You don't need money to get ATs.. or FF tho. So :P
I don't spend money, but when I am actually playing the game I'm stupid active... which is what F2P players like me are here for, to provide a nice and active game for the Gold players. We just have to do it with generic colors on our powers, and no bird heads or glow tights. Also that... VIP.. kitchen... basement... thing.
Yes, you don't need money. You just have to make a fraction of minimum wage 'working' on CO to gain enough resources to get stuff 'for free.'
Frankly, it'd be way easier just to spend money, but hey, it's something for the unemployable to do or as an occasional perk. (at least for the cheap zen stuff -- I can't imagine anyone sane managing to raise the questionite for enough zen to get a FF slot, jeebus)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You don't need money to get ATs.. or FF tho. So :P
Oh, I don't even mean in the "well, you can grind Q and swap that for Zen" sense - I'm too lazy to grind much. I mean you can play all the way through the game, just picking up the occasional costume drop (or buying one in the AH if you have the Resources, or getting one during the Anniversary or Winter Events as a present), and never engage in "microtransactions" at all. They're never "forced" on you - they're purely cosmetic (or for epeen purposes, if you're the sort of person who has to run everything solo on Elite just to prove how hardcore you are).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Oh, I don't even mean in the "well, you can grind Q and swap that for Zen" sense - I'm too lazy to grind much. I mean you can play all the way through the game, just picking up the occasional costume drop (or buying one in the AH if you have the Resources, or getting one during the Anniversary or Winter Events as a present), and never engage in "microtransactions" at all. They're never "forced" on you - they're purely cosmetic (or for epeen purposes, if you're the sort of person who has to run everything solo on Elite just to prove how hardcore you are).
On this we agree completely. When people try to imply that Cryptic has ever forced a purchase on anyone, or that Cryptic is somehow a "money hungry corporate machine"...it seems silly.
Yes, you don't need money. You just have to make a fraction of minimum wage 'working' on CO to gain enough resources to get stuff 'for free.'
Frankly, it'd be way easier just to spend money, but hey, it's something for the unemployable to do or as an occasional perk. (at least for the cheap zen stuff -- I can't imagine anyone sane managing to raise the questionite for enough zen to get a FF slot, jeebus)
I work for my money, so I spend it carefully. Frivolous purchases in a game might be something fun and whimsical for kids who have access to mummy and daddy's credit card to do, but some of us actually see our money as a valuable resource and want to get all the value we can for every last dollar.
When people try to allude that you have to "work" in game to get stuff for free... the old grump in me comes running out to give a lecture on what real work is. To me, it's a pretty sweet deal that I can get all this stuff for free, and the only thing I have to do to actually get that stuff for free is to play a video game... and not just any video game, this video game.
If they let me pay for my gym membership by going to the gym, that'd be a pretty sweet deal too, don't you think?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If your free gym membership required doing 30,000 leg lifts a month, I'm not sure that would be a good thing.
And the implication that I'm a child using mommy's cc is obnoxious. And also wrong.
If anything, it's the kiddos who see long days of grinding as a good use of their time. As someone who actually has money, spending a tiny bit of it to get fun stuff is a much better use of my time than warping my play experience to maximize pressing the food bar.
I'd rather spend a half hour of pay getting something and then go play to maximize my fun than treat this like some bizarre job with sh*t wages.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Nor can I, and it would seem many other players here feel the same. Funny that most gamers I speak to relate to WoW as an in joke "Go back to playing WoW", "Its not like WoW is it?" WoW gives better games a bad name. imho
Well sorry if I don't jump in the absurd WoW hate band-wagon. I absolutely loved every single second I spent playing that game and many aspects of it I miss terribly (mainly organized groups and raids). It had a tremendous amount of lore, and since I had been playing since the first RTS game, it was a ton of fun seeing the world expand on those past games. Playing new alts never got boring to me either because you could at least choose a new faction or race and explore zones and quest lines that were not opened to you before. And I loved the cartoony art style, it had a very unique flair. I get tired of photo-realistic MMOs pretty quickly because they all end up looking the exact same in the end. Show me screenshot of any of those Korean games out there and I absolutely won't be able to tell you which game it is. WoW you recognize instantly.
