At the very least, I can see a level 11 minimum for Alerts, since APs require that.
In general, I have no problem w/ *anybody* doing alerts at any level, provided they are competent and play intelligently. Since, however, we are basically dealing with the public here, some guidelines need to be put in place to better control those who don't possess these qualities.
I wonder if they could do a sort of "alert achievement" system, where you unlock access to certain types of alerts by accomplishing something in-game. For instance, completing 10 regular missions unlocks access to smashes. Completing an instanced mission without dying grants access to the grabs. Equipping 1 of each primary piece of gear grants access to bursts, etc.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
My biggest problem with the entire on alert update and alert system in general is the fact that it took out incentive to do any of the other content aside from collecting those cowboy tokens in the west for action figures.
Wanna collect devices from overworld bosses? NOPE they're all in grab bags that can only be baught by buying grab bag keys and collecting grab bag trash to put together to get a grab bag.
PVP collector? NOPE GONE.
Special 1 of a kind quest rewards? NOPE! GONE, ALL QUEST REWARDS ARE NOW RANDOMLY GENERATED TRASH GEAR. Or you can get a token instead that you can spend on costume pieces you might not even care about.
It was cool that they spread and added some travel powers that were exclusive and gave you a means to get them, and even the whole questionite store.
But taking away any meaninful rewards for doing content other than alerts you end up only leaving alerts as the only worth a damn content.
"Why;d it have to be Purple" isn't too painful, and so are the next couple.
But to hell if I'm going to sit through "Thick as Thieves" for the hundredth time, much less going all the way up to 15 or so on Westside again. It was fresh - back when I started, and then for a while after the big Westside revision.
But now? Gods no, I'm not going to sit through it again and waste my gaming time to appease someone else. I paid good money for my LTS, an I've pulled my share of lowbies through alerts without complaint. I only bail o nan alert if there's no feasible way its being won - when the boss has 2 health bars left at 30 seconds? Yeah, sorry, bye - so when I hear people indignantly talking about lowbies in Alerts, well, it just makes me ignore them and carry on. I've seen Alerts won with time to spare by four, even three good players, so if they want to ragequit over some poor soul not wanting to suffer through Westside again (as hey, its that or alerts, at least until level 11) - that's their perogative.
Long and short, OP? Do what you please - you paid for the game in some form or another, and if you want to run your damned lowbies in alerts, run your damned lowbies in alerts and to hell with the whiners.
Who gives a damn about if you have bought a lts?
Low level characters do not belong anywhere near, warlord or hi - pan.
But taking away any meaninful rewards for doing content other than alerts you end up only leaving alerts as the only worth a damn content.
No one except gear grinders were playing the normal content *before* alerts were added. The original content is mind-numbingly bad cookie-cuter MMO cliche Kill X of Y missions that most people had seen so many times in so many other games that they were sick of it *before* CO was ever even in alpha. It was certainly a major issue beginning in closed beta.
There are reasons why CO's original head Dev is no longer with the company and that God awful content was a big one.
Before alerts, players just left the game. Now at least they have an option to play CO while avoiding that content.
I understand that there are die-hards out there who will *never* get sick of these types of MMO cliche missions, but even given that, I see no reason to direct potential customers to that stuff by filling it with unique rewards.
I wonder if anyone's made a character and leveled to max without leaving the tutorial.
Should be POSSIBLE, and I think you could use a hideout to funnel gear to the character... ?
I got bored, did exactly that.
Heirloom gear, sitting on spawn and never even did the first mission where you talk to the cop guy or socrates. Just went straight to the eggs, killed those to level 6, then farmed alerts.
It was...Interesting, when I one hit level 1's with my EB...
No one except gear grinders were playing the normal content *before* alerts were added.
So, now I'm a "gear grinder"?
You know, some of us play the normal content because we like the storyline (well, once you're out of Westside, anyway). I haven't even discovered all the lore, because I keep running different missions in different places. I'm going to have to actually go all the way through Canada sometime, and discover the sasquatch the way you're supposed to, instead of happening upon them while trying to find a shortcut to somewhere else...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Last time I was active, I had one character go on the FAR side of Monster Island (western side) and start doing that content -- after many characters, I hadn't ever gotten around to it, sidelined into Lemuria (which I actually like) and then Vibora Bay.
It was fun, and different.
I don't think people should be forced to do regular mission content, but I wish it was more... competitive. It feels that Alerts don't properly balance the ease of 'sign up wherever' with the XP rewards -- the rewards of regular missions should be balanced with the amount of running around you end up doing.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
So just finished an alert, level 6 to level 7, and i had a bit of hate for it, because i am level 6.
Now i understand that the general consensus is that to join an alert you need to be a minimum level of 15, if that's the case, and i don't dispute this, why are they accessible to the lower levels?
Think of it this way, i have been a paying subscriber for 3 years since early beta in fact, and in all the years i played city of heroes as well, i have never come across players who tell you how to play, regardless of level or condition your character is in.
I am bringing this discussion up because i was made to feel unwelcome to a game that i pay for, and i can't imagine the free players getting this kind of rubbish either, it's not on, it's not right and not welcoming at all.
If these alerts are designed for higher levels then i propose that the devs look into locking the alerts for level 15 min upwards, if not then i propose that the devs scale the alerts to the actual level of the character.
