Videos where you use unique builds and don't get destroyed.

smoochan

Here is my challenge to you. Make something completely unique, and pvp with it, and show a video of you doing well with the build against other players who are using strong pvp builds.

You get more points the less your build matches the standard setup. Make sure your hotkeys/device bars are visible in the video.


EDIT - List of powers from somewhere later in this thread.


Aura of Primal Majesty
Quarry
Way of the Warrior
Defiance
Night Warrior

Force Geyser
Ebon Ruin
2 Gun Mojo
Strafing Run
Unleashed Rage
Dragon Uppercut
Dragons Wrath
Dragons Claw

Ascension
Ego Surge
Masterful Dodge

Conviction
Bionic Shielding
Paliate
Ressurgence
Ego Sleep

Sonic Boom Generator
Evasive Manuevers
Molecular Self Assembly

Strength Primary w/ Warden/Guardian + Vindicator


EDIT - added stipulation from post 5

At the beginning of the match you must announce over Zone chat that you are there to prove that your build can stand toe to toe with any other build, and that other players should go after you with the intent of farming you for kills.

Note: As you can tell, this implies you'd be doing this in BASH, in case someone doesn't understand that somehow.

purin1

I'll get back with you as soon as I get my hands on a decent recording program and a computer whose specs aren't complete poo.

lucasjackson

purin1 wrote: »

I'll get back with you as soon as I get my hands on a decent recording program and a computer whose specs aren't complete poo.

Just hit PrtScrn a million times and stitch it together in the World's Best GIF.

nepht

I am sure Malware has the last time I went into BASH on vid with my freeform savage version of Nepht though I was no were near the top ( I think I came last or second last in the scores ) I wasn't destroyed and walked away with a good few kills and most importantly some acclaim ^__^

Unique builds as in sticking to a theme and such arnt going to steamroll BASH ..BUT if the player learns to use their build right they arnt going to be pushovers either.

smoochan

nepht wrote: »

I am sure Malware has the last time I went into BASH on vid with my freeform savage version of Nepht though I was no were near the top ( I think I came last or second last in the scores ) I wasn't destroyed and walked away with a good few kills and most importantly some acclaim ^__^

Unique builds as in sticking to a theme and such arnt going to steamroll BASH ..BUT if the player learns to use their build right they arnt going to be pushovers either.

Oh right, that reminds me of another stipulation.

At the beginning of the match you must announce over Zone chat that you are there to prove that your build can stand toe to toe with any other build, and that other players should go after you with the intent of farming you for kills.

After all, if they notice that you're weak and then don't go after you because of it...

lucasjackson

smoochan wrote: »

After all, if they notice that you're weak and then don't go after you because of it...

Honor in PVP? Not in my CO!

itsbrou

Fine. Challenge accepted.

theravenforce

Mentella <--- Has announced in Zone and run into a BASH match with just Psi Lash, Manipulator and Empathic Healing. Managed 4 kills in BASH. Has no build, passive apart from those three powers. (This is mainly done for a joke. Not serious. Uses Prototype PSI-Bomb Device for comedic effect. )

Alara the Light Guardian. <---Competed in UTC, BASH and Zompocalypse. Has survived against opposing players, so far. (guaranteed to change once I post this lol). Build is not a damage build and farming attempts thus far have proved ineffective. Had ALOT of fun last week running PvP matches with ppls such as Faredawg, Prometheus, Amyija, I.M.P and a few others. (Was bored and was expecting to get steam rolled entirely. Died twice in 12 different matches BASH, UTC(died), KoTH, Stronghold(died), Zompocalypse. Uses Vesperine Cloak for flying purposes, as Phoenix Flight can cause lag for others)

BioWasp. <---Particle/Electric Build. Loved Zompocalypse and going PEW PEW! With Power Gauntlet (Not as impressive as Alara survival wise though Q_Q)

Had good fun.

Has no idea how to record and edit, so hopefully I'll be featured in someone's vid lol

theravenforce

smoochan wrote: »

Here is my challenge to you. Make something completely unique, and pvp with it, and show a video of you doing well with the build against other players who are using strong pvp builds.