I like CO as much as you guys; like I said, I've been gold since release. And yes, it has something WoW can only dream to have: superheroes and near limitless customization. That's why I'm playing after all. But those are it, the game has NOTHING else to offer. I have 25+ characters all of which went through the EXACT same quests and zones. I'm still running into bugs that has existed since launch and I know for g*****n sure they are still going to be there till the day the game finally dies out. The coding is so shodddy I can easily intentionally get quests to bug out. I haven't done coding work in 10 years, yet I probably could do a better job. How can you not feel completely abandoned by the developpers whom are so neglectful of their own game? Every penny that I spend on this game taste extremely bitter because I know I'll never truly get my money's worth from their end. All I really get to do is rent a superhero that's highly customizable and play in a fairly devoided world.
If CO had diverse content equal to WoW (or just a fraction of it...) or amazing storytelling ala SWTOR then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'd tell the OP the shove it up where the sun doesn't shine and be done with it. But the fact is, CO is terribly terribly lacking but we want to play superheroes so g*****n much we stick to it like glue regardless since those games are so rare. We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way...
SWTORs story lines can be rather interesting, but they are also kind of ridiculous for reasons I mentioned earlier about being stated to be uber powerful at level 10 but then at level 40 struggling to beat an overweight drunk smuggler unless you have 5 of your mates with you. Some Bounty Hunter.. that usually work alone. I use my jetpack when I punch someone or use death from above.. thats it. No flight, no cool moves. Powers have an interesting synergy but combat is still a really boring watch the countdown fest and I need to remember 50 hotkeys or just click the icon. CO only has a handful of available abilities at anyone time, maybe 25 ish if you have lots of goodies as opposed to the 50, and yet combat is more fun. I can do backflips that are not bound to an attack move. Huttball was fun for 20 minutes. Game looks neat (if you like square shadows).
CO does not take its self too seriously as far as story is concerned. Yes the plots are rather thin, and you do play the same content basically (a few choices, but not many). The story lines don't matter much as you make your own character and therefor your own story around the basic plot lines. Its my own roleplay. Its up to me to add all the detail and in that, each character becomes greatly different. Travelling to the desert or the snow means something for each character. I quite like that. If it gave me a heavy story It would greatly restrict my character choices. (and its just not possible given the customization of characters and their bio).
If your free gym membership required doing 30,000 leg lifts a month, I'm not sure that would be a good thing.
And the implication that I'm a child using mommy's cc is obnoxious. And also wrong.
If anything, it's the kiddos who see long days of grinding as a good use of their time. As someone who actually has money, spending a tiny bit of it to get fun stuff is a much better use of my time than warping my play experience to maximize pressing the food bar.
I'd rather spend a half hour of pay getting something and then go play to maximize my fun than treat this like some bizarre job with sh*t wages.
Oh I wasn't insinuating that you're a kid with your parent's credit card, I was giving the contrasting point of view to yours. Sorry if you felt you should take offense.
Going back to the gym membership; they wouldn't be requiring 30,000 leg lifts... they actually wouldn't be requiring anything. You wouldn't actually even have to go to the gym, since the actual membership is free no matter what you do... it's a F2P gym. Everytime you use one of their machines or do any sort of excersize there you accrue "Gymenite" points that you can eventually spend to get a T-Shirt with the gym's name on it. If you accrue 5,000 Gymenite points, you can use one of the really fancy machines.
Again, you see "long days of grinding".... I see "time spent playing a video game". All the things that you do when you play, I do them too. However, since I don't see any part of the game as "work" I suspect I actually enjoy the game more than you do (Irony?).
Here's a secret: If you don't treat the game like some bizarre job with sh*t wages... then it isn't. Gasp, I know.
I don't spend long days of grinding. In fact, the second I feel bored, I log out faster than you can say "Snapwaddle". Sure, it's taken me a while to get all the things I want... but you know what I've been doing all that while? I've been playing the game, and quite leisurely at that. I'm still not sure what people think is so terrible about actually having to play Champions Online to get stuff from the cash shop in Champions Online.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Edit: Sorry for bristling. I am, obviously, rather bitter about this game. (Because this is pretty much my favorite game that I can't bear to play in its present state)
My point is that if you want something in the game that costs serious zen (like FF slot), then 'casual play' is probably going to get you enough questionite to buy it in, oh... 10 years?
