While it's fine with toon being equally good at range and in melee, I'm not exactly sure if said toon should be as good as another one which is specialised only in melee, or only in range.
And it is possible. It's not like having primary SS other than Ego/Str or not having dedicated toggle form can't be substituted otherwise?
But it's only an example.
If you really are subscribed and are using a freeform system, I'd recommend that you convert to silver, put the money where the mouth is and play ATs instead because that seems to be more to your liking, considering that you had to ask these questions.
Wanting a better, more logical and playable game doesn't equal wanting to everyone playing an archetype. Some of us still are making theme toons, (despite having as well a copied powerbuild or two just for farming) which is impossible with AT even when staying withing one/two powersets and you should know it very well.
Meanwhile your weak attempts at being insulting and your passive-aggressiveness only proves that you indeed are fine with present state of the game mechanics, that's why you are defending it.
But no matter how many times you will tell to yourself that everything is fine - it isn't and CO isn't any special flower amongst other games, the one which made mechanics more original and better.
It's broken. Deny it as long as you want, it doesn't change anything.
Wanting a better, more logical and playable game doesn't equal wanting to everyone playing an archetype. Some of us still are making theme toons, (despite havin as well a powerbuild or two just for farming) which is impossible with AT even when staying withing one/two powersets and you should know it very well.
Unfortunately your idea does equal to encouraging players to use freeform to play glorified archetypes. It might be logical to you, but it sure as heck isn't to me and not why I play freeform.
Meanwhile your weak attempts at being insulting and your passive-aggressiveness only proves that you indeed are fine with present state of the game, that's why you are defending it.
If I wanted to be insulting, trust me, you'd get it.
But no matter how many times you will tell to yourself that everything is fine - it isn't and CO isn't any special flower amongst other games, the one which made mechanics more original and better.
And since when did I say "everything is fine"? Like I appreciate having words put in my mouth.
While it's fine with toon being equally good at range and in melee, I'm not exactly sure if said toon should be as good as another one which is specialised only in melee, or only in range.
Don't we have Ranged, Melee and Hybrid roles for a reason?
I see no problem with it.
It's logical - either you are medium level in everything or really good but only in a narrow field of expertise. This is how balance is usually made in games, including PnP roleplay ones.
CO tried to be original and wiser than rest of the world, reinventing the wheel, and that's why it failed so badly.
Players shouldn't be able to be equally good in few powersets as are players specialised in only one - they should be sacrificing power for flexibility.
Not the Hero System.
This game, and much of the superhero genre, is not about powerset (and specialization therein), but rather about character concept. There is nothing inherently about a pistol wielding mage that makes him OP compared to either a pure gun wielder or pure mage requiring him to be gimped by either locking him out of higher tier powers or charging him significantly more for them.
If versatility actually provided significant game advantage then a system designed to provide a specialist with a competitive advantage would make sense. But the reality of the matter is that taking powers from multiple sets for theme does not inherently provide any advantage. In fact it can be extremely detrimental to the effectiveness of a build.
While it's fine with toon being equally good at range and in melee, I'm not exactly sure if said toon should be as good as another one which is specialised only in melee, or only in range.
And it is possible. It's not like having primary SS other than Ego/Str or not having dedicated toggle form can't be substituted otherwise?
But it's only an example.
It's not possible to have a character equally "as good" at range and melee, because the two offensive roles have differing damage bonuses.
If you go Balanced, you're losing out on one of the game's only remaining multiplicative damage bonuses (for either ranged or melee).
So you already have the ability, within the game as it currently stands, for someone who is "equally as good at melee and range" to be outclassed in melee or range by someone who specializes only in melee or only in range.
Now, if you're making the argument that "oh, well the Balanced Role character is more durable and does sufficient damage to where specializing isn't worth it"...then you're basically saying that the benefits of specialization aren't worth it, not that specialization isn't possible.
The softcaps on Ego/Str make specializing in them as a defining component of your build for what the stats themselves do not really worth it. If you major one, you're doing it for the spec trees, which are both quite good. But still, it's not as if you can make use of two of the superstat trees at once.
They need to homogenize the boring/necessary/build foundation powers (heals, defenses, passives, etc) and then diversify the stuff that makes people actually make builds around (usually attacks, sometimes a crowd control shtick or healing or a semi-unique way to tank).
In a game as heavily combat-reliant as CO, your attacks are the main way you interact with the world. Supportive/build-foundation/"boring" powers should be more theme-variable and open to more themes, to let people build with what attacks/visual effects they want while still having a solid foundation no matter what they do.
The alternative is trying to make someone who does a self-rooting 50-ft maintained AoE with high energy cost upkeep have the same capacity for survival in general content as someone who has a 100-ft charged AoE alpha-spike that can let their energy regen after everything dies in one or two shots.
Making those two types of mechanics equal in worth is far harder than just saying "okay, here's some fire-themed survival tools if you don't want to use Protection Field".
"Why yes, Feed on Flames is a heal that gives you health back when you burn things. You're made of fire/cosmically-powered by flame/a guy in an expensive thermo-suit/a pyro that gets off on burning things, it makes sense."
Boring but necessary stuff should be as thematically mutable as possible. No, it's not "ideal", but short of reworking all the mechanics, it's the next-best solution while still maintaining "be the hero you want to be" and the freeform system.
Then again, I'd also be a fan of making a dedicated passive slot and low-tier attack slot (without taking away existing powers). Power creep is less bad when it's balanced by the opportunity cost of only being able to use one attack at a time.
Neverwinter's "at-will", "encounter" and "daily" power tiering (along with the Control Wizard's tab-slot Spell Mastery thing) is an idea that, with some tweaks, might actually do some good here, as a possible alternative.
(I'm using Neverwinter as an example because it uses a lot of features that are similar to On Alert)
Let you pick whatever individual powers you want (like current freeform or even with no power tier restrictions), but let where you place them give them a bonus or certain features.
Here's an example off the top of my head of what I think that could look like:
15 powers total. Power tiers for unlocking use the current setup. A few dedicated slots can only be filled with certain types of powers, and you get an additional power choice when the slot gets unlocked.
Other slots (the rest) can take any type of power. Your power choices can be picked without slotting them, powers in slots can be swapped outside of combat (kinda like passives now).
Power Slots:
One End-Builder slot: This can only take energy builders, like now, you pick from the available energy builders. Opens at character creation.
One low-tier attack slot: Can only take Tier 0 or Tier 1 attacks, you choose from the list at character creation
One passive slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. You get to pick a passive then. You can pick more passives with your other powers if you want, but you can only equip one at a time, and this passive pick is free.
One passive energy slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. The existing energy unlocks (reverbs, MSA, etc) are options here, along with three new powers. You can only pick one of these, retconnable as with any other power. They all work like the current reverbs/energy unlocks, in that you can only have one.
1. Equilibrium Boost: Your character gains 50% more energy strength (how fast the bar refills from 0).
2. Energy Builder boost: Your energy builder gains 50% more energy than it normally would. Good if you actually like using end builders, stacks with rec/end's effects
3. Energetic: Your character gains 25% more energy strength and a 25% max energy boost.
4. All current energy unlocks are also available as options here.
First free power slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. You can use this choice to pick whatever power you want within the tiers available to you, unless it's an energy unlock (as you already got that in the bullet point above).
So out of the tutorial, you start out with a slotted passive, an end builder, a non-end-builder attack, a passive energy unlock and another power of your choice.
You then get your remaining 11 power picks as normal, at the following levels for freeform characters:
8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38
The power choices at levels 11, 17, 26 and 35 each also unlock a special type of power slot called "Signature Slots". These are places you can slot powers to make them have an enhanced effect, and are intended for powers that your character really likes or that are iconic for them. (mostly attacks)
You don't have to use these Signature Slots if you choose not to, as there are still enough tray slots to not use them. (two rows of 10 slots is 20, minus 2 slots for end builder and dedicated attack, minus 4 signature slots leaves you with 14 slots for 11 powers). Signature keybind slots can be remapped as normal.
A power placed in a signature slot cannot also be placed in a non-signature slot (kinda like you can't have the same power in two different places at once)
11: 1st Signature Slot - Offensive powers placed in this slot will heal you for a percentage of their damage based on the power rank. 2% at rank 1, 4% at rank 2, 6% at rank 3. Block Replacers in this slot heal you for 5% of your max HP per 3 seconds while maintained. Block Replacers placed in this slot make it take the place of the Block Slot.
17: 2nd Signature Slot - Offensive Powers placed in this slot do increased damage and have increased energy costs, based on the rank of the power. 10% at rank 1, 20% at rank 2, 30% at rank 3
26: 3rd Signature Slot - Tier 0/Tier 1 Offensive powers placed in this slot gain a damage bonus.
Charged Blast powers do 30% more damage on full charge.
Melee Combo powers do 20% more damage and apply Trauma on the third hit of their combo.
Maintain powers grant an +offense/defense for each tick of the maintain (like Locus). Offense/Defense stacks last for 5 seconds.
Click powers gain 30% more damage
35: 4th Signature Slot - Only Active Offenses or attack powers can be placed in this slot. AOs and attacks gain an effect based on power type.
Powers in this slot have a 120 second lockout before being used again, regardless of cooldown reduction.
Active Offenses grant a 30% multiplicative damage bonus for the duration of the power.
Tier 0/1 attacks gain 50% increased critical rate/severity and do double base damage.
Tier 2 attacks do double damage.
Tier 3 attacks do 50% increased damage.
The above's an attempt to encourage people to take more attacks by shifting some of the boring/necessary build framework stuff to other spots, and grant bonuses that only apply to attacks. And since (for the signatures), putting the power into the slot is what grants the boost, you have a bit of variability in what powers you're using where, even within the same build.
