Doesn't Throwing Blades also have a broken tap VS charge damage thing? Where tap spamming it (Normally mind you, no superspeed.) outdoes multiple fully charged shots, unlike every single other power in the game that charges?
It was either TB or Ricochet Shot...Or something. One of the boomerang powers. They all make the same silly animation and have the same projectile so really.
It might be usable but it's still a 'why bother?' power compared to Ricochet Throw now.
This is true for most decisions in Champions Online or plenty of freeform systems. You'll always have a "why bother" aspect of choice. Why would you bother investing in anything other than crits? Why would you bother with any other Claw power aside from Dragon's Claws? Why go Might when Martial Arts Unarmed is faster and does more damage in general? Why would you bother tanking with anything other than Devour Essence? Why bother with melee when you can range DPS to more effect?
There will always be superior choices, and I'm not even talking about FotM PvP builds. CO's system is much like a pen and paper system, where people always using the most maxed out most effective option is avoided by the gaming group coming to an agreement. There is no "gaming group" or GM that will limit you CO, so there is no one stopping you in using the most effective option or variant.
However, on the upside, there is no PvE content that demands you use anything outside of your comfort zone. If you go for the less effective option that you prefer aesthetically more, you aren't going to be penalized, unless you compare your performance to other players. The only times you will be penalized is fighting Cosmics for drops or playing PvP. I have no solution for Cosmics, but if you're avidly paying PvP, then you have three options:
1) Go the fighting game route and just deal with the fact that your character was nerfed;
2) Go the fighting game route #2 and jump ship and go to the character build that's superior;
3) Go the trading card game route and tweak your deck/build.
It's an online game, it gets updated constantly, things change. Oh boy do things change... I played Might because it was fun, despite it being crap at first. Then they buffed it and I was happy. Then they buffed other sets more but I didn't mind. Then my build fell apart and I had to completely and utterly change my playstyle and approach to my main character. Then I dropped it for another set, but ended up coming back.
I have basically been iterating on my character's capabilities ever since I started playing in January 2010. Sometimes it was frustrating, sometimes it was rewarding. Sometimes I wanted to yell at the Devs (and I did).
They obviously have their idea of how the game should be balanced or worked. Maybe there are backend reasons they cannot do stuff, maybe they're thinking longterm. I am not sure if this was intentional, but ironically, I now have more Might powers in my arsenal than I did in 2010. Funny, considering I've never complained about Might as much as I did the past year.
So, what I'm getting at is that powers change, sometimes to people's liking and sometimes not. If you are not enjoying the power anymore, change it. If you have no alternatives, learn to use it in the new way. It's just the nature of online games.
So, what I'm getting at is that powers change, sometimes to people's liking and sometimes not. If you are not enjoying the power anymore, change it. If you have no alternatives, learn to use it in the new way. It's just the nature of online games.
Bingo!
We have a winnah!
Yes, we are paying customers. But ultimately the only choice we have in it is whether or not we are willing to pay for what is being offered. We have no real say in what is offered to us.
Believing otherwise is like walking into Burger King and demanding that they sell you a taco. You can demand tacos all you want, but in the end you're getting a burger or you're going somewhere else.
And if they can't find exactly what's causing the bug? Or don't know how to fix it?
Have you ever coded a video game? More specifically, have you ever coded a video game that has new code added to it on a regular basis?
If you haven't, you have no business telling people who do it for a living how easy their job is. Sometimes that stuff isn't as obvious or easy to fix as the people who don't do it every day think it is.
That's like me walking into a mechanic's garage and telling him he should be able to rebuild my entire engine in less than an hour. Never mind that I've never done it myself. It's his job, and he should be able to meet every demand I make, right?
This shouldn't be taken as defending anyone. It's just common sense.
If you couldn't do someone's job yourself, you have no business whatsoever telling them how to do it.
My degree is in SOEN and in case you don't know, that stands for Software Engineering (not Computer Science). SO yes I can tell them what poor job they do because I know. Coding is coding and I recognize a hack fix any day. Considering they write code they can't fix tells me that either they a. Don't have sufficient knowledge b. Have a very poor architecture c. Inadequate documentation d. Insufficient testing (QA). Not knowing how to fix something is not an excuse.
So again, who are you to tell me I can't comment on this?
What do you know of coding methodologies and principles?
My degree is in SOEN and in case you don't know, that stands for Software Engineering (not Computer Science). SO yes I can tell them what poor job they do because I know. Coding is coding and I recognize a hack fix any day. Considering they write code they can't fix tells me that either they a. Don't have sufficient knowledge b. Have a very poor architecture c. Inadequate documentation d. Insufficient testing (QA). Not knowing how to fix something is not an excuse.
So again, who are you to tell me I can't comment on this?
What do you know of coding methodologies and principles?
Thought so :rolleyes:
They've already said the game was held together with duct-tape, so it's b.
Or, they first investigated the bug and then decided they should also modify the power, not just fix the bug. You may have a degree in SOEN, but you aren't psychic (I think). We can only speculate, really.
My degree is in SOEN and in case you don't know, that stands for Software Engineering (not Computer Science). SO yes I can tell them what poor job they do because I know. Coding is coding and I recognize a hack fix any day. Considering they write code they can't fix tells me that either they a. Don't have sufficient knowledge b. Have a very poor architecture c. Inadequate documentation d. Insufficient testing (QA). Not knowing how to fix something is not an excuse.
So again, who are you to tell me I can't comment on this?
What do you know of coding methodologies and principles?
Thought so :rolleyes:
And I was supposed to know that how exactly? Does your computer screen tell you that *I* have a degree in Sound Engineering? I could tell you what an engineer did wrong on practically any audio recording you play for me, and I could tell you how to correct it in a re-master. It isn't at all relevant to this discussion, but it illustrates my point that there is no way you could have known I know all that.
You know as well as I do that there are a LOT of people out there who talk out of their butts when it comes to how easy something is to fix in a game. In fact, if you really have that degree you should know that better than I do. You said nothing in this thread to give me any indication you were any different.
Something else to consider:
It is very probable that the people working on the game now are not the ones who wrote the code in the first place.
I see it as being somewhat similar to building a house. I've seen a number of cases where a contractor comes in for a remodel and realizes that they can't do anything about what they came there to fix, because the person who originally built it did it in such a way that fixing a poorly built structure would destroy something else.
Not quite the same thing, but I'm pretty sure the same kind of thing can and does happen with code.
So, is their inability to fix it because of their own incompetence, or did the last people to work on it make it so they couldn't fix it without tearing something else apart too?
Given the choice of
1) Put together a fix that solves the problem in a clumsy way that works.
-or-
2) Re-write large chunks of code and risk breaking it worse because you don't know what the last guy did in there.
.....and you have a deadline of, say, a week to have a solution ready.
Which do you choose?
Edit: Also worth noting is that I used the word "if" in both instances. "If you haven't" and "If you couldn't". Don't get so defensive, and don't say I said something when it is clear in the quote you posted that I didn't.
And I was supposed to know that how exactly? Does your computer screen tell you that *I* have a degree in Sound Engineering? I could tell you what an engineer did wrong on practically any audio recording you play for me, and I could tell you how to correct it in a re-master. It isn't at all relevant to this discussion, but it illustrates my point that there is no way you could have known I know all that.
You know as well as I do that there are a LOT of people out there who talk out of their butts when it comes to how easy something is to fix in a game. In fact, if you really have that degree you should know that better than I do. You said nothing in this thread to give me any indication you were any different.
Something else to consider:
It is very probable that the people working on the game now are not the ones who wrote the code in the first place.
I see it as being somewhat similar to building a house. I've seen a number of cases where a contractor comes in for a remodel and realizes that they can't do anything about what they came there to fix, because the person who originally built it did it in such a way that fixing a poorly built structure would destroy something else.
Not quite the same thing, but I'm pretty sure the same kind of thing can and does happen with code.
So, is their inability to fix it because of their own incompetence, or did the last people to work on it make it so they couldn't fix it without tearing something else apart too?
Given the choice of
1) Put together a fix that solves the problem in a clumsy way that works.
-or-
2) Re-write large chunks of code and risk breaking it worse because you don't know what the last guy did in there.
