I agree with bloodX I feel that to ignore pvp or trying to do away with pvp is wrong.Alot of the things needing fixing haven't been fixed.All to create a negative feeling towards pvp and the pvper's.I can't understand why someone who don't wanna do their job wants to do away with a system if fixed could make its game popular.What's even sad is that the way cryptic goes about treating their costumers case in point of why this game could die.You trying to get rid of a piece of a game,but yet have not added new pve content in almost a year.I feel if you don't want the responsibility give it to someone who cares and move on.Why put someone in charge who doesn't want the job.Instead of creating negative attitude towards the whole pvp situation more people would support pvp if things are fixed.
Wait he had a thing against emo RP?! I thought he had things against ahem naughty RP, that would make sense, but emo just means Rp with emotion so....
ok moving on PVP I said previously why I think its a valued part of the game so really hope this PVP thingy really is just a oversight, a big one sure but cryptic are good at making misstakes often not on purpose though, so humm hopefully this gets resolved soon.
Look, to make Hero Games workable as a proper PvP game and not just the current two power happy land it has to be disconnected from CO. Until then no one will be happy with. Not the devs because they got to stuff the square peg into the round hole. And not the players who demand the round hole be squared off.
as long as people can choose what powers they get: pvp will always be broken becuase you will always have those guys who want to win no matter the cost.
even AT pvp is filled with those guys.
the devs cant fix what they have no control over, that being the player.
in champions: PvP will never be balanced and most people who encounter those "cookie cutter" builds will have a very sour taste in thier mouths and be turned off by it
as long as people can choose what powers they get: pvp will always be broken becuase you will always have those guys who want to win no matter the cost.
even AT pvp is filled with those guys.
the devs cant fix what they have no control over, that being the player.
in champions: PvP will never be balanced and most people who encounter those "cookie cutter" builds will have a very sour taste in thier mouths and be turned off by it
This thread isnt about balance but about the bugs that have been around over a year and about the items promised in the on alert patch that never happened.
You said first "If its broken in PvP its also broken in PvE". No i want just to know where
Force Geyser is broken in PvE. Its cleary a power everyone abuses in PvP, but i don't
even know anybody who uses it in PvE, so .. where is it broken in PvE ?
Well... I use it, because tinted in an orange shade it looks like a remote-detonated explosive!
...
I think that wasn't the point though. To summarize my thoughts here: I dont give a single f*ck about PvP. Should it be supported? Yes. Just because there are people who aren't interested in it (me included) doesn't mean that another flavor of this game should go away, not as long as there are still enough active PvPers to fill one BASH and have fun with it. So support it! NOW!
The same holds true for PvE and those strange guys who are doing that devil-worshipping, teenage pregnancy-inducing, socialist propaganda-spreading RP thing. (WITCHCRAFT!!!)
I don't think Nepht is mad. I think you amuse her in the same way she would be amused by a youtube video of a squirrel trying to climb a tree while catastrophically drunk from eating fermented fruit.
Sorry but i usually do not really enjoy quoting a wall of text, especially not if it contains huge colored letters. And in your case i had to highlight the more important things a bit. I could have put a few [..] you know but i didn't feel like doing that. Don't get mad please.
I don't think Nepht is mad. I think you amuse her in the same way she would be amused by a youtube video of a squirrel trying to climb a tree while catastrophically drunk from eating fermented fruit.
Spot on observation , I look forward to the next Neo post almost as much as I do the next Shev post.
as long as people can choose what powers they get: pvp will always be broken becuase you will always have those guys who want to win no matter the cost.
even AT pvp is filled with those guys.
the devs cant fix what they have no control over, that being the player.
in champions: PvP will never be balanced and most people who encounter those "cookie cutter" builds will have a very sour taste in thier mouths and be turned off by it
^^ This has been the problem for a while now. New folks are eager to try pvp.
They do. Get destroyed by same ol' tierd build. Leave and don't come back.
But not only do they not come back to hero games/pvp, they now hate pvpers and condem it!
Now not everyone does this, but a lot do. Many of my pals formely of Coh sure do.
By not having power balance and people making builds with oped or broken powers, on top
of not much in the way of rewards, why would a person pvp?
To fight other builds just like them? It isn't enough. And players as well as the Devs have made this very clear by their actions...or lack of.
Until players can choose their opponents in PvP the Hero Games will remain unpopulated.
Its that simple.
Until the population of the Hero Games is increased, I do NOT support adding hero games content nor rewards.
C'mon Jaybezz, even Ryder's been commin out to play. Expecting the HG pop to dramatically change without incentive is saying you don't want pvp to populate if you can't have it your way.
I just did some bashes and a UTC earlier, it still pops, even without real rewards. It would pop more if people could find it rewarding to invest the time. If not for my previous pvp experience and extensive working knowledge of the game I'd never start pvping as there is no incentive other than pvp perks that are largely unobtainable in a reasonable amount of time.
I play on and off every few months since On Alert launched, and the truth I am very disappointed. Not because people are forced into 1-2 variations of the same build to be competitive but because of the stagnance of PvP.
When things were wrong they used to get dealt with one way or another, even if it took time. Now when there are issues with PvP I see less and less effort to correct them. It was a trend that took years to set in. Here's a small timeline: When Swallow Tail Cut was broke, it didn't take long to fix. Then we have holds like ego hold. hey got fixed even if it did take a couple trys. Then there was Enrage. Took some time for that to get nerfed, and it felt like forever. Bug fixes and balance issues seem to take longer and longer to happen. And now no matter how long I leave the game, when I come back nothing has happened to PvP.
I agree with Xeno that PvP is just getting pushed into oblivion. I don't know who to point the finger at but it is pretty obvious.
You cant blame the players for playing the only thing the game has to offer. And no single person is responsible for the state of PvP probably, but someone who gets paid by cryptic/PWE should do something for us, god knows how long some of us have been waiting.
