These food analogies are worse than some of the cooking in Hell's Kitchen. It's like sitting down at a restaurant, finding a burger and it's really really delicious, and then someone starts throwing the burgers at people and it turns out the burgers are lethal explosive burgers when thrown, so they're replaced with burgers that aren't as delicious but at least they don't violently EXPLODE.
Right from the Turtle's mouth, the Throwing Blades fix is indefinitely temporary. They might be able to actually fix it later, or they might never be able to fix it at all. Schrodinger's Bug!
That being said, I'm still using it because it is passable with Night Warrior's charge time reduction, but it's still a right pain in the butt to use. Good luck to anyone else trying to use it though!
I do not understand why people say CC is not viable. CC *is* viable if you build for it and use the CC specs.
No, it's not, because it does NOTHING against Supervillains (and up).
If there had ever been a competent designer giving things about half a second's worth of thought working on this game, they would've figured a superhero should be able to stun/hold/whatever a supervillain about as well as the other way round, right?
CC has been one of the game's EPIC FAILS from day 1, with every mook (that has a CC ability, obviously) being better at CCing a superhero than a superhero is at CC a supervillain. Makes you feel real super heroic, right?
No, it's not, because it does NOTHING against Supervillains (and up).
If there had ever been a competent designer giving things about half a second's worth of thought working on this game, they would've figured a superhero should be able to stun/hold/whatever a supervillain about as well as the other way round, right?
CC has been one of the game's EPIC FAILS from day 1, with every mook (that has a CC ability, obviously) being better at CCing a superhero than a superhero is at CC a supervillain. Makes you feel real super heroic, right?
No, it's not, because it does NOTHING against Supervillains (and up). ...
And this is where you're wrong.
With the crowd control specs you're debuffing damage resistance and/or damage dealt by the affected mob. If you're using Sentinel Mastery you're providing healing. That's far from nothing in my opinion.
How about Iniquity? It's arguably the best heal for allies in the game. It cannot be used on foes or be cast on self. This means while I'm soloing (and even the majority of the groups I find myself in) Iniquity on my hotbar is a complete waste of a power pick and 4 advantage points. Yet, it is very nice to have and can be extremely useful other times.
CC is much the same, except it is never completely useless like Iniquity so long as you spec for the debuffs from CC.
well this thread has been mildly amusing, at least once the usual "frank and forthright discussion" (quote Babylon5) started.
Time to go level my new telepath.
With the crowd control specs you're debuffing damage resistance and/or damage dealt by the affected mob. If you're using Sentinel Mastery you're providing healing. That's far from nothing in my opinion.
How about Iniquity? It's arguably the best heal for allies in the game. It cannot be used on foes or be cast on self. This means while I'm soloing (and even the majority of the groups I find myself in) Iniquity on my hotbar is a complete waste of a power pick and 4 advantage points. Yet, it is very nice to have and can be extremely useful other times.
CC is much the same, except it is never completely useless like Iniquity so long as you spec for the debuffs from CC.
CC is viable if you want to participate in Alert Level missions and below, solo all instances and not fight anything over Enforcer.
Healing and debuffing IS NOT THE SAME as Crowd Control. Just because the specs proc doesn't mean it is Crowd Control, it is merely a by product of a failed mechanic/a mechanic that doesn't work on Super Villains and above.
What I find hilarious is that Manipulator is meant to grant us access to hold Super Villains and it doesn't do this with ALL holding powers.
... Healing and debuffing IS NOT THE SAME as Crowd Control. Just because the specs proc doesn't mean it is Crowd Control, it is merely a by product of a failed mechanic/a mechanic that doesn't work on Super Villains and above. ...
It may not be disabling the enemy, but CCs can still provide meaningful support for yourself and the team via spec options even against SV+ mobs. Which to me means CCs *are* useful even against SV+ enemies. That's the point I'm making. Just because CCs don't actually disable SV+ mobs does not make CCs useless against SV+ enemies because of spec options.
I see CC as a part of support, along with buffing, debuffing and healing. Since I view CC powers as support it does not bother me when mobs are immune to the actual control aspect so long as the power can still provide support.
I know you and some others would rather CCs actually work against SV+ mobs if specced for it, but until there's a big CC review (and likely sweeping boss changes) that is extremely unlikely outside of bugged powers.
