I actually tried it a couple years ago, might have been when it first came out, not sure.
I thought the art style was great, reminiscent of WoW. But, like TERA, is it going to be anything different? Is it a free WoW? What's it do that's new and exciting?
You know, a friend and I had this conversation a while back.
The reason there's not a whole lot of 'new and different'...? Well, prime example- the Xbox One. Backlash. Why? Because, well- gamers find a way they like to do things, like MMO's, and they kinda want something 'different but similar'.
We don't always want to eat a burger. But when we do go out to eat, we want to sit at a table with a chair and not have someone feed us gravy through a fire hose because it's 'different' and 'unique'. The same thing keeps happening over and over, because people want something familiar.
The mount system? Well- you can do this two ways-
So far, I haven't needed on. The 'autowalk' thing is awesome. Click your point on the map, and you walk there without having to hold down buttons and navigate manually. Secondly, you can convert the in-game currency for the 'Zen' equivalent on Allods. So you could grind for it.
How do you justify this price? WoW has the same monthly price and actually adds content to it's game, GW2 has NO SUBS and adds more content to it's game than CO.
The only content seems to get is more micro-transaction nonsense. You want me to pay $14.99 a month, and then spend EVEN more on getting keys to unlock the stuff i pick up?
What a joke.
It's Free 2 play... if you don't think a small fee of $15 is worth it then don't pay it. I hope you don't think they should just give you the whole game for free. However I do think they should give silvers at least 1 freeform with limitations to use.
How do you justify this price? WoW has the same monthly price and actually adds content to it's game, GW2 has NO SUBS and adds more content to it's game than CO.
The only content seems to get is more micro-transaction nonsense. You want me to pay $14.99 a month, and then spend EVEN more on getting keys to unlock the stuff i pick up?
What a joke.
Granted I didn't read the other comments and have no idea what was said already. Not that it would have mattered because I am going to say what I say anyways so don't take it the wrong way but... I understand.
Me personally $15 is throw away money. I spend more than $15 on a meal that is sometimes not very filling, but that is me and wouldn't tell someone to do the same.
Although I suspect that most devs, and other game staff get paid about the same range of pay and even though WoW is raking in millions a day, and this game may make, what, about a million or so a quarter, just a blind guess and nothing more, the devs and staff still get paid. Less money a game make less money available for the game itself. The top dogs definitely will get their cut no matter what, cost of running bill, then the staff and devs, and what ever is left over might go into the game improvement budget or rolled over into something they feel make money per dollar invested or a mixture of the two.
But the real money these days or rather the FoTM for games is F2P and micro-transactions. I have a gut feeling, or maybe it's just the barbacoa tacos, that they may prefer a player to buy stuff even if they pay a subscription. Where all that money goes in this games, heavens know where.
I have a feeling some people probably stated the usual "don't like it don't pay" thing which isn't invalid but I figure that already crossed your mind anyways. It's in my mind that a person that pays $15 a month gets their money worth. And worth is something that varies from person to person. Some people don't think WoW is worth paying $15 a month or else they would be there, everyone would be there paying month to month.
Also the main thing is probably the usual that they charge what they can get away with within their particular field. If every game started to charge $25 a month, I suspect that they would also start to charge $25 a month updates or not. But the main thing is that the price is set, and sometimes people don't feel $15 is worth it. Now, you can technically play this game without spending a single dime, but the flip side of that is that is less money and less chance of updates. I personally wont knock ya for that. While even more though if you continue to pay $15 a month but don't feel it' worth it, then while you help financing it, the question will eventually come up is it worth continuing to do so? That is a question that only an individual person can answer for themselves and seems you answered it. And I understand you answer to that question. It's your money that you probably worked your butt off to get and should always choose to spend it on stuff that is worth it.
[...]
Champs does something different, but it's a shame it's being forgotten and left in the dust.
I've found a good thing to do is to play champs for the thing it does different (costume editor, freeform)...then five minutes later when you get bored of batting around barely-conscious bags of hit points, go play something like TERA for combat that's actually engaging. Sure, they don't have a costume editor, and they have a class based system, but at some point it actually comes time to leave character creation and actually play the game... that's where TERA sprints ahead of CO.
When I play TERA, I don't need stories or quests or any of that other stuff. I just log in and start fighting stuff, because that's that games strong point: The gameplay.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I've found a good thing to do is to play champs for the thing it does different (costume editor, freeform)...then five minutes later when you get bored of batting around barely-conscious bags of hit points, go play something like TERA for combat that's actually engaging. Sure, they don't have a costume editor, and they have a class based system, but at some point it actually comes time to leave character creation and actually play the game... that's where TERA sprints ahead of CO.
When I play TERA, I don't need stories or quests or any of that other stuff. I just log in and start fighting stuff, because that's that games strong point: The gameplay.
I'm only two days into the game, and I already spend more time in Champs. I didn't find anything terribly exciting about TERA's combat. It's basically Neverwinter, so far (well, close - my giant sword actually hits like a giant sword should in TERA). I honestly still like Champs combat better than any other MMO I've tried.
I've found a good thing to do is to play champs for the thing it does different (costume editor, freeform)...then five minutes later when you get bored of batting around barely-conscious bags of hit points, go play something like TERA for combat that's actually engaging. Sure, they don't have a costume editor, and they have a class based system, but at some point it actually comes time to leave character creation and actually play the game... that's where TERA sprints ahead of CO.
When I play TERA, I don't need stories or quests or any of that other stuff. I just log in and start fighting stuff, because that's that games strong point: The gameplay.
I'd argue that the action-paced combat gameplay of CO can be considered one of its strong points.
I agree. It can be really easy, but it can also be quite challenging when the AI starts to flank you and swap positions to stronger opponents. It can be quite unpredictable at times, which can catch me off guard. I like that. But I like to use balanced toons rather than uber toons. Champs for me was a 200ish point character thats disadvantages balanced them out.
TERA's combat draws more parallels to Vindictus/PSO/Monster Hunter; mostly real time and reaction based. If you love action'ish console titles, you'll probably love TERA.
(somewhat old screenshot, as that mystic has long been 60, but gives you an idea of size comparison of the early level BAMS.)
Just wait till you get to BAM's and Dungeons. Outside of combat and aesthetics though....it's not much you havent seen.
TERA's combat draws more parallels to Vindictus/PSO/Monster Hunter; mostly real time and reaction based. If you love action'ish console titles, you'll probably love TERA.
(somewhat old screenshot, as that mystic has long been 60, but gives you an idea of size comparison of the early level BAMS.)
Just wait till you get to BAM's and Dungeons. Outside of combat and aesthetics though....it's not much you havent seen.