Could probably also come up with options for crowd control and healing at some point. Goal of this was mainly to ease the inclusion of the "boring" stuff and provide ways to buff low-tier powers specifically.
Now, see how easy it was to clearly explain what all those powers do and how they interact? So... where's all this complicated mystery that makes balance impossible to achieve?
Any patient can tell you they have a sore throat, their eyes feel dry and their nose is running. However, not everyone can first, identify the root problem based on the symptoms described and second, recommend a cure that will solve the problem with minimal damage to the patient.
I can say something like:
Disable self-targeting on Radiance
Disable the Automated Assault advantage
Change Revitalize to boost the energy return of the energy builder rather than reduce cooldowns
Change Gas Pellets to hit only once per target and disable crits
Change Nanobot Swarm to a broken Active Offense with a CC break strength of 1 and drop its effect to 30% of the current value
But that's quack advice. Solves the problem, but I don't think that's the right way to do it. I'm sure many people will agree.
I don't want to touch the can of worms that is legacy devices either. They are strong, but at the same time people may have paid thousands of G or hundreds in USD to acquire them. Imagine their reaction if they get nerfed.
So that complicates things as well, because it's not just about playing game doctor, it's also about being a politician and making as many people happy as possible, while convincing the people who are unhappy that it is a pill they have to swallow.
Can you confidently say you can do both? I think you've made your stand on the current game balance clear in many threads over many months. The current situation isn't ideal, just about everyone wants to see change, but as jennymachx asks, "so what's your solution?"
I believe the first step to a solution is to get Cryptic's attention and establish yourself as an authority on game design who knows CO very well. That way, your voice holds a bit more weight and they might actually listen. Once you get their ear, it should be easier to get something going. But I don't profess to be an expert or a politician, so I will gladly leave that responsibility to someone else.
Now, if you're making the argument that "oh, well the Balanced Role character is more durable and does sufficient damage to where specializing isn't worth it"...then you're basically saying that the benefits of specialization aren't worth it, not that specialization isn't possible.
That's more like it my actual opinion about it. While it's possible to specialise, benefits of it simply aren't good enough to encourage it.
The softcaps on Ego/Str make specializing in them as a defining component of your build for what the stats themselves do not really worth it. If you major one, you're doing it for the spec trees, which are both quite good. But still, it's not as if you can make use of two of the superstat trees at once.
They need to homogenize the boring/necessary/build foundation powers (heals, defenses, passives, etc) and then diversify the stuff that makes people actually make builds around (usually attacks, sometimes a crowd control shtick or healing or a semi-unique way to tank).
In a game as heavily combat-reliant as CO, your attacks are the main way you interact with the world. Supportive/build-foundation/"boring" powers should be more theme-variable and open to more themes, to let people build with what attacks/visual effects they want while still having a solid foundation no matter what they do.
The alternative is trying to make someone who does a self-rooting 50-ft maintained AoE with high energy cost upkeep have the same capacity for survival in general content as someone who has a 100-ft charged AoE alpha-spike that can let their energy regen after everything dies in one or two shots.
Making those two types of mechanics equal in worth is far harder than just saying "okay, here's some fire-themed survival tools if you don't want to use Protection Field".
"Why yes, Feed on Flames is a heal that gives you health back when you burn things. You're made of fire/cosmically-powered by flame/a guy in an expensive thermo-suit/a pyro that gets off on burning things, it makes sense."
Boring but necessary stuff should be as thematically mutable as possible. No, it's not "ideal", but short of reworking all the mechanics, it's the next-best solution while still maintaining "be the hero you want to be" and the freeform system.
Then again, I'd also be a fan of making a dedicated passive slot and low-tier attack slot (without taking away existing powers). Power creep is less bad when it's balanced by the opportunity cost of only being able to use one attack at a time.
Neverwinter's "at-will", "encounter" and "daily" power tiering (along with the Control Wizard's tab-slot Spell Mastery thing) is an idea that, with some tweaks, might actually do some good here, as a possible alternative.
(I'm using Neverwinter as an example because it uses a lot of features that are similar to On Alert)
Let you pick whatever individual powers you want (like current freeform or even with no power tier restrictions), but let where you place them give them a bonus or certain features.
Here's an example off the top of my head of what I think that could look like:
15 powers total. Power tiers for unlocking use the current setup. A few dedicated slots can only be filled with certain types of powers, and you get an additional power choice when the slot gets unlocked.
Other slots (the rest) can take any type of power. Your power choices can be picked without slotting them, powers in slots can be swapped outside of combat (kinda like passives now).
Power Slots:
One End-Builder slot: This can only take energy builders, like now, you pick from the available energy builders. Opens at character creation.
One low-tier attack slot: Can only take Tier 0 or Tier 1 attacks, you choose from the list at character creation
One passive slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. You get to pick a passive then. You can pick more passives with your other powers if you want, but you can only equip one at a time, and this passive pick is free.
One passive energy slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. The existing energy unlocks (reverbs, MSA, etc) are options here, along with three new powers. You can only pick one of these, retconnable as with any other power. They all work like the current reverbs/energy unlocks, in that you can only have one.
1. Equilibrium Boost: Your character gains 50% more energy strength (how fast the bar refills from 0).
2. Energy Builder boost: Your energy builder gains 50% more energy than it normally would. Good if you actually like using end builders, stacks with rec/end's effects
3. Energetic: Your character gains 25% more energy strength and a 25% max energy boost.
4. All current energy unlocks are also available as options here.
First free power slot: You unlock this when you complete or skip the tutorial. You can use this choice to pick whatever power you want within the tiers available to you, unless it's an energy unlock (as you already got that in the bullet point above).
So out of the tutorial, you start out with a slotted passive, an end builder, a non-end-builder attack, a passive energy unlock and another power of your choice.
You then get your remaining 11 power picks as normal, at the following levels for freeform characters:
8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38
The power choices at levels 11, 17, 26 and 35 each also unlock a special type of power slot called "Signature Slots". These are places you can slot powers to make them have an enhanced effect, and are intended for powers that your character really likes or that are iconic for them. (mostly attacks)
You don't have to use these Signature Slots if you choose not to, as there are still enough tray slots to not use them. (two rows of 10 slots is 20, minus 2 slots for end builder and dedicated attack, minus 4 signature slots leaves you with 14 slots for 11 powers). Signature keybind slots can be remapped as normal.
A power placed in a signature slot cannot also be placed in a non-signature slot (kinda like you can't have the same power in two different places at once)
11: 1st Signature Slot - Offensive powers placed in this slot will heal you for a percentage of their damage based on the power rank. 2% at rank 1, 4% at rank 2, 6% at rank 3. Block Replacers in this slot heal you for 5% of your max HP per 3 seconds while maintained. Block Replacers placed in this slot make it take the place of the Block Slot.
17: 2nd Signature Slot - Offensive Powers placed in this slot do increased damage and have increased energy costs, based on the rank of the power. 10% at rank 1, 20% at rank 2, 30% at rank 3
26: 3rd Signature Slot - Tier 0/Tier 1 Offensive powers placed in this slot gain a damage bonus.
Charged Blast powers do 30% more damage on full charge.
Melee Combo powers do 20% more damage and apply Trauma on the third hit of their combo.
Maintain powers grant an +offense/defense for each tick of the maintain (like Locus). Offense/Defense stacks last for 5 seconds.
Click powers gain 30% more damage
35: 4th Signature Slot - Only Active Offenses or attack powers can be placed in this slot. AOs and attacks gain an effect based on power type.
Powers in this slot have a 120 second lockout before being used again, regardless of cooldown reduction.
Active Offenses grant a 30% multiplicative damage bonus for the duration of the power.
Tier 0/1 attacks gain 50% increased critical rate/severity and do double base damage.
Tier 2 attacks do double damage.
Tier 3 attacks do 50% increased damage.
The above's an attempt to encourage people to take more attacks by shifting some of the boring/necessary build framework stuff to other spots, and grant bonuses that only apply to attacks. And since (for the signatures), putting the power into the slot is what grants the boost, you have a bit of variability in what powers you're using where, even within the same build.
Could probably also come up with options for crowd control and healing at some point. Goal of this was mainly to ease the inclusion of the "boring" stuff and provide ways to buff low-tier powers specifically.
The one that comes to mind is to deny such power combinations to be used and boom instant balance.
You and I both know that it's a stupid solution for obvious reasons, so what's next? Nerf powers on an individual basis? We all know that the majority of the time, power combos are the real issue, so this is hardly a solution.
There's never going to be an ideal balance amongst builds, just accept it.
See, that's another problem people have. They present doing one thing at a time as a solution... then oddly enough they give a reason why doing that one thing only would not work. So... why even bother trying to represent this one thing at a time process if you know it's not a solution? Also, why try to present it as the solution that the person you're talking to is trying to push, when it's clear that they're not? It's almost like you're not actually interested in the solution and just want to be right about balance being impossible...
Obviously, you can't just say "okay we're just going to go around nerfing things.." and achieve balance, because not everything needs to be nerfed, some need to be buffed. Some don't need a nerf or a buff, they just need to be changed. Just doing one or the other across the board doesn't work, for obvious reasons.
Denying power combinations is obviously a terrible idea, and in fact I believe they need to make the freeform system more open by removing the tiers system. It's obvious that at one time the tiers were meant to help provide some amount of balance by restricting what powers you could take together, but it no longer does that.
Furthermore, just adjusting what we have now isn't good enough either, though of course it is part of the solution; many power sets are just missing things they need and the best way to remedy that is to add new powers. Not just powers that are copy-paste versions of what other power sets have with new skins, no, new powers that work in fun and interesting ways and fill a gap in that powerset.