It may not be disabling the enemy, but CCs can still provide meaningful support for yourself and the team via spec options even against SV+ mobs. Which to me means CCs *are* useful even against SV+ enemies. That's the point I'm making. Just because CCs don't actually disable SV+ mobs does not make CCs useless against SV+ enemies because of spec options.
Since you acknowledge this you may want to re word what you are saying about CC. It is the debuffs themselves not the actual CC which is making them "viable".
CC in itself is not viable vs bosses because the primary mechanic aka the control, is not working on them.
It would be like me saying Conviction is a great HEALING POWER, when all it actually does is boost max HP by 15%. And then saying "Just because Conviction doesn't heal you, the fact that it doesn't carry out it's primary mechanic doesn't make it a bad healing power."
(Ofc this is not the case, but for the sake of argument this example was used. For the purpose of this example we'll say that Conviction doesn't heal you for some reason, but in actual fact we all know it does.)
Spec options should NOT be the "saving grace" of any mechanic. Hell it doesn't even "save" CC, so please don't make out like CC is useful in boss situations. The debuffs are by products of the CC effect, but are not the actual CC.
I see CC as a part of support, along with buffing, debuffing and healing. Since I view CC powers as support it does not bother me when mobs are immune to the actual control aspect so long as the power can still provide support.
Yes CC is support, its a shame it only "supports" against Henchmen to Enforcer though. Anything above that and it falls into debuffing category and is no longer CC.
That bothers me. I should be able to create builds which differentiate between CC and Debuffing. Ebon Sigils for Debuffing? Yes please. Ego Sleep for Debuffing? What?! The by product/secondary effect of the power is not a CC, its a debuff.
I know you and some others would rather CCs actually work against SV+ mobs if specced for it, but until there's a big CC review (and likely sweeping boss changes) that is extremely unlikely outside of bugged powers.
Oh I am well aware. I just find it a crying shame.
I'm curious where you got that idea. I don't see anything like that in the power description.
Run a CC build, take Manipulator and run Ego Storm + MM advantage. Super Villains can be held but only for a VERY short time. This effect is intermittent only works some times.
You'd have to ask Jay about the details, however I have locked down a Super Villain rank opponent before with both Ego Sleep and Ego Storm, even if only for a few moments.
I do not make the distinction CC (actually disabling a mob) and CC powers since you cannot separate the two. Since CC powers still allow for team support in boss fights I find they are often more useful than Iniquity. I've yet to see anyone complain about Iniquity. Why the fuss over CC?
You said it did, "nothing," in specific circumstances. That is what Falchoin responded to. Proccing specs that provide a benefit is not, "nothing."
Again. The CC itself does nothing. The primary purpose of Ego Sleep is to...apply Sleep.
Any debuff applied afterwards is not the primary purpose of the power.
Debuffing in CO is not the same as holding a foe. They may both be grouped under the same thing aka Support. But saying the Debuffs and the CC are the same thing is like saying Healing and Debuffing is the same thing.
Specs, as I said, should NOT be the saving grace for any power. Sadly in the case of CC the DEBUFFS provided are its "saving graces" so to speak.
So whilst the CC does nothing the secondary components which are non CC come into play, namely the debuffs.
So when you think about it, the primary control doesn't work, but the debuffing does. So yes the CC itself does nothing.
I do not make the distinction CC (actually disabling a mob) and CC powers since you cannot separate the two. Since CC powers still allow for team support in boss fights I find they are often more useful than Iniquity. I've yet to see anyone complain about Iniquity. Why the fuss over CC?
The only real use for CC powers is something that has nothing to do with CC.
That's where the distinction comes in, and also why the distinction is relevant.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
...So when you think about it, the primary control doesn't work, but the debuffing does. So yes the CC itself does nothing.
Or you could say because of the CC a debuff is applied as well. This would mean the CC applies debuffs instead of controlling. That sounds like something to me.
I see CC as a part of support, along with buffing, debuffing and healing. Since I view CC powers as support it does not bother me when mobs are immune to the actual control aspect so long as the power can still provide support.