Monster Hunter is 1000% more awesome than Tera. Dont insult MH by comparing it to that drivel.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Lack of story
'Hi, we're doing mumble!'
Why is my character here? Why do I care? This feels like about half of other fantasy MMOs and nothing about it strikes me as interesting.
One of the first NPCs I talk to has breasts that look like they are trying to wriggle free out of her dress. Literally. She's just standing there, and her boobs are writhing and moving like some alien is about to burst out.
Jiggle physics gone stupid.
The two factors, plus lack of anything that really grabbed me, and I was done.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Lack of story
'Hi, we're doing mumble!'
Why is my character here? Why do I care? This feels like about half of other fantasy MMOs and nothing about it strikes me as interesting.
One of the first NPCs I talk to has breasts that look like they are trying to wriggle free out of her dress. Literally. She's just standing there, and her boobs are writhing and moving like some alien is about to burst out.
Jiggle physics gone stupid.
The two factors, plus lack of anything that really grabbed me, and I was done.
Yeah. And that NPC is EVERYWHERE. Like, same face same dress same sentient wriggly boobs, same animations. EVERYWHERE. I swear I've talked to like 13 different versions of her already and I'm only like level 16.
And yeah there is an editor, but only for your character's face and head. No height adjust or muscle bulk or anything. And for the faces you gotta work off of templates. For example, only 2 of the 8 human head templates can have a beard. Well, one, really. I don't count wispy "got no testosterone" anime "beards" as beards.
Yeah, build and physique would have been nice( kinda wanted my Human/Amani to be slender, or have my High Elven archer be less endowed) but it is what it is; lot of it runs on Rule of Cool/Sexy and impossibly cool clothes. You can sorta craft your own look with template/dye system, by keeping the stats of one set of gear, while using the look of another.
Anyways, enough gushing about TERA; got my 7 month fill of it. If you are on Tempest Reach, biff, and feel like teaming or something, hit me up at Riclen/ Abbas/ Yulae. Though I don't have anyone below 30 and I'm not sure who I can use while being a non-subscriber...but I can get you into a pretty social/casual guild, so you can bypass all the iLevel and queue drama.
I dunno what server I'm on, but it's a PvP server full of gankholes. Also, social is so far outside my alley that I can't even see it while looking out the window with a telescope. :P
Like I said, TERA doesn't have much in the way of story or editing. But you know... sometimes i wanna play a video game... not character creator.
The action in CO seems action packed until you actually start to think about what's actually going on. The majority of content is simply you selecting a target, and activating a power until that target's HP meter is empty, while making sure your HP meter does not empty. You can sort of fool yourself into thinking there's more to it than that by using powers that require you to watch buff and debuff timers and things like that, but the fact that you don't have to do that means that you are artificially injecting more action, rather than that action being inherent to the gameplay.
The best example is travel powers; we have these awesome travel powers that could make combat this amazing fast-paced action-packed ride... but none of the content ever requires that you have a travel power active for any reason. The exception is Gravitar; for all the hate she's recieved, she's the best content this game has, because she's the only content that actually has an inherent action-based quality to her gameplay. Everything else is really just stand-n-spam, unless you're willing to pretend.
The only thing that makes this any different is Knocks, which is why people who use knocks a lot see a lot more action, because it literally looks more actiony. Again though, once you start thinking about what's going on (and after a few years I just can't help it), you realize how little action is actually taking place.
It's an example of all style and no substance. Hey don't get me wrong, that's not the worst thing ever, but after a while that super model you're in a relationship with? You might actually want to have a conversation with them... and when you realize at some point that the only thing they can ever talk to you about is their cat... yeah.
I dunno what server I'm on, but it's a PvP server full of gankholes. Also, social is so far outside my alley that I can't even see it while looking out the window with a telescope. :P
Yeah don't go to a pvp server. That's generally a bad idea in any mmo :P Try another server without pvp, you'll have a lot more fun since you can actually play without being interrupted by bungholes. The social aspect is there; they also have zone chats filled with people talking about random nonsense, just like CO. Gets better if you join a guild, since guilds actually kinda have a point over there. I don't blame you if that's not your thing though... I'm not big on guilds either.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Like I said, TERA doesn't have much in the way of story or editing. But you know... sometimes i wanna play a video game... not character creator.
The action in CO seems action packed until you actually start to think about what's actually going on. The majority of content is simply you selecting a target, and activating a power until that target's HP meter is empty, while making sure your HP meter does not empty. You can sort of fool yourself into thinking there's more to it than that by using powers that require you to watch buff and debuff timers and things like that, but the fact that you don't have to do that means that you are artificially injecting more action, rather than that action being inherent to the gameplay.
The best example is travel powers; we have these awesome travel powers that could make combat this amazing fast-paced action-packed ride... but none of the content ever requires that you have a travel power active for any reason. The exception is Gravitar; for all the hate she's recieved, she's the best content this game has, because she's the only content that actually has an inherent action-based quality to her gameplay. Everything else is really just stand-n-spam, unless you're willing to pretend.
The only thing that makes this any different is Knocks, which is why people who use knocks a lot see a lot more action, because it literally looks more actiony. Again though, once you start thinking about what's going on (and after a few years I just can't help it), you realize how little action is actually taking place.
It's an example of all style and no substance. Hey don't get me wrong, that's not the worst thing ever, but after a while that super model you're in a relationship with? You might actually want to have a conversation with them... and when you realize at some point that the only thing they can ever talk to you about is their cat... yeah.
Like I said, TERA doesn't have much in the way of story or editing. But you know... sometimes i wanna play a video game... not character creator.
The action in CO seems action packed until you actually start to think about what's actually going on. The majority of content is simply you selecting a target, and activating a power until that target's HP meter is empty, while making sure your HP meter does not empty. You can sort of fool yourself into thinking there's more to it than that by using powers that require you to watch buff and debuff timers and things like that, but the fact that you don't have to do that means that you are artificially injecting more action, rather than that action being inherent to the gameplay.
The best example is travel powers; we have these awesome travel powers that could make combat this amazing fast-paced action-packed ride... but none of the content ever requires that you have a travel power active for any reason. The exception is Gravitar; for all the hate she's recieved, she's the best content this game has, because she's the only content that actually has an inherent action-based quality to her gameplay. Everything else is really just stand-n-spam, unless you're willing to pretend.
The only thing that makes this any different is Knocks, which is why people who use knocks a lot see a lot more action, because it literally looks more actiony. Again though, once you start thinking about what's going on (and after a few years I just can't help it), you realize how little action is actually taking place.