If you want to actually raise that kind of Q, you're going to feel pressure to maximize efficiency/time/notfun.
Now, for minor stuff, sure... a costume here and there, a character slot, maybe an AT (though those are pricier, worth waiting for sales).
I don't mind those items precisely because it's the sort of thing you can go 'oh, hey, I've happened to gain enough Q/zen to buy a little something.'
When I talk about 'work in game' I basically mean doing stuff not because they are fun but because it's the 'best' way to get Q. At which point I start thinking you're better off just spending the money.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
[...]
When I talk about 'work in game' I basically mean doing stuff not because they are fun but because it's the 'best' way to get Q. At which point I start thinking you're better off just spending the money.
Where is the stuff in game that is not fun? I don't think I have been to that part of the game world Sure, everything could be more fun, but I don't think I have ever run into something that feels like work. All the best ways to get Q are coincidentally the things I find most fun... maybe I'm just lucky and the game was basically designed to shower people like me with fun and rewards for free Lucky!
Also, 10 years is a bit of an exageration for getting a FF slot. 4 months if you only make 8k Q per day. I know, for some people that might as well be a lifetime...but having played this game for several years, it doesn't actually seem that long to me.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm a casual player. I fit playtime in around my life (and yes, I do have a life ). And unless I'm really struggling through content that I don't think is that much fun, I rarely pull down more than a handful of Q a day. That's why I didn't include a "Q grind" (which honestly, compared to grinds in certain Other Games, isn't a grind at all) as part of my assessment.
However, it's true enough - if you want some of the pay stuff badly enough, you can go looking for Q specifically so you can swap for it. That just isn't a major concern for me - if I want it that bad, I can usually manage to set twenty bucks aside and buy a UGC or PWE card, worth 2000 Zen. Doesn't come up as often as you might think...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
STO has LOTS of ways to get Dilithium (the Q equivalent). And that's fine for small stuff.
But when I want to buy a new starship? WAY easier to just save up some cash and spend it.
I've bought probably several hundred dollars worth of stuff since the game released, and feel happy having done so. There have been some purchases I really regretted, but on the whole, STO's really generous F2P system and content schedule makes me happy to open my wallet for them.
(I still have some lingering annoyance with Cryptic at their KDF content drought and the lies and massive heaps of stupid BS associated with it, but they've gone a long way toward repairing that with LoR)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
STO has LOTS of ways to get Dilithium (the Q equivalent). And that's fine for small stuff.
But when I want to buy a new starship? WAY easier to just save up some cash and spend it.
Heck, I've been happy with the free ships. (Although some of the stuff released for the Romulan Republic in LoR has me rethinking that stance... ) Then again, I was there for the Anniversary Event that gave my main the prototype Odyssey-class (USS Hans Asperger), and two of my toons so far have Risan corvettes (VA Sills owns the USS Ernest Mach, while Nniol tr'Keiniadh commands the Nn'ierh - later today, though, VA Sajak should wind up with the Harlan Ellison at his disposal). Oh, and of course there was the Ambassador-class from the Temporal Ambassador mission, although only VA Grunt, on my secondary account, really has much use for that one.
You know what? STO gives away a lot of ships, too. :biggrin:
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'm more likely to slap down cash for a ship when the free ships are cool, plentiful, and not objectively worse. Counter-intuitive, but morale matters.
It sometimes seems like Cryptic doesn't get that, outside of STO. Makes me wonder.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Well sorry if I don't jump in the absurd WoW hate band-wagon. I absolutely loved every single second I spent playing that game and many aspects of it I miss terribly (mainly organized groups and raids). It had a tremendous amount of lore, and since I had been playing since the first RTS game, it was a ton of fun seeing the world expand on those past games. Playing new alts never got boring to me either because you could at least choose a new faction or race and explore zones and quest lines that were not opened to you before. And I loved the cartoony art style, it had a very unique flair. I get tired of photo-realistic MMOs pretty quickly because they all end up looking the exact same in the end. Show me screenshot of any of those Korean games out there and I absolutely won't be able to tell you which game it is. WoW you recognize instantly.