You get more points the less your build matches the standard setup. Make sure your hotkeys/device bars are visible in the video.

I do like this idea though, I was thinking of proposing this on forums before, but wasn't sure how well people would take to the idea.

It would be nice to see diversity and creativity make a come back in PvP, perhaps even regular theme builders could return to the stage.

mrf0rz1

What do you call 'doing well'? For all we know we could just make supertanks with random powers and just not die.

implin

My brother and I are working on a power armour build for bash at the moment, we should do some video's of our various strange build ideas Some of them actually can win duels and win in bash, but saying that my brothers fire form SR dps version of my build managed to win.

Basically conviction is a must for any build but the rest should be changeable still.





Just saying... There is a limit to what we can use.

vitalityprime

smoochan wrote: »

Here is my challenge to you. Make something completely unique, and pvp with it, and show a video of you doing well with the build against other players who are using strong pvp builds.

You get more points the less your build matches the standard setup. Make sure your hotkeys/device bars are visible in the video.

You need to clarify what exactly you mean by "doing well" and what you consider "getting destroyed".

I mean, I've "won" my "fair share" of BASH's using my might concept build and no devices...but I have been "destroyed" by multiple SR on many occasions.



EDIT: Just saw your other "stipulation" post...and realized this is a joke thread.

purin1

vitalityprime wrote: »

You need to clarify what exactly you mean by "doing well" and what you consider "getting destroyed".

I mean, I've "won" my "fair share" of BASH's using my might concept build and no devices...but I have been "destroyed" by multiple SR on many occasions.



EDIT: Just saw your other "stipulation" post...and realized this is a joke thread.

I doubt it's a joke. Even if it is, I'm still going to try my best to put together a video under the mentioned stipulations.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

smoochan

mrf0rz1 wrote: »

What do you call 'doing well'? For all we know we could just make supertanks with random powers and just not die.

Well, if you make a supertank then you lose points because supertanks would hardly be using a unique power setup, unless you have some truly unique way of making a supertank in which case you would get many many points!

Doing well within the context of bash would mean getting kills without having to let someone else do most of the work while defending yourself against multiple attackers and standing a reasonable chance of not dying while also not having to run and hide constantly. So it doesn't count if you're getting kills via tagging, or just getting a hit or two in on someone who's being destroyed by other players. It also doesn't count if people are nice and don't attack you because they notice that your build is less than optimized.

Basically, I'm asking you to do what someone using a standard pvp setup can do, while using as little of the standard setup as possible, and film it. The more you deviate from the standard "you gotta do this to do good in pvp" setup, the more points you get.

oobtree

smooooch come BASH with meh! :cool:

smoochan

oobtree wrote: »

smooooch come BASH with meh! :cool:

I tried queing for bash. For some reason it never popped... so I got bored and went to play NWO.

mainscrizz

I've done well with my builds. granted, I haven't really played in about 8 months.

pallihwtf

Oh OHHHHH. Wait wait wait. Smoochan plays Champions Online? What the fffffffffff****

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHA

PVP LEL SHOW ME BILD?

WHAT? WHAT?

God damn it.

oobtree

2 Pages of comments and not a single person actually made a video of something different...

Well this build is a little dfferent. Pestilence with PRE Primary. Irony.

pallihwtf

It's hard to make something DIFFERENT and make it work, because there are lotsa builds that work, but they arent exactly new... There are few builds that are not popular. We can almost call em that.

You can make a unique build, but the other question is that does it get destroyed? Most likely, yes.

You don't get destroyed? okay, well, can you kill your opponent? No..? Awww.

I had one Fireball build in mind that I should try out.

riverocean

Hmm I might try this with "Poison Arrow" my Archery + Pestilence build.

purin1

Update: I just ordered a new computer and found some recording software. Hopefully I'll figure everything out soon after I get it all.

oobtree

smoochan

You get points for using electric form, as well as not having ebon mojo or strafing run. You lose many points due to Conviction, Bionic Shielding, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Evasive Manuevers and Resurgence. It's a good start, but I was hoping to see someone deviate a bit more on the core aspects, to really prove that you don't need any of these standard pvp powers to compete.

