I just showed you that there are more than 320 possible build combinations that do work in pvp.
Oh nevermind,you just reminded me who you are, a guy that can't stand losing in pvp in-game,so he just begins playin' smart in the forums.Seen millions of your kind.
Banning certain powers feels as arbitrary as selecting them to begin with. Seems like you'd get a frankenbuild either way.
I don't PvP much, but I do favor a lot of the abilities on the banned list regardless. My characters are always based around a concept though, and most have full bios.
How about this? Let's come up with a unique concept, then come up with a build that avoids the most egregious PvP picks, yet we still try to make as effective as possible.
I'll throw out a concept I've been considering for a magic-themed character:
The spirit of an Old West gunfighter who killed a whole bunch back in his day, returned to earth in ghostly form to atone for his sins. He's noncorporeal, so he can't use his trusty guns or other physical means to fight, which he finds frustrating.
Build him!
__________________________________________________
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I just showed you that there are more than 320 possible build combinations that do work in pvp.
Oh nevermind,you just reminded me who you are, a guy that can't stand losing in pvp in-game,so he just begins playin' smart in the forums.Seen millions of your kind.
Each one of those combinations requiring a core group of powers to support their ability to compete. Face it Sterg, no matter how hard you try that's always going to be the reality. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to prove otherwise, seeing as the use of that core group of powers is something you personally agree with.
But please, if at any point you would like to make a video where you prove me wrong. Like you say, we're just people playing smart on the forums, so how about you make the first move towards actual proof? I can point to pretty much any pvp video on the forums for my end of the conversation.
I'm not sure what you think me winning or losing has to do with this either. Again, I'm going to assume it's an attempt at an insult, or maybe an ego jab. Honestly, I couldn't care less if I personally win or lose; after all, even if I win every match I join, it won't make these facts any less true (unless I win using a non-standard build, but we all know that's impossible ). Are you really under the impression that if I won constantly that I would somehow lose the ability to see the mechanical truths inherent to the games design? I think it would actually be the opposite, since it seems that those around here who do win a lot are not only aware of those truths, but take advantage of them on a daily basis.
I don't PvP much, but I do favor a lot of the abilities on the banned list regardless. My characters are always based around a concept though, and most have full bios.
How about this? Let's come up with a unique concept, then come up with a build that avoids the most egregious PvP picks, yet we still try to make as effective as possible.
I'll throw out a concept I've been considering for a magic-themed character:
The spirit of an Old West gunfighter who killed a whole bunch back in his day, returned to earth in ghostly form to atone for his sins. He's noncorporeal, so he can't use his trusty guns or other physical means to fight, which he finds frustrating.
Build him!
I'm not really comfortable adding theme to this challenge. Theme and build are ultimately two seperate elements, and there's really nothing stopping anyone from using any given power and explaining why its visual effects are appropriatte for the build, especially with the powers that have very generic effects. It's even easier in the case of abilities that have no visible effects whatsoever.
Theme and concept aren't really relevant, this is purely mechanical. However, if you want to start a "Build this theme without using these powers" challenge, I'm sure you'll have just as many enthusiastic volunteers as this challenge has.
After all, not like anyone else is using this section of the forums for anything, plenty of space!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
That's the part of this challenge that doesn't resonate with me. If theme is out the window, I'd just pick the most effective powers. You're just asking me to pick the second-most effective powers instead. By building to a theme, I'd have a reason to try something unconventional.
Diff'rent strokes and all that. Continue with your challenge!
__________________________________________________
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
That's the part of this challenge that doesn't resonate with me. If theme is out the window, I'd just pick the most effective powers. You're just asking me to pick the second-most effective powers instead. By building to a theme, I'd have a reason to try something unconventional.
Diff'rent strokes and all that. Continue with your challenge!
That's the part of this challenge that doesn't resonate with me. If theme is out the window, I'd just pick the most effective powers. You're just asking me to pick the second-most effective powers instead. By building to a theme, I'd have a reason to try something unconventional.
Diff'rent strokes and all that. Continue with your challenge!
See the list of powers not allowed for use on page 4 of this thread. Take a handful of them in any useful combination and add an extra ability or two for taste.
I can't speak to every power set, but I don't need to gut Might to be competitive. I do reach outside it to round out my abilities in both PvP and PvE though. That's the beauty of the Freeform system.