.....and you have a deadline of, say, a week to have a solution ready.
Which do you choose?
Edit: Also worth noting is that I used the word "if" in both instances. "If you haven't" and "If you couldn't". Don't get so defensive, and don't say I said something when it is clear in the quote you posted that I didn't.
If you don't know what I know then don't assume you do. Saying "if" does not even in the slightest change the tone of your writing. When you wrote it you assumed I did not know what I was talking about. That is evident since most of your post was about me not knowing how difficult or problematic development is. On this note lets just end it here. Don't start an argument regarding software development with me because if you are a Sound Engineer then, as a professional, you should know that you don't have the expertise in this domain. (as I would not talk about sound)
I have reverse engineered code before so I know exactly what it entails and how difficult it is. Nevertheless, that is not an excuse for such a poorly done job. The issue is that, based on how Cryptic did thing up until now, they consider Throwing Blades as fixed so that's that. They won't touch it again. IF this was merely a temporary fix to prevent exploiting it then it would be different but it is NOT.
The same applies to Telepathy. The reason ppl are upset is because they know that there won't be any development on it anymore since once something goes LIVE it remains the way it is for an indefinite amount of time.
So yes I know what I am talking about bot in terms of programming and in terms of being here for more than 1400days. As such, I have a good idea of how Cryptic operates and what a push to LIVE means for any piece of content they produce.
P.S: You can't be seriously accusing me of being defensive. This is my profession of course I know what I'm talking about. How would you react if someone would ask you if you know how difficult is to process/create/filter sound and make it seem as if you have no idea what you are talking about. Let's just agree that you did not know and end the accusations with that. Fair enough?
You expect a free respec on a power that is only supposed to do useful damage on a full charge.
[...]
The power was useful when tap spammed even without the exploit. This is a bandaid fix, and anyone who can't see that or tries to justify this """fix""" in any way whatsoever really just has their head up their ***.
I expect a free retcon for garbage bandaid fixes, yes. We should not have to pay for their mistakes.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
>_> this is just plain trolling. If you have a degree in Psychology then do a psychoanalysis on why exactly you felt that you HAD to mention that. :rolleyes:
Not going to quote the entire post, just the part I'm specifically replying to.
How would react if someone would ask you if you know how difficult is to process/create/filter sound and make it seem as if you have no idea what you are talking about.
If I had not mentioned being a sound engineer myself, it wouldn't bother me. To be perfectly honest.
And I'm not going to mislead you. I do have a degree in sound engineering, but I don't do it for a living at the moment. I would like to, but jobs in the field are scarce in my area and I'm currently unwilling to relocate.
It may not be entirely fair, but assuming that most people don't know what they are talking about is my default stance, until I have reason to believe otherwise. Some people might find it insulting, but it saves me from making mistakes due to listening to someone I shouldn't have while assuming their advice was sound.
Since I view things that way, I don't expect people to give ME the benefit of the doubt either. To behave otherwise would be hypocritical.
Let's just agree that you did not know and end the accusations with that. Fair enough?
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I've just seen a whole lot of people making assumptions on things they aren't qualified to make assumptions on, and up until your response I had no reason to believe you were not one of them yourself. I'll take your word for it that you know your stuff and I stand corrected on that matter.
>_> this is just plain trolling. If you have a degree in Psychology then do a psychoanalysis on why exactly you felt that you HAD to mention that. :rolleyes:
A little less ranting, a little more self-reflection and a sense of humour would do you a world of good. Also, be careful how you throw the "T" word around.
Now take two of these and take a nap. Repeat if symptoms persist
And thus expertly spoken by someone that expected god damage and the idea of 'support' is running dps in the support role. That's totally support right? /sarcasm
You then have to take into account that these powers can be used in ANY role, including the passive.
Yet, it's a sin to expect good damage without using 2GM?
However if you want to Support anything go do PvP, with the healing you'll provide the opposing forces with, they'll love you. Trust me.
A little less ranting, a little more self-reflection and a sense of humour would do you a world of good. Also, be careful how you throw the "T" word around.
Now take two of these and take a nap. Repeat if symptoms persist
Why exactly am I supposed to take your comment with humor? I don't find it amusing. Oh and don't patronize me alright.
The "T" word was not thrown around at all. Your comment was utterly unhelpful and besides the point of the discussion I had with that person or the topic of this thread. The only thing you were doing is belittling the both of us. You are a troll, that much is evident.
P.S: Suggesting that someone would need therapy (contacting a Psychologist) because they made a post is utterly ridiculous. You are probably the one who needs therapy.
Why exactly am I supposed to take your comment with humor? I don't find it amusing. Oh and don't patronize me alright.
The "T" word was not thrown around at all. Your comment was utterly unhelpful and besides the point of the discussion I had with that person or the topic of this thread. The only thing you were doing is belittling the both of us. You are a troll, that much is evident.
Calm down and watch that nasty little tongue of yours.......a sense of humour was required.....maybe I should have known better
You seriously think that pretending it was all a "joke" makes it perfectly acceptable.
"nasty little tongue of yours" <-- What are you talking about and who do you think you are talking to me in that tone.
I suppose manners are something you have not been thought.
But no, please continue being a troll.
Journal, 11th of July 2013........Patient X's therapy is coming along as planned. I have, so far, uncovered aggression issues as well as a delusional-superiority syndrome. My initial attempt at using humour seems to have intensified his anger problem, but I feel we are arriving at the heart of his imbalance.
I have also tried the "parent technique", scolding him and confronting him vis-a vis his sociopathic behaviour, thereby uncovering a core of self-righteous indignation coupled with a transference of his psychiatric problems onto others.
Dare I hope to believe that I have found the patient that I have always sought, the "missing link" of man's mental evolution from ape to human being? I relish our future sessions......I will finally uncover the Rosetta Stone of Psychiatry and rub it in the face of those who always doubted me. Yes! You, Dr.Langstrom, you have always belittled my groundbreaking work! You and your cronies shall be unable to mock me soon!
Weeee Zone chats gonna be fun. So much delicious rage. :biggrin:
That soo wasn't necessary. Just cause your main wasn't rendered unplayable for almost a year, no need to laugh at those of us who have waited and ended up with absolute crap.
Having to hold the button for .42 seconds on top of its activation time is slower than other AoEs, not to mention the potential for misfires.
I'm sticking with what I want from the power, and I'd be more than happy to take a damage decrease across the board rather than having the off-chance to do 0 damage if my finger slips. No other power in the game has that effect.
That being said, there is no good thematic stand-in for it, so I think I'm stuck with the power.
Jounal, 11th of July 2013........Patient X's therapy is coming along as planned. I have, so far, uncovered aggression issues as well as a delusional-superiority syndrome. My initial attempt at using humour seems to have intensified his anger problem, but I feel we are arriving at the heart of his imbalance.
I have also tried the "parent technique", scolding him and confronting him vis-a vis his sociopathic behaviour, thereby uncovering a core of self-righteous indignation coupled with a transference of his psychiatric problems onto others.
Dare I hope to believe that I have found the patient that I have always sought, the "missing link" of man's mental evolution from ape to human being? I relish our future sessions......I will finally uncover the Rosetta Stone of Psychiatry and rub it in the face of those who always doubted me. Yes! You, Dr.Langstrom, you have always belittled my groundbreaking work! You and your cronies shall be unable to mock me soon!
MUAHAHAHAHA!
Seems like and autobiography to me. You show all the symptoms described.
I believe the intention was to cause humour. Since this has not succeeded please stop fighting...call a truce or something.
Raven, read the above and tell me what you think. I can be condescending, belittling and insulting people like he does while claiming it's all "fun and games" as well :rolleyes: (too bad the report button is gone) . It's a typical Troll gimmick, they just make is seem like they are joking. There is noting funny in being told to get therapy for making a forum post.
That soo wasn't necessary. Just cause your main wasn't rendered unplayable for almost a year, no need to laugh at those of us who have waited and ended up with absolute crap.
I beg to differ, two of my many alts have been rendered entirely playable for the last year!