It's an example of all style and no substance. Hey don't get me wrong, that's not the worst thing ever, but after a while that super model you're in a relationship with? You might actually want to have a conversation with them... and when you realize at some point that the only thing they can ever talk to you about is their cat... yeah.
Yeah don't go to a pvp server. That's generally a bad idea in any mmo :P Try another server without pvp, you'll have a lot more fun since you can actually play without being interrupted by bungholes. The social aspect is there; they also have zone chats filled with people talking about random nonsense, just like CO. Gets better if you join a guild, since guilds actually kinda have a point over there. I don't blame you if that's not your thing though... I'm not big on guilds either.
No, I like PVP servers. Switching to a PVE server will ruin the experience for me even more.
All that you said though about all style and no substance has left me wondering, what exactly is the substance in Tera? The combat seems no different to me so far than your standard MMO.
Has a DMC-lite feel to it; you getting hit is your own dang fault, as oppose to a hit-chance. Some of the races actually have hit-box advantages and what-not( slight differences, mind you). Probably the fighting game buff in me but, kinda dig combat systems like that.
Gotta warn ya though....endgame gear grind is horrendous. RNG will make you its female dog.
No, I like PVP servers. Switching to a PVE server will ruin the experience for me even more.
All that you said though about all style and no substance has left me wondering, what exactly is the substance in Tera? The combat seems no different to me so far than your standard MMO.
I play Tera for the PLOT. Delicious Castanic plot.
Has a DMC-lite feel to it; you getting hit is your own dang fault, as oppose to a hit-chance. Some of the races actually have hit-box advantages and what-not( slight differences, mind you). Probably the fighting game buff in me but, kinda dig combat systems like that.
Gotta warn ya though....endgame gear grind is horrendous. RNG will make you its female dog.
I actually found TERA to be too slow-paced for an action MMO. As an archer it felt like I was taking ages between skill activations and there was no proper stunlock/combo mechanic. I think the technology isn't quite there yet to do full fledged action goodness.
Of course, NWO was worse. I facepalmed when I saw my projectiles were homing and autohit.
As far as games with that kind of system go, I'd rather play the instanced games like C9/Phantasy Star Online 2/Dragon Nest/Vindictus that play smoother and have a proper hitstun and combo system on top of the skill-based aiming.
Yeah, archer is probably my last class to get to cap( if i ever go back); not the most loved of classes. Warrior, however, is basically a hyperactive ninja. PSO/Vinny D/PSU were great for there times, but fall victim to the one combo chain thing and get insanely repetitive fast. Can't speak of PSO2 though, but I might check it out.
CABAL also branded itself as a action mmo...but was still locked behind the usual Korean grind crapfest. They're are steps in the right direction, but I doubt we'll see something as fluid as DMC 4 anytime soon.
Me too. How do their outfits stay in place during a fight? At all?
Science demands an answer.
After seeing so many outfits like that on this blog, I've come to the conclusion that they stay up by sheer force of will from protective mothers everywhere... That or they're wearing fancy duct tape. I have half a mind to tear it off just to see what'd happen besides bubbies being exposed.
No, I like PVP servers. Switching to a PVE server will ruin the experience for me even more.
All that you said though about all style and no substance has left me wondering, what exactly is the substance in Tera? The combat seems no different to me so far than your standard MMO.
The substance comes from the fact that what you do matters. Your ability to react matters. Your choices matter. You don't have to pretend that you have to use your abilities, and you don't have to pretend that you have to move.. because you actually have to do those things. There's something to learn when fighting certain enemies, it's not just a bunch of recolored bags of hit points; different monsters have different attack styles, and quite often the key to beating those monsters is learning their attacks and how to maintain an offense while defending yourself.
In CO, every enemy is the same, and you could deal with all the content in the game while using only 2 active abilities, and moving only when it's time to hoof it over to the next bag of hit points. But it looks really cool, and you can jump around and use different abilities if you want to pretend it makes a difference.
The combat in TERA is not like combat in a standard MMO. However, the standard is, thankfully, changing to become what TERA's combat is, since people seem to be getting tired of the old "tab target" routine that CO is still a part of.
Has a DMC-lite feel to it; you getting hit is your own dang fault, as oppose to a hit-chance. Some of the races actually have hit-box advantages and what-not( slight differences, mind you). Probably the fighting game buff in me but, kinda dig combat systems like that.
Gotta warn ya though....endgame gear grind is horrendous. RNG will make you its female dog.
Actually, the endgame gear grind isn't bad at all, in fact it's one of the things that I like about the game because in a lot of ways it's similar to what you have in CO. At first glance you might think "oh gawd, I have to grind all these dungeons over and over and then grind enchanting mats to get everything +12 and then do it all over again for the next tier oh god!"
That's not true though. The truth is, all you have to do is run Nexus for about a week and a half. Get all your Nexus gear, enchant it to +9. Congratulations, you now have the gear level needed to complete any content in the game, if you've got skill. The lower the player's skill, the better gear they'll need to compensate.
So really, how grindy the gear grind is is inversly proportional to your skill level as a player.
Me too. How do their outfits stay in place during a fight? At all?
Science demands an answer.
They're sticky. Not the outfits... the people. Use your imagination to figure out why they're sticky all the time... it has to do with the outfits they're wearing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
After seeing so many outfits like that on this blog, I've come to the conclusion that they stay up by sheer force of will from protective mothers everywhere... That or they're wearing fancy duct tape. I have half a mind to tear it off just to see what'd happen besides bubbies being exposed.
for fashion items, it's double sided tape. in some case, hairspray, makes it stick.
hmm, while trying to download tera online, norton securitygets set off,
launcher.exe, contains, suspicious.cloud.5
tera is now not downloading and removed
Though I'm not surprised "YOU KNEED MAI HALP?" guy made the list http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztGk7tggzaI , I'd switch it with 3 myself. Stuff like that brings back Lineage memories....the bad kind of memories, mind you.
WoW = 8 million players, with hundreds of thousands a night across dozens of servers, with constant updates for balance and bugfixes, and now about to finish its fourth expansion, still going strong after nearly a decade of operation, with some of the best customer service in the business, with their real-money store selling cosmetic-only items with no gambling.
CO = Lucky to get one full server a night, its last "update" gave it more bugs than it already had, balance is nonexistent, and has zero expansions despite multiple requests for them, on shaky-at-best ground since going free-to-play and changing owners about a year ago, the real-money store involves buying entire part of the game and tons of gambling, and it's like pulling teeth to get devs to talk about anything other than lockboxes.
Now, what was that about WoW "falling short"?
Can you play a superhero in wow ?
If not, it falls short.
