worth more than $1.50 I'd say!
Yes, but they are a whole game unto themselves, not just a costume set that you will use on a handful of characters for a couple months until something better comes along. If paying 250% the price that DCU online costume sets cost is worth it to you, then... fine.
I don't think DCU is hurting as much as CO is. DCU actually HAS a player base. Additional character slots on CO $7.00 per (minimum of 2 per). Additional character slots on DCU $5.00 per (minimum of 1 per).
If you think a costume set is worth and ENTIRE GAME then... okay. You like costumes. Me, not so much. I don't really do the whole costume contest thing, either... so having the latest and greatest isn't worth it to me, except rarely.
But at $4.75 a pop, the price of costumes was already $0.75 more expensive on CO than DCU. So CO is already running at a premium price over DCU, but DCU has a lot more players.
I won't disagree with this. CO does have better costume designing... But it's still an apples to apples comparison. At $4.75 a pop, that was still at an almost 25% premium over DCU costume sets.
Like I said, either the costume purchases from F2P was OUT OF CONTROL hot... or CRYPTIC has totally lost their minds.
"Consulting Group" and "Hurting as much as CO".....uhm...sources please.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
*pulls out socket puppet*
Some good insights there. A couple of points though:
1) Not everyone who prefers a FtP business model is broke. There are people who choose it because they prefer to own their gaming experience ( but cannot justify a $300 price tag for a game) rather than renting.
2) Raising prices does not necessarily impact demand all that significantly if an item is priced below what the market will bear. Even if it does lower demand a company can still come out ahead in terms of revenue with a price increase.
Also keep in mind that there will be reduced demand over time (almost) no matter what Cryptic does. Once a player purchases a costume set his demand for that set will drop to zero. New sets are not released at a rate to overcome the likely rate of decline of demand. Really, lowering prices would speed up the rate at which demand drops as players would be more inclined/able to purchase sets more quickly. The point at which the portion of the player base willing to buy given sets will have done so would be reached sooner. Demand drops to its lowest practical point.
Ultimately though, lowering prices to increase demand in order to drive revenue works best when dealing in volume. CO isn't really a high volume sales environment IMO.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Chances are, if I made beer (for some idiotic reason), and it was terrible, no one would buy it. That and I'd have to recall it anyway if a skunk fell in it because someone would probably get sick or possibly die from having contaminated beer.
I wouldn't say any of the costumes are trash tier. Disappointing, yes. Pure trash, no. Plus, it's an OPTIONAL one time purchase of $10. That's a damn fine deal. There aren't a whole lot of things that are only $10 once and never again. Bonus: no one's going to die from a messed up color channel.
Do I know that the cup is 50% spit? I'm assuming the answer is 'yes' if you're making the comparison to cash shop sets since I can view the sets before buying. In that case, I wouldn't even buy the coffee in the first place.
If I find out later, it depends. How much later are we talking? Right away? Because I can't see that happening with the general hotness requirement of coffee. I'm not fond of burning myself. Chances are, I'd be long gone from where I bought the coffee. I'd probably say 'ew', toss the coffee, and not be bothered to go back to your coffee shop. I can't see myself flipping tables over it or being bothered to go back just to throw a fit. Chances are with how hot coffee is required to be, the germs are all dead anyway.
If you did mean I find out right away and was still at your coffee shop, I'd probably say you were a jerk for selling me spit coffee, trash it, and leave. That's 'say' not 'yell' or 'complain'.
I might be upset that someone who's supposed to be my friend spits in my coffee. That's a crappy thing to do.
That is a terrible comparison which doesn't accurately reflect this situation. I doubt Cryptic makes costume errors on purpose. Or has meeting where everyone twirls their mustache, plotting how to f-over their playerbase.
The stuff on the dollar menu is made by pimply faced high school kids.