EDIT- oh, and sonic boom generator and MSA... believe I saw those in there, and you lose some points for those as well.


Since the types of builds being used by other players isn't under your control, that doesn't affect the points. However, you do lose some points for not requesting that people attempt to farm you to prove that your build can take it while still dishing out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I give you a score of: Tomato Soup.

oobtree

smoochan wrote: »

You get points for using electric form, as well as not having ebon mojo or strafing run. You lose many points due to Conviction, Bionic Shielding, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Evasive Manuevers and Resurgence.

Sounds like someone wants me to just play a different game

So what would you recommend I replace the heals with? Or my ability to survive using dodge and my ability to do more critical damage? You just want people to throw random **** together and die repeatedly, well, good luck getting videos of that. Especially since only a few people seem to make CO videos, lol.

stergiosman

Do you get points for using aura of radiant protection? Think I got something that might not suck too much. And what about LR ?

pallihwtf

Smoochie, you gotta realize that a PvP player needs to heal itself! What do you suggest, EMPATHIC HEALING? TIS AINT THE 2010! I think the build is pretty original already if it doesn't use:

-AoPM, Quarry or Defiance as a passive (Or Nightwarrior stab sleep + Bl?rt grenade)

- Is not using the STR con/int superstat combo

- Doesn't use the most common powers

monaahiru

pallihwtf wrote: »

I think the build is pretty original already if it doesn't use:

-AoPM, Quarry or Defiance as a passive (Or Nightwarrior stab sleep + Bl?rt grenade)

- Is not using the STR con/int superstat combo

- Doesn't use the most common powers

- Is not using the STR con/dex superstat combo
- Is not using the STR con/pre superstat combo
- Is not using the CON dex/int superstat combo
- Is not using the CON dex/pre superstat combo
- Is not taking Protector tree and Protector Mastery


xD

amyjia

I think it would be helpful if the powers "not allowed to be used" were specifically identified and listed. This way, people know what exactly to stay away from so there is no room for confusion. :redface:

monaahiru

amyjia wrote: »

I think it would be helpful if the powers "not allowed to be used" were specifically identified and listed. This way, people know what exactly to stay away from so there is no room for confusion. :redface:

No Conviction, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Resurgence, Protector Tree, No CON/STR ss...:eek::eek::eek:

theravenforce

Interesting project.

I would love to see a PvP match where everyone has an actual theme, without PvPee advantages (save NTTG).

Would be pretty cool, IMO.

I think it might be difficult to build an effective toon (PvPwise) without resorting to the usual builds.

Personally, I have one toon, who can survive PvP BUT, she is a healer :P

I got the impression that as long as the attacks were not conventional, that would be unique, as well as the stat set up.

But if your theme was darkness, you could have Ebon Ruin or if you were a gunslinger 2GM was ok etc.

bloodx13

theravenforce wrote: »

Interesting project.

I would love to see a PvP match where everyone has an actual theme, without PvPee advantages (save NTTG).

Would be pretty cool, IMO.

I think it might be difficult to build an effective toon (PvPwise) without resorting to the usual builds.

Personally, I have one toon, who can survive PvP BUT, she is a healer :P

I got the impression that as long as the attacks were not conventional, that would be unique, as well as the stat set up.

But if your theme was darkness, you could have Ebon Ruin or if you were a gunslinger 2GM was ok etc.

Thats the thing who is anyone else to cay someones build is not theme? Theme's are pretty wide in general especially in a superhero game. I have a Ice toon that uses avalanche and ice blast but he is aopm does that mean he isnt theme? Or is theme simply using the sets not used often? some people seem to have a very skewed view of what a theme is in this game.

smoochan

oobtree wrote: »

Sounds like someone wants me to just play a different game

So what would you recommend I replace the heals with? Or my ability to survive using dodge and my ability to do more critical damage? You just want people to throw random **** together and die repeatedly, well, good luck getting videos of that. Especially since only a few people seem to make CO videos, lol.

Don't worry, I totally agree with you that the idea of someone not using the standard pvp cocktail and expecting to be able to be reasonably competetive, no matter what that players skill level, is a completely and utterly laughable idea.