Sure, you can't play a superhero in WoW, but can you really dismiss *everything else* solely based on that? Listen, I've been paying the monthly fee since release and I'm not about to stop either (because apparently I'm masochistic) but even then I can man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW and other games out there. Meager content, absent game support, no end content, rampant unexcusable bugs which are never going to be fixed, microtransactions forced even on gold members and no improvement on the horizon. That's ends up being a very expensive monthly fee we are paying for virtually only ONE benefit, being a superhero...
There are no microtransactions forced on me here. I haven't spent a dime since I went LTS. And I didn't spend anything in Zen before that either.
WoW is boring, has terrible aesthetics, has a heavy focus on PVP, has a combat system that I don't find enjoyable, is balanced in such a way that a 10 on 1 fight is nearly impossible, rather than commonplace, and soon is going to add microtransactions to a subscription-based game (given the limitations, I consider the "free" option an extended trial, not full free to play). Plus, it's pretty much the definition of "cookie cutter builds".
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best, just that it's the status quo.
I CANNOT "man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW", because it simply isn't true. But that's the great thing about opinions: You can have yours, mine can be the complete opposite, and neither of us is wrong, nor does either have to conform to the other's opinion.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Sure, you can't play a superhero in WoW, but can you really dismiss *everything else* solely based on that?
Yeah, I believe I could, except that I am not dismissing anything. I am sure that WoW is great for some people. I am not inclined to call it bad just because I did not particularly enjoy it. But the OP came to the official forums for a superhero game and referenced a non-superhero game while attempting to portray a subjective element (worth) as somehow objective.
Listen, I've been paying the monthly fee since release and I'm not about to stop either (because apparently I'm masochistic) but even then I can man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW and other games out there. Meager content, absent game support, no end content, rampant unexcusable bugs which are never going to be fixed, microtransactions forced even on gold members and no improvement on the horizon. That's ends up being a very expensive monthly fee we are paying for virtually only ONE benefit, being a superhero...
Ive been involved with CO since beta. I recognize that it has faults. O my god does it have faults. But a game exists for one reason (from the player's perspective) to be fun. CO can be fun (to me) WoW cannot. How does that make CO the POS and WoW not ? For me WoW fails at the single most important aspect of its existence (from a player's perspective). It bats 000.
Ive never been anything other than a gold member here and have yet to have a micro-transaction forced on me.
During my time in WoW fully 50% of my play time was wasted due to server down time. Perhaps not every server suffered this problem and perhaps the matter was fixed after I left. Perhaps it didnt even start until shortly before I started playing. But, ultimately, it had a 50% downtime for me.
After I cancelled my subscription to WoW, confirmation and all, Blizzard kept charging me. When I caught it and called them they were willing to partially refund the amount charged after I quit. They confirmed that the account had not been accessed during the down time and that the subscription had been cancelled as I indicated...partial refund.
During my time in WoW there was zero fun to be had at endgame.
On the other hand its pretty inexpensive to play a superhero in CO.
... is balanced in such a way that a 10 on 1 fight is nearly impossible, rather than commonplace, ...
One of the things I like here. Playing a bit of (another game where you can be a Jedi) I never feel like said character. Its says that I am such just following the basic tutorial and yet at level 50 Im still not feeling it, each fight is balanced to my level so strictly that agro on a second or 3rd group generally means defeat. Here I feel like a super hero and can take on several mobs at once. I can also make a hero that is challenging to face lesser mobs.
I CANNOT "man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW", because it simply isn't true.
Nor can I, and it would seem many other players here feel the same. Funny that most gamers I speak to relate to WoW as an in joke "Go back to playing WoW", "Its not like WoW is it?" WoW gives better games a bad name. imho
WoW doesn't offer customization. When I first started playing CO, what I started playing with was, IMO, a 'badass looking character'. I was pleased that I got to play something that looked cool, and could make changes on the way based on what I'd found or bought.
I'm not going to play a game for 3 months non-stop in the hopes that I'll actually have a matching outfit that doesn't look like it came from a Disney cartoon. When WotLK came out, I had a level 55 character, and I thought the Death Knight was pretty sick looking in the armor you get after the starting instance. And what happens two levels later? Back to looking like a mismatched clown in the Outland or whatever that place is called. I'd spent 55 damned levels before that looking like an idiot, and got to look decent for all of about two hours.
In WoW, I'm not playing a Character- I'm a game token with a different haircut or mustache or something. When I join a guild, It's less like finding fun people and more like applying for a job where everyone is a douchebag. When I play WoW, I have to skip content because I don't have 5 people around to help me. When a friend of mine picks up WoW to play with me, if I'm more than 10 levels over him there's no point in me even going to help him- I have to wait for him to catch up, which sort of isn't 'playing together'.
You know, I do wish CO had development like WoW. I do. But if it came at the cost of the following-
-Being forced to play stupid looking cookie-cutter characters
-Playing with squabbling, screeching children arguing about tanking, healing, and loot
-Getting ganked by opposing faction players 30 levels above me, and having my corpse camped
-Having to pay $15 a month to play the game at all, plus $50 for each expansion plus the game itself
-Working my butt off just so I can get the means to travel at a reasonable speed
-Having to spend in-game money just to maintain my equipment
-Having to spend in-game money to travel
-Kung Fu Pandas
-Looking like a low-rent idiot until endgame
-Having a setting that is more cartoonish and childish that CO already is
-Having absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the story going on and doing asinine fetch-quests
-Being outright griefed and persecuted for trying to RP on the RP SERVER
-Having a 'full server' and being forced to wait 2 hours to play a game I've paid for
-Expansions that charge $50 but only offer 5 levels to advance
-Dropped, disregarded ideas (heroic classes)
-Blatant, out in the open requests for ERP in the starting town
-Being forced to use a name like desflhjlkansf because everything else was taken
-Droves of try-harder elitists whining about the game being easier for newer people.
-'Veterans' that think themselves better because they started in 2004
Superhero is a matter of taste.
There are a lot of cool things about WoW, and Blizzard innovated a lot of stuff that really blew the doors open and lead to the MMO landscape we have today.
They have a lot of stuff that appeals to me -- but more stuff that doesn't.
My big complaints about WoW:
Lack of customization
Seriously. I wanted to play a 'Friar Tuck' human priest. A big jovial fat guy jovially healing people.
Except all the human males look like Popeye with a cleft palate. (No offense against those with cleft palates, but I'd like other options...)
Also the clown armor syndrome menttioned before.
Yes, they've added a reskin option, but from what I understand it's very limited.
Too many abilities to manage.
Maybe I sound like a yutz, but seriously, I don't really enjoy trying to juggle 30 abilities on hotbars scattered all over my screen.