I guess I just don't understand the point being made here. Or if there is one.
__________________________________________________
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I can't speak to every power set, but I don't need to gut Might to be competitive. I do reach outside it to round out my abilities in both PvP and PvE though. That's the beauty of the Freeform system.
Aaaah, Might. Well welcome to the club. I'm a Might too. But in order to take on the highest caliber PvP builds I needed to push hardcore into STR (primary) and CON, followed with AoPM (boosting INT to 160ish+MSA) to make up for the massive energy it requires to pull off the Bolas > Roomsweeper-Haymaker combos regularly, and even there I need to add a sprinkle of Unleashed Rage attached in the middle of the combo so it increases my chances to defeat these people during the very rare times I manage to catch them unaffected by an active defense, knock them up and have at least two of the three attacks undodged and critted.
I would like to do that with Unstoppable or Defiance, but I wouldn't have the energy execute my combos, and the loss of AoPM would dramatically reduce my ability to heal and out-sustain Ebon Ruin (And recovering fast from Strafing Run) aswell as losing crit chance. For me, it felt like I've slaughtered my character.
Now, the point is... 80% of other mechanics are left to die. It would be fine it it was only about the usual cocktail having a slight advantage but... Have you tried the next best thing? It's barely 1/4 of the efficiency of the usual defensive scheme. Let's say that I want to be effective in BASH with an EGO CON REC ID Mastery TK Blader with synergies based on Ego Reverberation, the question is, in how many pieces will I end up if I'm actually not disintegrated? And in WHAT is it wrong to try to be efficient with this?
The gap between what's best and the rest is just far too big and the highest caliber builds we get to see shouldn't even exist.
heh... Apparently no one except Neiuso [ohai ] knows how to dominate without the typical PvP build. Smoochy, ask Aeodi if she likes the Blade archetype. ^_~
Aaaah, Might. Well welcome to the club. I'm a Might too. But in order to take on the highest caliber PvP builds I needed to push hardcore into STR (primary) and CON, followed with AoPM (boosting INT to 160ish+MSA)
haha... Seriously? Wow. Mate, get a clue. :P I used to destroy everyone with Quarry and END statted. Don't be silly. :P
It's like asking the community to build an effective tank without defensive passives, active defenses, block enhancers or stacking CON or dodge/avoid.
Some powers are more effective in certain situations than others. PvP is just one of those situations. Should all powers truly be equal in PvP?
Yes, of course they should. Character customization is the only strong point that Champions Online has. Once you remove character customization, there's nothing left other than the joy of running and jumping around with acrobatics.
I can't speak to every power set, but I don't need to gut Might to be competitive. I do reach outside it to round out my abilities in both PvP and PvE though. That's the beauty of the Freeform system.
I guess I just don't understand the point being made here. Or if there is one.
Strange.. the point was right there in the first post. This has nothing to do with "staying inside a power set" or "sticking to a theme". The first post doesn't even mention those things as being part of the challenge.
I'll reiterate the point for you, since it doesn't take long to type: Make a build that doesn't use the standard pvp powers, go into a hero game, ask people to attack you so you can prove your build is competetive, record it, and post it.
heh... Apparently no one except Neiuso [ohai ] knows how to dominate without the typical PvP build. Smoochy, ask Aeodi if she likes the Blade archetype. ^_~
hey, Penny. luv ya ^^
haha... Seriously? Wow. Mate, get a clue. :P I used to destroy everyone with Quarry and END statted. Don't be silly. :P
Quit being so logical. Naughty mynx.
Sadly, none of that is recorded. But please, take that build that you used to dominate with, or get your blade friend, make some videos, and prove me wrong. So far, all the videos that have been made around here seem to have been made for the express purpose of proving what you just said wrong. Ironically, these videos were quite possibly made by people you consider friends.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Sadly, none of that is recorded. But please, take that build that you used to dominate with, or get your blade friend, make some videos, and prove me wrong. So far, all the videos that have been made around here seem to have been made for the express purpose of proving what you just said wrong. Ironically, these videos were quite possibly made by people you consider friends.