I know you and some others would rather CCs actually work against SV+ mobs if specced for it, but until there's a big CC review (and likely sweeping boss changes) that is extremely unlikely outside of bugged powers.
Most games don't let you control high-level bosses at all -- Controller types usually default to buffing and debuffing when control is down. The problem was that in CO the mentalist class didn't have any access to good debuffs unless they went outside of the set.
Ravenforce is actually one of my favorite people in the game. I along with him share a love of CC characters and powers. But let's be real -- most games don't let you CC their high level NPC's. Sure it was possible in City of Heroes -- but only for brief periods. And while that was nice it was a RARITY.
What controllers and doms in COH had to rely when CC didn't work were two things debuffs and damage. The telepathy gives strict Mentalist access to both within the set. So our telepaths, telekinetics, and ego bladers can access the debuffs if they need them.
While these powers need some tweaking and are admittedly buggy -- they do work. I've tested and tested. I think they make a difference in team and solo content.
Don't get me wrong -- I want to see a CC review and I want the new powers to get some love so they are in a more finished state. But they really aren't as bad as some have made it seem. They are not perfect and I agree with Ravenforce tthat they need improvement. We've even chatted in game about where we agree and disagree. I just don't think the situation is as extreme as some other crowd control fans feel.
My suggestions:
- Please take the negative damage resistance of Master of the Mind. As it stands one of the coolest looking powers in the game is highly situational. If you have aggro at all -- using it equals instant death. It can be used but mostly only in teams where enough aggro is being taken by the melee types.
- The stacking of the debuffs is meager. I think the debuff value should be per player. The suggestion has been to make them work similar to bleeds -- which seems fair and reasonable to me.
- The energy costs of the powers is really high. I can get good results by building for energy -- but its far from ideal
It would help if there was ever a reason to CC. In 100% of cases it's better to just rush in and aoe the crap out of everything. If you try to use CC and carefully avoid hitting CC'd targets, you're just making the fight take longer, there's zero tactical benefit to it.
Before they can fix what's wrong with CC, they need to structure fights so that there is a benefit to using CC. There is in fact a way to tune fights so that CC is a huge benefit without being necessary.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
the question I have is
WHY THE HELL do they have crit and crit severity as the scaling stats for
mental Leech and Shadow of doubt.?
why can't they have a primary stat like other powers rather than a secondary.
Or you could say because of the CC a debuff is applied as well. This would mean the CC applies debuffs instead of controlling. That sounds like something to me.
But it then becomes a debuff. Not an actual CC. I don't need to explain the distinction any further, I'm pretty sure you know what I mean, but do not wish to acknowledge it.
But it then becomes a debuff. Not an actual CC. I don't need to explain the distinction any further, I'm pretty sure you know what I mean, but do not wish to acknowledge it.
I have acknowledged it, back when I brought it up in the first place. I just don't care since I see the CC powers as support. Since they can provide meaningful support, even against SV+ enemies, the distinction is meaningless to me.
Thunderclap on my main's build sees *way* more use than Iniquity, even during boss fights. 10% resist debuffs and healing procs for friendlies in an AoE even if the 9 second stun doesn't work against SV+ mobs is too good to pass up.
It seems you'd don't believe Jaybezz's "CCs are debuffs" despite posting in the thread and even suggesting one of the very debuffs Crush implemented in place of interrupts: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=226051
No, see, that's why I am correct. Without specs, CC does nothing against high-end mobs. So they're guaranteed do nothing against high-end mobs until level 10, when you get ohwaitsuperstatspecnevermind they are actually guaranteed to do nothing against high-end mobs until level 20 when waitcanyouactuallypickaspecthatmakesCCdoanythingbeforetier2...
CC inherently does nothing against high-end opponents. Thus, certain CC powers - pure CC powers without damage ticks, to be precise - are the only powers in the game that inherently do absolutely nothing to certain opponents. That's piss-poor game design and only a fool would argue that specs make this perfectly alright, considering the game was up and running for well over 2 years before those were even introduced. With CC doing, that's right, nothing.
No, see, that's why I am correct. Without specs, CC does nothing against high-end mobs. So they're guaranteed do nothing against high-end mobs until level 10, when you get ohwaitsuperstatspecnevermind they are actually guaranteed to do nothing against high-end mobs until level 20 when waitcanyouactuallypickaspecthatmakesCCdoanythingbeforetier2...