I tried free weekend with WoTLK and my level 60 druid... I couldn't figure out how the hell to do anything. Max level CO character? Returning is a little awkward, but I can play pretty decently.
I like Neverwinter's economy of abilities, though I generally prefer the sweet spot CO achieves (I wish the mechanics and flow of abilities was a little different, though)
Mobility
I haven't tried WoW since everything got flight. Not sure how prevalent flying is now, but I like a LOT of speed and mobility in a game.
Servers
I like Cryptiic's one server thing. I'm spoiled, and all the other games without it annoy me.
Item treadmill
Ok, nearly all mmos do this. I still hate it.
Raids
Raids are a cancer. Early on they were manageable, then they inevitably spread their influence and mestastized.
Blizzard has, admittedly, done some good work trying to include dailies and rep grinds to give non-raiders somethinig to do. But still.
There are probably more, but there you go.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I can tell you right now, that if you tried to market a fantasy MMO as a Superhero game, you'd get laughed at. What you might call a superhero, 99.9999% of anyone else isn't going to call it that.
If you sat me down, and said 'here, this is a superhero game about superheroes and supervillains' and I was in front of another tired old Elves, Chainmail, Sword & Sorcery game- I'd get up and probably relieve myself on your computer.
There are a lot of cool things about WoW, and Blizzard innovated a lot of stuff that really blew the doors open and lead to the MMO landscape we have today.
That's just it- they didn't innovate anything at all. Everything was taken from other games like Everquest. Arguably, WoW was just a facelift.
What they -did- do was change it to a more 'friendly' look, and make it more user-friendly.
Oh, just as a side-note to something mentioned above:
I've played Gold, and I've played Silver. I even maintain a secondary account that's never had a penny of real-world money spent on it, just to prove to myself what can and cannot be done. And I have never had a microtransaction "forced" on me. I've voluntarily purchased stuff on my main account, because I wanted it and had the cash on hand, but (for instance) Bonechill, on my secondary, is every bit as valid a Glacier as Piqsirpoq, on my main; it's just that Bonechill's costume is made up of stuff that's either free or dropped. (He uses a skull for a head, with Irradiate Zombie jacket and pants, and his feet are wrapped in boots that look like bandages. He froze to death in Canada once, but decided not to let a little thing like that stop him, and became an undead superhero instead.)
It's possible, and not in a "well, technically you can do this" way, to play everything this game has to offer and not drop a single dime in the process. (I'd really prefer people not do that too much, because it's got to make money from someplace - but you can do it if you're so inclined, and be handicapped only by the less-than-complete choice of ATs.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It's possible, and not in a "well, technically you can do this" way, to play everything this game has to offer and not drop a single dime in the process. (I'd really prefer people not do that too much, because it's got to make money from someplace - but you can do it if you're so inclined, and be handicapped only by the less-than-complete choice of ATs.)
You don't need money to get ATs.. or FF tho. So :P
I don't spend money, but when I am actually playing the game I'm stupid active... which is what F2P players like me are here for, to provide a nice and active game for the Gold players. We just have to do it with generic colors on our powers, and no bird heads or glow tights. Also that... VIP.. kitchen... basement... thing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I can tell you right now, that if you tried to market a fantasy MMO as a Superhero game, you'd get laughed at. What you might call a superhero, 99.9999% of anyone else isn't going to call it that.
No no no, sorry... I meant the value of 'it's superheroes' or 'it's not superheroes' is a taste issue. That's all.
There's nothing 'objective' about "Champions Online is a terrible game, worse than WoW because I don't like Detroit."
I mean, fine, for YOU CO fails because it (sorta) has Detroit in it. And that's perfectly fine.
But 'I don't like X genre' or 'I really prefer Y genre' is a qualitatively different than 'this game has terrible support/has massive bugs.'
That's just it- they didn't innovate anything at all. Everything was taken from other games like Everquest. Arguably, WoW was just a facelift.
What they -did- do was change it to a more 'friendly' look, and make it more user-friendly.
Consider the sweeping range of ways in which they made the game more friendly and changed the presentation, from UI to deep game design:
Rest xp, quest hubs, clear quests, quest journals, questlines, more clear quest progression, craft progression, instancing, softened death and loss penalties.
Individually, yeah, many bits and pieces had been done in different games, but the entire searing vision of it...
I maintain that this kind of coherent, across-the-board strategizing and design counts as innovation.
Previous games, like EQ, were much more hodge-podge, with game design tacked on because it seemed like a good idea at the time and a lack of (it seems to me) greater understanding or concern with what game experience would be.
I think seeing a wild array of ideas and experiments, culling them and sifting through, assembling and refining them into one new game can be very innovative, and that WoW counted.
Not so much NOW, although Blizzard has shown a remarkable willingness to tear out vast chunks of their own work when they believe they can do something better. That takes real brass ones.
Feel free to disagree, of course.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
By the way, I somewhat bristle at the notion of 'it's just a shallow change/facelift,' because I transitioned from EQ to WoW when I had just about given up on MMOs as massively frustrating stupid games designed for people who'd stay online almost constantly (which was very amusing later, when WoW first introduced a pvp reward system that required playing almost constantly or you lose your stuff)
Yeah, maybe on paper WoW doesn't seem like it changed much, but the difference in terms of actual play was MASSIVE. And it's not just EQ I'm talking about, I played a bunch of different early games (AC, EQ, Horizon, Saga of Ryzom...)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
I have yet to see this game give me any tp...but then again I have yet to see somebody in the game actually need tp...(Major Smart Ash strikes again)
And you don't get a mount in this game without buying it either...Tanks and Motorcycles and Jets and Chairiots and flying submarines oh my...
You know, a friend and I had this conversation a while back.
The reason there's not a whole lot of 'new and different'...? Well, prime example- the Xbox One. Backlash. Why? Because, well- gamers find a way they like to do things, like MMO's, and they kinda want something 'different but similar'.
We don't always want to eat a burger. But when we do go out to eat, we want to sit at a table with a chair and not have someone feed us gravy through a fire hose because it's 'different' and 'unique'. The same thing keeps happening over and over, because people want something familiar.
The mount system? Well- you can do this two ways-
So far, I haven't needed on. The 'autowalk' thing is awesome. Click your point on the map, and you walk there without having to hold down buttons and navigate manually. Secondly, you can convert the in-game currency for the 'Zen' equivalent on Allods. So you could grind for it.
If you don't like it, don't pay.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
It's Free 2 play... if you don't think a small fee of $15 is worth it then don't pay it. I hope you don't think they should just give you the whole game for free. However I do think they should give silvers at least 1 freeform with limitations to use.