It's important to realize the difference between powerset and theme. Theme doesn't require that the player stay within a powerset, and in fact many themes require powers from multiple power sets, so the idea is not to somehow prevent cherry picking; just to make it not required. The core idea behind balancing needs to be to expand the amount of choices that players have while creating their chosen hero, so that they can both create the hero they want and be as effective as others.
There's a tendency of people, when they say "theres no way all builds can be equal" to be, quite honestly, thinking of some pretty stupid builds. The statement is of course true when you say "Oh well if someone takes fourteen aoe powers how do you make them as effective as another build?", but fact is that is an unrealistic and irrellivent statement. The point isn't to make every conceivable silly little purposely bad build that you could imagine, that no one is actually using, viable; the point is to make it so there isn't a very small pool of best builds that drastically outperform everything else by providing players more tools to make their own new builds better while staying within their theme.
As far as what my specific ideas are for fixing the game, there are plenty... so many I'm sure it would test the character limit on forum posts many times over. The thing is, you can't just write down the solution, it's a process that involves a lot of testing; I guess that would be the first step in my plan, get someone on staff who's willing to actually go through that process and somehow keep them from being placed on the NWO team. As far as typing out all my ideas... that would be a lot of work, and I'm not being paid... wink wink nudge nudge.
Relevant statement: "If we allow men to marry men, what's next... men marrying horses?" - said by some politician.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The largest factor I find is self-buffing. There are so many self-buffs (heals included) that are simply not regulated. The Slotted Passive and Buff Forms had (for the most part) been balanced and given exclusivity. But there is a need to classify and standardize how buffs work MORE than there is a need to figure out how powers work. If these buffs were given at "Signature Slots" this could make building much more regulated in itself.
Again I submit that there is a foundation problem, building on a bad foundation is bad architecture.
Utility Mechanics (Crowd Control and Resistance, Stealth/Sight, Energy Maintenence, Movement Rules, Baseline of Ranged vs Melee Damage, Blast vs Click vs Maintain)
Should games be fair? Depends on the game. Dark Souls is unfair but its still the sh%t. CO is as fair as you make it and to be blunt even with an AT its a cakewalk.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Should games be fair? Depends on the game. Dark Souls is unfair but its still the sh%t. CO is as fair as you make it and to be blunt even with an AT its a cakewalk.
Dark souls is totally fair. You just suck.
And by you, I mean me, I was never able too get anything accomplished past the first boss :redface: ...but the game is still 100% fair. Let's definitely not start pushing ideas like "Anything that takes skill is unfair" !
When it comes to CO, it's exactly like you say... the game is a cakewalk, so how do you even gauge fairness? We only see if the game is fair when we wander into a situation where your power level actually matters...and currently, there's little to nothing that does that here.
So the question isn't "Is CO fair?".. the real question is "How can we even test if CO is fair?"
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
So the question isn't "Is CO fair?".. the real question is "How can we even test if CO is fair?"
My question is broader. I cited examples of why I believe Champions Online is unfair. But there is so much compliance with this bias and I wanted to find out why?
The only two schools of thought I could think are is that
1) There are those who think the game should be biased
2) There are those who are being silent about the bias for some reason.
I'm sure there are more examples of bias than those I cite in the Original Post. I don't really understand anyone saying "Champions Online is fair"
This is an interesting subject... as I often find myself pondering more or less the same thing.
I fully understand the need for a game such as this to make things balanced. People have a tendency to want their characters to feel powerful. I know I do. The problem is, how do you make your might character feel powerful knowing that every other might character is just as powerful?
Champions has done a pretty decent job of dealing with this in the gear options. Being able to get the level 8 and 9 mods on your gear is insanely hard without pulling out the credit card... but it does up the 'uber factor' a bit. However, I do think that there is some work to be done when comparing ranged powers to melee. I remember in COH how I wished I could make a powerhouse who felt powerful. Sure as I put a lot of IO?s on, I could make a very durable tank, but he was gimped damage-wise. Soloing Archvillains was a slow, slow, slow process, but I never faceplanted
In CO it?s a bit better. My ?tanks? do feel much more powerful? until I play one of my DPS toons. My semi-optimized level 40 freeform electric build can put out roughly 3 or more times the damage in the same amount of time as my level 40 freeform might build, which I have cranked up everything trying to increase damage. And while not AS durable as the might build, she?s not too far from it.
This doesn?t seem consistent with comic book heroes. A Hulk, Juggernaut, or Superman is the type of powerhouse I expect from the might powerset, these characters are capable of damaging entire cities while easily absorbing silly amounts of damage. But, damage-wise my level 40 might (who has almost 700 strength and 450+ offense) feels not much more than Spiderman strong. Nothing to sneeze at, but certainly not amazing-feats-of-strength strong. Not I -can-pound-you-into-oblivion strong. And not even close to I?m-strong-enough-to-save-or-destroy-the-world strong. (Please Devs, give us some aircraft carriers to lift! As maxed out toons, we need to feel truly epic in our powers.)
That?s my long winded way of saying that Might should be brought up to the same damage levels as ranged power :biggrin:.
I do think that tiers should be kept, otherwise I can imagine people having nothing but the most potent powers. Since I build characters that I would want to see in a comic, I choose power based on what might be cool for the character.
I also think that travel powers need some tweaking. I really get annoyed that most have to speed up in increments. No DC or Marvel flyers I know of have to accrue speed slowly?there are no restrictions on how much of their flight speed they have access to. I think that this mechanic should be removed, but keep the threat on. I'm no expert on the mechanics, but I know there?s balancing work that would be needed to make this happen, but I totally think it?d be worth it.
I have one character that?s got TP, for thematic reasons. IMO, COH had TP down perfect? it was the fastest transportation power, but it had its limitations to keep it balanced. Mostly it just FELT right. CO?s TP is flying for a few seconds while invisible? there?s no spontaneity to it? it is certainly not the TP that we?ve seen with Nightcrawler (having a TP powerset ala Nightcrawler would be sweet!).
Acrobatics is my favorite leveling transportation power, and superjump is my favorite overall. Flight is great thematically but kinda boring otherwise? swinging is also a lot of fun, even if it?s real work getting somewhere. I always try to see how many flips I can do .
Just my 2 cents. Food for thought. Or maybe general nonsense. Time will tell.
Should games be fair? Depends on the game. Dark Souls is unfair but its still the sh%t. CO is as fair as you make it and to be blunt even with an AT its a cakewalk.
I guessing none of you heroes have seen this perk then.
Should games be fair? Depends on the game. Dark Souls is unfair but its still the sh%t. CO is as fair as you make it and to be blunt even with an AT its a cakewalk.
Then I must REALLY suck, because at the default difficulty, I could not beat the end bosses in The Serpent Lantern final mish with my Savage/Claws/Whateveritscalled AT.
I honestly don't get how so many people say this game is so damn easy. I've died -plenty- of times with both freeforms and AT's.
you should keep reading for the level 40 at powers at 25 & 30 and their ultimate
People get enthusiastic about characters that they like. Not a big deal as long as devs don't just blindly rubberstamp them, and as long as the player is willing to take criticism of his creation without getting defensive.
Then I must REALLY suck, because at the default difficulty, I could not beat the end bosses in The Serpent Lantern final mish with my Savage/Claws/Whateveritscalled AT.
I honestly don't get how so many people say this game is so damn easy. I've died -plenty- of times with both freeforms and AT's.
Game seems plenty fair and balanced to me.
I did every Adventure Pack and Comic Issue with the Savage AT with no problems (not on elite, though), the only exception being Resistance where spike damage from few bosses it too much to survive with Regen only.
But otherwise - no problems, with Whiteout being a cakewalk.
Actually, if any Silver player want's to buy a single AT for farming and easy PvE, while being also very easy to play in general sense, then the Savage is probably the best AT.
I don't believe that any of my freeform builds died maybe... More than six times at their way to 40 and they aren't any hardcore powerbuilds, though not purely thematic either. And it was only when I did something really stupid like aggroing too much enemies.
The only of my toons which earned any perk for dying was my (back then) Soldier, but it was before On Alert. We were playing Whiteout for a first time with me and only other teammate being the Marksman and both toons were 12 or near to it (can't recall). Though we finally succeeded faceplanting was unavoidable, but it was hell of fun.
CO isn't very difficult game even with an AT, only thing you need is to pay attention how many mobs at once you are trying to kill.
Then I must REALLY suck, because at the default difficulty, I could not beat the end bosses in The Serpent Lantern final mish with my Savage/Claws/Whateveritscalled AT.
I honestly don't get how so many people say this game is so damn easy. I've died -plenty- of times with both freeforms and AT's.
Game seems plenty fair and balanced to me.
The end boss in SL is one of those few and far between exceptions to the rule; it actually does enough damage that it could give you some trouble. It's entirely possible that all the easy stuff before that point had lulled you into a half-asleep state, and then the acid spit from the snake caught you off guard while you were dreaming about going on a date with <insert someone you think is cute here>.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Then I must REALLY suck, because at the default difficulty, I could not beat the end bosses in The Serpent Lantern final mish with my Savage/Claws/Whateveritscalled AT.
I honestly don't get how so many people say this game is so damn easy. I've died -plenty- of times with both freeforms and AT's.
Game seems plenty fair and balanced to me.
Yeah what I find easy and what another person finds easy might obviously be two different things. I tend to go straight to 8 stars when ever I play Streetfighter II
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Except not.
EVERY powerset should offer exactly the same possibility for powerbuilding.
If player wants cherry-picking powers, then should be able to do it even if staying within character theme.
Not by making frankenstein monsters.
You can't handwave game inability to provide complete powersets with this way of thinking.
* * *
Yes, power level homogenisation DO creates diversity in themes of character builds.
If every powerset would contain attacks comparable to TMG, Force Cascade or Epidemic, then there would be at least reason to stay within powerset without sacrificing your power.