I made this challenge because I know that no one will be able to prove otherwise, despite the claim having been made on this forum and in game many times that this is not the case. People will talk 'till their blue in the face about "You just have to find a build that fits your style" and "If you have the skills, you can win with any build", but when it comes time to prove it, those people are conviniently using the standard pvp cocktail that they claim isn't needed.

So what would I have you do? Whatever you want. I wasn't really under the impression that you were part of the "any build can work if you're skilled" crowd, since that has never come through in any of your builds.

pallihwtf wrote: »

Smoochie, you gotta realize that a PvP player needs to heal itself! What do you suggest, EMPATHIC HEALING? TIS AINT THE 2010! I think the build is pretty original already if it doesn't use:

-AoPM, Quarry or Defiance as a passive (Or Nightwarrior stab sleep + Bl?rt grenade)

- Is not using the STR con/int superstat combo

- Doesn't use the most common powers

As above, I realize that it is completely ludicrous that someone would not use the standard pvp healing powers and expect to be competetive. I know you can't use empathic healing and hope to be any good in pvp, and I know that no one will be able to prove otherwise. Yes, folks do get points for using a non-standards passive and non-standard superstat/spec combinations, and not using the standard attack powers. However, they will lose points for every standard power that they still do use. That's just how the scoring works, because that's the point of the challenge.

amyjia wrote: »

I think it would be helpful if the powers "not allowed to be used" were specifically identified and listed. This way, people know what exactly to stay away from so there is no room for confusion. :redface:

Aura of Primal Majesty
Quarry
Way of the Warrior
Defiance
Night Warrior

Force Geyser
Ebon Ruin
2 Gun Mojo
Strafing Run
Unleashed Rage
Dragon Uppercut
Dragons Wrath
Dragons Claw

Ascension
Ego Surge
Masterful Dodge

Conviction
Bionic Shielding
Paliate
Ressurgence
Ego Sleep

Sonic Boom Generator
Evasive Manuevers
Molecular Self Assembly

Strength Primary w/ Warden/Guardian + Vindicator

I believe that's the whole list. May have forgot some; don't worry, if I remember an obvious one later I'll make sure to deduct points . I won't be doing anything like "Oh, you managed to make Fire Strike work... well now it's not allowed!", since that would obviously produce unrealistic and fictional results.

To get the highest possible score, you would want to avoid all of these. Also for best results, the best environment is one where the majority of other players are using standard pvp powers and have been asked to aggressively pursue you as though you were perpetually at the top of the score board/someone they hate and who's fun they want to ruin.

theravenforce wrote: »

Interesting project.

I would love to see a PvP match where everyone has an actual theme, without PvPee advantages (save NTTG).

[...]

bloodx13 wrote: »

Thats the thing who is anyone else to cay someones build is not theme? Theme's are pretty wide in general especially in a superhero game. I have a Ice toon that uses avalanche and ice blast but he is aopm does that mean he isnt theme? Or is theme simply using the sets not used often? some people seem to have a very skewed view of what a theme is in this game.

This challenge has nothing to do with theme. Points will neither be added nor subtracted based on whether or not the participant adheres to a theme.

oobtree

Smooch, I challenge you to make more unrealistic challenges, and upload a video of your results.

mrf0rz1

With this thread, Smoochan was just making a point about how only 10% of the powers, combinations, and mechanics are viable and that mostly everyone would base the core of all their schemes on these 10% to the point that they wouldn't even realize and care that other things exist, and for a good reason.

Imagine that my beloved DEX EGO REC Shadow Form TK blader build manages to do very well in BASH, duels, and potential 1vMany situations. It was remotely possible before.