Until players can choose their opponents in PvP the Hero Games will remain unpopulated.
Its that simple.
Until the population of the Hero Games is increased, I do NOT support adding hero games content nor rewards.
No, your statement is not that simple, it's unrealistic.
PVP in every game from X-Box to PC, when have you ever got to sit there and choose your opponent?
And The population is so low because there is no incentive for people to want to PVP without questonite or gear to buy for questionite. Before the On-alert pass PVP was hugely popular with hero games popping constantly, even for PVE content (Zombie Apoc)
So why is pvp not popular, because of the dileberate efforts to make it unpopular by Crush and by leaving PVP out of the On-alert Pass.
On Alert was never finished, it went out with not enough spit & polish. A lot of things were said in channels about what we were going to get and we didn't get a lot of them. It's been very obvious that GC does not like PvP and whether that had some effect on what's happened to PvP is unknown. Maybe yes, maybe no. We can't play the blame game because we don't know.
However, what can be said is that GC was the one who planned and laid out itemization and he was the one who executed it, so any fault with it lies with him.
On Alert was never finished, it went out with not enough spit & polish. A lot of things were said in channels about what we were going to get and we didn't get a lot of them. It's been very obvious that GC does not like PvP and whether that had some effect on what's happened to PvP is unknown. Maybe yes, maybe no. We can't play the blame game because we don't know.
However, what can be said is that GC was the one who planned and laid out itemization and he was the one who executed it, so any fault with it lies with him.
You made a good argument without ranting like a Xenomorph version of Fox Freaking Mulder with 12 stacks of enrage and a can of red bull shoved up my tin foil covered ****.
BUT at the time Robobo was in charge of Champions Online and Crush was still sort of a newish guy he wouldnt have had the clout to sabotage PvP ( anyway no CO dev would want to intentionally break CO thats stupid talk). I cannot see how Crush is to blame in anyway. He had great ideas that he wasnt allowed to finish it seems.
All the evidence points to Crush having great ideas but getting pulled and put elsewhere to do other stuff .
If your gonna blame anyone blame Robobo he was the guy in charge the buck stops with him.
*edit* Just would like to add attacking devs is a great way to get PvP fixed. iSARCASM
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Adding PvE rewards to PvP will not bring more PvPers.
It will simply reward the 6 people who play BASH. Taking programming time to reward 6 players is a waste of resources that could be spent on things that affect the entire player-base.
When a new player goes into PvP and has a ****ty experience, they don't return. There is almost 0 chance to get into PvP as a new player.
I've taken my SG mates into PvP and we've had fun.. but it was mostly because we tried to fill the Queue with other players who were at our relative skill level (many of them brand new). The second one of "the PvPers" joined our Queue they started saying "I am never going to do that again"
Real experiences from real players are what affect the game population. And since we're never going to have balance in build making, we have to be able to CHOOSE balance in our match-ups.
Comparing CO-PvP to any other game is not a valid comparison. Many games have PvP in mind upon creation.. Champions Online would need to kill off all the OP builds in order to support Open Queue PvP. And I personally do not want them to spend the time and energy nerfing FoTMs when there is a much easier, quicker solution.
Then all the FoTM players can enjoy playing with each other, but I can still enjoy playing without them.
Adding PvE rewards to PvP will not bring more PvPers.
It will simply reward the 6 people who play BASH. Taking programming time to reward 6 players is a waste of resources that could be spent on things that affect the entire player-base.
When a new player goes into PvP and has a ****ty experience, they don't return. There is almost 0 chance to get into PvP as a new player.
I've taken my SG mates into PvP and we've had fun.. but it was mostly because we tried to fill the Queue with other players who were at our relative skill level (many of them brand new). The second one of "the PvPers" joined our Queue they started saying "I am never going to do that again"
Real experiences from real players are what affect the game population. And since we're never going to have balance in build making, we have to be able to CHOOSE balance in our match-ups.
Comparing CO-PvP to any other game is not a valid comparison. Many games have PvP in mind upon creation.. Champions Online would need to kill off all the OP builds in order to support Open Queue PvP. And I personally do not want them to spend the time and energy nerfing FoTMs when there is a much easier, quicker solution.
Then all the FoTM players can enjoy playing with each other, but I can still enjoy playing without them.
Sorry to burst your bubble hobbo but I played Bash for a bit last night and I would say I seen at least 30 people I have never met before and got my **** handed to me by at least 20 I knew of.
As I said to another person we know you cant just turn up and Bash sections of the community for no good reason and you were all happy we all did ( your greifing thread ) BUT that door swings both ways.
Saying only 6 people do Bash is BS.
Maybe if you stop attacking PvPers the PvPers might stop attacking you. You do that often you think dueling in ren cen is Greifing. I am a roleplayer and I get on just grand with the PvP lot.
*edit* Roleplayers with PvE builds that do a little Bash cannot expect to win against players that do nothing but PvP . Example I have a sorta FoTM PvP Build on Nepht but I dont expect to beat Malware or Xeno and I sure as hell wont cry cry about it when they hand me my ****.
Theres enough Infernos daft enough to do bash for us roleplayers to gank
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Honestly, I'm not too big a fan of him either. For goodness sakes, would it be so hard to revert back tot he old queue system, or make a new one for that matter? And why the high prices? If it's not for what Xeno said, then it's gotta be for something. Crush's ways are starting to seem more and more bad, and this is the icing on the cake.
Honestly, I'm not too big a fan of him either. For goodness sakes, would it be so hard to revert back tot he old queue system, or make a new one for that matter? And why the high prices? If it's not for what Xeno said, then it's gotta be for something. Crush's ways are starting to seem more and more bad, and this is the icing on the cake.
MaHOOF wuts up man \o/
Theres no denying PvP is busted but Xeno is blaming the wrong guy.
At the time of On Alert Robobo was to blame and who ever is the head dev now is to blame for it not being fixed. Not Crush.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Hmm..not having a mod/dev react to this post at the very least is a problem.
