This feels like a totally cheating grab for my money!
These items were IN THE GAME and then REMOVED arbitrarily, now we can only get them back by grinding or paying?
AND
It's random?
Ripoff.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Why do the lock boxes exist? They should have just been put in the Z Store where they would have to be paid for anyways.
Does this system help the company to dodge having to put a fair percentage of getting a good reward from these boxes?
Also about Drifter Salvage: Do the Drifter bags give us 4-20 salvage per bag or not? The Legacy items in the game were free to collect and now you just removed them and put a price tag on it. We want a legacy store to buy what we want without random chance.
Yes, it will take a long time. It also took a long time to make those dumb crafted costume pieces.
Hmmm okay, so this is how you like it?
I think it's the random part that really chapped my hide, the silver champs reg vendor is a god awful grind, but at least i can choose my reward.
And you're right it did take a long time, I already had most of the Arms ones and was working on the science ones. I don't want to get a repeat for all my trouble. [Don't give me *&^% about selling them, if I wanted to sell stuff I would.]
How god awful high the prices are- no way is this right.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Why are comments disabled on the article on the website? Is it because you don't want players to reveal to other customers what a ripoff this is in plain sight?
Random kind of sucks though, I guess. Maybe it should have been a token you buy, with a vendor that lets you select a piece.
And cheaper
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Rather than just jump in with a knee-jerk reaction, I took some time to think about this. I see both good and bad with today's updates. I'd appreciate it, TT, if this feedback was sent on up the food chain. I tried to have this be as much constructive criticism as possible and not just ranting and doom-saying.
Legacy Items - I think it's awful that instead of letting us purchase specific legacy items (or even perhaps bundled packs of related items), they are available as a grab bag that is purchased with currency obtained by other grab bags. I do very much consider it a slap in the face. I would have been begrudgingly accepting of having to purchase the items with Drifter Salvage if we were purchasing a specific Legacy Item rather than a grab bag.
The new lockboxes - Personally, I disliked most of the grab bags and such. Especially the ones where most of the time you only would receive 1 Drifter Salvage. I have not purchased a grab bag, only getting them from daily missions. I do feel these new lockboxes actually may have some value looking at the full prize table. Seeing a full prize table is very appreciated at the very least. I might wish there were some odds given on how likely you are to win which prize. Compared to past grab bags, I could feel I didn't completely waste a dollar if I do decide to purchase some lockbox keys someday if future lockboxes follow how these Halloween ones are. I'm still not sure I will buy them, just saying that the lockboxes don't feel like they were slapped together by the same cheapskates as the grab bags that only gave Drifter Salvage most of the time.
Also, please consider making Drifter Salvage account wide rather than character specific.
- I for one welcome the lockbox, at least you guys took the time to figure out what to put into it and how to make them worth their price, i recall sto took a while to redo their lockboxes to provide what the players really wanted. also the boxes are very similar to grab bags so i really dont see why the complain now that its just called a box. With that being said
-I really like the items the boxes contain such as the x25 mods, it makes fusing for lv9 mods so much easier. thank you for providing a large amount of mods and not just a few.
The only thing that i would like change is for the team xp boost not to be account bound. not much use when the character that got it is already lv40 can this be looked into or fowarded to the team trailturtle?.
- I for one welcome the lockbox, at least you guys took the time to figure out what to put into it and how to make them worth their price, i recall sto took a while to redo their lockboxes to provide what the players really wanted. also the boxes are very similar to grab bags so i really dont see why the complain now that its just called a box. With that being said
Well the issue is this is replacing our rewards for beating a in game boss.
Oh look!! YOU GOT A REWARD~!
Oh look... you have to pay to get a random draw out of it....
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Well, so far one person is happy to see it. Even a broken clock, they say...
Anyways, this is not supposed to be a 'replacer'. This essentially works on the little trick where when you find these boxes, you feel the urge to get the keys more so than you would to go and buy a grab bag. Mobs drop these things like candy, so i can see where the pressure is.
It's the idea that this is something that will continue to be. Instead of outright selling things, we'll have to gamble scramble for them. Yeah, we may get costume sets and such, but I've got a feeling that this is going to be the next wave of costumes and gear.
I for one don't associate 'gaming' and 'gambling', nor do I equate 'spending money for a chance at an advantage' with 'fun'.