It's only as bad as you guys keep making it. Seriously, when the term 'Mini-set' is heard, being done by a single person on their time off after we stole them away from another game, and THAT person probably had to steal away another for the grapical effects, what did you really expect? A full crowd control review, which it would need in order to make half your suggestions viable?
Nope. You get new powers. Go play with them in your dollhouse, like the rest of us.
I beg to differ, two of my many alts have been rendered entirely playable for the last year!
It's only as bad as you guys keep making it. Seriously, when the term 'Mini-set' is heard, being done by a single person on their time off after we stole them away from another game, and THAT person probably had to steal away another for the grapical effects, what did you really expect? A full crowd control review, which it would need in order to make half your suggestions viable?
Nope. You get new powers. Go play with them in your dollhouse, like the rest of us.
AFAIK GMC was CO, then got stolen, and we are trying to get him back.
It's a shame, that's all.
I'm sure you've read my latest suggestions right?:rolleyes: Of course you have, which is why these powers couldn't have interrupts in a similar fashion as Power Gauntlet...
These "new" powers have gotten progressively worse.
I just hope I don't ruin anyone's Boss battles (like Gravitar) by being on your team, I'll probably only add to the body count so I apologise in advance.
My Dollhouse was called Crowd Control, it go bulldozed by the On Alert Truck. So I can't play.
Oh yeah. Sekimen, CO is indeed "Why Bother? The Game", and things do change, and for the most part I'm happy with the changes that are happening. It's just that one power I really really liked using is going to be rendered useless due to a duct-tape fix (or it may have been the only fix they could feasibly do? we'll never know!) that's tempting me to completely shelf the character or turn the character into a melee-ranged hybrid in order to get SOME reliable AoE in there... or, just shelving the entire concept, buying a rename token and converting the character into a whole new character entirely. Throwing Blades is no longer fun to use, and it was a pretty large part of my playstyle, therefore the character has become unfun, and there are no suitable tweaks I can apply to this character, so the only options are to just deal with it or to jump ship.
A big part of me thinks that Throwing Blades is gonna be stuck the way it is from here on out too. Just look at the thread. It's pretty much just me and a couple of others trying to defend it, and we're getting snarked at by a few other people. As much as I don't like it, I think popular opinion is going to say that this Throwing Blades nerf was a great thing.
Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about that myself aside from toss out complaints, so... yeah. You've all already won, I guess.
Though I'm disturbed by the number of people who don't know anything about Throwing Blades aside from the fact that it was exploited to mow down Alert bosses and Cosmics...
... I'm taking away from the Telepathy discussion, aren't I?
I just hope I don't ruin anyone's Boss battles (like Gravitar) by being on your team, I'll probably only add to the body count so I apologise in advance.
Meh. Couldn't be any worse then most pugs. 'sides, I like the cut of your jib.
R0d, that was an interesting selective quote you chose to start your bickering with. Completely left out the bit about the psych "degree" being in "passive-aggressive behavior" - which was being exhibited by both parties.
Now, as regards the argument itself, while I have no degrees worth mentioning, I do have a few years' experience in the field - and I can assure you that maintaining the software of someone who isn't in the shop any more is no picnic, especially if it's insufficiently commented. I've regaled folks here with the story of the small error in one program at SAC HQ that resulted in every nuke in the inventory being targeted to 0 degrees latitude, 0 degrees longitude for a few days back in the early '80s.
Now picture an environment so spaghetti-coded that adding a module to one program can introduce an error of that level in a completely different program, running under another system (as in, say, adding the Nighthawk missions and completely shutting down the Chat systems). That's what the devs are working with here. It's not the simple, clean environment a textbook might lead you to expect. There are no easy fixes here.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
R0d, that was an interesting selective quote you chose to start your bickering with. Completely left out the bit about the psych "degree" being in "passive-aggressive behavior" - which was being exhibited by both parties.
Now, as regards the argument itself, while I have no degrees worth mentioning, I do have a few years' experience in the field - and I can assure you that maintaining the software of someone who isn't in the shop any more is no picnic, especially if it's insufficiently commented. I've regaled folks here with the story of the small error in one program at SAC HQ that resulted in every nuke in the inventory being targeted to 0 degrees latitude, 0 degrees longitude for a few days back in the early '80s.
Now picture an environment so spaghetti-coded that adding a module to one program can introduce an error of that level in a completely different program, running under another system (as in, say, adding the Nighthawk missions and completely shutting down the Chat systems). That's what the devs are working with here. It's not the simple, clean environment a textbook might lead you to expect. There are no easy fixes here.
As a novice programmer (Hey, I can make small, useless console applications in C! Please don't type %s in any of the input prompts, you might break something!) I can appreciate that keeping your code clean and clearly commented is more important than actually MAKING something. Knowing where something broke is extremely important, and that's why we have duct tape fixes on CO: it's hard to pinpoint where something broke.
Honestly? If they spent a month organizing all of CO's code and straightening the spaghetti, it still wouldn't be enough at this stage... in fact, that'd probably break everything.
that's right, i'm issuing a challenge to cryptic north. ;D
R0d, that was an interesting selective quote you chose to start your bickering with. Completely left out the bit about the psych "degree" being in "passive-aggressive behavior" - which was being exhibited by both parties.
Now, as regards the argument itself, while I have no degrees worth mentioning, I do have a few years' experience in the field - and I can assure you that maintaining the software of someone who isn't in the shop any more is no picnic, especially if it's insufficiently commented. I've regaled folks here with the story of the small error in one program at SAC HQ that resulted in every nuke in the inventory being targeted to 0 degrees latitude, 0 degrees longitude for a few days back in the early '80s.
Now picture an environment so spaghetti-coded that adding a module to one program can introduce an error of that level in a completely different program, running under another system (as in, say, adding the Nighthawk missions and completely shutting down the Chat systems). That's what the devs are working with here. It's not the simple, clean environment a textbook might lead you to expect. There are no easy fixes here.
Bickering eh? Fact is, me and that other guy had an argument (if you want to call it that) but we solved it among ourselves and moved on. There was no reason for someone else to butt in and act all "I have a Psych degree and I will now analyze you etc...". Also I don't need anyone on a forum to do a psych test on me or to suggest that I need therapy (yes I noticed he's a hypocrite). You can throw out accusations of passive-aggressive as much as you want but simply being angry or upset does not make you passive-aggressive.
As I mentioned before, I worked on projects like that as well. Had to reverse engineer an entire piece of software since there was no documentation and whoever worked on it was gone. The people who requested the software themselves did not know what features the software had or what they required it to do (go figure). Oh did I mention that the software did not work almost at all? It was full of errors. Bad system architecture, bad and incorrect database architecture, no comments and whatever documentation was there was wrong. Yeah it was bs, I still made it work and then some.
Incompetence or ignorance is not an excuse. You might want to find an excuse for them but to me, since they work in the same field, what I see is sheer incompetence. That is my professional opinion.
As I mentioned before I worked on projects like that as well. Had to reverse engineer an entire piece of software since there was no documentation and whoever worked on it was gone. The people who requested the software themselves did not know what features the software had or what they required it to do (go figure). Oh did I mention that the software did not work almost at all? It was full of errors. Bad system architecture, bad and incorrect database architecture, no comments and whatever documentation was there was wrong.
Journal, 11th of July 2013 (addendum).....Gott im Himmel!! I was previously under the impression that patient X was in complete denial of his deranged psyche, yet it appears that, at the very least, a part of his subconscious is aware of his psychological impediments. The quotation above, recorded from his last group session reveal this to me most evidently.
Note how the patient concocts a dream world where he is a functioning part of society...nothing could be futher from the truth! The whole story is, of course, utter fantasy, yet if we analyse the references to "software", we can see that the sick individual in question is undoubtedly reffering to his own damaged mind. "The software did not work at all..", "It was full of errors..", "Bad system architecture..", etc, etc.
Also, the "people who requested the software" is obviously a reference to me, as his doctor. This is so completely fascinating!
I must reach out to this pathetic creature, I must probe further...........
Rod, if you're such an expert "professional" in the field, Cryptic's hiring. Put your coding where your mouth is.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Rod, if you're such an expert "professional" in the field, Cryptic's hiring. Put your coding where your mouth is.