Smoochy, while you were sleeping, I was busy making "top-tier PvP" super-competitive egotists run like newbies from melee builds. I got tired of literally chasing elites. Nothing personal, but you are misinformed, inexperienced, unskilled, illogical, and apparently absent. Spending 23 minutes in the ren cen buzzing about people's heads and reading the forums won't help you do anything but fall blind in a ditch. I hope my enemies learned their lesson... i.e., don't underestimate people. Have fun making movies.
Hey, smoochy, want a challenge? Go make your own "PvP build" without listening to foolish mortals, without using nooby weapons, then PvE all over "elite PvP" veteranoobz' gravekipz in BASH and sit in a lonely, 5-hour BASH queue. ^_^ *hands smoochy a CD player for the long waiting times*
Strange.. the point was right there in the first post. This has nothing to do with "staying inside a power set" or "sticking to a theme". The first post doesn't even mention those things as being part of the challenge.
I'll reiterate the point for you, since it doesn't take long to type: Make a build that doesn't use the standard pvp powers, go into a hero game, ask people to attack you so you can prove your build is competetive, record it, and post it.
I get WHAT you're asking people to do, what I don't understand is WHY. I did see in a response to someone else above you stated your point is simply to call out people who claim you don't need the powers you listed to be effective in PvP. So...Okay then.
__________________________________________________
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I get WHAT you're asking people to do, what I don't understand is WHY. I did see in a response to someone else above you stated your point is simply to call out people who claim you don't need the powers you listed to be effective in PvP. So...Okay then.
Yes, that is the point. A lot of people don't get that. People who openly say "You must use these powers to compete" and then use those powers, really have nothing to disagree with in this thread; the premise here fully agrees with what those people do and why they do it. If they're butthurt because someone thinks their builds aren't unique or original, then they just need to realize that if half or more of their build is just like everyone else's, then originality was never a goal in their build to begin with, so why are they so upset that someone is pointing out that they didn't achieve a goal they obviously never set out to achieve.
or is it something like "Today I'm drinking Heiniken instead of Budweiser, and I'm patting myself on the back for my originality... and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Be the change you wish to see in the (game) world.
As soon as Cryptic hires me. The change I want to see can't be done by players; they're not cashing a pay-check, so they're not obligated to do it either.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I think at this point, anyone who's killing, is doing it for the sake of killing. Unless they've deluded themselves into thinking there are any rewards to get through it... someone would have to be pretty nutty to think otherwise, ya know?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
See, this is why I said people are clueless, and the ones who aren't are trying to hide it. It's quite possible to kick a l33t without "standard" nooby powers, and with enough practice it's quite easy. I'm sorry I didn't upload my memories to YouTube as evidence. I insist that it's possible and I still get discredited by jealous haters. :P Prove it by doing it! It's sad that such people as the aforementioned were once considered "great" by the community.
Squishy noobz need not apply. To win like a fighter you need to think like one. This isn't an RTS. Change your mindset. A child with a gun is still a child.
Squishy noobz need not apply. To win like a fighter you need to think like one. This isn't an RTS. Change your mindset. A child with a gun is still a child.
Oh Lucy, how's that leg of yours? Last time in BASH yo got a nice 0-4 no?
Ask penny and neiuso, my vidio of excellent quality is coming!
The build was very good for the limitations you were under, it was just lacking in the DPS department (which was to be expected). Smoochy probably won't like a couple of the powers you took, but they fit the build well anyway.
Funny to say you performed better than most "copybuilders" that I normally fight.
The build was very good for the limitations you were under, it was just lacking in the DPS department (which was to be expected). Smoochy probably won't like a couple of the powers you took, but they fit the build well anyway.
Funny to say you performed better than most "copybuilders" that I normally fight.
If there is no Ebon Ruin most of the damage is sustainable even by our standards.
This is true. I hate the fact that someone can nearly double the effectiveness of their build by slapping on a single power.
I totally agree.That doesn't mean ebon ruin has to get nerfed. Heals and dodge should be the ones to get a nerf.
Most PvP builds are almost unbeatable if you don't take ER or Pestilence. Unless you are a super squishy dps that is.
Cool build, I look forward to the video where you use it in bash. Remember to request to be farmed
To be honest though, I'm not really hopeful. One person had you constantly on the defensive, once you get into BASH you're gonna drop like a stump rolling up a hill.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Comments
Oh nevermind,you just reminded me who you are, a guy that can't stand losing in pvp in-game,so he just begins playin' smart in the forums.Seen millions of your kind.