I like CO as much as you guys; like I said, I've been gold since release. And yes, it has something WoW can only dream to have: superheroes and near limitless customization. That's why I'm playing after all. But those are it, the game has NOTHING else to offer. I have 25+ characters all of which went through the EXACT same quests and zones. I'm still running into bugs that has existed since launch and I know for g*****n sure they are still going to be there till the day the game finally dies out. The coding is so shodddy I can easily intentionally get quests to bug out. I haven't done coding work in 10 years, yet I probably could do a better job. How can you not feel completely abandoned by the developpers whom are so neglectful of their own game? Every penny that I spend on this game taste extremely bitter because I know I'll never truly get my money's worth from their end. All I really get to do is rent a superhero that's highly customizable and play in a fairly devoided world.
If CO had diverse content equal to WoW (or just a fraction of it...) or amazing storytelling ala SWTOR then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'd tell the OP the shove it up where the sun doesn't shine and be done with it. But the fact is, CO is terribly terribly lacking but we want to play superheroes so g*****n much we stick to it like glue regardless since those games are so rare. We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way...
Damn right on all counts.
Say what you like, but if it were at ALL possible to do so, and all involved parties agreed to it, the best damn possible thing that could happen both to CO and to Cryptic would be for PWE to drop them like a rock and have Blizzard buy them out instead, if for no other reason than so the game could have the needed money and backing to get a MUCH needed upgrade in community/dev interaction, tech-support/customer-service, and in-game stuff like bugfixes and patches, content-addition, and updates.
Whoops, meant Burst. Having BASH alerts would be cool, though...
Generally, this game needs more to do. That's one thing STO does VERY well -- it's easy to keep busy doing so many different things.
(Not crafting, but I'm seriously convinced Emmert or someone similarly high up in Cryptic fundamentally doesn't get why anyone would want to craft in a MMO and makes crafting systems with great grudge.)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
How do you justify this price? WoW has the same monthly price and actually adds content to it's game, GW2 has NO SUBS and adds more content to it's game than CO.
The only content seems to get is more micro-transaction nonsense. You want me to pay $14.99 a month, and then spend EVEN more on getting keys to unlock the stuff i pick up?
What a joke.
No doubt you have a point there. Sure you can (re)play all the content for free but usually you don't pay to get a second copy of a book that you own and you have already read.
You know if you buy a new archetype or you create a new freeform character or even you buy a new vehicle it is for using it with new content , not for eating the same soup again, again, again, again....
Or in more simple words : if you buy a motorbike , it is for you to travel and see the world, not to run in circles around your neighborhood
No, I mean I don't get what the cry of "Stockholm Syndrome!" had to do with what was being discussed.
The guy that you quoted said that CO players suffer from the "Stockholm Syndrome!" because I quote him:
"We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way..."
Basically we love Cryptic and PWE that are keeping us hostages and we try to defend them from the SWAT team that try to free us or better yet from the other players that try to get free
The guy that you quoted said that CO players suffer from the "Stockholm Syndrome!" because I quote him:
"We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way..."
Basically we love Cryptic and PWE that are keeping us hostages and we try to defend them from the SWAT team that try to free us or better yet from the other players that try to get free
Ah, gotcha. I missed that part and thought he was taking a weird sideways-jab at WoW's fanbase or something.
The guy that you quoted said that CO players suffer from the "Stockholm Syndrome!" because I quote him:
"We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way..."
Basically we love Cryptic and PWE that are keeping us hostages and we try to defend them from the SWAT team that try to free us or better yet from the other players that try to get free
A great example of this is how excited and grateful everyone was for a disgustingly over-priced EMOTE PACK.
Ah, gotcha. I missed that part and thought he was taking a weird sideways-jab at WoW's fanbase or something.
Yeah, basically what I was saying was that CO players cling to the game like battered wifes cling to their abusive husband. Even though they are given little reasons to, they still love and defend them. The one tender loving smile they might get once in a while (the equivalent of the one whole new mission we get once per month) is enough for them to swear unconditional love to them even though more often than not it's a slap to the face they are getting (the equivalent of EVERYTHING WRONG with this game).
Don't ask me what smoochan was babbling on about though, I have no effing clue.