I've only skimmed the last few pages, so I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you. Are you arguing that all powersets should have exactly the same powers and that the only difference between the powersets should be cosmetic?
I would find a game like that very boring. What I love about CO is the ability to create unique characters by mixing and matching powers from different powersets.
I've only skimmed the last few pages, so I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you. Are you arguing that all powersets should have exactly the same powers and that the only difference between the powersets should be cosmetic?
I would find a game like that very boring. What I love about CO is the ability to create unique characters by mixing and matching powers from different powersets.
That's not what they're saying.
fyi, for the most part, currently the only real difference between powersets is cosmetic.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The choice of powerset is really the choice of main spammable power that happens to have a lot of synergies going for it. Some are PBAoEs, some are 100ft, some are melee range, but just about every powerset has one power that will perform exceptionally well if a bunch of checkboxes are ticked. Then it becomes a question of using the other power picks to tick those checkboxes.
In fact, many powersets actually have the bulk of their synergies in-set, e.g. Fire with Fireball + Conflag + Fire Snake + Heat Wave and Lightning with Negative Ion appliers and users.
Usually the frankensteining happens when trying to shore up survivability, or in PvP builds where the aim is to raise burst DPS at the cost of sustainable DPS.
Edit: Also, can the SL end boss do anything at 100ft? Just wondering, for the past 6 months my SL has been permanently at Freon's bunker for *ahem* convenience
It's entirely possible that all the easy stuff before that point had lulled you into a half-asleep state, and then the acid spit from the snake caught you off guard while you were dreaming about going on a date with <insert someone you think is cute here>.
Actually.....no. When I entered the room, my intent was to take out the human standing there first and move on to take out the snake. Except...I stepped into the room and did a lunge type attack to the human....and died.
After rezzing I returned to the room, hellbent on making things die. Just didn't know it was going to me me again, this time only a bit slower. I lunged, danced and dodged a few times around the room, trying to get a few whacks in on the human....and to my credit, I did whittle him down halfway....but dead again.
I'm getting a bit peeved now, so I use some zen to purchase those heal doohickeys from the store. Guess what? They kept me alive long enough to regret buying them. Death number three, and the human lackey guy is still breathing. I haven't even TOUCHED the snake.
So. Attempt number four....and I spend yet MORE money in the store to get a companion. The darkety dark dark companion, whom I summon and then lunge again at the human, figuring she'll last long enough for me to take out the sorcerer/magician/lackey/******nfrustrating bad guy....and I actually did get him almost dead when I died to the snake's attacks. Apparently, the snake took out the store-bought henchman without breaking a sweat. Death number five. ALL AT NORMAL DIFFICULTY WITH THE SAVAGE AT.
Needless to say, I'm a bit pissed at the moment. I take a break, alt-tabbing out to read up some strategy on this fight. All I took away from it was, "don't stand in the poison". Duh. I learned that from death number one. So, I go back, henchman out once more....but this time all I do is lunge attack the magician then haul butt out of the room entirely. Sure enough, the AI is dumb enough to follow me out of the room. This is where I actually kill that annoying little man.
Emboldened, and taking a look at the hench's health and feeling confident....I delve once more into the room of snake death....and begin to dance around the pillar(as I didn't pick flight) slashing away and watching health bars. At no time did the snake's get near halfway...and mine was bleeding like the Valdez tanker in the spill of the century. You guessed it, death number six.
I took a deep breath, waltzed back to the outer foyer and summoned miss darkity dark dark again, put her on agressive and ran in. I actually made it to the pillar before dying.
I probably should mention again...THIS IS ON NORMAL DIFFICULTY. I CHECKED SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY. The character is level 17....I should be done with this by now.
Seven deaths...and ten bucks spent on the store buying zen and heals along with a henchman later...I still haven't beaten this thing. I survey my losses and say "screw this", head back out to Mill City and drop that mish like a bad habit. I'm not even going to tell the story about my experience with Whiteout. Suffice to say....I died more there and I didn't even get to the final boss fight. I did make it to the final boss in the Quilopthic arc(or whatever it is)..but death found me repeatedly then too. To date, the ONLY one I've finished all the way through is the alternate dimension one.
So yeah. You people go ahead and cry the game is too easy for you. No sympathy from me. A whole lot of confusion, sure. Maybe we're playing different games.....I know my game play isn't that bad....Secret World is a hell of a lot tougher than this game as far as combat mechanics and build crafting goes...and I'm almost done with the main story arc there. I've got a star fleet captain at level 37 and a Klingon faction captain at 36.
Saint's Row the third has been beaten on all difficulty levels. Skyrim is proving to be the most fun I've had in a game in a long time(but that's only because it's heavily modded and wow, the graphics pop!).
I read "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT" and I......have to call bull. I've had nothing near a cakewalk in this game when doing anything other than regular storyline content in the city. Comic series or whatever they're called? Can't do. Desert content? I'm good for the street sweeping stuff, and a bit more...but I haven't done everything there is to do out there, for sure.
I'm really happy others can run through this stuff blindfolded and have minmaxed builds to be like gods among insects...but that's not me, nor is it my game experience with this game. Add these experiences up and I'm sure anyone would walk away sore. But...it's either this or DCUO or nothing.
Level 15 is generally regarded as the threshold for meaningful contribution to an Alert, i.e. in a party. 17 isn't too much higher, it hasn't even completed its first Specialization tree in fact. So I think for more difficult content you should expect that you'll need a party at that level.
Also, consider that the gearing system in this game is quite broken. Other MMOs have a power ramp. In CO it's more like a vertical power cliff from level 39 to 40. Once you pick up your Heroic gear set, Armadillo secondaries and stack like, 10,000HP on top of Elusive Monk, Rank 3 Regen and Devour Essence on your Savage AT, the game is going to feel like a cakewalk.
Until then I have to agree there will be points where you'll feel like an insect, and boy am I glad I picked up a nice vehicle with Incendiary Round and Railgun to skip that phase
Personally I think that level 17 was the problem.
AT's aren't complete till 40, especially the Savage which do needs its Devour Essence for surviving harder hitting bosses (as its defensive passive and active defence lacks any kind of dodge or damage resist).
So it's like luring this serpent mage close to the exit, smash him, block, use Resurgence and heal yourself with Devour Essence. Then proceed to snake still making use of your block, Resurgence and Devour Essence.
Another thing with this AT is also to have +dodge or +healing gear.
Our different experience may come from the fact that I'm not doing adventure packs before 30 lvl with freeforms, and not before 40 when I was using AT's.
Then I guess I'm misunderstanding. What do they mean by "homogenization"?
Powers of the same tier from various powersets really should have similar damage output/be equally desirable. If they already have similar damage output but ones are more desirable because of their additional effects, then maybe those effects should be tweaked up or down.
Yes, I know it would require a very heavy tweaking, so it's not really possible. In fact it's something that should be done at the very beginning, now it's a bit too late.
Also, situation when low tier power is much more powerful than higher tier powers is really strange. It really shouldn't be.
I read "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT" and I......have to call bull. I've had nothing near a cakewalk in this game when doing anything other than regular storyline content in the city. Comic series or whatever they're called? Can't do. Desert content? I'm good for the street sweeping stuff, and a bit more...but I haven't done everything there is to do out there, for sure.
.
Come team with me Clcy and bask in my greatness as I single handily take down the Endbringer with a Solider AT :P
Heres a few visual hints on how to improve your game.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Block. Really. That's all you can come up with, Neph? I'm not blocking? Take a long walk off a short pier.
YES I BLOCK. There are even these big, colorful signals the game flashes for WHEN to block, for cripessakes.
Y'know...until you actually team with me and observe my game play, or I make and post a video to youtube or dailymotion or somesuch.....how about not making game play suggestions. Better yet, take game play entirely out of the conversation and stick it somewhere that gets no sunlight or oxygen.
And Smoochie? I learned that fact the hard way, like everything else during that boss fight. Only takes me one time to learn when something isn't working or is killing me. I didn't know the rooms were filled with poison gas, but I knew that going in there did major damage really quickly after actually dodging into one. But actually, I was referring to the one central pillar that big arse reptile sits on. And minding the fire, too.
Also, to address the point someone made about "ATs don't really get good until you hit level cap"....I answer with this: The game starts when I log in and create/choose a character to play. Why do I have to wait until level cap to be able to play effectively?
So, it's not about "fair" but about balance. And that's a slippery slope indeed. Do you balance around the lowest common denominator to attract the most players or do you cater to the leet feets and make everything titanically epic and difficult?
Y'know...I told that tale not so you guys can pick it apart, but to demonstrate that SOMEONE THAT KNOWS GAME PLAY AND HOW TO PLAY STILL DIES IN THIS GAME.
Also, to address the point someone made about "ATs don't really get good until you hit level cap"....I answer with this: The game starts when I log in and create/choose a character to play. Why do I have to wait until level cap to be able to play effectively?
So, it's not about "fair" but about balance. And that's a slippery slope indeed. Do you balance around the lowest common denominator to attract the most players or do you cater to the leet feets and make everything titanically epic and difficult?
Because adventure packs and comic issues were also intended as a group oriented content. They are perfectly doable even at 11 lvl with a group of AT's. Soloing it is like a bit higher tier of difficulty (not necessarily with certain freeforms) and no wonder that toon without even half of its power progression can't do it.
Probably it really should be better explained ingame and it's a pity it isn't.
It's like... Doing old version of Deadmines in this Blizzard game solo as soon as it's available and wondering why a warrior with only shield bash and barely any talents can't do it.
Because adventure packs and comic issues were also intended as a group oriented content. They are perfectly doable even at 11 lvl with a group of AT's. Soloing it is like a bit higher tier of difficulty (not necessarily with certain freeforms) and no wonder that toon without even half of its power progression can't do it.
Probably it really should be better explained ingame and it's a pity it isn't.