I can play Champions Online for $0. All the way up to level 40. I can keep playing CO for as long as the servers are up for $0.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
No business appeals to "broke" people. Businesses look for markets that can afford their products or services. The people who have no interest in said products/services or simply can't afford them aren't part of whatever market it is that the business is actually appealing to. Businesses aren't community service. The products and services are priced according to several factors, like production and material costs. Price hikes can be attributed to increases in production costs, maintenance costs, taxes, etc. etc. Then there's the markup too.
A truly broke person who's struggling to make ends meet is most likely going to consider a video gaming hobby being way, way down in their list of financial priorities. Any video game company isn't going to cater to them because company = business = investment and profit returns. Who will the company show favor towards? Someone who won't/can't pay for it, or someone who can?
Besides, a CO player, especially one who can afford a LTS, who wants to remain F2P isn't necessarily broke. He or she may have already purchased other games but are fine with the F2P limitations of the game that they see no reason buying premium stuff for.
Value is subjective.
If I absolutely don't care about:
1) Buying songs digitally
2) Any sort of microtransaction of any mobile app
3) $10 games or DLCs that I have no interest for
...then the comparison is irrelevant.
Costumes at the least are global unlocks and are useable by an unlimited number of characters. That kind of enrichment to my overall entertainment value with the game is much better than 2 hours at a movie theater for e.g. if I were to use a different entertainment medium for comparison.
EDIT: And if you want another comparison, an average full album on iTunes costs 10 - 12 bucks. I get roughly an hour's worth of audio entertainment for an indefinite amount of repeat plays. Costumes provide entertainment enrichment value for an indefinite amount of time with accordance to how long I play the game, and I've been at it since launch. Both are comparatively very good value for what I'm paying for.
I am seeing that now based on your reply. While it was somewhat amusing to play around with it was not my intention to paint such a "railroad tracks villian" picture with my question. I could likely attempt to make a more accurate example towards this issue but then it could likely just as easily be shifted from being evil to being incompetent...which I also do not believe. I pretty much believe the issue here is proper amounts of time to see the things that need to be done actually get done. For me it truly isn't about the costs themselves so much as the state of the goods when they make it to the shelf. It's not about just not buying it all the time so much as I do want it...but done right. Throwing 10 dollar bills at the screen isn't a biggie so long as there is what I consider proper value coming back. I believe multiple people in this thread have made valid cases to this end....and that some really haven't too to be fair.
Honestly, it's the witching hour on this for the most part. The ship has all but sailed. All we can really truly do now is watch and wait to see what, if anything, happens. A State of The Game sure would help to pass the time time though. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
If that happens I will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX85xuey2KA
If $10 is nothing, then couldn't costumes be pretty crappy and still be OK to buy?
Considering all of the stupid thing people buy and how little $10 actually is, even by people against this price increase, I find it odd how grumpy people are over it. I see this as an amazing deal considering how $10 doesn't buy you much of anything today. This talk about quality, well, most of the sets have a lot of work on them and are pretty good. It seems like people have very high expectations for a $10 set.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
1. Not Grumpy.
2. Crappy =/= Ok.
3. 10 bucks is nothing for ME. I do not pretend to speak for everyone and their financial situations though.
4. Those High Standards come from Holoforce and this thread mentioning "Quality" and "Polish" as their chosen buzzwords.
5. Take 10 bucks to The Steam Store or GoG and lemme know how that works out for ya.
6. I just want to type the words "State of The Game" in every post I make in this thread from now on.
-End
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
There is no way in Hell that the Scientist Set worth 600 Zen
I CAN ACCEPT that Psionic Dragon and Holoforce will cost 1000 Zen because they are actually REALLY well made and offer new Material Options
But the Scientist set? No!
DEVS! Have you READ the Negative Feedbacks people gave for this low Quality Set?
I'm sorry Sterga but I call BS on this one
It took them YEARS since the game went Free to Play to give the Resource Cap Increase for Silver Players
and YEARS to fix that stupid costume limitation for new players since ON-ALERT
Despite both ISSUES were being REQUESTED countless of times in the past YEARS
YEARS!
Probably shouldn't have mentioned GOG during one of their sales