Yeah, basically what I was saying was that CO players cling to the game like battered wifes cling to their abusive husband. Even though they are given little reasons to, they still love and defend them. The one tender loving smile they might get once in a while (the equivalent of the one whole new mission we get once per month) is enough for them to swear unconditional love to them even though more often than not it's a slap to the face they are getting (the equivalent of EVERYTHING WRONG with this game).
Don't ask me what smoochan was babbling on about though, I have no effing clue.
The game doesn't have the ability to abuse someone.
I don't think the price is reasonable at all (es considering some of it was just re-sold removed-content)
I think people were just appreciative to be able to buy something directly for Zen and had plenty of zen to spend at the time of the release.
The success of selling these emotes is bad precedent. Next they'll sell you more removed content like the removed crafting social zones, costumes, power-replacers.
Worst business practices I've seen.. Here buy this game for 15.99 a month with all these features.
*2 years later removes features*
Look at this shiny pack of features we removed from you! Now you can buy them!
I don't think the price is reasonable at all (es considering some of it was just re-sold removed-content)
I think people were just appreciative to be able to buy something directly for Zen and had plenty of zen to spend at the time of the release.
The success of selling these emotes is bad precedent. Next they'll sell you more removed content like the removed crafting social zones, costumes, power-replacers.
Worst business practices I've seen.. Here buy this game for 15.99 a month with all these features.
*2 years later removes features*
Look at this shiny pack of features we removed from you! Now you can buy them!
Aren't these the same emotes that never actually existed in the live game ? The same ones that STO players paid for ?
These emotes cost about as much as a cup of coffee.
I seem to recall costume sets (which are currently the same price as the emote pack) to be 380 CP back in the days, not to mention the frequent 20-25% off sales they had back then which dropped the price even lower. $5 may not seem like that big of a deal of an increase but in the grand scheme of things, it is.
Also, for a pack that only offers dance moves, something the game had already quantity of, it does feel a tad overpriced.
No, you're over-complicating a simple situation by making comparisons to physical abuse. Just call a spade a spade already.
I was explaining my use of 'stockholm syndrome' in a previous post to someone that asked about it, and that person isn't you. So get off my case? Thank you.
I was explaining my use of 'stockholm syndrome' in a previous post to someone that asked about it, and that person isn't you. So get off my case? Thank you.
You said we've developed Stockholm syndrome and we act like abused wives. If people keep saying stupid things, I'm going to say things are stupid.
The game doesn't have the ability to abuse someone.
For those unaware: It seems like any discussions about Cryptic's business practices invariably end up leading to mention of Stockholm Syndrome. It happens so much, that we have a bell for it.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
You said we've developed Stockholm syndrome and we act like abused wives.
So? If the cap doesn't fit you, don't put it. Doesn't change the fact the some players act in that manner. Also for God's sake, it's a freakin' analogy, it's not ment to be taken literally. So, please, get off your high horse.
So? If the cap doesn't fit you, don't put it. Doesn't change the fact the some players act in that manner. Also for God's sake, it's a freakin' analogy, it's not ment to be taken literally. So, please, get off your high horse.
You appear to be taking it literally.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I thought the "Stockholm Syndrome" reference was to those poor benighted souls who still think WoW is original, pretty, and/or fun for anyone who isn't into getting ganked in PvP (the PvE gets, frankly, pretty doggone boring after about the twentieth or thirtieth kobold). They've spent so long grinding ores and playing at cooking and learning to walk everywhere before being permitted a horse (that only moves at a canter until you get another twenty levels under your belt), they have to believe it was all worth it.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The implication that Cryptic studios treats Champions Online customers without their deserved dignity or respect translates quite resoundingly to an abusive relationship.
The people here who are arguing the contrary are truly just winning internet points. Slowly building a bridge to live under practicing their favorite rhymes like:
"You have to play the troll toll to get into that boys soul"
I thought the "Stockholm Syndrome" reference was to those poor benighted souls who still think WoW is original, pretty, and/or fun for anyone who isn't into getting ganked in PvP (the PvE gets, frankly, pretty doggone boring after about the twentieth or thirtieth kobold). They've spent so long grinding ores and playing at cooking and learning to walk everywhere before being permitted a horse (that only moves at a canter until you get another twenty levels under your belt), they have to believe it was all worth it.