I work for a company with a Revenue greater than $200 Billion. Why would I ever give up my job for a worse one? (no offense to the ppl at Cryptic)
I could give them some advice, and it would be free on top but I doubt they would look at it. This section of the forum might as well be called "Recycle Bin" if you know what I mean.
Oh yeah. Sekimen, CO is indeed "Why Bother? The Game", and things do change, and for the most part I'm happy with the changes that are happening. It's just that one power I really really liked using is going to be rendered useless due to a duct-tape fix (or it may have been the only fix they could feasibly do? we'll never know!) that's tempting me to completely shelf the character or turn the character into a melee-ranged hybrid in order to get SOME reliable AoE in there... or, just shelving the entire concept, buying a rename token and converting the character into a whole new character entirely. Throwing Blades is no longer fun to use, and it was a pretty large part of my playstyle, therefore the character has become unfun, and there are no suitable tweaks I can apply to this character, so the only options are to just deal with it or to jump ship.
A big part of me thinks that Throwing Blades is gonna be stuck the way it is from here on out too. Just look at the thread. It's pretty much just me and a couple of others trying to defend it, and we're getting snarked at by a few other people. As much as I don't like it, I think popular opinion is going to say that this Throwing Blades nerf was a great thing.
Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about that myself aside from toss out complaints, so... yeah. You've all already won, I guess.
Though I'm disturbed by the number of people who don't know anything about Throwing Blades aside from the fact that it was exploited to mow down Alert bosses and Cosmics...
... I'm taking away from the Telepathy discussion, aren't I?
Been there before myself. My advice is to just move on. It's not worth stressing over, as depressing as it may be.
I work for a company with a Revenue greater than $200 Billion. Why would I ever give up my job for a worse one? (no offense to the ppl at Cryptic)
And you've got a hot girlfriend in Canada, right?
Never mind, we're done here...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Believing otherwise is like walking into Burger King and demanding that they sell you a taco. You can demand tacos all you want, but in the end you're getting a burger or you're going somewhere else.
I'm not sure that this analogy is applicable.
Wouldn't it be more like going into Burger King, getting a burger, sitting down to eat it, and having the manager come over to your table and replace your burger with a taco while offering to sell you a, "respec," taco into burger token ?
Doesn't Throwing Blades also have a broken tap VS charge damage thing? Where tap spamming it (Normally mind you, no superspeed.) outdoes multiple fully charged shots, unlike every single other power in the game that charges?
I was under the impression that tap spamming was better DPS, generally (though not necessarily for all powers), than charging at the cost of reduced energy efficiency.
Throwing Blades is still exploitable. The "fix" just made it so the dps isn't completely out of the ballpark and hitting the moon in the eye. My guess is the TB change was made as a stop-gap so a real fix could maybe be made sometime down the line.
I do not understand why people say CC is not viable. CC *is* viable if you build for it and use the CC specs. Those hoping for nu-telepathy to break the mould and allow hard CC on bosses were doomed to disappointment from the start as such things would require changes to every SV+ encounter in the game. Such a thing may happen someday, but it will not happen because of a mini-set power release.
Just because you do not like how something turned out does not mean it is bad or cannot work. I find it funny people complain about the new debuffs from the telepathy set (charge speed increase and cooldown time increase) saying how little effect they have when interrupts actually made LESS of an effect (if you point to that magical time on PTS when the interrupts were completely spammable and worked on everything re-read the above paragraph)! But I guess since it's not CC it doesn't matter.
As far as Psi Lash doing more dps than Shadow of Doubt... your point being? It's a DoT! Use Shadow of Doubt then toggle Psi Lash and bask in the glory of Psi Lash *and* Shadow of Doubt's dps and the debuffs from Shadow of Doubt.
None of the released powers, content, etc is perfect. Nor will it ever be perfect. None of it is exactly how I would have done it. Nor will it be exactly how I want it. None of that means it's the worst thing ever or that it can't work.
Well, I was going to make a longwinded comment but...Falchoin posted so I'll just point up there and say,"Yeah...that."
In addition...
Nightr0d: You are correct. if you're using powers which get redone/revamped/hack-fixed/whatever...you should get a free/forced retcon to adapt to those changes in the best way possible. That's just how it works here and when it doesn't...it should. Keep in mind I don't even use this power. I'm just going off of past examples. This is how it "should" work. You "should" get a retcon in some form.
Also, and I don't particularly like that this is the stance I must take, but we got new powers. We went from almost utter below maintenance mode levels to getting SOMETHING. it might not be the something some people wanted(which was kind of unrealistic) but it's something. I don't know if I buy into the hype engine that is the almighty "CRYPTIC NORTH" at the momment but they could turn out to be a positive. The sad, and usual, thing here is we have to wait longer to find out. Even if they do something amazing we might not ever know about it due to communication and stealth patching. This is simply the reality of the system.
In a nutshell I see this as a positive and an indifference. Yay we got new powers and now we can...uhm....er....a....roll a new alt to run the same stuff? Truth is, I might actually take this bread crumb and roll with it because it's something to do in CO. That is if I can force myself to run through Westside again. Only time will tell I guess. <shrugs>
P.S. This is also the Suggestion Forums which is where posts go to die or people who are bored come to waste their time. I was bored so I wasted a few minutes to make this post. Sadly, anyone expecting more than this is just using their keyboard to twiddle their thumbs. Welcome to Nowhereville, population me, and you, and you, and you too, oh and especially you back there in the corner who doesn't think we saw you.
Well. I kind of like the Telepathy powers. I can definitely see the set up the powers are going for. They do seem to have synergy. I thought they would get MORE love though. However, if there's one thing I can see, it's that Telepathy is no longer as useless as it once was. Maybe these will be enough to bump it up a notch. Not the notch we were expecting... a notch that's a little worn... but its still something.
Just from my personal testing you hit the nail on the head. The new debuffs do add some utility to the AT. The set can work if you build to it's strengths i.e. debuff monster. I'm sort of excited to see what sort of builds people come up with. CO players have a habit of doing some crash shiznit with powers people thought were crappy at first.
Not gonna lie, I'm legitimately excited for the new powers. It's been quite a bit of time since we got any, and I'm a bit bored with what's out there now, since I've pretty much experimented with every combination. I already have a 40 set up ready to use em.
I can see why people would be disappointed that the set doesn't do what they expect, or what was initially on pts, but it's definitely something. This game needed a hard dotmaster that wasn't just spamming epidemic or bleeds. It's a mechanic we see in a lot of mmos, and imo was pretty lacking here. My main's pestilence/epi specifically because I *love* dotmasters.
I'm gonna have a field day with it. I'm sorry for everyone who didn't get what they wanted, but it's exactly what I was needing.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
If there's ever a "next time"...you may want to try not demanding a rework of all the boss fights and half the game's mechanics just to get part of one powerset working the way you want it to work.
No matter how many stories you get told about how "good" Crowd Control used to be, back in the good old days before those evil nasty damaging AoEs took over everything.
You had a chance here to get an actual viable support passive added into the game, and instead you wasted time, energy and forum bandwidth arguing over how much you wanted it to be support-only, when it doesn't add much to the game either as an all-role passive or as a support-only passive.
But oh well. Hindsight, 20/20, etc
Also: Jaybezz handling your marketing and PR is a horrible, horrible idea.
Now go blast/scramble/DoT/frappe/liquefy stuff with your minds already. It's a lot better than you're giving it credit for.
Wouldn't it be more like going into Burger King, getting a burger, sitting down to eat it, and having the manager come over to your table and replace your burger with a taco while offering to sell you a, "respec," taco into burger token ?
Context.
In the context I used it, it was entirely applicable.
I was making the analogy to illustrate that we really have no say in what gets done with the game. The only choice we have in the matter is whether or not we will pay for what they choose to give us.
Burger King sells burgers, not tacos. Wanting a taco does not change the fact that they do not sell them. And it has no bearing on whether they will decide to sell tacos in the future. They sell burgers, and our only options are to buy the burger we already know they sell, or go somewhere else to get the taco we want (that they don't sell).