This is not one of those "can't have fun guys" posts or "play my way or no way" kind of posts.
This is a genuine concern because it is attracting big hate towards players like myself, and giving a bad name and vibe to the company, right now my options are just leaving this game and go play DCUO regardless of peoples opinions on that game, i shouldn't have to.
I won't name the people in question but i don't blame them for their response, i actually agree with them in hindsight, even though i prefer to level quicker that way, and i have not lost a single xp alert yet.
This needs to be sorted asap, i hope the devs read this post and give it a look, and at least consider some kind of action, not towards players, but towards the alerts, i seen a post that a guy wanted alerts gone, that is just wrong, it's not the alerts that's the problem, or the players, it's because of the scaling or requirement issue.
We should not be hating each other or making each other feel unwelcome, i love this game, iv'e grown to this game, iv'e made friends on this game, let's make it better together, and try to influence the devs that this change is needed so that we work together and have fun rather than giving each other a hard time over a game.
SypherV
Well met good sir. Words of wisdom.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No one except gear grinders were playing the normal content *before* alerts were added. The original content is mind-numbingly bad cookie-cuter MMO cliche Kill X of Y missions that most people had seen so many times in so many other games that they were sick of it *before* CO was ever even in alpha. It was certainly a major issue beginning in closed beta.
There are reasons why CO's original head Dev is no longer with the company and that God awful content was a big one.
Before alerts, players just left the game. Now at least they have an option to play CO while avoiding that content.
I understand that there are die-hards out there who will *never* get sick of these types of MMO cliche missions, but even given that, I see no reason to direct potential customers to that stuff by filling it with unique rewards.
You missed the point, I was talking about the rewards. Everything from devices to costume pieces to action figures from crafting, to special active skill modifications. All that stuff is gone, or moved, or just given to us.
There is no "gear grind" People always wore the same stuff that other min maxers wore, and it only took 1 run of lemuria or vibora to get stacked.
I never played the missions for "gear grinding" I played them because of gadget collections, costume pieces, random antics, and most of all, even though its listed last it should be 1st, I play the missions because they're fun. I can't jump into a mission and play through it without having some kind of fun with it. If its not fun, then why the F@#@#$ am I playing it?
I'm still playing the content, same as I played it before on alert. Different characters,different ways of doing them.
I only grinded(?, ground) for components to finish my CTP's before alerts started. Not for costumes, gear, whatnots.
If the people are sick of playing the same missions in all different games, why are they playing them? There is a limit to the types of missions you can make.
Except for some of the alerts like the Hipan special, I find them boring.
Dockside nemesis is fun as people find out what their nemesis does at level 30.
Or spot the arm movements on baron Cimitiere BEFORE he reverses your attack at you.
Then there's having to tell a level 40 where the mail box is and how to get a mission adn how to change maps and yes there are other maps. They had alert spammed to 40 bec asue their freind had told them. Not on the second one they didn't.
I don't think people should be forced to do regular mission content, but I wish it was more... competitive. It feels that Alerts don't properly balance the ease of 'sign up wherever' with the XP rewards -- the rewards of regular missions should be balanced with the amount of running around you end up doing.
That. From a levelling pov, until the mid-30s, the only reason to run regular missions right now is to do something while you wait for the next Smash Alert to pop. (Will get enough resources to buy decent gear that way.)
And the main reason to run regular content from the mid-30s is doing enough of Vibora Bay to unlock UNITY 2, not that the rewards are properly scaled against Smash Alerts.
Two very important break points are level 10 and level 15 -- you get an additional Super stat at each of those levels, which can have a huge effect.
Plus, over time, there's simple breadth of powers; at level 6 you have an EB and two powers. That's not a lot of room to cover attacks, defenses, passives, and so on. By level 15 you have twice as many powers, which is pretty significant.
In addition, there's the whole tier arrangement of powers. Powers that require 3 or 5 previous powers in a set are generally more powerful than earlier ones (though not always or with trade-offs).
In fact, for freeforms, at least, after a certain point getting additional powers is almost unimportant -- either situational things that are cool to have or polishing what you already do well.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Admittedly I'm relatively new, but I started doing alerts this weekend. And I don't understand the hate for lowbies.
We're all bumped up (or down) to level 30, no? So isn't a level 6, say, doing as much damage as anyone else, albeit with only one or two attacks?
What am I not understanding here?
A low level power at character level 30 does less damage than a high level power at character level 30. Also, it is more likely that a higher level toon will have a rank 3 power, or rank 2+advantage, whereas the low level toon will probably have the base power. Even the same power will do less damage and have less effects with the low level toon scaled up to 30, because that toon's stats will be much lower.
A low level character bumped to level 30 still has low level gear and low level stats. This is why heirloom gear (which scales to current level) and Aura of Primal Majesty (which boosts all ability scores) are so helpful in alerts.
I am not rich, by any means. I just farmed alot. ingame and irl, lol.
+ poor people always have the option of finding a job and going to work.
Wealth or poverty is not an excuse for the weak alert system, is it?
Besides, i do not want to take away the fun for new lowbies, but just ask
around and you will shortly come to the conclusion that the majority of the
CO community is thinking alike on this topic.
...okay, guess I have to explain it.
"Rich people shouldn't complain about the difficulties of being poor."