Not implementing what was promised is bad mojo. Somebody needs to address this thread is some form or another.
Yes, coming out and bad mouthing a person doesn't help, but the topic of removing pvp from the game seems more and more viable without some kind of response.
All this can be put to rest with some back and fourth. But silence will only confirm what Xeno fears most...death of pvp.
Ay gurl. And I did not know that. Well, now Robobo is just awful to me.
Nepht is defending someone whom has given her much of which she enjoys in CO. She is not a committed PVP'er, she likes to swing both ways. Which is cool. I like to see more players like her in PVP to be honest because her involvement and the involvement of others like her is what made PVP so awesome before the pass.. But while PVE is doing really good with a Dev Staff that is at the very least doing something for it. But the issues for PVP does belong on Crush. He was the flag holder for the "On-Alert Pass," that's a fact. It was advertised in the game as that fact. Hired for that fact and publicized by Crush himself to that fact. And another fact is, Crush openly stated on NUMEROUS occasions his contempt for PVP and the PVP community. IN GAME. Is it no wonder that the only aspect of the game and speaking in his numbers, 1% of the game doesn?t make it through the On-alert pass? Nept, I know you?re smarter than this. So too play devil's advocate, a full year later of begging to be included and not excluded and our threads are closed, moved and locked? All we are asking for is questionite instead of acclaim and a few measly pieces of gear on the vendors that gives us something to grind for. The very things you enjoy so much Nepht about PVE. Can we have a turn to now please? And since we've been in line for a year now can we please get someone to help us who does not hate us? I blame this perception in their attitude that we don't matter and I choose to not accept that. When I told Crush with the pvp community in his channel that his agenda was to leave PVP out of the On-Alert pass, he kicked me from the Channel. I leveled in the Hero games. I played against many of the People that are now considered Legends of PvP when they were just Level 10 and they ALL HATE my guys but even they will tell you I am telling the truth to you. .
Nepht is defending someone whom has given her much of which she enjoys in CO. She is not a committed PVP'er, she likes to swing both ways. Which is cool. I like to see more players like her in PVP to be honest because her involvement and the involvement of others like her is what made PVP so awesome before the pass.. But while PVE is doing really good with a Dev Staff that is at the very least doing something for it. But the issues for PVP does belong on Crush. He was the flag holder for the "On-Alert Pass," that's a fact. It was advertised in the game as that fact. Hired for that fact and publicized by Crush himself to that fact. And another fact is, Crush openly stated on NUMEROUS occasions his contempt for PVP and the PVP community. IN GAME. Is it no wonder that the only aspect of the game and speaking in his numbers, 1% of the game doesn?t make it through the On-alert pass? Nept, I know you?re smarter than this. So too play devil's advocate, a full year later of begging to be included and not excluded and our threads are closed, moved and locked? All we are asking for is questionite instead of acclaim and a few measly pieces of gear on the vendors that gives us something to grind for. The very things you enjoy so much Nepht about PVE. Can we have a turn to now please? And since we've been in line for a year now can we please get someone to help us who does not hate us? I blame this perception in their attitude that we don't matter and I choose to not accept that. When I told Crush with the pvp community in his channel that his agenda was to leave PVP out of the On-Alert pass, he kicked me from the Channel. I leveled in the Hero games. I played against many of the People that are now considered Legends of PvP when they were just Level 10 and they ALL HATE my guys but even they will tell you I am telling the truth to you. .
-Xeno
-
Your missing my point.
Xeno most of what you said about Crush not being a fan of PvP is true but he's allowed his opinion of what play style he likes. I wouldnt say I was defending anyone my point is Crush is not a one man team , theres no way he could wreck PvP on purpose and to be honest I dont think he would want to anyway.
And way am I saying I am not defending anyone? Consider this.
One man couldnt wreck PvP. No what has happened is a team failure and a team failure is far far worse than one man messing up. The team dealing with PvP failed , the QA team failed and ultimately Robobo failed.
Now do you see my point.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Then it failed and they intended to hide that behind an effort to remove PvP. We were there when Crush pronounced that they didn't give a damn about it.
No I don't see your point. Question, and since my point is much more time specific.
1. At the time when the On-Alert pass was implemented why was PVP the only aspect left
out?
-Xeno.
-
The problem is that the answer to the question you are asking is one you don't like.
A) Because PvPers are a marginal population (and it is, there's no justification otherwise, it's been officially stated, regardless of whether it's true or agreed upon, this is where we stand)
This is unlikely to change regardless of implementation
C) Therefore increased resources towards PvP is not something the cost-benefit analysts would suggest.
I understand that it would take very little to satisfy your needs, but that goes for many, many things in this game from the most basic unlocking of costume pieces in the character creator, or fixing the log in thing so my PWE name comes up instead of my Cryptic one despite me checking it off, up to and beyond targetting being crapnificent, because
D) Not changing it produces dramatically equal results as changing it, with the added bonus of not introducing the possibility of more bugs or unhappy players than there already are.
Now, maybe I'm completely wrong and this actually all is a personal vendetta against PvPers, in which case - now what? You continue to be ignored in public and mocked in private while your impotent rage serves as dramedy fuel for the masses?
Don't get me wrong, I love PvP in this game, and I think that the solutions put forth would go a long way towards something, however I don't think standing guns akimbo in the blue nowhere to fight for the rights of the metaverse is quite as effective as kissing someone's **** until they agree with you. Personally, I'm godawful at the latter, but if you really want change, maybe the white glove is a bit much.
Look!! We got Vehicles!!! That only took 3 years and everybody* wanted that ****.
No I don't see your point. Question, and since my point is much more time specific.
1. At the time when the On-Alert pass was implemented why was PVP the only aspect left
out?
-Xeno.
-
We gonna have to agree to disagree on whos to blame who knows what really happened.
But you are wrong about PvP being left out with On Alert it wasn't left out it was sh@t upon.