Depends on the CC you're using. Ego Sleep can disorient and fear on tap even SV+ enemies. The specs just make it (and other CC abilities) even better.
...CC inherently does nothing against high-end opponents. Thus, certain CC powers - pure CC powers without damage ticks, to be precise - are the only powers in the game that inherently do absolutely nothing to certain opponents. That's piss-poor game design and only a fool would argue that specs make this perfectly alright, considering the game was up and running for well over 2 years before those were even introduced. With CC doing, that's right, nothing.
As mentioned before, other CCs have built in debuffs. Iniquity does absolutely nothing against any opponent when soloing on a non-pet build. One could even argue that healing/defensive powers in general are a waste vs trash mobs since they'll die before being is needed. Does that make them a product of "piss-poor game design" since they're not universally useful?
Now, I wouldn't mind if CO could get to a point where it is possible to stun/paralyze/incap a SV+ enemy but I do not see that happening for a very long time. The debuffs built into the CCs and from specs make the current system bearable if not good enough.
Sigh.. Since the only people that post are butthurt people that can't appreciate an addition to the game because it doesn't fit their holy expectations it looks like no one likes the game. Whenever anything is changed/added/removed all cryptic gets is FAK U, and when they don't do anything it's the same. New telepathy powers are fine by me. Yeah. They involve a synergy much like TK lance does etc.. and they're a good aoe damage source. Oh I can't put a mega destroid to sleep who cares. You can't see the good part of things and you keep complaining about that specific CC part.. You wanted a telepathy review well you got it. Can we move on now ? You're like the kid that gets mad because the super expensive remote control car he got for his birthday is red instead of blue, well reading forums is depressing at the moment. I'll make a telepath character and be happy with it, thank you very much cryptic.
Also almost nobody said a thing about the costume fixes that everyone was asking for. Well there it is, thanks for the costume fixes, and thanks for the throwing blades fix. To all the peeps that say "boohoo now throwing blades is horrible zomg gimme retcon" it's still better than most AoE's in other powersets, so no. And I see that this gamehobo dude got banned or quit I don't know well good, he didn't make anything better and helped the forum atmosphere getting more and more off putting. I wish more of you non constructive folks quit.
Note : I'm not saying you need to put on pink glasses and smile at everything cryptic throws at you, but if you're going to point out the bad things you also need to point out the good things, and making your suggestions look like insults won't help anything.
Other note : Meh.. I'm grumpy now. I know not all of that was perfectly correct grammar wise, excuse that.
Now, I wouldn't mind if CO could get to a point where it is possible to stun/paralyze/incap a SV+ enemy but I do not see that happening for a very long time. The debuffs built into the CCs and from specs make the current system bearable if not good enough.
You can apply incapaciderps Super Villain Rank foes. Try it out in Nemcon.
Sigh.. Since the only people that post are butthurt people that can't appreciate an addition to the game because it doesn't fit their holy expectations it looks like no one likes the game.
I'll just comment on a few things...I LOVE this game. Honestly I do. I do not like being marginalized because I choose to use CC, but it happens and I have been reduced to a debuffer level, I am currently making do with what I have, which is debuffs.
It becomes very difficult to appreciate something when it is SO bugged your attacks HEAL your foes, granted in PvP but still.
Personally I have waited almost an entire YEAR to play my main character. After posting reams of feedback, I get buggy powers, misinformation spreading tooltips, a passive which doesn't apply defense penetration past initial hit and DoTs which do not obey the basic mechanics of combat (aka they can be dodged). I highly doubt more popular power set players, such as Might, Martial Arts or Gadgeteering would wait 10 months to use new powers for their main character. They most likely would have quit.
Whenever anything is changed/added/removed all cryptic gets is FAK U, and when they don't do anything it's the same. New telepathy powers are fine by me. Yeah. They involve a synergy much like TK lance does etc.. and they're a good aoe damage source.
I just think its a pity that these powers couldn't be something more than DPS attacks, granted they apply debuffs which are supportive, but it would be nicer if they had more of a control element to them. But yes the damage stack + Detonate is a good mechanic. Pity other people can detonate my stacks...