Translated: If your alerts aren't failing because of low levels, then don't complain about low levels causing alerts to fail.
And yes, a majority of people will often think alike on certain things... that doesn't mean they're right about it. Remember, CO isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship... the majority can think what it wants, but fact is the rule says lowbies can que, so all the majority can do about it is QQ.
srsly, people need to quit crying. :biggrin:
That said, there isn't actually any evidence to support that the majority holds this view. Maybe when you looked around, with a baised view, that's what you saw. But when I look around, I see that the vast majority of people don't really care if lowbies join alerts, and it's just a handful of people who seem to think the issue tear-worthy.
Ironically... one such person who vocally expressed their disdain for low levels in alerts, to the tune of "******* low levels" at the end of an alert where we had much difficulty... was the individual who, during that Recruiting Drive seemed to be attempting to kill every last side mob while the rest of us, low levels included, dispatched the boss ( he died a lot, we covered for his mistakes ). Afterwards when I tried to tell this level 40 that you don't have to kill all the side mobs, he called me a noob for not knowing how the alert was done, and /ignored me.
Seems to be a complicated issue.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
"Rich people shouldn't complain about the difficulties of being poor."
Translated: If your alerts aren't failing because of low levels, then don't complain about low levels causing alerts to fail.
And yes, a majority of people will often think alike on certain things... that doesn't mean they're right about it. Remember, CO isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship... the majority can think what it wants, but fact is the rule says lowbies can que, so all the majority can do about it is QQ.
srsly, people need to quit crying. :biggrin:
That said, there isn't actually any evidence to support that the majority holds this view. Maybe when you looked around, with a baised view, that's what you saw. But when I look around, I see that the vast majority of people don't really care if lowbies join alerts, and it's just a handful of people who seem to think the issue tear-worthy.
Ironically... one such person who vocally expressed their disdain for low levels in alerts, to the tune of "******* low levels" at the end of an alert where we had much difficulty... was the individual who, during that Recruiting Drive seemed to be attempting to kill every last side mob while the rest of us, low levels included, dispatched the boss ( he died a lot, we covered for his mistakes ). Afterwards when I tried to tell this level 40 that you don't have to kill all the side mobs, he called me a noob for not knowing how the alert was done, and /ignored me.
Seems to be a complicated issue.
This is actually a true statement since it has happened to me, i quite often que smash alerts for the nem ones with Questionite drops and for the dailies and everytime a low level or higher level play they go for the side groups when its not needed, sure if you got a couple 40's that are pretty sturdy its quite fun, but most of the time there's no need to go wandering off since some of them have trouble with the alerts as it is.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
Admittedly I'm relatively new, but I started doing alerts this weekend. And I don't understand the hate for lowbies.
We're all bumped up (or down) to level 30, no? So isn't a level 6, say, doing as much damage as anyone else, albeit with only one or two attacks?
What am I not understanding here?
I will admit that failing an Alert is annoying, but if you think about it from a different perspective...
You've wasted about 2 mins.
That's it.
It doesnt do -50k XP or however much the alert grants or reduce your effectiveness or strip you of Resources or gear.
Whilst I will admit that it can be annoying to be an alert with lower levels, who are inept at playing the game, trying my hardest in an alert with a decent build will generally get the alert done, even if it is by the skin of my teeth.
Hate for noobs (personally) came from being in Red Winter Alerts with Radiant AT "noobs" who tried to DPS instead of heal and stick to what they were designed to do. So much so I made one for myself just to show that not ALL Radiant ATs are unaware of their place in an alert (i.e. healing).
Now I don't mind them, as I frequently join XP Alerts with my level 40s to help others to win the alert (if need be). Sometimes, the alert teams are horrendous and I'm glad I came with a level 40, other times I'm teamed with people who know exactly what they are doing and rip the boss to shreds.
For example: One time, I was in an alert with 4 other Night Avenger ATs we all stealthed and shadow struck the PSI Enforcers then we re stealthed and killed everything else, it was the cleanest alert and most intresting alert I've been in to date :biggrin:
Though I'm a proponent for the "go in at whatever level you want" side, this isn't exactly true.
You queue for the alert. This can take anywhere from seconds to a minute. You load into the alert. You can wait up to 40 seconds for some jerk who can't be bothered to look at his screen to get in the alert. Then you gotta wait for the cutscene. Depending on the alert, you wait until someone has the chutzpah to start the alert, or the timer won't start. After the two minute timer is up, you gotta sit through a cutscene. Then you load back into Millennium City or wherever it was that you were, and then queue again.
Multiple failed runs add up and this is important when...
You're trying to maximize your XP/hour when you have Double XP buffs ticking away!
I still have about 30 characters with double xp, from 4 to 8 hours of it, and I hate when I lose an alert and that sweet, sweet double xp is melting away, unused.
But, if I'm running an underpowered lowbie or whatever, I usually bring a friend. Friends who know what they're doing can carry an alert easily.