Not following 80% of the basic clown scheme is close to a death sentence, and it could be any feature. My Mechassault is an AoPM'er with PBR and Detonation which uses a massive amount of EGO as primary stat, and it feels like the weakest AoPM build of the world just because I didn't pick STR primary and one of the more popular attacks.

stergiosman

Lol smooch, sorry to say but you are proving nothing here. Being captain obvious doesn't prove a thing. If every combination worked then this game would require 0 thinking or imagination!
Check your list of powers that are very common.You just listed 10% of the powers the game has.
Imp had an ice form/strafing run build.Worked very well.Kyu Azuki has a cool pestilence/2gm build.Works very well.I had a dex/con/int LR/tk lance build. Worked very well.
If you begin saying that those builds lack originality or imagination, I say you lack mature thought and serious logic.
Talking about a game you don't know, or don't want to know any more makes you look silly.After all PvP is not for everyone in all games.Tried playing a SP hunter in WoW? Works well in pve, but PvP? FORGET ABOUT IT.Playing a dk in arenas maybe? FORGET ABOUT IT.
Some powersets/combinations work better than others. It is logical and expected. You can still do pvp, but don't expect being able to tank others as you suggest.

smoochan

oobtree wrote: »

Smooch, I challenge you to make more unrealistic challenges, and upload a video of your results.

The entire point here is that this is an unrealistic challenge. I agree with you that the idea proposed here is entirely and thoroughly ludicrus, and that no one will be able to do it to any meaningful degree. At some point, you might actually realize that for all your effort, all you're doing is agreeing with what I'm saying

stergiosman wrote: »

Lol smooch, sorry to say but you are proving nothing here. Being captain obvious doesn't prove a thing. If every combination worked then this game would require 0 thinking or imagination!

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not making a call to action to make every combination workable. However I disagree with you; having a small list of must-have powers is what makes the game require zero thinking and imagination. After all, if its obvious what powers you have to use, why would you ever have to, or want to, think about what to use? Imagination neither required nor desired. In fact, the more you deviate from the common powers, the less effective you will be, so really it's: Imagination neither required, and in fact punished.

stergiosman wrote: »

Check your list of powers that are very common.You just listed 10% of the powers the game has.
Imp had an ice form/strafing run build.Worked very well.Kyu Azuki has a cool pestilence/2gm build.Works very well.I had a dex/con/int LR/tk lance build. Worked very well.
If you begin saying that those builds lack originality or imagination, I say you lack mature thought and serious logic.

They do lack originality and imagination. You can't be considered particularly clever because you thought to yourself "Hey, Strafing Run might be good to use in pvp". On the other hand I would like to see your LR/tk build in action, and especially would like to see your hotbar for it since I suspect the cocktail is present, meaning the build isn't as original or imaginative as you're claiming.

Your claim that I lack mature thought and serious logic isn't actually backed up by anything that you've said, so it just kind of seems like a tacked on attempt at an insult. Provide some supporting logic.

stergiosman wrote: »

Talking about a game you don't know, or don't want to know any more makes you look silly.After all PvP is not for everyone in all games.Tried playing a SP hunter in WoW? Works well in pve, but PvP? FORGET ABOUT IT.Playing a dk in arenas maybe? FORGET ABOUT IT.
Some powersets/combinations work better than others. It is logical and expected. You can still do pvp, but don't expect being able to tank others as you suggest.

Again, you seem to misunderstand the content of this thread. I'm not sure what the idea that "pvp is not for everyone" has to do with this challenge. If anything, your WoW-based examples support what I'm claiming since you're saying that those cases are mirrored here in CO. I agree with you, not all builds work in pvp here, that's sort of the entire point of the thread.

However, there are people, unlike you, who claim that is not the case. This thread is for those people to come forward and prove that they're right. Since you don't believe that is not the case, nor have any intention of proving that it is, I'm left to wonder as to the point of your response, or why you think you're disagreeing with the intent of the thread.

theravenforce

bloodx13 wrote: »

Thats the thing who is anyone else to cay someones build is not theme? Theme's are pretty wide in general especially in a superhero game. I have a Ice toon that uses avalanche and ice blast but he is aopm does that mean he isnt theme? Or is theme simply using the sets not used often? some people seem to have a very skewed view of what a theme is in this game.

I mean non franken build style heroes.

If I threw together AoPM, 2GM, Force Geyser, UR, Ebon Ruin. I wouldn't call that a theme build in the slightest.

If someone was a magical ice user then yes AoPM would be understandable, that's just my own personal view.

Then you get people who say: "My theme is to pwn u" :rolleyes:

In my little PvP experience the most interesting and enjoyable fights I have had are with other players who are stuck to a theme such as a powered armor toon, an ice user, a fire user etc.