I don't PvP much, but I do favor a lot of the abilities on the banned list regardless. My characters are always based around a concept though, and most have full bios.
How about this? Let's come up with a unique concept, then come up with a build that avoids the most egregious PvP picks, yet we still try to make as effective as possible.
I'll throw out a concept I've been considering for a magic-themed character:
The spirit of an Old West gunfighter who killed a whole bunch back in his day, returned to earth in ghostly form to atone for his sins. He's noncorporeal, so he can't use his trusty guns or other physical means to fight, which he finds frustrating.
Build him!
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Each one of those combinations requiring a core group of powers to support their ability to compete. Face it Sterg, no matter how hard you try that's always going to be the reality. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to prove otherwise, seeing as the use of that core group of powers is something you personally agree with.
But please, if at any point you would like to make a video where you prove me wrong. Like you say, we're just people playing smart on the forums, so how about you make the first move towards actual proof? I can point to pretty much any pvp video on the forums for my end of the conversation.
I'm not sure what you think me winning or losing has to do with this either. Again, I'm going to assume it's an attempt at an insult, or maybe an ego jab. Honestly, I couldn't care less if I personally win or lose; after all, even if I win every match I join, it won't make these facts any less true (unless I win using a non-standard build, but we all know that's impossible ). Are you really under the impression that if I won constantly that I would somehow lose the ability to see the mechanical truths inherent to the games design? I think it would actually be the opposite, since it seems that those around here who do win a lot are not only aware of those truths, but take advantage of them on a daily basis.
If you believe this to be true, I'd love to see it in video form
I'm not really comfortable adding theme to this challenge. Theme and build are ultimately two seperate elements, and there's really nothing stopping anyone from using any given power and explaining why its visual effects are appropriatte for the build, especially with the powers that have very generic effects. It's even easier in the case of abilities that have no visible effects whatsoever.
Theme and concept aren't really relevant, this is purely mechanical. However, if you want to start a "Build this theme without using these powers" challenge, I'm sure you'll have just as many enthusiastic volunteers as this challenge has.
After all, not like anyone else is using this section of the forums for anything, plenty of space!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Diff'rent strokes and all that. Continue with your challenge!
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Just this.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm asking you to do, with full confidence that anyone who actually tries will fail.
Are we all finally on board with the point of the challenge which was illustrated in post #1? Sterg, you finally get it?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Certain abilities are better for pvp than others.
PVP builds are vastly superior in pvp VS non pvp builds. Amazing. :biggrin:
What do you consider a PvP build?
Am I wrong?
Some powers are more effective in certain situations than others. PvP is just one of those situations. Should all powers truly be equal in PvP?
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Should you really be forced to literally slaughter your character's powerset in order to compete?
I can't speak to every power set, but I don't need to gut Might to be competitive. I do reach outside it to round out my abilities in both PvP and PvE though. That's the beauty of the Freeform system.
I guess I just don't understand the point being made here. Or if there is one.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Aaaah, Might. Well welcome to the club. I'm a Might too. But in order to take on the highest caliber PvP builds I needed to push hardcore into STR (primary) and CON, followed with AoPM (boosting INT to 160ish+MSA) to make up for the massive energy it requires to pull off the Bolas > Roomsweeper-Haymaker combos regularly, and even there I need to add a sprinkle of Unleashed Rage attached in the middle of the combo so it increases my chances to defeat these people during the very rare times I manage to catch them unaffected by an active defense, knock them up and have at least two of the three attacks undodged and critted.
I would like to do that with Unstoppable or Defiance, but I wouldn't have the energy execute my combos, and the loss of AoPM would dramatically reduce my ability to heal and out-sustain Ebon Ruin (And recovering fast from Strafing Run) aswell as losing crit chance. For me, it felt like I've slaughtered my character.
Now, the point is... 80% of other mechanics are left to die. It would be fine it it was only about the usual cocktail having a slight advantage but... Have you tried the next best thing? It's barely 1/4 of the efficiency of the usual defensive scheme. Let's say that I want to be effective in BASH with an EGO CON REC ID Mastery TK Blader with synergies based on Ego Reverberation, the question is, in how many pieces will I end up if I'm actually not disintegrated? And in WHAT is it wrong to try to be efficient with this?