This was the worst move ever to make on top of all the other bad moves. I really thought you guys were improving but this just counteracts it completely. First off. I doubt ANYONE likes getting ingame drops that require PAYING to open. let alone having only an abysmal amount of new things, while the rest is junk. Especially with the become devices. They are junk ever since on-Alert came out.
Also, reading the article has me confused. Are you saying you have to come first in fighting Takofanes to get the doomlord dropbox and still pay. or is this two separate things, where any drop box still gives it, but takofanes drops it 100% and it's not in a box?
I definitely will not be wasting any money on this, because i can not encourage this idea of yours and sincerely hope everyone else is against it and that you might listen and discontinue this lock-box routine.
I would actually buy that celestial become device, if it were in cstore though, I always have rotten luck with any box giving salvage to always get only 2 and never higher.
1- I know the money thing, I get that and it's fine. Thing is, I'm curious as to how much more money Grab Bags make than standard costume sets or the like being purchased outright.
I haven't seen the numbers for CO yet, but on the other game I work on (Jade Dynasty), delivering items through grab bags makes financial sense.
As long as the Legacy item boxes STAY in the Drifter store forever, I will be fine.
I have absolutely zero confirmation, but I haven't heard anything about it only being in the Drifter store for a limited time... but the flip side is that they are in the Halloween Store tab. I'll ask the devs about that tomorrow -- they may not have a plan for it yet, though.
Legacy Items - I think it's awful that instead of letting us purchase specific legacy items (or even perhaps bundled packs of related items), they are available as a grab bag that is purchased with currency obtained by other grab bags.
... I do feel these new lockboxes actually may have some value looking at the full prize table. Seeing a full prize table is very appreciated at the very least....
Also, please consider making Drifter Salvage account wide rather than character specific.
*The random-legacy items has been one of the most consistent pieces of feedback. I'll pass it on.
*I agree that this was a well-built prize table. I was present for some of the dev meeting on this, and the outline that they used to build it was very well thought-out.
*Interesting. I haven't played around with transferring Salvage at all myself, it's character-specific right now?
Well the issue is this is replacing our rewards for beating a in game boss.
If I understand it correctly, every enemy you defeat has a chance to drop this, and that chance is separate from the normal loot table. Unless I am badly mistaken, this does not replace any rewards -- it is purely additive.
If I understand it correctly, every enemy you defeat has a chance to drop this, and that chance is separate from the normal loot table. Unless I am badly mistaken, this does not replace any rewards -- it is purely additive.
I have seen it in practice now, I see what you mean. I take it back ^^
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
So I have to buy a key... to open a bag, to get tokens, to buy a bag, that MIGHT contain one of the old costume pieces? I think it might be easier and more time & cost effective to just hack the Live server and roll the crafting system back. -_-;
Seriously, here's a simple formula for good development: for every reward, you can either have our TIME or our MONEY, not both. If you want to make something a random drop, fine, but it shouldn't take Zen to get. If you want to make something cost Zen, fine, but we want to know EXACTLY what we're getting before we buy. When you make us spend a HUGE amount of Zen to get a CHANCE of getting something, that's money-grubbing disrespect at it's lowest.
*Interesting. I haven't played around with transferring Salvage at all myself, it's character-specific right now?
Sadly, yes, Drifter Salvage is character specific like Recognition is. I have 5 or 6 characters with between 2 and 15 salvage each. If it was pooled together on the account level, probably around 25-35 salvage. As such, it'll be a long time until I ever use it. Even if I was cool with the Legacy items being in a grab bag at the Drifter store, the price for them is too much.
So I have to buy a key... to open a bag, to get tokens, to buy a bag, that MIGHT contain one of the old costume pieces?
As I understand, you would be guaranteed to get a Legacy item from one of the kits in the Drifter store. You just don't know which one will be in the box.
*Interesting. I haven't played around with transferring Salvage at all myself, it's character-specific right now?
Aye, probably my biggest stinker that I have with the system.
Being a person that didn't have all that much time to go into the research portion of it to create the costume pieces, I (Kind of) like the randomized portion of the costume parts. It makes it feel like a surprise each time. HOWEVER, I am able to see that the randomization portion of it is very sour to those who would have most of the drops. If, say, the price was cheaper, then it wouldn't feel like such a kick to the knockers to these people.