PvP is the next thing that should be fixed on CO no matter who messed it up. Its a bad day when a freaking roleplayer is saying its out of order the way PvP has been treated.
Then it failed and they intended to hide that behind an effort to remove PvP. We were there when Crush pronounced that they didn't give a damn about it.
*edit*
I am an open minded person and seeing that more than one person is saying they seen this happen (said people that dont get on backing each other up) I find this disturbing indeed. He should not have said he didnt give a damn about PvP he is a CO dev he should care about the whole game , but still it would take a team uneffort to wreck it so.
*double edit* Double reading Mr Forz's post it seems as a team they purposely messed up PvP
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
*This isnt a PvP vs RP post I am a roleplayer myself and my bro Ginger has allowed me to mention him *
Right I actually now think Xeno is right about this one a strong argument has been made.
Right to those devs that might be reading this READ THIS AND TAKE HEED!
Who is worth more as a customer we will take two examples.
Customer No 1: Nesno a long time monthly fee paying Gold Member who likes to PvP.
Customer No 2: My brother Gingervitus a long term no fee paying roleplayer with no toon over 20 and he only has 3.
Nesno is more likely to buy retcons, new travel powers and catalyst stuff while Ginger has only bought a few costume bits.
Nesno pays money each month. Ginger doesnt, I think he dropped $10 bucks into the game ONCE.
Gingervitus is a typical roleplayer he doesnt need new travel powers, he doesnt need freeform, he doesnt need catalysts, he doesnt need retcons. People like Nesno do.
I am in the Club Often and I am sorry if some people dont like this but most of the people there are under level 20 and havent paid a dime to the game. If die hard RP'ers dispute this I say to any random CO player walk into the club see for yourself.
Yes PvPers are a smaller community than us roleplayers but I would take a guess PvPers spend more in the cash shop. Its a bad idea for Devs to ***** upon them just because they personally dont like PvP or the PvP mentality . The Devs should get over it act professional and fix PvP .
Seriously this matters say a Dev appears that doesnt like Roleplay or PvE and starts to break those things what do you think would happen.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
*This isnt a PvP vs RP post I am a roleplayer myself and my bro Ginger has allowed me to mention him *
Right I actually now think Xeno is right about this one a strong argument has been made.
Right to those devs that might be reading this READ THIS AND TAKE HEED!
Who is worth more as a customer we will take two examples.
Customer No 1: Nesno a long time monthly fee paying Gold Member who likes to PvP.
Customer No 2: My brother Gingervitus a long term no fee paying roleplayer with no toon over 20 and he only has 3.
Nesno is more likely to buy retcons, new travel powers and catalyst stuff while Ginger has only bought a few costume bits.
Nesno pays money each month. Ginger doesnt, I think he dropped $10 bucks into the game ONCE.
Gingervitus is a typical roleplayer he doesnt need new travel powers, he doesnt need freeform, he doesnt need catalysts, he doesnt need retcons. People like Nesno do.
I am in the Club Often and I am sorry if some people dont like this but most of the people there are under level 20 and havent paid a dime to the game. If die hard RP'ers dispute this I say to any random CO player walk into the club see for yourself.
Yes PvPers are a smaller community than us roleplayers but I would take a guess PvPers spend more in the cash shop. Its a bad idea for Devs to ***** upon them just because they personally dont like PvP or the PvP mentality . The Devs should get over it act professional and fix PvP .
Seriously this matters say a Dev appears that doesnt like Roleplay or PvE and starts to break those things what do you think would happen.
^This. I mean, why ignore a part of the game that was made from the start? It's really just awful. Plus, the RP community doesn't really have a lot of people paying for gold. Matter of fact, I know quite a few who quit.
If you really need counterexamples of a RPer who's pay Gold, there's me. I've been paying the three month rate since launch, and I do know a few others who've done the same. Also, I've purchased a lot of C-points (though given the hassles I've had trying to buy zen with my credit card, I haven't bought any since the conversion to the new currency).
But that's a rabbit trail, and RPer vs. PVPer spending habits are irrelevant to the discussion, whih should center on the necessity of taking a few simple steps to restore PVP to its previous level. I would hope that the devs' ambitions for it would be even higher than that. Team duels are nice (if underutilized), but I'd love to see Free for All as well -- as a non-HG person, that would still be fun for casual play, especially if we can all gang up on Ryder. And even though I don't competitively PVP, I think leader boards and SG PVP challenges would be well worth it and shouldn't be too hard to implement (though judging from how long it's taking them to get scoring working correctly in alerts, I may be wrong on the latter point).
This is being done on purpose and not because of a lack of resources or time, seriously think about what needs to be done.
1. Convert Questionite from Acclaim - Maybe three hours of work in code.
2. Copy a few pieces of gear from the Questionite Vendor and put them on the PVP Vendor.
Easy, but not being done because it was the intention all along to leave PVP out of the pass. Exactly as I said he would.
If you really need counterexamples of a RPer who's pay Gold, there's me. I've been paying the three month rate since launch, and I do know a few others who've done the same. Also, I've purchased a lot of C-points (though given the hassles I've had trying to buy zen with my credit card, I haven't bought any since the conversion to the new currency).
But that's a rabbit trail, and RPer vs. PVPer spending habits are irrelevant to the discussion, whih should center on the necessity of taking a few simple steps to restore PVP to its previous level. I would hope that the devs' ambitions for it would be even higher than that. Team duels are nice (if underutilized), but I'd love to see Free for All as well -- as a non-HG person, that would still be fun for casual play, especially if we can all gang up on Ryder. And even though I don't competitively PVP, I think leader boards and SG PVP challenges would be well worth it and shouldn't be too hard to implement (though judging from how long it's taking them to get scoring working correctly in alerts, I may be wrong on the latter point).
I'm a gold rper to and the comparisons matter when GMC says pvpers dont matter he compared PvPers to RPers and PvErs.