Your opinion on the game aside, atleast the developers for WoW -develop- their product.
So? If the cap doesn't fit you, don't put it. Doesn't change the fact the some players act in that manner. Also for God's sake, it's a freakin' analogy, it's not ment to be taken literally. So, please, get off your high horse.
High horse? You think that I think I'm better than you because I don't agree with your analogy?
Comments
Yes, you don't need money. You just have to make a fraction of minimum wage 'working' on CO to gain enough resources to get stuff 'for free.'
Frankly, it'd be way easier just to spend money, but hey, it's something for the unemployable to do or as an occasional perk. (at least for the cheap zen stuff -- I can't imagine anyone sane managing to raise the questionite for enough zen to get a FF slot, jeebus)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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On this we agree completely. When people try to imply that Cryptic has ever forced a purchase on anyone, or that Cryptic is somehow a "money hungry corporate machine"...it seems silly.
I work for my money, so I spend it carefully. Frivolous purchases in a game might be something fun and whimsical for kids who have access to mummy and daddy's credit card to do, but some of us actually see our money as a valuable resource and want to get all the value we can for every last dollar.
When people try to allude that you have to "work" in game to get stuff for free... the old grump in me comes running out to give a lecture on what real work is. To me, it's a pretty sweet deal that I can get all this stuff for free, and the only thing I have to do to actually get that stuff for free is to play a video game... and not just any video game, this video game.
If they let me pay for my gym membership by going to the gym, that'd be a pretty sweet deal too, don't you think?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
And the implication that I'm a child using mommy's cc is obnoxious. And also wrong.
If anything, it's the kiddos who see long days of grinding as a good use of their time. As someone who actually has money, spending a tiny bit of it to get fun stuff is a much better use of my time than warping my play experience to maximize pressing the food bar.
I'd rather spend a half hour of pay getting something and then go play to maximize my fun than treat this like some bizarre job with sh*t wages.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Well sorry if I don't jump in the absurd WoW hate band-wagon. I absolutely loved every single second I spent playing that game and many aspects of it I miss terribly (mainly organized groups and raids). It had a tremendous amount of lore, and since I had been playing since the first RTS game, it was a ton of fun seeing the world expand on those past games. Playing new alts never got boring to me either because you could at least choose a new faction or race and explore zones and quest lines that were not opened to you before. And I loved the cartoony art style, it had a very unique flair. I get tired of photo-realistic MMOs pretty quickly because they all end up looking the exact same in the end. Show me screenshot of any of those Korean games out there and I absolutely won't be able to tell you which game it is. WoW you recognize instantly.
I like CO as much as you guys; like I said, I've been gold since release. And yes, it has something WoW can only dream to have: superheroes and near limitless customization. That's why I'm playing after all. But those are it, the game has NOTHING else to offer. I have 25+ characters all of which went through the EXACT same quests and zones. I'm still running into bugs that has existed since launch and I know for g*****n sure they are still going to be there till the day the game finally dies out. The coding is so shodddy I can easily intentionally get quests to bug out. I haven't done coding work in 10 years, yet I probably could do a better job. How can you not feel completely abandoned by the developpers whom are so neglectful of their own game? Every penny that I spend on this game taste extremely bitter because I know I'll never truly get my money's worth from their end. All I really get to do is rent a superhero that's highly customizable and play in a fairly devoided world.
If CO had diverse content equal to WoW (or just a fraction of it...) or amazing storytelling ala SWTOR then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'd tell the OP the shove it up where the sun doesn't shine and be done with it. But the fact is, CO is terribly terribly lacking but we want to play superheroes so g*****n much we stick to it like glue regardless since those games are so rare. We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way...
CO does not take its self too seriously as far as story is concerned. Yes the plots are rather thin, and you do play the same content basically (a few choices, but not many). The story lines don't matter much as you make your own character and therefor your own story around the basic plot lines. Its my own roleplay. Its up to me to add all the detail and in that, each character becomes greatly different. Travelling to the desert or the snow means something for each character. I quite like that. If it gave me a heavy story It would greatly restrict my character choices. (and its just not possible given the customization of characters and their bio).