The analogy is apt in regards to the fact that we don't get to dictate when or how they change things in the game. Just as we can't force Burger King to make us tacos, we can't force Cryptic to make the changes we want. If we somehow DID force Burger King to sell us a taco we might find that we don't like that taco. As it turns out, Burger King isn't very good at making tacos.
If we don't like the changes they DO make, yet keep giving them our money, whose fault is that?
The options are simple, and limited:
1) Deal with the change and either use the power in its new form pick a different one.
-or-
2) If the change completely ruins the game for you, find another game to play.
I have yet to see a game developer roll back a change they felt was necessary just because it made people unhappy. They saw their options as:
1) Make a change to how the power works to stop the exploitation of it, knowing it will make people unhappy.
-or-
2) Continue to allow a power to be so broken it routinely renders entire teams useless when one player uses it.
Whether they could have fixed that power a different way I don't know. I'm assuming they couldn't, because it doesn't make sense to piss off your playerbase when there is a way to do it that doesn't.
For all we know, they DID try to fix it a different way, and broke something else worse in the process. Would you be okay with Throwing Blades getting its damage reduced on a tap if it meant every other ranged AoE got its damage gutted too (Including the ones that are working correctly)?
Clearly something is wrong with the coding for that power. Knowing how code works doesn't really help anyone who is not in the office looking at that specific piece of broken code. Especially since none of us know what other pieces of code the broken code is interacting with.
nightr0d could be the best computer coder in the world. That doesn't mean he automatically knows how to fix code he's never personally seen.
Same goes for me in my field. I can hear that there is something wrong with an audio recording, but if all I have to go on is the recording and no other information, there's not much I can do to fix it. If it's just a bad mix, I could correct it if I had access to the master tracks. But if the problem occurred with the original source audio, there is nothing I can do about it. If all I have access to is the final recorded audio, there's nothing I can do about any of it. Make sense?
nightr0d's position is similar. To use my analogy, all he has access to is the final recording (the in-game version of the power). He can clearly tell that it has broken code, but that doesn't tell him where the code is broken, or how.
In the context I used it, it was entirely applicable.
I was making the analogy to illustrate that we really have no say in what gets done with the game. The only choice we have in the matter is whether or not we will pay for what they choose to give us.
Perhaps we do not have a direct say, but indirectly the players have a major role in determining what is done with the game (as you mention) through our wallets and our feedback. I agree completely with the idea of paying for what is presented. The issue is when one pays for something that they chose to give us, and having them take it away after the fact. Its an MMO, I get that. MMOs are always works in progress. I get that. The game is a service for which people are paying, and when changes to the service adversely affect customers some sort of simple token is appropriate (if not outright necessary in this day and age of instant word of mouth). A retcon token would be perfect.
Burger King sells burgers, not tacos. Wanting a taco does not change the fact that they do not sell them. And it has no bearing on whether they will decide to sell tacos in the future. They sell burgers, and our only options are to buy the burger we already know they sell, or go somewhere else to get the taco we want (that they don't sell).
The analogy is apt in regards to the fact that we don't get to dictate when or how they change things in the game. Just as we can't force Burger King to make us tacos, we can't force Cryptic to make the changes we want. If we somehow DID force Burger King to sell us a taco we might find that we don't like that taco. As it turns out, Burger King isn't very good at making tacos.
Again, this analogy does not really cover the situation. The taco was on the menu. It was ordered. The customer was eating it. Mid consumption it was snatched away and replaced with something else entirely, something that the patron found unpalatable, while the company offered to sell a ticket to replace the unpalatable replacement with something more to the patron's taste.
If we don't like the changes they DO make, yet keep giving them our money, whose fault is that?
Well, I think its fair to say that not anywhere near as many people are giving them their money as was the case once upon a time. I know that I do not.
1) Deal with the change and either use the power in its new form pick a different one.
-or-
2) If the change completely ruins the game for you, find another game to play.
I have yet to see a game developer roll back a change they felt was necessary just because it made people unhappy. They saw their options as:
1) Make a change to how the power works to stop the exploitation of it, knowing it will make people unhappy.
-or-
2) Continue to allow a power to be so broken it routinely renders entire teams useless when one player uses it.
Bugs and exploits should be fixed. I do think that it might be relevant to point out that Freeform character building, "routinely renders entire teams useless when one player uses it." Its one of the reasons that all of the people that started CO with me back in '09 left.
Whether they could have fixed that power a different way I don't know. I'm assuming they couldn't, because it doesn't make sense to piss off your playerbase when there is a way to do it that doesn't.
I tend to assume that they could, but that the amount of time and/or effort involved was considered a poor return on investment.
For all we know, they DID try to fix it a different way, and broke something else worse in the process. Would you be okay with Throwing Blades getting its damage reduced on a tap if it meant every other ranged AoE got its damage gutted too (Including the ones that are working correctly)?
In general I prefer better balance between powers. I do not use Throwing Blades myself (other than time spent testing it on PTS and Live), but I would rather see it balanced to be on par with other options of its tier (or them balanced to its performance)
Any commentary or discussion we might engage in regarding how difficult it is to fix is pure speculation. What is not speculation is that the change adversely affects characters. A retcon would address that. It might not completely take away the sting of a non exploiting player seeing a favored character build damaged, but it would show that the company recognizes the importance of the customer experience.
I work for a company with a Revenue greater than $200 Billion. Why would I ever give up my job for a worse one? (no offense to the ppl at Cryptic)
I work for a company that wouldn't waste its time with a revenue that low. So what? It doesn't mean anything. All those huge multi-billion dollar companies have millions of bottom level employees.
For all we know, your claim could mean "I'm a McBurger-Flipper."
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Again, this analogy does not really cover the situation. The taco was on the menu. It was ordered. The customer was eating it. Mid consumption it was snatched away and replaced with something else entirely, something that the patron found unpalatable, while the company offered to sell a ticket to replace the unpalatable replacement with something more to the patron's taste.
The problem is (to continue the analogy): Tacos weren't on the menu. They were being sold out the back door by an unscrupulous employee.
Tacos in this case being a broken power. Sure, there were some people that weren't exploiting it, but do you think those people were complaining that the power was doing way more damage than it was intended to? I somehow doubt that.
Any commentary or discussion we might engage in regarding how difficult it is to fix is pure speculation. What is not speculation is that the change adversely affects characters. A retcon would address that. It might not completely take away the sting of a non exploiting player seeing a favored character build damaged, but it would show that the company recognizes the importance of the customer experience.
I'm in favor of a retcon being given. I don't recall saying anything at all to the contrary.
Comments
It was either TB or Ricochet Shot...Or something. One of the boomerang powers. They all make the same silly animation and have the same projectile so really.
Deliciously nutritious!
This is true for most decisions in Champions Online or plenty of freeform systems. You'll always have a "why bother" aspect of choice. Why would you bother investing in anything other than crits? Why would you bother with any other Claw power aside from Dragon's Claws? Why go Might when Martial Arts Unarmed is faster and does more damage in general? Why would you bother tanking with anything other than Devour Essence? Why bother with melee when you can range DPS to more effect?
There will always be superior choices, and I'm not even talking about FotM PvP builds. CO's system is much like a pen and paper system, where people always using the most maxed out most effective option is avoided by the gaming group coming to an agreement. There is no "gaming group" or GM that will limit you CO, so there is no one stopping you in using the most effective option or variant.
However, on the upside, there is no PvE content that demands you use anything outside of your comfort zone. If you go for the less effective option that you prefer aesthetically more, you aren't going to be penalized, unless you compare your performance to other players. The only times you will be penalized is fighting Cosmics for drops or playing PvP. I have no solution for Cosmics, but if you're avidly paying PvP, then you have three options:
1) Go the fighting game route and just deal with the fact that your character was nerfed;
2) Go the fighting game route #2 and jump ship and go to the character build that's superior;
3) Go the trading card game route and tweak your deck/build.
It's an online game, it gets updated constantly, things change. Oh boy do things change... I played Might because it was fun, despite it being crap at first. Then they buffed it and I was happy. Then they buffed other sets more but I didn't mind. Then my build fell apart and I had to completely and utterly change my playstyle and approach to my main character. Then I dropped it for another set, but ended up coming back.