I wonder what would happen if they changed the scoring of alerts. Instead of everyone getting 200 points and the same reward. They showed you who did the most damage, who took the most damage, who healed the most and you can throw debuffing somehow in there and then they gave you rewards equivalent to your place. If you have no score, like actual leachers or just ran up and died and never rezzed, which I've seen, you get nothing! (Can someone add a pic of Willy Wonka saying this)
I wonder what would happen if they changed the scoring of alerts. Instead of everyone getting 200 points and the same reward. They showed you who did the most damage, who took the most damage, who healed the most and you can throw debuffing somehow in there and then they gave you rewards equivalent to your place. If you have no score, like actual leachers or just ran up and died and never rezzed, which I've seen, you get nothing! (Can someone add a pic of Willy Wonka saying this)
This was at least partially in place for Red Winter; In fact, I've run it where someone didn't even get a score, (and subsequently didn't get a reward for said alert).
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I wonder what would happen if they changed the scoring of alerts. Instead of everyone getting 200 points and the same reward. They showed you who did the most damage, who took the most damage, who healed the most and you can throw debuffing somehow in there and then they gave you rewards equivalent to your place. If you have no score, like actual leachers or just ran up and died and never rezzed, which I've seen, you get nothing! (Can someone add a pic of Willy Wonka saying this)
Well, then the opposite problem would happen. 40s going into alerts and steamrolling everything, getting all the XP that they don't need. Support characters would have to be fixed, too. They always score poorly in open missions, don't they? (Never played support, so I don't know.)
Well, then the opposite problem would happen. 40s going into alerts and steamrolling everything, getting all the XP that they don't need. Support characters would have to be fixed, too. They always score poorly in open missions, don't they? (Never played support, so I don't know.)
They could setup a minimum threshold one must exceed in order to get credit - like dealing at least 5% of total damage or something. This would, at the very least, eliminate players that just stay parked at the starting area.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I wouldnt be AS annoyed feeding freebies if that XP would actually convert to Resources ONLY IF you are level 40. Like 3g50s or something.
Otherwise, im sick of putting up with new-player attitudes and people level 30+ who havent figured out yet how to pick a new power aka, those people rolling only PowerBuilder and T1 Blast, expecting a freeform to feed them a doggiebone.
If there's no reward in it for a max-level character. Im not putting up with the whining or helping them and powerlevel/do it for them for free.
Same lot of people starting to enter into Gravitars now, and if a couple of well-known "solo-ers" aren't in there people stop queueing. Thats what annoys me is peoples lack of will to learn, they just want everything done for them.
I wouldnt be AS annoyed feeding freebies if that XP would actually convert to Resources ONLY IF you are level 40. Like 3g50s or something.
Otherwise, im sick of putting up with new-player attitudes and people level 30+ who havent figured out yet how to pick a new power aka, those people rolling only PowerBuilder and T1 Blast, expecting a freeform to feed them a doggiebone.
If there's no reward in it for a max-level character. Im not putting up with the whining or helping them and powerlevel/do it for them for free.
Same lot of people starting to enter into Gravitars now, and if a couple of well-known "solo-ers" aren't in there people stop queueing. Thats what annoys me is peoples lack of will to learn, they just want everything done for them.
I think 3g is a bit much for a quick alert... you don't even get that much doing a Grab alert.
Anyway, I only recently started doing Gravitar (hope you're not talking about me!) and for the most part, they go pretty well. I don't mind helping people out. I'm full-on DPS but took a res specifically for this. I don't mind chasing the others around when they die. You're all there to help (unless you're* that guy who stands around or dies on purpose and recovers so they don't have to do anything).
On one run last night, there was this guy I must have resed like 15 times or so. He was 40, but he was an Unleashed. Don't know the situation with his gear, but this guy would take a couple unfortunate hits and just get creamed. I don't think it's fair to say that he shouldn't give it a go as much as he wants just because he's using an Archetype that can't handle the punishment.
Having a Smash drop a single random R5 MOD, for level 40's, would be cool. Otherwise, creating a simple "XP Token" which is a consummable item, (unbound), and when used grants, say, .75 of a Smash's reward, (level appropriate to the user), would be a step in the right direction.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Otherwise, im sick of putting up with new-player attitudes and people level 30+ who havent figured out yet how to pick a new power aka, those people rolling only PowerBuilder and T1 Blast, expecting a freeform to feed them a doggiebone.
Woe for the awesome, their burden so great!
If my too-overpowered-for-polite-non-random-team-play character can carry an otherwise doomed to fail alert that's one less alert I have to re-run to get my Q.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My point is, if people arent willing to learn or help themselves, why should i continue to do it for them? The people who make it possible deserve more appreciation than what they currently get when often is the case they do 90% or more of the whole thing themselves...people dieing in 6seconds from start and hitting recover, or flat out hiding behind the rock to the left, leeching rewards WHICH THEY DONT DESERVE AND HAVE NOT WON is why im sick of participating and take a leave
This is exactly why i stop queueing if they cant do anything for themselves...im going back to serpent lantern or nemcon or something.
I only wish i could queue and enter solo, or ONLY my team, then i wouldnt have to ever feed a leecher again, and enjoy the content instead of feeling sick.
Im not speaking for elitists here...im speaking what is a good point that people WHO ACTUALLY ARE DOING NOTHING are ruining the experience others and making the experience detestable for those who know they can do it..
According to the loading-screen messages, you can enter with only your team. Team up, and have the Team Leader queue, and apparently just the five of you get in that run. Problem solved!
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
According to the loading-screen messages, you can enter with only your team. Team up, and have the Team Leader queue, and apparently just the five of you get in that run. Problem solved!