To myself, I don't mind it until I start unlocking them...Then I would start getting annoyed at repeat unlocks.
Not one for random, but I can ignore lockboxes. As long as everything doesn't start coming in one...
As I understand, you would be guaranteed to get a Legacy item from one of the kits in the Drifter store. You just don't know which one will be in the box.
Yes, slightly mis-worded that, but my exhasperation remains. With that much money going into getting just ONE bag, I wan to KNOW what I'm getting before I buy.
So I have to buy a key... to open a bag, to get tokens, to buy a bag, that MIGHT contain one of the old costume pieces?
No, actually, you don't have to do any of that at all. I haven't, and it hasn't hurt my game experience in the least.
I don't like the entire concept of lockboxes (a gamble bag I have to pay to open? No thanks!), but some of the complaints have been a bit over the top. For instance, Gerberatetra, the "grind" to get these open for free, while pretty doggone severe (20k Q per key, last I checked the Q-exchange, and it's probably going to get worse), it's nothing compared with the grind to get the components to make them back when they were Crafting items. (There were tales at the time of players taking over a year to gather all the drops they needed...)
And I understand these wondrous 4-slot items have no innate boosts at all, only those derived from what's slotted. Which probably makes those 25-mod drops really handy, so you can fuse them until you have a couple of fairly good mods to slot. Should help with the perennial issue with increasing your Skill since the mod/fusion thing went live, too.
So, yeah, these things suck conceptually - but as I keep yelling at the TV when political ads come on, aren't there enough legitimate complaints to make that you don't need to invent any?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
So SCR avoidance gear has 3 slots, 29 def, and 139 avoidance. The new gear has 4 slots, 19 def, and 139 avoidance. Someone tell me again how it's only slightly better?
But all this goes to hell if some "richboy" (no offense to subs intended) can lay out a few dozen bucks and without any effort steamroll anything I worked long and hard to merely get a shot at.
There is very little in the game that is not already steamroll-able. This has been the case pretty much all along. The most that could possibly happen is that someone who was already steamrolling everything would still be able to do so. Its not pay to win when you can easily win without paying.
To be honest I am not sure what one would have to work long and hard to get a shot at.
The damage the lockboxes are doing to the questionite exchange is too big. You should have added a Q alternative to open them so it would be more balanced.
The damage the lockboxes are doing to the questionite exchange is too big. You should have added a Q alternative to open them so it would be more balanced.
it's nothing compared with the grind to get the components to make them back when they were Crafting items. (There were tales at the time of players taking over a year to gather all the drops they needed...)
Are you sure that you aren't remembering tales about the Crafted Travel Powers rather than the time to craft one costume ?
Im not saying that the costumes weren't a grind, I just dont remember it being that bad.
There are three answers to this. First is that grab bags and lock boxes make money.
Hypothetically speaking... If the majority (or even "a plurality") of the people buying keys are doing it via stipend/q-for-zen exchange, how exactly are you generating any money? Lifetimers with huuuuuuge piles of stipend might not bat an eyelash at buying keys. People who have leftover monthly-stipend buildup might decide "meh, what else can i do with 100 zen, amirite?" and buy a key here and there (even though they might have 10 boxes to open and will only get to see the contents of a single box). But somebody who is enthralled with this game due to its FREE-to-play nature isn't going to suddenly dump 30$ into PW's pocket just to get random-number-generated box unlockers, are they? Why not just subscribe, and get "free" monthly zen, and get your keys that way, along with all the other benefits of subscription? It basically sounds like a loss-leader, to use the term (perhaps incorrectly). But what are you "leading the loss" for? Are we missing something here?
It sounds to me like this is a logical fallacy, this whole "boxes = money" argument, because nobody seems to be lining up to directly pay for this with cold hard cash/credit card. Stipend, maybe, but not cash-for-zen-for-keys. Do you have any data to back up this "boxes = money" statement? Is it worth alienating a percentage of the playerbase to "make money" from a different percentage? Is there not a happy medium to be found? (Actually, I have the answer for that last question: as a number of people have already said, sell us things DIRECTLY, not via RNG-Boxes. It seems people would like to buy them. It's called 'knowing what you're paying for'.)