I have basically been iterating on my character's capabilities ever since I started playing in January 2010. Sometimes it was frustrating, sometimes it was rewarding. Sometimes I wanted to yell at the Devs (and I did).
They obviously have their idea of how the game should be balanced or worked. Maybe there are backend reasons they cannot do stuff, maybe they're thinking longterm. I am not sure if this was intentional, but ironically, I now have more Might powers in my arsenal than I did in 2010. Funny, considering I've never complained about Might as much as I did the past year.
So, what I'm getting at is that powers change, sometimes to people's liking and sometimes not. If you are not enjoying the power anymore, change it. If you have no alternatives, learn to use it in the new way. It's just the nature of online games.
Real Soviet Damage PRIMUS Page | Soviet Might Build | Artwork of my Characters | I wrote a book called "The Ring of Void"
Bingo!
We have a winnah!
Yes, we are paying customers. But ultimately the only choice we have in it is whether or not we are willing to pay for what is being offered. We have no real say in what is offered to us.
Believing otherwise is like walking into Burger King and demanding that they sell you a taco. You can demand tacos all you want, but in the end you're getting a burger or you're going somewhere else.
1- Psi Lash does more DPS than Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech <-- WIN
2- Please do not PvP with these powers as they still heal players in combat (opposition's side)
I am sad they have gone LIVE in such a state. I feel very much cheated.
I saw them go from great to barely worth using in a very long period of time.
I know that if I plan to use these powers I will have to solo anything I want to do. A shame really. Crying Shame.
And unless people are fine with me joining Gravitar and being next to useless, I guess I'll never encounter Gravitar.
Then there is Congress of Selves, which has remained a Hybrid Passive *shakes head*
At least they took my suggestion of making MoTM look like an Astral Form...I'll probably take it for RP purposes...
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My degree is in SOEN and in case you don't know, that stands for Software Engineering (not Computer Science). SO yes I can tell them what poor job they do because I know. Coding is coding and I recognize a hack fix any day. Considering they write code they can't fix tells me that either they a. Don't have sufficient knowledge b. Have a very poor architecture c. Inadequate documentation d. Insufficient testing (QA). Not knowing how to fix something is not an excuse.
So again, who are you to tell me I can't comment on this?
What do you know of coding methodologies and principles?
Thought so :rolleyes:
They've already said the game was held together with duct-tape, so it's b.
Or, they first investigated the bug and then decided they should also modify the power, not just fix the bug. You may have a degree in SOEN, but you aren't psychic (I think). We can only speculate, really.
Real Soviet Damage PRIMUS Page | Soviet Might Build | Artwork of my Characters | I wrote a book called "The Ring of Void"
And I was supposed to know that how exactly? Does your computer screen tell you that *I* have a degree in Sound Engineering? I could tell you what an engineer did wrong on practically any audio recording you play for me, and I could tell you how to correct it in a re-master. It isn't at all relevant to this discussion, but it illustrates my point that there is no way you could have known I know all that.
You know as well as I do that there are a LOT of people out there who talk out of their butts when it comes to how easy something is to fix in a game. In fact, if you really have that degree you should know that better than I do. You said nothing in this thread to give me any indication you were any different.
Something else to consider:
It is very probable that the people working on the game now are not the ones who wrote the code in the first place.
I see it as being somewhat similar to building a house. I've seen a number of cases where a contractor comes in for a remodel and realizes that they can't do anything about what they came there to fix, because the person who originally built it did it in such a way that fixing a poorly built structure would destroy something else.
Not quite the same thing, but I'm pretty sure the same kind of thing can and does happen with code.
So, is their inability to fix it because of their own incompetence, or did the last people to work on it make it so they couldn't fix it without tearing something else apart too?
Given the choice of
1) Put together a fix that solves the problem in a clumsy way that works.
-or-
2) Re-write large chunks of code and risk breaking it worse because you don't know what the last guy did in there.
.....and you have a deadline of, say, a week to have a solution ready.
Which do you choose?
Edit: Also worth noting is that I used the word "if" in both instances. "If you haven't" and "If you couldn't". Don't get so defensive, and don't say I said something when it is clear in the quote you posted that I didn't.
If you don't know what I know then don't assume you do. Saying "if" does not even in the slightest change the tone of your writing. When you wrote it you assumed I did not know what I was talking about. That is evident since most of your post was about me not knowing how difficult or problematic development is. On this note lets just end it here. Don't start an argument regarding software development with me because if you are a Sound Engineer then, as a professional, you should know that you don't have the expertise in this domain. (as I would not talk about sound)
I have reverse engineered code before so I know exactly what it entails and how difficult it is. Nevertheless, that is not an excuse for such a poorly done job. The issue is that, based on how Cryptic did thing up until now, they consider Throwing Blades as fixed so that's that. They won't touch it again. IF this was merely a temporary fix to prevent exploiting it then it would be different but it is NOT.
The same applies to Telepathy. The reason ppl are upset is because they know that there won't be any development on it anymore since once something goes LIVE it remains the way it is for an indefinite amount of time.
So yes I know what I am talking about bot in terms of programming and in terms of being here for more than 1400days. As such, I have a good idea of how Cryptic operates and what a push to LIVE means for any piece of content they produce.
P.S: You can't be seriously accusing me of being defensive. This is my profession of course I know what I'm talking about. How would you react if someone would ask you if you know how difficult is to process/create/filter sound and make it seem as if you have no idea what you are talking about. Let's just agree that you did not know and end the accusations with that. Fair enough?
The power was useful when tap spammed even without the exploit. This is a bandaid fix, and anyone who can't see that or tries to justify this """fix""" in any way whatsoever really just has their head up their ***.
I expect a free retcon for garbage bandaid fixes, yes. We should not have to pay for their mistakes.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I have a Degree in Psychology, specialising in Passive Aggressive behaviours.........
You guys should PM me:biggrin:
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
>_> this is just plain trolling. If you have a degree in Psychology then do a psychoanalysis on why exactly you felt that you HAD to mention that. :rolleyes:
If I had not mentioned being a sound engineer myself, it wouldn't bother me. To be perfectly honest.
And I'm not going to mislead you. I do have a degree in sound engineering, but I don't do it for a living at the moment. I would like to, but jobs in the field are scarce in my area and I'm currently unwilling to relocate.
It may not be entirely fair, but assuming that most people don't know what they are talking about is my default stance, until I have reason to believe otherwise. Some people might find it insulting, but it saves me from making mistakes due to listening to someone I shouldn't have while assuming their advice was sound.
Since I view things that way, I don't expect people to give ME the benefit of the doubt either. To behave otherwise would be hypocritical.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I've just seen a whole lot of people making assumptions on things they aren't qualified to make assumptions on, and up until your response I had no reason to believe you were not one of them yourself. I'll take your word for it that you know your stuff and I stand corrected on that matter.
A little less ranting, a little more self-reflection and a sense of humour would do you a world of good. Also, be careful how you throw the "T" word around.
Now take two of these and take a nap. Repeat if symptoms persist
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
You then have to take into account that these powers can be used in ANY role, including the passive.
Yet, it's a sin to expect good damage without using 2GM?
However if you want to Support anything go do PvP, with the healing you'll provide the opposing forces with, they'll love you. Trust me.
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Why exactly am I supposed to take your comment with humor? I don't find it amusing. Oh and don't patronize me alright.
The "T" word was not thrown around at all. Your comment was utterly unhelpful and besides the point of the discussion I had with that person or the topic of this thread. The only thing you were doing is belittling the both of us. You are a troll, that much is evident.
P.S: Suggesting that someone would need therapy (contacting a Psychologist) because they made a post is utterly ridiculous. You are probably the one who needs therapy.
Calm down and watch that nasty little tongue of yours.......a sense of humour was required.....maybe I should have known better
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Condescending much eh?
You seriously think that pretending it was all a "joke" makes it perfectly acceptable.
"nasty little tongue of yours" <-- What are you talking about and who do you think you are talking to me in that tone.
I suppose manners are something you have not been thought.
But no, please continue being a troll.
I believe the intention was to cause humour. Since this has not succeeded please stop fighting...call a truce or something.
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Stop fighting so we can get back to #ButthurtNOW.