I don't know if it was just very edge of the bell curve luck but when doing a dockside dustup: nemesis with a set team of 5 the nemesis was always the team leader's.
Every time I've gone in with a team of less than five whatever team I had was kept together.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I don't know if it was just very edge of the bell curve luck but when doing a dockside dustup: nemesis with a set team of 5 the nemesis was always the team leader's.
Every time I've gone in with a team of less than five whatever team I had was kept together.
You were very lucky indeed.
That said, pertaining to the thread in general, I don't think level alone is an issue. It's a factor but not the main issue. Some people either don't know how to play or don't want to learn how to play. Recruiting Drive is one such alert that is pretty eye-opening in regards to this aspect of teaming. I don't know how many times I have been on a team that insists on drawing aggro from the sides and getting everyone wiped then wondering what went wrong, or even better, do the same thing, despite being told not to and what would happen if they did, and then throwing a royal hissy fit in chat because they think that another person's dps will overcome their complete ineptitude and their inability to block.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
I think the biggest issue with alerts, not understanding what to do in a given alert, is symptomatic of many players never reading anything on screen, and never watching any tutorial videos, etc. As another put it, "not wanting to learn".
Recruiting drive is a great example of this--the alert tells you that you only need to defeat the boss. Heck, You can do that alert without even fighting the three mobs on the stairs. Likewise, the main "timer" is player defeats. Still, many players routinely cause the alert to fail because they don't understand this. A similar situation happens in Red Winter, and sometimes players spend too much effort fighting worms in Soul Siphon.
All you can do is let players know the actual win conditions. Don't forget to use local chat, or send PMs, because many, many players have chat turned off.
Most players do not read these forums, and most players do not participate in chat while playing.
I think the biggest issue with alerts, not understanding what to do in a given alert, is symptomatic of many players never reading anything on screen, and never watching any tutorial videos, etc. As another put it, "not wanting to learn".
Recruiting drive is a great example of this--the alert tells you that you only need to defeat the boss. Heck, You can do that alert without even fighting the three mobs on the stairs. Likewise, the main "timer" is player defeats. Still, many players routinely cause the alert to fail because they don't understand this. A similar situation happens in Red Winter, and sometimes players spend too much effort fighting worms in Soul Siphon.
All you can do is let players know the actual win conditions. Don't forget to use local chat, or send PMs, because many, many players have chat turned off.
Most players do not read these forums, and most players do not participate in chat while playing.
Sometimes, we forget this.
The sad irony here, to me at least, is that these alerts would actually be a lot more fun if some of those "dumb things to do" weren't dumb things and were actually part of the goal of the alert...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Well, then the opposite problem would happen. 40s going into alerts and steamrolling everything, getting all the XP that they don't need. Support characters would have to be fixed, too. They always score poorly in open missions, don't they? (Never played support, so I don't know.)
I was hoping they'd restructure the scoring so all roles would get something.
Could you imagine if this came into play and low levels were getting nothing. You'd see posts in zone asking for people with low levels to join the same group so they'd earn more xp.
I was hoping they'd restructure the scoring so all roles would get something.
Could you imagine if this came into play and low levels were getting nothing. You'd see posts in zone asking for people with low levels to join the same group so they'd earn more xp.
Yeah I see the merit in the idea, but the game itself wouldn't support it. As far as I know, only DPS gets any scoring on open missions, and it's been an issue since launch. I can only imagine it's going to remain that way.
If they did manage to fix that and give points to healers and other support, hell yeah, I'm all for performance-based support. Get people asking "How do I do X better?"
Yeah I see the merit in the idea, but the game itself wouldn't support it. As far as I know, only DPS gets any scoring on open missions, and it's been an issue since launch. I can only imagine it's going to remain that way.
If they did manage to fix that and give points to healers and other support, hell yeah, I'm all for performance-based support. Get people asking "How do I do X better?"
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I don't get the hate. I had a 7 and an 11 with me last night on my super squishy toon, and another toon in the mid 20s, and we beat Demoiselle in less than 30 seconds. Even being a spike heavy squish-monster near level cap, the lowbie tank was able to keep aggro most of the time, and the alert went faster than just about any I'd done before it.
Granted, it was obvious that the lowbies knew what they were doing, but that just reinforces what's been said already. Skill matters.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I don't get the hate. I had a 7 and an 11 with me last night on my super squishy toon, and another toon in the mid 20s, and we beat Demoiselle in less than 30 seconds. Even being a spike heavy squish-monster near level cap, the lowbie tank was able to keep aggro most of the time, and the alert went faster than just about any I'd done before it.
Granted, it was obvious that the lowbies knew what they were doing, but that just reinforces what's been said already. Skill matters.
Yup.
Won't be the case every single time, but I strongly agree that it's the player, not the character, that makes the team. I never worry about losing a Smash when I'm helping out lowbie friends. Doesn't mean we don't lose once in a blue moon, but I still don't worry about it. :biggrin:
I don't get the hate. I had a 7 and an 11 with me last night on my super squishy toon, and another toon in the mid 20s, and we beat Demoiselle in less than 30 seconds. Even being a spike heavy squish-monster near level cap, the lowbie tank was able to keep aggro most of the time, and the alert went faster than just about any I'd done before it.
Granted, it was obvious that the lowbies knew what they were doing, but that just reinforces what's been said already. Skill matters.