Oh I wasn't insinuating that you're a kid with your parent's credit card, I was giving the contrasting point of view to yours. Sorry if you felt you should take offense.
Going back to the gym membership; they wouldn't be requiring 30,000 leg lifts... they actually wouldn't be requiring anything. You wouldn't actually even have to go to the gym, since the actual membership is free no matter what you do... it's a F2P gym. Everytime you use one of their machines or do any sort of excersize there you accrue "Gymenite" points that you can eventually spend to get a T-Shirt with the gym's name on it. If you accrue 5,000 Gymenite points, you can use one of the really fancy machines.
Again, you see "long days of grinding".... I see "time spent playing a video game". All the things that you do when you play, I do them too. However, since I don't see any part of the game as "work" I suspect I actually enjoy the game more than you do (Irony?).
Here's a secret: If you don't treat the game like some bizarre job with sh*t wages... then it isn't. Gasp, I know.
I don't spend long days of grinding. In fact, the second I feel bored, I log out faster than you can say "Snapwaddle". Sure, it's taken me a while to get all the things I want... but you know what I've been doing all that while? I've been playing the game, and quite leisurely at that. I'm still not sure what people think is so terrible about actually having to play Champions Online to get stuff from the cash shop in Champions Online.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
My point is that if you want something in the game that costs serious zen (like FF slot), then 'casual play' is probably going to get you enough questionite to buy it in, oh... 10 years?
If you want to actually raise that kind of Q, you're going to feel pressure to maximize efficiency/time/notfun.
Now, for minor stuff, sure... a costume here and there, a character slot, maybe an AT (though those are pricier, worth waiting for sales).
I don't mind those items precisely because it's the sort of thing you can go 'oh, hey, I've happened to gain enough Q/zen to buy a little something.'
When I talk about 'work in game' I basically mean doing stuff not because they are fun but because it's the 'best' way to get Q. At which point I start thinking you're better off just spending the money.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Where is the stuff in game that is not fun? I don't think I have been to that part of the game world
Also, 10 years is a bit of an exageration for getting a FF slot. 4 months if you only make 8k Q per day. I know, for some people that might as well be a lifetime...but having played this game for several years, it doesn't actually seem that long to me.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Things that are not fun:
'Ok, today's daily is BASH alerts. I hate BASH alerts.'
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
However, it's true enough - if you want some of the pay stuff badly enough, you can go looking for Q specifically so you can swap for it. That just isn't a major concern for me - if I want it that bad, I can usually manage to set twenty bucks aside and buy a UGC or PWE card, worth 2000 Zen. Doesn't come up as often as you might think...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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STO has LOTS of ways to get Dilithium (the Q equivalent). And that's fine for small stuff.
But when I want to buy a new starship? WAY easier to just save up some cash and spend it.
I've bought probably several hundred dollars worth of stuff since the game released, and feel happy having done so. There have been some purchases I really regretted, but on the whole, STO's really generous F2P system and content schedule makes me happy to open my wallet for them.
(I still have some lingering annoyance with Cryptic at their KDF content drought and the lies and massive heaps of stupid BS associated with it, but they've gone a long way toward repairing that with LoR)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You know what? STO gives away a lot of ships, too. :biggrin:
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It sometimes seems like Cryptic doesn't get that, outside of STO. Makes me wonder.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
...quit teasing the pvpers.
Smash/Grab/Burst alerts are all fun to me :P
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Damn right on all counts.
Say what you like, but if it were at ALL possible to do so, and all involved parties agreed to it, the best damn possible thing that could happen both to CO and to Cryptic would be for PWE to drop them like a rock and have Blizzard buy them out instead, if for no other reason than so the game could have the needed money and backing to get a MUCH needed upgrade in community/dev interaction, tech-support/customer-service, and in-game stuff like bugfixes and patches, content-addition, and updates.
Fiun Fact: Did you know if you google stockholm syndrome gif you get
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
...what. No, seriously, what the heck does that have to do with what I said?
Nothing, that's why I didn't quote what you said. What you quoted on the other hand...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Generally, this game needs more to do. That's one thing STO does VERY well -- it's easy to keep busy doing so many different things.