I realize that I might as well be talking to the wall, because =this= is the direction that's already been chosen. But hey, I had time to waste, and the wall looked like it needed a good talkin'-to. :biggrin:
Hypothetically speaking... If the majority (or even "a plurality") of the people buying keys are doing it via stipend/q-for-zen exchange, how exactly are you generating any money? Lifetimers with huuuuuuge piles of stipend might not bat an eyelash at buying keys. People who have leftover monthly-stipend buildup might decide "meh, what else can i do with 100 zen, amirite?" and buy a key here and there (even though they might have 10 boxes to open and will only get to see the contents of a single box). But somebody who is enthralled with this game due to its FREE-to-play nature isn't going to suddenly dump 30$ into PW's pocket just to get random-number-generated box unlockers, are they? Why not just subscribe, and get "free" monthly zen, and get your keys that way, along with all the other benefits of subscription? It basically sounds like a loss-leader, to use the term (perhaps incorrectly). But what are you "leading the loss" for? Are we missing something here?
It sounds to me like this is a logical fallacy, this whole "boxes = money" argument, because nobody seems to be lining up to directly pay for this with cold hard cash/credit card. Stipend, maybe, but not cash-for-zen-for-keys. Do you have any data to back up this "boxes = money" statement? Is it worth alienating a percentage of the playerbase to "make money" from a different percentage? Is there not a happy medium to be found? (Actually, I have the answer for that last question: as a number of people have already said, sell us things DIRECTLY, not via RNG-Boxes. It seems people would like to buy them. It's called 'knowing what you're paying for'.)
I realize that I might as well be talking to the wall, because =this= is the direction that's already been chosen. But hey, I had time to waste, and the wall looked like it needed a good talkin'-to. :biggrin:
Nobody in this thread is lining up to buy them, pretty much as (almost) nobody on the forums was lining up to buy grab bags when they were introduced. And yet the grabbags seem to have sold/continue to sell. On this sort of subject the forums have a history of seeming to be completely out of touch with the actual playerbase as a whole.
Crypt/PWE has access to the numbers behind sales results for things released to be purchased in the C-Store, and those released via grab bags or lockboxes. After viewing those results they are choosing to expand the grab bag/lockbox system. That seems like a pretty solid indication of which options generate more revenue. (Please note that I am not supporting the idea of lockboxes and/or grab bags, merely speculating on what seem to be obvious inferences).
This model has been tested on a Cryptic title and, after being in play for some time in that other game, they are choosing to bring them here. Thats not a logical fallacy, that is likely to be based on proven results.
I want to know what Legacy crafted costume kit is in drifter store i love costume peiaces but only if i know what hell im possibly getting so What is this thing
The contents actually look pretty cool, can't say I'd mind getting some of those four slotters. The STO boxes had a lot of lame drops, like pets and boosts for things you didn't really need any more of (xp is kinda worthless if you're at the level cap). But the bottom line is, they wouldn't put it in if they didn't make money. They're in the business of making money, not trolling. Don't like the damn things? Sell them, they go 1g a pop just about. That's way better than the STO ones sell for.
What I'd like, is to know that those of us with questionite and zen frozen in the exchange currently will get our stuff back. This is seriously not cool, and the silence on the issue is troubling.
This model has been tested on a Cryptic title and, after being in play for some time in that other game, they are choosing to bring them here. Thats not a logical fallacy, that is likely to be based on proven results.
Very true, however said game is a year younger, has a bigger staff and twice (maybe more) the content. So the money generated is being put to good use. I wouldn't complain if that were the case on Champions.
So the money generated is being put to good use. I wouldn't complain if that were the case on Champions.
If the revenue generated by lock-boxes and such results in significant increases in content development I think the tone of a thread such as this might change dramatically.
Nobody in this thread is lining up to buy them, pretty much as (almost) nobody on the forums was lining up to buy grab bags when they were introduced. And yet the grabbags seem to have sold/continue to sell. On this sort of subject the forums have a history of seeming to be completely out of touch with the actual playerbase as a whole.
Crypt/PWE has access to the numbers behind sales results for things released to be purchased in the C-Store, and those released via grab bags or lockboxes. After viewing those results they are choosing to expand the grab bag/lockbox system. That seems like a pretty solid indication of which options generate more revenue. (Please note that I am not supporting the idea of lockboxes and/or grab bags, merely speculating on what seem to be obvious inferences).