When you get a team of just low levels, no level 40 holding agro, that becomes a problem, so thats the issue here, alot of people here forget that the reason why these alerts should be gated to 15+ or scaled is that EVERYONE can join regardless of level or AT, there shouldn't be hate towards low levels but there is and thats because of the alerts not being properly organised.
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Is that even possible? that would take forever though wouldn't it?
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
Don't you mean "minimum" instead of "cap"?
At the very least, I can see a level 11 minimum for Alerts, since APs require that.
In general, I have no problem w/ *anybody* doing alerts at any level, provided they are competent and play intelligently. Since, however, we are basically dealing with the public here, some guidelines need to be put in place to better control those who don't possess these qualities.
I wonder if they could do a sort of "alert achievement" system, where you unlock access to certain types of alerts by accomplishing something in-game. For instance, completing 10 regular missions unlocks access to smashes. Completing an instanced mission without dying grants access to the grabs. Equipping 1 of each primary piece of gear grants access to bursts, etc.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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Wanna collect devices from overworld bosses? NOPE they're all in grab bags that can only be baught by buying grab bag keys and collecting grab bag trash to put together to get a grab bag.
PVP collector? NOPE GONE.
Special 1 of a kind quest rewards? NOPE! GONE, ALL QUEST REWARDS ARE NOW RANDOMLY GENERATED TRASH GEAR. Or you can get a token instead that you can spend on costume pieces you might not even care about.
It was cool that they spread and added some travel powers that were exclusive and gave you a means to get them, and even the whole questionite store.
But taking away any meaninful rewards for doing content other than alerts you end up only leaving alerts as the only worth a damn content.
Who gives a damn about if you have bought a lts?
Low level characters do not belong anywhere near, warlord or hi - pan.
Nemesis alerts should be a taboo aswell.
period.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
My alerts never fail, duh. I'm awesome.
Rich people shouldn't complain about the difficulties of being poor.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
No one except gear grinders were playing the normal content *before* alerts were added. The original content is mind-numbingly bad cookie-cuter MMO cliche Kill X of Y missions that most people had seen so many times in so many other games that they were sick of it *before* CO was ever even in alpha. It was certainly a major issue beginning in closed beta.
There are reasons why CO's original head Dev is no longer with the company and that God awful content was a big one.
Before alerts, players just left the game. Now at least they have an option to play CO while avoiding that content.
I understand that there are die-hards out there who will *never* get sick of these types of MMO cliche missions, but even given that, I see no reason to direct potential customers to that stuff by filling it with unique rewards.
I got bored, did exactly that.
Heirloom gear, sitting on spawn and never even did the first mission where you talk to the cop guy or socrates. Just went straight to the eggs, killed those to level 6, then farmed alerts.
It was...Interesting, when I one hit level 1's with my EB...
Deliciously nutritious!
You know, some of us play the normal content because we like the storyline (well, once you're out of Westside, anyway). I haven't even discovered all the lore, because I keep running different missions in different places. I'm going to have to actually go all the way through Canada sometime, and discover the sasquatch the way you're supposed to, instead of happening upon them while trying to find a shortcut to somewhere else...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It was fun, and different.
I don't think people should be forced to do regular mission content, but I wish it was more... competitive. It feels that Alerts don't properly balance the ease of 'sign up wherever' with the XP rewards -- the rewards of regular missions should be balanced with the amount of running around you end up doing.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Well met good sir. Words of wisdom.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I am not rich, by any means. I just farmed alot. ingame and irl, lol.
+ poor people always have the option of finding a job and going to work.
Wealth or poverty is not an excuse for the weak alert system, is it?
Besides, i do not want to take away the fun for new lowbies, but just ask
around and you will shortly come to the conclusion that the majority of the
CO community is thinking alike on this topic.
You missed his point.
If your alerts never fail then you don't have much to complain about regarding alerts that fail, supposedly due to lowbies.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
You missed the point, I was talking about the rewards. Everything from devices to costume pieces to action figures from crafting, to special active skill modifications. All that stuff is gone, or moved, or just given to us.
There is no "gear grind" People always wore the same stuff that other min maxers wore, and it only took 1 run of lemuria or vibora to get stacked.
I never played the missions for "gear grinding" I played them because of gadget collections, costume pieces, random antics, and most of all, even though its listed last it should be 1st, I play the missions because they're fun. I can't jump into a mission and play through it without having some kind of fun with it. If its not fun, then why the F@#@#$ am I playing it?
I only grinded(?, ground) for components to finish my CTP's before alerts started. Not for costumes, gear, whatnots.
If the people are sick of playing the same missions in all different games, why are they playing them? There is a limit to the types of missions you can make.
Except for some of the alerts like the Hipan special, I find them boring.
Dockside nemesis is fun as people find out what their nemesis does at level 30.
Or spot the arm movements on baron Cimitiere BEFORE he reverses your attack at you.
Then there's having to tell a level 40 where the mail box is and how to get a mission adn how to change maps and yes there are other maps. They had alert spammed to 40 bec asue their freind had told them. Not on the second one they didn't.
60 characters and counting. see altaholics thread
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That. From a levelling pov, until the mid-30s, the only reason to run regular missions right now is to do something while you wait for the next Smash Alert to pop. (Will get enough resources to buy decent gear that way.)