I could have used PvErs or people who use champions as a glorified PM service but I only used RP as an example , look at the points I made and say a new dev turns up and holds those preconceptions about RP and decides to destroy it in CO?
There would be a massive outrage.
PvPers are more likely to fling their money away in a bid to be better than the next guy. Roleplayers and PvErs not so much.
Also I stated that my post wasnt a PvP vs RP it was only an example. No matter what type of gamestyle you like they ALL should get equal footing dev wise and devs shouldnt say on channels these people dont matter.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
If you really need counterexamples of a RPer who's pay Gold, there's me. I've been paying the three month rate since launch, and I do know a few others who've done the same. Also, I've purchased a lot of C-points (though given the hassles I've had trying to buy zen with my credit card, I haven't bought any since the conversion to the new currency).
But that's a rabbit trail, and RPer vs. PVPer spending habits are irrelevant to the discussion, whih should center on the necessity of taking a few simple steps to restore PVP to its previous level. I would hope that the devs' ambitions for it would be even higher than that. Team duels are nice (if underutilized), but I'd love to see Free for All as well -- as a non-HG person, that would still be fun for casual play, especially if we can all gang up on Ryder. And even though I don't competitively PVP, I think leader boards and SG PVP challenges would be well worth it and shouldn't be too hard to implement (though judging from how long it's taking them to get scoring working correctly in alerts, I may be wrong on the latter point).
You would want to gang up on the squish rougeish guy wouldn't you -.O
(jk)
There are teams for every thing from powers, maps, interface, ETC... No one team or person can really be blamed for the downfall of a broad section called PvP.
BUT at the same time President Obama is only one person. His word and influence go a long way though. Crush might have that kind of role and if he was against PvP, that could have serious implications.
We should be looking for a solution, and pressing it into oblivion. Pointing fingers does nothing. We should be branching out into other forums, getting heard. Writing emails, posting on Facebook, etc... Because what ever has been done for the last year has obviously had no effect...
*This isnt a PvP vs RP post I am a roleplayer myself and my bro Ginger has allowed me to mention him *
Right I actually now think Xeno is right about this one a strong argument has been made.
Right to those devs that might be reading this READ THIS AND TAKE HEED!
Who is worth more as a customer we will take two examples.
Customer No 1: Nesno a long time monthly fee paying Gold Member who likes to PvP.
Customer No 2: My brother Gingervitus a long term no fee paying roleplayer with no toon over 20 and he only has 3.
Nesno is more likely to buy retcons, new travel powers and catalyst stuff while Ginger has only bought a few costume bits.
Nesno pays money each month. Ginger doesnt, I think he dropped $10 bucks into the game ONCE.
Gingervitus is a typical roleplayer he doesnt need new travel powers, he doesnt need freeform, he doesnt need catalysts, he doesnt need retcons. People like Nesno do.
I am in the Club Often and I am sorry if some people dont like this but most of the people there are under level 20 and havent paid a dime to the game. If die hard RP'ers dispute this I say to any random CO player walk into the club see for yourself.
Yes PvPers are a smaller community than us roleplayers but I would take a guess PvPers spend more in the cash shop. Its a bad idea for Devs to ***** upon them just because they personally dont like PvP or the PvP mentality . The Devs should get over it act professional and fix PvP .
Seriously this matters say a Dev appears that doesnt like Roleplay or PvE and starts to break those things what do you think would happen.
I like that post sir, ma'am, sir.. And i absolutely agree with you. Take my life if you wanna,
after reading such beautiful words written by such a strange person.. nothing else matters anymore.
If you beleive in our efforts here, please go out and make your own post and voice your rightful opinion. It's not acceptable for them to Silence and Lock anyones threads when PVP is the topic. Let's see how many people they are willing to do this too in order to Silence the truth.
I like that post sir, ma'am, sir.. And i absolutely agree with you. Take my life if you wanna,
after reading such beautiful words written by such a strange person.. nothing else matters anymore.
For the first time ever : I do agree with you <-
First time for everything, but other players from other playstyles should take heed if it could happen to PvP it could happen to the others.
This issue should concern all players no matter what they like doing.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Haven't done a lot of PvP, played around with it when it wasn't dead before On Alert. Know plenty of others who enjoyed it a lot more. I don't really like the current state of it at all, and agree something more should be done to throw PvP a bone, at least.
I don't see why it matters that they're 1% or 2%. They're a presence, a part of the community, and anyone who is part of a community is just as important as the next person. Marginalization of segments of a customer base may be a corporate principle, but since when do we look to corporations for principles? They are frequently wrong. Not the way to handle a small game, anyway. If you want to grow you have to build up what you have, and if you have a small segment of people who love something then you have something to grow.
So toss some seeds, down, devs, sprinkle some water, could go a longer way than you think.
First time for everything, but other players from other playstyles should take heed if it could happen to PvP it could happen to the others.
This issue should concern all players no matter what they like doing.
Right, together we could actually achieve something.
I apologize once again, for having acted like a douchebag, sometimes i cannot control
my anger and other emotions too well. I acted like this, because i had gotten a little jealous over the almost 2 years playing co and the fact that the forums are available to silver players came in handy, since every update is/was/will be pve content i've gotten a little too upset. Ok the majority of people who got to read my ranting about senseless bs may already be thinking that i am quite retarded or a little shizophrenic.. but i guess it is the image that i have given to myself and have to live with it.
Right, together we could actually achieve something.
I apologize once again, for having acted like a douchebag, sometimes i cannot control
my anger and other emotions too well. I acted like this, because i had gotten a little jealous over the almost 2 years playing co and the fact that the forums are available to silver players came in handy, since every update is/was/will be pve content i've gotten a little too upset. Ok the majority of people who got to read my ranting about senseless bs may already be thinking that i am quite retarded or a little shizophrenic.. but i guess it is the image that i have given to myself and have to live with it.
Have a nice day, love and peace to you all.