This model has been tested on a Cryptic title and, after being in play for some time in that other game, they are choosing to bring them here. Thats not a logical fallacy, that is likely to be based on proven results.
^^^this^^^ right there...
Every time a Grab Bag is released, I see rage on the forums. But I also see a crap load of Grab Bag items in chat for trade. The small percentage of players who post in the forums may not like them, but they sell. And by selling, they keep the game afloat long enough for us to complain about the next round of Grab Bags...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Righto, will stop making annoying posts about it now.
I don't suppose you could make one more, could you? I wasn't aware that there'sa bug with the exchange and wouldn't mind knowing more about it considering I've been stockpiling Q and was considering exchanging it before the rates get any further out of my favor.
If the revenue generated by lock-boxes and such results in significant increases in content development I think the tone of a thread such as this might change dramatically.
Precedent suggests we will see no new content, and more greed.
Before adding more obvious gimmicks taken from other games, how about just fixing the game as is? Until you have everything working, it seems silly to pile more worthless junk on top. Is PW some kind of hoarders collective???
It sure seems like they bought an interesting, different, diverse game and have been steadily trying to homogenize it since. I was happy when I saw they were trying to balance the game, I'm now horrified because they did it by taking out, or making obsolete, anything different. I'm, frankly, a little surprised that they haven't erased darkspeed from the game, since it's cool, functional and not a watered down item like becomes.
I love the idea of a super hero game, but CO is becoming less & less one every day. If they made a game based on the original paper game Champions, I would HAPPILY pay 5-10 times as much for it. All point based powers, even items are paid for with character points. NO treasure at all, except experience. Like a frikkin hero, instead of some vulture picking over corpses...
Yeaaaa.... As someone who's had a Gold account in this game from day one...
This kind of "gamble on insanely overpowered gear" crap and lockboxes and so on is getting to the point where I'm contemplating quitting for good.
This just isn't a solid game anymore, but a hollowed out shell of a game that has lost all substance to make room for hare brained monetization schemes.
Free to Play is to the games industry what credit default swaps were for the banking sector. Make a quick buck today, destroy the game in the long run.
Never Played STO, I mean I tried it and didn't like it, Wise you can sell them to a Vendor or Something. Not everyone got the money for Keys, I for one won't be into it and I am Sure people be out gathering them up.
I
*The random-legacy items has been one of the most consistent pieces of feedback. I'll pass it on.
*I agree that this was a well-built prize table. I was present for some of the dev meeting on this, and the outline that they used to build it was very well thought-out.
*Interesting. I haven't played around with transferring Salvage at all myself, it's character-specific right now?
Make Drifter Salvage account wide (or transferable to another character) and I'm totally sold!
After two and a half (mostly) good years, I uninstalled CO last night out of pure frustration and disappointment. These lockboxes and how the legacy costume pieces, devices, and AFs were added was the final drop to months of game-breaking patches and lackluster new content.
You have to pay if you absolutely must have those ugly costume pieces right this day.
Or you can do the dailies they always toss up on the Drifter for free salvage and unlock them over time. Like the rest of us had to do.
Random kind of sucks though, I guess. Maybe it should have been a token you buy, with a vendor that lets you select a piece.
Considering they are listed under "Halloween Store" how are you sure they will even be there in 3 weeks? Last I checked, Halloween was not a year-long event.
Not "kind of", random absolutely sucks. And seriously, 60 salvage? As much as I want SOME of the old can't-get-anymore costume skins, there is NO WAY I'm dumping 60 salvage on a blind, random chance.
Nope... don't have them now, won't have them tomorrow I guess. :mad:
Comments
This feels like a totally cheating grab for my money!
These items were IN THE GAME and then REMOVED arbitrarily, now we can only get them back by grinding or paying?
AND
It's random?
Ripoff.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Does this system help the company to dodge having to put a fair percentage of getting a good reward from these boxes?
Also about Drifter Salvage: Do the Drifter bags give us 4-20 salvage per bag or not? The Legacy items in the game were free to collect and now you just removed them and put a price tag on it. We want a legacy store to buy what we want without random chance.
You can get salvage for free, stop whining.
Yes, it will take a long time. It also took a long time to make those dumb crafted costume pieces.