Oh I can't put a mega destroid to sleep who cares. You can't see the good part of things and you keep complaining about that specific CC part..
You never could and these powers weren't designed to make this possible. If you thought these powers were designed (as the originally were) to make CC as a pure mechanic more viable in all content then you have misunderstood what they actually are for. Namely Debuffing and DPS. I can see the value behind debuffing, I have a toon who does debuff and now through a certain turn of events I now have another.
You're like the kid that gets mad because the super expensive remote control car he got for his birthday is red instead of blue
I disagree, I'm more like the kid who is promised a pretty dolls house, asks for it and as I get further in unwrapping it I get something totally different which is not what I saw, so I get mad, then simmer down and realise, at least it still vaguely resembles a dolls house.
well reading forums is depressing at the moment. I'll make a telepath character and be happy with it, thank you very much cryptic.
Forums are always depressing after a release or bug fix or addition or content removal or pretty much anything. The best you can do is wait for them to be fixed/buffed/nerfed/re-added.
It's not all bad though, I guess as long as I don't team up or fight anything above Super Villain Rank, I can continue the illusion of being a controller in CO.
Comments
Right from the Turtle's mouth, the Throwing Blades fix is indefinitely temporary. They might be able to actually fix it later, or they might never be able to fix it at all. Schrodinger's Bug!
That being said, I'm still using it because it is passable with Night Warrior's charge time reduction, but it's still a right pain in the butt to use. Good luck to anyone else trying to use it though!
No, it's not, because it does NOTHING against Supervillains (and up).
If there had ever been a competent designer giving things about half a second's worth of thought working on this game, they would've figured a superhero should be able to stun/hold/whatever a supervillain about as well as the other way round, right?
CC has been one of the game's EPIC FAILS from day 1, with every mook (that has a CC ability, obviously) being better at CCing a superhero than a superhero is at CC a supervillain. Makes you feel real super heroic, right?
Just toss it in the recycle bin. They dont care
And this is where you're wrong.
With the crowd control specs you're debuffing damage resistance and/or damage dealt by the affected mob. If you're using Sentinel Mastery you're providing healing. That's far from nothing in my opinion.
How about Iniquity? It's arguably the best heal for allies in the game. It cannot be used on foes or be cast on self. This means while I'm soloing (and even the majority of the groups I find myself in) Iniquity on my hotbar is a complete waste of a power pick and 4 advantage points. Yet, it is very nice to have and can be extremely useful other times.
CC is much the same, except it is never completely useless like Iniquity so long as you spec for the debuffs from CC.
Time to go level my new telepath.
fun with sleep, sprites and other annoying DOTs
everyone have fun, in whatever way you can
and remember the golden rule
Either be good or at least try not to get caught
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CC is viable if you want to participate in Alert Level missions and below, solo all instances and not fight anything over Enforcer.
Healing and debuffing IS NOT THE SAME as Crowd Control. Just because the specs proc doesn't mean it is Crowd Control, it is merely a by product of a failed mechanic/a mechanic that doesn't work on Super Villains and above.
What I find hilarious is that Manipulator is meant to grant us access to hold Super Villains and it doesn't do this with ALL holding powers.
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I see CC as a part of support, along with buffing, debuffing and healing. Since I view CC powers as support it does not bother me when mobs are immune to the actual control aspect so long as the power can still provide support.
I know you and some others would rather CCs actually work against SV+ mobs if specced for it, but until there's a big CC review (and likely sweeping boss changes) that is extremely unlikely outside of bugged powers.
I'm curious where you got that idea. I don't see anything like that in the power description.
Since you acknowledge this you may want to re word what you are saying about CC. It is the debuffs themselves not the actual CC which is making them "viable".
CC in itself is not viable vs bosses because the primary mechanic aka the control, is not working on them.
It would be like me saying Conviction is a great HEALING POWER, when all it actually does is boost max HP by 15%. And then saying "Just because Conviction doesn't heal you, the fact that it doesn't carry out it's primary mechanic doesn't make it a bad healing power."
(Ofc this is not the case, but for the sake of argument this example was used. For the purpose of this example we'll say that Conviction doesn't heal you for some reason, but in actual fact we all know it does.)