Indeed if we all say OI! with a big enough voice they might listen. It has worked in the past. The Russian and Chinese CO vets arnt going to get kicked from the game anymore and that was due to players saying it aint right to do so ( though they still havent got their forum voice back ). The same can happen for PvP getting fixed ..hell PvP getting fixed is less of a mountain to climb than the region ban. It can be done.
Neo when I first posted here I was the biggest douche ever , some still think I'm still a big douche. Better to be a vocal douche than a silent saint.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Comments
ok moving on PVP I said previously why I think its a valued part of the game so really hope this PVP thingy really is just a oversight, a big one sure but cryptic are good at making misstakes often not on purpose though, so humm hopefully this gets resolved soon.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
even AT pvp is filled with those guys.
the devs cant fix what they have no control over, that being the player.
in champions: PvP will never be balanced and most people who encounter those "cookie cutter" builds will have a very sour taste in thier mouths and be turned off by it
This thread isnt about balance but about the bugs that have been around over a year and about the items promised in the on alert patch that never happened.
;/ ;/ ;/
@becca_black
I see through your LIES! :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well... I use it, because tinted in an orange shade it looks like a remote-detonated explosive!
...
I think that wasn't the point though. To summarize my thoughts here: I dont give a single f*ck about PvP. Should it be supported? Yes. Just because there are people who aren't interested in it (me included) doesn't mean that another flavor of this game should go away, not as long as there are still enough active PvPers to fill one BASH and have fun with it. So support it! NOW!
The same holds true for PvE and those strange guys who are doing that devil-worshipping, teenage pregnancy-inducing, socialist propaganda-spreading RP thing. (WITCHCRAFT!!!)
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
Oh, Mr. Neo, you entertain me!
And by the way people respond to your posts most people reckon your a genius roleplayer, roleplaying as a moron.
I also fixed your huge for you.
Thank me later.
Spot on observation , I look forward to the next Neo post almost as much as I do the next Shev post.
Damn you know what I have that You Tube vid in my faves
And heres a epic PvP Vid
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Congratulations, you've discovered the only superpower the gods have seen fit to grant me: guessing other people's youtube favorites.
^^ This has been the problem for a while now. New folks are eager to try pvp.
They do. Get destroyed by same ol' tierd build. Leave and don't come back.
But not only do they not come back to hero games/pvp, they now hate pvpers and condem it!
Now not everyone does this, but a lot do. Many of my pals formely of Coh sure do.
By not having power balance and people making builds with oped or broken powers, on top
of not much in the way of rewards, why would a person pvp?
To fight other builds just like them? It isn't enough. And players as well as the Devs have made this very clear by their actions...or lack of.
Its that simple.
Until the population of the Hero Games is increased, I do NOT support adding hero games content nor rewards.
C'mon Jaybezz, even Ryder's been commin out to play. Expecting the HG pop to dramatically change without incentive is saying you don't want pvp to populate if you can't have it your way.
I just did some bashes and a UTC earlier, it still pops, even without real rewards. It would pop more if people could find it rewarding to invest the time. If not for my previous pvp experience and extensive working knowledge of the game I'd never start pvping as there is no incentive other than pvp perks that are largely unobtainable in a reasonable amount of time.
When things were wrong they used to get dealt with one way or another, even if it took time. Now when there are issues with PvP I see less and less effort to correct them. It was a trend that took years to set in. Here's a small timeline: When Swallow Tail Cut was broke, it didn't take long to fix. Then we have holds like ego hold. hey got fixed even if it did take a couple trys. Then there was Enrage. Took some time for that to get nerfed, and it felt like forever. Bug fixes and balance issues seem to take longer and longer to happen. And now no matter how long I leave the game, when I come back nothing has happened to PvP.
I agree with Xeno that PvP is just getting pushed into oblivion. I don't know who to point the finger at but it is pretty obvious.
You cant blame the players for playing the only thing the game has to offer. And no single person is responsible for the state of PvP probably, but someone who gets paid by cryptic/PWE should do something for us, god knows how long some of us have been waiting.
No, your statement is not that simple, it's unrealistic.
PVP in every game from X-Box to PC, when have you ever got to sit there and choose your opponent?
And The population is so low because there is no incentive for people to want to PVP without questonite or gear to buy for questionite. Before the On-alert pass PVP was hugely popular with hero games popping constantly, even for PVE content (Zombie Apoc)
So why is pvp not popular, because of the dileberate efforts to make it unpopular by Crush and by leaving PVP out of the On-alert Pass.
It's that simple.
On Alert was never finished, it went out with not enough spit & polish. A lot of things were said in channels about what we were going to get and we didn't get a lot of them. It's been very obvious that GC does not like PvP and whether that had some effect on what's happened to PvP is unknown. Maybe yes, maybe no. We can't play the blame game because we don't know.
However, what can be said is that GC was the one who planned and laid out itemization and he was the one who executed it, so any fault with it lies with him.
@Lohr
You made a good argument without ranting like a Xenomorph version of Fox Freaking Mulder with 12 stacks of enrage and a can of red bull shoved up my tin foil covered ****.
BUT at the time Robobo was in charge of Champions Online and Crush was still sort of a newish guy he wouldnt have had the clout to sabotage PvP ( anyway no CO dev would want to intentionally break CO thats stupid talk). I cannot see how Crush is to blame in anyway. He had great ideas that he wasnt allowed to finish it seems.
All the evidence points to Crush having great ideas but getting pulled and put elsewhere to do other stuff .
If your gonna blame anyone blame Robobo he was the guy in charge the buck stops with him.
*edit* Just would like to add attacking devs is a great way to get PvP fixed. iSARCASM
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It will simply reward the 6 people who play BASH. Taking programming time to reward 6 players is a waste of resources that could be spent on things that affect the entire player-base.
When a new player goes into PvP and has a ****ty experience, they don't return. There is almost 0 chance to get into PvP as a new player.