The Lemurian Tank was free (if the RNG liked you).
And I've got three vehicles without spending anything but resources, none of them the aforementioned tank.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Granted I didn't read the other comments and have no idea what was said already. Not that it would have mattered because I am going to say what I say anyways so don't take it the wrong way but... I understand.
Me personally $15 is throw away money. I spend more than $15 on a meal that is sometimes not very filling, but that is me and wouldn't tell someone to do the same.
Although I suspect that most devs, and other game staff get paid about the same range of pay and even though WoW is raking in millions a day, and this game may make, what, about a million or so a quarter, just a blind guess and nothing more, the devs and staff still get paid. Less money a game make less money available for the game itself. The top dogs definitely will get their cut no matter what, cost of running bill, then the staff and devs, and what ever is left over might go into the game improvement budget or rolled over into something they feel make money per dollar invested or a mixture of the two.
But the real money these days or rather the FoTM for games is F2P and micro-transactions. I have a gut feeling, or maybe it's just the barbacoa tacos, that they may prefer a player to buy stuff even if they pay a subscription. Where all that money goes in this games, heavens know where.
I have a feeling some people probably stated the usual "don't like it don't pay" thing which isn't invalid but I figure that already crossed your mind anyways. It's in my mind that a person that pays $15 a month gets their money worth. And worth is something that varies from person to person. Some people don't think WoW is worth paying $15 a month or else they would be there, everyone would be there paying month to month.
Also the main thing is probably the usual that they charge what they can get away with within their particular field. If every game started to charge $25 a month, I suspect that they would also start to charge $25 a month updates or not. But the main thing is that the price is set, and sometimes people don't feel $15 is worth it. Now, you can technically play this game without spending a single dime, but the flip side of that is that is less money and less chance of updates. I personally wont knock ya for that. While even more though if you continue to pay $15 a month but don't feel it' worth it, then while you help financing it, the question will eventually come up is it worth continuing to do so? That is a question that only an individual person can answer for themselves and seems you answered it. And I understand you answer to that question. It's your money that you probably worked your butt off to get and should always choose to spend it on stuff that is worth it.
I've found a good thing to do is to play champs for the thing it does different (costume editor, freeform)...then five minutes later when you get bored of batting around barely-conscious bags of hit points, go play something like TERA for combat that's actually engaging. Sure, they don't have a costume editor, and they have a class based system, but at some point it actually comes time to leave character creation and actually play the game... that's where TERA sprints ahead of CO.
When I play TERA, I don't need stories or quests or any of that other stuff. I just log in and start fighting stuff, because that's that games strong point: The gameplay.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm only two days into the game, and I already spend more time in Champs. I didn't find anything terribly exciting about TERA's combat. It's basically Neverwinter, so far (well, close - my giant sword actually hits like a giant sword should in TERA). I honestly still like Champs combat better than any other MMO I've tried.
I'd argue that the action-paced combat gameplay of CO can be considered one of its strong points.
(somewhat old screenshot, as that mystic has long been 60, but gives you an idea of size comparison of the early level BAMS.)
Just wait till you get to BAM's and Dungeons. Outside of combat and aesthetics though....it's not much you havent seen.
I won't even try out a game without a character editor these days.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Monster Hunter is 1000% more awesome than Tera. Dont insult MH by comparing it to that drivel.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Lack of story
'Hi, we're doing mumble!'
Why is my character here? Why do I care? This feels like about half of other fantasy MMOs and nothing about it strikes me as interesting.
One of the first NPCs I talk to has breasts that look like they are trying to wriggle free out of her dress. Literally. She's just standing there, and her boobs are writhing and moving like some alien is about to burst out.
Jiggle physics gone stupid.
The two factors, plus lack of anything that really grabbed me, and I was done.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
And I dunno....MH kinda sucks. Think I'd rather play Adventures in Bland-Land( Dragon's Dogma) than that.
Yeah. And that NPC is EVERYWHERE. Like, same face same dress same sentient wriggly boobs, same animations. EVERYWHERE. I swear I've talked to like 13 different versions of her already and I'm only like level 16.
And yeah there is an editor, but only for your character's face and head. No height adjust or muscle bulk or anything. And for the faces you gotta work off of templates. For example, only 2 of the 8 human head templates can have a beard. Well, one, really. I don't count wispy "got no testosterone" anime "beards" as beards.
Haha, funny.
Anyways, enough gushing about TERA; got my 7 month fill of it. If you are on Tempest Reach, biff, and feel like teaming or something, hit me up at Riclen/ Abbas/ Yulae. Though I don't have anyone below 30 and I'm not sure who I can use while being a non-subscriber...but I can get you into a pretty social/casual guild, so you can bypass all the iLevel and queue drama.
The action in CO seems action packed until you actually start to think about what's actually going on. The majority of content is simply you selecting a target, and activating a power until that target's HP meter is empty, while making sure your HP meter does not empty. You can sort of fool yourself into thinking there's more to it than that by using powers that require you to watch buff and debuff timers and things like that, but the fact that you don't have to do that means that you are artificially injecting more action, rather than that action being inherent to the gameplay.
The best example is travel powers; we have these awesome travel powers that could make combat this amazing fast-paced action-packed ride... but none of the content ever requires that you have a travel power active for any reason. The exception is Gravitar; for all the hate she's recieved, she's the best content this game has, because she's the only content that actually has an inherent action-based quality to her gameplay. Everything else is really just stand-n-spam, unless you're willing to pretend.
The only thing that makes this any different is Knocks, which is why people who use knocks a lot see a lot more action, because it literally looks more actiony. Again though, once you start thinking about what's going on (and after a few years I just can't help it), you realize how little action is actually taking place.
It's an example of all style and no substance. Hey don't get me wrong, that's not the worst thing ever, but after a while that super model you're in a relationship with? You might actually want to have a conversation with them... and when you realize at some point that the only thing they can ever talk to you about is their cat... yeah.
Yeah don't go to a pvp server. That's generally a bad idea in any mmo :P Try another server without pvp, you'll have a lot more fun since you can actually play without being interrupted by bungholes. The social aspect is there; they also have zone chats filled with people talking about random nonsense, just like CO. Gets better if you join a guild, since guilds actually kinda have a point over there. I don't blame you if that's not your thing though... I'm not big on guilds either.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Everything here.
No, I like PVP servers. Switching to a PVE server will ruin the experience for me even more.
All that you said though about all style and no substance has left me wondering, what exactly is the substance in Tera? The combat seems no different to me so far than your standard MMO.