Hmmm okay, so this is how you like it?
I think it's the random part that really chapped my hide, the silver champs reg vendor is a god awful grind, but at least i can choose my reward.
And you're right it did take a long time, I already had most of the Arms ones and was working on the science ones. I don't want to get a repeat for all my trouble. [Don't give me *&^% about selling them, if I wanted to sell stuff I would.]
How god awful high the prices are- no way is this right.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
The difference is now we have to pay 20 to 60 dollars for each kit and the reward is random. Before Alert you had a choice of what you made.
You have to pay if you absolutely must have those ugly costume pieces right this day.
Or you can do the dailies they always toss up on the Drifter for free salvage and unlock them over time. Like the rest of us had to do.
Random kind of sucks though, I guess. Maybe it should have been a token you buy, with a vendor that lets you select a piece.
And cheaper
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Legacy Items - I think it's awful that instead of letting us purchase specific legacy items (or even perhaps bundled packs of related items), they are available as a grab bag that is purchased with currency obtained by other grab bags. I do very much consider it a slap in the face. I would have been begrudgingly accepting of having to purchase the items with Drifter Salvage if we were purchasing a specific Legacy Item rather than a grab bag.
The new lockboxes - Personally, I disliked most of the grab bags and such. Especially the ones where most of the time you only would receive 1 Drifter Salvage. I have not purchased a grab bag, only getting them from daily missions. I do feel these new lockboxes actually may have some value looking at the full prize table. Seeing a full prize table is very appreciated at the very least. I might wish there were some odds given on how likely you are to win which prize. Compared to past grab bags, I could feel I didn't completely waste a dollar if I do decide to purchase some lockbox keys someday if future lockboxes follow how these Halloween ones are. I'm still not sure I will buy them, just saying that the lockboxes don't feel like they were slapped together by the same cheapskates as the grab bags that only gave Drifter Salvage most of the time.
Also, please consider making Drifter Salvage account wide rather than character specific.
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How to win first place prize and second place prize for the event?
-I really like the items the boxes contain such as the x25 mods, it makes fusing for lv9 mods so much easier. thank you for providing a large amount of mods and not just a few.
The only thing that i would like change is for the team xp boost not to be account bound. not much use when the character that got it is already lv40 can this be looked into or fowarded to the team trailturtle?.
Thanks
Ingame under @AceMcCloud1007 leader of Heavy Artillery.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well the issue is this is replacing our rewards for beating a in game boss.
Oh look!! YOU GOT A REWARD~!
Oh look... you have to pay to get a random draw out of it....
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Anyways, this is not supposed to be a 'replacer'. This essentially works on the little trick where when you find these boxes, you feel the urge to get the keys more so than you would to go and buy a grab bag. Mobs drop these things like candy, so i can see where the pressure is.
It's the idea that this is something that will continue to be. Instead of outright selling things, we'll have to gamble scramble for them. Yeah, we may get costume sets and such, but I've got a feeling that this is going to be the next wave of costumes and gear.
I for one don't associate 'gaming' and 'gambling', nor do I equate 'spending money for a chance at an advantage' with 'fun'.
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Also, reading the article has me confused. Are you saying you have to come first in fighting Takofanes to get the doomlord dropbox and still pay. or is this two separate things, where any drop box still gives it, but takofanes drops it 100% and it's not in a box?
I definitely will not be wasting any money on this, because i can not encourage this idea of yours and sincerely hope everyone else is against it and that you might listen and discontinue this lock-box routine.
I would actually buy that celestial become device, if it were in cstore though, I always have rotten luck with any box giving salvage to always get only 2 and never higher.
I haven't seen the numbers for CO yet, but on the other game I work on (Jade Dynasty), delivering items through grab bags makes financial sense.
Not sure how I feel about them making a new series. I haven't watched that many eps, but I did enjoy them.
I have absolutely zero confirmation, but I haven't heard anything about it only being in the Drifter store for a limited time... but the flip side is that they are in the Halloween Store tab. I'll ask the devs about that tomorrow -- they may not have a plan for it yet, though.
*The random-legacy items has been one of the most consistent pieces of feedback. I'll pass it on.
*I agree that this was a well-built prize table. I was present for some of the dev meeting on this, and the outline that they used to build it was very well thought-out.