It's like... Doing old version of Deadmines in this Blizzard game solo as soon as it's available and wondering why a warrior with only shield bash and barely any talents can't do it.
Except someone said, and I quote, "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT".
And in another thread,this was said of the difficulty. "There's too much evidence I can shove down everyones throats which prove the game (in any difficulty) is built for pansies, casual people as something more challenging who have mastered picking their nose and want the next level and archetypes."
Given how "easy" the entire game is....and the fact that according to your numbers I was six levels above the team requirement to finish the content...I should have. I've actually done it solo before, with The Mountain AT. At level 15 or 16. I simply could not repeat it with the Savage AT. But y'know what? I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is people trying to alter MY game play to suit THEIR notions of easy or difficult. Nor am I okay with other people insinuating that I don't even know a simple enough game mechanic like blocking. (Yes, I'm making hate face at you, Nepht!! :mad: )
I know i haven't played in like 4 months but not much has changed.
I have to ask the question.. why discuss "difficulty" until there is a measurable bar of build efficiency?
I have all R9 mods and use all Legion's Gear.. and my toon is still torn to shreds and not because it utilizes fewer T3 powers. Ego Storm, Celestial Cleanse, Mind Lock (moved to R2), Urthona's Charm, Mindful reinforcement.. you'd think these T3 powers would really make me good at.. something..
But alas Legion's Gear of Freedom is worthless
But alas there the T3 powers I chose PROBABLY shouldn't be T3
But alas if you don't have 10,000 HP (through bubbles or CON) you are made to die
But alas ...
But..
b..
I know I could change my build to be a Tank n Spank build.. but should I have to?
Block. Really. That's all you can come up with, Neph? I'm not blocking? Take a long walk off a short pier. <---- Made me grin alot due to the fact when I was a kid I used to practice diving from piers XD .
Clcy I just cant get my head around the fact you find Champions Online actually HARD when most of us Gold and Silver players alike find it easy. Seriously what AT are you using its not the Grimore is it? Whats you gear load out? ( avoidance gear is a must ) Do you have good mods and whats your device load out with the proper info we here might be able to help each other >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Except someone said, and I quote, "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT".
And in another thread,this was said of the difficulty. "There's too much evidence I can shove down everyones throats which prove the game (in any difficulty) is built for pansies, casual people as something more challenging who have mastered picking their nose and want the next level and archetypes."
Given how "easy" the entire game is....and the fact that according to your numbers I was six levels above the team requirement to finish the content...I should have. I've actually done it solo before, with The Mountain AT. At level 15 or 16. I simply could not repeat it with the Savage AT. But y'know what? I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is people trying to alter MY game play to suit THEIR notions of easy or difficult. Nor am I okay with other people insinuating that I don't even know a simple enough game mechanic like blocking. (Yes, I'm making hate face at you, Nepht!! :mad: )
Chill man, you posted here with regards to your issue with completing SL with a lvl 17 Savage AT so other forumites responded. Some of them have quirky posting habits. No need to blow your top over it. As you mentioned, some ATs survive better because of the defense. Someone else also mention it is meant for team. If your AT is at higher levels with relevant gear, mods, heals etc you should find it more manageable. Before on alert, I tried this with a level 40 inferno and guess what, face plant at the Serpent too. Go in with a tank and a healer and things may change. ATs are not really how this game was meant to be played unless you play as a balanced team. There are many more things which ATs will not be able to accomplish besides SL. For example, just watch how often ATs will face plant in Gravitar. This game is not designed with all content made for the lowest denominator. Neither are the contents made for elite toons. Most missions and leveling options can be accomplished quite easily by ATs. What is more lacking are actually the end game contents and there are many players with many lvl 40 toons with little to do. Which is probably what is giving you the impression that players are complaining that things are too easy.
Not all the ATs are balanced and that is a fact. Not all the powers are balanced and that is a fact too. Since this thread started with this question whether game should be fair then I will have to reply to those exact words. The game should be as fair as it can get. However, I also should point out that FAIR does not necessarily have the same meaning as BALANCED.
Simply put, would it be fair if someone pays $50,000 and gets to drive a car which another person pays $10,000 for? Is it fair if someone who worked for 12 hour days be rewarded the same amount as another who works 8 hour days doing the same job and at similar productivity.
This does not mean I do not believe in balance. However, I do not wish to type out a thesis on the issue of balance, power overhaul, balance pass etc because this issue has been debated to death already.
Chill man, you posted here with regards to your issue with completing SL with a lvl 17 Savage AT so other forumites responded. Some of them have quirky posting habits. No need to blow your top over it. As you mentioned, some ATs survive better because of the defense. Someone else also mention it is meant for team. If your AT is at higher levels with relevant gear, mods, heals etc you should find it more manageable.
So its a Savage... thats not a regular AT thats a premium one and its one of the more OP ones. After the Regeneration buff a few months back the savage has become BEASTLY.
But at only lvl 17 everyone dies a lot. Once his toon is at 40 with serious gear he will have no problems at all its a good AT that one ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
There is a central principal to every successful game (Board game, Childhood game, Game-mastered game, and Video game). The competition and potential for each player begins from a level playing field.
The Hero Games system, in my opinion, does quite a bit to try to manage abilities. It has general abilities that are able to be customized based on a points system. But even greater than the points system, there is a game-master who is responsible for the experience of the players, and when a player goes outside of the balance the GM has the ability to rein them in.
I constantly hear from people who claim that Champions Online will not (and SHOULD not) be balanced. In the forums, the conversation is constantly met with two opposing sides of Customization vs Balancers. I just want to take a current poll of what players feel about the current Champions Online.
I hate to give "suggestions" but the issues listed below have multiple approaches to the issue of inequality and bias. I will try to deconstruct them as much as possible offering not just MY solutions but others I've heard.
- -
Cited Champions Online Inequalities:
Travel Powers:
Acrobatics = 1 TP point = Increased Speed
Flight = 1 TP point = Increased Speed and Free Movement on Z Axis
Teleport = 1 TP point = Increased Speed and Free Movement on Z Axis and Invisibility
Should Teleport Cost the same amount of characterization points as Acrobatics? Could you instead charge a point for increased speed, another point for movement on the Z axis and yet another point to turn invisible?
Ranged Characters have 90ft advantage over melee of which a weak Crowd Control accentuates the disparity. Should Ranged powers cost more power points? Do less damage? Cause the caster to be stationary? Should all melee powers be mobile? Should the Melee DPS role have a default (aka costs nothing) crowd control mechanic?
Energy Maintenance has become a joke in champions online, making REC and END lose quite alot of usefulness compared to other stats. Should they review the energy cost/energy return system?
+Offense does much less than +Crits but they compete for the same gear slot. Should they remove the Diminishing Returns on +Offense or lower maximum crit chance/severity?
+Dodge does much more mitigation than +Defense.. both do much more that +CrowdControlResist yet they compete for the same gear slot.
Finally there is the issue of Build inequality. I personally want to see a stricter tier gating system that requires pre-requisite powers. This would both help new players in understanding the freeform system as well as help curb some of the frankenbuilds that happen in the current tiering system.
I am for the ability to choose between any and all of the frameworks available. Unfortunately the powers are not on their proper tiers, and beyond that the access to ANY power on ANY tier still exists for 7/13 of the choices available.
- -
I believe that Champions Online can be properly governed to become a game again. But to be a game, the competition and potential for each player begins from a level playing field.
If you feel that Champions Online Should NOT be balanced why do you feel this way?
If you feel that Champions Online SHOULD be balanced, what solutions can you offer?
P.S. - In no way do I, or should you, expect Cryptic Studios to act on the things said in this thread. It would cost too much money and has no guaranteed benefit.
What is balanced in one set of eyes is utterly unfair in another set. To some if they can't pwn anything everything with one shot the game is unbalanced. To others its if they can spend day and night farming for the best to be the best then its unfair that someone who don't have that time or "patience" to be able to reach that level of power in half the time and vice versa.
Wait...so you mean low level characters are less powerful than high level characters?
LOL
I don't often agree with you, Smoochan, but this time, I do.
Level 17 is a low-level character. At low levels, it is hard to deal with all situations. So, what do you do?
* Devices, especially consumable heals, henchmen, summons
* Team up--even with just one other hero with a different AT
* Very careful play
Sometimes, a low level AT can't finish a mission. Yep, that happens. I remember not being able to finish Demonflame solo with my level 24 Grimoire. I tried and tried and tried. Eventually, I just asked zone if anyone could help.
I quickly had a team of 4 heroes, and it was easy and fun.
On the unrelated side, the game could also use a proper gear progression trough all the levels.
Like having things like socketed gear, UNITY like, tailored to different level brackets, maybe obtainable for recognition or from lairs assigned to different level brackets.
It's a classic mmo solution for a reason - it's a very playable one.
It could be a nice solution for situations when you have to faceplant till 40 before having a chance for this +whatever gear needed for this build.
Also, as it forces to frequent gear changes while leveling, it gives a reason for sticking to game by actually playing outside of RenCen.
you really think the entire game should be balanced for a lvl 17? ...how quickly do you want the rest of us to fall asleep while playing?
Well, you certainly don't create a character at level 40, do you? Certainly not. One must slog through the lower levels to get there, and if the game isn't balanced ALL THE WAY THROUGH....how much retention do you honestly think it'll have?
On the unrelated side, the game could also use a proper gear progression trough all the levels.
Like having things like socketed gear, UNITY like, tailored to different level brackets, maybe obtainable for recognition or from lairs assigned to different level brackets.
It's a classic mmo solution for a reason - it's a very playable one.
It could be a nice solution for situations when you have to faceplant till 40 before having a chance for this +whatever gear needed for this build.
Also, as it forces to frequent gear changes while leveling, it gives a reason for sticking to game by actually playing outside of RenCen.