Spec options should NOT be the "saving grace" of any mechanic. Hell it doesn't even "save" CC, so please don't make out like CC is useful in boss situations. The debuffs are by products of the CC effect, but are not the actual CC.
Yes CC is support, its a shame it only "supports" against Henchmen to Enforcer though. Anything above that and it falls into debuffing category and is no longer CC.
That bothers me. I should be able to create builds which differentiate between CC and Debuffing. Ebon Sigils for Debuffing? Yes please. Ego Sleep for Debuffing? What?! The by product/secondary effect of the power is not a CC, its a debuff.
Oh I am well aware. I just find it a crying shame.
Run a CC build, take Manipulator and run Ego Storm + MM advantage. Super Villains can be held but only for a VERY short time. This effect is intermittent only works some times.
You'd have to ask Jay about the details, however I have locked down a Super Villain rank opponent before with both Ego Sleep and Ego Storm, even if only for a few moments.
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That may be the answer to your own question. You do not make a distinction.
I was making a distinction between debuffing and CC. That's why I can see the issue.
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You said it did, "nothing," in specific circumstances. That is what Falchoin responded to. Proccing specs that provide a benefit is not, "nothing."
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Again. The CC itself does nothing. The primary purpose of Ego Sleep is to...apply Sleep.
Any debuff applied afterwards is not the primary purpose of the power.
Debuffing in CO is not the same as holding a foe. They may both be grouped under the same thing aka Support. But saying the Debuffs and the CC are the same thing is like saying Healing and Debuffing is the same thing.
Specs, as I said, should NOT be the saving grace for any power. Sadly in the case of CC the DEBUFFS provided are its "saving graces" so to speak.
So whilst the CC does nothing the secondary components which are non CC come into play, namely the debuffs.
So when you think about it, the primary control doesn't work, but the debuffing does. So yes the CC itself does nothing.
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The only real use for CC powers is something that has nothing to do with CC.
That's where the distinction comes in, and also why the distinction is relevant.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Or you could say because of the CC a debuff is applied as well. This would mean the CC applies debuffs instead of controlling. That sounds like something to me.
Most games don't let you control high-level bosses at all -- Controller types usually default to buffing and debuffing when control is down. The problem was that in CO the mentalist class didn't have any access to good debuffs unless they went outside of the set.
Ravenforce is actually one of my favorite people in the game. I along with him share a love of CC characters and powers. But let's be real -- most games don't let you CC their high level NPC's. Sure it was possible in City of Heroes -- but only for brief periods. And while that was nice it was a RARITY.
What controllers and doms in COH had to rely when CC didn't work were two things debuffs and damage. The telepathy gives strict Mentalist access to both within the set. So our telepaths, telekinetics, and ego bladers can access the debuffs if they need them.
While these powers need some tweaking and are admittedly buggy -- they do work. I've tested and tested. I think they make a difference in team and solo content.
Don't get me wrong -- I want to see a CC review and I want the new powers to get some love so they are in a more finished state. But they really aren't as bad as some have made it seem. They are not perfect and I agree with Ravenforce tthat they need improvement. We've even chatted in game about where we agree and disagree. I just don't think the situation is as extreme as some other crowd control fans feel.
My suggestions:
- Please take the negative damage resistance of Master of the Mind. As it stands one of the coolest looking powers in the game is highly situational. If you have aggro at all -- using it equals instant death. It can be used but mostly only in teams where enough aggro is being taken by the melee types.
- The stacking of the debuffs is meager. I think the debuff value should be per player. The suggestion has been to make them work similar to bleeds -- which seems fair and reasonable to me.
- The energy costs of the powers is really high. I can get good results by building for energy -- but its far from ideal
Before they can fix what's wrong with CC, they need to structure fights so that there is a benefit to using CC. There is in fact a way to tune fights so that CC is a huge benefit without being necessary.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
WHY THE HELL do they have crit and crit severity as the scaling stats for
mental Leech and Shadow of doubt.?
why can't they have a primary stat like other powers rather than a secondary.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But it then becomes a debuff. Not an actual CC. I don't need to explain the distinction any further, I'm pretty sure you know what I mean, but do not wish to acknowledge it.