And the main reason to run regular content from the mid-30s is doing enough of Vibora Bay to unlock UNITY 2, not that the rewards are properly scaled against Smash Alerts.
We're all bumped up (or down) to level 30, no? So isn't a level 6, say, doing as much damage as anyone else, albeit with only one or two attacks?
What am I not understanding here?
I'm still fairly new. If I screwed up again, let me know.
Check out: http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Level_Progression
Two very important break points are level 10 and level 15 -- you get an additional Super stat at each of those levels, which can have a huge effect.
Plus, over time, there's simple breadth of powers; at level 6 you have an EB and two powers. That's not a lot of room to cover attacks, defenses, passives, and so on. By level 15 you have twice as many powers, which is pretty significant.
In addition, there's the whole tier arrangement of powers. Powers that require 3 or 5 previous powers in a set are generally more powerful than earlier ones (though not always or with trade-offs).
In fact, for freeforms, at least, after a certain point getting additional powers is almost unimportant -- either situational things that are cool to have or polishing what you already do well.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
A low level power at character level 30 does less damage than a high level power at character level 30. Also, it is more likely that a higher level toon will have a rank 3 power, or rank 2+advantage, whereas the low level toon will probably have the base power. Even the same power will do less damage and have less effects with the low level toon scaled up to 30, because that toon's stats will be much lower.
A low level character bumped to level 30 still has low level gear and low level stats. This is why heirloom gear (which scales to current level) and Aura of Primal Majesty (which boosts all ability scores) are so helpful in alerts.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
...okay, guess I have to explain it.
"Rich people shouldn't complain about the difficulties of being poor."
Translated: If your alerts aren't failing because of low levels, then don't complain about low levels causing alerts to fail.
And yes, a majority of people will often think alike on certain things... that doesn't mean they're right about it. Remember, CO isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship... the majority can think what it wants, but fact is the rule says lowbies can que, so all the majority can do about it is QQ.
srsly, people need to quit crying. :biggrin:
That said, there isn't actually any evidence to support that the majority holds this view. Maybe when you looked around, with a baised view, that's what you saw. But when I look around, I see that the vast majority of people don't really care if lowbies join alerts, and it's just a handful of people who seem to think the issue tear-worthy.
Ironically... one such person who vocally expressed their disdain for low levels in alerts, to the tune of "******* low levels" at the end of an alert where we had much difficulty... was the individual who, during that Recruiting Drive seemed to be attempting to kill every last side mob while the rest of us, low levels included, dispatched the boss ( he died a lot, we covered for his mistakes ). Afterwards when I tried to tell this level 40 that you don't have to kill all the side mobs, he called me a noob for not knowing how the alert was done, and /ignored me.
Seems to be a complicated issue.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Thank you
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This is actually a true statement since it has happened to me, i quite often que smash alerts for the nem ones with Questionite drops and for the dailies and everytime a low level or higher level play they go for the side groups when its not needed, sure if you got a couple 40's that are pretty sturdy its quite fun, but most of the time there's no need to go wandering off since some of them have trouble with the alerts as it is.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
I'm still fairly new. If I screwed up again, let me know.
I will admit that failing an Alert is annoying, but if you think about it from a different perspective...
You've wasted about 2 mins.
That's it.
It doesnt do -50k XP or however much the alert grants or reduce your effectiveness or strip you of Resources or gear.
Whilst I will admit that it can be annoying to be an alert with lower levels, who are inept at playing the game, trying my hardest in an alert with a decent build will generally get the alert done, even if it is by the skin of my teeth.
Hate for noobs (personally) came from being in Red Winter Alerts with Radiant AT "noobs" who tried to DPS instead of heal and stick to what they were designed to do. So much so I made one for myself just to show that not ALL Radiant ATs are unaware of their place in an alert (i.e. healing).
Now I don't mind them, as I frequently join XP Alerts with my level 40s to help others to win the alert (if need be). Sometimes, the alert teams are horrendous and I'm glad I came with a level 40, other times I'm teamed with people who know exactly what they are doing and rip the boss to shreds.
For example: One time, I was in an alert with 4 other Night Avenger ATs we all stealthed and shadow struck the PSI Enforcers then we re stealthed and killed everything else, it was the cleanest alert and most intresting alert I've been in to date :biggrin:
My Characters on PRIMUS
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Though I'm a proponent for the "go in at whatever level you want" side, this isn't exactly true.
You queue for the alert. This can take anywhere from seconds to a minute. You load into the alert. You can wait up to 40 seconds for some jerk who can't be bothered to look at his screen to get in the alert. Then you gotta wait for the cutscene. Depending on the alert, you wait until someone has the chutzpah to start the alert, or the timer won't start. After the two minute timer is up, you gotta sit through a cutscene. Then you load back into Millennium City or wherever it was that you were, and then queue again.
Multiple failed runs add up and this is important when...
You're trying to maximize your XP/hour when you have Double XP buffs ticking away!
I still have about 30 characters with double xp, from 4 to 8 hours of it, and I hate when I lose an alert and that sweet, sweet double xp is melting away, unused.
But, if I'm running an underpowered lowbie or whatever, I usually bring a friend. Friends who know what they're doing can carry an alert easily.
This was at least partially in place for Red Winter; In fact, I've run it where someone didn't even get a score, (and subsequently didn't get a reward for said alert).