(Not crafting, but I'm seriously convinced Emmert or someone similarly high up in Cryptic fundamentally doesn't get why anyone would want to craft in a MMO and makes crafting systems with great grudge.)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
...still not seeing your point.
It's because you quoted is something *I* said. I have many admirers you see...
No, I mean I don't get what the cry of "Stockholm Syndrome!" had to do with what was being discussed.
You know if you buy a new archetype or you create a new freeform character or even you buy a new vehicle it is for using it with new content , not for eating the same soup again, again, again, again....
Or in more simple words : if you buy a motorbike , it is for you to travel and see the world, not to run in circles around your neighborhood
"We have develop Stockholm syndrome and we content ourselves with the smallest crumbs that come our way like it's the biggest thing ever. We are so used to get so little, we ask never ask for better. No other game community would put up with this, but we do - we're special that way..."
Basically we love Cryptic and PWE that are keeping us hostages and we try to defend them from the SWAT team that try to free us or better yet from the other players that try to get free
Ah, gotcha. I missed that part and thought he was taking a weird sideways-jab at WoW's fanbase or something.
A great example of this is how excited and grateful everyone was for a disgustingly over-priced EMOTE PACK.
We love the game, and we've lowered our standards of expectations. We recognize all the flaws, but hey, at least we're getting new stuff.
Yeah, basically what I was saying was that CO players cling to the game like battered wifes cling to their abusive husband. Even though they are given little reasons to, they still love and defend them. The one tender loving smile they might get once in a while (the equivalent of the one whole new mission we get once per month) is enough for them to swear unconditional love to them even though more often than not it's a slap to the face they are getting (the equivalent of EVERYTHING WRONG with this game).
Don't ask me what smoochan was babbling on about though, I have no effing clue.
Pretty reasonably priced IMO.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
The game doesn't have the ability to abuse someone.
I don't think the price is reasonable at all (es considering some of it was just re-sold removed-content)
I think people were just appreciative to be able to buy something directly for Zen and had plenty of zen to spend at the time of the release.
The success of selling these emotes is bad precedent. Next they'll sell you more removed content like the removed crafting social zones, costumes, power-replacers.
Worst business practices I've seen.. Here buy this game for 15.99 a month with all these features.
*2 years later removes features*
Look at this shiny pack of features we removed from you! Now you can buy them!
Aren't these the same emotes that never actually existed in the live game ? The same ones that STO players paid for ?
These emotes cost about as much as a cup of coffee.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
You're overthinking it.
I seem to recall costume sets (which are currently the same price as the emote pack) to be 380 CP back in the days, not to mention the frequent 20-25% off sales they had back then which dropped the price even lower. $5 may not seem like that big of a deal of an increase but in the grand scheme of things, it is.
Also, for a pack that only offers dance moves, something the game had already quantity of, it does feel a tad overpriced.
I was explaining my use of 'stockholm syndrome' in a previous post to someone that asked about it, and that person isn't you. So get off my case? Thank you.
380 CP x $1/80 CP x 100 Zen/$1 = 475 Zen
Those costume sets were the same price they are now.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
You said we've developed Stockholm syndrome and we act like abused wives. If people keep saying stupid things, I'm going to say things are stupid.
Aaaaw... someone just stopped it ringing
For those unaware: It seems like any discussions about Cryptic's business practices invariably end up leading to mention of Stockholm Syndrome. It happens so much, that we have a bell for it.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I thought the irony of it would go hand in hand with the original mention of stockholm syndrome as it was presented.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Point: Smoochan.
So? If the cap doesn't fit you, don't put it. Doesn't change the fact the some players act in that manner. Also for God's sake, it's a freakin' analogy, it's not ment to be taken literally. So, please, get off your high horse.
Ah didn't remember what the currency converted to. I stand corrected. I still think it's overpriced for the kind of emotes they are however...
You appear to be taking it literally.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The people here who are arguing the contrary are truly just winning internet points. Slowly building a bridge to live under practicing their favorite rhymes like:
"You have to play the troll toll to get into that boys soul"
Your opinion on the game aside, atleast the developers for WoW -develop- their product.
twitch
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
High horse? You think that I think I'm better than you because I don't agree with your analogy?
Settle down.