Gotta warn ya though....endgame gear grind is horrendous. RNG will make you its female dog.
I play Tera for the PLOT. Delicious Castanic plot.
I doubt I'll last that long in that game anyway.
In this context we were talking combat mechanics.
Me too. How do their outfits stay in place during a fight? At all?
Science demands an answer.
Of course, NWO was worse. I facepalmed when I saw my projectiles were homing and autohit.
As far as games with that kind of system go, I'd rather play the instanced games like C9/Phantasy Star Online 2/Dragon Nest/Vindictus that play smoother and have a proper hitstun and combo system on top of the skill-based aiming.
CABAL also branded itself as a action mmo...but was still locked behind the usual Korean grind crapfest. They're are steps in the right direction, but I doubt we'll see something as fluid as DMC 4 anytime soon.
After seeing so many outfits like that on this blog, I've come to the conclusion that they stay up by sheer force of will from protective mothers everywhere... That or they're wearing fancy duct tape. I have half a mind to tear it off just to see what'd happen besides bubbies being exposed.
The substance comes from the fact that what you do matters. Your ability to react matters. Your choices matter. You don't have to pretend that you have to use your abilities, and you don't have to pretend that you have to move.. because you actually have to do those things. There's something to learn when fighting certain enemies, it's not just a bunch of recolored bags of hit points; different monsters have different attack styles, and quite often the key to beating those monsters is learning their attacks and how to maintain an offense while defending yourself.
In CO, every enemy is the same, and you could deal with all the content in the game while using only 2 active abilities, and moving only when it's time to hoof it over to the next bag of hit points. But it looks really cool, and you can jump around and use different abilities if you want to pretend it makes a difference.
The combat in TERA is not like combat in a standard MMO. However, the standard is, thankfully, changing to become what TERA's combat is, since people seem to be getting tired of the old "tab target" routine that CO is still a part of.
Actually, the endgame gear grind isn't bad at all, in fact it's one of the things that I like about the game because in a lot of ways it's similar to what you have in CO. At first glance you might think "oh gawd, I have to grind all these dungeons over and over and then grind enchanting mats to get everything +12 and then do it all over again for the next tier oh god!"
That's not true though. The truth is, all you have to do is run Nexus for about a week and a half. Get all your Nexus gear, enchant it to +9. Congratulations, you now have the gear level needed to complete any content in the game, if you've got skill. The lower the player's skill, the better gear they'll need to compensate.
So really, how grindy the gear grind is is inversly proportional to your skill level as a player.
They're sticky. Not the outfits... the people. Use your imagination to figure out why they're sticky all the time... it has to do with the outfits they're wearing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
for fashion items, it's double sided tape. in some case, hairspray, makes it stick.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
just swap the game names and read this, doesn't it sound familiar
http://my.mmosite.com/3502136/blog/item/top_5_things_i_dislike_about_tera.html
hmm, while trying to download tera online, norton securitygets set off,
launcher.exe, contains, suspicious.cloud.5
tera is now not downloading and removed
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Because Nortons is reliable.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Though I'm not surprised "YOU KNEED MAI HALP?" guy made the list http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztGk7tggzaI , I'd switch it with 3 myself. Stuff like that brings back Lineage memories....the bad kind of memories, mind you.
Sure, you can't play a superhero in WoW, but can you really dismiss *everything else* solely based on that? Listen, I've been paying the monthly fee since release and I'm not about to stop either (because apparently I'm masochistic) but even then I can man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW and other games out there. Meager content, absent game support, no end content, rampant unexcusable bugs which are never going to be fixed, microtransactions forced even on gold members and no improvement on the horizon. That's ends up being a very expensive monthly fee we are paying for virtually only ONE benefit, being a superhero...
WoW is boring, has terrible aesthetics, has a heavy focus on PVP, has a combat system that I don't find enjoyable, is balanced in such a way that a 10 on 1 fight is nearly impossible, rather than commonplace, and soon is going to add microtransactions to a subscription-based game (given the limitations, I consider the "free" option an extended trial, not full free to play). Plus, it's pretty much the definition of "cookie cutter builds".
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best, just that it's the status quo.
I CANNOT "man up and admit that CO is a POS product compared to WoW", because it simply isn't true. But that's the great thing about opinions: You can have yours, mine can be the complete opposite, and neither of us is wrong, nor does either have to conform to the other's opinion.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Yeah, I believe I could, except that I am not dismissing anything. I am sure that WoW is great for some people. I am not inclined to call it bad just because I did not particularly enjoy it. But the OP came to the official forums for a superhero game and referenced a non-superhero game while attempting to portray a subjective element (worth) as somehow objective.
Ive been involved with CO since beta. I recognize that it has faults. O my god does it have faults. But a game exists for one reason (from the player's perspective) to be fun. CO can be fun (to me) WoW cannot. How does that make CO the POS and WoW not ? For me WoW fails at the single most important aspect of its existence (from a player's perspective). It bats 000.
Ive never been anything other than a gold member here and have yet to have a micro-transaction forced on me.
During my time in WoW fully 50% of my play time was wasted due to server down time. Perhaps not every server suffered this problem and perhaps the matter was fixed after I left. Perhaps it didnt even start until shortly before I started playing. But, ultimately, it had a 50% downtime for me.
After I cancelled my subscription to WoW, confirmation and all, Blizzard kept charging me. When I caught it and called them they were willing to partially refund the amount charged after I quit. They confirmed that the account had not been accessed during the down time and that the subscription had been cancelled as I indicated...partial refund.
During my time in WoW there was zero fun to be had at endgame.
On the other hand its pretty inexpensive to play a superhero in CO.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
One of the things I like here. Playing a bit of (another game where you can be a Jedi) I never feel like said character. Its says that I am such just following the basic tutorial and yet at level 50 Im still not feeling it, each fight is balanced to my level so strictly that agro on a second or 3rd group generally means defeat. Here I feel like a super hero and can take on several mobs at once. I can also make a hero that is challenging to face lesser mobs.
pretty much just means a company is good at brainwashing people.
Nor can I, and it would seem many other players here feel the same. Funny that most gamers I speak to relate to WoW as an in joke "Go back to playing WoW", "Its not like WoW is it?" WoW gives better games a bad name. imho
I'm not going to play a game for 3 months non-stop in the hopes that I'll actually have a matching outfit that doesn't look like it came from a Disney cartoon. When WotLK came out, I had a level 55 character, and I thought the Death Knight was pretty sick looking in the armor you get after the starting instance. And what happens two levels later? Back to looking like a mismatched clown in the Outland or whatever that place is called. I'd spent 55 damned levels before that looking like an idiot, and got to look decent for all of about two hours.