I've taken my SG mates into PvP and we've had fun.. but it was mostly because we tried to fill the Queue with other players who were at our relative skill level (many of them brand new). The second one of "the PvPers" joined our Queue they started saying "I am never going to do that again"
Real experiences from real players are what affect the game population. And since we're never going to have balance in build making, we have to be able to CHOOSE balance in our match-ups.
Comparing CO-PvP to any other game is not a valid comparison. Many games have PvP in mind upon creation.. Champions Online would need to kill off all the OP builds in order to support Open Queue PvP. And I personally do not want them to spend the time and energy nerfing FoTMs when there is a much easier, quicker solution.
Then all the FoTM players can enjoy playing with each other, but I can still enjoy playing without them.
Sorry to burst your bubble hobbo but I played Bash for a bit last night and I would say I seen at least 30 people I have never met before and got my **** handed to me by at least 20 I knew of.
As I said to another person we know you cant just turn up and Bash sections of the community for no good reason and you were all happy we all did ( your greifing thread ) BUT that door swings both ways.
Saying only 6 people do Bash is BS.
Maybe if you stop attacking PvPers the PvPers might stop attacking you. You do that often you think dueling in ren cen is Greifing. I am a roleplayer and I get on just grand with the PvP lot.
*edit* Roleplayers with PvE builds that do a little Bash cannot expect to win against players that do nothing but PvP . Example I have a sorta FoTM PvP Build on Nepht but I dont expect to beat Malware or Xeno and I sure as hell wont cry cry about it when they hand me my ****.
Theres enough Infernos daft enough to do bash for us roleplayers to gank
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
MaHOOF wuts up man \o/
Theres no denying PvP is busted but Xeno is blaming the wrong guy.
At the time of On Alert Robobo was to blame and who ever is the head dev now is to blame for it not being fixed. Not Crush.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Not implementing what was promised is bad mojo. Somebody needs to address this thread is some form or another.
Yes, coming out and bad mouthing a person doesn't help, but the topic of removing pvp from the game seems more and more viable without some kind of response.
All this can be put to rest with some back and fourth. But silence will only confirm what Xeno fears most...death of pvp.
Ay gurl. And I did not know that. Well, now Robobo is just awful to me.
Nepht is defending someone whom has given her much of which she enjoys in CO. She is not a committed PVP'er, she likes to swing both ways. Which is cool. I like to see more players like her in PVP to be honest because her involvement and the involvement of others like her is what made PVP so awesome before the pass.. But while PVE is doing really good with a Dev Staff that is at the very least doing something for it. But the issues for PVP does belong on Crush. He was the flag holder for the "On-Alert Pass," that's a fact. It was advertised in the game as that fact. Hired for that fact and publicized by Crush himself to that fact. And another fact is, Crush openly stated on NUMEROUS occasions his contempt for PVP and the PVP community. IN GAME. Is it no wonder that the only aspect of the game and speaking in his numbers, 1% of the game doesn?t make it through the On-alert pass? Nept, I know you?re smarter than this. So too play devil's advocate, a full year later of begging to be included and not excluded and our threads are closed, moved and locked? All we are asking for is questionite instead of acclaim and a few measly pieces of gear on the vendors that gives us something to grind for. The very things you enjoy so much Nepht about PVE. Can we have a turn to now please? And since we've been in line for a year now can we please get someone to help us who does not hate us? I blame this perception in their attitude that we don't matter and I choose to not accept that. When I told Crush with the pvp community in his channel that his agenda was to leave PVP out of the On-Alert pass, he kicked me from the Channel. I leveled in the Hero games. I played against many of the People that are now considered Legends of PvP when they were just Level 10 and they ALL HATE my guys but even they will tell you I am telling the truth to you. .
-Xeno
-
how long have you been playing this game?
@Scrizz :biggrin:
Your missing my point.
Xeno most of what you said about Crush not being a fan of PvP is true but he's allowed his opinion of what play style he likes. I wouldnt say I was defending anyone my point is Crush is not a one man team , theres no way he could wreck PvP on purpose and to be honest I dont think he would want to anyway.
And way am I saying I am not defending anyone? Consider this.
One man couldnt wreck PvP. No what has happened is a team failure and a team failure is far far worse than one man messing up. The team dealing with PvP failed , the QA team failed and ultimately Robobo failed.
Now do you see my point.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
1. At the time when the On-Alert pass was implemented why was PVP the only aspect left
out?
-Xeno.
-
The problem is that the answer to the question you are asking is one you don't like.
A) Because PvPers are a marginal population (and it is, there's no justification otherwise, it's been officially stated, regardless of whether it's true or agreed upon, this is where we stand)
C) Therefore increased resources towards PvP is not something the cost-benefit analysts would suggest.
I understand that it would take very little to satisfy your needs, but that goes for many, many things in this game from the most basic unlocking of costume pieces in the character creator, or fixing the log in thing so my PWE name comes up instead of my Cryptic one despite me checking it off, up to and beyond targetting being crapnificent, because
D) Not changing it produces dramatically equal results as changing it, with the added bonus of not introducing the possibility of more bugs or unhappy players than there already are.
Now, maybe I'm completely wrong and this actually all is a personal vendetta against PvPers, in which case - now what? You continue to be ignored in public and mocked in private while your impotent rage serves as dramedy fuel for the masses?
Don't get me wrong, I love PvP in this game, and I think that the solutions put forth would go a long way towards something, however I don't think standing guns akimbo in the blue nowhere to fight for the rights of the metaverse is quite as effective as kissing someone's **** until they agree with you. Personally, I'm godawful at the latter, but if you really want change, maybe the white glove is a bit much.
Look!! We got Vehicles!!! That only took 3 years and everybody* wanted that ****.
*not really
We gonna have to agree to disagree on whos to blame who knows what really happened.
But you are wrong about PvP being left out with On Alert it wasn't left out it was sh@t upon.