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Thunderclap on my main's build sees *way* more use than Iniquity, even during boss fights. 10% resist debuffs and healing procs for friendlies in an AoE even if the 9 second stun doesn't work against SV+ mobs is too good to pass up.
It seems you'd don't believe Jaybezz's "CCs are debuffs" despite posting in the thread and even suggesting one of the very debuffs Crush implemented in place of interrupts: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=226051
No, see, that's why I am correct. Without specs, CC does nothing against high-end mobs. So they're guaranteed do nothing against high-end mobs until level 10, when you get ohwaitsuperstatspecnevermind they are actually guaranteed to do nothing against high-end mobs until level 20 when waitcanyouactuallypickaspecthatmakesCCdoanythingbeforetier2...
CC inherently does nothing against high-end opponents. Thus, certain CC powers - pure CC powers without damage ticks, to be precise - are the only powers in the game that inherently do absolutely nothing to certain opponents. That's piss-poor game design and only a fool would argue that specs make this perfectly alright, considering the game was up and running for well over 2 years before those were even introduced. With CC doing, that's right, nothing.
As mentioned before, other CCs have built in debuffs. Iniquity does absolutely nothing against any opponent when soloing on a non-pet build. One could even argue that healing/defensive powers in general are a waste vs trash mobs since they'll die before being is needed. Does that make them a product of "piss-poor game design" since they're not universally useful?
Now, I wouldn't mind if CO could get to a point where it is possible to stun/paralyze/incap a SV+ enemy but I do not see that happening for a very long time. The debuffs built into the CCs and from specs make the current system bearable if not good enough.
Also almost nobody said a thing about the costume fixes that everyone was asking for. Well there it is, thanks for the costume fixes, and thanks for the throwing blades fix. To all the peeps that say "boohoo now throwing blades is horrible zomg gimme retcon" it's still better than most AoE's in other powersets, so no. And I see that this gamehobo dude got banned or quit I don't know well good, he didn't make anything better and helped the forum atmosphere getting more and more off putting. I wish more of you non constructive folks quit.
Note : I'm not saying you need to put on pink glasses and smile at everything cryptic throws at you, but if you're going to point out the bad things you also need to point out the good things, and making your suggestions look like insults won't help anything.
Other note : Meh.. I'm grumpy now. I know not all of that was perfectly correct grammar wise, excuse that.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
You can apply incapaciderps Super Villain Rank foes. Try it out in Nemcon.
I'll just comment on a few things...I LOVE this game. Honestly I do. I do not like being marginalized because I choose to use CC, but it happens and I have been reduced to a debuffer level, I am currently making do with what I have, which is debuffs.
It becomes very difficult to appreciate something when it is SO bugged your attacks HEAL your foes, granted in PvP but still.
Personally I have waited almost an entire YEAR to play my main character. After posting reams of feedback, I get buggy powers, misinformation spreading tooltips, a passive which doesn't apply defense penetration past initial hit and DoTs which do not obey the basic mechanics of combat (aka they can be dodged). I highly doubt more popular power set players, such as Might, Martial Arts or Gadgeteering would wait 10 months to use new powers for their main character. They most likely would have quit.
I just think its a pity that these powers couldn't be something more than DPS attacks, granted they apply debuffs which are supportive, but it would be nicer if they had more of a control element to them. But yes the damage stack + Detonate is a good mechanic. Pity other people can detonate my stacks...
You never could and these powers weren't designed to make this possible. If you thought these powers were designed (as the originally were) to make CC as a pure mechanic more viable in all content then you have misunderstood what they actually are for. Namely Debuffing and DPS. I can see the value behind debuffing, I have a toon who does debuff and now through a certain turn of events I now have another.
A review? For Telepathy? That would require a Crowd Control Pass. So until we get one of those, you cannot call 6 additions a "review".
I disagree, I'm more like the kid who is promised a pretty dolls house, asks for it and as I get further in unwrapping it I get something totally different which is not what I saw, so I get mad, then simmer down and realise, at least it still vaguely resembles a dolls house.
Forums are always depressing after a release or bug fix or addition or content removal or pretty much anything. The best you can do is wait for them to be fixed/buffed/nerfed/re-added.
It's not all bad though, I guess as long as I don't team up or fight anything above Super Villain Rank, I can continue the illusion of being a controller in CO.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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