In WoW, I'm not playing a Character- I'm a game token with a different haircut or mustache or something. When I join a guild, It's less like finding fun people and more like applying for a job where everyone is a douchebag. When I play WoW, I have to skip content because I don't have 5 people around to help me. When a friend of mine picks up WoW to play with me, if I'm more than 10 levels over him there's no point in me even going to help him- I have to wait for him to catch up, which sort of isn't 'playing together'.
You know, I do wish CO had development like WoW. I do. But if it came at the cost of the following-
-Being forced to play stupid looking cookie-cutter characters
-Playing with squabbling, screeching children arguing about tanking, healing, and loot
-Getting ganked by opposing faction players 30 levels above me, and having my corpse camped
-Having to pay $15 a month to play the game at all, plus $50 for each expansion plus the game itself
-Working my butt off just so I can get the means to travel at a reasonable speed
-Having to spend in-game money just to maintain my equipment
-Having to spend in-game money to travel
-Kung Fu Pandas
-Looking like a low-rent idiot until endgame
-Having a setting that is more cartoonish and childish that CO already is
-Having absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the story going on and doing asinine fetch-quests
-Being outright griefed and persecuted for trying to RP on the RP SERVER
-Having a 'full server' and being forced to wait 2 hours to play a game I've paid for
-Expansions that charge $50 but only offer 5 levels to advance
-Dropped, disregarded ideas (heroic classes)
-Blatant, out in the open requests for ERP in the starting town
-Being forced to use a name like desflhjlkansf because everything else was taken
-Droves of try-harder elitists whining about the game being easier for newer people.
-'Veterans' that think themselves better because they started in 2004
I'll take CO as is.
There are a lot of cool things about WoW, and Blizzard innovated a lot of stuff that really blew the doors open and lead to the MMO landscape we have today.
They have a lot of stuff that appeals to me -- but more stuff that doesn't.
My big complaints about WoW:
Lack of customization
Seriously. I wanted to play a 'Friar Tuck' human priest. A big jovial fat guy jovially healing people.
Except all the human males look like Popeye with a cleft palate. (No offense against those with cleft palates, but I'd like other options...)
Also the clown armor syndrome menttioned before.
Yes, they've added a reskin option, but from what I understand it's very limited.
Too many abilities to manage.
Maybe I sound like a yutz, but seriously, I don't really enjoy trying to juggle 30 abilities on hotbars scattered all over my screen.
I tried free weekend with WoTLK and my level 60 druid... I couldn't figure out how the hell to do anything. Max level CO character? Returning is a little awkward, but I can play pretty decently.
I like Neverwinter's economy of abilities, though I generally prefer the sweet spot CO achieves (I wish the mechanics and flow of abilities was a little different, though)
Mobility
I haven't tried WoW since everything got flight. Not sure how prevalent flying is now, but I like a LOT of speed and mobility in a game.
Servers
I like Cryptiic's one server thing. I'm spoiled, and all the other games without it annoy me.
Item treadmill
Ok, nearly all mmos do this. I still hate it.
Raids
Raids are a cancer. Early on they were manageable, then they inevitably spread their influence and mestastized.
Blizzard has, admittedly, done some good work trying to include dailies and rep grinds to give non-raiders somethinig to do. But still.
There are probably more, but there you go.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I can tell you right now, that if you tried to market a fantasy MMO as a Superhero game, you'd get laughed at. What you might call a superhero, 99.9999% of anyone else isn't going to call it that.
If you sat me down, and said 'here, this is a superhero game about superheroes and supervillains' and I was in front of another tired old Elves, Chainmail, Sword & Sorcery game- I'd get up and probably relieve myself on your computer.
(Not YOU specifically, but anyone who did)
That's just it- they didn't innovate anything at all. Everything was taken from other games like Everquest. Arguably, WoW was just a facelift.
What they -did- do was change it to a more 'friendly' look, and make it more user-friendly.
I've played Gold, and I've played Silver. I even maintain a secondary account that's never had a penny of real-world money spent on it, just to prove to myself what can and cannot be done. And I have never had a microtransaction "forced" on me. I've voluntarily purchased stuff on my main account, because I wanted it and had the cash on hand, but (for instance) Bonechill, on my secondary, is every bit as valid a Glacier as Piqsirpoq, on my main; it's just that Bonechill's costume is made up of stuff that's either free or dropped. (He uses a skull for a head, with Irradiate Zombie jacket and pants, and his feet are wrapped in boots that look like bandages. He froze to death in Canada once, but decided not to let a little thing like that stop him, and became an undead superhero instead.)
It's possible, and not in a "well, technically you can do this" way, to play everything this game has to offer and not drop a single dime in the process. (I'd really prefer people not do that too much, because it's got to make money from someplace
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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You don't need money to get ATs.. or FF tho. So :P
I don't spend money, but when I am actually playing the game I'm stupid active... which is what F2P players like me are here for, to provide a nice and active game for the Gold players. We just have to do it with generic colors on our powers, and no bird heads or glow tights. Also that... VIP.. kitchen... basement... thing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
No no no, sorry... I meant the value of 'it's superheroes' or 'it's not superheroes' is a taste issue. That's all.
There's nothing 'objective' about "Champions Online is a terrible game, worse than WoW because I don't like Detroit."
I mean, fine, for YOU CO fails because it (sorta) has Detroit in it. And that's perfectly fine.
But 'I don't like X genre' or 'I really prefer Y genre' is a qualitatively different than 'this game has terrible support/has massive bugs.'
Consider the sweeping range of ways in which they made the game more friendly and changed the presentation, from UI to deep game design:
Rest xp, quest hubs, clear quests, quest journals, questlines, more clear quest progression, craft progression, instancing, softened death and loss penalties.
Individually, yeah, many bits and pieces had been done in different games, but the entire searing vision of it...
I maintain that this kind of coherent, across-the-board strategizing and design counts as innovation.
Previous games, like EQ, were much more hodge-podge, with game design tacked on because it seemed like a good idea at the time and a lack of (it seems to me) greater understanding or concern with what game experience would be.
I think seeing a wild array of ideas and experiments, culling them and sifting through, assembling and refining them into one new game can be very innovative, and that WoW counted.
Not so much NOW, although Blizzard has shown a remarkable willingness to tear out vast chunks of their own work when they believe they can do something better. That takes real brass ones.
Feel free to disagree, of course.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Yeah, maybe on paper WoW doesn't seem like it changed much, but the difference in terms of actual play was MASSIVE. And it's not just EQ I'm talking about, I played a bunch of different early games (AC, EQ, Horizon, Saga of Ryzom...)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?