PvP is the next thing that should be fixed on CO no matter who messed it up. Its a bad day when a freaking roleplayer is saying its out of order the way PvP has been treated.
*edit*
I am an open minded person and seeing that more than one person is saying they seen this happen (said people that dont get on backing each other up) I find this disturbing indeed. He should not have said he didnt give a damn about PvP he is a CO dev he should care about the whole game , but still it would take a team uneffort to wreck it so.
*double edit* Double reading Mr Forz's post it seems as a team they purposely messed up PvP
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
12/21/2012 is approaching.
Right I actually now think Xeno is right about this one a strong argument has been made.
Right to those devs that might be reading this READ THIS AND TAKE HEED!
Who is worth more as a customer we will take two examples.
Customer No 1: Nesno a long time monthly fee paying Gold Member who likes to PvP.
Customer No 2: My brother Gingervitus a long term no fee paying roleplayer with no toon over 20 and he only has 3.
Nesno is more likely to buy retcons, new travel powers and catalyst stuff while Ginger has only bought a few costume bits.
Nesno pays money each month. Ginger doesnt, I think he dropped $10 bucks into the game ONCE.
Gingervitus is a typical roleplayer he doesnt need new travel powers, he doesnt need freeform, he doesnt need catalysts, he doesnt need retcons. People like Nesno do.
I am in the Club Often and I am sorry if some people dont like this but most of the people there are under level 20 and havent paid a dime to the game. If die hard RP'ers dispute this I say to any random CO player walk into the club see for yourself.
Yes PvPers are a smaller community than us roleplayers but I would take a guess PvPers spend more in the cash shop. Its a bad idea for Devs to ***** upon them just because they personally dont like PvP or the PvP mentality . The Devs should get over it act professional and fix PvP .
Seriously this matters say a Dev appears that doesnt like Roleplay or PvE and starts to break those things what do you think would happen.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But that's a rabbit trail, and RPer vs. PVPer spending habits are irrelevant to the discussion, whih should center on the necessity of taking a few simple steps to restore PVP to its previous level. I would hope that the devs' ambitions for it would be even higher than that. Team duels are nice (if underutilized), but I'd love to see Free for All as well -- as a non-HG person, that would still be fun for casual play, especially if we can all gang up on Ryder.
1. Convert Questionite from Acclaim - Maybe three hours of work in code.
2. Copy a few pieces of gear from the Questionite Vendor and put them on the PVP Vendor.
Easy, but not being done because it was the intention all along to leave PVP out of the pass. Exactly as I said he would.
-Xeno
-
I'm a gold rper to and the comparisons matter when GMC says pvpers dont matter he compared PvPers to RPers and PvErs.
I could have used PvErs or people who use champions as a glorified PM service but I only used RP as an example , look at the points I made and say a new dev turns up and holds those preconceptions about RP and decides to destroy it in CO?
There would be a massive outrage.
PvPers are more likely to fling their money away in a bid to be better than the next guy. Roleplayers and PvErs not so much.
Also I stated that my post wasnt a PvP vs RP it was only an example. No matter what type of gamestyle you like they ALL should get equal footing dev wise and devs shouldnt say on channels these people dont matter.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Oh man, ignore all this broohaha and fix just this.....!
You would want to gang up on the squish rougeish guy wouldn't you -.O
(jk)
There are teams for every thing from powers, maps, interface, ETC... No one team or person can really be blamed for the downfall of a broad section called PvP.
BUT at the same time President Obama is only one person. His word and influence go a long way though. Crush might have that kind of role and if he was against PvP, that could have serious implications.
We should be looking for a solution, and pressing it into oblivion. Pointing fingers does nothing. We should be branching out into other forums, getting heard. Writing emails, posting on Facebook, etc... Because what ever has been done for the last year has obviously had no effect...
I like that post sir, ma'am, sir.. And i absolutely agree with you. Take my life if you wanna,
after reading such beautiful words written by such a strange person.. nothing else matters anymore.
For the first time ever : I do agree with you <-
-Xeno
What do you think CO? That's probably your entire subscription base in Gold Memberships.
We are not the 1%
-X
First time for everything, but other players from other playstyles should take heed if it could happen to PvP it could happen to the others.
This issue should concern all players no matter what they like doing.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Haven't done a lot of PvP, played around with it when it wasn't dead before On Alert. Know plenty of others who enjoyed it a lot more. I don't really like the current state of it at all, and agree something more should be done to throw PvP a bone, at least.
I don't see why it matters that they're 1% or 2%. They're a presence, a part of the community, and anyone who is part of a community is just as important as the next person. Marginalization of segments of a customer base may be a corporate principle, but since when do we look to corporations for principles? They are frequently wrong. Not the way to handle a small game, anyway. If you want to grow you have to build up what you have, and if you have a small segment of people who love something then you have something to grow.
So toss some seeds, down, devs, sprinkle some water, could go a longer way than you think.
Right, together we could actually achieve something.
I apologize once again, for having acted like a douchebag, sometimes i cannot control
my anger and other emotions too well. I acted like this, because i had gotten a little jealous over the almost 2 years playing co and the fact that the forums are available to silver players came in handy, since every update is/was/will be pve content i've gotten a little too upset. Ok the majority of people who got to read my ranting about senseless bs may already be thinking that i am quite retarded or a little shizophrenic.. but i guess it is the image that i have given to myself and have to live with it.
Have a nice day, love and peace to you all.
Indeed if we all say OI! with a big enough voice they might listen. It has worked in the past. The Russian and Chinese CO vets arnt going to get kicked from the game anymore and that was due to players saying it aint right to do so ( though they still havent got their forum voice back
Neo when I first posted here I was the biggest douche ever , some still think I'm still a big douche. Better to be a vocal douche than a silent saint.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I am the 99%
Pve is nothing more than farming for costume unlocks or questionite once you hit 40.
Pvp is on life support and is effectively dead in comparison to pre-alert.