Would you believe that they already did a gear pass after On Alert of all the gear you get while doing missions? I think at first we were all actually quite pleased with it. Wonder what happened since then.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Comments
And it is possible. It's not like having primary SS other than Ego/Str or not having dedicated toggle form can't be substituted otherwise?
But it's only an example.
Wanting a better, more logical and playable game doesn't equal wanting to everyone playing an archetype. Some of us still are making theme toons, (despite having as well a copied powerbuild or two just for farming) which is impossible with AT even when staying withing one/two powersets and you should know it very well.
Meanwhile your weak attempts at being insulting and your passive-aggressiveness only proves that you indeed are fine with present state of the game mechanics, that's why you are defending it.
But no matter how many times you will tell to yourself that everything is fine - it isn't and CO isn't any special flower amongst other games, the one which made mechanics more original and better.
It's broken. Deny it as long as you want, it doesn't change anything.
Unfortunately your idea does equal to encouraging players to use freeform to play glorified archetypes. It might be logical to you, but it sure as heck isn't to me and not why I play freeform.
If I wanted to be insulting, trust me, you'd get it.
And since when did I say "everything is fine"? Like I appreciate having words put in my mouth.
You're right about one specific thing; It doesn't change anything and I'm glad for it.
Don't we have Ranged, Melee and Hybrid roles for a reason?
Not the Hero System.
This game, and much of the superhero genre, is not about powerset (and specialization therein), but rather about character concept. There is nothing inherently about a pistol wielding mage that makes him OP compared to either a pure gun wielder or pure mage requiring him to be gimped by either locking him out of higher tier powers or charging him significantly more for them.
If versatility actually provided significant game advantage then a system designed to provide a specialist with a competitive advantage would make sense. But the reality of the matter is that taking powers from multiple sets for theme does not inherently provide any advantage. In fact it can be extremely detrimental to the effectiveness of a build.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
It's not possible to have a character equally "as good" at range and melee, because the two offensive roles have differing damage bonuses.
If you go Balanced, you're losing out on one of the game's only remaining multiplicative damage bonuses (for either ranged or melee).
So you already have the ability, within the game as it currently stands, for someone who is "equally as good at melee and range" to be outclassed in melee or range by someone who specializes only in melee or only in range.
Now, if you're making the argument that "oh, well the Balanced Role character is more durable and does sufficient damage to where specializing isn't worth it"...then you're basically saying that the benefits of specialization aren't worth it, not that specialization isn't possible.
The softcaps on Ego/Str make specializing in them as a defining component of your build for what the stats themselves do not really worth it. If you major one, you're doing it for the spec trees, which are both quite good. But still, it's not as if you can make use of two of the superstat trees at once.
They need to homogenize the boring/necessary/build foundation powers (heals, defenses, passives, etc) and then diversify the stuff that makes people actually make builds around (usually attacks, sometimes a crowd control shtick or healing or a semi-unique way to tank).
In a game as heavily combat-reliant as CO, your attacks are the main way you interact with the world. Supportive/build-foundation/"boring" powers should be more theme-variable and open to more themes, to let people build with what attacks/visual effects they want while still having a solid foundation no matter what they do.
The alternative is trying to make someone who does a self-rooting 50-ft maintained AoE with high energy cost upkeep have the same capacity for survival in general content as someone who has a 100-ft charged AoE alpha-spike that can let their energy regen after everything dies in one or two shots.
Making those two types of mechanics equal in worth is far harder than just saying "okay, here's some fire-themed survival tools if you don't want to use Protection Field".
"Why yes, Feed on Flames is a heal that gives you health back when you burn things. You're made of fire/cosmically-powered by flame/a guy in an expensive thermo-suit/a pyro that gets off on burning things, it makes sense."
Boring but necessary stuff should be as thematically mutable as possible. No, it's not "ideal", but short of reworking all the mechanics, it's the next-best solution while still maintaining "be the hero you want to be" and the freeform system.
Then again, I'd also be a fan of making a dedicated passive slot and low-tier attack slot (without taking away existing powers). Power creep is less bad when it's balanced by the opportunity cost of only being able to use one attack at a time.
Neverwinter's "at-will", "encounter" and "daily" power tiering (along with the Control Wizard's tab-slot Spell Mastery thing) is an idea that, with some tweaks, might actually do some good here, as a possible alternative.
(I'm using Neverwinter as an example because it uses a lot of features that are similar to On Alert)
Let you pick whatever individual powers you want (like current freeform or even with no power tier restrictions), but let where you place them give them a bonus or certain features.
Here's an example off the top of my head of what I think that could look like:
15 powers total. Power tiers for unlocking use the current setup. A few dedicated slots can only be filled with certain types of powers, and you get an additional power choice when the slot gets unlocked.
Other slots (the rest) can take any type of power. Your power choices can be picked without slotting them, powers in slots can be swapped outside of combat (kinda like passives now).
Power Slots:
So out of the tutorial, you start out with a slotted passive, an end builder, a non-end-builder attack, a passive energy unlock and another power of your choice.
You then get your remaining 11 power picks as normal, at the following levels for freeform characters:
8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38
The power choices at levels 11, 17, 26 and 35 each also unlock a special type of power slot called "Signature Slots". These are places you can slot powers to make them have an enhanced effect, and are intended for powers that your character really likes or that are iconic for them. (mostly attacks)
You don't have to use these Signature Slots if you choose not to, as there are still enough tray slots to not use them. (two rows of 10 slots is 20, minus 2 slots for end builder and dedicated attack, minus 4 signature slots leaves you with 14 slots for 11 powers). Signature keybind slots can be remapped as normal.
A power placed in a signature slot cannot also be placed in a non-signature slot (kinda like you can't have the same power in two different places at once)
Powers in this slot have a 120 second lockout before being used again, regardless of cooldown reduction.
The above's an attempt to encourage people to take more attacks by shifting some of the boring/necessary build framework stuff to other spots, and grant bonuses that only apply to attacks. And since (for the signatures), putting the power into the slot is what grants the boost, you have a bit of variability in what powers you're using where, even within the same build.
Could probably also come up with options for crowd control and healing at some point. Goal of this was mainly to ease the inclusion of the "boring" stuff and provide ways to buff low-tier powers specifically.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Any patient can tell you they have a sore throat, their eyes feel dry and their nose is running. However, not everyone can first, identify the root problem based on the symptoms described and second, recommend a cure that will solve the problem with minimal damage to the patient.
I can say something like:
But that's quack advice. Solves the problem, but I don't think that's the right way to do it. I'm sure many people will agree.
I don't want to touch the can of worms that is legacy devices either. They are strong, but at the same time people may have paid thousands of G or hundreds in USD to acquire them. Imagine their reaction if they get nerfed.
So that complicates things as well, because it's not just about playing game doctor, it's also about being a politician and making as many people happy as possible, while convincing the people who are unhappy that it is a pill they have to swallow.
Can you confidently say you can do both? I think you've made your stand on the current game balance clear in many threads over many months. The current situation isn't ideal, just about everyone wants to see change, but as jennymachx asks, "so what's your solution?"
I believe the first step to a solution is to get Cryptic's attention and establish yourself as an authority on game design who knows CO very well. That way, your voice holds a bit more weight and they might actually listen. Once you get their ear, it should be easier to get something going. But I don't profess to be an expert or a politician, so I will gladly leave that responsibility to someone else.
That's more like it my actual opinion about it. While it's possible to specialise, benefits of it simply aren't good enough to encourage it.
And this is something I can get behind.
See, that's another problem people have. They present doing one thing at a time as a solution... then oddly enough they give a reason why doing that one thing only would not work. So... why even bother trying to represent this one thing at a time process if you know it's not a solution? Also, why try to present it as the solution that the person you're talking to is trying to push, when it's clear that they're not? It's almost like you're not actually interested in the solution and just want to be right about balance being impossible...
Obviously, you can't just say "okay we're just going to go around nerfing things.." and achieve balance, because not everything needs to be nerfed, some need to be buffed. Some don't need a nerf or a buff, they just need to be changed. Just doing one or the other across the board doesn't work, for obvious reasons.
Denying power combinations is obviously a terrible idea, and in fact I believe they need to make the freeform system more open by removing the tiers system. It's obvious that at one time the tiers were meant to help provide some amount of balance by restricting what powers you could take together, but it no longer does that.
Furthermore, just adjusting what we have now isn't good enough either, though of course it is part of the solution; many power sets are just missing things they need and the best way to remedy that is to add new powers. Not just powers that are copy-paste versions of what other power sets have with new skins, no, new powers that work in fun and interesting ways and fill a gap in that powerset.
It's important to realize the difference between powerset and theme. Theme doesn't require that the player stay within a powerset, and in fact many themes require powers from multiple power sets, so the idea is not to somehow prevent cherry picking; just to make it not required. The core idea behind balancing needs to be to expand the amount of choices that players have while creating their chosen hero, so that they can both create the hero they want and be as effective as others.
There's a tendency of people, when they say "theres no way all builds can be equal" to be, quite honestly, thinking of some pretty stupid builds. The statement is of course true when you say "Oh well if someone takes fourteen aoe powers how do you make them as effective as another build?", but fact is that is an unrealistic and irrellivent statement. The point isn't to make every conceivable silly little purposely bad build that you could imagine, that no one is actually using, viable; the point is to make it so there isn't a very small pool of best builds that drastically outperform everything else by providing players more tools to make their own new builds better while staying within their theme.
As far as what my specific ideas are for fixing the game, there are plenty... so many I'm sure it would test the character limit on forum posts many times over. The thing is, you can't just write down the solution, it's a process that involves a lot of testing; I guess that would be the first step in my plan, get someone on staff who's willing to actually go through that process and somehow keep them from being placed on the NWO team. As far as typing out all my ideas... that would be a lot of work, and I'm not being paid... wink wink nudge nudge.