The gap between what's best and the rest is just far too big and the highest caliber builds we get to see shouldn't even exist.
heh... Apparently no one except Neiuso [ohai
hey, Penny.
haha... Seriously? Wow. Mate, get a clue. :P I used to destroy everyone with Quarry and END statted. Don't be silly. :P
Quit being so logical. Naughty mynx.
I think you should be congratulating the people who tried so hard and put so much effort into...not disagreeing? I think that's the amazing part.
Yes, of course they should. Character customization is the only strong point that Champions Online has. Once you remove character customization, there's nothing left other than the joy of running and jumping around with acrobatics.
Strange.. the point was right there in the first post. This has nothing to do with "staying inside a power set" or "sticking to a theme". The first post doesn't even mention those things as being part of the challenge.
I'll reiterate the point for you, since it doesn't take long to type: Make a build that doesn't use the standard pvp powers, go into a hero game, ask people to attack you so you can prove your build is competetive, record it, and post it.
Sadly, none of that is recorded. But please, take that build that you used to dominate with, or get your blade friend, make some videos, and prove me wrong. So far, all the videos that have been made around here seem to have been made for the express purpose of proving what you just said wrong. Ironically, these videos were quite possibly made by people you consider friends.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Smoochy, while you were sleeping, I was busy making "top-tier PvP" super-competitive egotists run like newbies from melee builds. I got tired of literally chasing elites. Nothing personal, but you are misinformed, inexperienced, unskilled, illogical, and apparently absent. Spending 23 minutes in the ren cen buzzing about people's heads and reading the forums won't help you do anything but fall blind in a ditch. I hope my enemies learned their lesson... i.e., don't underestimate people. Have fun making movies.
Hey, smoochy, want a challenge? Go make your own "PvP build" without listening to foolish mortals, without using nooby weapons, then PvE all over "elite PvP" veteranoobz' gravekipz in BASH and sit in a lonely, 5-hour BASH queue. ^_^ *hands smoochy a CD player for the long waiting times*
I get WHAT you're asking people to do, what I don't understand is WHY. I did see in a response to someone else above you stated your point is simply to call out people who claim you don't need the powers you listed to be effective in PvP. So...Okay then.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Yes, that is the point. A lot of people don't get that. People who openly say "You must use these powers to compete" and then use those powers, really have nothing to disagree with in this thread; the premise here fully agrees with what those people do and why they do it. If they're butthurt because someone thinks their builds aren't unique or original, then they just need to realize that if half or more of their build is just like everyone else's, then originality was never a goal in their build to begin with, so why are they so upset that someone is pointing out that they didn't achieve a goal they obviously never set out to achieve.
or is it something like "Today I'm drinking Heiniken instead of Budweiser, and I'm patting myself on the back for my originality... and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
As soon as Cryptic hires me. The change I want to see can't be done by players; they're not cashing a pay-check, so they're not obligated to do it either.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Smoochy, we want to see your cute avatar flogging some lame nuub like green jelly with melee attacks or some such. Get to it!! ^_~
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Unfair
You can use whatever you like, you just won't get a perfect score of: Marshmallow Muffins. The best you'll be able to hope for is: Wiggly Dog Butt.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Oh Lucy, how's that leg of yours? Last time in BASH yo got a nice 0-4 no?
Stairs pees on yer trashtalkipz.
Will.I.am
Who the fik is impiam?
Took you long enough bro!!
No. Read my posts next time.
Ask penny and neiuso, my vidio of excellent quality is coming!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The build was very good for the limitations you were under, it was just lacking in the DPS department (which was to be expected). Smoochy probably won't like a couple of the powers you took, but they fit the build well anyway.
Funny to say you performed better than most "copybuilders" that I normally fight.
Your a creepeh man :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
......
......
......
UNAVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE...ANY IDEAS?
If there is no Ebon Ruin most of the damage is sustainable even by our standards.
This is true. I hate the fact that someone can nearly double the effectiveness of their build by slapping on a single power.
I totally agree.That doesn't mean ebon ruin has to get nerfed. Heals and dodge should be the ones to get a nerf.
Most PvP builds are almost unbeatable if you don't take ER or Pestilence. Unless you are a super squishy dps that is.
To be honest though, I'm not really hopeful. One person had you constantly on the defensive, once you get into BASH you're gonna drop like a stump rolling up a hill.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.