Also one of the longest duels I had was with someone who like myself didn't have PvP advantages.

It was just a thought I decided to share.

smoochan

theravenforce wrote: »

I mean non franken build style heroes.

If I threw together AoPM, 2GM, Force Geyser, UR, Ebon Ruin. I wouldn't call that a theme build in the slightest.

[...]

One downside to that idea is that there could conceivably be players who have those powers and that they picked them specifically for their theme completely apart from any knowledge of how those powers perform in pvp, and it would be a shame that they would then be told that their theme is invalid.

mrf0rz1

smoochan wrote: »

However, there are people, unlike you, who claim that is not the case.

The ones you actually speak of only believe that replacing one power makes the build completly unique and different up to the very core of it.

smoochan

mrf0rz1 wrote: »

The ones you actually speak of only believe that replacing one power makes the build completly unique and different up to the very core of it.

And those people are quite silly indeed.

stergiosman

First of, I can name you all 14 powers that build has. Heals were bcr and conviction, ascension and ego surge AOs, MD,LR,TK lance-assault-burst,MSA,force geyser,the tk shield which I can not remember and concentration.
You claim that it requires no imagination right? Then go on, make one of these builds you are so sure that work in PvP and let's have a duel. Seriously, prove your point with facts, show how little thought and imagination it requires.
To me, it seems that the sole purpose of this thread is to prove us that thinking and being creative doesn't work in COPvP. Mal comes up with some original and well thought builds, and you just search for something that most people use and he has in his build, so you can say again "you prove my point".
Well,the WoW facts are there to show you how a game with one of the most active PvP communities requires you to build in a certain way in order to PvP. Does that limit your options? Yes. Does it limit your options so much that it doesn't require any thinking at all? Certainly not.
Even Con is not needed in making a build nowadays, since I have seen at least one person (@Felric) who has 5k hp and LR or quarry as his passive. And yes, he does more than just fine.
Every well thought build can work in PvP. The fact that most people carrying the PvP tag are copybuilders is because of the expanding belief that PvP is all about premade builds and gears.And that certainly isn't the case here.
Again, I challenge you to make on of those no brainer builds and have a duel.If gear is a problem, I can wear heroics, too.

mrf0rz1

stergiosman wrote: »

First of, I can name you all 14 powers that build has. Heals were bcr and palliate, ascension and ego surge AOs, MD,LR,TK lance-assault-burst,MSA,force geyser,the tk shield which I can not remember and nanobot swarm.
You claim that it requires no imagination right? Then go on, make one of these builds you are so sure that work in PvP and let's have a duel. Seriously, prove your point with facts, show how little thought and imagination it requires.
To me, it seems that the sole purpose of this thread is to prove us that thinking and being creative doesn't work in COPvP. Mal comes up with some original and well thought builds, and you just search for something that most people use and he has in his build, so you can say again "you prove my point".

Sters. It's not about what you attack with. It's about breaking the very core of pretty much all the builds, such as cycling active defenses and dealing with energy. Just replacing AoPM-Ruin with Pesti-Defile won't change the mechanics and how you must deal with it, they have the same base which is CON INT with STR (primary or not, nonetheless it must be there), Masterful Dodge cycled with another active defense, Ego Surge, Conviction and all that. THEN you decide of what you fancy.

The problem is that it's become such a no-brainer scheme that you completly forgot that there were things like Empathic Healing, and framework related Reverberations to take energy, and synergy on. You're going to say "Of course, they're barely 1/4 as efficienct as STR-CON-INT-MD-Ressurg-EgoSurge-Conviction-BCR!". Yes, everything else doesn't work out there. And that's the whole point, unless proven wrong.

stergiosman

At ph tomorrow, might as well make a vid of my build.

oobtree

I don't understand the point in asking everyone to target you, as you also suggest for your proof gathering. When everyone targets you, even with a top typical PvP build, you will most likely lose as well, so... No point.

Cycled Eruptions can make anyone invincible, even if you decide to not slot a passive.

xeiros

These are all powers that have made up the core of the vast majority of min maxed builds in CO for years in both PvP and PvE. This is nothing new. Players choose them because they are the best in their given categories. Even the next best option tends to pails in comparison assuming they have a choice to make at all. Do I enjoy not have any viable choice beyond those few powers? Of course not.