Relevant statement: "If we allow men to marry men, what's next... men marrying horses?" - said by some politician.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Me as well (the broad strokes idea).
The largest factor I find is self-buffing. There are so many self-buffs (heals included) that are simply not regulated. The Slotted Passive and Buff Forms had (for the most part) been balanced and given exclusivity. But there is a need to classify and standardize how buffs work MORE than there is a need to figure out how powers work. If these buffs were given at "Signature Slots" this could make building much more regulated in itself.
Again I submit that there is a foundation problem, building on a bad foundation is bad architecture.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Dark souls is totally fair. You just suck.
And by you, I mean me, I was never able too get anything accomplished past the first boss :redface: ...but the game is still 100% fair. Let's definitely not start pushing ideas like "Anything that takes skill is unfair" !
When it comes to CO, it's exactly like you say... the game is a cakewalk, so how do you even gauge fairness? We only see if the game is fair when we wander into a situation where your power level actually matters...and currently, there's little to nothing that does that here.
So the question isn't "Is CO fair?".. the real question is "How can we even test if CO is fair?"
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
My question is broader. I cited examples of why I believe Champions Online is unfair. But there is so much compliance with this bias and I wanted to find out why?
The only two schools of thought I could think are is that
1) There are those who think the game should be biased
2) There are those who are being silent about the bias for some reason.
I'm sure there are more examples of bias than those I cite in the Original Post. I don't really understand anyone saying "Champions Online is fair"
I fully understand the need for a game such as this to make things balanced. People have a tendency to want their characters to feel powerful. I know I do. The problem is, how do you make your might character feel powerful knowing that every other might character is just as powerful?
Champions has done a pretty decent job of dealing with this in the gear options. Being able to get the level 8 and 9 mods on your gear is insanely hard without pulling out the credit card... but it does up the 'uber factor' a bit. However, I do think that there is some work to be done when comparing ranged powers to melee. I remember in COH how I wished I could make a powerhouse who felt powerful. Sure as I put a lot of IO?s on, I could make a very durable tank, but he was gimped damage-wise. Soloing Archvillains was a slow, slow, slow process, but I never faceplanted
In CO it?s a bit better. My ?tanks? do feel much more powerful? until I play one of my DPS toons. My semi-optimized level 40 freeform electric build can put out roughly 3 or more times the damage in the same amount of time as my level 40 freeform might build, which I have cranked up everything trying to increase damage. And while not AS durable as the might build, she?s not too far from it.
This doesn?t seem consistent with comic book heroes. A Hulk, Juggernaut, or Superman is the type of powerhouse I expect from the might powerset, these characters are capable of damaging entire cities while easily absorbing silly amounts of damage. But, damage-wise my level 40 might (who has almost 700 strength and 450+ offense) feels not much more than Spiderman strong. Nothing to sneeze at, but certainly not amazing-feats-of-strength strong. Not I -can-pound-you-into-oblivion strong. And not even close to I?m-strong-enough-to-save-or-destroy-the-world strong. (Please Devs, give us some aircraft carriers to lift! As maxed out toons, we need to feel truly epic in our powers.)
That?s my long winded way of saying that Might should be brought up to the same damage levels as ranged power :biggrin:.
I do think that tiers should be kept, otherwise I can imagine people having nothing but the most potent powers. Since I build characters that I would want to see in a comic, I choose power based on what might be cool for the character.
I also think that travel powers need some tweaking. I really get annoyed that most have to speed up in increments. No DC or Marvel flyers I know of have to accrue speed slowly?there are no restrictions on how much of their flight speed they have access to. I think that this mechanic should be removed, but keep the threat on. I'm no expert on the mechanics, but I know there?s balancing work that would be needed to make this happen, but I totally think it?d be worth it.
I have one character that?s got TP, for thematic reasons. IMO, COH had TP down perfect? it was the fastest transportation power, but it had its limitations to keep it balanced. Mostly it just FELT right. CO?s TP is flying for a few seconds while invisible? there?s no spontaneity to it? it is certainly not the TP that we?ve seen with Nightcrawler (having a TP powerset ala Nightcrawler would be sweet!).
Acrobatics is my favorite leveling transportation power, and superjump is my favorite overall. Flight is great thematically but kinda boring otherwise? swinging is also a lot of fun, even if it?s real work getting somewhere. I always try to see how many flips I can do
Just my 2 cents. Food for thought. Or maybe general nonsense. Time will tell.
I guessing none of you heroes have seen this perk then.
They all do I just seem immune to rage quit :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Then I must REALLY suck, because at the default difficulty, I could not beat the end bosses in The Serpent Lantern final mish with my Savage/Claws/Whateveritscalled AT.
I honestly don't get how so many people say this game is so damn easy. I've died -plenty- of times with both freeforms and AT's.
Game seems plenty fair and balanced to me.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=219321
read this persons idea of an at and balance.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'm sorry. I stopped reading at "based on power ranger".
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
People get enthusiastic about characters that they like. Not a big deal as long as devs don't just blindly rubberstamp them, and as long as the player is willing to take criticism of his creation without getting defensive.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I did every Adventure Pack and Comic Issue with the Savage AT with no problems (not on elite, though), the only exception being Resistance where spike damage from few bosses it too much to survive with Regen only.
But otherwise - no problems, with Whiteout being a cakewalk.
Actually, if any Silver player want's to buy a single AT for farming and easy PvE, while being also very easy to play in general sense, then the Savage is probably the best AT.
I don't believe that any of my freeform builds died maybe... More than six times at their way to 40 and they aren't any hardcore powerbuilds, though not purely thematic either. And it was only when I did something really stupid like aggroing too much enemies.
The only of my toons which earned any perk for dying was my (back then) Soldier, but it was before On Alert. We were playing Whiteout for a first time with me and only other teammate being the Marksman and both toons were 12 or near to it (can't recall). Though we finally succeeded faceplanting was unavoidable, but it was hell of fun.
CO isn't very difficult game even with an AT, only thing you need is to pay attention how many mobs at once you are trying to kill.
The end boss in SL is one of those few and far between exceptions to the rule; it actually does enough damage that it could give you some trouble. It's entirely possible that all the easy stuff before that point had lulled you into a half-asleep state, and then the acid spit from the snake caught you off guard while you were dreaming about going on a date with <insert someone you think is cute here>.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Yeah what I find easy and what another person finds easy might obviously be two different things. I tend to go straight to 8 stars when ever I play Streetfighter II
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I would find a game like that very boring. What I love about CO is the ability to create unique characters by mixing and matching powers from different powersets.
This seems like a huge exaggeration. I agree the system could use a bit more balance, but I still find the game to be a great deal of fun.
With all due respect, if you really believe this, why are you still playing?
That's not what they're saying.
fyi, for the most part, currently the only real difference between powersets is cosmetic.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
In fact, many powersets actually have the bulk of their synergies in-set, e.g. Fire with Fireball + Conflag + Fire Snake + Heat Wave and Lightning with Negative Ion appliers and users.
Usually the frankensteining happens when trying to shore up survivability, or in PvP builds where the aim is to raise burst DPS at the cost of sustainable DPS.
Edit: Also, can the SL end boss do anything at 100ft? Just wondering, for the past 6 months my SL has been permanently at Freon's bunker for *ahem* convenience
Actually.....no. When I entered the room, my intent was to take out the human standing there first and move on to take out the snake. Except...I stepped into the room and did a lunge type attack to the human....and died.
After rezzing I returned to the room, hellbent on making things die. Just didn't know it was going to me me again, this time only a bit slower. I lunged, danced and dodged a few times around the room, trying to get a few whacks in on the human....and to my credit, I did whittle him down halfway....but dead again.
I'm getting a bit peeved now, so I use some zen to purchase those heal doohickeys from the store. Guess what? They kept me alive long enough to regret buying them. Death number three, and the human lackey guy is still breathing. I haven't even TOUCHED the snake.
So. Attempt number four....and I spend yet MORE money in the store to get a companion. The darkety dark dark companion, whom I summon and then lunge again at the human, figuring she'll last long enough for me to take out the sorcerer/magician/lackey/******nfrustrating bad guy....and I actually did get him almost dead when I died to the snake's attacks. Apparently, the snake took out the store-bought henchman without breaking a sweat. Death number five. ALL AT NORMAL DIFFICULTY WITH THE SAVAGE AT.
Needless to say, I'm a bit pissed at the moment. I take a break, alt-tabbing out to read up some strategy on this fight. All I took away from it was, "don't stand in the poison". Duh. I learned that from death number one. So, I go back, henchman out once more....but this time all I do is lunge attack the magician then haul butt out of the room entirely. Sure enough, the AI is dumb enough to follow me out of the room. This is where I actually kill that annoying little man.
Emboldened, and taking a look at the hench's health and feeling confident....I delve once more into the room of snake death....and begin to dance around the pillar(as I didn't pick flight) slashing away and watching health bars. At no time did the snake's get near halfway...and mine was bleeding like the Valdez tanker in the spill of the century. You guessed it, death number six.
I took a deep breath, waltzed back to the outer foyer and summoned miss darkity dark dark again, put her on agressive and ran in. I actually made it to the pillar before dying.
I probably should mention again...THIS IS ON NORMAL DIFFICULTY. I CHECKED SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY. The character is level 17....I should be done with this by now.
Seven deaths...and ten bucks spent on the store buying zen and heals along with a henchman later...I still haven't beaten this thing. I survey my losses and say "screw this", head back out to Mill City and drop that mish like a bad habit. I'm not even going to tell the story about my experience with Whiteout. Suffice to say....I died more there and I didn't even get to the final boss fight. I did make it to the final boss in the Quilopthic arc(or whatever it is)..but death found me repeatedly then too. To date, the ONLY one I've finished all the way through is the alternate dimension one.