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Well, then the opposite problem would happen. 40s going into alerts and steamrolling everything, getting all the XP that they don't need. Support characters would have to be fixed, too. They always score poorly in open missions, don't they? (Never played support, so I don't know.)
They could setup a minimum threshold one must exceed in order to get credit - like dealing at least 5% of total damage or something. This would, at the very least, eliminate players that just stay parked at the starting area.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Otherwise, im sick of putting up with new-player attitudes and people level 30+ who havent figured out yet how to pick a new power aka, those people rolling only PowerBuilder and T1 Blast, expecting a freeform to feed them a doggiebone.
If there's no reward in it for a max-level character. Im not putting up with the whining or helping them and powerlevel/do it for them for free.
Same lot of people starting to enter into Gravitars now, and if a couple of well-known "solo-ers" aren't in there people stop queueing. Thats what annoys me is peoples lack of will to learn, they just want everything done for them.
I think 3g is a bit much for a quick alert... you don't even get that much doing a Grab alert.
Anyway, I only recently started doing Gravitar (hope you're not talking about me!) and for the most part, they go pretty well. I don't mind helping people out. I'm full-on DPS but took a res specifically for this. I don't mind chasing the others around when they die. You're all there to help (unless you're* that guy who stands around or dies on purpose and recovers so they don't have to do anything).
On one run last night, there was this guy I must have resed like 15 times or so. He was 40, but he was an Unleashed. Don't know the situation with his gear, but this guy would take a couple unfortunate hits and just get creamed. I don't think it's fair to say that he shouldn't give it a go as much as he wants just because he's using an Archetype that can't handle the punishment.
*that's a nebulous "you're."
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Woe for the awesome, their burden so great!
If my too-overpowered-for-polite-non-random-team-play character can carry an otherwise doomed to fail alert that's one less alert I have to re-run to get my Q.
This is exactly why i stop queueing if they cant do anything for themselves...im going back to serpent lantern or nemcon or something.
I only wish i could queue and enter solo, or ONLY my team, then i wouldnt have to ever feed a leecher again, and enjoy the content instead of feeling sick.
Im not speaking for elitists here...im speaking what is a good point that people WHO ACTUALLY ARE DOING NOTHING are ruining the experience others and making the experience detestable for those who know they can do it..
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I don't know if it was just very edge of the bell curve luck but when doing a dockside dustup: nemesis with a set team of 5 the nemesis was always the team leader's.
Every time I've gone in with a team of less than five whatever team I had was kept together.
You were very lucky indeed.
That said, pertaining to the thread in general, I don't think level alone is an issue. It's a factor but not the main issue. Some people either don't know how to play or don't want to learn how to play. Recruiting Drive is one such alert that is pretty eye-opening in regards to this aspect of teaming. I don't know how many times I have been on a team that insists on drawing aggro from the sides and getting everyone wiped then wondering what went wrong, or even better, do the same thing, despite being told not to and what would happen if they did, and then throwing a royal hissy fit in chat because they think that another person's dps will overcome their complete ineptitude and their inability to block.
Recruiting drive is a great example of this--the alert tells you that you only need to defeat the boss. Heck, You can do that alert without even fighting the three mobs on the stairs. Likewise, the main "timer" is player defeats. Still, many players routinely cause the alert to fail because they don't understand this. A similar situation happens in Red Winter, and sometimes players spend too much effort fighting worms in Soul Siphon.
All you can do is let players know the actual win conditions. Don't forget to use local chat, or send PMs, because many, many players have chat turned off.
Most players do not read these forums, and most players do not participate in chat while playing.
Sometimes, we forget this.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
The sad irony here, to me at least, is that these alerts would actually be a lot more fun if some of those "dumb things to do" weren't dumb things and were actually part of the goal of the alert...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I was hoping they'd restructure the scoring so all roles would get something.
Could you imagine if this came into play and low levels were getting nothing. You'd see posts in zone asking for people with low levels to join the same group so they'd earn more xp.
Harsh. I've only had that happen a couple of times. Usually teamups work great (though I hear it happens more if you do a full queue on Gravitar).
Yeah I see the merit in the idea, but the game itself wouldn't support it. As far as I know, only DPS gets any scoring on open missions, and it's been an issue since launch. I can only imagine it's going to remain that way.
If they did manage to fix that and give points to healers and other support, hell yeah, I'm all for performance-based support. Get people asking "How do I do X better?"
Quick update for you, get Offender a Hawaiian Shirt. Champs is adopting a Hawaiian Shirt Friday policy.
Granted, it was obvious that the lowbies knew what they were doing, but that just reinforces what's been said already. Skill matters.
RIP Caine
Ha, I'm down. Do we have a Hawaiian shirt in the game?
Yup.
Won't be the case every single time, but I strongly agree that it's the player, not the character, that makes the team. I never worry about losing a Smash when I'm helping out lowbie friends. Doesn't mean we don't lose once in a blue moon, but I still don't worry about it. :biggrin:
Ya, Sekimen posted it in another thread.
When you get a team of just low levels, no level 40 holding agro, that becomes a problem, so thats the issue here, alot of people here forget that the reason why these alerts should be gated to 15+ or scaled is that EVERYONE can join regardless of level or AT, there shouldn't be hate towards low levels but there is and thats because of the alerts not being properly organised.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!