*Interesting. I haven't played around with transferring Salvage at all myself, it's character-specific right now?
If I understand it correctly, every enemy you defeat has a chance to drop this, and that chance is separate from the normal loot table. Unless I am badly mistaken, this does not replace any rewards -- it is purely additive.
I have seen it in practice now, I see what you mean. I take it back ^^
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Seriously, here's a simple formula for good development: for every reward, you can either have our TIME or our MONEY, not both. If you want to make something a random drop, fine, but it shouldn't take Zen to get. If you want to make something cost Zen, fine, but we want to know EXACTLY what we're getting before we buy. When you make us spend a HUGE amount of Zen to get a CHANCE of getting something, that's money-grubbing disrespect at it's lowest.
Sadly, yes, Drifter Salvage is character specific like Recognition is. I have 5 or 6 characters with between 2 and 15 salvage each. If it was pooled together on the account level, probably around 25-35 salvage. As such, it'll be a long time until I ever use it. Even if I was cool with the Legacy items being in a grab bag at the Drifter store, the price for them is too much.
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Aye, probably my biggest stinker that I have with the system.
Being a person that didn't have all that much time to go into the research portion of it to create the costume pieces, I (Kind of) like the randomized portion of the costume parts. It makes it feel like a surprise each time. HOWEVER, I am able to see that the randomization portion of it is very sour to those who would have most of the drops. If, say, the price was cheaper, then it wouldn't feel like such a kick to the knockers to these people.
To myself, I don't mind it until I start unlocking them...Then I would start getting annoyed at repeat unlocks.
Not one for random, but I can ignore lockboxes. As long as everything doesn't start coming in one...
Deliciously nutritious!
Yes, slightly mis-worded that, but my exhasperation remains. With that much money going into getting just ONE bag, I wan to KNOW what I'm getting before I buy.
I don't like the entire concept of lockboxes (a gamble bag I have to pay to open? No thanks!), but some of the complaints have been a bit over the top. For instance, Gerberatetra, the "grind" to get these open for free, while pretty doggone severe (20k Q per key, last I checked the Q-exchange, and it's probably going to get worse), it's nothing compared with the grind to get the components to make them back when they were Crafting items. (There were tales at the time of players taking over a year to gather all the drops they needed...)
And I understand these wondrous 4-slot items have no innate boosts at all, only those derived from what's slotted. Which probably makes those 25-mod drops really handy, so you can fuse them until you have a couple of fairly good mods to slot. Should help with the perennial issue with increasing your Skill since the mod/fusion thing went live, too.
So, yeah, these things suck conceptually - but as I keep yelling at the TV when political ads come on, aren't there enough legitimate complaints to make that you don't need to invent any?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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There is very little in the game that is not already steamroll-able. This has been the case pretty much all along. The most that could possibly happen is that someone who was already steamrolling everything would still be able to do so. Its not pay to win when you can easily win without paying.
To be honest I am not sure what one would have to work long and hard to get a shot at.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Well, weaker Q value is in their favor after all.
Are you sure that you aren't remembering tales about the Crafted Travel Powers rather than the time to craft one costume ?
Im not saying that the costumes weren't a grind, I just dont remember it being that bad.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Hypothetically speaking... If the majority (or even "a plurality") of the people buying keys are doing it via stipend/q-for-zen exchange, how exactly are you generating any money? Lifetimers with huuuuuuge piles of stipend might not bat an eyelash at buying keys. People who have leftover monthly-stipend buildup might decide "meh, what else can i do with 100 zen, amirite?" and buy a key here and there (even though they might have 10 boxes to open and will only get to see the contents of a single box). But somebody who is enthralled with this game due to its FREE-to-play nature isn't going to suddenly dump 30$ into PW's pocket just to get random-number-generated box unlockers, are they? Why not just subscribe, and get "free" monthly zen, and get your keys that way, along with all the other benefits of subscription? It basically sounds like a loss-leader, to use the term (perhaps incorrectly). But what are you "leading the loss" for? Are we missing something here?