So yeah. You people go ahead and cry the game is too easy for you. No sympathy from me. A whole lot of confusion, sure. Maybe we're playing different games.....I know my game play isn't that bad....Secret World is a hell of a lot tougher than this game as far as combat mechanics and build crafting goes...and I'm almost done with the main story arc there. I've got a star fleet captain at level 37 and a Klingon faction captain at 36.
Saint's Row the third has been beaten on all difficulty levels. Skyrim is proving to be the most fun I've had in a game in a long time(but that's only because it's heavily modded and wow, the graphics pop!).
I read "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT" and I......have to call bull. I've had nothing near a cakewalk in this game when doing anything other than regular storyline content in the city. Comic series or whatever they're called? Can't do. Desert content? I'm good for the street sweeping stuff, and a bit more...but I haven't done everything there is to do out there, for sure.
I'm really happy others can run through this stuff blindfolded and have minmaxed builds to be like gods among insects...but that's not me, nor is it my game experience with this game. Add these experiences up and I'm sure anyone would walk away sore. But...it's either this or DCUO or nothing.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Level 15 is generally regarded as the threshold for meaningful contribution to an Alert, i.e. in a party. 17 isn't too much higher, it hasn't even completed its first Specialization tree in fact. So I think for more difficult content you should expect that you'll need a party at that level.
Also, consider that the gearing system in this game is quite broken. Other MMOs have a power ramp. In CO it's more like a vertical power cliff from level 39 to 40. Once you pick up your Heroic gear set, Armadillo secondaries and stack like, 10,000HP on top of Elusive Monk, Rank 3 Regen and Devour Essence on your Savage AT, the game is going to feel like a cakewalk.
Until then I have to agree there will be points where you'll feel like an insect, and boy am I glad I picked up a nice vehicle with Incendiary Round and Railgun to skip that phase
AT's aren't complete till 40, especially the Savage which do needs its Devour Essence for surviving harder hitting bosses (as its defensive passive and active defence lacks any kind of dodge or damage resist).
So it's like luring this serpent mage close to the exit, smash him, block, use Resurgence and heal yourself with Devour Essence. Then proceed to snake still making use of your block, Resurgence and Devour Essence.
Another thing with this AT is also to have +dodge or +healing gear.
Our different experience may come from the fact that I'm not doing adventure packs before 30 lvl with freeforms, and not before 40 when I was using AT's.
It doesn't seem that way to me. There seem to be many powers that have no exact duplicates in other powersets.
Yes, I know it would require a very heavy tweaking, so it's not really possible. In fact it's something that should be done at the very beginning, now it's a bit too late.
Also, situation when low tier power is much more powerful than higher tier powers is really strange. It really shouldn't be.
wait... when you say "dancing around the pillars".... do you mean the side rooms that are filled with poison gas that kill you really fast?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Come team with me Clcy and bask in my greatness as I single handily take down the Endbringer with a Solider AT :P
Heres a few visual hints on how to improve your game.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
YES I BLOCK. There are even these big, colorful signals the game flashes for WHEN to block, for cripessakes.
Y'know...until you actually team with me and observe my game play, or I make and post a video to youtube or dailymotion or somesuch.....how about not making game play suggestions. Better yet, take game play entirely out of the conversation and stick it somewhere that gets no sunlight or oxygen.
And Smoochie? I learned that fact the hard way, like everything else during that boss fight. Only takes me one time to learn when something isn't working or is killing me. I didn't know the rooms were filled with poison gas, but I knew that going in there did major damage really quickly after actually dodging into one. But actually, I was referring to the one central pillar that big arse reptile sits on. And minding the fire, too.
Also, to address the point someone made about "ATs don't really get good until you hit level cap"....I answer with this: The game starts when I log in and create/choose a character to play. Why do I have to wait until level cap to be able to play effectively?
So, it's not about "fair" but about balance. And that's a slippery slope indeed. Do you balance around the lowest common denominator to attract the most players or do you cater to the leet feets and make everything titanically epic and difficult?
Y'know...I told that tale not so you guys can pick it apart, but to demonstrate that SOMEONE THAT KNOWS GAME PLAY AND HOW TO PLAY STILL DIES IN THIS GAME.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Probably it really should be better explained ingame and it's a pity it isn't.
It's like... Doing old version of Deadmines in this Blizzard game solo as soon as it's available and wondering why a warrior with only shield bash and barely any talents can't do it.
Except someone said, and I quote, "the game is a cakewalk with a regular AT".
And in another thread,this was said of the difficulty. "There's too much evidence I can shove down everyones throats which prove the game (in any difficulty) is built for pansies, casual people as something more challenging who have mastered picking their nose and want the next level and archetypes."
Given how "easy" the entire game is....and the fact that according to your numbers I was six levels above the team requirement to finish the content...I should have. I've actually done it solo before, with The Mountain AT. At level 15 or 16. I simply could not repeat it with the Savage AT. But y'know what? I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is people trying to alter MY game play to suit THEIR notions of easy or difficult. Nor am I okay with other people insinuating that I don't even know a simple enough game mechanic like blocking. (Yes, I'm making hate face at you, Nepht!! :mad: )
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I have to ask the question.. why discuss "difficulty" until there is a measurable bar of build efficiency?
I have all R9 mods and use all Legion's Gear.. and my toon is still torn to shreds and not because it utilizes fewer T3 powers. Ego Storm, Celestial Cleanse, Mind Lock (moved to R2), Urthona's Charm, Mindful reinforcement.. you'd think these T3 powers would really make me good at.. something..
But alas Legion's Gear of Freedom is worthless
But alas there the T3 powers I chose PROBABLY shouldn't be T3
But alas if you don't have 10,000 HP (through bubbles or CON) you are made to die
But alas ...
But..
b..
I know I could change my build to be a Tank n Spank build.. but should I have to?
Clcy I just cant get my head around the fact you find Champions Online actually HARD when most of us Gold and Silver players alike find it easy. Seriously what AT are you using its not the Grimore is it? Whats you gear load out? ( avoidance gear is a must ) Do you have good mods and whats your device load out with the proper info we here might be able to help each other >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Chill man, you posted here with regards to your issue with completing SL with a lvl 17 Savage AT so other forumites responded. Some of them have quirky posting habits. No need to blow your top over it. As you mentioned, some ATs survive better because of the defense. Someone else also mention it is meant for team. If your AT is at higher levels with relevant gear, mods, heals etc you should find it more manageable. Before on alert, I tried this with a level 40 inferno and guess what, face plant at the Serpent too. Go in with a tank and a healer and things may change. ATs are not really how this game was meant to be played unless you play as a balanced team. There are many more things which ATs will not be able to accomplish besides SL. For example, just watch how often ATs will face plant in Gravitar. This game is not designed with all content made for the lowest denominator. Neither are the contents made for elite toons. Most missions and leveling options can be accomplished quite easily by ATs. What is more lacking are actually the end game contents and there are many players with many lvl 40 toons with little to do. Which is probably what is giving you the impression that players are complaining that things are too easy.
Not all the ATs are balanced and that is a fact. Not all the powers are balanced and that is a fact too. Since this thread started with this question whether game should be fair then I will have to reply to those exact words. The game should be as fair as it can get. However, I also should point out that FAIR does not necessarily have the same meaning as BALANCED.
Simply put, would it be fair if someone pays $50,000 and gets to drive a car which another person pays $10,000 for? Is it fair if someone who worked for 12 hour days be rewarded the same amount as another who works 8 hour days doing the same job and at similar productivity.
This does not mean I do not believe in balance. However, I do not wish to type out a thesis on the issue of balance, power overhaul, balance pass etc because this issue has been debated to death already.
you really think the entire game should be balanced for a lvl 17? ...how quickly do you want the rest of us to fall asleep while playing?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
So its a Savage... thats not a regular AT thats a premium one and its one of the more OP ones. After the Regeneration buff a few months back the savage has become BEASTLY.
But at only lvl 17 everyone dies a lot. Once his toon is at 40 with serious gear he will have no problems at all its a good AT that one ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
What is balanced in one set of eyes is utterly unfair in another set. To some if they can't pwn anything everything with one shot the game is unbalanced. To others its if they can spend day and night farming for the best to be the best then its unfair that someone who don't have that time or "patience" to be able to reach that level of power in half the time and vice versa.
Wait...so you mean low level characters are less powerful than high level characters?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If only there was a way to fix that particular shortcoming.
LOL
I don't often agree with you, Smoochan, but this time, I do.
Level 17 is a low-level character. At low levels, it is hard to deal with all situations. So, what do you do?
* Devices, especially consumable heals, henchmen, summons
* Team up--even with just one other hero with a different AT
* Very careful play
Sometimes, a low level AT can't finish a mission. Yep, that happens. I remember not being able to finish Demonflame solo with my level 24 Grimoire. I tried and tried and tried. Eventually, I just asked zone if anyone could help.
I quickly had a team of 4 heroes, and it was easy and fun.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Like having things like socketed gear, UNITY like, tailored to different level brackets, maybe obtainable for recognition or from lairs assigned to different level brackets.
It's a classic mmo solution for a reason - it's a very playable one.
It could be a nice solution for situations when you have to faceplant till 40 before having a chance for this +whatever gear needed for this build.
Also, as it forces to frequent gear changes while leveling, it gives a reason for sticking to game by actually playing outside of RenCen.
Well, you certainly don't create a character at level 40, do you? Certainly not. One must slog through the lower levels to get there, and if the game isn't balanced ALL THE WAY THROUGH....how much retention do you honestly think it'll have?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Would you believe that they already did a gear pass after On Alert of all the gear you get while doing missions? I think at first we were all actually quite pleased with it. Wonder what happened since then.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.