Weeee Zone chats gonna be fun. So much delicious rage. :biggrin:
Deliciously nutritious!
Journal, 11th of July 2013........Patient X's therapy is coming along as planned. I have, so far, uncovered aggression issues as well as a delusional-superiority syndrome. My initial attempt at using humour seems to have intensified his anger problem, but I feel we are arriving at the heart of his imbalance.
I have also tried the "parent technique", scolding him and confronting him vis-a vis his sociopathic behaviour, thereby uncovering a core of self-righteous indignation coupled with a transference of his psychiatric problems onto others.
Dare I hope to believe that I have found the patient that I have always sought, the "missing link" of man's mental evolution from ape to human being? I relish our future sessions......I will finally uncover the Rosetta Stone of Psychiatry and rub it in the face of those who always doubted me. Yes! You, Dr.Langstrom, you have always belittled my groundbreaking work! You and your cronies shall be unable to mock me soon!
MUAHAHAHAHA!
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I quit.
That soo wasn't necessary. Just cause your main wasn't rendered unplayable for almost a year, no need to laugh at those of us who have waited and ended up with absolute crap.
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I'm sticking with what I want from the power, and I'd be more than happy to take a damage decrease across the board rather than having the off-chance to do 0 damage if my finger slips. No other power in the game has that effect.
That being said, there is no good thematic stand-in for it, so I think I'm stuck with the power.
Seems like and autobiography to me. You show all the symptoms described.
Raven, read the above and tell me what you think. I can be condescending, belittling and insulting people like he does while claiming it's all "fun and games" as well :rolleyes: (too bad the report button is gone) . It's a typical Troll gimmick, they just make is seem like they are joking. There is noting funny in being told to get therapy for making a forum post.
I beg to differ, two of my many alts have been rendered entirely playable for the last year!
It's only as bad as you guys keep making it. Seriously, when the term 'Mini-set' is heard, being done by a single person on their time off after we stole them away from another game, and THAT person probably had to steal away another for the grapical effects, what did you really expect? A full crowd control review, which it would need in order to make half your suggestions viable?
Nope. You get new powers. Go play with them in your dollhouse, like the rest of us.
Deliciously nutritious!
AFAIK GMC was CO, then got stolen, and we are trying to get him back.
It's a shame, that's all.
I'm sure you've read my latest suggestions right?:rolleyes: Of course you have, which is why these powers couldn't have interrupts in a similar fashion as Power Gauntlet...
These "new" powers have gotten progressively worse.
I just hope I don't ruin anyone's Boss battles (like Gravitar) by being on your team, I'll probably only add to the body count so I apologise in advance.
My Dollhouse was called Crowd Control, it go bulldozed by the On Alert Truck. So I can't play.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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A big part of me thinks that Throwing Blades is gonna be stuck the way it is from here on out too. Just look at the thread. It's pretty much just me and a couple of others trying to defend it, and we're getting snarked at by a few other people. As much as I don't like it, I think popular opinion is going to say that this Throwing Blades nerf was a great thing.
Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about that myself aside from toss out complaints, so... yeah. You've all already won, I guess.
Though I'm disturbed by the number of people who don't know anything about Throwing Blades aside from the fact that it was exploited to mow down Alert bosses and Cosmics...
... I'm taking away from the Telepathy discussion, aren't I?
Meh. Couldn't be any worse then most pugs. 'sides, I like the cut of your jib.
You can play perfectly fine. Just not the broken playstyle you guys seem desperate to uphold.
Deliciously nutritious!
Now, as regards the argument itself, while I have no degrees worth mentioning, I do have a few years' experience in the field - and I can assure you that maintaining the software of someone who isn't in the shop any more is no picnic, especially if it's insufficiently commented. I've regaled folks here with the story of the small error in one program at SAC HQ that resulted in every nuke in the inventory being targeted to 0 degrees latitude, 0 degrees longitude for a few days back in the early '80s.
Now picture an environment so spaghetti-coded that adding a module to one program can introduce an error of that level in a completely different program, running under another system (as in, say, adding the Nighthawk missions and completely shutting down the Chat systems). That's what the devs are working with here. It's not the simple, clean environment a textbook might lead you to expect. There are no easy fixes here.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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As a novice programmer (Hey, I can make small, useless console applications in C! Please don't type %s in any of the input prompts, you might break something!) I can appreciate that keeping your code clean and clearly commented is more important than actually MAKING something. Knowing where something broke is extremely important, and that's why we have duct tape fixes on CO: it's hard to pinpoint where something broke.
Honestly? If they spent a month organizing all of CO's code and straightening the spaghetti, it still wouldn't be enough at this stage... in fact, that'd probably break everything.
that's right, i'm issuing a challenge to cryptic north. ;D
Bickering eh? Fact is, me and that other guy had an argument (if you want to call it that) but we solved it among ourselves and moved on. There was no reason for someone else to butt in and act all "I have a Psych degree and I will now analyze you etc...". Also I don't need anyone on a forum to do a psych test on me or to suggest that I need therapy (yes I noticed he's a hypocrite). You can throw out accusations of passive-aggressive as much as you want but simply being angry or upset does not make you passive-aggressive.
As I mentioned before, I worked on projects like that as well. Had to reverse engineer an entire piece of software since there was no documentation and whoever worked on it was gone. The people who requested the software themselves did not know what features the software had or what they required it to do (go figure). Oh did I mention that the software did not work almost at all? It was full of errors. Bad system architecture, bad and incorrect database architecture, no comments and whatever documentation was there was wrong. Yeah it was bs, I still made it work and then some.
Incompetence or ignorance is not an excuse. You might want to find an excuse for them but to me, since they work in the same field, what I see is sheer incompetence. That is my professional opinion.
Edit: He's a troll, you want prof here you go:
Journal, 11th of July 2013 (addendum).....Gott im Himmel!! I was previously under the impression that patient X was in complete denial of his deranged psyche, yet it appears that, at the very least, a part of his subconscious is aware of his psychological impediments. The quotation above, recorded from his last group session reveal this to me most evidently.
Note how the patient concocts a dream world where he is a functioning part of society...nothing could be futher from the truth! The whole story is, of course, utter fantasy, yet if we analyse the references to "software", we can see that the sick individual in question is undoubtedly reffering to his own damaged mind. "The software did not work at all..", "It was full of errors..", "Bad system architecture..", etc, etc.
Also, the "people who requested the software" is obviously a reference to me, as his doctor. This is so completely fascinating!
I must reach out to this pathetic creature, I must probe further...........
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I work for a company with a Revenue greater than $200 Billion. Why would I ever give up my job for a worse one?
I could give them some advice, and it would be free on top but I doubt they would look at it. This section of the forum might as well be called "Recycle Bin" if you know what I mean.
Been there before myself. My advice is to just move on. It's not worth stressing over, as depressing as it may be.
Real Soviet Damage PRIMUS Page | Soviet Might Build | Artwork of my Characters | I wrote a book called "The Ring of Void"
Never mind, we're done here...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Sure? Don't want to bring out the pom poms?
I'm not sure that this analogy is applicable.
Wouldn't it be more like going into Burger King, getting a burger, sitting down to eat it, and having the manager come over to your table and replace your burger with a taco while offering to sell you a, "respec," taco into burger token ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I was under the impression that tap spamming was better DPS, generally (though not necessarily for all powers), than charging at the cost of reduced energy efficiency.
Excellent advice. Been there myself.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
What I said was the truth yet you feel the need to mock me?
Yeah, we are done here.
I do not understand why people say CC is not viable. CC *is* viable if you build for it and use the CC specs. Those hoping for nu-telepathy to break the mould and allow hard CC on bosses were doomed to disappointment from the start as such things would require changes to every SV+ encounter in the game. Such a thing may happen someday, but it will not happen because of a mini-set power release.
Just because you do not like how something turned out does not mean it is bad or cannot work. I find it funny people complain about the new debuffs from the telepathy set (charge speed increase and cooldown time increase) saying how little effect they have when interrupts actually made LESS of an effect (if you point to that magical time on PTS when the interrupts were completely spammable and worked on everything re-read the above paragraph)! But I guess since it's not CC it doesn't matter.