It sounds to me like this is a logical fallacy, this whole "boxes = money" argument, because nobody seems to be lining up to directly pay for this with cold hard cash/credit card. Stipend, maybe, but not cash-for-zen-for-keys. Do you have any data to back up this "boxes = money" statement? Is it worth alienating a percentage of the playerbase to "make money" from a different percentage? Is there not a happy medium to be found? (Actually, I have the answer for that last question: as a number of people have already said, sell us things DIRECTLY, not via RNG-Boxes. It seems people would like to buy them. It's called 'knowing what you're paying for'.)
I realize that I might as well be talking to the wall, because =this= is the direction that's already been chosen. But hey, I had time to waste, and the wall looked like it needed a good talkin'-to. :biggrin:
Nobody in this thread is lining up to buy them, pretty much as (almost) nobody on the forums was lining up to buy grab bags when they were introduced. And yet the grabbags seem to have sold/continue to sell. On this sort of subject the forums have a history of seeming to be completely out of touch with the actual playerbase as a whole.
Crypt/PWE has access to the numbers behind sales results for things released to be purchased in the C-Store, and those released via grab bags or lockboxes. After viewing those results they are choosing to expand the grab bag/lockbox system. That seems like a pretty solid indication of which options generate more revenue. (Please note that I am not supporting the idea of lockboxes and/or grab bags, merely speculating on what seem to be obvious inferences).
This model has been tested on a Cryptic title and, after being in play for some time in that other game, they are choosing to bring them here. Thats not a logical fallacy, that is likely to be based on proven results.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
What I'd like, is to know that those of us with questionite and zen frozen in the exchange currently will get our stuff back. This is seriously not cool, and the silence on the issue is troubling.
Very true, however said game is a year younger, has a bigger staff and twice (maybe more) the content. So the money generated is being put to good use. I wouldn't complain if that were the case on Champions.
If the revenue generated by lock-boxes and such results in significant increases in content development I think the tone of a thread such as this might change dramatically.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
^^^this^^^ right there...
Every time a Grab Bag is released, I see rage on the forums. But I also see a crap load of Grab Bag items in chat for trade. The small percentage of players who post in the forums may not like them, but they sell. And by selling, they keep the game afloat long enough for us to complain about the next round of Grab Bags...
So it's all good...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
When I was in-game, someone brought it up. I'm aware, no worries.
I don't suppose you could make one more, could you? I wasn't aware that there'sa bug with the exchange and wouldn't mind knowing more about it considering I've been stockpiling Q and was considering exchanging it before the rates get any further out of my favor.
Precedent suggests we will see no new content, and more greed.
They're just grabbin' yo' money.
xD! oh well... I am short of words on this one. Money grabbing in this MMO?? err.... like if the player base was big to begin, lol.
I am not going to discuss on this topic, just found out this assertion quite... amusing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
Well... Those new things made me crazy like monkey for spending my real money. xD
I love this. xD
It sure seems like they bought an interesting, different, diverse game and have been steadily trying to homogenize it since. I was happy when I saw they were trying to balance the game, I'm now horrified because they did it by taking out, or making obsolete, anything different. I'm, frankly, a little surprised that they haven't erased darkspeed from the game, since it's cool, functional and not a watered down item like becomes.
I love the idea of a super hero game, but CO is becoming less & less one every day. If they made a game based on the original paper game Champions, I would HAPPILY pay 5-10 times as much for it. All point based powers, even items are paid for with character points. NO treasure at all, except experience. Like a frikkin hero, instead of some vulture picking over corpses...
Saying that, the upgrade catalyst prices need to be GUTTED to reflect, because they are laughable as they are.
This kind of "gamble on insanely overpowered gear" crap and lockboxes and so on is getting to the point where I'm contemplating quitting for good.
This just isn't a solid game anymore, but a hollowed out shell of a game that has lost all substance to make room for hare brained monetization schemes.
Free to Play is to the games industry what credit default swaps were for the banking sector. Make a quick buck today, destroy the game in the long run.
Make Drifter Salvage account wide (or transferable to another character) and I'm totally sold!
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
Considering they are listed under "Halloween Store" how are you sure they will even be there in 3 weeks? Last I checked, Halloween was not a year-long event.
Not "kind of", random absolutely sucks. And seriously, 60 salvage? As much as I want SOME of the old can't-get-anymore costume skins, there is NO WAY I'm dumping 60 salvage on a blind, random chance.
Nope... don't have them now, won't have them tomorrow I guess. :mad:
People are broken. - Lum the Mad