The best HoT (BCR), burst heal (Resurgence), single target maintain (2gun Mojo), ranged burst damage click (SR), melee burst damage click (UR), healing strength buff(Ascension), critical chance buff (Nimble Mind), melee defense penetration (DW), single target charge (Defile), fastest self heal (conviction), perception debuff (smoke grenade), and so on ... Hell in a number of these categories there's only one power to choose from. Need a power that heals a percentage of your max HP cause you've got 17k? Palliate is your only option.

Give players many viable power options to choose from. Allow them to have a choice in the first place. That's how your create build diversity. They won't be shoehorned into the same core powers again and again. This again goes for both PvE and PvP.

smoochan

oobtree wrote: »

I don't understand the point in asking everyone to target you, as you also suggest for your proof gathering. When everyone targets you, even with a top typical PvP build, you will most likely lose as well, so... No point.

Cycled Eruptions can make anyone invincible, even if you decide to not slot a passive.

Your typical top pvp build can survive such an onslaught for quite a while, wether it be through sheer mitigation, healing, or evasion. Any build you create within the bounds of this threads challenge will drop dead in mere seconds. Asking people to farm you will illustrate the difference between the builds quickly. If you made two videos, and in one of them you played a frankenbuild, or whatever you wanna call it, and in the other you played a build that used none of these powers, and in both videos you sent out the request to be farmed and ended each video the first time you died, I'm sure you can guess which video would be a lot shorter, and consistently so.

Think of it as attempting to cause controlled conditions for an experiment. If you don't send out the request, then it's entirely possible that you could do well simply because no one ended up targeting you much for a variety of reasons; this would come through in the video of course, but then the person making the video would be wasting their time recording it, and the watchers would be wasting their time watching it. If every video has the same circumstances, which is people mobbing you, then it gives us a basis for comparison.


Cycling eruptions would of course lose you a lot of points since it would be considered outside interference, since as you said it completely invalidates the build choice.

stergiosman wrote: »

First of, I can name you all 14 powers that build has. Heals were bcr and conviction, ascension and ego surge AOs, MD,LR,TK lance-assault-burst,MSA,force geyser,the tk shield which I can not remember and concentration.
[...]

You've proven my point quite nicely by showing a build that uses a mostly standard setup.

I feel like you're still not really getting the point.

pallihwtf

We will never use anything unique, because we all share the same travel power! :biggrin:

Aheuahbeuauhuaheu

stergiosman

If your point is that there are 4 powers out of the 14 a build has that are the ones people usually chose,since the other options are not as good as those,then yes you are right.If your point is thatbuilding requires no thought,then that is illogical,since as i showed you with the example of my build,imp's build,kyu's build, the 10 power slots remaining are filled with different powers,matching different playstyles.
The way i see it,there are 3 power types.The offensive ones,the defensive ones,and the utility ones.
Offensive powers,include attacking powers and active offenses(not all of them imo,since Ascension is mostly a heal buff).Usually, PvP builds have 4-5 of those powers.Usually,1 single target attack,1 AoE,1 knock,1 sort of CC and one 1 Active offense is what i chose and see others chose.The single target attack can be anything,from ebon ruin or defile to tk assault/lance.The AoE can also be anything,like UR,SR,Chest beam,Shoulder Launcher,Force Cascade,sword cyclone and pretty much any AoE one wants.For the knock people most usually use Force Geyser,but that doesn't mean there are no other options...matter of fact the last few days,i've seen more DU builds than FG ones.At the moment i'm using tk burst's knock,chest beam is a very useful knock debuff that is also an AoE attack,same goes for force cascade.Crowd Controlling is very important as well, and pretty much every power (other than urthona's charm or ego placate) can work,others work better others worse,but they all are options and i've seen most of them used in duels and in HG.The active offense is usually Ego Surge,because of its critical chance buff.In many high dex/crit chance builds though,imbue or ice sceath are more useful,for their critical severity boost.I agree that as far as active offenses go,we don't have a lot of choices.
Defensive powers,include heals,active defenses,defense buffs and healing buffs.Now, the number of these kind of powers a build gets depends on its goal and role.Usually 3-4 heals,1-2 active defenses and maybe 1 or even none defense buff.Heals are conviction,BCR,Bionic Shielding,Resurgence,Palliate and let's not forget the double bubble builds,Mindful Reinforcement and protection field.[With these 7 powers,if you chose to take 3 heals,you have exactly 35 possible combinations,because yes,you can choose any of those you like and combine them together].Active defenses are 90% of the time Masterful dodge and you can take Unbreakable as well.I agree that we don't have much choices in ADs.Defense/healing buffs are powers like Ascension,Evasive Maneuvers,the new redirected force and some block replacers like force shield,tk shield,energy shield,parry etc.
Utility powers,are your passive,your form,an energy unlock and also Nanobot swarm that reduces your cooldowns.Usually,builds have 1-2 passives(yes,i still see some double passive builds with an offensive and a defensive passive,switching depending on the situation),1 form,1 energy unlock and nanobot swarm or a circle if needed.Passive can be a defensive passive,thus increasing the build's ability to survive,an offensive passive,thus increasing the attack power of the build,a hybrid passive,the new congress of selves,hope they release more hybrid passives in the future,i like the idea or a support passive.The only defensive passive that is never used in PvP is Regeneration.Defiance,Lr and invul are pretty common,PFF is usually used by people who know what they're doing and worked more than just fine.Offensive passives are very common nowadays,thanks to the huge defensive bonuses we get from the legion gears.I believe that the only kinda useless offensive passive is Fire form,since ice form does exactly the same thing better.I've yet to see a hybrid passive build,and that's what i've been trying to make in the PH.And finally,support passives,usually pet builds choose Aura of ebon destruction,all types of builds can take Aura Of Primal Majesty,for the high versatility it offers,Aura of Radiant protection i know i've used for the immediate defense buff,aura of arcane clarity is a bit useless with the int/cd reduction stacking that can be done through gear nowadays,but i've seen it used too.Seraphim is also a good mix of an offensive/support passive.All the forms can be used in PvP.Most common nowadays are Concentration,Enrage and Manipulator but the rest are used as well.As an energy unlock power,almost all builds have MSA.The rest can be used too,but MSA is simple and useful in all types of builds.I agree that we need more and better energy unlocks.Finally, nonobot swarm can be used to reduce cooldowns immediately and do things like using SR twice in a row,have MD up for 30 sec or ascension for 36,use evasive maneuvers twice in a row to stack an extra 40% dodge chance(48 if you don't want the stealth advantage), fire 8 ice grenades in a row (:cool:) etc.Circles are used too,usually it's circle of the primal dominion for the knock resistance it offers in builds without str or con primary.
And it's not just the powers,but also the stats(no,str/con/int-con/int/dex are not the only combinations out there,dex primary is also used,ego primary is also used,int primary is still used,even after the nerf of Revitalize),the specs and the gear.The combinations that can be made are alot smoochan,and each of them has its weaknesses. It does require thinking,and every single person i see using a copy build,is usually a new comer who will end a bash with a 3-7 score.It's all about having your own playstyle smoochan,as i showed you,even the heals can make more than 35 combinations.I am proud to say that i've seen many people use all 35 of them,and i myself choose my heals depending on the situation.So,go on,prove me wrong,speaking about a game you don't play anymore is silly.Stop trying to become a great forum thinker,come and prove your logic in game,with facts.Again,i challenge you,or anyone here to make a build he believes is a copycat and requires no imagination and duel me,in the powerhouse,no need to leave.At the moment i have an ebon ruin-tk lance build.

smoochan

Again... you put a whole lot of effort into illustrating my point. You could have saved yourself a lot of time by simply saying "I agree with the premise, and I do not plan on attempting this challenge because of that".


You are going to realize that at some point right? You're basically arguing that you agree with me, and you seem to have a problem with me calling out the people who disagree with you.

Just because you know you can't complete a challenge, doesn't mean you have to try so hard to invalidate it, especially when your inability, and the inability of others, to complete that challenge is ultimately proving your ideas about pvp building correct.