As far as Psi Lash doing more dps than Shadow of Doubt... your point being? It's a DoT! Use Shadow of Doubt then toggle Psi Lash and bask in the glory of Psi Lash *and* Shadow of Doubt's dps and the debuffs from Shadow of Doubt.
None of the released powers, content, etc is perfect. Nor will it ever be perfect. None of it is exactly how I would have done it. Nor will it be exactly how I want it. None of that means it's the worst thing ever or that it can't work.
If all else fails, use my sig as a mantra.
Not even a normal TAP !!?? xD
In addition...
Nightr0d: You are correct. if you're using powers which get redone/revamped/hack-fixed/whatever...you should get a free/forced retcon to adapt to those changes in the best way possible. That's just how it works here and when it doesn't...it should. Keep in mind I don't even use this power. I'm just going off of past examples. This is how it "should" work. You "should" get a retcon in some form.
Also, and I don't particularly like that this is the stance I must take, but we got new powers. We went from almost utter below maintenance mode levels to getting SOMETHING. it might not be the something some people wanted(which was kind of unrealistic) but it's something. I don't know if I buy into the hype engine that is the almighty "CRYPTIC NORTH" at the momment but they could turn out to be a positive. The sad, and usual, thing here is we have to wait longer to find out. Even if they do something amazing we might not ever know about it due to communication and stealth patching. This is simply the reality of the system.
In a nutshell I see this as a positive and an indifference. Yay we got new powers and now we can...uhm....er....a....roll a new alt to run the same stuff? Truth is, I might actually take this bread crumb and roll with it because it's something to do in CO. That is if I can force myself to run through Westside again. Only time will tell I guess. <shrugs>
P.S. This is also the Suggestion Forums which is where posts go to die or people who are bored come to waste their time. I was bored so I wasted a few minutes to make this post. Sadly, anyone expecting more than this is just using their keyboard to twiddle their thumbs. Welcome to Nowhereville, population me, and you, and you, and you too, oh and especially you back there in the corner who doesn't think we saw you.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Just from my personal testing you hit the nail on the head. The new debuffs do add some utility to the AT. The set can work if you build to it's strengths i.e. debuff monster. I'm sort of excited to see what sort of builds people come up with. CO players have a habit of doing some crash shiznit with powers people thought were crappy at first.
I can see why people would be disappointed that the set doesn't do what they expect, or what was initially on pts, but it's definitely something. This game needed a hard dotmaster that wasn't just spamming epidemic or bleeds. It's a mechanic we see in a lot of mmos, and imo was pretty lacking here. My main's pestilence/epi specifically because I *love* dotmasters.
I'm gonna have a field day with it. I'm sorry for everyone who didn't get what they wanted, but it's exactly what I was needing.
RIP Caine
If there's ever a "next time"...you may want to try not demanding a rework of all the boss fights and half the game's mechanics just to get part of one powerset working the way you want it to work.
No matter how many stories you get told about how "good" Crowd Control used to be, back in the good old days before those evil nasty damaging AoEs took over everything.
You had a chance here to get an actual viable support passive added into the game, and instead you wasted time, energy and forum bandwidth arguing over how much you wanted it to be support-only, when it doesn't add much to the game either as an all-role passive or as a support-only passive.
But oh well. Hindsight, 20/20, etc
Also: Jaybezz handling your marketing and PR is a horrible, horrible idea.
Now go blast/scramble/DoT/frappe/liquefy stuff with your minds already. It's a lot better than you're giving it credit for.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
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Context.
In the context I used it, it was entirely applicable.
I was making the analogy to illustrate that we really have no say in what gets done with the game. The only choice we have in the matter is whether or not we will pay for what they choose to give us.
Burger King sells burgers, not tacos. Wanting a taco does not change the fact that they do not sell them. And it has no bearing on whether they will decide to sell tacos in the future. They sell burgers, and our only options are to buy the burger we already know they sell, or go somewhere else to get the taco we want (that they don't sell).
The analogy is apt in regards to the fact that we don't get to dictate when or how they change things in the game. Just as we can't force Burger King to make us tacos, we can't force Cryptic to make the changes we want. If we somehow DID force Burger King to sell us a taco we might find that we don't like that taco. As it turns out, Burger King isn't very good at making tacos.
If we don't like the changes they DO make, yet keep giving them our money, whose fault is that?
The options are simple, and limited:
1) Deal with the change and either use the power in its new form pick a different one.
-or-
2) If the change completely ruins the game for you, find another game to play.
I have yet to see a game developer roll back a change they felt was necessary just because it made people unhappy. They saw their options as:
1) Make a change to how the power works to stop the exploitation of it, knowing it will make people unhappy.
-or-
2) Continue to allow a power to be so broken it routinely renders entire teams useless when one player uses it.
Whether they could have fixed that power a different way I don't know. I'm assuming they couldn't, because it doesn't make sense to piss off your playerbase when there is a way to do it that doesn't.
For all we know, they DID try to fix it a different way, and broke something else worse in the process. Would you be okay with Throwing Blades getting its damage reduced on a tap if it meant every other ranged AoE got its damage gutted too (Including the ones that are working correctly)?
Clearly something is wrong with the coding for that power. Knowing how code works doesn't really help anyone who is not in the office looking at that specific piece of broken code. Especially since none of us know what other pieces of code the broken code is interacting with.
nightr0d could be the best computer coder in the world. That doesn't mean he automatically knows how to fix code he's never personally seen.
Same goes for me in my field. I can hear that there is something wrong with an audio recording, but if all I have to go on is the recording and no other information, there's not much I can do to fix it. If it's just a bad mix, I could correct it if I had access to the master tracks. But if the problem occurred with the original source audio, there is nothing I can do about it. If all I have access to is the final recorded audio, there's nothing I can do about any of it. Make sense?
nightr0d's position is similar. To use my analogy, all he has access to is the final recording (the in-game version of the power). He can clearly tell that it has broken code, but that doesn't tell him where the code is broken, or how.
Perhaps we do not have a direct say, but indirectly the players have a major role in determining what is done with the game (as you mention) through our wallets and our feedback. I agree completely with the idea of paying for what is presented. The issue is when one pays for something that they chose to give us, and having them take it away after the fact. Its an MMO, I get that. MMOs are always works in progress. I get that. The game is a service for which people are paying, and when changes to the service adversely affect customers some sort of simple token is appropriate (if not outright necessary in this day and age of instant word of mouth). A retcon token would be perfect.
Again, this analogy does not really cover the situation. The taco was on the menu. It was ordered. The customer was eating it. Mid consumption it was snatched away and replaced with something else entirely, something that the patron found unpalatable, while the company offered to sell a ticket to replace the unpalatable replacement with something more to the patron's taste.
Well, I think its fair to say that not anywhere near as many people are giving them their money as was the case once upon a time. I know that I do not.
Bugs and exploits should be fixed. I do think that it might be relevant to point out that Freeform character building, "routinely renders entire teams useless when one player uses it." Its one of the reasons that all of the people that started CO with me back in '09 left.
I tend to assume that they could, but that the amount of time and/or effort involved was considered a poor return on investment.
In general I prefer better balance between powers. I do not use Throwing Blades myself (other than time spent testing it on PTS and Live), but I would rather see it balanced to be on par with other options of its tier (or them balanced to its performance)
Any commentary or discussion we might engage in regarding how difficult it is to fix is pure speculation. What is not speculation is that the change adversely affects characters. A retcon would address that. It might not completely take away the sting of a non exploiting player seeing a favored character build damaged, but it would show that the company recognizes the importance of the customer experience.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I work for a company that wouldn't waste its time with a revenue that low. So what? It doesn't mean anything. All those huge multi-billion dollar companies have millions of bottom level employees.
For all we know, your claim could mean "I'm a McBurger-Flipper."
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
The problem is (to continue the analogy): Tacos weren't on the menu. They were being sold out the back door by an unscrupulous employee.
Tacos in this case being a broken power. Sure, there were some people that weren't exploiting it, but do you think those people were complaining that the power was doing way more damage than it was intended to? I somehow doubt that.
I'm in favor of a retcon being given. I don't recall saying anything at all to the contrary.